Debate:Are there any elements of choice, when it comes to carrying out homosexual acts?

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Are homosexuals "born that way"? Would it outrage their personhood to suppress the desire to fornicate with a member of the same sex?

Contents

Yes

"Are homosexuals "born that way"?"

I think the science is not all in on that one. All I do know is that many of them have known they were "different" from a very young age.

"Would it outrage their personhood to suppress the desire to fornicate with a member of the same sex?"

What a sick, controlling question. I know it would outrage my personhood to suppress any desire I hold because someone else finds it abominable or disgusting. As it should, indeed, outrage theirs if I were to expect them to suppress a desire that I think is wrong somehow. Although, now that I think about it, why shouldn't all warmaking people suppress that desire? A bit off topic there. Anyway, yes, I'm certain that it would be a cruel outrage for expect or force someone else to suppress their desires where they do not affect you personally. Human 21:22, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Yes, there are elements of choice, when it comes to carrying out homosexual acts. This question is more of a free will versus determinism question than about the science behind homosexuality. People have the choice in whether or not they have a relationship with a person of the same sex. I believe that we have the free will in what we do and so homosexuals have the choice of not committing those sinful acts. --AdrianP 21:39, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Those that think the acts are "sinful" can make that choice, yes. Those that don't are free to act in a way that increases their happiness. Human 22:14, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
There are elements of choice in heterosexuality, too. When you have sex with someone, anyone, it is (generally) a choice. But you can not choose who you desire. ChrisQ

yes, there is the same way there are elements of choice when it comes to carrying out heterosexual acts, is there a element of choice to being homosexual no-Greenmeanie 01:05, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

Yea but it's so hard not to do itRebiu 23:17, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

Could someone from the 'No' side be so good as to give physical data/proof from an NPOV-based source proving that Homosexuality as a whole is based on choice alone and in no way is received at birth?--TomRobinson 13:47, 7 June 2010 (EDT)

No

I believe that there are elements of choice, when it comes to carrying out homosexual acts. Homosexuals are not "born that way", and it would not outrage their personhood to suppress the desire to fornicate with a member of the same sex. --Ed Poor 18:46, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Answered below.-AmesGyo! 22:34, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Homosexuality is a choice. It definitely isn't something that is programmed into your genes. I was told to compare it to drug addiction. Drug addicts are never "born that way". However, once the choice is made (to do drugs, or engage in homosexual acts) the addicted rarely want to break the cycle. Sometimes the addicted can't pinpoint the exact moment the choice is made or blow off their actions as "just nothing" (Such as smoking a marijuanna cigarette or making out with another boy.) It is a slippery slope once the abuse begins. These addictions can be overcome though, but it is never easy. One must dedicate themselves to the rehabilitation process and truly give themselves to Jesus. That way, and that way alone is the way to overcome the Homosexual addiction. -- Jose83

Out of curiosity, do you believe - following the drug addict analogy - that almost anyone could potentially become "addicted" to homosexuality? I was never quite clear what the supposed stance on vulnerability to homosexuality was... Feebasfactor 16:55, 28 December 2007 (EST)
Oh, and I thought this might be an interesting contribution to the debate: Scientists Make Fruit Flies Gay, Then Straight Again. Feebasfactor 16:57, 28 December 2007 (EST)
As far as vulnerability goes, it depends on the person, their mental strength and the environment they grow up in. Some people might be coaxed into homosexual acts because it's the "cool" thing to do, especially since Hollywood appears to be fixated on glamorizing the homosexual lifestyle. Children raised in a secular environment, or by same-sex parents are more likely to become homosexuals because the temptation is always there (Just like how a child raised by drug-addicts is more likely to become a drug addict themselves because there are constantly drugs in the household.) However, children raised in a traditional family that attends a Christian church regularly is far less likely to become a homosexual because the behavior is discouraged and there is little or no temptation. Individuals need a considerably larger amount of mental strength in a secular environment to resist homosexuality than they would need in an environment that embraces Jesus. -- Jose83
I wouldn't be so sure. It's not necessarily all about temptation. Children of homosexuals are not always homosexuals, and homosexuality occurs in families who have no history of it. And continuing, when the hell was homosexuality "cool" in any way?!?? It's always been queer this, sissy this, fag that. Schoolboys have always tried to defend their masculinity. Oh, and I don't know how you can tie secularism to homosexuality, either. ChrisQ 20:12, 5 March 2008 (EST)
So does that mean the apparent "sexual orientation" of homosexuals is merely the expression of the individual experiencing that temptation? Feebasfactor 17:53, 28 December 2007 (EST)
Feebasfactor, your article hardly proves anything. Fruit fly behavior is much simpler than that of humans and is entirely based on genetic teachings. Human behavior is much more complex and more learned. I do not believe, however, that being gay is a choice in anyway. I am gay and I certainly did not make that choice. Have you ever noticed that almost every gay person says that it is NOT a choice? Why is it that the beliefs of straight people always overrule ours, when they have no experience in the matter? Those "gone straight" bible stories are people just denying who they are because they can't handle the social stigma or have some hell and brimstone complex. I have known people who have tried that, it never worked for them. It is, however, their choice if they want to put themselves through the emotional pain of these "programs." Some people can't handle it, and I respect that, however, I think in the end they are just harming themselves more. Kiss20 13:48, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Maybe

