Debate: Does Harry Potter promote Satanic witchcraft?

From Conservapedia

yes JK Rowlong is definetely a Witchcraft it's what Satan wants her to do and make the world love Evil instead of Jesus

I disagree. JK RowLong is probably not a Witchcraft. Sideways 13:19, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

She's an author. She writes books. I have NEVER met, seen on television or talked to anyone who linked her works to satanism or witchcraft. Get a grip. Darkmind1970 11:37, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Move this to debate section! And yes, but not intentionally. NewCrusader 12:04, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Shouldn't this discussion be on the talk page?--CPalmer 12:19, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

This is a debate page, so... no idea. NewCrusader 13:43, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

yes

I believe impressionable children might grow to like witches from reading the Harry Potter books. When I read the Sorcerer's Stone I felt it made regular people look like stupid, prigish brats, while the wizards and their lot were portrayed as good, wise, kind, gracious, and joyful. Just in general, I mean. I know there was a good witch and a bad witch, but for the most part, those with magic powers seemed more moral than those without.

But whats wrong, one might ask, with a couple good witchs? Its not neccessarily Satanic, right? Is witchcraft inherently wicked? I believe it is, (the Bible sayes so), but thats really beside the point. Any book promoting witches or witchcraft as acceptable is a dangerous book. If kids think it's ok to be a wizard, as long as they do good with their powers, then the occult will become much more popular.

Hold it here, you say. Magic isn't real, thats only fantasy. No. Satan gives real people real power to do real scary wonders. Ever been to Papua New Guinea? There are voodoos and witch doctors who can fly. The Duids used to to some freaky tricks. Kids might think its fun and harmless, but once they start messing around in that stuff only the Grace of God can get them out. If they get "power" before they commit suicide, or get sacrificed to Satan, I wonder how much "good" they'll do with the power. --Ṣ₮ёVeN 13:33, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." —Revelation 21:8.

"Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them." - Leviticus 19:31

"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them." - Leviticus 20:27

God appears to be quite disapproving of wizardry. NewCrusader 13:43, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

Yes, of course he does. I didn't say God doesn't disapprove, I said it was beside the point. Not everyone on this site believes the Bible so I wanted to try and use an argument they could agree with, in case they would not listen to me simply because what I said was based on scripture.--Ṣ₮ёVeN 13:54, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

No

The idea is ridiculous. The Harry Potter books are just some of the latest in a long tradition of fiction regarding magic and sorcery, including such authoras as Tolkien, Dunsany, the Brothers Grimm and even Shakespeare (e.g. The Tempest). These authors are not accused of promoting the occult, but for some reason such allegations are regularly thrown at J.K. Rowling. The spells portrayed in her books are explicitly fictional, and at no point does she incite readers to attempt any kind of spell-casting themselves. Sideways 14:01, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

The Harry Potter books make it very clear that the wizardry they use is a inborn ability and not something from dealing with demons, or fairies or anything else. Many of the spell words used are simply bad puns. Tolkein was much worse since the white and grey wizards were actual a sort of Angel, but that was only revealed if you read the books that explained his mythology. Markr 14:13, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

I would like to note that I am a Harry Potter fan who owns all the books, saw all the movies, etc. I am also a fairly devout Catholic. So, am I violating my faith every time I pick up "Goblet of Fire"? Of course not. The books definitly promote good morals and values, although they are presented in a fantasy setting so as to be accessable to people of any faith(if that makes any sense). None of my friends think that they can fly around or shoot jets of green light out of twigs. Yes, Satan is out there, and yes, he does have certain melevolent powers, but I believe that as long as you have faith in God, you have nothing to fear. So, let your children read HP, but make sure that you're teaching them that it is fiction, as well. -Yort2008

The books promote Satanic witchcraft. Reading Harry Potter desensitizes people to the danger of the occult. Rowling has made magic popular; kids are comfortable talking about it. Rowling has inadvertently made a way for them to take a gradual road to demonic power. These books are only the first harmless step toward a desire to be a witch. Yes, the books in themselves are harmless, but where they can lead is deadly. I would not toy with it.

As for Tolkien, I dont see how Angels can be "much worse" than witches. I've read his mythology, and there are key differences between Gandalf and Dumbledor (or however you spell it). Gandalf came from "the West," i.e. Heaven, to help the mortal world with all its problems. The wizards in the HP books were not sent from a "God," and, as far as I can remember, did not help the normal, English people at all. In fact, the witches and the non-witches did not get along very well at all.

This is the real difference. The HP wizards are seen as good, yet they do not work with any of the regular "good guys." Gandalf worked in conjunction with the established governments: Rohan, Gondor, ect. He is on good terms with even the grumpy, corrupt Steward Denathor.

