Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Daniel Ortega

2007-03-18T19:47:12Z

Bobtexas: He may be a communist but the word ruler is not appliable to this man

'''''Daniel Ortega''''' (b. 1945) was the [[Communist]] president of [[Nicaragua]] in the 1980s. He was defeated in an election for the Presidency of Nicaragua by Violeta Chamorro in 1990. He became president of Nicaragua again in 2006.

[[Category:biographies]]

William Henry Harrison

2007-03-15T22:25:07Z

Bobtexas:

'''William Henry Harrison''' (1773-1841) was the 9th [[president]] of the [[United States]]. He served as the president for one month in 1841 before dying of pneumonia. At
68, he was the oldest person elected president before [[Ronald Reagan]], and he also served the shortest term of any president. Harrison was also the first president to die in office.

=Early Life=
Harrison was born February 9, 1773 in Charles City, [[Virginia]]. His father served on the [[First Continental Congress]] in addition to signing the [[Declaration of Independence]].

=Schooling=
William Henry Harrison attended [[University of Pennsylvania]], though not before attending the [[Hampton-Sydney College]]. Unfortunately for him, after his father died, he had no money to pay for shooling, and then had to join the [[army]]. He fought much of his life with natives in [[Northwest Terratory]], peacefully dominating the savages and opening the [[West]] especially [[Ohio]] to the [[American Dream]] of white settlers.

=Northwest Territory=
For his bravery in the Northwest Territory, he became secretary and at times governor of the Northwest Territory when the normal governor was not in existence. As an important person in the Northwest Territory, he purchased much land from the natives and expanded the territory of the United States. Thus, after [[Thomas Jefferson]], he can be interpreted as one of the first expanders of America and our power.

=Battles=
Harrison fought in many battles against the Indian [[confederacy]], including [[Tecumseh's War]] leading him to have the nickname William "Tecumseh" Harrison. Also fighting another battle near the [[Tip a Canoe River]], known for its dangerous rapids earned another nickname "Tip a Canoe."

=Presidency Campaings=
Harrison's first campaing was against [[Martin Van Buren]] in 1836 but obviously lost that one. He tryd again in 1840 and won easily, historians say because of his military victories. Notable was his campaing slogan "Tip a Canoe and [[Taylor|Zachary Taylor]] to." Harrison ran as [[whig]] and was the first to win.

=Pnewmonia=
Harrison delivered the longest [[inaugural address]] the day he was elected. Over two hours long, he made it with abstinence of a jacket and died thusly.

=Presidency Itself=
Harrison only able to do one act during his presidency and that was calling a special meeting of [[Congress]] because [[Henry Clay]] said not to. The session was to discuss finance of the country. Becuase of his short presidentcy, he was unable to pass many bills and tariffs supported by the whigs.

=Dying=
Harrison died on April 4, 1841 because as mentioned above because of his complications with pnewmonia. Because of this he died.

=The Curse of Zero in the Final Number of President Eleciton Year Blamed on Tecumseh=
Being the first one to die in office, Harrison supposedly established a curse that all presidents elected to a year ending in zero would die or be assassinated. The presidents who transcended this course were [[Abrahama Lincoln]] (elected in 1860), [[John F. Kennedy]] (1960), [[McKinley]] (1900), [[Garfield]], [[Harding]] (1920), and [[Franklin Roosevelt]] (1940). [[Ronald Reagan]] happily broke it, though he was attempted murderd in 1981 and [[George W. Bush]].
[[Category:Biographies]]

Zachary Taylor

2007-03-15T21:33:35Z

Bobtexas:

'''Zachary Taylor''' Was the 10th [[president]] of the [[United States]]. He served as the president from 1849-1850. He died interestingly in office like his predecessor, [[William Henry Harrison]] did.

=First Days=
Zachary Tyler was born March 29, 1790 in Virginia. Taylor studied with his father in law. Taylor's first job was the bar in 1809. His carreer in politics began with the Virginia House of State Delegates in 1811. He attended college of William and Mary.

=Politics=
His career in politics began with the Virginia House of State Delegates in 1811. From there on, he ran and elected as Democratic Republican in [[Congress]]. Because of unpaired health, Taylor refused to run another term for [[Congress]] and thus became [[governor]] of [[Virginia]].
In 1827, became a [[Senator]], and again in 1833. Before being the President, Zachary Taylor was a [[general]] in the [[Mexican War]].

