Difference between revisions of "Talk:Essay: Gallery of obese atheists"

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(Gallery of obese Christians)
(Where's Brian Macdonald aka Karajou?: new section)
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File:John-23.jpg|[[Pope John XXIII]]
 
File:John-23.jpg|[[Pope John XXIII]]
 
</gallery></center>
 
</gallery></center>
 
 
[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 11:56, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
 
[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 11:56, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
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== Re: the above gallery ==
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[[File:Chuck norris.jpg|thumbnail|200px|left|Of course, we all know who I am fan of: the conservative and Bible believer [[Chuck Norris]]!]]
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[[File:Hong Kong Christians at Gateway Camp.jpg|thumbnail|right|250px|[[Hong Kong]] Christians at Gateway Camp. In 2005, there were four times as many non-Western World Christians as there were [[Western World]] Christians.[http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=30077]
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<br /><br />
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<small>(photo obtained from [http://www.flickr.com/photos/mckln/4815046728/in/set-72157624550425162 Flickr], see [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/2.0/deed.en license agreement])</small>]]
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{{clear}}
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== Other commentary ==
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: I like the inclusion of Santa Claus - most amusing.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:55, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
 
: I like the inclusion of Santa Claus - most amusing.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:55, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
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Good grief, Conservative - you were blathering on about nobody wanting to buy a picture of a fat Jesus, and I pointed out that people buy pictures of Jesus portrayed as blond, blue-eyed Caucasian all the time, and that I doubted that Jesus actually looked like that. Those were the comments you over-sighted. There was no argument about whether or not Jesus was fat - I just pointed out that ''you can't possibly know for certain''. I have offered to debate you about your treatment of obese people, and you have refused. You are the one who accuses people of cowardice over not debating. --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 01:00, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
 
Good grief, Conservative - you were blathering on about nobody wanting to buy a picture of a fat Jesus, and I pointed out that people buy pictures of Jesus portrayed as blond, blue-eyed Caucasian all the time, and that I doubted that Jesus actually looked like that. Those were the comments you over-sighted. There was no argument about whether or not Jesus was fat - I just pointed out that ''you can't possibly know for certain''. I have offered to debate you about your treatment of obese people, and you have refused. You are the one who accuses people of cowardice over not debating. --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 01:00, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
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::A general message to all re: the [[Atheism and obesity]] article:
 +
 +
::I have not had a campaign against overweight people in general.
 +
 +
::I merely pointed out the obesity in the atheist, homosexual and lesbian populations in the Western World. I also pointed out that atheists pretend to love science and science gives us abundance information on how to lose weight and the negative effects of being overweight. Workout an hour or more a day (strength training and aerobic exercise) and eat a sensible diet (reasonable amount of fruits and vegetables or Mediterranean diet or Zone diet, low glycemic foods, etc.) and the vast majority of people will lose the weight and keep it off with a reasonable amount of maintenance exercise. I provided all the information on how to lose weight and keep it off via a healthy lifestyle.
 +
 +
::I also pointed out that in 2005, there were 4 times as many Eastern World Christians as Western World Christians (and that Eastern World people have healthier lifestyles in general) and there is a significant amount of data indicating that the very religious in America live healthier lifestyles than others in America. Plus, I gave sound research indicating that religion in the West tends to increase self-discipline (all other things remaining equal of course).
 +
 +
::In addition, I pointed out that there seems to be a higher incidence of obesity within the homosexual population and provided sound evidence. Most homosexuals are liberals and liberals purport to love science so I don't see why this is not fair to point out.
 +
 +
::I also pointed out that people cannot reasonably claim that Jesus, Moses, Peter and the Apostle Paul were overweight. For example, there are several Bible passages against gluttony and sloth. The Bible is definitely not friendly to gluttony and sloth. Given that many Western atheists presently scoff at how superior their ideology is over a biblical worldview this is certainly fair to point out.
 +
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::I realize that the Western World has become prosperous and history teaches us that prosperity in a culture can lead to complacency and those cultures declining/falling.  As a result, advocating self-discipline is not going to be a popular idea among many at the present time. Recently, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqeeFhnlHvk a book came out] essentially saying that overweight people in general need to be more self-disciplined, personally responsible and more mentally tough and if memory serves he ignited caller complaints after his public appearances (By the way, the author is an ex overweight guy and it appears he is a libertarian atheist or at least anti-Bible).
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::Lastly, as far as the [[Overweight atheists comedy and satire]], atheists (and liberals) sure seem willing to dish out satire, but I have noticed that they can dish it out, but they can't take it. Could atheist pride be the issue? [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 09:11, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
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:::I was wondering [[User:Conservative|Conservative]].  You quite rightly, in my opinion, have a dislike of obese people - especially atheists.  Are you willing to reveal the weight of the collective known as [[User:Conservative|Conservative]]?  Personally I am 5 foot 10 inches and weigh (currently) 14 stone.  What do you (and/or your respective contributors) weigh.  If you are unwilling to reveal the number of members of your collective (a somewhat socialist concept I must say) then an average weight will do if you are willing to provide it. [[User:Davidspencer|Davidspencer]] 10:42, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
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[[File:Sun Tzu portrait.jpg|thumbnail|right|200px|"Subtle! Subtle! They become formless. Mysterious! Mysterious! They become soundless. Therefore, they are the masters of the enemy's fate." - [[Sun Tzu]] ]]
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::::David, do you understand the difference between fact and opinion? You certainly have provided no proof and evidence that I/we dislike obese people - none! :)  Secondly, within reason people rightly like others who stick to their guns on matters and prior to User:Conservative's material on obesity and the atheism/homosexuality, User: Conservative did say that no identifying information would be give on us/me. :) Of course, it goes without saying that this policy will continue. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 11:08, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
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== Where's Brian Macdonald aka Karajou? ==
 +
 +
??

