Talk:Joke sports

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Female version of sports

Hi, long time reader but new editor as I wanted to give something back to the project. I was just wondering why Women's boxing is the only female specific sport listed. To be consistent surely sports such as women's weightlifting, wrestling and some of the athletics events what require pure strength (shot-put, hammer etc) should be included. What do more experience members think of including these? Can I also suggest the 20km walk race?

The other female sports you list seem more legitimate than women's boxing. Women's boxing appears to be particularly artificial - how often are there schoolyard boxing matches between girls?--Andy Schlafly 19:55, 9 August 2012 (EDT)
It happened often enough where I grew up, but I probably came from a tougher neighborhood than you. RayM 20:02, 9 August 2012 (EDT)
I doubt they boxed as boys and men do. I have never, ever heard of that happening, and the small town I grew up in had plenty of fistfights.--Andy Schlafly 20:15, 9 August 2012 (EDT)
You must have lived a particularly sheltered life then Andy!! --DamianJohn 20:54, 9 August 2012 (EDT)

How often on your schoolyard did you see fencing matches? Or two first graders break out into a clean-and-jerk competition? Or archery? Or the down-hill slalom? Or the pentathlon? Or sailing? I think it's fair to say that if you are an Olympics athlete, you probably focused on it outside of the schoolyard.
On a personal side note, as a person who was in both track relays and swimming relays; swimming relay exchanges are much harder. You have to time it such that you enter the water at the exact same time that the person in front of you touches. In track, it's just wait for "Go", then run; wait for "Hit", then put your arm back. Close hand, run some more. But I'm just some guy on the internet; you probably shouldn't take my word for it. But if we are going to have this footnote, could we add some citation at least giving a reputable opinion that track is harder than swimming? PaulRP 21:34, 9 August 2012 (EDT)

I'll second that comment: swimming relays are difficult to get right, and easy to blow. Disqualifications are common at the high school level, and not unheard of in college swimming because of the split-second timing required by all but the first swimmer in the relay.--Bwebster 00:23, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
But I don't think difficulty is the test. Lots of silly new televised competitions are difficult, but are not legitimate sports.--Andy Schlafly 00:34, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
So swimming relays are illegitimate because of the absence of a baton. That is your argument? RayM 00:35, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

criteria?

I'm wondering what our actual criteria are for inclusion on this list. I, for one, don't think that Swimming relays, BMX, or beach volleyball are "joke" sports, unless we want to include golf as a joke sport, sailing as a joke sport (please don't do this. the sailing fan in me would be sad). In fact, it seems to me that even dressage requires more athleticism than, say, prone rifle shooting. I realize that people higher up the pecking order on this site than me may have something invested in this article, so I won't make edits until there's a clarified set of criteria for this article.--DTSavage 20:46, 9 August 2012 (EDT)

You raise excellent points. What is the criteria for separating the legitimate from the joke sports, or for including an event in the Olympics? Why isn't golf an Olympic sport?
I've added "underlying purpose" to the sport as a criterion. More insights are welcome.--Andy Schlafly 00:13, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
What is the underlying purpose of any sport? CasparRH 10:26, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Golf will return to the Olympics in 2016. RayM 00:18, 10 August 2012 (EDT) It was also contested at the 1900 and 1904 Summer Olympic Games. GregG 01:23, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

I think this entire article is in violation of Conservapedia Commandments #1 ("Everything you post must be true and verifiable") and #5 ("Do not post personal opinion on an encyclopedia entry"). CasparRH 10:32, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

With regards to our Fifth Commandment, I agree. Perhaps an administrator would like to move this page to the Essay pseudonamespace. GregG 11:43, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
"Citius, Altius, Fortius" would be a good stating point for the criteria I think - sports that do not have an element of the Olympic motto would need a good reason to not be on this list, although most team sports would not satisfy this test AlanA 11:49, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
I think that a good test is that there shouldn't already be another, similar sport with a stronger tradition and more credibility. That would exclude recent additions like beach volleyball.
Related to this, it's chiefly the multiplicity of similar events that undermine swimming's credibility, so "one event testing one set of athletic abilities" might be a good way to phrase it.--CPalmer 12:07, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
I agree with AlanA and CPalmer, but there is a difference between saying a sport should be excluded from the Olympics and saying that it is a "joke sport". CasparRH 14:28, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

