Debate:Is there 1 God or are there many gods?
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Yes. Maestro 00:30, 16 February 2008 (EST)
According to the Bible there's one. - Ultimahero. March 8, 2008.
What about Deuteronomy 6:14 "You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you" ? Is this an admission that other gods exist and a warning not to worship them. Is there a Bible passage where God says there ARE no other gods , only him . ?
- Yes, there are several Biblical passages that detail that God is the only God. Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 44:6-8, Isaiah 45:5, Isaiah 45:14&18, Isaiah 45:21-22, Isaiah 46:9, John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, Galatians 4:8-9. There's more, but that should suffice to prove that the Bible is Monotheistic. Ultimahero 15:31, 18 October 2008 (EDT)
How do Christians reconcile the fact that only one region of the world has any beliefs similar to those described in the old testament if there was such a small human population after the flood. There for every human civilization should have some story of the flood or ark, a very similar god, and similar languages. But this is not true. I would like to hear what other people think? Rellik 23:36, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
There actually are several different stories of a "great flood" from many cultures around the world. As far as different languages, the Bible addressed this at the Tower of Babel. Everyone spoke the same language, yet God scrambled their languages so they couldn’t understand one another. And as far as different gods and religions go, I don’t think it would actually take that long to spread and differ. For example, in the US in the 1800’s, the majority of people were Christians. Yet then along comes Joseph Smith and before long he has taken on a bunch of followers into the new Mormon church. Now, only about 150 years later, Mormonism is pretty big. Just imagine that, only lots of people trying to come up with new theological systems. You could have tons of them in a relatively short time frame. Ultimahero
I can only think of one religion besides from christianity that mentions a great flood, and that is the Mayan creation myth. They believed they were the third race created by their gods with the first being made of mud and then being destroyed by a flood, the next being made of wood and an attempt was made to destroy them with another flood, but they lived and became monkeys. Not much similarity to the story of the ark. What other cultures have a story of a flood? Rellik 23:40, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
- The Babylonians have the story of Upnapishtim from the Epic of Gilgamesh; the Greeks have Deucalion. There are possibly many more cultures that do. Karajou 23:43, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
There’s the Sumerians, Babylonians, Chinese, Indians, Indonesia, Greek, and many others that have flood stories. Ultimahero.
I've been reading up on the Tower of Babel, and I can't tell does it deal with the differences in races too or simply language? Rellik 20:06, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Judging by the text, I'd say it's just language. God mixed up their languages, but it doesn't say anything about race. The number of different races is probably just a natural biological occurrence. Ultimahero, March 20
How do we know there is even one God? May you please provide proof?-Gabriel131.
What I originally wrote was that according to the Bible there's one God. Ultimahero 16:37, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
The proof for God is the existence of logical absolutes. Logic is governed by absolute laws, much in the same way that the physical world is governed by scientific laws. An example of a law of logic would be the ‘Law of Identity’. This laws states that something is what it is and is not what it’s not. Ex: A tree is a tree; a tree is not a cat. This law, among others, govern how logic works.
By nature, these laws are absolute. They are true regardless of whether or not people agree with them or not. They also transcend space and time. This means that no matter where you truth is still truth. For example, 2+2 is true here, it is true if you go 100 miles away, 1,000 miles away, to the edge f the universe, etc. No matter where you go, it’s still true. And it’s true whenever you are. Regardless of how far back in time you go or how far into the future you go, 2+2 is still a true concept. So the laws of logic are absolute. This also means that the laws of logic are independent of the physical universe. Where and when doesn’t affect logic. In fact, even if the universe ceased to be, 2+2 would still be true.
Secondly, the laws of logic are conceptual by nature. Logic only occurs in the mind. You can’t see logic, touch it, find it under a rock, etc. They aren’t physical items. They only exist in the mind and require a mind to exist. But, they aren’t dependent on human minds, because human minds are different and if that would mean that logic would be different for each person, which it is not.
So, we conclude that logic is absolute, transcendent, conceptual, and independent of human minds and the physical universe. So, how do you account for this? As a Christian, I can say that God is the answer, because He fits all these attributes. He is absolute (unchanging), He transcends all of space and time, has a mind, and is independent of humanity and the universe. I can account for it, but it’s not possible to do so without God. That is the proof for God. BillyJ 01:32, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
- Why would a God be limited by something as puny as LOGIC? Even humans ignore logic 90% of the time.
- And observing the physical universe, I'd say that given the basic assumption of deific creation, the available evidence rather strongly supports the notion of a committee of bickering entities having been to blame, rather than one allegedly omnibenevolent God with humanity's best interests at heart.
