Talk:Conservative Bible Project

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As a participant in the Conservative Bible Project, I was amazed at how much insight into the world and into logic was gained from nearly every verse that I translated. This was the finest educational project that I have ever done.--Andy Schlafly 11:17, 23 April 2010 (EDT)

I did very little work, but from what I did do, I would agree with Andy's comments. My learning acquired in this matter is the very real latitude there is translating from the Greek and Aramaic and how a translation can reflect on what we hope to get out of it, and the purpose or the people and "address" we envision for itBertSchlossberg 12:40, 23 April 2010 (EDT)

It's one of the finest educational works of the last century, in my opinion. I wish I had registered sooner to help! AlfredB 13:10, 23 April 2010 (EDT)

I discovered just how wildly different translations can be, and learned a fair bit about books I'd read little or superficially in the past. DouglasA 13:20, 23 April 2010 (EDT)

I was astonished at how conservative St. Paul was in his letters. He was far to the right of modern conservatives.--Andy Schlafly 13:35, 23 April 2010 (EDT)

How do I go about helping out? -JasoT 00:45, 2 August 2010 (EDT)

Pick any verse of the Bible you like, and either improve the translation that is there or propose a translation if it has not been done yet. I look forward to learning from your edits.--Andy Schlafly 00:56, 2 August 2010 (EDT)

Why the first instance?

"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." What is wrong with this? As a believer in Biblical inerrancy I do not see why you would change the Bible to meet with "conservative thought patterns". What is the reason for removing this? --LK 16:43, 17 November 2010 (EST)

The doctrine of Biblical inerrancy does not resolve the issue of a few passages of doubtful authenticity. Your quoted passage has heavy liberal overtones, suggesting it is suspect. Scholarly analysis independently confirms that it is not authentic.
What are the liberal overtones? First, note how often the media, movies, books and liberals love to quote that passage rather than other passages given far greater emphasis. The quoted phrase is false: many of Jesus's persecutors knew what they were doing. The quoted passage contradicts many other statements and facts about Jesus. Jesus did not forgive sins without repentance, but liberals like to pretend falsely that repentance is not necessary. Let's not be misled, and let's not mislead others.--Andy Schlafly 18:41, 17 November 2010 (EST)
The people who nailed him on the cross did not know that he was God; rather, they thought that he was a common criminal. Later, in Luke 23:47, the centurion realized that he was a righteous man, even though he still did not realize that he was God.
The Bible should be translated according to the meaning of the original Greek and Hebrew words, and it should not be translated by people who do not know God; that is why the modern Bible version are so messed up because people don't care about God's word and put in what they want, disregarding what it means. --LK 09:39, 18 November 2010 (EST)
I'm a bit puzzled by this as well. Perhaps I've misunderstood you, but it sounds as if your standard for declaring a Bible passage to be illegitimate is that it is cited by liberals. That hardly seems sufficient. Furthermore, given that forgiveness is a major theme of the Gospels, isn't the line at least consistent with the rest of the text? --DrewJ 14:35, 18 November 2010 (EST)
I definitely did not agree with it, but wanted to find out why. Conservatism should conform to the Bible, not the Bible to conservatism. --LK 15:16, 18 November 2010 (EST)
Folks, you're ducking the flaw in the passage: repentance is required for forgiveness. It's liberal denial to pretend otherwise, and that's why liberals love this passage. Scholars agree it's not authentic.--Andy Schlafly 17:59, 18 November 2010 (EST)
Jesus forgives everyone of what they did to him on the earth; that is why there is another verse that says "Every blasphemy against the Son of man shall be forgiven" (paraphrase) This corresponds right. --LK 19:53, 18 November 2010 (EST)
LK, perhaps you've been misled by liberals. Jesus talked more about Hell than about Heaven. Repentance is a prerequisite to forgiveness. The Bible is crystal clear about this.--Andy Schlafly 20:01, 18 November 2010 (EST)

You can forgive someone who wrongs you without them ever repenting of the wrong they did to you. There are more meanings to forgiveness than you think. The verse does not state that they automatically went to heaven. --LK 15:46, 19 November 2010 (EST)

That was always my understanding of the passage, but even that's not really relevant to whether or not it belongs in the Bible. If you had some evidence that the verse was based on a bad translation/interpretation or was not present in the original Hebrew or Greek versions, this wouldn't be an issue. However, it appears to me (and again, correct me if I'm wrong) that you are rejecting it based on politics rather than validity or consistency. --DrewJ 16:01, 19 November 2010 (EST)
Christ did not engage in spin, LanthanumK. Forgiveness is just that. The act of our forgiving shouldn't be predicated on what the person does or does not do.....that remains the province of the Lord to judge them. --ṬK/Admin/Talk 16:02, 19 November 2010 (EST)

LK, if you're not going to address my points, then this discussion has become unproductive. Jesus repeatedly emphasized that repentance is a pre-condition to forgiveness by God, and Jesus repeatedly emphasized that Hell awaits those who don't repent. It's fine to forgive your neighbor, but your neighbor isn't going to obtain forgiveness from God without repentance. Liberal denial is working overtime to hide this truth.--Andy Schlafly 20:44, 19 November 2010 (EST)