Revision as of 21:14, 30 June 2012

CPalmer, could you assemble our overweight Christian brothers and sisters in a similar gallery? And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? (Matthew_1-9_(Translated)#7:3) Thanks, AugustO 09:10, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

August, a couple of points in response to this:
  1. This isn't intended as a page in its own right, only as an adjunct to Atheism and obesity. It doesn't make sense to list the obese Christians in the absence of a Christianity and obesity page, although Thomas Aquinas would be a good one to start with.
  2. This is intended as satire, so there's no need to be comprehensive or authoritative, only funny and incisive.
  3. There's no mote in my eye in this case, since for all my many failings, I'm not obese (at time of writing). (You don't need to quote Matthew - I am familiar with the passage.)
I don't really plan to spend much more time on this little page, so I hope I've answered your concerns satisfactorily.--CPalmer 09:19, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
Dear CPalmer
  1. I dislike atheism and obesity, I think it's a badly written article on a meritless subject. It isn't much of a satire, neither, it isn't marked as an essay, so I'd expect it to adhere to the standards of an encyclopedia. Sadly, that's not the case. Perhaps the proposed gallery would help to give it some balance?
  2. In my experience, I was just kidding is often used as an lame excuse for ditching responsibility when someone is insulted...
  3. You are not obese? So you are not an atheist? This kind of reasoning is quite unsound...
  4. You created this page, certainly with the intention that someone links to it. It will pop up in Special:Search/gallery, where it certainly doesn't fit in well.
But I suppose you are aware of all the above and you are just having a little fun, no harm done and all that...
AugustO 09:33, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
I agree with you that atheism and obesity could be improved, which is really why I created this page. Given the presence of this neatly organized gallery, I'm hoping a lot of the sections of Atheism and obesity that only exist to contain one picture could be taken out, which will make the article better. Again, I'm not adding anything new here, and I'm not insulting anyone who isn't already being amply insulted.
I believe you've suggested in the past that Atheism and obesity should be deleted entirely. Well, that is not on the cards, so I hope you'd be in favor of alternative action that should at least tidy it up a bit and shorten it.--CPalmer 09:40, 20 June 2012 (EDT)

Gallery of obese Christians

I took a quick look through our images and found the following:

AugustO 11:56, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Re: the above gallery

Of course, we all know who I am fan of: the conservative and Bible believer Chuck Norris!
Hong Kong Christians at Gateway Camp. In 2005, there were four times as many non-Western World Christians as there were Western World Christians.[1]

(photo obtained from Flickr, see license agreement)

Other commentary

I like the inclusion of Santa Claus - most amusing.--CPalmer 09:55, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
I hope you don't mind me adding some as I come across them. Thanks! --SharonW 16:02, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

You won't see Jesus, Moses, Apostle Paul or the Apostle Peter in your list. They pretty much ate a Mosaic diet or Mediterranean diet employing reasonable portions and had sufficient exercise.

