Talk:Alt-right

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I can't find a source

" The alt-right accepts the study of evolution and global warming... " This is idiosyncrasy of the left. I don't see a source that confirms this. I think it's important to re-include Masculinity as a rejection of Feminism. Metrosexual, feminist beta males have zero support. Men being men, traditional male roles that built the West are lauded.--Jpatt 20:54, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

Great points. Please improve the entry as you think best. It had some nonsensical criticisms of alt-right in it and perhaps some good material was deleted as part of the cleanup effort.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 22:10, 10 October 2016 (EDT)
I'll find a source for evolution. global warming is harder as the alt-right has been flooded with libertarians who bring their anarcho-capitalist ideas with them. Can someone upload this picture to the entry? https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByPjSf143rlyaTFWQ2VraXVlLVE/view?usp=sharing Kashifv (talk) 18:15, 4 February 2017 (EST)
Vox Day has been called a figurehead of the alt-right and he rejects evolution. On his blog, he prominently links to Conservapedia's atheism and evolution articles. Conservative (talk) 18:50, 4 February 2017 (EST)

Righting about the alt-right is going to be difficult. It a loose internet amalgamation of people on the right who are not traditional conservatives and a large percentage of them are anonymous. And it is splintering. There is now the New Right and the alt-lite. Conservative (talk) 19:07, 4 February 2017 (EST)

Here is a decent article on the alt-right as far as an explanation of it: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment-conservatives-guide-to-the-alt-right/ Conservative (talk) 19:16, 4 February 2017 (EST)


The alt-right is an anarcho-fascist movement (confederacies of racially separate tribes allied against the state; the alt-right not only opposes centralized government they oppose the existence of the state itself). On the periphery is libertarian NATIONALISTS who were formerly anarcho-capitalists. These libertarians are concerned they will be soon outnumbered by socialist immigrants from the third world and have given up their open-borders mantra for nationalism. They have concluded that nationalism does not necessarily mean statism and they make up the libertarian and pro-capitalist element of the alt-right. The two groups are allied over an idea called anarcho-monarchism (also called Mezionism) in which a king or a strong centralized LEADER (not state) allies himself with the people to take down a progressive totalitarian state as a sort of dark messiah; hence the Alt-Right's admiration for Bane (from Batman).

The alt-right originals accept evolution because it points to DIFFERENCES in racial IQ hence their push for western supremacy.

They are suspicious of protestant evangelical christians for supporting immigration for conversion purposes; a large portion of the alt-right is Catholic and Orthodox christians. The alt-right could correctly be called post-evangelical conservatism.

The original alt-right also supported global warming (eco-fascism) because it supports the idea of less people in a country (anti-immigration anti-migration anti-global movement; Google "Matt Parrot"). This portion has grown quiet since the large majority of the alt-right is immediately interested in taking down the UN (fight globalization first THEN push for eco-fascism to control large multinational corporations that want a free influx of people of people for cheap labor).

The dispute within the alt-right is that the alt-right originals have concluded that the libertarian element is simply nationalistic and cannot be counted on to support racial separatism. They believe that libertarians are using the alt-right to secure capitalism (which the alt-right leadership is suspicious of since large corporations push mass migrations and open borders).

The 'New Right' is actually the European predecessor to the American alt-right by 50 years. However American Alt-Righters have recently begun to call themselves "New Right" to establish a pan-Atlantic pan-European alliance. The European New Right has been around since the 1930's (Google "Oswald Spengler". Kashifv (talk) 16:18, 5 February 2017 (EST)

The American intellectual founder of the Alt-Right is generally considered to be Samuel T. Francis who said "It is all very well to point to black cotton-pickers and Chinese railroad workers, but the cotton fields and the railroads were there because white people wanted them and knew how to put them there. Almost all non-European contributors to American history either have been made by individuals and groups that have assimilated Euro-American ideas, values, and goals, or have been conceived, organized, and directed by white leaders." Kashifv (talk) 02:37, 6 February 2017 (EST)

