Talk:Joseph Stalin

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"forced women to work in factories just like men" - Is the intent of this to say that women should not be working in factories and/or holding jobs that men hold? I would think that idea is somewhat passe now. The fragment should be removed from the article.--Dave3172 23:22, 7 March 2007 (EST)

The statement is factual and I see no reason to delete. The reader can decide for himself whether forcing women to work in factories just like men is a good thing. --Aschlafly 23:24, 7 March 2007 (EST)
I would think that anyone would agree that coercing anyone to work isn't a good thing. But the "just like men" part is opinion, not fact. That is what should be removed.--Dave3172 23:48, 7 March 2007 (EST)

Contents

Stalin's death

Following a stroke on 1 March 1953, Stalin died

Stalin may have actually been assassinated by other members of the Politburo who feared another 1938 style-purge growing out of the Doctor's Plot. RobS 17:49, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Odd conclusion

The article says,

Most of this, however, was pure propaganda ... Soviet growth was impressive. Between 1929 and 1937, 8,000 factories were constructed, average GDP growth was around 10%

Which of those two statements is true? Was it "pure propaganda," or a successful campaign of industrial development? -Harmil 12:25, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Purges

I removed someone's addition of the subplot of Stalin's Okhranka file because it was tangential to the overview of the purges and too specific for this article. It should form its own entry if valid.

I would suggest, if you think it is important, not to remove accurate additional information added by RobS, a sysop, and instead perhaps give it a sub-head, instead of just dumping enlightening information, that goes to their state of mind. Do you have some suggestions for this, other than making an entirely new article on this deal? --₮K/Talk 22:45, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Motives

Xgood, please work with me to develop your ideas on Stalin's motives. --Ed Poor Talk 16:31, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

Tsaritsyn spelled wrong in the introduction

It currently says Tsaritsen, while correctly the town is spelled Tsaritsyn or Tsaritsin (Царицин in Russian).SimonW 11:53, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Lead

There should be an end parenthesis after his name in Cyrillic, and the Cyrillic name shouldn't be italicized (though I'm not entirely sure on the latter point). --sam(m)y 13:27, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Also, although it's more common to transliterate the Cyrillic letters de and zhe as two distinct letters, the name "Джугашвили" is more often rendered with a J in English (i.e., Jugashvili). --sam(m)y 13:56, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Additional Information

I'm studying the period in history at the moment-- most notably, the differences between Lenin and Stalin. Could I add, for example, that Stalin was a hardline believer in family values, as he altered the soviet school system to reflect this? Or could I add that he re-initiated the persecution of homosexuals?

I'm not trying to be contrary or anything, I'm honestly not sure whether to add these things-- they're facts, but they're elements of conservative ideology that you might not want associated with Stalin. -- Dollfuss.

  • I would say you need to study at greater length, rather than post something so absurd. This is the danger of all students, reading something that might be factual, and accepting it as "truth" when in reading more, understanding more, one would realize that is isn't really the truth at all. Many things, in one context can be truthful, however taken in the greater, historical context, have entirely a different meaning or truth. "Persecution" of Homosexuals, given the times and overwhelming world view of the time, wasn't persecution as we know it today. You cannot judge historical events in today's accepted context. That is called revisionist history. --₮K/Admin/Talk 20:56, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Simon Sebag Montefiore

I am really rather surprised that no one has used Simon Sebag Montefiore's recent bestseller "Young Stalin" as a source for this article. There are a large number of urban legends about Stalin's life prior to 1917. For more than a decade, Mr. Montefiore has been examining thousands of pages of formerly classified documents and memoirs from the former Soviet Union. He has also tracked down and interviewed the descendants of the many illegitimate children who Stalin fathered prior to the Revolution. It is all there in black and white, including how and why Stalin lost his faith in the Christian God, the Atheistic subculture which he encouraged in the seminary in Tbilisi, and the many criminal activities which he used to finance Lenin's Bolsheviks. It is a vital source which should be used extensively by conservative historians, as it reveals just how and why the Bolsheviks defeated both the Tsar's Secret Police and the Provisional Government of Aleksandr Kerensky. If we are to compete successfully with Wikipedia, we must not deal in urban legends. Unfortunately, the Stalin article here seems to have been doing exactly that. Kingstowngalway 17:59, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Well, you are an editor here, no? Propose what you would like added, post it here, and if no objection, move on to adding the bits to the article, with citation, of course. --₮K/Admin/Talk 18:57, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Well, for one thing, the section describing Stalin as an Okhrana informant definitely needs a complete overhaul. Mr. Sebag Montefiore deals at length with this in his book. He cites both the evidence for and against the rumors of Stalin's Okhrana ties. At the time of his alleged "treason," Stalin was actually one of the Bolshevik movement's top intelligence men and was charged with trying to recruit Okhrana men as informants. According to Montefiore, the Okhrana ordered the agents Stalin approached to feed him false information in hopes of creating an internal war within the Bolshevik Movement. This, and the subsequent exposal of Okhrana spy Roman Malinovsky, made Stalin so unspeakably paranoid that decades after the Revolution he was still certain that he was surrounded by traitors. This was the real reason for the Purge of 1937. Kingstowngalway 22:14, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

Possible Quotes to be Added

  • "Before your eyes, rises the hero of Gogol's story who, in a fit of abberation, imagined that he was the King of Spain. Such is the fate of all megalomaniacs."

--Joseph Stalin, Proletariatis Brdzola, August 1905. Quoted by Simon Sebag Montefiore, Young Stalin, page 376.Kingstowngalway 19:14, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

  • "God's not unjust, he doesn't actually exist. We've been deceived. If God existed, he'd have made the world more just... I'll lend you a book and you'll see."

--A teenaged Stalin after reading The Origin of Species by Charles Darwin. Quoted by Simon Sebag Montefiore, Young Stalin, page 49.Kingstowngalway 19:30, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

  • "Comrade Koba told you that we were against you and demanded your sacking from the Committee, but I promise you nothing of the sort happened and everything Koba told you was a malicious lie! Yes: a calumny to discredit us! I just wonder at the man's impudence. I know how worthless he is, but I didn't expect such 'courage.' But it turns out that he'll use any means if he thinks the ends justify them. The end in this case - the ambition - is to present himself as a great man before the nation. But... God didn't grant him the right gifts, so he has to resort to intrigues, lies and other 'bagatelles.' Such a filthy person wanted to pollute our sacred mission with sewage!"

--Georgian Menshevik Noe Khomeriki in a 1904 letter to a member of the Social Democratic Central Committee for the Caucausus region. Simon Sebag Montefiore, Young Stalin, page 125.Kingstowngalway 19:30, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

  • "Does Djilas, who is himself a writer, not know what human suffering and the human heart are? Can't he understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometers through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman or takes some trifle?"

--In response to complaints about the rapes and looting commited by the Red Army during the Second World War. Milovan Djilas, Conversations with Stalin, page 95.Kingstowngalway 09:03, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

Last name

Stalin's real last name was Dzhugashvili, it was edited out but it should be put back. Right now, the article states that his real name was "Josif Vissarionovich", which means "Josif son of Vissarion"; Vissarionovich isn't the first of two last names, it's a patronym, and as such it cannot replace the last name. --MarcoT 16:45, 10 June 2010 (EDT)

Link to his Experiments?

Someone creates an article specifically related to Joseph Stalin and his ape-men experiments, but there's no mention of it here. Why is that? ~ JonG ~ 02:34, 23 September 2011 (EDT)

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