I think there is a division of homosexuality. I think that some people during their youth are sexually confused by hormones, and they engage is sexual acts that they otherwise wouldn't. I have a friend who is straight as can be, but he's had homosexual sex before, as a teen, and regrets it, because he was not homosexual. Also, I don't believe in "Bisexuality." I can give that people can be attracted to the opposite sex, but I don't think that you can be attracted to both. I think bisexually is just a lack of CARING about what you have sex with, so long as you are having sex.

Now, I am a strong believer in gay rights and I believe that at least some gays are in some way a natural occurrence. I have many gay friends and am a member of our school's LGBTS alliance. I have meet many single sex couples, including a pair of lesbians partners who are currently raising a daughter that is more well behaved than most straight raised couples and she is heterosexual to boot.--Elamdri 18:49, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

How can bisexuality be a lack of caring? I am bisexual, and besides the fact that I am not legally old enough to have sex, there are plenty of people with whom I simply would not want to do so.--Άθεος 20:18, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
I just don't think you can be both. I think you can be either one or the other. Being bisexual means that you don't care whether or not you are having sex with a man or a woman. Also, if you are not legally old enough to have sex (No such thing btw, sex isn't illegal) then you may not be bisexual. You might be hormonally confused. It happens. But anyway, I just don't think bisexuality is a valid sexual identity. I think its more like you just want to have sex, and its really irrelevant what you are having sex with. I mean, feel free to think me wrong. It just what I personally feel. You can either be gay or straight, but both is pushing it.--Elamdri 22:16, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
I like apples. I also like oranges. It's not that I don't care what I'm eating - I just enjoy the specific qualities of each, and sometimes prefer one over another. Is this such an unreasonable position? Underscoreb 23:43, 5 March 2008 (EST)
How about being neither? ChrisQ 20:14, 5 March 2008 (EST)

The Obvious Arguments

People have said repeatedly that homosexuality is not "inborn" - rather, it appears at a very early age, such that people don't remember it, so they think it's inborn, but it's not. The question is, how does this matter? If the change is subtle, at a young age, and permanent, how is it any different from being "inborn" in the respect it deserves? The trait is still immutable, and discrimination based on immutable traits is flat-out bigotry (racism, sexism). So, does it matter if the trait is inborn, if it can be proved to be acquired early on, as Ed has argued?

Second, the argument is that homosexuals do not have to be "practicing" homosexuals - they can abstain. The request, then, is for homosexuals to live a sex-less life. Hands up who's male, straight, and adult here (*hand up*). Hands up who'd be mad as anything if they couldn't have sex ever again (*hand up*). Now impute that same prospective frustration onto homosexuals. Can you deny someone, even someone with whom you disagree, someone who you think is a sinner, the basic right of expression & love that sexual intimacy is? Plenty of people do voluntarily - but that's entered into voluntarily, not by forcible compulsion.

A closing thought: if it disgusts you, so be it; don't do it. If you think it'll condemn gays to Hell, so be it; according to fundamentalist Christianity, all Muslims & Jews are going to hell anyways, and you seem capable of getting along with them. Ed, maybe "evil" doesn't deserve your acceptance, but you "accept" evil all the time in the form of different religions. The point is that it doesn't hurt anyone to be accepting of a right that infringes upon none of yours.-AmesGyo! 22:34, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Very eloquent: "You should be a lawyer." --Ed Poor 22:43, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
Thanks Ed! I try. I've just seen too many good people go through pain & trauma because they've been needlessly ostracized for their sexual orientation.-AmesGyo! 22:47, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
As Ed said, very eloquent. I agree completely; this equivocation is ridiculous. Underscoreb 00:23, 8 November 2007 (EST)
Hey, I didn't say "correct", I just said "eloquent". ;-)
Yeah, but in the legal world, you don't have to be correct to be right.--Elamdri 01:48, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
"if it disgusts you"... The thought of many, many people fornicating/consummating their marriage disgusts me. But, it is none of my business who they choose to do it with. And none of yours, either. Human 00:37, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Does It Matter?

Regardless of whether homosexuality is genetically determined or a personal choice, that doesn't necessarily make it wrong. It's a no-brainer, guys. Underscoreb 00:23, 8 November 2007 (EST)

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