Talk:Debate:Is Obama a Muslim?

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NormanS's View

I agree with the above, there is little to no evidence that Obama is a Muslim. In fact the whole myth seems to have been started by Andy Martin, a colourful "lawyer" (he was rejected from the bar) who is known for his racist rants against Jews and other groups and his frivolous lawsuits. As an Australian based McCain supporter and a pretty Conservative Christian I was upset when Obama won. However, the reason I oppose him is because of his policies, not because of some misguided claim about his religion. If you really were interested in making personal attacks against him you'd be better off accepting his claim that he's a Christian and then pointing out how hypocritical he is. That said, there is no integrity in attacking a person's character over their policies, regardless of their political ideology.

As one of the articles posted in the news section stated, the repeated claims that Obama was a Muslim made people vote for him, not against him. The article in its present state reads as a parody and does nothing to help the conservative cause. If this project is to have any credibility it must be rewritten to a balanced viewpoint which discusses his policies, rather than making ridiculous strawman arguments and personal attacks. NormanS 21:45, 11 November 2008 (EST)

A couple of things to add to the above. 1. Andy Martin started this rumour (in 2004), claiming he had "evidence" that Obama was a Muslim & had lied to the America people about his faith, though Martin did not make any of this alleged evidence available to the public or even make it clear what kind of evidence it was. 2. A week before the election, Andy Martin appeared on CNN, retracting his claim that Obama is a Muslim, and replacing it with an even crazier theory - that Obama is the long lost son of the journalist and left-wing activitist Frank Marshall Davis. Again he claimed to have uncoverded proof of this, but offered no evidence whatsoever. See this film. Since Martin now states that Obama is not a Muslim, this clearly proves him to have been lying about having any real evidence that Obama was.
As Norman says, Andy Martin has a history of spurious and vicious lawsuits and paranoid racist statements, and this is the guy you are giving credence to if you believe the myth that Obama is a Muslim. This is who started it. Clearly this was intended as a tactic to stop people voting for Obama. It hasn't succeeded & it's too late now. We should just let it go & get on with our lives. Clinging to this silly racist rumour can only damage Conservapedia's credibility. And it is a racist rumour - if we were talking about a white politician, this rumour wouldn't exist at all.
That said, I don't expect this to make any difference at all. This subject has been debated over & over, but Andrew Schlafly is determined to cling on to this story, even in opposition to most of the editors here & some of the prominent administrators. I hope he is willing to engage in this debate, but I really don't think he will. Sideways 07:33, 12 November 2008 (EST)

The constitution says that there should be no religous test for office.... Just a thought. --Chris

I've totally avoided getting into the question of "why is it so terrible if Obama actually were Muslim?" because the article never actually says "...and therefore he shouldn't be President." Colin Powell did an excellent job of addressing that issue in his endorsement (which I won't link for fear of accidentally promoting evil liberal concepts like diversity and religious tolerance). --woozle 14:11, 13 November 2008 (EST)

Thanks Sideways for restoring Norman's comments, et al. We might not want talk:Main Page cluttered up with debate, but the very purpose of Debate Topics is to air all points of view. Please inform me if anyone again tries to censor a CP debate. --Ed Poor Talk 08:06, 14 November 2008 (EST)

What's the Point?

I don't see what good it does to say that Obama is a muslim. Why can't we just take him at his word and let God judge his heart? Conservapedia's dwindling credibility is at stake; we will only look foolish if we make such unproven claims. I say we spend more time talking about how Obama is a baby-killer and a socialist-- both established facts (though the term "baby-killer" isn't widely used). --Ben Talk 14:23, 13 November 2008 (EST)

I second this suggestion, though probably for different reasons. --woozle 21:05, 13 November 2008 (EST)

Retitle Request

This page should be renamed "Why Obama is not a Muslim." Just for the sheer number of excuses given here. It seems that Obama was born a Muslim, disputed. That he took Muslim classes, disputed. That his stepfather was Muslim, disputed. Later in life, he extensively reads about Muslims leaders, disputed. Exclusively organized a march for the Nation of Islam, disputed. Friends with known Muslims, disputed. Pastor of twenty years is an outspoken defender of Muslims, disputed. Helps in the election of Muslims in Kenya, disputed. Get my drift? Just can't possibly be a Muslim. --Jpatt 23:56, 13 November 2008 (EST)

