Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Black hole

2009-07-08T16:55:57Z

BlueMoon:

==Extremely high density==

Technically, it's undefined, no? [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 07:52, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

did you know the 'Black Holes FAQ', which there is a link to, was written in 1995? -stevenM

== Existence confirmed? ==

Perhaps I was hasty. I will reconsider. Any other sources I might find enlightening, perhaps from a YEC perspective? [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 15:16, 7 January 2009 (EST)

[[Talk:Atheistic Style#Black Holes]] covers it quite well. I don't know of any evidence from a '''reliable''' source that shows the existence of Black holes. This "can't be directly observed" thing reminds me a bit too much of evolution. [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 12:16, 9 January 2009 (EST)
:Even wikipedia's article notes that all of the different pieces of evidence of a black hole are problematic and can be explained by other sources. [[User:RodWeathers|- Rod Weathers]] 12:21, 9 January 2009 (EST)

::This is why the article starts by stating "A black hole is a '''theoretical''' mass with an escape velocity greater than the speed of light. They cannot be observed directly, but several have been identified via indirect observation" I also don't see how NASA or UCLA Berkely are unreliable sources for astronomy. As for "can't be directly observed",there are numerous articles on CP related to Intelligent Design that don't rely on direct observations of a designer to discuss the apparent presence of design in nature.

::The beauty of science that it's always open to review and reassessment as new discoveries come to light. In time man's understanding of Black Holes may be different from this article, but we owe the readers the best current explanations available. I'm not suggesting censorship - all credible alternate theories should be listed, but stating that there have been no observations of one is false - by definition they are not directly observable, so proving they exist relies on indirect observation and physics. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 12:38, 9 January 2009 (EST)

:::There is no place called "UCLA Berkely".
:::ID is bolstered by the direct observation available from Genesis.
:::The best explanation is not always the explanation espoused by Californians.
:::We know how our universe began. If NASA & discovery.com deny it, they lose credibility, and their other statements come under greater scrutiny. If you met someone today who insisted that the sky is red and that Sears closes at 10, you would be wise to check the store hours yourself. [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 13:58, 9 January 2009 (EST)

::::Okay, my mistake regarding Berkely notwithstanding, my last reversion is based on two simple things. The word "is" should not be replaced by "would be" - it ''is'' a characteristic of black holes within the theory that describes them. Second, the use of [[Big Science]] as a term on CP was started by an admitted parodist, and equating NASA with it, frankly comes across as parody as well. Instead of diluting references to good science, spend more time supporting alternate explanations constructively. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 14:07, 9 January 2009 (EST)

:::::"Would be" is appropriate for hypothetical things. We say "Dole would have been a better President than Clinton," not "Dole was a better President than Clinton," even "within a theory that describes" Dole as being elected.
:::::"Big Science" was used in ''[[Expelled]]''. You don't think that was parody, do you?
:::::"Berkely" isn't a place, either.
:::::It seems like I'm the only one trying to make constructive edits towards a compromise. I guess this is not surprising, given the content on [[User:DinsdaleP]]. [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 14:26, 9 January 2009 (EST)

::::::BHarlan, I believe that you do not understand a small but important bit of information, most astronomical discoveries are collaborative efforts usually initiated by small independent astronomers. When you say big science you could classify biosciences like that, but astronomy is totally different.--[[User:Able806|Able806]] 14:19, 9 January 2009 (EST)

::::::The so-called "evidence" for Black holes does not fit a pattern like the one you describe. [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 14:26, 9 January 2009 (EST)

(unindent)

I'm not making any other changes to the revision just posted by Aschlafly. To BHarlan, I make no apologies for my User Page content. If the CP leadership wishes to block me over my [http://www.conservapedia.com/Special:Contributions/DinsdaleP contributions] they have the right to do so at any time, but I feel that my efforts here are constructive even when I disagree with others. Feel free to have the last word on this, I'm moving on to other topics. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 14:45, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Black holes have been spotted by a number of well-respected astronomical institutes for decades, with those discoveries tested and confirmed repeatedly. Your edits are unsupported by either fact or citation Andy, so under the rules youelf created I have no choice but to revert your edits, whereas the edits saying that black holes have been spotted are fully cited with references from reputable sources including NASA, an organisation fully backed by all US Governments, including conservative governments, since its inception.-[[User:Ieuan|Ieuan]] 15:47, 9 January 2009 (EST)

:Your sarcastic edit comments are not welcome here. You might want to check "youelf", else you might end up wrecking youelf.
:Also, you always have a choice! Do you deny this choice? That is a typical sentiment of materialists. If you do not believe in your soul, you will receive a nasty surprise pretty soon, and it won't just be the non-existence of black holes!
:Also, that is not how "whereas" is used in standard English.
:Also, NASA has taken a sad left turn as of late. This is one of the reasons the U.S.A.F. has its own space program. Do you see?
:Also, may God bless you. [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 16:10, 9 January 2009 (EST)

::My my, I miss a 's' in a typo and you decide to launch an ad hominem attack… Very 'christian' of you, or then again; not.
::''"Also, that is not how "whereas" is used in standard English".'' That might not be how you use it with your standard of English, but as anyone who has been taught the correct way to use the English language knows, it's perfectly correct. Oh, and a little, free, friendly lesson regarding the use of written English : You never start consecutive paragraphs with the same word unless it is absolutely necessary, which, in your above post it wasn't. If you are having trouble with your synonyms I heartily recommend using a thesaurus.
::The military space research programmes exist solely to explore the possible military applications of space. All civilian space programmes, including government projects run through the relevant Space Agencies (NASA, ESA, etc.). This is common knowledge amongst those who know anything about this subject.
::Stating that black holes don't exist is akin to believing the moon landing was faked. The existence of black holes and the fact that they have been spotted is undisputed by anyone who has the knowledge and experience to know what they are looking at. I have had the privilege of seeing two of these black holes myself. They are out there and have been spotted, and that is a direct, firsthand witness statement.
::May you be touched by his noodly appendage, or if that isn't your cup of tea, may you be blessed by the goat Heidrún. RAmen.-[[User:Ieuan|Ieuan]] 17:06, 10 January 2009 (EST)

:::* It's "an 's'", not "a 's'".
:::* If you missed just one 's', then that part of the sentence would read "under the rules youself created", which is ''still'' wrong.
:::* If you missed an 'r' and an 's', then that part of the sentence would read "under the rules yourself created", which is '''still''' wrong.
:::* An [[ad hominem]] attack means to reply to the logic in your arguments by attacking your character. I did no such thing. I didn't attack your character in any way. I asked if you were a materialist, then pointed out that materialists are Hell-bound. If you have a problem with your final resting place, I suggest you reconsider your path in life. I do not suggest that the Hell-bound are never able to make logical arguments.
:::* "Christian" is capitalized. Did you leave it uncapitalized on purpose? If so, I suggest you blaspheme somewhere else.
:::* That is not how semicolons are used in standard English.
:::* You need a comma after "but" for the aside.
:::* You do not need commas around "friendly", just like you don't need commas around "red" in "big red inflatable ball"
:::* I will not discuss the friendly lesson here, except to note that stylistic choices are different than maintaining correctness. Comma placement and word choice are different beasts.
:::* The sentence starting "All civilian" has no main verb, so I can't respond to it.
:::* Hyperbole about the moon landing is simply rhetoric. If there is no argument, there can be no response.
:::* Wikipedia may accept your anonymous evidence, but we are more careful here.
:::* Black holes can't be seen. What I suppose you mean is that you infer their existence. Your inference is not particularly convincing.
:::* Please take your graven goat pasta idols elsewhere. Here we show some simple respect for God.
:::* I am done with this pointless, blasphemous discussion. It is not encyclopedic. I suggest you contribute to this encyclopedia. It is a good way to improve your writing skills. I have been contributing partially for that reason. Maybe you could join me in adding articles and value, rather than taking the name of my Lord in vain?
:::* If you decide not to, you may have the last word here, as I will no longer reply to this silliness. I hope you will decide to contribute instead. [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 18:33, 10 January 2009 (EST)
:::: *Sigh* ''"a wit, an arrow, across the head it passed, an apple not pierced today"'', an 'r' and an 's', my apologies, how can such typos be left to pass, expecially when they are nothing to do with the argument at hand, well done for picking up such niggling detail, and yet avoiding the point of the argument. Admittedly I missed the n in an, but again, a typo, they happen. ''"Wikipedia may accept your anonymous evidence, but we are more careful here"'', how does evidence from NASA count as anonymous evidence?…at all?…in any way?…whatsoever? As for an ad hominen attack, your argument provided no evidence against the existence of black holes, merely an attack on myself, the purest definition of ad hominen (a course in Latin will help you there). Christian or christian, depends on how you want to write it and on your own beliefs. Me, not my belief, and as I don't believe I cannot blaspheme, after all, how can you blaspheme against something that does not exist to be blasphemed? Use of semicolons in standard English? Again, I refer you to the fact the your standard of English might not be sufficient to use them in such regard. I recommend increasing your quality of English by beginning with Chaucer and reading your way up. At some point you will realise that the use of English in any form is an art, not a science, and that language is to be used in such a way as to provoke delight, wonder and thought with its writing, and beyond the obvious rules of form, there are no hard and fast rules, merely that of metre, pace and illumination. ''"The sentence starting "All civilian" has no main verb, so I can't respond to it"'', '''run''', it's a verb, hard to miss, I'll admit to missing a comma (the sentence should read ''"All civilian space programmes, including government projects, run through the relevant Space Agencies (NASA, ESA, etc.)"'', but missing the word '''run''' *shakes head in disbelief*: if you insist on a purer form for that sentence, how about "All civilian space programmes, including government projects, are run through the relevant Space Agencies (NASA, ESA, etc.)", but all things being equal, both sentences say the same thing. Moon landing = the sum of evidence gathered concerning the existence of black holes, and that they have been spotted, is greater than the evidence that the moon landing occurred in 1969, hence the corollary. ''"Please take your graven goat pasta idols elsewhere. Here we show some simple respect for God"'', I found it offensive that you forced your beliefs on me, now you have found it offensive when I have forced my beliefs on you, with luck you will have learnt a lesson there, don't force your beliefs and prayers on me and I will return the favour by not blessing you with a little sarcastic FSM (oh, and a little FYI, the word graven means carved and I'm sure that the old FSM hasn't been carved yet and, in addition, I doubt that there are any extant carvings of Thor's goats, although I'm willing to admit that I might be wrong in that regard.)--[[User:Ieuan|Ieuan]] 22:13, 13 January 2009 (EST)

I have researched an extensive amount about black holes, and am about to add more information to the article that I hope will prove to be interesting and useful (I will, of course, cite my sources). I am also adding a couple of updates, as some of the information in the article is dated. As a topic about which scientists are still learning, that happens a lot. I hope the updates will improve the quality of the article and its use for educational purposes. [[User:BlueMoon|BlueMoon]] 15:26, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

== Impossible? ==

"A black hole is a theoretical prediction of the theory of relativity. It is impossible to prove that a black hole does not exist, and thus it fails the falsifiability requirement of science."

