Talk:Mystery:Did a Fake Fidel Castro Meet the Pope?

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Body Doubles

Castro was well known to have body doubles available in case of an emergency. Seeing as he was in such poor health a few years ago, and is now well enough to see the Pope, it is only logical to conclude that it probably isn't the same guy. http://libertarianalliance.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/dead-castros-body-double-looking-moderately-healthy/

OllieB 20:29, 28 March 2012 (EDT)

The beard in the photos released today for the purported Fidel Castro is also slightly different from Castro's.--Andy Schlafly 20:36, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
So you can't think of any seriously ill person who recovered somewhat in a mere six years? Sorry, this is daft. What evidence would it take to convince some people that Castro is still alive? Is there anything that won't be dismissed as a fake?
People can shrink several inches as they age, by the way. Castro was 6'3" when he was young; Ratzinger is 5'7" NOW. And my beard is slightly different to how it was last week because I trimmed it on Saturday, like I do every week, to look smart in church. --SamCoulter 20:40, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
Actually, the Pope would have shrunk by more than Castro, I think. And do you think the shape of a nose changes from sloping slightly upward to sloping downward in just a few years?!--Andy Schlafly 20:42, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
What I think is that the nose in these photos is exactly the same shape as the nose in a 2003 photo of Castro. As for the pope, as I said he is 5'7" now. --SamCoulter 20:46, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
Castro has a long history of using body doubles. It is unlikely that Havana would simply stop using them once he died. Or perhaps you think that the Cuban government wants Castro-lookalikes roaming the streets of Havana! Ridiculous! OllieB 20:50, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
I don't see why not. The main reason that dictators use body doubles is to hide their movements or act as a decoy for potential assassins. Neither of these uses is much help to a dead man. The fact is that there is no evidence whatsoever that Castro is dead, but multiple photos and videos of him and records of several meetings in the last two years with individuals including the pope and the president of Brazil. Sure, they could all be body doubles, but you can say the same for anyone. Actors also use body doubles. I can claim right now that Clint Eastwood died in 1968 and every appearance by him since then has really been a body double. By your criteria, how are you going to disprove it? --SamCoulter 20:55, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
If you display a photo of a man a half-foot shorter than Clint Eastwood with a differently shaped nose, and lacking in other facial features, as the Miami Herald just published with respect to the alleged Fidel Castro, then that would disprove it. Surely you're not claiming that photo identification is impossible.--Andy Schlafly 21:58, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
I don't see this difference in nose shape you're talking about and in the photos it's clear that Castro is several inches taller than Ratzinger. I've checked several photos of Castro and his various facial markings look identical to those in the latest photos. In any case there's no evidence that Castro is dead and I don't understand your insistence that he is. --SamCoulter 23:13, 28 March 2012 (EDT)
The man in the picture looks like Fidel Castro to me. He seems quite hunched over, which would explain why he doesn't tower over the pope.
Additionally, it must be quite hard to find a lookalike for an 80-year-old. Cuba is not a large or wealthy country, so how many 80-year-olds could they possibly have to choose from? The probability that they would have a plausible Castro lookalike capable of fooling the pope and his retinue seems low to me - perhaps less than 1%.--CPalmer 06:49, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Straight from Weekly World News

Could a communistic state pull such a stunt? Maybe. But there are many obstacles:

  • How many conspirators are there? Nurses, doctors, make-up artists etc.
  • You give power to a random character, something dictators don't like very much. And you allow this character to meet the pope!

Aschlafly, this claim is as sane as the claim that Elvis is ALIVE!!!1!1! - and your case isn't any more convincing! In fact, you are looking like a lunatic quoting from Weekly World News. You had a hunch, and no reasonable evidence in the world will change your position! What does this say about your open-mindedness? This is almost as bad as your stance against physical reality at E=mc².