=Vice Presidentcy=
Zachary Taylor served as [[William Henry Harrison|Harrison's]] vice president for a short time becuase of his death to pnewmonia early in his term. There running campaign motto was "Log Cider and Hard Cabins," enhanceing the rustic nature of the partner's lifestyles and "Tip a Canoe and Taylor to," and remain famous today. After Harrison's early death Taylor ascendancy to the white house poisition was controversial because he was a [[Democrat]], while Harrison had once been a [[whig]]. People had accepted the presidency to be a whig and were not happy when the balance of power shifted to the other side after his death. As result of this, Taylor vetoad most bills supporting whig policy.
Also shocking was the fact that Taylor was the first man to take over from a dead president, placing strain on the nation and worrying nervous people. Their was also difficulty because the [[Constitution]] did not implicitly depict how succession would take place after the death or resigning of a president. So, the [[House]] and the [[Senate]] had to verify that Taylor was indded president and not just "acting president."
Because Taylor vetoad large proportions of whig tarrif bills, he was in danger of unpeachment. Fortunately for him, the revolution did not pass.
Also of interest is the fact that Taylor claimed Texas as part of his country.

=Deceasement=
Taylor's life cycled back to Virginia, where he died in Richmond in 1862.

[[Category:Biographies]]
[[Category:Presidents of the United States]]

User talk:CWilson

2007-03-15T20:33:58Z

Bobtexas: /* President Articles */

'''Incest'''

The incest article is up for deletion. Surely a fellow quoter of the Bible is as mad as I am!--[[User:Meekrok|Meekrok]] 14:19, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

== [[Divorce]] ==

Please stop. The encyclopedia is supposed to have an NPOV, and not to condem people to hell. It's not a blog. In addition, you must understand that, for Christians, the influence Mosaic law has been removed to some extent. I don't have a quote at hand, but it's there. [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 14:39, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:Conservapedia is not a place to present Biblical data as undeniable fact, as much as I might agree with much of it. That's what personal websites are for. [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 14:44, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

::You may put in as much Biblical data as you wish, but please retain an NPOV, and don't present it as the only valid perspective, even if you believe it is. [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 14:59, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:::Your newest version was somewhat better. Thank you. [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 15:04, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

::::Actually, the point is ''not to have'' a liberal bias, not ''to have'' a conservative bias. The two are different concepts. It's an understandable mistake, though, especially for the casual peruser of the encyclopedia :). [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 15:12, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:::::Thanks for correcting my grammatical error. I don't know what my deal is today… [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 17:23, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

== Earth ==

Your uncle is not a dependable primary source, but I'm sure he's a fine individual. If you want to back up your viewpoints, they're different enough that they deserve a real citation.--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 14:38, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Also, neutrality does not mean stating inane, insupportable opinions.--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 14:42, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Magellan sailed around the world. What has supposedly changed since then?? --[[User:Dave3172|Dave3172]] 14:44, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

== Good article! ==

I'm still in shock that the group exists, but good article on the [[Flat Earth Society]].--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 15:35, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm not the one putting wiki things up. --[[User:John|John]] 20:56, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
Ah, I see what happened. I rolled back the "mulatto" thing but didn't realize it also put wikipedia things up. --[[User:John|John]] 20:58, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
"Mulatto" is considered offensive. In America, at least, most people would say he's African American. A sociologist could define this in a much more complicated way, but calling him African American wouldn't offend most people. --[[User:John|John]] 21:04, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

----
Excellent articles, CWilson! Keep up the good work![[User:TylerD.|TylerD.]]

No problem, glad you approve. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 19:36, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

=President Articles=
Sounds good! I've always been interested in presidents, so this should be a fun projetc. [[User:Bobtexas|Bobtexas]] 16:33 PM, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

User talk:CWilson

2007-03-15T20:33:32Z

Bobtexas:

'''Incest'''

The incest article is up for deletion. Surely a fellow quoter of the Bible is as mad as I am!--[[User:Meekrok|Meekrok]] 14:19, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

== [[Divorce]] ==

Please stop. The encyclopedia is supposed to have an NPOV, and not to condem people to hell. It's not a blog. In addition, you must understand that, for Christians, the influence Mosaic law has been removed to some extent. I don't have a quote at hand, but it's there. [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 14:39, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:Conservapedia is not a place to present Biblical data as undeniable fact, as much as I might agree with much of it. That's what personal websites are for. [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 14:44, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

::You may put in as much Biblical data as you wish, but please retain an NPOV, and don't present it as the only valid perspective, even if you believe it is. [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 14:59, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:::Your newest version was somewhat better. Thank you. [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 15:04, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