The alt-right as it exists today is most completely defined by Professor Bernard Hermann Hoppe of UN-LV who wrote the book "Democracy: The God That Failed" (an appeal to anarcho-monarchism) http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6/15/876205/-

Libertarians and fascists organizing on 4chan boards https://yuki.la/pol/87362783 Kashifv (talk) 02:34, 6 February 2017 (EST)

illustrations symbolizing the libertarian fascist alliance https://goo.gl/photos/4ySTJz3PMxPGbf13A Kashifv (talk) 20:28, 6 February 2017 (EST)

The alt-right arose in response to secular leftism and liberalism. It is an aggressive political ideology that uses the Sun Tzu principle of stealth via anonymous internet activists.
John C. Wright asserts that secular leftism is a religion and will not be defeated by mere political opposition and he argues that Christianity is a more potent adversary. [1]
Adolf Hitler was defeated in a two front war. Secular leftism is primarily facing a three front war against Christianity, Islam and right of center political ideologies. One thing for certain, it is not winning the war and it is suffering defeats now in the Western World (for example, Decline of global atheism, Brexit, Donald Trump's election, rise of nationalist right-wing parties, flood of religious immigrants to the West who are resistant to secularization, etc.).
Secular leftists/liberals are now like trapped rats.[2] And now that name-calling is increasingly ineffective to cow their opponents, they are turning to violence because that is all they have left.[3] Conservative (talk) 08:44, 6 February 2017 (EST)
Hitler was a Secular leftist/liberal?--AaronC1 (talk) 12:45, 6 February 2017 (EST)

First, I did not say that Hitler was a secular leftist. My main point was that secular leftists are largely fighting a three front war and they are not faring well from a global perspective and they have suffered some significant defeats as of late in the Western World. Given that we live in a world where globalization is a strong factor (immigration, world communications, trade, etc.), the fact that secular leftism is faring poorly globally is certainly notable.

Second, the data is cloudy on whether Hitler was an atheist or not due to various conclusions that people take from Hitler's Tabletalk.[4] It is vary hard to know given that Hitler/Joseph Goebbels were both liars. Hitler was a staunch evolutionist though and the most vocal proponents of evolutionism have often been atheists/agnostics. See: Evolutionary racism

Third, Hitler greatly expanded the size of government when he committed perhaps the biggest strategic folly of any leader in history and launched Operation Barbarossa. The Eastern Front attack was a complete disaster given the timing of the attack (Russian winters), but perhaps it would have failed if he had done it at another time. Maybe Joseph Stalin would have attacked first if Germany didn't attack first as some historians argue.[5] It is hard to predict the actions of militant atheist madmen. Regardless, WWII launched Germany into an era of big government.

Next, I really don't see much of a difference between fascism/communism. Both are undemocratic/big government enterprises that trample civil liberties. See: Similarities between Communism, Nazism and liberalism (Granted fascism/communism trample civil liberties to a far higher degree than liberalism). Conservative (talk) 14:08, 6 February 2017 (EST)

I hear you on the last point.--AaronC1 (talk) 14:28, 6 February 2017 (EST)

See: Militant atheism vs. Christianity, Islam and right-wing ideology

I decided to create an article on the three front ideological war facing atheism. Conservative (talk) 16:09, 6 February 2017 (EST)

The American Alt-Right is distinct from the European "New Right" in the sense that it has a libertarian component. Illustrations of the libertarian-fascist alliance https://goo.gl/photos/4ySTJz3PMxPGbf13A. Europe has a sparse history of libertarianism while libertarianism is culturally embedded (with and without a name) into American political history. Thus in Europe as in the case of Hitler you can be conservative AND support big government (as long as you tribalize yourself by race or nation). In the classic political spectrum, which includes the European definition of conservatism, the government becomes more totalitarian the farther right and the farther left you go (understandable why this is confusing to American conservativism, which is a liberalized (deregulated) variant of classical liberalism). German fascism (Nazism) declares that "nationalism is the only true form of socialism." The alt-right (originally) declared that "racialism is the only form of socialism" meaning that the cultural norms created by racial tribalism could replace the government itself. With the entrance of nationalist libertarians the alt-right's focus on racialism has become more abstruse but is still immutable. Matt Parrot, one of the founding fathers of the current alt-right, explains the original alt-right members' problem with economic libertarianism (and Jewish 'influence') http://www.counter-currents.com/2012/02/the-real-ron-paul-scandal/ Kashifv (talk) 20:43, 6 February 2017 (EST)

I think it is more complicated than that.