AugustO 07:58, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Height

To me Castro looks significantly taller, easily the difference between 6'3" and 5'7". Look at the picture of both men seated: http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/03/28/15/16/86-OZ0Nk.St.55.jpg . The standing photos are consistent with tall older men whose posture begins to deteriorate. I can't speak to the other inconsistencies but I think we should be wary of confirmation bias.KingHanksley 12:36, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Yes

FrancisB52 14:13, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

No

I am not convinced that the real Fidel Castro is dead. With that said, to assume it is him and not question it, is to remain closed-minded and spoon-fed. Secretive groups like Communists, I think the phrase is Trust but Verify. --Jpatt 14:41, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Agreed. It's certainly possible that Castro is dead and it would be closed-minded to rule it out completely, but let's face it: there's no actual reason to think he is and for a dead guy he's not exactly been shy about his public appearances the last couple of years. --SamCoulter 14:52, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
Exactly. Personally I think Andrew Schlafly was murdered two years ago by a liberal godless homosexual and, to guarantee the survival of the encyclopedia, Conservative replaced him with a lookalike who thinks and writes exactly like he did. Prove me wrong! Baobab 17:17, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

"he's not exactly been shy about his public appearances the last couple of years"??? Fidel Castro has not appeared in public since the frail man had a very serious operation in a Cuban hospital about six years ago.--Andy Schlafly 17:41, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Yes he has. He met Cristina Kirchner in 2009. He spoke to the National Assembly in August 2010, and I think they might have recognised him. In September 2010 he spoke to a crowd outside the presidential palace. He publicly launched his memoirs this February. He's also made a couple of appearances on Cuban TV and met the presidents of Venezuela and Brazil. To say he hasn't appeared in public since 2006 is just wrong. Admittedly you can say that all those appearances were body doubles, but then you're just making an unfalsifiable argument: no evidence will change your mind. --SamCoulter 18:01, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
I have an open mind about this. Do you have a link for your best claim above? I don't think the alleged meetings with the presidents of Venezuela and Brazil were public appearances.--Andy Schlafly 20:10, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
Here is an article from the conservative Daily Telegraph about Castro launching his memoirs, with video. --SamCoulter 20:16, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
And here is a photo of Castro with Kirchner in 2009. --SamCoulter 20:21, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
Here is Castro visiting Hugo Chavez in hospital last June. --SamCoulter 20:30, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
Fidel Castro is alive. While it is true that Soviet communist governments lied about the health of their leaders [1], to stubbornly stick to the notion that Fidel Castro is dead or probably dead is pointless at this time. I don't think the proclamation that he is dead or probably dead should have been made in the first place. Conservative 20:45, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
"Conservative" Daily Telegraph? Perhaps you're joking now. Regardless, the link I checked from your postings was not a public appearance.--Andy Schlafly 20:41, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
Well it's right-wing, pro-USA, pro-Israel, pro-Christianity and anti-homosexual marriage, so I'm not sure what else I would call it. Anyway, the video showed Castro speaking to a large room full of people, which certainly seems public to me. The same article has a link to another talk by Castro the same day, about the Falkland Islands. --SamCoulter 20:53, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
Fidel called me today and bitterly complained about the Conservapedia atheism article which currently ranks #5 for atheism at Google Cuba. :) [2] I told him, "Hasta la vista" and then hung up on him. :) Conservative 20:54, 29 March 2012 (EDT)
Several of the communists in the "public" meeting Sam refers to above were probably Fidel's golfing buddies, and perhaps they all scored holes-in-one too in a round of golf with Fidel recently!!--Andy Schlafly 22:31, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

Do you love being told your wrong?

King Solomon wrote: "Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you." - Proverbs 9:8

Pastor C. J. Maheney wrote: "Since God often uses the criticism of others to reveal the idols of our hearts and to accelerate our growth in humility, pastors should be eager to receive criticism. I should be eager to receive correction, but usually I’m not. And it’s no mystery why I’m not eager to receive criticism—I’m a proud man."[3]

Andy, if memory serves and I believe it does, in the early days of this wiki you said that you hate being shown your wrong or something very similar to that. Do you love being shown your wrong?

