Difference between revisions of "User talk:Aggrieved"

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(Guantanamo Bay releasees)
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:So until they die having committed no further terrorist act you will not be convinced that a single person released from Guantanamo has not returned (or turned) to being a terrorist? David Hicks was one of the most publicised trials (to the best of my knowledge being the first). I would be surprised if anyone could claim knowledge about Guantanamo or its prisoners without knowing his name. [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 19:30, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
 
:So until they die having committed no further terrorist act you will not be convinced that a single person released from Guantanamo has not returned (or turned) to being a terrorist? David Hicks was one of the most publicised trials (to the best of my knowledge being the first). I would be surprised if anyone could claim knowledge about Guantanamo or its prisoners without knowing his name. [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 19:30, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
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::Also we're talking about whether those released from Guantanamo have returned to the battlefield, not whether Guantanamo was effective or whether or not its prisoners were innocent. Please keep on topic. Your second and third points above (when you used numbers) are wholly irrelevant, and as for the 7% statistic you challenged someone to show that one person did not return to combat (allowing 99.8% to return - ?), even if you increase the stat fivefold to 35% your position is still very flawed. [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 19:33, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

Revision as of 18:33, 14 June 2008

Useful links

Welcome!

Hello, Aggrieved, and welcome to Conservapedia!

We're glad you are here to edit. We ask that you read our Editor's Guide before you edit.

At the right are some useful links for you. You can include these links on your user page by putting "{{Useful links}}" on the page. Any questions--ask!

Thanks for reading, Aggrieved!


-- 50 star flag.png User:Deborah (contributions) (talk) 11:39, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
The topic of the debate was "Which is worse?". Your comments appeared unrelated. If you want to complain that you (or your sock) isn't allowed to post "relevant information", the burden of proof is on you to establish its relevance. This is not an opinion blog. Try everything2 if that's what you want.
Or start a debate like "Is Expelled fair?" --Ed Poor Talk 17:49, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

Guantanamo Bay releasees

Sir, you just called me a liar with regard to released Gitmo prisoners going right back to the battlefield and doing the exact same thing all over again that they landed at Gitmo for in the first place: killing Americans.

You had better do one of three things:

  1. Provide a citation for your allegation that a significant proportion of Guantanamo detainees have turned out to be innocent of the war crimes imputed to them.
  2. Retract your last comment and apologize to me.
  3. Prepare to face blockage for contempt of the administration.

No need for you to reply on my talk page; I shall set a watch on this one.--TerryHTalk 18:26, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

Ok, Terry, if you want to take such a combative tone, let's get more specific - what you said was that "to a man, every one of those released detainess has turned up doing exactly the same thing again", yes? I take it you have proof of this, yes?
Now, why is it I who has to prove an allegation? You prove yours first. Aggrieved 18:30, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
When my life is at stake, you can repose one hundred percent confidence that I will be combative.
You show me an ironclad reference about someone who landed at Gitmo for longer than a couple of years, got out, and did not go right back to doing the thing whereof he stood accused, and we'll go from there.
And mind your tone when you talk to me. I'm an administrator and you're not.--TerryHTalk 18:59, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Deghayes
You might want to apologize for threatening to block him now. Wandering 19:01, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
Oh, and if you have some free time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Guantanamo_detainees_known_to_have_been_released
Happy researching! Wandering 19:06, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

<- Murat Kurnaz StatsMsn 19:07, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

Here's a story (from Fox News no less) that says 7% of the 500 released are "confirmed or suspected" by the Pentagon of returning to the war [1]. As I understand it, the original claim on main page talk was that released prisoners aren't typically going back, although in the list above the demand is for a citation that they're innocent. Presumably the former is the issue, and this ought to resolve it. Murray 19:09, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

David Hicks, I haven't heard of any terrorist attacks in my backyard recently. StatsMsn 19:10, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
  1. I don't know who David Hicks is, so that name is irrelevant.
  2. The reason that some of you might not have heard of any terrorist attacks in your backyard might be Guantanamo. You shut that down, and you will hear of a terrorist attack in your backyard. Or mine.
  3. The case of Omar Deghayes is incomplete. Notice that if that Wikipedia entry is accurate, then he still faces extradition to Spain.
  4. I suspect that some people suffer from yet another "fundamental flaw of presumption," in this case that everything that a lawyer says, in or out of court, is always true, complete, and correct to best of said lawyer's knowledge and belief.
  5. That 7% statistic is probably conservative in a way that normally doesn't impress me. And that's a far cry from the zero that some people have been presuming.

We deal here, if I may so observe, with two competing probabilities with distinctly different levels of cost. One is having somebody languish in prison for a few years. The other is to have a million Americans dead. Which would you rather?--TerryHTalk 19:27, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

Terry, if you dont know who David Hicks even is how can you through around accusations that everyone from Gitmo has turned out back on the battlefield? David Hicks WAS a prisoner and David Hicks WAS released. You seem to have little knowledge on the subject so don't insult those who do know. AdenJ 19:32, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

Terry - it is you who have made an unsubstantiated assertion, not I. Again I ask you for proof of your assertion. I note you have found it impossible to come by. It is easier to prove my case, much easier. Try Murat Kurnaz, for example, living in Germany since his release. David Hicks is alive and well in Australia. There are countless numbers of them who have not returned to combat Terry, and while I am certainly not denying that some have returned to combat, your claim that "to a man, every one of them" has done so is obviously completely incorrect. The Dept. of State's official report clearly says that "some detainees upon their release are returning to combat" (search for the phrase, no way to provide a hard link) - I imagine that if they could have made your claim, they would have been much happier, but they couldn't, so they didn't. Because it's not true.
Clearly, you are wrong, and childish attempts to bully me with your 'superior sysopship' don't change reality, sadly. Do you admit that you are wrong, and do you apologize? I would also ask you to mind your tone, thank you. Aggrieved 19:20, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

I admit no such thing. Those cases you've cited are still open, as far as I'm concerned. And I ought to block you just for using words like "childish" even if it is on your talk page. Retract that remark right now or you will get blocked just for that.--TerryHTalk 19:27, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

So until they die having committed no further terrorist act you will not be convinced that a single person released from Guantanamo has not returned (or turned) to being a terrorist? David Hicks was one of the most publicised trials (to the best of my knowledge being the first). I would be surprised if anyone could claim knowledge about Guantanamo or its prisoners without knowing his name. StatsMsn 19:30, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
Also we're talking about whether those released from Guantanamo have returned to the battlefield, not whether Guantanamo was effective or whether or not its prisoners were innocent. Please keep on topic. Your second and third points above (when you used numbers) are wholly irrelevant, and as for the 7% statistic you challenged someone to show that one person did not return to combat (allowing 99.8% to return - ?), even if you increase the stat fivefold to 35% your position is still very flawed. StatsMsn 19:33, 14 June 2008 (EDT)