Why do you hide behind a smoke screen of conservatism? Jesus forgave them for what they did to him on the cross; since they did not repent, any sins after that would still send them to hell. Its conservative denial to pretend otherwise. --LK 21:17, 19 November 2010 (EST)
Jesus did forgive them while on the cross, but did that mean those same people were given eternal life on the spot? No. And while Jesus was forgiving them, they sat amongst themselves casting the dice for the clothes they had ripped from His body before they crucified Him. Kinda sounds like they continued with their sinning despite what Jesus did, doesn't it? I think you had better read your Bible a little closer; maybe it'll help clear the fog you've created around yourself. Karajou 21:36, 19 November 2010 (EST)
The key thing to keep in mind here, I think, is that just because Jesus forgives you for some specific sins, that doesn't mean he forgives you for ALL your sins, and especially for sins you may commit in the future. So someone forgiven by Jesus can still go to Hell if they continue to be sinful afterwards. --TeacherEd 22:37, 19 November 2010 (EST)
Surely unconditional and unilateral forgiveness or withholding forgiveness until the offender repents depends on the nature of the situation. Both are reflected in the scriptures. The verses quoted below are from the New Testament of the Conservapedia Bible--a most reliable Modern English translation, done by the best of the public in over two months, much more efficiently than other translations such as the NIV currently being worked on by the elitist college professors dominated Committee on Bible Translation.
‘Remember always, that if another should harm you, you should rebuke him, and if he repents, you should forgive him.’ (Luke 17:3)
That is clearly conditional on repentance. However,
‘Thus you should be merciful, as your Father is merciful. Judge not, and you shall not be judged; blame not, and you shall not be blamed; forgive, and you shall be forgiven.’ (Luke 6:36-37)
‘Because if you forgive men the wrongs they do, your heavenly Father will forgive you as well. But if you do not forgive men their wrongdoings, your Father will not forgive your wrongdoings either.’ (Matthew. 6:14-15)
would appear to be unconditional, unless it can be shown that some verses of the scriptures take precedence over others.
Surely Christian personal forgiveness takes place in the heart regardless of the sin or a lack of confession and repentance. Forgiveness protects us from developing grudges, becoming bitter and resentful, which may turn to hatred or anger. Forgiveness also ensures that we reflect first on our own sins and God’s gracious forgiveness toward us as undeserving sinners. It is a Christian's love for the sinner that will move him to repent.
I am fascinated by the suggestion that the quoted phrase "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." is false and would love to learn more about that. Who are the Scholars who agree it's not authentic and which of their publications deal with the issue?
Surely Christ's death on behalf of mankind was so that God would not immediately call the sinner to judgment when he sinned? Without the death of Christ, God’s justice and holiness would have required the immediate judgment of the sinner. Since Jesus died for our sins, a temporal postponement or suspension of judgment occurs, not eternal forgiveness. That is reflected in "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." If they ‘know not what they do’ they cannot repent, but once aware of what they have done, they will have ample opportunity to do so.
AmandaBunting 20:21, 20 November 2010 (EST)
Amanda, you also ignore the fact that Jesus emphasized Hell more than Heaven. Who do you think goes to Hell, if not unrepentant sinners???
Your first quote from Scriptures is clear, and your second and third quotes do not contradict the first one. Moreover, the suggestion that man forgive unconditionally does not mean that God will. Jesus was crystal clear that Hell is real and crowded.
Liberal denial of the existence of Hell is axiomatic to liberal misinformation. As to the phrase "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do," it's simply not there in the "early and diverse manuscripts." (Philip Comfort, "Essential Guide to Bible Versions"). It's obviously a liberal distortion.--Andy Schlafly 20:46, 20 November 2010 (EST)
Amanda, you use a lot of words, but don't say many insightful things. I am going to provide a concise answer to your main question - why is "Father, forgive theml for they know not what they do" most likely inauthentic. First off, this verse appears only in Luke, and not any of the other gospels. More importantly, however, it doesn't appear in many of the earliest manuscripts of the gospel, thus implying it was added in later, and not written by the original author. Many scholars acknowledge this, and many Bible translations do not include the verse (the United Bible Society for example does not include it in their translation). I recommend doing more research before engaging in a discussion here. --TeacherEd 20:48, 20 November 2010 (EST)
Andy, I referred to a temporal postponement or suspension of judgment occurring, not eternal forgiveness. I saw no reason to mention Hell, or Heaven for that matter, in a discussion about the nature of forgiveness. I can however assure you that I am fully aware that Hell is real and crowded full of sinners. Thank you for the Philip Comfort reference. I will endeavour to acquire a copy. TeacherEd, thank you for further clarification about the authenticity of the phrase in question. I can assure you that I make the utmost efforts to research that of which I wish to learn more. Perhaps I am not the best of researchers. I once tried to search the online New American Bible but was unsuccessful. I come here to learn from a unique and unparalleled educational resource. I assumed in good faith, and with an open mind, that engaging in discussion was part of that learning process. AmandaBunting 21:50, 20 November 2010 (EST)
Amanda, since you agree that Hell is real and crowded, who do you think goes there? Not repentant sinners, but unrepentant ones. This isn't rocket science, and it is absurd for liberals to deny that unrepentant sinners go to Hell.--Andy Schlafly 21:58, 20 November 2010 (EST)
Sorry if I was unclear. I of course meant that Hell is full of unrepentant sinners, for not to repent is the ultimate sin. Please forgive my oversight. AmandaBunting 22:06, 20 November 2010 (EST)
I'm glad you have come to realize the truth on this matter! For learning more about Biblical concepts, I recommend signing up for the Bible Lectures --TeacherEd 17:31, 21 November 2010 (EST)

Bible Project

Hello, I think that this Bible Project is just to pick verses out of the Bible to use them to your extent. The Bible should be read in context. The meaning of a verse can be changed by the verse following it... What is the good of this project? Xeno 08:37, 23 February 2011 (EST)

This project is comprehensive and does not take verses out of context. The good of it is to produce a more precise translation free of liberal bias.--Andy Schlafly 09:37, 23 February 2011 (EST)


I just found this from the main page and commend the site for creating this excellent resource. You have my best wishes for success.--RoyT 15:29, 19 March 2011 (EDT)