Debate:Why are there so few homosexual athletes

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Debate question: Why are there so few homosexual athletes, especially in the United States?

To me this seems to be a very strange phenomenon, since the homosexual agenda would have you believe that homosexuals are present everywhere. Yet in sports they seem to be lacking. I think there's a few reasons. First off, in sports, you have to be strong-willed to succeed, yet homosexuals were weak-willed enough to succumb to their temptations. Secondly, sports help reaffirm the young athletes with people of the same gender. Boys unconsciously observe how other boys act and model their behavior on this; the same with girls. This is one of the reasons Dr. James Dobson encourages parents to have their children play sports -- it helps discourage the gender dissociation which is one of the causes of homosexuality.[1] In that vein, it's not surprising that the majority of homosexuals in sports come from individual sports, such as tennis, golf, figure skating or diving. In team sports, the players have to be like-minded with the others to form an effective team, so if one of them is having distracting thoughts, the whole team suffers. The homosexuals become a liability for teamwork and either must adopt a straight lifestyle or leave the sport. This is why there are so few homosexual athletes. Opinions welcome. -Foxtrot 19:13, 3 November 2008 (EST)

I know professional athletes tend to not be gay, but I'm not sure the trend extends to amateur athletes. When I was in high school, nearly a third of our football team was openly gay. Maybe the drive needed to become a professional athlete is not common in many homosexuals, but because amateur sports require less drive, their weak will is successfully hidden? TGeary 19:20, 3 November 2008 (EST)

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I just want to place when you were in high school - recently, last decade, older? -Foxtrot 19:40, 3 November 2008 (EST)
This was three years ago, in a school in southern California. TGeary 19:59, 3 November 2008 (EST)
I figured you were young, because I would have never heard of such a figure in my day (and I'm not all that much older than you -- amazing what difference a decade makes!). A figure like this is what I was afraid of. Score one for the homosexual agenda. It seems the youth of southern California are in their hands. One third?!?! That figure is staggering -- it's more than even the homosexual mouthpieces would give themselves credit for (they generally think they're 10% of the population). It's shocking that our schools are becoming so overrun with immorality. I'm glad you seem to have made it out of there okay, TGeary, but I must confess this news saddens me greatly. -Foxtrot 22:18, 3 November 2008 (EST)
It was really pretty sad. I am hopeful that the professional sports culture successfully resists such a trend in the coming years and decades. TGeary 22:42, 3 November 2008 (EST)

Maybe the sports world environment is more hostile to gay people? That would both discourage gay people from entering the sports world and make any gay people in the sports world less likely to be public about it. LiamG 19:41, 3 November 2008 (EST)