Actually in science we cannot prove with 100% certainty that ''anything'' does not exist, you cannot prove a negative. This opening sentence needs to be rewritten first for that reason, also for the fact that black holes have been indirectly observed via Accretion disks, gas jets, gravity lensing, radiation emissions, and other orbits of other stellar bodies. Also there is no other valid explanation in science for the aforementioned effects of a black hole that we observe. --[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] 17:00, 1 July 2009 (EST)

:No, that's the point- to be scientific, something has to be able to be proven wrong. That is a major part of the scientific method. For example, God is not a scientific concept, because you cannot disprove God. But to be science, one of the criterion is that the idea be able to be disproven.

:Falsifiability is not the ''only'' criterion for whether something is scientific, so perhaps black holes are not ''unscientific.'' But that opening is pretty much accurate. [[User:AddisonDM|AddisonDM]] 17:50, 1 July 2009 (EDT)

:: Black holes are falsifiable as a theory, because the observations generally accepted as caused by black holes ''could'' be causes something else, however there is no alternative theory ''at present'' to explain the phenomenon. However you cannot prove that a black hole ''could never'' exist just as you cannot prove atoms, or anything, could never exist. God is not a scientific theory not because it is impossible to absolutely disprove God (impossible to prove that God could never possibly exist) but because the supernatural cannot be shown to exist through science, which deals only with the natural universe, if you could present a theory God existed in science, that god would no longer be supernatural by definition.

:: Honestly I don't understand the objection to black holes, there is no conservative reason for it. --[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] 19:04, 1 July 2009 (EST)

:::The existence of black holes is ''not'' falsifiable. Surely you agree with that. Black holes cannot be observed either. Addison explained the flaw well above, but you seem intent on sticking with your beliefs. Believe what you like, but black holes do not satisfy any sensible definition of science.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:37, 1 July 2009 (EDT)

:::: The possible existence of anything is not falsifiable, black holes, quarks, gods, even godzilla, only theories are falsifiable, such as the theory that explain what black holes are and how they work. The present theories of black holes are falsifiable, but so far no one has successfully debunked them, or offer an alternate scientific theory for the phenomenon attributed to the effects and properties of black holes. We cannot observe an isolated quark directly, but we accept that theory.

:::: However I cannot change one's mind, that is fine, I made my objections known, I am not going to step on people's toes by attempting to change the page, I just believe it is scientifically incorrect in it's proclamation and could stand to be improved for a better article. I have said what I believe needed to be said and will end my part here, anyone feel free to respond with the last word or contact me privately. --[[User:BMcP|BMcP]] 21:07, 1 July 2009 (EST)

:::::Thank you for your interest. Note that atoms have actually been observed (in refutation of what you said above, "you cannot prove atoms, or anything, could never exist". I don't think the article will be changed though. Black holes are sort of on the fence between observable, testable physics, and "theoretical" physics, e.g. string theory. There are a million sources where you can get the standard overview of black holes. Why not have a different view here? Wikipedia does not even ''mention'' the issue of falsifiability, so we are doing a service to the scientific method by at least bringing it up- even if you think the article's conclusion is wrong. [[User:AddisonDM|AddisonDM]] 21:23, 1 July 2009 (EDT)

:::::In addition to Addison's comments, note that some theories ''are'' [[falsifiable]] (such as Newton's theory of gravity), while other theories are ''not'' falsifiable, such as the theory that black holes must exist or [[string theory]]. And when a theory is not falsifiable, it is not science. If BMcP proposes an alternative definition of science, then let's hear it, but I doubt he'll do better than [[Karl Popper]] in making [[falsifiability]] part of the definition.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:45, 1 July 2009 (EDT)

Guys, this is becoming quite the argument; however, it is unnecessary because the idea that black holes exist ''is'' falsifiable. If NASA sends probes out to nearby black holes (which would take a long time, but it's possible), and they all turn out to be ancient Spartans in spaceships or whatever, then scientists will conclude that black holes don't exist and start working on how Spartans came to be in space and why they have accretion disks, etc. So black holes are falsifiable, and this argument is a source of unnecessary tension. [[User:BlueMoon|BlueMoon]] 12:55, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Atheistic Style

2009-06-26T15:35:18Z

BlueMoon: My personal experience would indicate this article is wrong in some places and does not give an acurrate view of how to tell if an article is written by an atheist.

== Where's the problem? ==
You certainly have a point, people do need to start making citations for what they write. But what is the problem with marking the entry being without citations, it is 100% true. I thought we didn't censor due to ideological reasons here. Therefore I am reverting it. Andy if you can give me a good reason for why marking an article as "uncited" when it has '''zero''' citations is wrong then I will leave it alone.

: "Lynus", you have to make a contribution before you starting complaining. Got it?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:03, 5 January 2009 (EST)

::Wait, so I can't mark an article as "unsourced" even though it is unsourced? Why even have the tag enabled? You even agree that it is unsourced so why can I not tag it with something truthful?--[[User:Lynus|Lynus]] 20:08, 5 January 2009 (EST)
::: I have looked for citations. And have not been able to find any that support the claim that it is common for atheists to ascribe to #s 3,4,5,6,8,most of 9, and 11. I have also found that the others are worded poorly (9,10,7,8,and 3) A number of the posts (9) in particular is wrong on multiple levels. If you like I can re-work the entire article into a more encyclopedic entry, however I figured that I should ask first here and point out the flaws present in the article before changing things unilaterally since people seem to go missing if they do that around here. --[[User:ScottA|ScottA]] 22:18, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:::No that wasn't against you. For some reason the page displayed a giant Hitler picture and yours was the last edit since Andys and thats why I reverted it. Apparently is was a template issue.--[[User:Lynus|Lynus]] 22:45, 5 January 2009 (EST)

:::Ah my apologies. Ill remove the accusation. On another note, Andy. Blackholes can be detected. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7774287.stm , http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080723142119.htm --[[User:ScottA|ScottA]] 23:46, 5 January 2009 (EST)

==Childish==
Isn't this a bit childish? [[User:JosiahB|JosiahB]] 11:14, 30 November 2007 (EST)

In what ways? --[[User:BethanyS|~BCS]][[User talk:BethanyS|Talk2'''ME''']] 11:16, 30 November 2007 (EST)
:It's just a personal essay, based on solely personal opinion, and not really wholly true at that. I've proposed for deletion. [[User:TheEvilSpartan|TheEvilSpartan]] 23:25, 3 January 2008 (EST)

::I agree, that this is wholly based on assumptions. How do you support an article deletion? [[User:VonShroom|VonShroom]] 17:33, 3 March 2008 (EST)
:::As this page was created by the site owner I wouldn't even consider suggesting that the article should be deleted. [[User:BrianCo|BrianCo]] 18:06, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Josiah and "TheEvilSpartan", let's improve the entry. Think positively, not negatively.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:11, 3 March 2008 (EST)

: If you wish to nominate the page for deletion you need to insert the delete template at the top of the page. See [[Templates|here]] for template information. However, I should warn you that as this article was written by Andy Schlafly it does not need to contain any citations. That is one of the unwritten rules of Conservapedia. Further, the delete notice will likely be removed by one of the sysop/acolytes, probably Crocoite (see, for example, [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Hollywood_values&diff=385539&oldid=385523 here]). And it is quite likely that you will be blocked (see, for example [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=Crocoite&page=User%3AGDewey here]). --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 18:14, 3 March 2008 (EST)

:: That's false about me. This is a work-in-progress and much of it is indisputable. The demands that it be deleted are obviously ideological, and we do not allow liberal censorship here. That should be obvious. Thanks and Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:30, 3 March 2008 (EST)

::: Really? Let's see shall we? --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 18:34, 3 March 2008 (EST)

Has anyone here ever talked to a real atheist? Sit down and have a chat with me and you'll soon see that there is a reason there is no citations on this page. Heck, I'll even null out a few of your points; Newton definitely was motivated by religion (I do believe that he was out to use the gift of intelligence), some of the most influential scientists have been religious. Me personally, I think that not believing something/someone created everything makes everything more beautiful (personally I love micro-biology, those little critters are so fascinating), as they just came together that way (in reference to a depressed world-view). Of course, I think there are problems out there now, but I know that we as people can fix them. As for arbitrary concepts such as love, I'm not sure how they came about (please do not tell me God) but they are great emotions and provide different degrees of functional guidance (morals and such). Pleas do not think I am being a smartaleck or sarcastic, as my personal beliefs are some of the few things I never joke around about.--[[User:Snotbowst|Snotbowst]] 23:19, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Smarter ==

I'd like to think that we ''are'' smarter then 100 years ago, but I'm bot an atheist.

On another note: This article is among a series that make Conservapedia a laughing stock, if we really want to be taken seriously, we should refrain from this. In what other Encyclopedia would you find something like this? [[User:DLerner|DLerner]] 19:37, 3 March 2008 (EST)

: DLerner, if you fear mockery, then you won't make much progress finding and spreading the truth. A little more concern about the truth and less concern about who among the less informed are laughing would be beneficial to you.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:51, 3 March 2008 (EST)

: : I don't fear mockery, but this is supposed to be an encyclopedia! Now, if their is research showing that atheists are prone to such styles then go right ahead, but for some reason I have a feeling this is someones personal feeling towards atheists - though he/she has every right to have such feelings, I really can't see a basis for publishing them in an encyclopedia. (As an essay this would be wonderful, but as an article?) [[User:DLerner|DLerner]] 19:57, 3 March 2008 (EST)

::It's not that we fear mockery, it's that this article invites - no, deserves - mockery. There are no references to back up what is said - it's just the author's thoughts. Some of it is just wrong based on personal experience (Conservapedia allows contributions based on personal experience, doesn't it?). Conservapedia would be better off without it. [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 12:51, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
::Incidentally I ''love'' the bit about how atheists have "a perception (often wrong) of what most people think". That describes the author of this article. Are we sure this isn't a parody introduced by someone trying to make us look bad?) [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 12:55, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

'''

== My Fundamentalist Alterations ==

'''

Yeesh, I edited this page about 4 months ago in an attempt to make the content so laughably fallacious, uninformed, assertive and double-standard laden that it shouldnt have lasted the day. Its both amusing and depressing to see it here some 16+ weeks later...

