Difference between revisions of "Talk:Essay: Gallery of obese atheists"

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:I don't want to indulge [[User:Conservative]] any more than I absolutely have to, but making a claim about an individual's diet 2000 years ago based on (what appear to be) cultural norms is fallacious and entirely speculative.  For one, my guess would be that polytheists, in general, would also have a similar diet.  By your argument, Christians are obese because Christian Americans eat fatty food (see the gallery above).  [[User:GregG|GregG]] 00:12, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:I don't want to indulge [[User:Conservative]] any more than I absolutely have to, but making a claim about an individual's diet 2000 years ago based on (what appear to be) cultural norms is fallacious and entirely speculative.  For one, my guess would be that polytheists, in general, would also have a similar diet.  By your argument, Christians are obese because Christian Americans eat fatty food (see the gallery above).  [[User:GregG|GregG]] 00:12, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:I forgot to add that it's really not fair to compare average weights of people in societies over 2000 years old (when starvation and food production are major issues) and today (where we have significantly increased our food production capacity; very few first-world people are starving to death).  [[User:GregG|GregG]] 00:14, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:I forgot to add that it's really not fair to compare average weights of people in societies over 2000 years old (when starvation and food production are major issues) and today (where we have significantly increased our food production capacity; very few first-world people are starving to death).  [[User:GregG|GregG]] 00:14, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
::GregG, why don't you ask [[William Lane Craig]] to debate you on this topic. If he thinks it is a serious topic, I am sure he will debate you. I hope you will forgive me for saying this, but I have my doubts Craig will debate you. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:34, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
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::GregG, why don't you ask [[William Lane Craig]] to debate someone on this topic. If he thinks it is a serious topic, I am sure he will hold a debate on this matter. I hope you will forgive me for saying this, but I have my doubts Craig is going to hold a debate about this topic. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:34, 30 June 2012 (EDT)

Revision as of 00:39, 30 June 2012

CPalmer, could you assemble our overweight Christian brothers and sisters in a similar gallery? And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? (Matthew_1-9_(Translated)#7:3) Thanks, AugustO 09:10, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

August, a couple of points in response to this:
  1. This isn't intended as a page in its own right, only as an adjunct to Atheism and obesity. It doesn't make sense to list the obese Christians in the absence of a Christianity and obesity page, although Thomas Aquinas would be a good one to start with.
  2. This is intended as satire, so there's no need to be comprehensive or authoritative, only funny and incisive.
  3. There's no mote in my eye in this case, since for all my many failings, I'm not obese (at time of writing). (You don't need to quote Matthew - I am familiar with the passage.)
I don't really plan to spend much more time on this little page, so I hope I've answered your concerns satisfactorily.--CPalmer 09:19, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
Dear CPalmer
  1. I dislike atheism and obesity, I think it's a badly written article on a meritless subject. It isn't much of a satire, neither, it isn't marked as an essay, so I'd expect it to adhere to the standards of an encyclopedia. Sadly, that's not the case. Perhaps the proposed gallery would help to give it some balance?
  2. In my experience, I was just kidding is often used as an lame excuse for ditching responsibility when someone is insulted...
  3. You are not obese? So you are not an atheist? This kind of reasoning is quite unsound...
  4. You created this page, certainly with the intention that someone links to it. It will pop up in Special:Search/gallery, where it certainly doesn't fit in well.
But I suppose you are aware of all the above and you are just having a little fun, no harm done and all that...
AugustO 09:33, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
I agree with you that atheism and obesity could be improved, which is really why I created this page. Given the presence of this neatly organized gallery, I'm hoping a lot of the sections of Atheism and obesity that only exist to contain one picture could be taken out, which will make the article better. Again, I'm not adding anything new here, and I'm not insulting anyone who isn't already being amply insulted.
I believe you've suggested in the past that Atheism and obesity should be deleted entirely. Well, that is not on the cards, so I hope you'd be in favor of alternative action that should at least tidy it up a bit and shorten it.--CPalmer 09:40, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Gallery of obese Christians

I took a quick look through our images and found the following:

AugustO 11:56, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

I like the inclusion of Santa Claus - most amusing.--CPalmer 09:55, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
I hope you don't mind me adding some as I come across them. Thanks! --SharonW 16:02, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

You won't see Jesus, Moses, Apostle Paul or the Apostle Peter in your list. They pretty much ate a Mosaic diet or Mediterranean diet employing reasonable portions and had sufficient exercise.

