Talk:Star Wars novels

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Encyclopedic?

Figured it was worth creating this page as the Star Wars books themselves contain themes that I figure would resonate with conservatives.

e.g.

  • A common feature of the books is that private individuals are often armed, so obviously there isn't a huge amount of gun control being enforced.
  • The main characters get married, have children, stay together.
  • The New Republic is happy enough to engage militarily when they believe it is necessary.
  • There is no abortion in the books.
  • Strong bonds of friendship, loyalty and sacrifice are shown by the good guys, etc.

Does Hollywood Liberal George Lucas need all this publicity on Consevapedia? Is there not enough rubbish about "The Star Wars" on the Internet as it is? GloriaL 11:10, 9 December 2008 (EST)

I don't know whether George Lucas is a liberal or not, but Star Wars actually contains strong conservative messages about morality and personal responsibility. It's also much more family-friendly than the majority of Hollywood films today.--CPalmer 11:18, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Blowing up planets with big laser guns is family friendly, is it? Oh and Lucas is a liberal all right: http://www.dondodd.com/publius/050202.html Do we really need to advertise his products in an encyclopaedia? GloriaL 11:23, 9 December 2008 (EST)

I was referring to the moral lessons about avoiding revenge in even the most trying circumstances - a good lesson in fortitude. Also, I don't remember any part of the Star Wars films where someone "blew up a planet with a big laser gun".
I should probably stop this discussion now - I've made my points and this isn't really my decision to make.--CPalmer 11:28, 9 December 2008 (EST)

You seem less aware of the works of your liberal hero Lucas than you let on. I've seen the first Star War film and the space station (Death Moon? Death Star?) blows up a whole planet with a big laser gun! It's there for all to see. This is a serious encyclopaedia and we shouldn't let Hollywood trivia bog it down. GloriaL 11:36, 9 December 2008 (EST)

I never claimed to love the Star Wars films, and note that I haven't contributed to any of the Star Wars articles. I was just saying that there's a moral message to take from them, which a skilled preacher could use to turn young minds in the right direction. And even if the planet-destroying scene is present in the films as you describe, I doubt such behaviour is endorsed or allowed to go unpunished.--CPalmer 11:41, 9 December 2008 (EST)

So the Star films are only to be allowed if a preacher is on-hand to de-program the youth of America who have just watched them? A fanciful notion, to be sure, but I daresay it might work! GloriaL 11:48, 9 December 2008 (EST)

It's hardly fanciful to suggest that parents should make sure that they or other suitable adults are closely involved in their children's viewing. That's the duty of any responsible parent.--CPalmer 11:56, 9 December 2008 (EST)

This is about the Star Wars books not the films. The difference - Lucas licensed the works to be published and said that particular characters couldn't be killed off and that was it. Lucas has never actually written a Star Wars book, and has deliberately avoided being a major influence in the creation of the books. As a result of this there is a very different message being portrayed in the books (apart from the film novelizations, for obvious reasons), compared to the films. Indeed, it has been a point of conflict between Star Wars fans and Lucas that Lucas didn't reference, or even try to tie in the prequel movies with what had been already been written in the books, thereby causing massive canon problems with Star Wars. In addition to that I would like you to consider the shear number of Star Wars books that have been, and continue to be, printed. Publishing, especially Sci-Fi and Fantasy publishing, is a cut-throat business with incredibly thin profit margins on each book. As a result of this, if a series or author isn't selling well it is often the case that books will be pulled before publishing, no matter how much money has been pumped into it. The fact that the number of Star Wars novels, both for adults and younger readers, numbers in the hundreds, and that it is the largest collection of novels produced for one work attests to the fact that Star Wars is a significant part of Western culture. Oh and, "Blowing up planets with big laser guns is family friendly, is it?", given that a) it's the bad guys doing it, and b) when you consider what bad guys get up to today in 'U' and 'PG' rated films today....--Ieuan 11:56, 9 December 2008 (EST)

The problem is that it's an enormous collection of trash-fiction. Why should CP have dozens of pages advertising books of no note or reputation? - Rod Weathers 11:59, 9 December 2008 (EST)

As I said, if the work didn't sell, they wouldn't continue to publish. The sheer size of the number of works says a lot about how much the public likes these works. It might not be your cup of tea, but it is others, a lot of others. It is also worth noting just how many of these works made it into the New York Times bestselling lists.--Ieuan 12:01, 9 December 2008 (EST)

That's your response? By that logic, we should fill the encyclopedia with advertising of Harlequin Romances, since they not only sell better than any other novels in existence, but are translated continually, creating an international following. CP is not a resource that advertises what the public likes. That's Wikipedia. - Rod Weathers 12:04, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Faulty analogy, I don't think that there are that many churned out slush romances that have any kind of strong conservative messages. The Star Wars novels do. The bad guys are notably bad, yet always get their comeuppance, good guys go through all kinds of trials, but emerge stronger at the end of it. There is rarely mention of casual relationships, or even long term out-of-marriage relationships, but where they do occur they tend to happen with the bad guys. Main characters (good guys) get married, have children, stay together. There is no abortion in the books, at all, and as previously mentioned, given the preponderance of armed civilians, there seems to be very little government gun control in force when the good guys are in charge. The books also stress the importance of friendship, sacrifice and loyalty, and the books also praises the spirit and strength of the Alliance armed forces, the structure and workings of which are often drawn from the US armed forces.--Ieuan 12:21, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Ah, this quote from Lucas (Total Film May 2008) should help matters:

"LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it (emphasis mine). The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..." "

Moved from Talk:The Thrawn Trilogy

My the Lord save us from all this science fiction nonsense! Is this an encyclopaedia or a sales catalogue for George Lucas's wares? And don't tell me the 'message' justifies their inclusion, please. You'll be telling me the famous porno flick Emmanuel should be included next because it shows people living together in harmony. GloriaL 11:56, 9 December 2008 (EST)

On the few days I've been at Conservapedia, I've noticed different users have different areas they like to focus on. If this user's focus is Star Wars, that's not a problem, because other users will do other things. Plus, from a search engine optimization perspective, if we have good, long articles on a niche subject, we can get high on the Google rankings for that subject and draw people to the remainder of our articles with things like this.-AlexanderM 12:02, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Then by that logic there should also be articles about bestiality and every other sickening depravity imaginable on the basis that it will drive perverted Googlers to the site! Is that niche enough for you, hmmm? Get real. GloriaL 12:10, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Wrong. If he included articles on pornography or something that's not family-friendly, it would be a different story. I'm not too fond of you dropping pornographic terms around here, either, I should add.-AlexanderM 12:14, 9 December 2008 (EST)
I fail to see the connection between a Star Wars novel and certain acts, especially given that certain acts is illegal and, last time I checked, Star Wars novels aren't, or at least aren't illegal in countries that don't have mad clergy in charge (you know the kind, the ones that could hide a badger in their beard and think that turbans are the height of fashion).--Ieuan 12:16, 9 December 2008 (EST)
Gloria has been blocked for ten minutes for troublemaking.-AlexanderM 12:17, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Sorry. I get angry sometimes. From now on I shall be all peace and light and love. GloriaL 12:56, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Star Wars might not be the best example of theofiction, but it's a decent one. I suspect that great stories (not that Star Wars is or is not one) transcend the personal weaknesses of the story-teller. --RickD 14:26, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Copy and pasting

The majority (if not all, I don't have time to check) of the star wars novel articles seem to be copy pasted from this site. Isn't this in breaking the first conservapedia commandment?--JohnD 13:46, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Where possible I'm using information such as ISBN, Publisher's summaries (which are available from publishers obviously) and information from covers of books. Where that doesn't provide enough information then I will use plot synopsis based on readers' views shown on Wookiepedia, but that is to avoid any accusation that I'm putting my own bias into the article, or writing a plot synopsis that hasn't been through somekind of vetting procedure. Oh, and incidentally, I'm a regular contributor to Wookiepedia, just under other names. Mostly I'm just trying to provide information that occurs or can be gathered from multiple sites (ISBN's for instance are an easily searchable source with the rise of the internet and search engines, Publisher's summaries are available from publishers, and the information on covers is easily found on the books, most of which I own), which is why the entries here don't contain information such as Dramtis Personae, locations, terms, vehicles, droids, etc..--Ieuan 15:38, 9 December 2008 (EST)
If you're adding content to CP that you authord on WP that's fine. To post the contributions of others from WP as original encyclopedic content here is against the CP guidelines, and those edits should be reverted. Your intentions are good, but it would be better to have original content added slowly than copying the work of others, including copyrighted material from bookjackets, even if you're crediting the sources. I'm not going to revert your edits, but please consider this and do the right thing. Thanks. --DinsdaleP 15:56, 9 December 2008 (EST)
Well I can certainly source the dustjacket and publishers' summaries, that shouldn't be a problem, and it shouldn't be too difficult to rewrite them into original works if that is necessary. There's only four books (or it might be six) that have a plot synopsis that I can remove and provide a link to. As for ISBN's, I don't think that those are copyrighted materials, but I'll check.--Ieuan 16:08, 9 December 2008 (EST)
All the articles I have looked at (I picked a few at random) are copied directly from wookiepedia. For example Dark Force Rising is exactly the same as their version. Even if you contributed to this article it has had multiple editors and would be difficult for you to claim as your own work. Moreover, all your really doing is creating a mirror of wookiepedia at conservapedia. I don't see the point in this. Surely it would be better to have a single article on star wars novels and suggest that readers visit wookiepedia for detailed information.--JohnD 16:44, 9 December 2008 (EST)

If anybody wants to look for ISBN's to reference in a book section - http://isbndb.com/

ISBN's are facts in the public domain, and can be referenced without problem. Sourcing the work of others is fine when you want to use them as a reference or quoted section of new content. Using that content verbatim as the content of a Conservapedia article, however, is inappropriate even when proper attribution is provided. It's great that you want to add Star Wars articles to this site, but it has to be done in the proper manner. Good luck. --DinsdaleP 17:15, 9 December 2008 (EST)
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