After Mr. Schlafly's recent edit comment, "women's martial arts removed from the list - martial arts are legitimate self-defense pursuits," I gather that his main criterion for a non-joke sport is that it has some "legitimate" real-world analogue. If this is so, it should be affirmed and applied to this article. I don't agree with the premise, but it could serve to make this alleged encyclopedia page something more that mere opinion. CasparRH 19:43, 12 August 2012 (EDT)

As with every article based on one of his "insights," the criteria are simply "does ASchlafly think it so"? RayM 19:46, 12 August 2012 (EDT)
Hence my comment that I don't agree with the premise. There is no general principle that sports, to be "legitimate", must be analogous to some real-world activity. (Sidebar: How long until both of us are banned?) CasparRH 19:52, 12 August 2012 (EDT)

Dressage

I wonder if the editor who listed dressage as a joke sport is aware of the history behind the sport? It developed over centuries of military training and tactics for the cavalry, when horse and rider needed to move in harmony with each other during battle. Just because it has become a rich man's sport in today's society does not erase its meaningful history - it certainly wasn't a "joke" to thousands of cavalrymen. A Brief Outline of the History of Dressage by Dr. Thomas Ritter. SharonW 00:22, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

I'm going to remove it from the list, until someone can come up with a realistic reason it should be on here. SharonW 09:35, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
Because, for all intents and purposes, there's very little difference between dressage and Crufts, and I don't see many dog events at the Olympics?--CGrande 09:41, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
I said a logical reason, thanks. SharonW 09:43, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
Technically you said a realistic reason. Dressage is about training between man and beast so said beast will do what you command, this is the same as some of the events at Crufts. There's no racing as a test of speed or rider's abilities. On that level I can't see any difference.--CGrande 09:46, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
Racing or speed are not necessary components in a competition. As for not testing the rider's skill? Seriously, you're being absolutely ridiculous. The whole event is about showing the rider's skill in directing the horse through its movements. While I haven't participated in dressage myself, I have been around horses and riders enough to know that including dressage on this page is the joke created by a bunch of envious, armchair quarterbacks. If you can't do the activity, then don't open your mouth to criticize. SharonW 09:54, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Just because it's hard to do doesn't make it a serious sport. Ballet is hard to do. So is playing the 'cello. Neither of those are sports. Just because it has a long history doesn't make it a serious sport. It is an elitist activity that the average sports fan cares nothing about. RayM 10:02, 10 August 2012 (EDT)


Alright, go ahead. Disparage these athletes all you want. I have my doubts that any editor who has contributed to this page could compete in any of these "joke sports" on an Olympic level. It sounds like sour grapes to me. SharonW 10:16, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

That's a sore loser's argument. Do you limit your opinions to those things you can do at an elite level? That would mean not having preferences about most things in the world, unless you are so gifted that you can compose poetry, play jazz piano, paint, sculpt, figure skate, design a building and cook at the level of the best in the world. Which none of us can. Just because a person can't do something doesn't mean they can't have an informed opinion about it. RayM 10:23, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
I have yet to see an "informed opinion" on any of the sports listed on this page. What I see is a bunch of editors who think it's fun to disparage hard-working athletes for their own amusement. SharonW 10:27, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
Welcome to Conservapedia. It's what ASchlafly does. RayM 11:00, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
Why do you add to it if you don't agree with the premise? SharonW 11:06, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Greco-Roman wrestling

I removed Greco-Roman wrestling from the list. All wrestling styles have their particular rules, but that doesn't make them not a real sport. Saying it artifically prohibits the match is like saying hurdles is not a real sport since it hinders running. If anything, the role of throws requires more strength to compete properly. PaulRP 10:14, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

I agree - Graeco-Roman wrestling requires strength, technique and flexibility, as well as guile, and is one of the purest sports contested at the Olympics. Some people do like to joke about wrestling, but that in itself doesn't make it a joke sport.--CPalmer 10:31, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
However, compare it to freestyle wrestling, also an Olympic Sport, but with far fewer restrictions on how athletes can show their abilities at that particular skill to their best, and it does come across as a joke sport.--CGrande 11:12, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
You could say them same about boxing and freestyle (or folkstyle for that matter). If I was allowed to punch my opponent, I would have been a much better wrestler in high school. But not being able to punch them doesn't make it a joke. Just a different sport. PaulRP 15:50, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Table tennis