"overreliance and a dependance on often OUTDATED TEXTS."

Hmm

"a refusal to recognize how democracy relies on Christianity, and how no atheistic culture has ever managed to sustain a lasting democracy"

Aside from, erm, oh yeah, most of the countries in Europe...

"a generally pessimistic, worthless and depressing view of life"

Lol, well Im not surprised this one managed to stay up...

"an unshakeable faith...in life in outer space"

Hahahaha,

Oh very dear...

Think critically people, good day to you...

== Merging ==

Conservative and I have been working on [[Atheist beliefs]], and it seems like the content of this page might be incorporated into it, seeing as most of the listings are in fact beliefs. Thoughts? [[User:RodWeathers|- Rod Weathers]] 16:55, 7 January 2009 (EST)

== Black Holes ==

Have [[Black Hole]]s been detected yet? There's a nascent discussion going on at that page. [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 11:39, 8 January 2009 (EST)
:If I'm not mistaken—and that ''does'' happen more often than I'd like—I don't believe that they've ever been directly observed. Just a lack of light and the gravity that it produces leads some scientists to believe in their existance, but I'm no scientist. [[User:JLauttamus|Jeffrey W. Lauttamus]][[User_talk:JLauttamus|Discussion]] 11:41, 8 January 2009 (EST)
[http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16356-2008-the-year-in-astronomy.html 2008: The year in astronomy].--[[User:Ieuan|Ieuan]] 12:00, 8 January 2009 (EST)

:I just don't trust Big Astronomy on this issue. It's really hard to find reliable sources in the area, since most claim things that are really just silly and bizarre. For this reason, I discount most "discoveries" from that area. I mean, these people "discovered" the Big Bang! [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 12:46, 8 January 2009 (EST)
::What is "Big Astronomy"'s motive in falsifying data about black holes? Their existence has little, if anything, to do with the theory of the Big Bang and presents no problem for Creationism. [[User:Commodore Guff|KevinS]] 13:36, 8 January 2009 (EST)

::: Outrageous claims about black holes sell lots of magazines to lots of naive people. And let's not forget that [[liberals]] get a thrill out of [[deceit]] for its own sake alone.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:51, 8 January 2009 (EST)
:::: So it's your contention that black holes don't exist? Despite the fact that [http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/chandra/news/07-112.html NASA] have spotted them? Are you saying that NASA is lying? Given that your [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Black_hole&diff=604724&oldid=604696 brother] also believes NASA, are you saying your brother is naive?-[[User:Ieuan|Ieuan]] 15:47, 9 January 2009 (EST)

::::: What a bizarre comment! NASA hasn't really "spotted" them, they '''inferred''' them. These scientists infer many other things which we know to be false. This reduces their credibility.
::::: Do you never disagree with your brother? Has your brother never been wrong? Has your brother never been tricked by men seeking to do evil, or men who were fooled, themselves? [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 16:18, 9 January 2009 (EST)
::::::"What a bizarre comment! NASA hasn't really "spotted them, they "inferred " them." Only two problems with that statement: i) The staggering ignorance you have shown about the work carried out in the detection of singularity objects (are you even aware of how such objects are spotted? No, didn't think so); and ii) I assume that when you see a dog you only infer that it is a dog because you haven't carried out a full genetic check of the animal and the wealth of other evidence provided isn't good enough for you (oh, and if you are having trouble equating point ii with the discussion at hand - it's called a metaphor and is used as a teaching aid). As for the point about brothers is it your contention that RSchlafly is too dense, ignorant, dumb and stupid to study the evidence and come to his own conclusions? Are you saying that he blindly follows whatever somebody tells him to do or think? Is that how you have at the beliefs or knowledge you have? Are you saying that RSchlafly's knowledge of physics isn't good enough for him to independently study the evidence, despite the impressive depth of knowledge he has already shown about such matters on this site? Why do you equate the discovery of black holes with 'evil'? Do they threaten your beliefs in some way? If it does then why? No scientific discovery has ever threatened my belief and faith. Papal astronomers are perfectly happy with the fact that black holes exist and have been spotted, are you now claming to know more about science and faith than those who serve the church that is the foundation of your particular religion (assuming you are a christian)? Are you even aware that papal astronomers and the Holy See have stated that the possibility of alien life existing ''" does not clash with christian belief"''?-[[User:Ieuan|Ieuan]] 13:08, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Given that they get their news from places like [http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/chandra/news/07-112.html NASA]…--[[User:Ieuan|Ieuan]] 12:52, 8 January 2009 (EST)

:Well they didn't "discover" the big bang theory persay, though they have made many observations to support it. See [http://www.astro.ubc.ca/people/scott/faq_basic.html here]. [[User:JLauttamus|Jeffrey W. Lauttamus]][[User_talk:JLauttamus|Discussion]] 12:55, 8 January 2009 (EST)

:: "persay" isn't a word, and nobody said they "'discovered' the big bang theory". I said they "'discovered' the Big Bang". Do you see the difference? If you open your eyes, you will see. You will see.
:: Also, may God bless you. [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 16:21, 9 January 2009 (EST)

:Yay, black holes in an argument. But back onto topic...BHarlan, if you mean by 'discovered' that they have actually seen a sigularity, or watched a mass become spaghettified as it reaches the hole, then no. Science has only inferred that they exist by pinpointing areas that are completely dark, surrounded by a 'ring' of light [The edge of the Event Horizon]. Thus, they have theorized that something, most likely a star collapsed upon itself, is producing enough gravity in the area to pull in even particles [or waves, depending on your slant] of light. That is how science works. A true scientist never says 'I know for certain that...', but 'I have observed and believe that...' in their hypotheses. Which means that even though the theory is sound, it could be wrong, and therefor corrected. [[User:CodyH|CodyH]] 11:43 28 March 2009 (CST)

:: No, that isn't "how science works." Real science observes first, then derives math to explain the observations. Black holes are a magazine-type concept, an extension of mathematics, that were not observed first and in fact have not been observed in a meaningful way ever. It's amusing that some fall for this popularized concept, just as they fell for extraterrestrial life several decades ago.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:50, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

:::Regarding "[[User:CodyH|CodyH]] 11:43 28 March 2009 (CST)": Cody, are you "editing from the future" as a comment on your belief in black holes? It won't convince people here.
:::I won't add to Aschlafly's comments except to say that the [[Black Hole]] page needs a serious rewrite to remove both honest mistakes and DinsdaleP-style confusion. Unfortunately, I don't have time for that right now. [[User:BHarlan|BHarlan]] 13:10, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

:::: The existence of black holes has been shown mathematically possible (and necessary under certain conditions) and matter has been observed falling into them. As for the way science works, if future observations disprove the existence of black holes (which is considered to be unlikely) then the idea of black holes will be thrown out as erroneous and new ideas will be generated to explain the data. That is the beauty of science: it is not afraid to find its own errors and fix them. And by the way, NASA gets its money from the government. If it was allowed to make money and sell magazines, we'd have had manned missions to Mars by now. However, the potential conflict of interest you pointed out is exactly why that's not allowed.

:::: As for the actual article "Atheistic Styles," allow me to make my statements on the issue as an agnostic and friend of several atheists: 1: If democracy was first practiced in pre-Christian Greece, how does democracy rely on Christianity? Also, Israel is a Jewish state with a functioning democratic system.

::::2: Many atheists credit the faith of Newton, Galileo, etc. for inspiring them to devote their lives to studying the beauty of the universe.

::::3: I do not know of any atheists who disbelieve in the concepts of love, honor, and beauty. Indeed, many substitute faith in the universe's beauty for faith in a church.

::::4: Whether a person chooses atheism or faith is considered a matter of upbrining at least as much as intelligence. There are stupid atheists and devout geniuses, and this is fine (it is true, however, that many atheists consider intelligence and reason to be the best things about being human).

::::5: Atheists don't think humans have been getting smarter, per se, rather than having more time to study and accumulate data. More data leads to better conclusions, and thus to a more accurate picture of the world.

::::6: Regardless of how much is out there to learn, we sure know a lot more than Isaac Newton. Both eras may well be right. Also, "most" is relative. There are enough mysteries out there to last us all a long time.

::::7: Relativism, yes. Materialism, no.

::::8: Goodness no! All the atheists I know regard life as fun, interesting, and generally a good thing. Atheists who happen to be scientists are characterized by the scientist's typical love of discovery and fascination with the world. When one is paid to probe the mysteries of the universe, this isn't surprising.

::::9: Scientists don't have "unshakable faith" in any of these concepts. If evidence comes along that disproves the existence of any of them, that concept will be thrown out and replaced by one that is consistent with all observable data. So far, however, all the evidence we have supports these things as existing.

::::10: This isn't true. Atheists, like everyone else, respect the accomplishments of the best and brightest and give them awards and praise.

::::11: There is no known correlation between atheism and any of these traits.

::::12: Being forced to pray to a god that isn't yours is offensive. A Christian being told by his teacher to pray to Vishnu would offend Christians, and a Muslim being told to pray to Jesus would offend Muslims. Ditto for an atheist being forced to pray to anybody. As for censorship, any student can pray any time s/he likes as long as it doesn't distract his/her classmates.

::::13: I do hope that humanity is moving towards a utopia. I also hope that science's contributions (medicine, renewable energy, spaceflight, etc.) and the contributions of other religions will be recognized for their usefulness in this effort. Also, what are Christianity's contributions to human progress, other than inspiring scientists to work for the benefit of mankind? Please don't say discrimination against homosexuals; I like my utopias egalitarian with a side of tolerance.

:::: If nobody else objects, I would like to rewrite this article for clarity, accuracy, and non-offensiveness. As this article was apparently written by a parodist, and he wants it down too, I doubt anyone will mind, but I don't want to be overhasty. [[User:BlueMoon|BlueMoon]] 11:35, 26 June 2009 (EDT)

Judaism

2009-06-25T02:34:48Z

BlueMoon:

[[Image:StarofDavid.gif|right|thumb|The Star of David, a symbol of Judaism]]
'''Judaism''' was the first [[monotheistic religion]], dating back to around 2000 BC. Like [[Christianity]] and [[Islam]], Judaism is an [[Abrahamic faith]], tracing its origins to [[Abraham]]. Judaism was the first of the Abrahamic faiths. The core of the Judaism as it exists today took shape from a later time period when [[Moses]] led the [[Hebrews]] from [[Egypt]] and climbed [[Mount Sinai]], bringing back the [[Ten Commandments]].