From The Atlantic re: American right-winger Mike Cernovich:

“I think the battle lines are pretty clear now,” Cernovich said. “We have a nice line of demarcation, so I’m happy with where I am and how it shook out. There’s the alt-right which wants to do white identity politics, and then there’s people like me and Jeff who, we want to do nationalism without white identity politics, and now everybody knows where I stand and everybody knows where everybody else is, so I’m thrilled with the development.”

Cernovich said he “for sure” sees himself as the leader of the “new right.”

“The alt-right’s dead,” Cernovich said. “Well, the alt-right’s dead as to most of the people in this room.”

“The media has overstated the scope and influence of the alt-right,” he said. - The 'New Right' and the 'Alt-Right' Party on a Fractious Night, The Atlantic, JAN 20, 2017

American and world politics is very much in a state of flux with new factions developing on the right. And there are only so many catchy terms like "New Right". And we have a person (or people) vying for the term "new right" without necessarily knowing the past of this term. Conservative (talk) 21:28, 6 February 2017 (EST)

Agreed and we have a lot of material here to add to the artice; i do have one more entry to add to the talk page will do in a couple of days. Hitler was in fact a right-winger of the authoritarian variety although it's hard to convince American conservatives of that. Here's Hitler's political orientation on a 4-way political axis https://goo.gl/knG2Wx. The American New Right is the less-racialized version of the american alt-right; it could be called the "alt-lite" (Cernovich himself is considered an alt-liter; and the New Right (American) is heavily driven by a libertarian philosophy called distributism https://goo.gl/4HbAIx or propertarianism https://goo.gl/FqWyg1). Unlike the alt-right, the alt-lite, such as Breitbart.com, is basically a western supremacy or identity movement rather than a white identity or separatist movement. However this is not the case with the European New Right which has never adopted the name "alt-right." There are no clear "Alt-right/New right" lines everything is "New Right" in Europe meaning racial and western identitarianism tend to go hand-in-hand (Europe's history of immigration is very recent (1970's and onward) and they have imported too many unassimilable immigrants).
By the time we're done this article is going to pull far ahead of the wikipedia page :p Kashifv (talk) 23:58, 6 February 2017 (EST)

Alt-right factions and infighting

See: The alt-right is tearing itself apart. What remains after will be the future of far-right politics.

It may take awhile before the dust settles as far as the alt-right. Conservative (talk) 20:57, 3 July 2017 (EDT)

Is the Alt-right a prelude to an "Anti-Christian Right?"

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2018/03/the-anti-christian-alt-right

If the essay in the link above is right, then we should not be celebrating the rise of the Alt-right. Not in the slightest.

An "Anti-Christian Right" led by Millennials who associate "right-wing" with racist, neo-pagan identity politics even when they claim to embrace Conservatism, would be just as big of a threat to Conservatism as the Left is.

Considering that the Baby Boomers and the Generation X-ers are currently the generations that are running the government, I say we still have time to combat this subversive influence on Conservative Millennials -- and prevent the GOP from mutating in what would essentially be a right-wing version of the Democrat party in terms of immorality and God-lessness. But it won't be easy, and we don't have too much time. In five years, we will be seeing the first of America's leaders from the Millennial generation. In twenty-five years, our government will be almost entirely run by Millennials. We need to be prepared. Geopolitician (talk) 23:10, 6 March 2018 (EDT)

