Talk:Hitler Youth

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Left Wing/Right Wing

I've basically reshaped this article and added some more content. Feel free to add any feedback. ArnoldLarny 13:33, 9 July 2009 (EDT)

I understand that there's some controversy here about whether the Nazi party is a far-left or far-right political organisation. I have replaced usages with "extremist", because I believe that there are elements of Nazi doctrine which come from both the extreme-left (socialism) and the extreme right (nationalism, institutional racism). I would suggest that although the Nazi party was never a mainstream right-wing party, there were many elements of Nazi doctrine which reflected the extreme-right more than the extreme-left. Also, there were extremist political parties of no real allegiance (the Anarchists etc.) operating in Germany in the mid-1920s, so I suggest Extremist is a more sensible word to use in this context. I hope I have made my reasoning clear, and I invite any reply. I'm not some left-winger, I just feel that this is historically correct. ArnoldLarny 17:07, 11 July 2009 (EDT)

Your argument(s) would seem far more reasonable if you had not reverted the edits of a Administrator first, and posted here last, as well as label your edits as "minor", which means no substantiative changes have been made. It has been demonstrated over and over on this encyclopedia, that it is a liberal lie, a complete invention, that the Nazi's were/are right wing. That people like you continue to create accounts and make a bee-line to any article not stating that liberal orthodoxy is interesting, but rather common place, I'm afraid. Open your mind, Arnold, the truth will set you free! --ṬK/Admin/Talk 17:18, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
Seconded. The "racism is indigenous to the right" theory is simply unfettered commie rot. It's dangerously close to trolling. Rob Smith 17:23, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
Further, replacing Socialist with "extremist" does nothing to furhter your theory that the so-called right-wing is racist in outlook. The National Socialist in fact did mould thier youth organizatiuons after other Socialist organizations. Now, unless your argument is all Socialist organizations are extremist, that edit makes little sense other than denying the Socialist roots of National Socialist. And again, other "extremist" organizations may or may not have had youth organizations, so what non-Socialist albeit extremist organization could it have been modeled after.
Please, our intent is to write a factual encyclopedia and not to be just simply another platform for liberal/commie/progressive/whatever propaganda and anti-conservative hate speech. Thank you. Rob Smith 17:36, 11 July 2009 (EDT)
"Please, our intent is to write a factual encyclopedia" I agree. Can we please discuss the issues instead of just complaining each other? I am not suggesting that the mainstream right-wing is racist, I am suggesting that certain arbitrations from the right-wing, such as the Nazis are racist. Nationalism can easily be exploited. Left-wing parties are generally internationalist, which makes them in theory entirely opposed to racism (I admit that this is not always the case in reality). Was segregation in American society an action of left-wing parties ? Was apartheid socialist ? I think not. I agree that conservatism is the only long-term political solution, but we're not going to get anywhere by branding each other's points of view as trash. "so what non-Socialist albeit extremist organization could it have been modeled after"? I suggested the anarchist party, and I would also add the syndicalist, which were unaligned but similarly violent and unpleasant political groups. The Nazi party did have left wing elements to it, but in social policy it behaved far more like an ultra-right wing party; I await any evidence that the idea that the Nazi party had right-wing elements is a "liberal lie". I would say that I'm politically right-wing, but its just childish to deny that some past right-wing movements have had negative affects on society. Extremist organisations are hard to identify with either the left or right because their behaviour is so rooted in the whim of their leaders. If you're going to block me from editing simply because I don't agree with you, I apologise for wasting your precious time. ArnoldLarny 08:20, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
Furthermore, the Conservapedia article on Fascism states it to be a far-right ideology, and states Nazism to be a type of fascism. I rest my case. ArnoldLarny 18:13, 12 July 2009 (EDT)
Arthur Schlesinger wrote in 1948,
"The Fascists, for example, were not conservative in any very meaningful sense. They did not wish to preserve the existing order, or even to turn back the clock to some more stable century. They purposefully planned to transform the existing order into a new and all-absorbing authoritarianism, based upon the energies and frustrations of modern industrialism. The Fascists, in a meaningful sense, were revolutionaries. Yet their totalitarian ideal hardly fitted into the pattern of the Left, which had been the traditional home of greater freedoms and more generous aspirations. So, after boggling and uncertainty, they were assigned positions on the far Right."[1]
  1. Not Right, Not Left, But a Vital Center, Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr., New York Times Magazine, April 4, 1948.
  2. Pretty weak endorsement from such a noted historian for the position you are espousing. Assigned by who? and basically stating, because fascist views conflicted with their totalitarian cousins views, they were assigned by leftists to "the right" by default. Rob Smith 20:48, 12 July 2009 (EDT)