The five books of Moses (the [[Torah]]), in which the [[Mosaic Law]] is found, are generally considered to be the core of the Jewish Scripture, and are supplemented by the works of the prophets and other writings. The works of the prophets are grouped under Nevi'im, and the other writings are known as Ketuvim. The first letters of each part combined were used to create the name of the full Hebrew Bible: the Tanakh, which Christians call the [[Old Testament]]. The [[Talmud]] is another ancient Jewish writing considered by some Jews to contain traditions dating back to Moses himself, yet the Talmud also contains discussion by rabbis involving extensive disagreement and lively discussion, over interpretation of these traditions. The Talmud is not part of the [[Bible]] and the degree to which the Talmud itself is considered to be inspired varies across Judaism, with the [[Orthodox Judaism|Orthodox]] generally giving it the most weight.

[[Jesus]] was one of many Jewish teachers who disagreed with the Jewish authorities during his lifetime. He founded a new school of thought, which flourished even after his death and eventually became [[Christianity]]. Christians consider him to be the [[Messiah]] and even consider him to be the [[Son of God]]. Jews on the other hand, do not believe Jesus is either the messiah nor God's son. Jesus has no religious significance in Judaism at all, though some Jews may admire him as a moral teacher.

==Sabbath==
[[Image:Menora exb HSTR7337.jpg|right|thumb|Yarmulke and Menorah]]
Many Jews observe a weekly day of rest (the [[Sabbath]]) that begins shortly before sundown on Friday and ends after sunset on Saturday. During this time no work may be done, business transactions are forbidden, and light switches are not to be turned on or off. Jews celebrate the Sabbath by lighting candles before the Sabbath, singing songs, going to synagogue, called shul, by some, and learning.

==Denominations==
There are many different branches of Judaism. There are four large branches. They are from the most traditional to the least:
*[[Orthodox Judaism|Orthodox]]
*[[Conservative Judaism|Conservative]]
*[[Reform Judaism|Reform]]
*[[Reconstructionist|Reconstruction]]

==Ethnicities==
*[[Sephardi]] Jews.
*[[Mizrahi (sometimes spelled Mizrachi)|Mizrahi]] Jews.
*[[Ashkenazi]] Jews.

===The Diaspora===
"Diaspora" (Greek meaning "seeded throughout") is the term used to refer to the various dispersions of the Jews throughout the world through the eras of history. Its Hebrew linguistic forerunner is "Galut" meaning the "uncovering", betraying the understanding that being exiled from the Land of Israel is an exposing of Israel to vulnerability and danger. Some commonly known "Galuyot" (plural for Galut) are:

* the forced exile and assimilation among other peoples of the Northern Tribes of Israel by the Assyrians in 721, 722. Modern Israel has recognized among the ingathering of this exile (Kibbuts Galuyot) the ''Bnei Menashe'' (Sons of Manessaeh) of northern [[India]]. These members of the "Lost Tribe" are now allowed to freely immigrate to Israel under the Law of Return. ''(see [[Religion in India]])''

* the ''Falashas'' of [[Ethiopia]], among whom, like the Bnei Menashe, Jewish practices such as circumcision at 8 days and the keeping of Passover are maintained by those eligible for citizenship under the Israeli Law of Return. The are racially native African in appearance. They believe themselves to have become Jewish from the days of Solomon and the Queen of Ethiopia. That was the basis for the Ethiopian emperor Haile Selase (Holy Trinity) taking the title "Lion of the Tribe of Judah".

* The Galut of Babylon, the so called "''Iraqis''" exiled by the Babylonians at the time of their conquest of Judah and Jerusalem (c. 538 B.C.) This Galut developed a rival to Palestinian Jewry of the first centuries and provided the second corpus of religious literature to the developing Talmud. This was in the common language of Babyon at the time - Aramaic. This corpus came to be called the Gemara ("completion"). The [[Gemara]] dates from about 200 A.D.to 500 A.D. The Gemara and the earlier Palestinian Hebrew corpus, the Mishna, dating from 200 B.C. to 200 A.D. comprise the Talmud, which regulated most of Jewish internal life, until the western European "emancipation" and assimilation of the Jews - starting in the 18th and 19th centuries. The Talmud is still regulatory for Orthodox Jews.

*The Galut of the Jews by the Roman [[Titus]] after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 A.D. They were triumphantly displayed in Rome and dispersed in the lands along the Rhine Valley known in the Hebrew tongue as Ashkenaz - which is known now as Germany. There they learned the language of the land which developed into Modern German. The Jews called their language, the early stage of German, Yiddish. From the Rhine, many of the "''Ashkenazis''" moved (were moved) to Eastern Europe, many fleeing from there, to America, to Israel, to Latin America, etc. learning new languages, but also speaking their old language, not Hebrew, but Yiddish. This, with the common religion, enabled the fostering of unity and brotherhood.

*the 1492 A.D. exile from [[Spain]], where the Jews had previously settled in the time of the [[Moors]] and some attaining to high positions and appointments as physicians, prime ministers, and poets under the Islamic conquest. This was the Golden Age of Jewry in Spain. At their expulsion ("gerush") from Spain they settled mainly around the Mediterranean basin - North Africa, Greece, Turkey, and also many going to Holland and from there to the American Colonies. The first synagogue in America was created due to this dispersion. These Jews soon were speaking the language of the their host countries - Arabic, Turkish etc. but also speaking the language of Old Spain. "Spain" in Hebrew is Sefarad, so the language is Sephardic and the dispersion is of the ''Sephardim'' (sometimes spelled Sepharadim).

*the Yemenites (''Temanim''). Yemen means "right (direction)" in Semitic languages. When facing the temple from the west, the "right" points south. Therefore, "Teiman" also means "south". This dispersion is the southerly dispersion to what is now Yemen, gaining momentum during the Himyaritic Kindom in Yemen which had adopted Judaism. With the founding of the Modern State of Israel, most Yemenite Jews have immigrated to Israel and speak Arabic as well as Hebrew.

The term "''Mizrachi''" means "easterner" and it covers a number of eastern dispersions as opposed to the Ashkenazi who were westerners - from Europe. Coming into Israel during Ottoman Turk rule (1517-1917), many immigrating Jewish families who were not European were given the name Mizrahi by the Turkish immigration authorities as they were all "lumped together" as Easterners.

The Return of the Jews to Israel is seen as a fulfillment of the Scriptures and is called Kibbutz Galuyot, the ingathering of the Exiles. Here are some of the scriptures that both tell about the ingathering of the exiles and which have provided a major influence for the some of the dispersions to return to the Land of Israel:

" I will bring your offspring from the east, and gather you from the west, To the north I will say 'Give them up', and to the south, 'Do not hold them'. Bring back my sons from far away, my daughters from the end of the earth. Isaiah 43: 5,6

"Those whom Adonai has redeemed return, they come to Zion shouting for joy. everlasting joy in their faces, joy and gladness go with them, sorrow and lament are ended." Isaiah 51:11

"He who has scattered Israel, gathers him, He guards them as a shepherd guards his flock...they shall come back from the enemy country, There is hope for your descendants" Jeremiah 31: 10,16

"The Lord says this: 'I am going to take the sons of Israel from the nations, where they have gone. I shall gather them together from everywhere and bring them home to their own soil. I shall make them into one nation and into My own land and on the mountains of Israel.'" . Exekiel 37:21,22

==Main Holidays==
:''Main article: [[Jewish holidays]]''

*'''[[Rosh Hashanah]]'''--New Years. Marks the creation of the world.

*'''[[Yom Kippur]]'''--the Day of Atonement. Observant Jews consume no food or drink for the entire day.

*'''[[Pesach]]'''--celebrating the liberation from Egyptian slavery. Observant Jews hold a special festive meal, called a ''Seder,'' on the eve of Passover and do not eat leavened bread for the duration of the festival.

*'''Shavuot'''-- Pentecost or Feast of Weeks. Traditionally celebrates God's giving the Ten Commandments at Mt. Sinai.

*'''Sukkot''' --Tabernacles or Feast of Booths. Observant Jews eat and sleep in temporary shelters shaded by cut vegetation.

*'''Shemini Atzeret and Simchat Torah'''--The day after Sukkot is a separate holiday, known as the "Eighth Day Feast." It also marks the completion of the cycle of reading the Torah in synagogues. The end of Deuteronomy is read, followed by the first chapter of Genesis.

*'''[[Purim]]'''--celebrates the thwarting of a plot to kill all Jews it is recorded in the Book of Esther, which is read aloud in its entirety in the synagogue.

*'''Tisha B'Av'''--also known as the Ninth of Av, 9th of Av, is a fast day that mourns the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.

*'''[[Chanukah]]''' (there are several English spellings)--celebrates the re-dedication of the Temple after the revolt against the Greeks recorded in the Talmud and other non-Biblical texts. Jews light candles each night for eight nights, adding one candle each night. Chanukah is not a holiday recorded in the Bible and is considered a minor holiday from a religious standpoint, however from a secular Jewish perspective it has taken on a position of great prominence in modern times passing all other holidays as far as degree to which it is celebrated.

==Calendar==
The Jewish calendar combines lunar and solar features. During Temple times, months began when the new moon was sighted in Jerusalem. An extra month was added when needed to keep the Pesach festival in the spring. Today a complex algorithm, over a thousand years old, is used to determine when months begin. As a result, the dates of the Jewish holidays in the civil calendar vary from year to year.

==Jewish Scripture==
Jewish Scripture consists of 24 books, broken down into three sections:

*'''[[Torah]]'''--The Five Books of [[Moses]]: [[Genesis]] (Bereshit), [[Exodus]] (Shemot), [[Leviticus]] (Vayikra), [[Numbers]] (Bamidbar) and [[Deuteronomy]] (Devarim).

*'''Nevi'im''' --The Prophets: Joshua (Yehoshua), Judges (Shoftim), Samuel (Shmuel), Kings, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the 12 minor prophets

*'''Ketuvim'''---The Writings: [[Psalms]], Proverbs, Job), Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, [[Esther (Biblical book)|Esther]], [[Daniel (Biblical book)|Daniel]], Ezra, Chronicles.

The Torah is divided into portions that are read during synagogue services over the course of the liturgical year. Jews refer to all 24 scrolls as the ''Tanakh,'' an acronym of the three sections. The Old Testament is the Tanakh, except with some different naming and a different ordering than the Jewish version. Some Jews find the term Old Testament to be offensive, as its meaning can be interpreted to mean the covenant of God with the Jews has been superseded and no longer applies.