Now today, in the real world, we see the occult, all full of very nice warm open people, I'm sure, working separately from the rest of the "good guys." Oh yeah, every once and a while you hear about the CIA hiring a psychic, but they are definitely not mainstream. This is mainly because people, as in the HP books, don't believe in magic. But the occult doesn't really have that for a goal. They don't seem as if they are trying let everyone believe in magic, they just want to be left alone and do their own thing. Just like the wizards at Hogwarts. They are only interested in their own ends. Scotland Yard is not viewed as an organization of "Good guys" to help out. The Magic people have their own little world, with all their own authorities. It's not completely at enmity with the real-world authorities, but Hogwarts has no desire to get along with the rest of the world, or even let anyone know they exist. Do you see the similarities? --Ṣ₮ёVeN 10:00, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Question for you Steven: do you have to believe in witchcraft to become a witch? In other words, if you think HP is just fiction, can you play "pretend Harry Potter" and accidentally turn someone into a newt? Or another question: if you do believe in witchcraft, can you discover it with only help from the Harry Potter books, or do you have to find a witch mentor? HelpJazz 13:36, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

No, if you believe in witchcraft you need a "witch mentor" to direct to the serious stuff. Harry Potter, as I said, only generates interest in magic. Its just the first step toward believing in it. I realize most kids reading the books know that its fiction, but you heard about the kid that ran into the ocean to find Spongebob, right? Once in a while, people can really get into it, and an overdose of Harry Potter will drive you nuts. Than again, its doubtful it will drive you to your local fortune teller, but the occult is probably more popular than we realize, and if someone has a friend that will influence him: "Come try some incantations with me and my older brother." who knows where that could lead.

Yes, you need to believe in witchcraft to become a witch. But you don't need to understand it, and while there are no children who understand it, there are plenty who are curious, and there's a chance they could become involved with it.

I could argue this all day. If my current vein ceases to work, I can just fall back on the Bible.  :-) --Ṣ₮ёVeN 10:12, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

So really, since kids can't learn witchcraft from Harry Potter, they have to have an outside knowledge of witchcraft to realize it's even real, let alone be able to do magic themselves. There will always be anecdotes of a kid here or there taking something literally, but there's no danger of people becoming witches. (I'd argue that witches don't exist, but that's something else entirely). I read the Godfather at a young age, which gave me an interest in organized crime. I haven't joined the Mafia, but I have read numerous books, watched numerous movies and played numerous video games with organized crime themes. HelpJazz 20:10, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

I agree with HelpJazz. This is the worst kind of argument: that something should be censored because it might unintentionally inspire somebody to do something irresponsible. By the same token, you could say that Superman (or Batman, Spiderman, Peter Pan, etc.) should be banned because it might cause some kids to try jumping off buildings to see if they can fly. Sideways 20:24, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Whoa, whoa. Who said it "should be censored"? Who said these books "should be banned"? The question above asks whether Harry Potter promotes Satanic witchcraft. Yeah it does; Harry Potter obviously promotes witchcraft. And I don't know any kind of witchcraft that is not Satanic. --Ṣ₮ёVeN 16:41, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

Re: not wanting the books banned - then what are you suggesting? Re: "I don't know any kind of witchcraft that is not Satanic" - what about fictional witchcraft? Like, for example, the witchcraft & wizardry in the Harry Potter books which is what we are discussing, which is not Satanic or religious at all but is portrayed as a secular activity by people who are gifted with (fictional) magical abilities. Sideways 18:28, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

There seems to have been a sort of misunderstanding. Harry Potter contains fictional witchcraft. Fiction promotes an interest in reality, like reading the Godfather gave HelpJazz an interest in organized crime. Satanic witchcraft, which is a reality, becomes more popular through fictional witchcraft. The fictional promotes the satanic. --Ṣ₮ёVeN 09:31, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

(un-indent) Whether or not being interested in witches makes you more likely to try the occult, I would not like to have my kids interested in it. I think, as i said, reading Harry Potter might a first step, in a rare case, to really get involved with magic. But even if the books could never lead to the real and the dangerous and the openly satanic, I would not allow my kids to read them. (BTW im 18) Some things are just too scary to play with. I would probably let them read fictional organized crime, but not a novel about prostitutes in LA. The Godfather is full of wicked actions, but I don't think kids become as interested in being a drug lord as being a wizard. Fictional evil is still evil, but the more appealing an evil, the less I want them exposed to it. Maybe when they are older (14, maybe) I'll let them decide for themselves how evil it is. --Ṣ₮ёVeN 09:45, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Steve, I do agree with you from the standpoint that if an innocent child reads Harry Potter they will probably be effected for good or for ill. But if the person realizes the wrong moral themes in Harry Potter and acknowledges them as being wrong, then the book is not harmful. For example, I read the series, acknowledged that the moral themes were wrong and was left untouched. So in essence it all really depends on the reader. ~Beth^Talk2ME 09:54, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

The idea is preposterous! Harry Potter is a work of fiction. "Witchcraft" is not real! Any 10-year-old could tell you that. "Harry Potter-phobia" is almost like the first tinders of a firepit being built for modern Salem Witch Trials. Again, witchcraft is not real! --poiu

If Harry Potter promotes Satanic witchcraft, then Animal Farm promotes beastiality and reading World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War promotes cannibalism, and studying German promotes Nazism. Fiction is fiction is fiction. If someone cannot distinguish between reality and fiction, they should see a trained doctor at once. --LincolnShuddered

Harry Potter is a boyish British brutish brat. Hero of all the those who go to a school with a bizarre name. Baronvonbob