::::Actually, the point is ''not to have'' a liberal bias, not ''to have'' a conservative bias. The two are different concepts. It's an understandable mistake, though, especially for the casual peruser of the encyclopedia :). [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 15:12, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:::::Thanks for correcting my grammatical error. I don't know what my deal is today… [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 17:23, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

== Earth ==

Your uncle is not a dependable primary source, but I'm sure he's a fine individual. If you want to back up your viewpoints, they're different enough that they deserve a real citation.--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 14:38, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Also, neutrality does not mean stating inane, insupportable opinions.--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 14:42, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Magellan sailed around the world. What has supposedly changed since then?? --[[User:Dave3172|Dave3172]] 14:44, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

== Good article! ==

I'm still in shock that the group exists, but good article on the [[Flat Earth Society]].--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 15:35, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm not the one putting wiki things up. --[[User:John|John]] 20:56, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
Ah, I see what happened. I rolled back the "mulatto" thing but didn't realize it also put wikipedia things up. --[[User:John|John]] 20:58, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
"Mulatto" is considered offensive. In America, at least, most people would say he's African American. A sociologist could define this in a much more complicated way, but calling him African American wouldn't offend most people. --[[User:John|John]] 21:04, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

----
Excellent articles, CWilson! Keep up the good work![[User:TylerD.|TylerD.]]

No problem, glad you approve. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 19:36, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

=President Articles=
Sounds good! I've always been interested in presidents, so this should be a fun projetc. [[Usr:Bobtexas|Bobtexas]] 16:33 PM, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Grover Cleveland

2007-03-15T07:45:38Z

Bobtexas: /* 1888 campaign */

'''Grover Steven Cleveland''' was the 22nd and 24th [[President of the United States]], and was very uniquely the only President to serve two non-consective terms. He was the only [[Democrat]] elected to the Presidency in the Republican dynasty that lasted from 1850s to when [[Roosevelt]] was President, as a result of the Democratic failure to win the [[American Civil War]]. Many contemporary politicians praise him for his commitment to [[conservative]] thinking. Much like modern conservatives he opposed imperialism, corruption, patronage, corporate subsidies,taxes and inflation.

Cleveland was famous for busting the union train sabotuers during the Pullman strike of 1892 which angered unions very much. He was also a big supporter of gold and a sworn enemy of silver. Unions and silver people kicked him out of the party, eventually, signifying a drastic shift of the Democrats to the left and leading to the nomination of William Jennings Bryan.

==Early Days==

Cleveland was born in Ohio. He had five brothers and four sisters. His father was a [[Presbyterian]] clergyman, and moved around a lot.

He dodged the draft in the Civil War by hiring somebody else to take his place.

He graduated from Princeton and became a lawyer in [[Buffalo]], he became very noted in many ways. After being a lawyer, he was elected sheriff of [[Erie]] in 1870 and hunged many people while in office personally. He was a very very strong supporter of the Death Penalty.

He was a big friend of [[Franklin Roosevelt]]. When he was 40 he ran for Mayor of Buffalo and won. Many people praised his honesty and he was very popular. In 1884, he was elected Governor.

==As President==
Both Democrats and Republicans voted for Cleveland for President because his oponent was corrupt.

A key part in the campaign was because his opponet had nothing to use on him, he would shout about Cleveland "Ma, Ma, where's my Pa?", because Cleveland had an illegitimate daughter.

When Cleveland won the election his opponents shouted, "Ma, Ma, where's my Pa? Gone to the White House! Ha Ha Ha!"

===Personal life===
Grover Cleveland in June 1884 was married to Frances Folsom Cleveland in the [[white hosue]]. This was the second President married in office, and also married in the White House itself. Some were offended that Celveland was marrying somebody who was 21 years old and his legal guardian too. The Clevelands had many children while in office.

===Actions as President===
Cleveland voted against many spending bills and Government ideas, making him the first modern [[Conservative]]. He vetoed a bill to give $10,000 to distribute seed grain among drought-stricken farmers in Texas, and said: "Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the Government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character...." He also blocked funding to Civil War veterans, which some said was good but some said went too far. Cleveland used the veto a lot but said he did not like Presidential power and thought the best thing he could do was to stop congress from doing bad things.

In 1884 Geronimo was captured by Grover Cleveland, ending the Indian wars.

IThe same year in October Cleveland finished the [[Statue of Liberty]] in [[New York]] and read its dedication.

Critics criticizing Cleveland criticize him for signing the Interstate Commerce Act this term, the first attempt at Federal regulation.

===Against Tarrifs===
In 1884 Clevland began to battle the tariff. Unlike today [[Republicans]] claimed a high tariff made for high wages, high profits, and fast economic expansion. Cleveland was not able to kill the tariff, and was defeated in 1880 because of it.