Have you actually watched any of the table tennis matches? The skills required to compete in this event - the quickness, agility, perspicacity - are at least equal to those in regular tennis. CasparRH 10:29, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

This article is too negative and unnecessary

This article is too negative. For example, while there are martial art systems (or self-defense systems) which are better than taekwondo when it comes to self-defense[1][2], it can get you into great shape - especially if the twaekwondo center has a weight room. When I was involved in taekwondo, I enjoyed it and found it beneficial. Plus, when I was playing racketball without googles (which I should not have done), using a block I learned in taekwondo, I stopped a ball from hitting my face inches before it was about to hit me. :) The only potential downside I see to twaekwondo is that full contact sparring could potential cause brain damage as many medical doctors are against boxing for example and boxers can become "punch drunk".[3][4]

Although there are less toxic forms of keeping pools clean than chlorine[5], swimming is great exercise and there is nothing wrong with the backstroke or relay races.

Soccer is great and inexpensive way to exercise and it probably keeps more people in shape than any sport in the world due to its popularity in the world.

There is no public outcry to remove these sports from the Olympics. Women enjoy synchronized swimming and rhythmic gymnastics for example.

I think this article is a wet blanket and a sour grapes way of minimizing others achievements.Conservative 10:55, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

I'm not sure ASchlafly will agree with you. It was his idea, after all, and fits in with his basic orientation towards focusing on finding negative outcomes. RayM 10:59, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
We agree on this, User:Conservative. SharonW 11:08, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
User:Conservative, I recommend using Firefox to make your posts. It has a spell-check facilility, which would help you spot typos such as the amusing "twaekwondo".
Other than that, how could a "joke sports" article not be negative? Perhaps by talking up the humor content of the sports involved???
Thirdly, you are right that there is nothing wrong with relay races, but swimming relays are not proper relays, as has been explained above. Backstroke is absurd - it's slower than crawl and more tiring than breast stroke, so what's the point of it, unless you're scared to put your face in the water?--CPalmer 11:10, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
Actually, people are wrong when they state swimming relays are not proper relays - there is strategy involved (fastest swimmer first, last? where to place the slowest swimmer?), and precise timing is needed during the exchange. As for the backstroke being absurd - how about testing the athlete's endurance? Not everything needs to be flashy and fast in order to be a competition. SharonW 11:17, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
Sharon, This is already being discussed above, at the end of the section headed "Female version of sports". Your post would be better off up there, where more informed people than I will see and respond to it.--CPalmer 11:48, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

CPalmer, I typed out taekwondo correctly 1 out 3 times. :). Secondly, Firefox does not have taekwondo in its spellcheck dictionary. :) Conservative 11:22, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

CPalmer, as far as the backstroke, one of the principles of good exercise is working out all your muscles. Also, if the backstroke is more tiring than a breastroke as you say, that is a good indication it is giving someone a good workout. Given your approval of this article, I can only assume you may be a cranky old man who calls the police on kids making too much noise bouncing their basketballs!!! I rest my case that this article is a wet blanket article!!!! Conservative 11:31, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
I do not doubt backstroke's utility as a workout for lane-blocking old granddads, but a good workout does not necessarily make a good sport. Olympic toe-touching, for instance, or exercise biking, would certainly be seen as joke sports, were they to be added to the program.--CPalmer 11:44, 10 August 2012 (EDT)