The term "alt-right" has several meanings. One meaning is "anti-establishment conservatism", another is "white supremacism," and another is what you mentioned above (though maybe it's also the second definition). Before the 2016 election, I always thought of the alt-right as anti-establishment conservatives who are more bold and bombastic than "traditional" conservatives, and I was actually surprised to see the term suddenly used to refer to "white supremacism" after the election. --1990'sguy (talk) 23:26, 6 March 2018 (EST)
I was never surprised to see the term "Alt-right" be used to describe white ethno-nationalism. During the election, I saw the warnings. But unfortunately, almost all of them were from the pro-Clinton and NeverTrump Republican camps who were trying to frame Trump as one of those guys. So I knew that most people in the Trump camp would dismiss these warnings. But not me. I did my own homework during the election and I slowly discovered that many of the claims about the Alt-right made by the pro-Clinton and NeverTrump Republican camps were true. The cold, hard truth is that we stole the term "Alt-right" from the people who actually coined the term as the name of a political movement. The original "Alt-right" are these racist, neo-pagan, anti-Christian nationalists who I'm talking about. We stole that term out of vanity. Because Hillary Clinton (wrongfully) labeled us as such, we embraced the term without bothering to do research on what it actually means -- out of spite for Clinton. In my opinion, this was an extremely foolish decision on our part, and it has the potential to cause serious damage to the GOP over the next quarter of a century.
This long-term damage would be done in two steps.
First, because we embraced the term "Alt-right," the actual Alt-right is starting to infiltrate the GOP. Perhaps the two most prominent examples of such infiltration thus far are Paul Nehlen and Arthur Jones. Ever since he lost his first primary race against Paul Ryan, Paul Nehlen has gone over to the dark side. He has openly embraced the actual Alt-right and repeatedly posted racist and anti-Semitic tweets/memes, including one where he basically called President Trump a "cuck." As for Arthur Jones, he is a former leader of the American Nazi Party who is running for Congress in Illinois as a Republican. It is very likely that he will win the primary in his district due to lack of opposition. I have no doubt that the MSM will use these two men as excuses to discredit the GOP in 2018 and later elections. In fact, it already has tried that tactic. Go on YouTube and type "Alisyn Camerota interviews Arthur Jones." This will put us in a position where we will come out damaged no matter what we do. If we continue to embrace the term "alt-right," the MSM will continue their efforts to demonize us as racist/Nazis. And even if the American people don't buy that narrative (they didn't buy it in 2016), we still will have an Alt-right infiltration problem -- that likely will worsen with each electoral success we have.
Second, the actual Alt-right despises traditional American Conservatism. Truly despises it. Once it becomes influential enough in the GOP, it will begin attempts at a hostile takeover. It will demonize us of all people as Establishment globalists because we embrace traditional American Conservatism, and therefore are not "alt-right" enough. If those tactics sound familiar, they should. Those are the same tactics the radical left used to take over the DNC nearly 50 years ago. History is in the process of slowly repeating itself. The DNC had their Baby Boomers, and now we have our Millennials. Like their Baby Boomer counterparts, the Millennials are so disillusioned with American society that they have become prone to accepting extremist, counter-cultural, anti-Chrstian ideologies as the answer to life. The Baby Boomers flocked to the New Left. The Millennials are flocking to both the Bernie Sanders Left and the Richard Spencer Alt-right Geopolitician (talk) 11:10, 7 March 2018 (EDT)
From a public relations perspective, the mainstream press killed the term alt-right in America post Charlottesville. It didn't help that Richard Spencer was an atheist who coyly flirted with a neo-nazism allusions (Nazi salute, etc.) to get publicity while saying he was not a neo-nazi. The Nazis leaned left wing and it is no mistake that the name of their party was the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
In North America, it seems to me that the agnostic and Canadian Jordan Peterson is having more political influence than the alt-right at the present time (Peterson has a mixture of left/right ideas). See: Google trends: Jordan Peterson and alt-right.
I am not sure what is happening with the alt-right in Europe.
For all intents and purposes, the term alt-right isn't really needed. Right-wing nationalism and fundamentalist religion is growing in Europe/world and backlash against Islam and Muslim immigration is growing fairly rapidly. I understand the usefulness of political terminology, but whatever terms you want to use for people on the right, the right is growing.Conservative (talk) 15:56, 10 June 2018 (EDT)