Talk:Mystery:Do Sports Affect Sexual Preference?
What about John Amaechi ---user:DLerner--- 20:58, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- Fine, that's one, and his example undermines Murray's claim below. One out of over 10,000 is less than 0.01%.--Aschlafly 21:21, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- No it doesn't. As you know, counterexamples don't disprove anything. But Amaechi is hardly alone. There's Esera Tuaolo, Roy Simmons, Jerry Smith and David Kopay (NFL), Billy Bean and Glenn Burke (MLB). Tuaolo's coming out, after he retired, led to plenty of interviews with current NFL players, many of whom said essentially that anyone who came out while playing in the NFL would be harmed by teammates. Tim Hardaway made similar comments when Amaechi came out. Murray 22:03, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- Jim Barnett (wrestling)
- Billy Bean (Baseball)
- Mark Bingham (Rugby)
- Glenn Burke (Baseball)
To name a few ---user:DLerner--- 22:23, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- Right, and the source in the entry names the "few". It's less than a dozen out of more than 10,000. That is much less than 0.1%.--Aschlafly 22:28, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
Aggression-based sports encourage and reward aggression, while passive behavior is discouraged. People who play aggression-based sports develop more aggressive personalities than they would otherwise, and it is logical to expect that to carry over into sexual preference.
So, there are no aggressive gays? Well, another stereotype confirmed! You heard it hear first ladies and gentlemen!
- See point 6 in liberal logic. It's remarkable how often that fallacy is repeated by liberals.--Aschlafly 21:19, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- Oy. Get a sense of humor please! ---user:DLerner--- 21:48, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- This is just silly. It's not much of a mystery - homosexuality is less welcome in all-male locker rooms, and it is likely that there are plenty more gay professional athletes who keep quiet because they fear how their teammates would react. There's no way to know how many gay men there are in professional sports. Murray 21:03, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- There are over 10,000 retired professional athletes. Your denial doesn't apply to them.--Aschlafly 21:19, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- Agreed with Murray (in fact, I got edit conflicted on the way of saying just that). The data is based on self-identification, and while things may be better now, I can understand people in football/etc. teams who keep their sexual preferences a secret. Sure, some will come out and admit it, but I expect them to be a minority. See also this snippet from the first source:
|“||Back then, gay athletes felt compelled to keep quiet, fearing hostile locker rooms and coaches who might cut them from the team.||”|
- The problem is that the conclusion is based on unreliable data. Aggression-based sports don't magically keep people straight - they will simply make them afraid of admitting their preferences.
- About the retired players: Not everybody suddenly goes on air, announcing they're gay. Why should they? You're still basing your "mystery" on self-identification (or lack thereof, in this case). You are working under the assumption that the data you got is 100% reliable and that everybody will have reported "the truth" by now. Sorry, but no. And your retired guys grew up in a time where being gay was met with more hostility, so that's one more incentive for them to not suddenly go against their decades of bad experience. --JBrown 21:29, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- Your quote is referring to decades ago. The facts are that homosexual athletes do self-identify and there is no evidence that significant numbers of them are afraid to. Women athletes have the same locker-room issues and they self-identify, for example. Moreover, one could go identify all the male athletes in heterosexual relationships and find that covers almost everyone.--Aschlafly 21:40, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- My quote (which comes from your source) is about the conditions those retired athletes lived in. Homosexual athletes now self-identify at a greater rate than they did before (which is the point of the first source) because the conditions changed. We are still at a turning point, though. There are still more than enough cases where you will get beaten into a pulp once your teammates come to the conclusion that you've been checking them out all those years. I wouldn't be surprised if these people engaged in heterosexual relationships to keep up the image. Wouldn't be the first time this happened, especially not when they were indoctrinated their entire life that being gay is some sort of unacceptable taboo that only happens to other, "weird" people.
- And I thought Conservapedia was against "mindless equality" and for pointing out gender differences? So why is it suddenly so hard to believe that women may be more open about such issues than men (especially when you compare them to football jocks)? Women often communicate more and better, I think.
- If you completely believe that you are correct (which you most likely do), then you indeed got a mystery, I admit that much. A mystery with the effective conclusion that aggression-based sports turn women gay and keep men straight. SOMEHOW. Right. That's a lot more believable than the "Flawed Self-Identification Data" opposition here. ;) --JBrown 21:52, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- JBrown, the data are overwhelming and the conclusion is unmistakable. But you have free will to reject it and believe what you like. Repeated participation in aggression-based sports tends to make someone more aggressive in personality and sexual preference. Duh. Logic dictates this and by an order of magnitude the data confirm it.--Aschlafly 21:58, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- "aggressive in personality and sexual preference." How is hetrosexuality an aggressive sexual preference? DanielB 23:44, 11 May 2008 (EDT)