==The Twelve Tribes of Israel==
The most famous of the tribes of Israel is Judah. From Judah's descendants, lineage, came [[King David]] ''“your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever”'' 2 Samuel 7:16, as did [[Jesus Christ]] '' 'The promised Messiah of Israel would come from the “house of David.”' '' Acts 13:34. No matter what tribe you originate from, all are considered Israeli.

In the [[Old Testament]], father Abraham's grandson Jacob, Isaac's son, his family would make up the 12 tribes. Jacob came to be known as the father of Israel, for it is written God changed his name to Israel. <ref>[http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/tribeisr.htm The Tribes Of Israel by Wayne Blank] The Church of God Bible Studsy</ref> The descendants of these twelve 'sons' of Jacob became the twelve tribe's of Israel.

In Northern Israel [[Gad]], [[Reuben]], [[Simeon]], [[Dan]], [[Naphtali]], [[Asher]], [[Issachar]], [[Zebulun]] and [[Joseph]]. In Southern Israel, the tribes [[Benjamin]] and [[Judah]]. The [[Levi]] were to serve as as the priests and their assistance for all tribes having their own levitical cities within the other tribes while having no land as inheritance for for themselves.

Each tribe was composed of a group of families, united by blood ties and constituting a social and political unit. As time went on, the stronger tribes tended to absorb the weaker ones. <ref>[http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=762510356&vv=450 Twelve Tribes of Israel] MSN Encarta</ref>
After the death of King Solomon, and in the time of his son, Rehoboam, the 12 tribes divided into two camps, the south was known as [[Judah]] with Jerusalem as their capital. The 10 Northern tribes made up the kingdom of Israel whose capital was [[Samaria]]. In 721/2 B.C. , the northern kingdom of Israel was conquered and the elite and powerful taken away by the Assyrians (leaving the weak and powerless) and resettled among various client kingdoms of their empire. The Assyrians, in like manner, settled other conquered peoples in various places of conquered Israel in order to dilute and weaken the population causing them to be compliant to the Assyrian overlords. This is how the "Samarians" were to arise, present in the time of Jesus and and present to this day - a mixed semi-judaized population with their religious center on Mt. Gerizim in Samaria rivaling Jerusalem. The northern dispersion came to be called popularly "the Lost 10 Tribes of Israel". But some of the "10 Lost Tribes" were not lost. At the time of Assyrian conquest of Israel, archaeology reveals, the city walls of the capitol city of the Southern Kingdom, Jerusalem, were suddenly and greatly expanded. This is because, it is thought, of the sudden influx to the southern brothers of the fleeing northerners. See also in the Diaspora section above, the Bnei Menashe, and see [http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/973487.html]

The Southern Kingdom was conquered by Babylonians in 586/7 B.C. with much population taken to Babylon, which was to become a center for Judaism (and the Babylonian Talmud) rivaling Jerusalem itself. Cyrus, Emperor of Persia was to allow the Jews to return to their ancestral homeland, but many Jews preferred to remain in Babylon (most of these "Iraqis" would return to Israel with the erection of the modern State of Israel).

Alexander the Great, 333 B.C. would wrest the Middle East, and "Judah" with it, from the hands of the Persians, and after him, at the breakup of his Empire into Seleucid (northern) and Ptolomaic (southern) parts, the Seleucids took control of the Judah and Galilee (bringing "[[Hellenism]]" - the amalgamation of Greek with local cultures), and the occasion for the the revolt of the Jews against Seleucid overlord Antiochus and the beginning of the celebration among the Jews of [[Hanukah]] - the remembrance of the successful revolt, the setting up once again of a Jewish Kingdom in the promised land, and the re-dedication ("Hanukah") of the Temple (which had been desecrated). In 63 A.D., Pompey and the Roman rule would wrest power from the Hellenistic Greeks, and thus the Roman rule in the Land at the time of Jesus. The Kingdom of Judah, with its King Herod, was intended by Rome to be a buffer state between Rome and its hated adversary Kingdom - that of Persia. In this context there arose, another movement, followers of "the way" of Jesus, the forefront of another Kingdom, that was not of this world, the leading servants of which, would sit on the seats of the now ''12 tribes'' of Israel, and knowing themselves, as the "Israel of God".

Note: Among modern Jews, there is no knowledge of descent from any of the particular tribe of the 12 tribes of Israel, except Jews with the family name of Levi or Cohen (and a very few others). "Levi" is from the tribe of levites and means "accompanier", that is the ones who accompany the priest and offering assistance in the service of the Temple. "Cohen" means priest. With the last great dispersion from the Holy Land, that of 70 AD at the hands of the Romans, with its destruction of "the House" - the Temple of God, the levitical and priestly families, now exiled to Rome and Italy were careful to record and remember their genealogies back to the tribe of Levi, as it would be they who would once again be called to function when God when would make possible the return to the Land of Israel and the rebuilding of the Temple.

==Post Biblical Jewish Development and Literature==
The Jewish [[canon]] of Scripture was defined at the Jamnia (Yavneh) on the Mediterranean coast of Israel at 90A.D., about two decades after the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple in Jerusalem by the Romans. Jews now also lived in great numbers outside of the Land of Israel, particularly in Mesopotamia (the Land between the Rivers of the Euphrates and the Tigris), and in Alexandria, Egypt. Mesopotamian Jewry, with its large core from the exile to Babylon continually added to, was mainly Aramaic speaking while Egyptian Jewry was Greek speaking. Aramaic Jewry began the translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into [[Aramaic]], this came to be known as the [[Peshitta]] ("simple" or common). This development was accelerated particularly when the queen of [[Adiabene]], Helena (Shlomzion HaMalka, converted with others to Judaism. The Old Testament Peshitta (there is also the New Testament Peshitta as believers in Jesus translated the Greek New Testament into Aramaic) contains influence from the Jewish literature known as the [[Targum]]. Queen Helena was buried in Jerusalem around 70 A.D.

The Alexandrian Jews also translated, even earlier, the Torah into their language, Greek. Later books were added to the Septuagint by anonymous translators. This is known as the Septuagint (translated by 70 or 72 Jewish scholars). The Septuagint was used by Greek speaking Jews and was naturally turned to by the Greek speaking believers in Jesus. Later Jewish scholars retranslated the Bible into Greek, as the Septuagint was seen as having issues in translations of words, these translations were done by Symmachus, Aquilas, and Theodotios, all converts to Judaism. Around the same time of this process, the Rabbinical School at Jamnia (Yavneh) under Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai, decided that what was canonical for Judaism was only those books which had already been accepted as Scripture and were found in the Hebrew language. This eliminated most of the Apocrypha which was found mostly in Greek and Latin (but the book of Ecclesiasticus - "Ben Sirach" - has now been found in Hebrew and considered canonical by the Dead Sea community of Jews) as well as elevating the ''Hebrew'' Scriptures over just the Scriptures of Israel no matter in which language. Eventually over time, not only did the Septuagint drop out of Jewish usage, but so did the other Greek translations.
They were replaced by various translations of the Bible into Aramaic, one of the best known of these was the translation by Onkelos, a convert to Judaism, although Jewish scholars still used the Hebrew translation of the Bible, the laity preferred the Aramaic translations because Hebrew became out of use expect for Jewish scholars.

===="Jamnia" and Protestantism====
Though the connection of Jamnia and Protestantism is little known, it is a real one and one that exerted much influence on the developing Protestant Church and its outlook. The Hebrew canon of Scripture with its emphasis on Hebrew language originals sanctioned at Jamnia, which would exclude the Jewish but Greek language books we now know as Intertestamental or Apocryphal, would be the basis of a continuing textual study and ammendation according to the passing on of readings and comments by succeeding Jewish authorities, scholars, and rabbis. This work would be carried on through the fifth century, the time of the Masoretes - the "tradition (of Scripture) bearers". The receiving and handing on of how Scripture texts were to be read and sung, and what they meant.

When the [[Renaissance]] took hold in Europe, great interest was shown in the rediscovering both of the Greek classics, entailing the renewed study of Greek for this purpose, and the study of Hebrew language. Here now was the possibility for many scholars, and the emerging Protestant ones among them, to study the Hebrew Scriptures directly in the original language instead of the necessity of working through the Greek ([[Septuagint]]) and Latin ([[Vulgate]]) translations. But the Hebrew source resorted to by these scholars was the [[Masoretic]] text - following the School of Jamnia - without the Apocrypha. From then on, the heritage and perspective of the Protestant Reformation churches was that the Bible excluded the Apocrypha, though some of the churches would use the Apocrypha as "secondary" readings.

===The Talmud===
In Israel, there arose a literature, mainly in the common Hebrew of the day. It is known as the Mishna ("secondary"). This was primarily the recordings of discussions of Biblical laws with view to application to the present life and experience of Jews in Israel and in the [[diaspora]]. Changing conditions required more current applications. The Mishna developed over four centuries (200 B.C. to 200 A.D.) and is divided into 6 orders, numerous tractates, and smaller units (mishnayot). Most of the Mishna is comprised of "''Halakha''"- that is, legal discussions, decisions, having, in many cases, enforceable applications either by the Jewish community directly or by the Roman or otherwise authorities. The non legal aspects of the Mishna - the anecdotes, stories, remembrances of the rabbinic lives, etc. are called ''[[Aggadah]]'' ("the telling").

The Palestinian Hebrew Mishna, having spread to Mesopotamia, came to be regulatory to the Babylonian Jews, and, as the Mishna had become a "commentary" on the Hebrew Bible, so the Babylonian Jews developed a commentary on the Mishna itself. This was called the Gemara ("completion") and is in their own language, [[Aramaic]]. The formation of the Gemara took from 200 A.D. to 500 A.D. The whole Talmud then was a work of 700 years. The Mishna and the Gemara together is called the Talmud ("the Learning"). The Talmud then became regulatory until modern times for Jewish life elsewhere with but a few non-mainstream groups not accepting it.

The process of G-d sanctioned and ordained commentary (the Talmud) on the Scriptures is a legacy of the one movement that survived the first century Roman destruction of the temple and Jewish authority in Israel. The [[Saduccees]] disappeared as did the [[Essenes]] and the Herodians. But not so the [[Pharisees]]. The Pharisees believed that with the written Torah given to Moses on Sinai, there was also an Oral Torah given to him, by which the written was to be interpreted and applied. According to this tradition this Oral Torah was transmitted to others - Joshua, then the seventy, the prophets, and then to certain pairs (Zugot) finally finding its expression through the discussions and decisions embodied in the Talmudic literature. Through this the Jews created over 600 laws that they had to obey. Having a "portable" law and, so to speak, a "constitution" in the Talmud, Jews then were able to survive as Jews when they no longer had a land to live in and define them.

