Talk:Mystery:Why Do Atheists Dislike Underdogs?

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Uhh quick question, aren't Atheists in competition with Christians to rule the United States... But there so many more Christians than Atheists? Are Atheists the underdogs in that competition? Curiousity 20:56, 6 February 2012 (EST)

There isn't any competition for what religions to "rule" the US. Christianity and Atheism are just at a minor, petty feud with each other. JLefkowitz 21:47, 6 February 2012 (EST)

Britain's hatred of the underdog

Since when? --JohnSpheniscidae 21:23, 6 February 2012 (EST)

I see that Andy has seen fit to remove the fact tags that I inserted seeking references for the bizarre assertions that he makes about the British character. No explanation was given for the removal. No surprises there I guess. I will await an explanation or a reference. If neither are forthcoming I will reinsert the fact tags. At that point I assume I will be blocked and reverted and any offending evidence will be burned. As an underdog on this site I am only too aware of the irony. --JohnSpheniscidae 23:36, 6 February 2012 (EST)
John, Britain's attitude against the underdog is common knowledge. Please research the issue and add references if you think it is really necessary.--Andy Schlafly 23:38, 6 February 2012 (EST)
If it's common knowledge you should be able to back it up easily enough. What about Americans love of the Yankees? DaveE 23:46, 6 February 2012 (EST)
Is it really common knowledge ? I was really enthusiastic about this encyclopedia but I am starting to see its limits...--PhilipN 23:45, 6 February 2012 (EST)

Weak argumentation

I am not an atheist but I believe your arguments can be countered easily. --PhilipN 21:32, 6 February 2012 (EST)

Survival of the fittest

1. Survival of the fittest (natural selection) is not a lifestyle choice. It is a biological theory. Just because evolutionary scientists accept the theory does not mean that they promote it as a way to live in human society.

2. Survival of the fittest (natural selection) is also accepted by creationists. Why then does the author of this "mystery" article point the finger at atheists alone?

--JohnSpheniscidae 21:59, 6 February 2012 (EST)

IQ and Atheism

If atheists have an above-average IQ, doesn't that mean that non-atheists, i.e. religious folks, have a below average IQ? --JustinD 22:13, 6 February 2012 (EST)

That sort of simplistic argument appeals to potential atheists. But upon closer look it suggests that atheism is less appealing the smarter one is, above around 105 in IQ.--Andy Schlafly 23:43, 6 February 2012 (EST)
Justin, as far as the issue of IQ and atheism, I wanted to help you out and point out that you misspelled the word atheism. :) I bet if you worked on your spelling and vocabulary that your IQ would go up. :) Conservative 01:51, 7 February 2012 (EST)
Okay, I guess I'm missing something. I thought that the average IQ was 100, but our article doesn't mention that so maybe I'm mistaken. Wikipedia agrees, but the statement isn't referenced. Is that not the case? Because if it is, and if we can divide everyone into two groups (atheists and non-atheists) then if one group has an above average IQ (atheists), the other must necessarily have a below average IQ (as a group, though obviously individual IQs would run the gamut). Or am I just misunderstanding the claim being made? Conservative, thanks. For whatever reason I didn't get the little red squiggles in the "Subject/headline" field and I've always had a problem with the i before e rule (which oddly doesn't apply here). Thankfully, technology is (usually) around to save me. --JustinD 03:05, 7 February 2012 (EST)

Faith and hope

Atheism is not a denial of faith or hope. It is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods. No more. No less. --JohnSpheniscidae 23:42, 6 February 2012 (EST)

Wasn't "hope" a central pillar of the election campaign of a certain B. Hussein Obama? DaveE 23:44, 6 February 2012 (EST)
Well, atheism does technically lack faith in terms of worship. JLefkowitz 23:51, 6 February 2012 (EST)
Yeah, but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. "I don't believe in God, therefore the Giants cannot beat the Packers"? Doesn't work logically. DaveE 23:54, 6 February 2012 (EST)
I agree there. The argument presented especially fails when considering people who have a team nearby playing in sports. Regardless of who is favored to win, sports fans that have local teams playing will probably cheer for them. Just because atheists don't believe in God doesn't mean that they don't believe in anything. JLefkowitz 00:06, 7 February 2012 (EST)
What I meant was that atheism says nothing about either faith or hope per se. An atheist can have faith in all manner of things other than gods. And they can certainly have hope. --JohnSpheniscidae 00:12, 7 February 2012 (EST)

Do Atheists dislike underdogs?

Whilst I recognise that this is Andy's website, and he is free to write about whatever mystery he is unable to answer; I feel that someone must point out that there appears no reason at all to suspect that atheists dislike underdogs. Certainly Andy has not given one other than "common knowledge". Well, the knowledge cannot be all that common because I have never heard of it.

However my objection goes further than simply one of insufficient evidence; I simply don't think the claim is true. I was at a major rugby 7's tournament in the weekend in NZ, obviously one of the most atheistic countries in the world, and in an event with excesses of drinking, incivility and lewdness (all atheistic traits as I'm sure we can agree). I can assure everybody that apart from when NZ was involved without exception the teams that got the most support were always the lesser team or underdog. I have witnessed this trait in sporting crowds all throughout the world, from South America to Australia to the UK - whenever there is no local team playing crowds invariably support the underdog. I don't see any reason at all to think that atheists see things differently, and this essay does not provide assistance. I hope we can have a sensible discussion about this idea. --DamianJohn 00:15, 7 February 2012 (EST)

You say, "I don't see any reason at all to think that atheists see things differently." I would be astounded if two groups of people, atheists and Christians, who have fundamentally opposite view of reality, saw things identically. It would be like saying a color-blinded person saw reality exactly the same as someone with perfect color perception. Surely they don't.
As to New Zealand, atheism is not nearly as high there as in European nations, including Britain. [1] Also, fan conduct at a stadium is probably not a representative sample.--Andy Schlafly 00:38, 7 February 2012 (EST)
On your first point, I would agree that there are many things that atheists and Christians will not see identically; however I don't know why support or otherwise for underdogs would be one of them. In any case you have not offered any evidence that they see this particular thing differently - it appears you have simply assumed it. I don't think it is inappropriate to ask for some form of positive evidence.
Your next points, are valid, but they are only valid in a rebuttal sense. They do nothing to provide support for your thesis that atheists and Christians differ in their support for underdogs. I would say that as for NZ it has been 15 years since we have had a theist of any variety as Prime Minister (and standards have slipped markedly in that time!)
Let me approach this in a different way. When did you first know that atheists don't support underdogs in the same way as Christians? Was it in an article you read, or something someone told you? Or was it something you realised for yourself after noticing a general trend? Perhaps if we work out why you think its true we might be able to gather some evidence for it -positive or negative. I have an open mind on this, but we do need to see some form of evidence. --DamianJohn 01:38, 7 February 2012 (EST)