Conveniently, there doesn't exist any portraits of these people that were done from life, so you're making an assumption here. --SharonW 15:29, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Here are some interesting articles on weight loss and maintaining a healthy weight:

My thoughts on this matter agree with this material: Chuck Norris on the topic of obesity

I have met people from various parts of the world and there is far less obesity in the Eastern World than in many parts of the Western World and I think the reason is that they eat better, get more exercise and are often more disciplined. Also, Asian Americans generally lead more healthy lives too than many westerners. I have a feeling that Amy Chua doesn't allow her kid(s) to eat a lot of snacks and watch a lot of television. Conservative 15:31, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Non sequitur. --SharonW 16:00, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
You won't see Jesus, Moses, Apostle Paul or the Apostle Peter in your list. No, the list doesn't imply that all Christians are obese! Do you think that there are only fat atheists?
It seems that your belief is just one amongst a lot more influential factors when it comes to personal appearance.
AugustO 03:27, 30 June 2012 (EDT)

Richard Dawkins

Im surprised Richard Dawkins wasn;t there. Then again, it makes sense. The entire essay revolves around a fictional premise that atheists are obese in comparison to Christians.brenden 16:04, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Isn't Richard Dawkins an agnostic? It is rather humorous that a founder of the New Atheism movement was an agnostic. :) Also, didn't 3/5 of the New Atheism movmement's founders have excess weight? See: New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight. Conservative 16:19, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Seriously?

User:Conservative - you have once again deleted a comment of mine. It was not offensive, nor was it trolling. I request that you please restore it. --SharonW 16:22, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

The brief discussion was pointless and was only going to lead to bickering. I have decided to move on. I will say for the record that I didn't initially create the gallery nor did I add any pictures of new people. Conservative 16:28, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
Do try to remember that you had to delete and oversight our "brief discussion" the next time you want to call someone a coward. And yes, while you didn't initially create this gallery, you are the only one on this site obsessed with creating all of the "Conservapedia hates fat people" articles - you know the ones where you say fat people are atheists, lesbians, homosexuals, blah, blah, blah. You pretend you're being helpful by providing the links to diets, etc., but the disdainful language surrounding the links trumps them. --SharonW 16:55, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
For the record, I have never said that all overweight people are atheists or lesbians/homosexuals nor have I said that CP hates overweight people.Conservative 17:01, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
But you do not deny deleting and oversighting a discussion you had with SharonW. As she says, please remember that next time you throw out an accusation of cowardice or unwillingness to debate. I know that all those you make the accusation against certainly will. Davidspencer 17:07, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
David, if you want to accuse me of cowardice despite my offers to debate prominent atheists/evolutionists, I am not particularly concerned. If you are a fan of the agnostic/evolutionist Richard Dawkins or Penn Jillette or fan of any other prominent evolutionists or atheists, I would encourage you to ask them to engage in written debate with me. For example, feel free to contact Dawkins about this open debate offer: Essay: Debate challenge for Richard Dawkins. My material has been read by a lot of people and given the current decline of global atheism and global agnosticism which is expected to accelerate and the decline of American evolutionism in the last 17 months [2], they clearly need to do something if the care about their religions. But if they want to fiddle while global atheism/agnosticism/evolutionism burns that is fine with me. My fellow Bible believing Christians and I have no problem roasting hot dogs and marshmellows (in moderation of course) on the bonfire of global atheism/agnosticism/evolutionism burning. :) Conservative 21:02, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Addendum: As far as oversighting a few sentences of material because I didn't want to be dragged into the ridiculous debate of whether Jesus was overweight, I have no regrets. Being charged with cowardice about the matter was rather humorous though. In retrospect, it was definitely one of the most humorous things to occur on CP. Jesus was a carpenter before the days of power tools and then he became a traveling preacher/prophet who did a lot of walking. Plus, he lived in the Middle East about 2,000 years ago and ate a healthy Mosaic diet. I very much doubt anyone is going to give someone an extended debate about this matter. Conservative 00:07, 30 June 2012 (EDT)