- And as a SubGenius Discordian Fusion Paranoid(tm) who's also a roleplayer, I MAKE UP more deities in one day than most people will worship in their entire lifetime. :)
- Do You Believe That? --Gulik5 01:48, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
Who said God was limited by logic? God is logical. It's one of His attributes. Since God is perfect, He is perfectly logical. You said humans ignore logic 90% of the time. That's because they're not perfect and can be illogical. Only a being that could think perfectly and knew all could be perfectly logical. And logic is consitent through and through. I used the example of the Law of Identity, which is a law that is true always. That supports one God, because it's as though it's been authored by a single mind. If there were a committee of Gods, then the laws of logic would change from time to time and place to place. But they don't. And my point was the logic's existence points to God. If you disagree, then explain the existence of logic without God. BillyJ 01:57, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
- Humans want the universe to make sense, but the universe is no more sensical than it is hot or cold--PARTS of it might be, but not the whole. --Gulik5 14:13, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
That doesn't address the point. Logic exists and there is no question about it. So, how do you account for logical laws which are absolute, transcendent, conceptual, and independent of humanity and the physical universe? As a Christian, I can do that with God because He perfectly fits all of these categories. But how does an Atheist do so? If you can account for it, then please do. Ultimahero 14:30, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
- You keep saying that, but that doesn't make it so. If a truly omnipotent diety wanted to make a rock so big It couldn't lift it, it could--and could then LIFT IT ANYWAY. That's what omnipotence' MEANS. --Gulik5 20:43, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
No, that's a logical fallacy. Something can only do that which is consitent with it's nature. God is by nature and definition the biggest thing in existence. To ask Him to make something bigger than He is, which would make Him something lesser than something else, is illogical. God can't contradict His own nature. And you still haven't accounted for the existence of logic. If I'm wrong about logic or one of it's characteristics, then show me where. Ultimahero 23:29, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
- Do you know what Godel's Incompleteness Theorem is? --Gulik5 23:34, 1 May 2008 (EDT)
No, I can't say that I've heard of it before. Ultimahero 02:05, 2 May 2008 (EDT)
- ultimahero, god isn't the biggest thing in existence, because im pretty sure that he can control his size, and he could make a rock so big that he couldn't lift it, just like he could make a square circle (he created the concept of a circular circle so he could make a square one). and ultimahero, saying that god transcends all physical laws is true if you believe in him, but that means that there is no proof whatsoever otherwise (and could you give me a few logical examples), and account for YOUR god being true, not some other one
- Let’s clarify this right now: I’m a Christian. Therefore, I am going to argue in favor of the Christian God of the Bible, according to Christian definitions. So, from a Christian definition, yes, God is the biggest thing in existence. He is omnipresent, meaning that He is everywhere all at once. Also, the Bible teaches that God doesn’t change. So, if God stops being omnipresent, then He has changed, hasn’t He? So that can’t be, because that would go against what Scriptures teaches. The Biblical God can’t change and therefore must constantly be the biggest thing in the universe.
- Now, a rock is something that is a physical object. And a physical object is limited in size. It has a set amount of mass, density, etc. So how can God (who is infinite) make a rock (which is finite) into something bigger than that which is infinite? If it becomes infinite, then by definition it is no longer a rock. So it’s not possible because it is a non-sequitur. It isn’t logical.
- Now, one might say that God is capable of being illogical, or perhaps changing logic, but that’s not true. God can’t be illogical. God can only do those things which are consistent with His nature. This is important. God can only do that which is consistent with His nature. For example, God is holy. Therefore, God Can’t sin, because that would violate His holy character. At the same time, God is logical. So, because He is logical, He can’t be illogical, because it would violate His nature. God did not invent logic. Logic exists because God exists. It is part of His nature, so it necessarily exists because He does. It the same in that I wouldn’t say that God invented love, mercy, righteousness, etc. To say that He invented those things would be to say that there was a time when those things didn’t exist. Also, that would mean that God changed His character to adopt those attributes into Himself. But, as I already pointed out, God doesn’t change. So, just like love, holiness and these other things exist because God exists, logic exists in the same way. It is part of Him. So, because He can’t change, He can’t do illogical things that violate His character. Therefore, He can’t make a rock so big because He can’t lift it due to it’s illogicality.
- At that same point, God Can’t make squares circles because that violates logic. The First Law of Logic says that something is what is and is not what it’s not. For example, a tree is a tree. It’s not a car. Something is what it is and is not what it’s not. So, a circle is a circle, it’s not a square. And a square is a square, it’s not a circle. To make something what it’s not is a violation of this first law and therefore illogical. So it can’t be done.
- As far as evidence goes, I could point of fulfilled prophecy in Scripture, or the strong validity of the Gospels and the resurrection account of Christ, or I could get into the a proof which involves the existence of logic itself. Although, I would have to ask what you would accept as evidence. Your presuppositions might make so that you can’t accept God anyways, because you automatically reject God by default. (For example, if you reject the miraculous, then you can’t accept Christianity by default because it hinges on the miraculous resurrection of Christ.) So what would you accept? Ultimahero 01:26, 3 June 2008 (EDT)