I hear that argument a lot, but I don't buy it. How is the sports world more hostileto gay people than the business world or the military? We wouldn't have Don't Ask Don't Tell if there weren't a sizeable minority of homosexuals in the military. But in sports no one's suggesting Don't Ask Just Play, simply because the homosexuals aren't there to demand it. -Foxtrot 19:47, 3 November 2008 (EST)
Foxtrot, did you participate in any sports in junior high or high school? I ask because I went out for several sports in the 1980's, and it seems hard for me to believe that someone who did would have to ask whether such an environment is (or at least was) hostile to gays. It was an absurdly hypermasculine environment and flagrantly hostile to homosexuality. All the athletes were 'motivated' with being called antigay slurs for any perceived deficit in performance. How many laps have you run with a coach calling you a bunch of XXXs? How many times have you been berated for not beating those XXX from the other school? How often have you XXXs had to do extra wind sprints? Hit harder, you XXX! Stop XXX XXX XXX and hustle! If you were the only Christian on a team of Muslims that constantly used anti-Christian slurs, how long would you stick with the sport? Would you openly declare yourself Christian and risk ostracism or physical abuse? Could you keep it up for the ten or more years needed to make it to the major leagues of your chosen sport? Especially when it's so easy for a coach to put someone else on the field when the scouts are in the stands?
Maybe things are different in school sports now; I certainly hope so. Still, it would take years for changes in the entry-level sports culture to trickle up to the high-level sports culture - especially since changes have to come from coaches who came up in the traditional system.--Brossa 20:22, 3 November 2008 (EST)
I played some tennis in high school, but never made it to varsity. I'll admit there were several jibes calling some guys pansies, etc. but no more than calling someone a weakling, klutz, idiot or any other number of insults from frustration. In a competitive environment, these jibes are motivation for the person with the flawed performance to improve himself. If he doesn't, then it is his failure. A high school team (and more so a professional team) wants the best players, so the ones which drag upon the team are the ones which get cut. I did, and while it was a disappointment that I wasn't a Pete Sampras, I learned to focus on my other gifts, like mathematics. I still play tennis as a hobby, by the way.
Back to the point: if a student receives these jibes, it's usually a reflection of his performance. If there was a star quarterback who was gay, the jibes wouldn't happen because he's excelled and met or exceeded expectations. However, this doesn't happen, because it seems that homosexuals generally do not seem to excel in sports. I doubt that once Martina Navratilova aced past her opponents on the court there were still insults being thrown about how her lesbianism effects her play.
The comparison to Christian/Muslim slurs is misguided. Those are insults about someone's beliefs, which have nothing to do with their performance on field, court, pool, etc. A homosexual might become attracted to his opponents or teammates, and that could have a profound effect on the game. In contrast, a Christian isn't going to throw the game because he wants to pray with one of his teammates (sorry for the inappropriate parallel that sets up). It's just a different ballpark. -Foxtrot 22:50, 3 November 2008 (EST)
You appear to have entirely missed my point. Why would anyone want to participate in an activity in which they were only referred to in demeaning and offensive terms - if indeed something about them was used as the default insult? The point is not that athletes are berated for poor performance; it's that the berating almost always takes (took?) the form of antigay slurs. If nobody knows that you're gay, does that make it less insulting, or frightening? If you're the star player, is it less offensive because some other player gets the demeaning label? It may not be enough to say "oh, never mind what I called him, you're one of the good ones." The Christian/Muslim analogy is entirely appropriate: how many Christians would make it to major league sports if they had to run a ten year gauntlet of a very hostile Jihadist environment? Wouldn't the Jihadists wonder why Christians were such poor athletes, as evidenced by the lack of openly practicing Christians in professional sports?
As for whether a homosexual athlete might be attracted to a teammate or opponent - so? A straight athlete can hate a particular teammate or prefer a particular opponent; they can play favorites; athletes change teams and have divided loyalties; best friends have petty arguments; ballhogs are resented by others; teammates compete amongst themselves for playing time, etc. The interpersonal dynamics of team sports are highly complex and ever-changing. If a teammate hits on me, is that worse than if he assaults my sister? Or sabotages my equipment? Or gets MVP instead of me?--Brossa 23:56, 3 November 2008 (EST)
Yet, military service requires the same things cited above (strong will, teamwork). BHarlan 19:58, 3 November 2008 (EST)
And when the military tried to throw them out because of their disruptions to morale (and worse), they had the PC left wing breathing down their backs. There have been no studies showing homosexuals make a stronger military unit, and with the PC stranglehold, it's doubtful any such studies would see the light of day. They're hiding the clear results, which only a few politicians are willing to mention and fight against for the strength of our military. Many homosexuals join the military not out of a strong will, but out of a fantasy of being near many men in close quarters and this mentality is not conducive to teamwork. BHarlan, for a simple comparison--imagine if a homosexual coworker expressed his interest in you. I'm sure that afterwards there would be an extremely awkward atmosphere at work. Now imagine if concentration on your work had your and others' lives depending on it. Is that the clarity and focus that makes for a good team?-Foxtrot 22:26, 3 November 2008 (EST)
You misunderstand me terribly. You claim there is a "sizeable [sic] minority of homosexuals in the military". If that is so, the mystery is why it is not so in sports when military service and team sports require some of the same virtues.
It seems your explanation of this is that the military is a job and has cramped quarters. Only the former applies to professional sports, I suppose. BHarlan 07:47, 4 November 2008 (EST)
Hmm well consider the percentages, only a very small percentage of people are homosexual and out of that even less would even consider becoming a proffesional athelete. I just think that maybe a lot of atheletes are scared to come out about their sexuality because of the reasons that foxtrot quoted up above, because sport is seen as very gender oriented, they're intimidated into not breaking the mold. Just a thought. --Bolly 19:54, 3 November 2008 (EST)
I am taking into account the proportions, but it still doesn't make sense. Sports are something they are exposed to from a young age, and are a clear option for a career path. You'd expect they'd be inclined to follow that path as much as they are inclined to be actors, or dentists, or lawyers. It's not like I'm questioning the paucity of homosexuals in some obscure field like ceramics engineering (though the gays supposedly like pottery...) -Foxtrot 22:55, 3 November 2008 (EST)
You have kind of a weird view of gay people. Anyway, I just wanted to point out that sports are really not a clear option for a career path for most people, and kids are made aware of that, just as being a famous actor or musician is known to be highly unlikely. Additionally, yes, it's very common to throw around gay slurs at other people (even the word "gay" has become slang for bad). It's become a way of questioning masculinity, which males are likely to react negatively to, which is the point of calling someone a name in the first place (getting someone to improve themselves is a pretty weak excuse for out-and-out insulting them). Being gay is obviously still not an accepted thing, as you've demonstrated, so if a star quarterback were gay, do you really think he wouldn't get flack for it? LiamG 23:21, 3 November 2008 (EST)