Conveniently, there doesn't exist any portraits of these people that were done from life, so you're making an assumption here. --SharonW 15:29, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Here are some interesting articles on weight loss and maintaining a healthy weight:

My thoughts on this matter agree with this material: Chuck Norris on the topic of obesity

I have met people from various parts of the world and there is far less obesity in the Eastern World than in many parts of the Western World and I think the reason is that they eat better, get more exercise and are often more disciplined. Also, Asian Americans generally lead more healthy lives too than many westerners. I have a feeling that Amy Chua doesn't allow her kid(s) to eat a lot of snacks and watch a lot of television. Conservative 15:31, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Non sequitur. --SharonW 16:00, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Richard Dawkins

Im surprised Richard Dawkins wasn;t there. Then again, it makes sense. The entire essay revolves around a fictional premise that atheists are obese in comparison to Christians.brenden 16:04, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Seriously?

User:Conservative - you have once again deleted a comment of mine. It was not offensive, nor was it trolling. I request that you please restore it. --SharonW 16:22, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

The brief discussion was pointless and was only going to lead to bickering. I have decided to move on. I will say for the record that I didn't initially create the gallery nor did I add any pictures of new people. Conservative 16:28, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
Do try to remember that you had to delete and oversight our "brief discussion" the next time you want to call someone a coward. And yes, while you didn't initially create this gallery, you are the only one on this site obsessed with creating all of the "Conservapedia hates fat people" articles - you know the ones where you say fat people are atheists, lesbians, homosexuals, blah, blah, blah. You pretend you're being helpful by providing the links to diets, etc., but the disdainful language surrounding the links trumps them. --SharonW 16:55, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
For the record, I have never said that all overweight people are atheists or lesbians/homosexuals nor have I said that CP hates overweight people.Conservative 17:01, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
But you do not deny deleting and oversighting a discussion you had with SharonW. As she says, please remember that next time you throw out an accusation of cowardice or unwillingness to debate. I know that all those you make the accusation against certainly will. Davidspencer 17:07, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
David, if you want to accuse me of cowardice despite my offers to debate prominent atheists/evolutionists, I am not particularly concerned. If you are a fan of the agnostic/evolutionist Richard Dawkins or Penn Jillette or fan of any other prominent evolutionists or atheists, I would encourage you to ask them to engage in written debate with me. For example, feel free to contact Dawkins about this open debate offer: Essay: Debate challenge for Richard Dawkins. My material has been read by a lot of people and given the current decline of global atheism and global agnosticism which is expected to accelerate and the decline of American evolutionism in the last 17 months [1], they clearly need to do something if the care about their religions. But if they want to fiddle while global atheism/agnosticism/evolutionism burns that is fine with me. My fellow Bible believing Christians and I have no problem roasting hot dogs and marshmellows (in moderation of course) on the bonfire of global atheism/agnosticism/evolutionism burning. :) Conservative 21:02, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Addendum: As far as oversighting a few sentences of material because I didn't want to be dragged into the ridiculous debate of whether Jesus was overweight, I have no regrets. Being charged with cowardice about the matter was rather humorous though. In retrospect, it was definitely one of the most humorous things to occur on CP. Jesus was a carpenter before the days of power tools and then he became a traveling preacher/prophet who did a lot of walking. Plus, he lived in the Middle East about 2,000 years ago and ate a healthy Mosaic diet. I very much doubt anyone is going to give someone an extended debate about this matter. Conservative 00:07, 30 June 2012 (EDT)

I don't want to indulge User:Conservative any more than I absolutely have to, but making a claim about an individual's diet 2000 years ago based on (what appear to be) cultural norms is fallacious and entirely speculative. For one, my guess would be that polytheists, in general, would also have a similar diet. By your argument, Christians are obese because Christian Americans eat fatty food (see the gallery above). GregG 00:12, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
I forgot to add that it's really not fair to compare average weights of people in societies over 2000 years old (when starvation and food production are major issues) and today (where we have significantly increased our food production capacity; very few first-world people are starving to death). GregG 00:14, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
GregG, why don't you ask William Lane Craig to debate someone on this topic. If he thinks it is a serious topic, I am sure he will hold a debate on this matter. I hope you will forgive me for saying this, but I have my doubts Craig is going to hold a debate about this topic. :) Conservative 00:34, 30 June 2012 (EDT)