Talk:Melvin F Sembler
Unless an event is common knowledge, stinging accusations need strong backup. Conservapedia isn't a soapbox for personal attacks. Sembler didn't deny the accusations and yet he's suing people who were in the program who spoke out against him? That doesn't make much sense. You'll need context. Learn together 11:03, 28 July 2007 (EDT)
- These are pretty well known accusations. Furthermore he didn't sue the kid because he was spreading lies but instead because it may harm his business interests. There have been several abuse cases brought against Sembler that have resulted in compensation payouts. Here's a couple of sources that I'm adding.
- , blanket site set up for alleged victims of the abuse, contains testimonies, reports and links to media stories
- , general story on the history of the Sembler organisation and the accusations against it
- , archive of Fox News story on the incidents
- , another site that details the allegations of abuse
- , NGO's information on the abuse allegations (scroll down to Straight)
- These are just a few site's you'll come across with a quick investigation into the matter. I'm not saying that every one of the accusations is accurate, but the fact is they are extensive and wide known. EQ 19:34, 28 July 2007 (EDT)
Sorry, but upon spending more time looking into this, I find that those are sites with little overall backing. Checking up the man on the internet, it is hard to find any general scandal against his reputation. He graduated 12,000 people and received praise from Nancy Reagan and Princess Diana. His program ran for 17 years from 1976 to 1993. All programs of that nature will have some lawsuits, but looking at the record, most of the suits are dismissed and the 'strikes' against him don't appear to be that frequent. If his record was similar to what was portrayed, he would not have continued on to have the distinguished career that he has. Learn together 20:27, 1 August 2007 (EDT)
- What do you consider a source with "backing"? I did a search for "Straight, Inc", not even "Straight abuse" or "scandal". Just the name of the company. In the order of the search engine, here's what I found:
- "Reports on various abuses in therapeutic communities, particularly Straight, Inc"
- A site FULL of articles about Straight abuse
- A place mat company
- A recoiler website (?)
- A Yahoo group sporting a "Black Ribbon is in Memory of all those who did not survive their ordeal in Straight"
- "Surviving Straight, Inc.
- A Catholic... something
- A crazy rant about various things, including Straight
- Hair care (for humans... and horses)
- A strange audio company
- So out of the top 10 sites according to a major search engine, there are 5 articles alleging abuse, 4 companies and 1 Catholic... something. NO factual sites about Straight. NO positive sites about Straight. I'm sorry, but what did you look up? I'm not saying that any of this necessarily indicates that Sembler did anything wrong, but it certainly indicates his organization did. Why are you so unwilling to allow the possiblity that something wrong went on there? And who gets to decide what sources are good enough? Jazzman831 20:56, 1 August 2007 (EDT)
I believe I stated what I had found above. Looking at the very first 'source' on your list, I don't feel terribly enlightened to hear that Melvin had a pump for a certain part of his anatomy. We try to look for the evidence here and put things in perspective. If they graduated 12,000 people and another site said that only a quarter of the total people who enrolled eventually graduated, then that's 50,000 people who went through the program. It's a tough program to break people of drugs. But if we're going to claim ongoing ritualistic abuse, then there better be hard evidence. The number of successful lawsuits, and the small proportional number of lawsuits period, would seem to indicate that view is suspect.
I also don't like this type of statement:
"Why are you so unwilling to allow the possibility that something wrong went on there?"
Do not attempt to create reality merely by claiming it. That's not what Conservapedia is about. Learn together 23:22, 1 August 2007 (EDT)
- I'm getting tired tonight, so I will wait until tomorrow to respond. In the mean time, could you please show me the sources you are using? I am a complete newcomer to Straight Inc (before my one Yahoo search) and I would like to compare both sides of the story before responding again. When I have looked through the sources (yours and mine) I will determine if I have been duped by my one-sided search results. Jazzman831 23:52, 1 August 2007 (EDT)
- I knew nothing about Straight Inc. before a couple of days ago either. The 12,000 figure comes from Sembler's biography web page. Most of the other information was actually gathered from unfriendly sources provided in the article or at the top of the talk page. The list of lawsuits and their outcomes was somewhere in one of those pages. Learn together 01:46, 2 August 2007 (EDT)