There is an interesting series on espn.com about this.

http://espn.go.com/otl/world/timeline.html

MikeAndrews 15:11, 19 January 2009 (EST)

This is a stupid discussion. It's because many athletes need endorsements, and pro athletes don't want to get kicked out of the sport. Look at Australian gold medalist Matthew Mitcham. Gold Medalsit, but no endorsements. It's clearly homophobia in society. Also, the Canadian Forces has lots of gays, including me. And there's no problem with unit cohesion. Conservapedia makes God cry. --Hitchens 19:10, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Great answer. There aren't 'few' homosexual atheletes, they're just afraid of the bigotry they'd face. TimR 23:14, 9 May 2009 (EDT)

By bigotry you must mean defending young children from mongering menacing freaks. What is this? Why would America endorse an Australia Athelete in the first place? THis prospect is insulting to Human Intellegence, which is created by God. You need strong Biblical education, both of you. It is somewhat humurous for Hitchens to reference God crying over an website, The Fool says in his heart there is no God. You both match the Biblical definition of fools, consult a Bible to prove my point, THanks! Veritas vos Liberabit. (Baronvonbob 21:28, 26 September 2009 (EDT))

The reason there are no homosexual atheletes is quite simple. Playing sports requires Machismo which homosuxuals lack, much like Richard Dawkins. If you wan't to see homosexuals in sports watch soccer, where I am sure there is an abundance. I'm 90% certain Richard Dawkins played soccer in high school--SayidR 21:50, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

Those individuals lacking machismo usually are metrosexual. --Jpatt 22:00, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

metrosexuals are unfortunate victims of the homosexual agenda. they help glorify it and try and make it acceptable--SayidR 23:09, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

For the moment let's ignore the debatable differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals and look at simply statistics. There are simply fewer people in the United States who identify as being gay or lesbian. Therefore, the already small amount of the population who play sports professionally (e.g. in the NFL, NBA etc...) will have very few people who think of themselves as homosexuals. And then if we consider the stigma that comes with being homosexual or bisexual then it becomes likely that anyone who was gay and active in professional sports would want to keep it hidden.


One question: The few gays I've met are quite effeminite, and they are shown in society as being like that (so presumably most are). Could it be that they are less interested in sports than heterosexual guys? And women participate in sport less than men do, so wouldn't effeminite men also participate less? (This is assuming that most gays in sport are openly gay, which I think is unlikely.) - JamesCA

Are there so few homosexual athletes, or so few OPENLY homosexual athletes? Charles Barkley recently said he played with multiple gay athletes during his career. But there has only been one openly gay NBA player in history and that was John Amaechi. And Barkely never played with Amaechi. So in all likelihood some of Barkely's teammates came out to the team but not to the public, and thus we wouldn't know about it. Plus there may have been (almost certainly were) others who we don't know about nor did their teammates. As for why a lower percentage of homosexual athletes are openly so than the general public, most likely it is because sports is a profession associated with being "manly" which is a trait we commonly assume homosexuals do not possess. Which means an openly gay athlete would be seen as "unmanly" (whether this is true or not is irrelevant) if he came out publicly, and it could potentially end his playing career. In fact, if I recall correctly, the first athlete who was openly gay during his playing career didn't happen until a few years ago when a Welsh rugby player came out. (And let me tell you, rugby players are among the most manly of all athletes). And of course, there was the transgender woman (who identified as a man but was biologically a woman and thus played with them) on the George Washington U basketball team this past year but (s)he left after the season. And there's a lot of negative sterotyping in women's basketball where people assume that successful female athletes ARE homosexual, rather than in men's sports where we assume the opposite. Gregkochuconn 16:29, 5 June 2011 (EDT)

It is true there are not al lot of homosexual male athletes. especially nit in team sports. However there are some exeptions like soccerplayer David Testo. As metioned above there are much more individuel athletes. Swimmer Johan Kenkhuis (silver Olympic medal), Mark Tewksbury (golden medal), Uriël Taken, Jeffrey Wammes. Cyclofile 14:05, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

Well, homosexuals are more likely to be atheists and atheists are more likely to be fat, as explained by the article on atheism on this site. Just go to the article on atheism and check, I think it's there. Anyway, if more gay people are atheists and more atheists are fat, then that could be a reason for it. -Jand-

Western atheists sumo wrestling - survival of the fattest? Conservative 00:27, 14 June 2013 (EDT)

References

  1. Bringing Up Boys, Dr. James C. Dobson. Tyndale House Publishers, 2005.
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