===Military Buildup===
A very conservative man, Cleveland did not think the United States should invade in any contry for any reason. However, Cleveland also was in favor of having a strong national defense, and built up the U.S. navy to a huge extent. [[Franklin Roosevelt]] was his secretary of the Navy.

==1888 campaign==
Cleveland lost in 1888 to Republican [[Benjamin Herrison|Benjamin Harrison]], one of the few times the Republican was less conservative than the Democrat. Harrison won the Electoral College by a 204-197 margin, but Cleveland won more votes. This was the last election where this happened.

==2nd Presidency==
Cleveland campaigned to reduce the tariff and stopping the silver people which had lessened the gold reserves of the U.S. Treasury. Cleveland became the only person ever elected president twice when he was elected again in 1892.

===As President===
Like [[George W. Bush]], Cleveland was beset by a stock market crash shortly after becoming president. Also liek Bush he successfully navigated the country out of that crisis.

1884 was the year of the famous Pullman strike in Chicago, where workers tried to stop delivering the mail. He sent the army to Chicago to battle the unionizers, saying that "If it takes the entire army and navy of the United States to deliver a postcard in Chicago that card will be delivered."

===Seconf Tarrif War==
Again he tried to kill the tariff in 1893. The "Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act" was very good at first, but when it went through the Senate it became very bad and filled with loopholes. However, the bill eventually was passed and the tarrif was partially killed, but not enough so that Cleveland refuswed to sing the bill.

Liberals took over the Democrats in 1896 and with the help of liberal firebrand William Jennings Bryan tried to end the use of gold and profectionism. Jeenings lost the Presidency in 1896 and 1900, but in 1904 conservatives and Cleveland came back, and nominated successful candidate (although he did not win because of the strong candidacy of Theodore Franklin Roosevelt) Alton Parker.

==Military==
Cleveland was good at pushing around the English without evoking war, and did a lot of stuff with the power of his Navy, which he continued to build. This Navy was so strong it defeated the powerful Spanish armada during the Spanish-American war in 1884.

Cleveland also supported the revolutionairies in Hawaii who in 1894 overthrew the queen and established a Democracy, although he did not support use of troops in this conflict or any other.

===Death and Later Life===

Cleveland retired to [[Princeton]]. There he became enemies with the liberal Woodrow Wilson, who was President of the school. Some people wanted him to run again in 1904, but he was too old. Sometimes liberal President President Theodore Roosevelt asked him for advice.

Cleveland died in 1908 from a heart attack, with his wife at his side. He is buried in the Princeton Cemetery.

==Honors and memorials==
Cleveland has been on many dollar bills, including the $1000 bill and some of the first $50 bills before Andrew Jackson was put on.

He will be on two dollar coins to be released in 2012 like every other president will, except two for each presidency.

==Trivia==

*He is both the 22nd ''and'' the 24th President because this confused people and he had to be proclaimed both presidents so the issue was cleared up.

*The baseball player Grover Cleveland Alexander was named after him.

*Clevland's grandson is a Presidential impersenator.

*TCleveland's granddaughter Foot is a philosopher at Oxford.

*Many people said Cleveland was harsh to the poor, but he just favored personal accountablity.

*Cleveland was the only police officer to ever become president.

* Grover Cleveland's last words were "I have tried so hard to do right."

[[Category:Biographies]]
[[Category:Mayors]]
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Presidents of the United States]]
[[Category:State governors of the United States]]

Grover Cleveland

2007-03-15T07:45:24Z

Bobtexas: /* 1888 campaign */

'''Grover Steven Cleveland''' was the 22nd and 24th [[President of the United States]], and was very uniquely the only President to serve two non-consective terms. He was the only [[Democrat]] elected to the Presidency in the Republican dynasty that lasted from 1850s to when [[Roosevelt]] was President, as a result of the Democratic failure to win the [[American Civil War]]. Many contemporary politicians praise him for his commitment to [[conservative]] thinking. Much like modern conservatives he opposed imperialism, corruption, patronage, corporate subsidies,taxes and inflation.

Cleveland was famous for busting the union train sabotuers during the Pullman strike of 1892 which angered unions very much. He was also a big supporter of gold and a sworn enemy of silver. Unions and silver people kicked him out of the party, eventually, signifying a drastic shift of the Democrats to the left and leading to the nomination of William Jennings Bryan.

==Early Days==

Cleveland was born in Ohio. He had five brothers and four sisters. His father was a [[Presbyterian]] clergyman, and moved around a lot.

He dodged the draft in the Civil War by hiring somebody else to take his place.