Here is an excellent sermon give at the I'll Be Honest YouTube Christian YouTube channel: Accepting correction

Conservative 18:56, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

(your wrong > you're wrong) Baobab 09:20, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

His Castroness is alive

In my opinion I believe Castro to be alive, for several reasons. First, he's wilyer that a coyote with a subscription to Acme; he knows how to stay alive. Second, he sends out for his doctors, so why should he risk the Cuban health care system when there's a better way to do it just a phone call away to an overseas location?

Third, and most important, they didn't parade his corpse about the country yet. Liberal, leftist commie societies, having lost any respect for God and the Ten Commandments, have a habit of fawning over their dear leaders so much that it breaks the first two commandments on the list. Think of how they reacted to Che's burial; lot's of tears (or was it drool?) involved. Think of Lenin (mummified and displayed); Stalin (ditto); Ho Chi whatever, Chairman Mao, the pair of Kim's (served under glass); and any one of the post-Stalin Russian pinkos who just had to be reported dead before the stench of decomposition informed the public before Pravda could.

Yes, His Fidelness is very much alive, because if he were dead every liberal in LaLa Land and beyond would weep and wail before that cigar-chomping commie would be reduced to room temperature. Karajou 11:32, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

But in Cuba Fidel's politically weaker brother Raul wanted to take and hold power. In addition, Republicans were in the White House at the time (2006) and Cuban exiles in Florida would have called for open elections if Fidel's passing had been announced. Raul had an enormous incentive not to announce that Fidel had passed away.--Andy Schlafly 11:52, 30 March 2012 (EDT)
Republicans and Cuban exiles have been rightly calling for open elections in Cuba for a long time. However I don't think Cuba cares very much. The fact is there is no reason to think Castro is dead. --SamCoulter 14:40, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

Liberal Media

Presumably the liberal American media couldn't have known in advance that Cuba would have used a fake Castro, right? They weren't clamoring for the Pope to meet the fake Castro, they were clamoring for the Pope to meet the real Castro. The Cuba media (communist media) wasn't clamoring for it in the first place. So I'm not sure what the point of invoking that is. Gregkochuconn 09:28, 1 April 2012 (EDT)

Smart folks in the liberal American media know that Cuba is probably using a fake Fidel Castro. If nothing else, leftists know how much other leftists rely on deceit. A careful review of liberal media articles about Fidel Castro shows that they are cautious in how they report about him, lest the truth leak out and embarrass them. Hence there are no calls by the liberal media for Obama to meet Fidel Castro.--Andy Schlafly 11:14, 1 April 2012 (EDT)
That is because the US does not engage in diplomatic relations with Cuba, and has not for more than 50 years. This is basic US history. MikeGardner 15:41, 1 April 2012 (EDT)
Bill Clinton, while president, met with Fidel Castro. [4] Why isn't the liberal media asking Barack Obama to do likewise???--Andy Schlafly 15:45, 1 April 2012 (EDT)
Well, according to that article, Clinton's meeting was brief, unplanned and nonsubstantive and yet still led to criticism from anti-Castro groups and forced the White House to state officially that no change in policy was intended. Given the backlash following such an innocuous event, I, for one, am not at all surprised that no one is asking for Obama to meet with Cuban leaders. JustinD 16:54, 1 April 2012 (EDT)
There's also the fact that while Clinton was President, Castro was the leader of Cuba. Now he isn't. If a US President meets any Castro it should be Raul. Leaders who visit the UK don't meet Margaret Thatcher or John Major; they meet David Cameron. --SamCoulter 17:00, 1 April 2012 (EDT)

Photo

A photo might be nice here. Anyone have one? Gregkochuconn 10:27, 6 April 2012 (EDT)

February 2013

And what about this video. Is this the real Fidel Castro or also his body-double?--JoeyJ 13:30, 28 July 2014 (EDT)

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