User:Benp

From Conservapedia

Might as well stop procrastinating and get started on this.

As for "harmless card games," are you suggesting that games like poker and blackjack can't help foster amorality and outright immorality? Doubtless that's why Las Vegas is such a bastion of Christian virtue and decency. I personally know of at least one incident in which a child who played one of these fantasy card games was attacked and robbed by an adult because the cards he was carrying were "rare and powerful." --Benp 10:07, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

How is that the fault of the card game? Since when do they play Magic:TG in Vegas? What does Vegas have to do with anything? -TheHeroExcelsior

You mentioned poker and blackjack as other "harmless" card games. I was pointing out exactly what kind of morality is exhibited by a town DEDICATED to such "harmless" games. It seems entirely relevant to me. --Benp 10:25, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

It's not the card games that cause the depravity. It's the gambling, drugs, booze, and prostitution that do. Stop blaming the games for the actions of the players. They do not play Magic:TG in Vegas. There is no connection. TheHeroExcelsior 10:47, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

Wait...it's not the card games, it's the gambling? The card games are the gambling! I'm sorry, but your arguments seem a little confused. --Benp 10:52, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

I learned to play poker from my grandmother, is she evil too? The player bet on the hands. You don't have to gamble to play cards. TheHeroExcelsior 11:02, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

"unless you can offer some substantiative justification for removal of this material beyond the fact that you personally play and like the game (and are thus biased,) I stand by my position that it should remain. --Benp 10:49, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

My counter is this: The article is about Liberal indoctrination, not "things that might cause liberal thinking in select instances." So stick to things that are certain to cause liberal thinking, and please remove conjecture. "Maybe" is not good enough. Where's the stuff on historic revisionism, censoring the pledge, forced sex ed, outlawing prayer? These are the things that indoctrinate children into the liberal mindset. And you want to blame a pen and paper game? TheHeroExcelsior 11:07, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

I take wine at Communion. Is my priest evil for giving it to me? No? And yet you were willing to claim that alcohol causes depravity. Of course, the exact same arguments apply to alcohol as to this game: many people enjoy it responsibly without behaving immorally as a result. Nobody forces people to drink.

Yet, you're willing to point the finger at alcohol and not at these games (which you personally play and enjoy.) I see a bit of a double standard there.

I prefer a balanced approach. I would not claim that alcohol causes depravity, but I WOULD acknowledge that it has the potential to be harmful, and I would NOT seek to remove that information from an article. Likewise, I have not claimed that D&D is some universal cause of evil and immoral behavior, but I DO acknowledge that it has the potential to be harmful. Note that I didn't put the material in this article in the first place; I'm simply objecting to your removing it with no justification.

Where IS the stuff about historic revisionism, censoring the pledge, forced sex ed, and outlawing prayer? That's an excellent question. Why not try to contribute to the article by adding these things, rather than deleting material? --Benp 11:19, 11 August 2009 (EDT)

The Blood of Christ is not alcohol, but I accept your comparison. I agree that some children may not see the difference between game and reality, but I have never met anyone under 14 who played. That is why I concede that my experience cannot be the Final Word on that. Maybe some little kids have played it and gone awry. I will conclude that D&D is only a positive or negative force if used as such. Players have free will in the game, people have free will out here. Our choices dictate our path. I am just worried that we will have to stamp a warning label on everything that might cause liberal thinking. This is my first day as a member of Conservapedia, and it was interesting. Benp, thank you for being a good adversary. You've honed my debate edge. TheHeroExcelsior 11:59, 11 August 2009 (EDT)