Talk:Concentration camp

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Factual edits with sources needed here. First, it was primarily Jews, political dissidents, gypsies and homosexuals killed in the camps. By sheer numbers, Jewish deaths far exceeded all others. Second, it is not true that the camps were unknown until found by allied troops. For example, FDR knew of the camps and their significance quite early in the war, but felt that defeating Germany was the best way to help, rather than directly bombing train lines, etc. Palmd001 15:57, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Anne Applebaum (see external link) says the concept predates the Boer War. John Toland says Indian Reservations were t he first concentration camps. Nonetheless, the term known as "concentration camp" as a appearing in the literature, was first coined by Lenin. RobS 22:12, 20 May 2007 (EDT)

The term itself was first used during the Boer War. See, for instance, the Fawcett Commission report from 1902, here:

http://library.stanford.edu/africa/pplcx.html

entitled "Report on the Concentration Camps in South Africa"--Steve 10
08, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

Contents

Bosnian Camps

I have removed the section on the Bosnian camp. As focused on in the article, concentration camps are set up to systematically wipe out large populations over a period of time based upon decisions made from the highest levels of a regime. The death rate, both for the Nazis and for the Russians, was in the millions. The Bosnian Camp, while brutal, resulted in the death to over 100 people, a different level of scope. To equate this to German or Soviet concentration camps does not seem to be a fair comparison. I hope you understand. Learn together 03:09, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

Disputed Information

"The Soviet Union created the world's first concentration camp system with a network of prisons and labor camps" is false. Read this bill of the Canadian parliament stating that the Canadians placed Ukrainians in concentration camps from 1914-1920. This was before the Soviets. Bohdan 15:54, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

"cause memorial plaques to be installed at any of the twenty-four concentration camps at which persons of Ukrainian descent and other Europeans were interned during and after the First World War, which do not yet have such plaques, describing the events at that time and the regrets of present-day Canadians, written in Ukrainian, English and French" From the bill. Bohdan 15:55, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

Concentration camps were established by Lord Kitchener during the Boer War in South Africa, and possibly by the Spanish on Cuba, both during the 1890's. Karajou 15:59, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

This is someone elses quote, but 'The Ukrainians were the victims of the First Concentration Camps because there was no rebellion, “insurrection” or “war”. The Cuban Insurrection was exactly that - and no matter how many infants died during the Boer War, their families were at war." Bohdan
What this discussion is, is over the use of the term or phrase "concentration camp." General Volkogonov's research attributes the term, "concentration camp" to Lenin. Now, other researchers cite other instances of mass incarceration prior to Lenin and have ascribed the term "concentration camp" to it. Hitler biographer John Toland for example, claims Hitler got the idea of concentration camps segregated by race from American Indian Reservations in the 19th century. Of course, when Congress established Reservations they did not call them "concentration camps."
So, what the problem is, for those researchers who maintain that the term "concentration camp" was used prior to Lenin, they must produce primary source documents proving the claim that the term was used, not simply the authors claim that they existed in the Boer War, for example. Rob Smith 00:14, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
The cite from the Canadian Parliament is dated 2004, i.e. it is non-contemporaneous. This means that the Canadian Parliament in 2004 refers to the internment of Ukrainians from 1914 to 1920 as being in "concentration camps." It does not however give us the term the Canadian government used in 1914 for those places of internment. Rob Smith 00:22, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
So if I can get a citation that states that they were known at the time as concentration camps, it could go in the article? Bohdan 00:25, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
That is the idea. We need a citation to a contemporaneous document using the term (or its translated equivalent), "concentration camp." It's all to easy for an author to make a hyperbolic claim that Indian Reservations were concentration camps. And that is how misinformation gets transmitted in historical writing. Rob Smith 00:31, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
How about this: [1]. Look at the first footnote. It says "The term "concentration camp" was used at the time. See for example, the Officer Commanding, 5th Military Division, Quebec, to Major General Otter, 4 January 1915 in National Archives of Canada (NAC) Record Group (RG) 24, Volume 4513, File 2." Bohdan 00:43, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
That is aexactly what is needed. Very good research. Let's use it.
A parallel and extremely problematic issue is use of the term KGB. The KGB did not come into existence until 1954. Yet contemporary historians now more and more are coming to the convention of using "KGB" for all the KGB's predecessor agencies, Cheka, GPU, OGPU, NKVD, NKGB, MGB, and MVD. We could problaby throw in SMERSH, GRU, KI and few others. Although the KGB is direct descendant of some, strictly speaking none of them use the term "KGB". A cursory look can lead to confusion. But it is becoming more and more a convention to refer to at least all the predecessor agencies as "KGB," and it still needs some explanation for simplicity. Rob Smith 00:55, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
It irritates me when people refer to the predecessors as the KGB, especially the NKVD. Bohdan 01:06, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

References

Not all references are in a form that they will be picked up in the references section. This should be remedied. Learn together 11:51, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

US Concentration Camps

There have been some disputes recently over whether the Japanese internment belongs on this page. Obviously it is wrong for any country to round up its own citizens, or legal immigrants, and put them in large camps like that. However, the internment camps in the US didn't execute prisoners en masse like in occupied Europe, nor did it put them to work building war material like in Soviet Russia, nor were they used as labor of any sort, nor deprived of basic necessities. Concentration camp is such a strong term, full of attachments to ideas of starvation and execution, that I think it really is debatable whether the term can be accurately used to describe the internment camps of the early 40s. JacobB 18:00, 2 June 2010 (EDT)

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