==Dietary laws==
Observant Jews follow a strict and complex set of rules governing what they may eat and drink. Permissible foods are called ''[[kosher]].'' Per Biblical commandments, only animals that chew their cud and have cloven hooves may be eaten and they must be properly slaughtered. Fish must have fins and scales. Dairy products cannot be mixed with meat from animals or birds. Vegetables must be checked for insects, as insects are considered "treyf," meaning not kosher. Additional rules apply during [[Pesach]].

==Life cycle==
Jewish boys are circumcised eight days after birth. They become adults for religious purposes when they turn 13, and event marked by a ceremony called a [[Bar Mitzvah]]. Similar ceremonies for girls when they turn 12, called [[Bat Mitzvah]], were introduced in in the 20th century.

[[Jewish law]] only recognizes marriages between Jews. [[Divorce]] is permitted, but there are exacting rules that must be followed for the divorce to be valid, including the husband presenting a bill of divorce (''Get'') to his wife.

Jewish law requires bodies to be buried promptly, preferably no later than the day after death. [[Cremation]] is not permitted. There are prescribed stages of [[mourning]] for the first year after the death of a close relative (parent, sibling, spouse of child). The anniversary of such a death is observed with gifts to [[charity]] and the recitation of a prayer, ''[[Kaddish]],'' praising God's name.

==See also==
* [[Bible]]
* [[Israel]]
* [[Israel Tourism]]
* [[Synagogue]]
* [[Orthodox Judaism]]
* [[Jewish Republican]]
* [[Passover Seder]]
* [[Hebrew]]
* [[Aramaic]]
* [[Aramaic Church]]
* [[Had Gadya]]
* [[Kaddish]]
* [[Midrash]]
* [[Targum]]
* [[New Testament understanding through the Jewish perspective]]

==External links==
* [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/jewishsbook.html Internet Jewish History Sourcebook]
* [http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ Jewish Virtual Library]
* [http://www.jewfaq.org/index.htm Judaism 101] Tracey R Rich.
* [http://www.jewishstudies.virtualave.net/ Academic Jewish Studies Internet Directory]
* [http://www.AskMoses.com AskMoses.com for questions about Judaism]
* [http://www.Chabad.org Chabad's Website]
*[http://www.aim.org/wls/category/jews/ What Liberals Say - Category: Jews], [[Accuracy In Media]]
* [http://www.aish.com Aish.com/]
* [http://www.beingjewish.com/ BeingJewish.com]
* [http://jewishanswers.com/ JewishAnswers.com]
* [http://torah.org/ Torah.org]
* [http://simpletoremember.com SimpleToRemember.com]
* [http://njop.org National Jewish Outreach Program (outreaches to assimilated Jews)]
* [http://ArtScroll.com ArtScroll.com]
* [http://Shamash.org Shamash.org]
* [http://shemayisrael.com/ ShemaYisrael.com]
* [http://jewishworldreview.com/ JewishWorldReview.com]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Judaism|*]]
[[Category:Anti-Semitism]]
[[Category:Religion]]
[[Category:Bible]]
[[Category:Old Testament]]

Talk:Old Earth

2009-06-25T02:27:11Z

BlueMoon:

{{Wikiproject Religion}}

There is already an article on this, check out this page: [[Old Earth Creationism]]. This article should be deleted or merged. --[[User:Tash|Tash]] 20:47, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

It's not the same thing because evolution proponents also support an old earth as well as OEC. --[[User:PeterMacKay|PeterMacKay]] 20:47, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

This is true. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 20:50, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

: The "4.5 billion years old" number just hangs there, suggesting a precision that does not exist and lacking an explanation of where it came from. I doubt 1 in 10 believers in an old earth could identify that number, and I don't even think that number has remain fixed for them.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:27, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

I think that the educational value of this page would be enhanced if it was made more thorough. For example, I think detail regarding the processes by which earth came into existence by the old earth model would be a great help to anyone doing research here. Also, I am confused: how is it a fallacy to assume that radioactive decay rates are constant? Nobody knows of any reason why they shouldn't be, as the rate of radioactive decay of any given element is inherent in its structure. Besides, the vast range in rock ages as measured by radioactive dating shows that however decay rates may have changed, some rocks are billions of years older than others. Therefore, even if decay rates weren't constant, comparison with other dating methods would still enable adequate dating. Additionally, the 4.5 billion figure contains a margin of error of up to 500,000,000 years in either direction and has remained fixed for a long time. With current dating methods the 500,000,00 year margin is a reasonable amount of precision, while not so much as to appear suspicious from a statistical standpoint. As for an explanation of how scientists arrived at that figure, I would be happy to add one as I agree that it would be instrumental in improving the article's quality.[[User:BlueMoon|BlueMoon]] 16:16, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

:Claiming that radioactive decay rates have been constant throughout all of history is the same thing as saying the earth is old. The two claims tautological; one does not prove the other.

:The claim that radioactive decay was constant for all time is presumptively false because there is no reason to expect a rate of decay (or rate of movement of continents, or rate of recession of planets, or rate of burning of suns, etc.) to remain constant over time.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:21, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

::Things like the rate of movement of continents (which is pretty close to constant), the rate of burning of suns (which is pretty close to constant for any given star), and the rate of recession of planets are all large-scale phenomena which are much more subject to entropy and to small variations of the environmental conditions involved than the rate of radioactive decay of an element, because radioactive decay rate is inherent in the structure of the element in question. If Uranium-238 didn't have a half-life of 4.47 billion years, than it wouldn't be Uranium-238. [[User:BlueMoon|BlueMoon]] 22:27, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Old Earth

2009-06-25T02:26:54Z

BlueMoon:

Black hole

2009-06-25T00:55:01Z

BlueMoon: Added an In Popular Culture section

A '''black hole''' is a theoretical prediction of the [[theory of relativity]]. It is impossible to prove that a black hole does not exist, and thus it fails the [[falsifiability]] requirement of science. Nevertheless, the theoretical black hole remains a popular topic for magazines, the science page of the [[New York Times]], and scientists on the cutting edge of astronomy and cosmology, as well as being a popular device in sci-fi due to its inherent "coolness factor".

[[Image:Iu8969hu.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Artist's conception of a binary system consisting of a black hole and a main sequence star. The black hole is drawing matter from the main sequence star via an [[accretion disk]] around it, and some of this matter forms a gas jet.]]
==Nature of a Black Hole==
A '''Black Hole''' is a theoretical mass with an infinitesimal volume, and therefore an infinite density. This gives them an escape velocity greater than the speed of light, meaning that light cannot escape from them due to their steep “gravity wells.” As this renders black holes invisible by traditional means of observation, scientists discover their locations through indirect means, such as the effect of their gravitational pull on nearby stars. Stars that are near black holes, e.g. by being part of a binary star system that contains one, show wobbles in their orbits similar to the tidal effects of the moon on Earth’s oceans. <ref>http://library.thinkquest.org/C007571/english/advance/english.htm</ref><ref>''Black Holes'' by Heather Cooper and Nigel Henbest (book)</ref> While matter and energy, even light, may not escape a black hole, Stephen Hawking has shown that they should emit Hawking radiation, which absent of an influx of mass-energy would lead to the evaporation of the black hole in a burst of gamma rays. Scientists are currently working to pick up one of these bursts, or the radiation itself, with any of several land- and space-based telescopes. However, the matter falling into black holes as well as the cosmic microwave background from the Big Bang obscures the radiation and inhibits its detection. The outer surface of a black hole is an event horizon, a non-material dimensional boundary, beyond which nothing can escape. The center of a black hole, where the mass exists, is called the singularity. The distance from the singularity to the event horizon is known as the Schwarzschild radius. All matter that falls into a black hole becomes part of the singularity, and as such is effectively destroyed.

==Origins of Black Holes==

Black holes form when supermassive stars more than ten times the mass of the Sun run out of fuel and die. The process of death occurs when supermassive stars that have fused the products of their own fusion into larger and larger elements, up to iron. The star then tries to fuse the iron core that forms as a result, but this does not produce enough energy to hold the outer layers of the star apart against the pull of gravity. When this happens, the iron core at the center of the star implodes in a supernova, and the outer layers of the star are blasted into space in one of the most energetic events in the universe—one star going out in a supernova can give off as much light as an entire galaxy. Not all supernovae result in black holes, but if the mass of the core is large enough, about 1.5-3.0 times the mass of the Sun (this value is termed the Tolman-Oppenheimer-Volkoff limit, and its value is not yet known to great precision), the leftover gravity of the shrinking core stalls the outward rush of the initial blast, and crushes the core into a point of infinite density: a black hole.

==Properties of Black Holes==

Black holes only have three properties by which one differs from another: mass, electric charge, and spin. Mass describes the amount of matter in the singularity. It increases when matter falls into the hole, and decreases as the hole emits Hawking radiation and shrinks. Spin refers to whether the hole is stationary or spinning around an axis. While the singularity of a non-spinning hole is an infinitely small point, the singularity of a spinning hole is in the shape of an infinitely thin ring. Matter entering a spinning hole is first swirled around by the hole’s gravity, causing it to heat up and emit x-rays, which can be used to detect the hole. In the supermassive black holes at the centers of galaxies, some of the matter does not fall into the hole. Instead it is blasted into space in twin jets of hot gas perpendicular to the accretion disc, in a phenomenon known as an Active Galactic Nucleus.

==Potential Future Exploration==

Scientists have speculated that if a spinning black hole is large enough, a person could pass through the center of the ring-shaped singularity and possibly enter a wormhole. However, it would have to be a very large hole, for if it were not, the hypothetical astronaut would never survive to reach the event horizon.

Matter coming close to the event horizon of a small black hole undergoes a process called spaghettification. Because the hole is so dense, its gravitational pull on the near end of an object is much greater than the hole’s pull on the object’s far end. This causes the object to be stretched out in a way resembling a piece of spaghetti, and generally torn in two.

==Scientific Understanding of Black Holes==

Schwarzschild discovered that black holes were possible under the theory of relativity. Albert Einstein tried to re-work the whole theory to eliminate the need for these singularities. However, Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking proved the first of many Singularity Theorems, which states that singularities must form under certain conditions. This demonstrated that, rather than mathematical oddities, singularities are a fairly generic feature of realistic solutions to relativity. According to relativity, any mass with radius less than its Schwarzschild Radius is a black hole.