I think this argument was brought forth in an earlier discussion on this topic and was easily defeated. Think of all the "disputed" things as individual pieces of evidence in a bigger puzzle. Lets say you are a detective trying to solve a crime. You may find 10 different things in your investigation which point to a certain suspect. Each thing individually may be disputed, and no individual one may be the "smoking gun", but from the sheer amount of them one can deduce that the suspect is most likely the perpetrator. --DRamon 00:04, 14 November 2008 (EST)
So, the volume of accusations is proof they are true? HDCase 00:05, 14 November 2008 (EST)
The volume is just a pattern. The only way we will know for sure is if Obama says, yes, all along my heart belongs to Muhammed. Even then, I am sure the left would discount it all as "ahh, he really didn't take it all seriously." --Jpatt 00:10, 14 November 2008 (EST)
So... you can't actually know, but you're just going to say you're right anyway because it works better for you politically? HDCase 00:12, 14 November 2008 (EST)
Clever, but no. Likely Muslim- yes. I want him to succeed, believe me my family is counting on him. There are over 1 billion Muslims, being a Muslim isn't a bad thing. Secret Muslim is something much different, much. Did you ever here of prophesy? The anti-Christ comes impersonating Christ. I want to believe these are not the end times. One way we will know for sure is how Obama governs as leader.--Jpatt 00:19, 14 November 2008 (EST)
Personally, I don't buy into hocuspocus future-sight jibberjabber. So yes, I've heard of prophecy, but no, I don't give it any heed. But I can see how you'd get "impersonating Christ" from someone accused of being a socialist. HDCase 00:24, 14 November 2008 (EST)
You be best to educate yourself on Revelation. It seems Barry is called many things, and such a short life so far, Commie Messiah.--Jpatt 00:34, 14 November 2008 (EST)
Every Pope, Peter the Great, and most U.S. Presidents have been called antichrist. It's a bit premature to suggest he'll be more powerful than all of those when he hasn't been sworn in yet; he could turn out to be another Buchanan. --Interiot 09:45, 14 November 2008 (EST)
Right, I don't believe in futuresight, therefore I should take its claims seriously. Aside from that, both sides insult the other frequently. How does that prove anything? You're slinging mud just to see if any sticks. HDCase 13:17, 14 November 2008 (EST)

Jpatt, you are welcome to create Essay:Why Obama Is Not a Muslim. --Ed Poor Talk 09:47, 14 November 2008 (EST)

Bear in mind, though, that despite being a Christian I consider myself a "Muslim" in the sense of being a man who is submissive to the will of God. So be clear about what you mean when you render your opinion. --Ed Poor Talk 09:49, 14 November 2008 (EST)

ANOTHER RESPONSE:

Wow CP1Admin, that was deep. You are right, I guess that does make me a Muslim. No really, I am not but the way I wrongly phrased it, yes. I don't know how Pokistan is translated, brain freeze.--Jpatt 00:58, 14 November 2008 (EST)

I can't name all the Pokemon characters. Does that mean I'm unqualified to be a schoolteacher? --Ed Poor Talk 13:19, 14 November 2008 (EST)
I don't follow your comment, did I miss something or is there any way that you can expound more? Thank you --Brendanw 13:48, 14 November 2008 (EST)
Ed, that not. But your wonderful insights in mathematics and English, along with the creation of wonderfully instructing articles, such as Two meters, are all that parents need to read, when deciding whom to choose as teacher for their children. Respectfully, --Profe 15:14, 14 November 2008 (EST)

Atheism in muslim countries?

Obama was born a Muslim; his father may have been an atheist at heart, but who cares? That (also unverifiable) "fact" is simply irrelevant; this religion is not a theoretical system of philosophical thoughts only, it is a social fact and one nobody living in the Muslim world can escape from (he/she will get killed trying to be an open atheist there - this is not "Islamophobia", but common sense).

Obama perhaps should simply be believed when he says he converted to Christianity.

But this conversion also is irrelevant, if we are interested in the reaction/stance/image of the Arab and Muslim (e.g. Indonesia, Nigeria etc.) World towards him, as he will still be seen as a Muslim there. This seems to be the only really political important part of this whole question. Is Obama a Muslim in the eyes of a great part of the world or not.--Radh 11:49, 19 March 2010 (EDT)

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