Way to go once again with a strawman. You know nothing about me but because I point out that you removed a comment to prevent debate, whilst accusing others of cowardice of when they do not reply to your invitations on this site to debate, you feel free to make unfounded and unsupported assertions about me. But we all know that is your modus operandi and my pointing it out will not change anything will it? Incidentally, can you point me to a shop where I can but marshmellows, I rather fancy trying some roasted. Davidspencer 02:09, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
Silly! You get them in the Mellow Marshes. Obviously. --SharonW 02:52, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
I don't want to indulge User:Conservative any more than I absolutely have to, but making a claim about an individual's diet 2000 years ago based on (what appear to be) cultural norms is fallacious and entirely speculative. For one, my guess would be that polytheists, in general, would also have a similar diet. By your argument, Christians are obese because Christian Americans eat fatty food (see the gallery above). GregG 00:12, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
I forgot to add that it's really not fair to compare average weights of people in societies over 2000 years old (when starvation and food production are major issues) and today (where we have significantly increased our food production capacity; very few first-world people are starving to death). GregG 00:14, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
GregG, why don't you ask William Lane Craig to debate someone on this topic. If he thinks it is a serious topic, I am sure he will hold a debate on this matter. I hope you will forgive me for saying this, but I have my doubts Craig is going to hold a debate about this topic. :) Conservative 00:34, 30 June 2012 (EDT)

Good grief, Conservative - you were blathering on about nobody wanting to buy a picture of a fat Jesus, and I pointed out that people buy pictures of Jesus portrayed as blond, blue-eyed Caucasian all the time, and that I doubted that Jesus actually looked like that. Those were the comments you over-sighted. There was no argument about whether or not Jesus was fat - I just pointed out that you can't possibly know for certain. I have offered to debate you about your treatment of obese people, and you have refused. You are the one who accuses people of cowardice over not debating. --SharonW 01:00, 30 June 2012 (EDT)

A general message to all re: the Atheism and obesity article:
I have not had a campaign against overweight people in general.
I merely pointed out the obesity in the atheist, homosexual and lesbian populations in the Western World. I also pointed out that atheists pretend to love science and science gives us abundance information on how to lose weight and the negative effects of being overweight. Workout an hour or more a day (strength training and aerobic exercise) and eat a sensible diet (reasonable amount of fruits and vegetables or Mediterranean diet or Zone diet, low glycemic foods, etc.) and the vast majority of people will lose the weight and keep it off with a reasonable amount of maintenance exercise. I provided all the information on how to lose weight and keep it off via a healthy lifestyle.
I also pointed out that in 2005, there were 4 times as many Eastern World Christians as Western World Christians (and that Eastern World people have healthier lifestyles in general) and there is a significant amount of data indicating that the very religious in America live healthier lifestyles than others in America. Plus, I gave sound research indicating that religion in the West tends to increase self-discipline (all other things remaining equal of course).
In addition, I pointed out that there seems to be a higher incidence of obesity within the homosexual population and provided sound evidence. Most homosexuals are liberals and liberals purport to love science so I don't see why this is not fair to point out.
I also pointed out that people cannot reasonably claim that Jesus, Moses, Peter and the Apostle Paul were overweight. For example, there are several Bible passages against gluttony and sloth. The Bible is definitely not friendly to gluttony and sloth. Given that many Western atheists presently scoff at how superior their ideology is over a biblical worldview this is certainly fair to point out.
I realize that the Western World has become prosperous and history teaches us that prosperity in a culture can lead to complacency and those cultures declining/falling. As a result, advocating self-discipline is not going to be a popular idea among many at the present time. Recently, a book came out essentially saying that overweight people in general need to be more self-disciplined, personally responsible and more mentally tough and if memory serves he ignited caller complaints after his public appearances (By the way, the author is an ex overweight guy and it appears he is a libertarian atheist or at least anti-Bible).
Lastly, as far as the Overweight atheists comedy and satire, atheists (and liberals) sure seem willing to dish out satire, but I have noticed that they can dish it out, but they can't take it. Could atheist pride be the issue? Conservative 09:11, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
I was wondering Conservative. You quite rightly, in my opinion, have a dislike of obese people - especially atheists. Are you willing to reveal the weight of the collective known as Conservative? Personally I am 5 foot 10 inches and weigh (currently) 14 stone. What do you (and/or your respective contributors) weigh. If you are unwilling to reveal the number of members of your collective (a somewhat socialist concept I must say) then an average weight will do if you are willing to provide it. Davidspencer 10:42, 30 June 2012 (EDT)
"Subtle! Subtle! They become formless. Mysterious! Mysterious! They become soundless. Therefore, they are the masters of the enemy's fate." - Sun Tzu
David, do you understand the difference between fact and opinion? You certainly have provided no proof and evidence that I/we dislike obese people - none! :) Secondly, within reason people rightly like others who stick to their guns on matters and prior to User:Conservative's material on obesity and the atheism/homosexuality, User: Conservative did say that no identifying information would be give on us/me. :) Of course, it goes without saying that this policy will continue. :) Conservative 11:08, 30 June 2012 (EDT)

Where's Brian Macdonald aka Karajou?

??