Contrary to popular myth, a black hole is not a cosmic vacuum cleaner. In other words, a one-solar-mass black hole is no better than any other one-solar-mass object (such as, for example, the Sun) at "sucking in" distant objects. However, a one-solar-mass black hole has the same amount of matter as any other one-solar-mass object but compressed into a much smaller space, making it impossible to move fast enough to leave a black hole once there. If a spaceship could land on a black hole, it would never be able to take off again.

==In Popular Culture==

Black holes have been a device in science fiction ever since their discovery. Many sci-fi books, movies, and television shows use black holes as a method of travel (see the Potential Future Exploration section above) or as a threat to a space-going vessel. In at least one season of the show ''Star Trek: the Next Generation'' by Gene Roddenberry, artificially created miniature black holes are used as power sources for spaceships and natural ones as incubators for the young of an alien race. Neither of these uses has much of a basis in reality, of course.

The term "black hole" is also used as a metaphor for a place that it is hard to get out of, generally containing a high concentration of something unpleasant. Ex: "The inner city is a black hole of crime and drug use." Note that the Black Hole of Calcutta is ''not'' a reference to the celestial object; the name of the place predates the discovery of black holes in space and the Black Hole of Calcutta was a literal hole in the ground in Calcutta, India.
==External links==

*[http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l2/black_holes.html Black Holes]
*[http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/BHfaq.html Black Holes (Frequently Asked Questions)]

== References ==
<References/>

[[category: physics]]

Talk:Old Earth

2009-06-24T20:16:15Z

BlueMoon:

Talk:Old Earth

2009-06-24T20:15:56Z

BlueMoon: I proposed some additional information to be added and opened discussion on an unclear assertion.

Black hole

2009-06-24T19:45:57Z

BlueMoon: Fixing some format issues

[[Image:Iu8969hu.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Artist's conception of a binary system consisting of a black hole and a main sequence star. The black hole is drawing matter from the main sequence star via an [[accretion disk]] around it, and some of this matter forms a gas jet.]]
''Nature of a black hole''

A black hole is a mass with an infinitesimal volume, and therefore an infinite density. This gives them an escape velocity greater than the speed of light, meaning that light cannot escape from them due to their steep “gravity wells.” As this renders black holes invisible by traditional means of observation, scientists discover their locations through indirect means, such as the effect of their gravitational pull on nearby stars. Stars that are near black holes, e.g. by being part of a binary star system that contains one, show wobbles in their orbits similar to the tidal effects of the moon on Earth’s oceans.[1][2] While matter and energy, even light, may not escape a black hole, Stephen Hawking has shown that they should emit Hawking radiation, which absent of an influx of mass-energy would lead to the evaporation of the black hole in a burst of gamma rays. Scientists are currently working to pick up one of these bursts, or the radiation itself, with any of several land- and space-based telescopes. However, the matter falling into black holes as well as the cosmic microwave background from the Big Bang obscures the radiation and inhibits its detection. The outer surface of a black hole is an event horizon, a non-material dimensional boundary, beyond which nothing can escape. The center of a black hole, where the mass exists, is called the singularity. The distance from the singularity to the event horizon is known as the Schwarzschild radius. All matter that falls into a black hole becomes part of the singularity, and as such is effectively destroyed.

''Origins of black holes''

Black holes form when supermassive stars more than ten times the mass of the Sun run out of fuel and die. The process of death occurs when supermassive stars that have fused the products of their own fusion into larger and larger elements, up to iron. The star then tries to fuse the iron core that forms as a result, but this does not produce enough energy to hold the outer layers of the star apart against the pull of gravity. When this happens, the iron core at the center of the star implodes in a supernova, and the outer layers of the star are blasted into space in one of the most energetic events in the universe—one star going out in a supernova can give off as much light as an entire galaxy. Not all supernovae result in black holes, but if the mass of the core is large enough, about 1.2 times the mass of the Sun, the leftover gravity of the shrinking core stalls the outward rush of the initial blast, and crushes the core into a point of infinite density: a black hole.

''Properties''

Black holes only have three properties by which one differs from another: mass, electric charge, and spin. Mass describes the amount of matter in the singularity. It increases when matter falls into the hole, and decreases as the hole emits Hawking radiation and shrinks. Spin refers to whether the hole is stationary or spinning around an axis. While the singularity of a non-spinning hole is an infinitely small point, the singularity of a spinning hole is in the shape of an infinitely thin ring. Matter entering a spinning hole is first swirled around by the hole’s gravity, causing it to heat up and emit x-rays, which can be used to detect the hole. In the supermassive black holes at the centers of galaxies, some of the matter does not fall into the hole. Instead it is blasted into space in twin jets of hot gas perpendicular to the accretion disc, in a phenomenon known as an Active Galactic Nucleus.

''Potential future exploration''

Scientists have speculated that if a spinning black hole is large enough, a person could pass through the center of the ring-shaped singularity and possibly enter a wormhole. However, it would have to be a very large hole, for if it were not, the hypothetical astronaut would never survive to reach the event horizon.

Matter coming close to the event horizon of a small black hole undergoes a process called spaghettification. Because the hole is so dense, its gravitational pull on the near end of an object is much greater than the hole’s pull on the object’s far end. This causes the object to be stretched out in a way resembling a piece of spaghetti, and generally torn in two.

''Scientific understanding of black holes''

Schwarzschild discovered that black holes were possible under the theory of relativity. Albert Einstein tried to re-work the whole theory to eliminate the need for these singularities. However, Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking proved the first of many Singularity Theorems, which states that singularities must form under certain conditions. This demonstrated that, rather than mathematical oddities, singularities are a fairly generic feature of realistic solutions to relativity. According to relativity, any mass with radius less than its Schwarzschild Radius is a black hole.

Contrary to popular myth, a black hole is not a cosmic vacuum cleaner. In other words, a one-solar-mass black hole is no better than any other one-solar-mass object (such as, for example, the Sun) at "sucking in" distant objects. However, a one-solar-mass black hole has the same amount of matter as any other one-solar-mass object but compressed into a much smaller space, making it impossible to move fast enough to leave a black hole once there. If a spaceship could land on a black hole, it would never be able to take off again.

== External links ==

*[http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l2/black_holes.html Black Holes]
*[http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/BHfaq.html Black Holes (Frequently Asked Questions)]

== References ==
<References/>

http://library.thinkquest.org/C007571/english/advance/english.htm

''Black Holes'' by Heather Cooper and Nigel Henbest (book)

[[category: physics]]

Black hole

2009-06-24T19:39:22Z

BlueMoon: New info for all to enjoy!

[[Image:Iu8969hu.jpg|right|thumb|300px|Artist's conception of a binary system consisting of a black hole and a main sequence star. The black hole is drawing matter from the main sequence star via an [[accretion disk]] around it, and some of this matter forms a gas jet.]]
[edit] Nature of a black hole

A black hole is a mass with an infinitesimal volume, and therefore an infinite density. This gives them an escape velocity greater than the speed of light, meaning that light cannot escape from them due to their steep “gravity wells.” As this renders black holes invisible by traditional means of observation, scientists discover their locations through indirect means, such as the effect of their gravitational pull on nearby stars. Stars that are near black holes, e.g. by being part of a binary star system that contains one, show wobbles in their orbits similar to the tidal effects of the moon on Earth’s oceans.[1][2] While matter and energy, even light, may not escape a black hole, Stephen Hawking has shown that they should emit Hawking radiation, which absent of an influx of mass-energy would lead to the evaporation of the black hole in a burst of gamma rays. Scientists are currently working to pick up one of these bursts, or the radiation itself, with any of several land- and space-based telescopes. However, the matter falling into black holes as well as the cosmic microwave background from the Big Bang obscures the radiation and inhibits its detection. The outer surface of a black hole is an event horizon, a non-material dimensional boundary, beyond which nothing can escape. The center of a black hole, where the mass exists, is called the singularity. The distance from the singularity to the event horizon is known as the Schwarzschild radius.
[edit] origins of black holes

Black holes form when supermassive stars more than ten times the mass of the Sun run out of fuel and die. The process of death occurs when supermassive stars that have fused the products of their own fusion into larger and larger elements, up to iron. The star then tries to fuse the iron core that forms as a result, but this does not produce enough energy to hold the outer layers of the star apart against the pull of gravity. When this happens, the iron core at the center of the star implodes in a supernova, and the outer layers of the star are blasted into space in one of the most energetic events in the universe—one star going out in a supernova can give off as much light as an entire galaxy. Not all supernovae result in black holes, but if the mass of the core is large enough, about 1.2 times the mass of the Sun, the leftover gravity of the shrinking core stalls the outward rush of the initial blast, and crushes the core into a point of infinite density: a black hole.
[edit] Properties

Black holes only have three properties by which one differs from another: mass, electric charge, and spin. Mass describes the amount of matter in the singularity. It increases when matter falls into the hole, and decreases as the hole emits Hawking radiation and shrinks. Spin refers to whether the hole is stationary or spinning around an axis. While the singularity of a non-spinning hole is an infinitely small point, the singularity of a spinning hole is in the shape of an infinitely thin ring. Matter entering a spinning hole is first swirled around by the hole’s gravity, causing it to heat up and emit x-rays, which can be used to detect the hole. In the supermassive black holes at the centers of galaxies, some of the matter does not fall into the hole. Instead it is blasted into space in twin jets of hot gas perpendicular to the accretion disc, in a phenomenon known as an Active Galactic Nucleus.
[edit] Potential future exploration

Scientists have speculated that if a spinning black hole is large enough, a person could pass through the center of the ring-shaped singularity and possibly enter a wormhole. However, it would have to be a very large hole, for if it were not, the hypothetical astronaut would never survive to reach the event horizon.

Matter coming close to the event horizon of a small black hole undergoes a process called spaghettification. Because the hole is so dense, its gravitational pull on the near end of an object is much greater than the hole’s pull on the object’s far end. This causes the object to be stretched out in a way resembling a piece of spaghetti, and generally torn in two.
[edit] History of understanding of black holes

Schwarzschild discovered that black holes were possible in the theory of relativity. Albert Einstein tried to re-work the whole theory to eliminate the need for these singularities. However, Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking proved the first of many Singularity Theorems, which states that singularities must form under certain conditions. This demonstrated that, rather than mathematical oddities, singularities are a fairly generic feature of realistic solutions to relativity. According to relativity, any mass with radius less than its Schwarzschild Radius is a black hole.

