Debate:Does mainstream Islam endorse violence?
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The mainstream is by definition that branch of an organization which is most vocal and controls the policies of the organization. Thus we refer to the mainstream media as the most visible outlet of journalism, with the most access to the policy makers. The non-violent branch of Islam may be the numerical majority, but in terms of influence they are of no consequence, because they either fear or choose not to speak out. Teresita 17:26, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
In addition, there are countless verses in the Qur'an permitting violence against infidels: -"Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority." (Koran 3:151); this verse enjoins Muslims to violence against Christians specifically, as Mohammed incorrectly alleged that believers join 'Companions' with Allah. -"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them" (9:5). This verse, for which Osama bin Laden has thanked Allah, exhorts true Muslims to kill the so - called 'infidels' (including Christians and Jews). It also abrogates countless verses from the Meccan era in the Koran that instructed Muslims to tolerate those of other beliefs.
As much as I'd hate to agree, any Muslim that follows the Koran to the letter(or close to it) are inherently violent( or sworn to it). The Koran isn't organized by dates, but rather by length. So, contradictions start to appear, so to deal with this, Muslim Clerics claimed "sword verses". Essentially meaning, that verses later in the Koran trump earlier verses, and unfortunately the violent anti-(everyone who is Muslim) verses replaced the happy, cheerful, "We're all brothers" verses. So yes, ACTUAL Islam is extremely violent.
- main·stream /ˈmeɪnˌstrim/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[meyn-streem] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the principal or dominant course, tendency, or trend Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
- Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
By definition, you're completely wrong. --Rustyjd07 17:29, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
You confuse mainstream Islam with mainstream Muslims; although the vast majority of Mohammedans are likely peaceful, the Qur'an permits the violent conquest and subjugation of 'infidels'.
- (Curses! Rusty beat me to it. But see what I would've written) - WHAT!? "Mainstream" = "the principal or dominant course (see here). Dominant means the larger. The majority of Muslims are peaceful and contribute directly and greatly to American and European culture. By definition, too, the radical elements of a group of people are not the "mainstream."-AmesGyo! 17:31, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
In some countries, the "mainstream" attitude seems to be one of condonement. I am not sure whether that is the case in all Islamic nations (i.e. Turkey or Indonesia). One thing that we can all agree on, I hope, is that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. MountainDew 17:33, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
- Squeaky wheels and grease isn't the debate topic. Please stay on the issue at hand, else intelligent conversation is impossible. Thank you. --Rustyjd07 17:34, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
Rusty, quit being ridiculous. You know what I'm saying. MountainDew 17:35, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
- Mainstream doesn't mean nation-by-nation - it means Islam as a whole over time.-AmesGyo! 17:36, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
There's not one Islamic movement, just as there's not one Christian movement. But, as much as it is taboo to mention it--horror of horrors, to suggest that maybe one religion might be better than another--there are Islamic movements which are not at all marginal or, within the context of their societies, "extreme"--i.e., which are mainstream--and are very vocal in endorsing violence. This is just a fact, OK? It's not PC, it's just true. I suppose that, if you insist on finding some PC qualification of this, you could always make sure, whenever you acknowledge it, also to add that Christians at various times and places have been violent. --Andy 20:01, 17 November 2007 (EST)
Just a bit of information, and I could be completely wrong: Does the Islamic calendar begin when Muhammed's followers were exiled from Mecca and became a military force? CMacloud 19:05, 21 February 2008 (EST)
No way does mainstream Islam endorse violence. Only the radical few (who we all hear about in the papers) take the sections of the Koran literally about attacking/killing infidels. You don't see Indonesia (the most populous Islamic country) pumping out terrorists and constantly killing Christians/Hindus/Jews/etc. Those who believe that Islam promotes violence are sheltered in their learnings. Jrssr5 10:28, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
- Actually, indonesian muslims are constantly killing Christians. []Bohdan 18:33, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
- constantly, really? Explain that to my christian aunt, uncle and 2 cousins who lived there for 3 years. I'm sure they'd love to hear how they were constantly threatened. I was there for a time as well and received nothing but excellent treatment from the locals. Jrssr5 23:28, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
- excellent treatment, really. Explain that to me as i too spent time there and received more than a few threats. Perhaps i misstated using the word "constantly" but muslims in indonesia clearly do persecute and kill Christians, and it is false to say that they dont, no matter what your relatives tell you.Bohdan 22:15, 4 April 2007 (EDT)
No. How many Western Muslim terrorists are there? (I mean those who have lived in Western nations their whole lives). It's environment, not religion, that causes violence. Czolgolz 10:31, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
- All of the London bombers were born and raised in Britain. Look here to see all of the Western born muslim terrorists . Enjoy.Bohdan 18:40, 3 April 2007 (EDT)
It is ridiculous to claim that all/most of the followers of the second-largest religion in the world endorses violence. The Arabic word ‘Islam’ has two meanings: to submit and PEACE As It is wrong to make generalisations about for, example homosexuals or people of different backgrounds, it is also wrong to make such a wrong and strong accusation and generalisation that mainstream Muslims endorse violence. There might be a very small outspoken minority but it does not mean that mainstream Muslims have the same beliefs
- I believe it was an Irish philosopher who said that "Evil only triumphs when good men do nothing." If mainstream Islam is doing nothing to stop the extremists when they supposedly don't believe in what those extremists are doing, it is nearly as bad as actively supporting them. But not quite. CMacloud 14:48, 23 February 2008 (EST)
Islam is a pretty big thing. It has about a billion and a half adherents, about five times the population of the United States.
The United States includes Republicans and Democrats, Timothy McVeigh and Martin Luther King, Unitarians and Seventh-Day Adventists, members of the Crips and members of Habitat for Humanity, vegetarians and gun lobbyists, the ACLU and Focus on the Family. America includes violence and America includes apple pie. I like to think apple pie is more mainstream.
Would you care to sum up "mainstream America" in a short, facile generalization? I wouldn't. And I know a lot more about America than I do about Islam.
Hey, I didn't know what Shi'ites and Sunnis were until five years ago. And I barely know them now. (Saddam Hussein was a Sunni, but was he a "mainstream" Sunni? Quick, without looking it up: is Al-Qaeda Sunni or Shi'ite?)
I'm not sure how many of the pundits writing newspaper columns in English the topic can speak Arabic.
I for one sure don't know whether "mainstream Islam endorses violence." Dpbsmith 19:39, 5 April 2007 (EDT)
Mainstream Islam... how many people are Muslims? And how many of these people are radical? The radical/total people ratio is so small that it is unbelievably prejudiced to think that the entire religion endorses violence. That's like seeing a couple people in American with 9 fingers and thinking everyone in the country does.
Mainstream American Muslims have condemned violence, but this is conveniently overlooked. Here is one example:
"Scholars condemn attacks on civilians as a violation of Islamic teaching Thurs., July. 28, 2005 American Muslim scholars who interpret religious law for their community issued an edict Thursday condemning terrorism against civilians in response to the wave of deadly attacks in Britain and other countries.
In the statement, called a fatwa, the 18-member Fiqh Council of North America wrote that people who commit terrorism in the name of Islam were “criminals, not ‘martyrs.”’
I know repeat KNOW most Muslims are compassionate humane people (unlike many christians I know) the violent people make up about .1 % of the Muslim population. anyone who says otherwise are ignorant.
Is it just me, or does Yes and No seem to be using different definitions of mainstream? Yes defines mainstream as the most influential/powerful/vocal part of Islam (which is most surely radical Islam), whilst No defines it as the most numerous part. - JamesCA, 25 May 2011