"Lincoln was perhaps the only President who appeared to move from being an unbeliever to believer while in office."
Unbeliever/believer of what? This has no context for non-Christians. I get it, but to most other people it probably sounds bizarre.
The word "unbeliever" is also sort of awkward. Someone can be unbelievable, but usually someone isn't an unbeliever. So if you're an "unbeliever" do you "unbelieve" things? I'm not so sure someone can "unbelieve" something; I don't think it works well as a verb or a noun. --WOVcenter 12:30, 5 March 2007 (EST)
Good point. I'll clarify now. Thanks.--Aschlafly 12:42, 5 March 2007 (EST)
What about non-believer?--WOVcenter 12:47, 5 March 2007 (EST)
Ah, it looks good now. Thanks! -WOVcenter 12:50, 5 March 2007 (EST)
Where is the evidence that Lincoln was a "non-believer?" In almost everything I have read on Lincoln, he certaintly believed in God but held views that were outside the norms. Just because he didn't practice an organized form of Christianity does not mean he was a "non-believer."--Dave3172 23:28, 7 March 2007 (EST)
Lincoln made statements early in his life that indicated a lack of certainty or belief about Christianity, but his views changed over time, and he gave his life to Jesus at Gettysburg, when he was president. Taking statements that he made in his youth and automatically saying that he wasn't a Christian or was a Deist is something that shouldn't be done, and is academically dishonest at worst. DanH 00:44, 26 November 2007 (EST)
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the story about Grace and Lincoln's beard is apocryphal. I haven't done any real looking into it, but it may be worth removing until we can cite it. Actually, this article is in need of some serious citations... I'll try and work on that. Any help is appreciated. NTemple
Added a pic of Lincoln taken in 1863, but it won't load into the page properly. Karajou 12:12, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
I replaced the out-of-context quotation which liberals like to tar and feather Lincoln with. They want to make him seem soft on slavery, when he in fact opposed it.
There was, however, one thing he cared more about than the slavery issue: that was keeping the union together. If he had to pick one over the other, this was the one he'd pick.
As history shows, he managed to get both, even if it killed him. --Ed Poor 22:56, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
"Lincoln opposed slavery."
This page currently contains the quote "Lincoln opposed slavery." This is at best an over-simplification of his later philosophy.
The plain, objective, documented fact, for which citations and quotations are widely available, is that this is a stance that he took considerable time to arrive at. You cannot uphold the credibility of this site by whitewashing this. Those of opposing points of view know this and will use it to discredit this site, and they will be right. I have re-added the quote to hopefully stimulate people into making a truly balanced page, instead of a central-party style hagiography. If you object to the presence of the quote, balance it rather than censor it.
- No, you are right: Lincoln hated slavery but was wary about abolition. He only forced the issue in the last dozen years of his life. But consider this quote:
- I confess that I hate to see the poor creatures hunted down down, and caught, and carried back to their stripes and unwarranted toils; but I bite my lip and keep quiet. ... It is hardly fair for you to assume, that I have no such interest in a thing which has, and continually exercises, the power of making me miserable.
- Where Liberals and Conservatives disagree is on the meaning of this contradiction. Lincoln debunkers say that his reluctance to support abolition implies an equal lack of concern about slavery. Their view contradicts Lincoln's view! --Ed Poor 19:41, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
- I don't worry about people laughing - their merriment is no indication of the correctness of their views. --Ed Poor 19:41, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
The best source material covering Lincoln's own views on slavery and relations between blacks and whites are his own words, period. I've added a link to the "Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln" which is everything that Lincoln ever wrote down. Other primary sources are those works written down by people who actually knew him, and for that Frederick Douglas is at the top of the list.
Carl Sandburg's book should be at the top for secondary source material, as he had interviewed people who knew Lincoln when he wrote his 4-volume biography. After I do the Civil War, I'll commence work on this article. Karajou 15:29, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
So, who exactly claims that Lincoln owned slaves?--Epicurius 14:15, 11 April 2007 (EDT)
I've uploaded a picture of the Lincoln Memorial that I took for this article - DcLincMor.JPG - --Tash 19:49, 15 April 2007 (EDT)
This is a good one:
On the main page it says this article needs to be improved... but it's locked. GodlessLiberal 15:16, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
The article is improved, but at this time it is not finished. I need to work out the references and polish it up; I need to add in his family life; his Gettysburg Address, letter to Mrs Bixby, et al, needs to be added, as well as a few pics. It also needs to be linked to the various other articles releated to Lincoln here on this website. But it's better than it was earlier. Karajou 22:23, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
Added personal life...more to come. Karajou 12:34, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
Among the top articles to be improved
I think that if you have an article list that says these articles need to be improved then why is this thing blocked? If it is blocked then it shouldn't be on that list (on the Main Page.) Could someone either take it off the list or make the improvements to take it off? -Additioner 14:23, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
- We only block articles in response to vandalism or edit war. If blocked, then please propose additions on the talk page. In the case of Abraham Lincoln, I'll unblock it for you now so you can edit directly. Thanks.--Aschlafly 14:32, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
Additional edits coming
Here's what I think it needs:
- Expansion regarding religious beliefs. Currently it says a few things he said about it, but nothing really on what he felt.
- Create a new subheading on the Lincoln-Douglas debates; this really needs some detail.
- Expand and add to his views on slavery. He did think at one time that blacks were inferior, but it changed over time. And mention of Frederick Douglas needs to be here, as Lincoln sought his council on the subject.
- Expand the Civil War.
- Expand his personal life. He was heartbroken over Willie's death, and this affected his belief in God on the plus side.
Karajou 13:49, 12 May 2007 (EDT)
Terms of Office
I think that there should be a citation for Abraham Lincoln's terms of office. I would do it myself, but the editing appears to have been disabled. Mal 21:49, 19 June 2008 (EDT)