Contrary to popular myth, a black hole is not a cosmic vacuum cleaner. In other words, a one-solar-mass black hole is no better than any other one-solar-mass object (such as, for example, the Sun) at "sucking in" distant objects. However, a one-solar-mass black hole has the same amount of matter as any other one-solar-mass object but compressed into a much smaller space.

== External links ==

*[http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l2/black_holes.html Black Holes]
*[http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/BHfaq.html Black Holes (Frequently Asked Questions)]

== References ==
<References/>

http://library.thinkquest.org/C007571/english/advance/english.htm

''Black Holes'' by Heather Cooper and Nigel Henbest (book)

[[category: physics]]

Black hole

2009-06-24T19:36:02Z

BlueMoon:

Black hole

2009-06-24T19:35:25Z

BlueMoon:

Black hole

2009-06-24T19:33:07Z

BlueMoon: /* References */

Talk:Black hole

2009-06-24T19:26:52Z

BlueMoon:

Talk:Black hole

2009-06-24T19:26:25Z

BlueMoon:

Help talk:Contents

2009-06-24T14:05:06Z

BlueMoon: /* Creating a path to essay of a subject new to Conservapedia */

How do I revert a vandalized page to a previous state? I recently tried to change back a vandalized page but could not figure out how to put in the original references at the end of the article. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 18:38, 21 February 2007 (EST)

Good Question! Click on the contribs for the user who made the changes. Beside the edit, there is a button that says "rollback". Click that and the edit will be reverted. ~ [[User:SharonS|SharonS]] 18:40, 21 February 2007 (EST)

: That method only works if you are a "sysop" (admin). I would recommend just copying the changed stuff fromt he previous revision. [[User:PhilipB|PhilipB]] 18:42, 21 February 2007 (EST)

I figured out how to do it by clicking the date of the previous edit before the vandalism under that page's history. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 18:46, 21 February 2007 (EST)

== Signatures ==

I've looked around but I can't figure out how to leave a signature when I post to a discussion page. Can someone help? Thanks.
:Just type <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> for your signature. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 19:01, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

==What is with this site?==
Every third click gets a "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" message. What gives? [[User:Ga ohoyt|Ga ohoyt]] 00:55, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

==Interwiki links==

Sure would be convenient if we could link to Wikipedia without having to type all that http stuff. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 13:01, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
: From what I've been able to tell, links to Wikipedia seem to be looked down upon a bit. Though some users here are also from [[CreationWiki]], and that might be another one that people might want to link to. I guess it takes some [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Guide_for_system_administrators_for_setting_up_interwiki_linking direct poking at the database] to set these up... perhaps {{user|Conservapedia Webmaster}} would be the one to do this? --[[User:Interiot|Interiot]] 13:19, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

== Images ==

The two entries, "How to upload a image" and "How to place an image on a page" are exactly the same....--~ [[User:TK|TerryK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 03:06, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I need help trying to upload images on my computer and says that .jpg is not a recommended file name. I saw it as one of the several options to do on the upload page. I got the file name and filled in the summary. What's wrong? --[[User:Additioner|Additioner]] 18:26, 7 April 2007

==Formatting==
Is there a standard format for pages? Are there examples of that? Shouldn't that be listed here? Do you have notability standards at all? If not, can I make a page about my mom? [[User:IMFromKathlene|IMFromKathlene]] 05:34, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

== Blocked Users/IP Addresses.... ==

Is this something all users will be able to see?

Someone posted over on Andy's page, with privacy concerns about the IP thing. --~ [[User:TK|TerryK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 08:41, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

If the Webmaster will institute a page for Metals or Metallurgy, I will begin to add a number of terms and definitions as well as other information to that page that may be helpful to others that are looking for information on that topic. PhilH.
:You can create the page yourself, not hard. Do a search for it, then click the "start new page" link. This is a wiki, you can contribute.[[User:Hengineer|Hengineer]] 10:04, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

== Creating a path to essay of a subject new to Conservapedia ==

I have created a page on a topic of abortion, but it is almost non-findable. I need to know how to make it findable. Right now, I think the only way to find it is by searching for "Separate Life". Not many people are going to know that they should do this.

The way I thought it should be is this:

1) From main page, search for abortion. Go.

2) Click on Separate Life in the Contents

So I need to know how to list it in the Contents.
I would also then need to know how to make a link so that if one clicks on Separate Life, his computer would take him to the Separate Life page. [[User:Earl100|Earl100]]

*You could create a new page, and move the old one to it, no?--[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 03:36, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

No. I don't even understand that.

*I will refer this to the CPWebmaster, whom I know can help you! --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 14:29, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
::I would suggest two ways to do this. One would be to put one or more categories at the bottom of the page, like this : <nowiki>[[category:medicine]]</nowiki> - and preview to make sure the cats exist; or look on the list of categories that "category" will then link to to find one or more appropriate cats. Each category gets its own tag. It is suggested that all articles should be categorized, by the way. The other way is to look for articles on similar topics, and see if they should mention the topic of your new article. If so, include such a sentence or mention (or a "See Also") and link them to your file. Just make sure it makes sense in the article you link from. Hope this helps! [[User:Human|Human]] 15:24, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

: Earl, if you want to make a link to a page enclose the title of the page in two brackets, like this, <nowiki>[[Separate Life]]</nowiki>. I just added your essay to the bottom of the [[abortion]] page as "Essay on abortion." Let me know if you need any more help. [[User:CPWebmaster|CPWebmaster]] 15:46, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

How do I edit an existing page? I am new to the world of online encyclopedia editing and I can't find an "edit" button or anything of the sort.

== How do I create a Category page? ==

How do I create a Category page? I am trying to create the category of [[Accounting terms]] (for the [[asset]], [[liability]], and [[Balance Sheet]] pages) but I don't know how to do it - can anyone help, please? thanks --[[User:Taj|Taj]] 23:40, 13 June 2007 (EDT)
:Where your articles have [[:category|Accounting terms]] at the bottom of the page (under "category"), click on that red link, and you will find yourself on the [[:category|Accounting terms]] page, which will list the three articles. in a sense, you've already done it! But in order to turn those red links into blue links, put something in the edit box on that page, so that the page contains more than just the list. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 06:57, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

:: Thank you very much for the explanation! It was so simple to do that I feel foolish now, lol :p The difficulty came because I wasn't typing anything in the edit box, thinking the list of pages would be automatically generated with the new page (it was, but I needed to type something too). Again, thank you. --[[User:Taj|Taj]] 14:24, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

== Uploading images ==
I understand about the ability to upload images, but I am lost at what kind of images should be uploaded to Wikipedia and what image licenses should be avoided or not. Thanks. [[User:Zscout370|Zscout370]] 16:44, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

*You need to ask Wikipedia about that! :p --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 17:16, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

**Ok, sorry about that. I meant to say Conservapedia (it's getting hard typing the new name out, to be honest). I ask the question of uploading images, since I know about two image resources we can use for photos, mostly of state leaders. I just wasn't sure what your policies were. [[User:Zscout370|Zscout370]] 14:58, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

*Most State Leaders are considered Public Domain, especially when taken from government sites. If you can be more specific, I can attempt to answer you, or (more likely) find you the answer ;-). --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 15:01, 12 August 2007 (EDT)
**The websites I plan on uploading the images from are from Kremlin.ru and, hopefully, president.gov.by. They are the official websites of the Russian and Belarusian presidency, respectively. I will provide the text, in English, in a few. [[User:Zscout370|Zscout370]] 15:12, 12 August 2007 (EDT)
**Ok, from the President of Belarus: ''Use of materials of the portal - The materials of portal can be used in the media, be extended in the network the Internet without any limitations on volume and periods of publication. Reference to the ultimate source is only condition. No preliminary agreement to the use of materials of portal from the side of the press- service of the President of republic Belarus' it is required. '' [http://www.president.gov.by/press28825.html]. For the President of Russia, please read [http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/articles/about_siteEng06.shtml]. [[User:Zscout370|Zscout370]] 15:18, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

<blockquote>
''"All materials on the Presidential website may be reproduced in any media outlets, on Internet servers or on any other information supports without restriction on the amount of material and time of publication. This authorisation covers equally newspapers, magazines, radio stations, TV channels '''and Internet sites.''' The only condition is that any reproduction or broadcasting of the website’s materials contain a reference to the original source. No prior approval from the Presidential Press and Information Office is required to reprint information from the website."''
</blockquote>

So you merely state in the comment box when you upload, that the picture is "free use". :-) --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 16:22, 12 August 2007 (EDT)
:Alright, thanks a bunch. [[User:Zscout370|Zscout370]] 17:41, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

== Why? Why? ==

Your user name or IP address has been blocked.

The block was made by SharonS. The reason given is Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "Celtish". The reason given for Celtish's block is: "'".

You can contact SharonS or another administrator to discuss the block. You cannot use the 'email this user' feature unless a valid email address is specified in your account preferences. Your current IP address is 90.240.152.67, and the block ID is #18750. Please include either or both of these in any queries.

== Help please? I'm new, and I'm lost, and I can't figure out where to go==
For the sake of ease, can I have an email with someone? I don't really understand this, and I really only wanted to write an essay about liberals reading conservapedia articles. I am a hardcore liberal, and I have always held Conservapedia in high regards, but I have a few things that I wanted to mention to people of Conservapedia as a whole. I don't really know how to do anything of any sorts, so can someone in authority please give me an email? Obi.binks@gmail.com Thanks! -- [[User:ObiBinks|ObiBinks]] 22:56, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

*Exculpatory1 on AIM, I am. --[[User:TK|şŷŝoρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|/Ṣρёаќǃ]] 23:15, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

:Or click the "E-mail this user" link in the "edit console" box on the left of a user's page. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 21:25, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

==Help:How to Code==
can someone add a link to [[Help:How to Code]] -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|12px]] [[User:Deborah]] [[Special:Contributions/Deborah|(contributions)]] [[User_talk:Deborah|(talk)]] 15:31, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

== Upload images? ==

How do I get into the Upload images group? [[User:NotALiberal|NotALiberal]] 12:21, 31 January 2009 (EST)
: See [[Conservapedia:User rights#Requesting further rights]]. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 17:10, 31 January 2009 (EST)

==Funny link==
The page for "how can I contact you" is this: [[Conservapedia:Contact Us]]. However, there is no info here. It looks like a talk page. Should be cleaned up or something. [[User:AddisonDM|AddisonDM]] 11:05, 18 February 2009 (EST)