Difference between revisions of "Talk:Liberal bigotry"

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(Examples)
(a proposal to work together)
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Apparently what is happening is that the two different sides are using selected examples to argue that the other side are the real bigots. Erasing each other's examples isn't going to remedy the situation. I suggest we try something else. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] <sup>[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]</sup> 19:59, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 
Apparently what is happening is that the two different sides are using selected examples to argue that the other side are the real bigots. Erasing each other's examples isn't going to remedy the situation. I suggest we try something else. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] <sup>[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]</sup> 19:59, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 
:Lol, sorry, Ed I missed your humor. I just spent waaaaaay too much time vetting the examples and I was a little tunnel visioned ;-) You are right, that examples can be used ''sometimes'', but they can't be used to prove all inclusive statements, like the one in the article. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 20:02, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 
:Lol, sorry, Ed I missed your humor. I just spent waaaaaay too much time vetting the examples and I was a little tunnel visioned ;-) You are right, that examples can be used ''sometimes'', but they can't be used to prove all inclusive statements, like the one in the article. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 20:02, 13 November 2008 (EST)
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Your comment above is most incisive; it cuts to the chase.
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*''Some'' liberals are bigots, but not all of them, and they aren't the only ones. Some conservatives are bigots
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Let's work together to expose bigotry of both left and right. I don't care which is "worse". Let's just be evenhanded about it. Underneath bigotry, perhaps there is truth waiting to be revealed. You'd have to be crazy to reject the truth - even if it "hurts" to learn it, it "will set you free". (John 8:32) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] <sup>[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]</sup> 20:06, 13 November 2008 (EST)

Revision as of 01:06, November 14, 2008

Guess what HelpJazz is going to ask for? HelpJazz 16:58, 13 November 2008 (EST)

Yay! Citations! Do I get a cookie? Bugler 16:59, 13 November 2008 (EST)
Good job! You can have your cookie after you eat your vegetables put in the citation. HelpJazz 17:01, 13 November 2008 (EST)


Examples

Does this page need examples of bigotry? I'm not saying the current examples aren't good examples of bigotry (most of them are), but I can't help but think that most of these examples are not put up to give a clearer understanding of bigotry, but to make a political statement. --Ben Talk 18:06, 13 November 2008 (EST)

No, yet again, examples will never prove a point, especially when these examples are so fraught with opinion. HelpJazz 18:12, 13 November 2008 (EST)
Examples will never prove a point? Examples are the basis of all argument. They are fact. They are evidence. RodWeathers 18:14, 13 November 2008 (EST)
What do you mean, examples have never proven a point? Can you give an example where they've ever failed? --Ed Poor Talk 18:16, 13 November 2008 (EST)
Sorry, maybe I missed something, why was the violence against abortion clinics removed as an example with the reason "The evidence being compiled is ample" only to be replaced with another example. If it was deleted on accident, then let me know and Ill put it back in. Also, I might just be naive, but isn't saying all members of a single group are bigots, in fact, also bigotry? The only defining characteristic of Atheists is that they don't believe in God. Some of them may be bigots, but so are some Christians, Jews, and pagans. Using an atheist who is claiming "all religious people should be locked up" is a good example of bigotry. Saying all atheists are like that is wrong. If I am correct, then the into should be changed since it is attributing bigotry to all members of the listed groups. --ScottA 18:35, 13 November 2008 (EST)
What I meant, Ed, was that he is trying to use exampes of bigotry to prove that all (or most) liberals are bigotted. It can't be done, unless he gives an example from all (or most) liberals. I don't know how many times I have said this across this wiki, but nobody seems to understand this point. HelpJazz 19:52, 13 November 2008 (EST)
You don't seem to understand the basis of statistics and representative data. It is utterly impossible to survey the entirety of a population in any study. Instead, we have to rely on representative examples, the broader the better. This establishes an underlying culture and shared values. RodWeathers 19:55, 13 November 2008 (EST)
That's not actually a problem for me. What that tells me is that you need to find a study that someone has done of bigotry and liberalism (it's not too outlandish to think that someone might have done it already), or find some reliable definition of liberal, elitist, atheist and homosexual that includes bigotry as one of its major characteristics, or change the language of the statement to match something you can back up. Some liberals are bigots, but not all of them, and they aren't the only ones. Some conservatives are bigots, how many examples do you want me to find before I can add conservatives to the list of people defined by bigotry? HelpJazz 20:02, 13 November 2008 (EST)

Never let it be said that I failed to understand a point. I was kind of pulling your leg with the 'example logic' above.

Apparently what is happening is that the two different sides are using selected examples to argue that the other side are the real bigots. Erasing each other's examples isn't going to remedy the situation. I suggest we try something else. --Ed Poor Talk 19:59, 13 November 2008 (EST)

Lol, sorry, Ed I missed your humor. I just spent waaaaaay too much time vetting the examples and I was a little tunnel visioned ;-) You are right, that examples can be used sometimes, but they can't be used to prove all inclusive statements, like the one in the article. HelpJazz 20:02, 13 November 2008 (EST)

Your comment above is most incisive; it cuts to the chase.

  • Some liberals are bigots, but not all of them, and they aren't the only ones. Some conservatives are bigots

Let's work together to expose bigotry of both left and right. I don't care which is "worse". Let's just be evenhanded about it. Underneath bigotry, perhaps there is truth waiting to be revealed. You'd have to be crazy to reject the truth - even if it "hurts" to learn it, it "will set you free". (John 8:32) --Ed Poor Talk 20:06, 13 November 2008 (EST)