swimming medleys

I removed swimming medleys. The author of that particular edit was wondering what the track comparison would be, and the answer there is the pentathlon, heptathlon, decathlon, etc.--DTSavage 12:05, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Not really. Multi-event athletics competitions require the athlete to do multiple different things, without specifying how. Swimming medleys, by contrast, require the swimmer to do the same thing in four different ways. If the decathlon included 100m running, 100m walking, 100m backwards running and 100m rolling then your argument would stand up better.
I would support a swimming pentathlon that included short, medium and long-distance swims, plus springboard and platform diving, but that would require more genuine versatility than is possessed by most if not all competitive swimmers as far as I know.--CPalmer 12:10, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
So I gotta ask, CPalmer, what sports do you play? how many of those might be considered "joke" sports. I know people who swim competitively, one in the backstroke, which you disparage, two in medleys. They're no joke. Because I need to go to work in about ten minutes, I'm not going to get into any kind of edit war here, I just wish you'd stop being so bitter and accept that people can have amazing sporting achievement EVEN IN EVENTS THAT YOU DON'T LIKE. Isn't that amazing? --DTSavage 12:21, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
I am not saying that a gold medal in backstroke isn't an impressive achievement. I'm saying that it shouldn't be an Olympic event because it's a silly stroke for competitive purposes.
I don't play any sports competitively, but I play recreational football, tennis and darts. I do not think that darts should be an Olympic sport, however.--CPalmer 12:27, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
By the way, you knowing people who compete in these events does not in itself stop them from being joke events. If you mean that "they're no joke" because your friends take them extremely seriously, please consider the possibility that to others, that may make them more and not less absurd.--CPalmer 12:29, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
I think I can see where you're coming from. I still disagree, but if you're using those criteria, then shouldn't you also include breast-stroke and butterfly? They're both less efficient than freestyle/crawl. Breast at least has some use apart from a competition environment, but butterfly seems totally useless. If you want those particular criteria, then please be consistent with them.--DTSavage 12:34, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
I agree about butterfly, and breast stroke, and walking races on dry land. For Olympic purposes, I think 100m, 200m, 400m and a longer distance, plus relays, for men and women, would be a sensible swimming program - say 12 gold medals in all, so far more than are available for archery or horse riding.
Breast stroke has a case for inclusion, but the trouble is that the breast stroke performed competitively bears little resemblance to the steady, effort-conserving stroke that is so useful in real life.--CPalmer 12:43, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Quite honestly, the purpose behind sports is not to entertain the spectators, or to make money for the sponsors, or to worry about how you as an athlete will appear to others. The point behind sports when you're an athlete is to challenge yourself to do as well as you possibly can, and if you're on a team, to aid and push your teammates to do their best as well. The purpose behind sports as a spectator is to camaraderie, and enjoyment. Today's society has lost sight of the meaning of sportsmanship, and I hate to say this, but this page proves it by nitpicking and complaining about the sports listed. SharonW 12:51, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

'but this page proves it by nitpicking and complaining about the sports listed." ASchlafly would call that "nitpicking" a "conservative insight." Why do you expect otherwise from this site? RayM 13:16, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
Why do you, and others, push the point when you don't agree with it? SharonW 14:32, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Backstroke Not an inefficient, silly stroke

A common and important part of swimming training is lifesaving and a version of the backstroke is used for lifesaving.[6]

Inefficiency can depend on context. Conservative 13:54, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Thanks, Conservative. I'd given up arguing about it. SharonW 14:31, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

A thought

It seems to me like this is not really an encyclopedic entry. Could we make this an Essay, so it can still be thought about and debated, but we don't dilute the true encyclopedic entries? PaulRP 15:55, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

"The true encyclopedic entries"? RayM 16:01, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
Everything in those articles is verifiable and true. It is not my fault that there are atheists who are ok with extreme animal "loving". The Department of Motor vehicles in all jurisdictions refuse to give driver's licenses to animals. But in the lala land of atheism and evolutionism, humans are beasts. Conservative 19:33, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

Curling at the 2010 Winter Olympics

I hope nobody claims that curling should not have been at the 2010 Winter Olympics and that it as inserted by Canadians trying to pad their gold medals!!!  :) Curling was one of the popular sports at the Olympics. [7] At the 2006 Olympics, curling drew 5 million television viewers which was more than ice hockey and figure skating.[8] Those guys with brooms really swept in the television ratings! :) Conservative 16:27, 10 August 2012 (EDT)

I truly used to consider curling a joke sport, mainly because it looked funny, with the brooms and whatnot. When I realized what the brooms actually did to control the stone's direction, it was no longer a joke to me. In fact, it is my favorite sport next to ice hockey at the Winter Games. WesleySHello! 20:46, 12 August 2012 (EDT)
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