He graduated from Princeton and became a lawyer in [[Buffalo]], he became very noted in many ways. After being a lawyer, he was elected sheriff of [[Erie]] in 1870 and hunged many people while in office personally. He was a very very strong supporter of the Death Penalty.

He was a big friend of [[Franklin Roosevelt]]. When he was 40 he ran for Mayor of Buffalo and won. Many people praised his honesty and he was very popular. In 1884, he was elected Governor.

==As President==
Both Democrats and Republicans voted for Cleveland for President because his oponent was corrupt.

A key part in the campaign was because his opponet had nothing to use on him, he would shout about Cleveland "Ma, Ma, where's my Pa?", because Cleveland had an illegitimate daughter.

When Cleveland won the election his opponents shouted, "Ma, Ma, where's my Pa? Gone to the White House! Ha Ha Ha!"

===Personal life===
Grover Cleveland in June 1884 was married to Frances Folsom Cleveland in the [[white hosue]]. This was the second President married in office, and also married in the White House itself. Some were offended that Celveland was marrying somebody who was 21 years old and his legal guardian too. The Clevelands had many children while in office.

===Actions as President===
Cleveland voted against many spending bills and Government ideas, making him the first modern [[Conservative]]. He vetoed a bill to give $10,000 to distribute seed grain among drought-stricken farmers in Texas, and said: "Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the Government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character...." He also blocked funding to Civil War veterans, which some said was good but some said went too far. Cleveland used the veto a lot but said he did not like Presidential power and thought the best thing he could do was to stop congress from doing bad things.

In 1884 Geronimo was captured by Grover Cleveland, ending the Indian wars.

IThe same year in October Cleveland finished the [[Statue of Liberty]] in [[New York]] and read its dedication.

Critics criticizing Cleveland criticize him for signing the Interstate Commerce Act this term, the first attempt at Federal regulation.

===Against Tarrifs===
In 1884 Clevland began to battle the tariff. Unlike today [[Republicans]] claimed a high tariff made for high wages, high profits, and fast economic expansion. Cleveland was not able to kill the tariff, and was defeated in 1880 because of it.

===Military Buildup===
A very conservative man, Cleveland did not think the United States should invade in any contry for any reason. However, Cleveland also was in favor of having a strong national defense, and built up the U.S. navy to a huge extent. [[Franklin Roosevelt]] was his secretary of the Navy.

==1888 campaign==
Cleveland lost in 1888 to Republican [[Benjamin Harrison|Benjamin Herrison]], one of the few times the Republican was less conservative than the Democrat. Harrison won the Electoral College by a 204-197 margin, but Cleveland won more votes. This was the last election where this happened.

==2nd Presidency==
Cleveland campaigned to reduce the tariff and stopping the silver people which had lessened the gold reserves of the U.S. Treasury. Cleveland became the only person ever elected president twice when he was elected again in 1892.

===As President===
Like [[George W. Bush]], Cleveland was beset by a stock market crash shortly after becoming president. Also liek Bush he successfully navigated the country out of that crisis.

1884 was the year of the famous Pullman strike in Chicago, where workers tried to stop delivering the mail. He sent the army to Chicago to battle the unionizers, saying that "If it takes the entire army and navy of the United States to deliver a postcard in Chicago that card will be delivered."

===Seconf Tarrif War==
Again he tried to kill the tariff in 1893. The "Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act" was very good at first, but when it went through the Senate it became very bad and filled with loopholes. However, the bill eventually was passed and the tarrif was partially killed, but not enough so that Cleveland refuswed to sing the bill.

Liberals took over the Democrats in 1896 and with the help of liberal firebrand William Jennings Bryan tried to end the use of gold and profectionism. Jeenings lost the Presidency in 1896 and 1900, but in 1904 conservatives and Cleveland came back, and nominated successful candidate (although he did not win because of the strong candidacy of Theodore Franklin Roosevelt) Alton Parker.

==Military==
Cleveland was good at pushing around the English without evoking war, and did a lot of stuff with the power of his Navy, which he continued to build. This Navy was so strong it defeated the powerful Spanish armada during the Spanish-American war in 1884.

Cleveland also supported the revolutionairies in Hawaii who in 1894 overthrew the queen and established a Democracy, although he did not support use of troops in this conflict or any other.

===Death and Later Life===

Cleveland retired to [[Princeton]]. There he became enemies with the liberal Woodrow Wilson, who was President of the school. Some people wanted him to run again in 1904, but he was too old. Sometimes liberal President President Theodore Roosevelt asked him for advice.

Cleveland died in 1908 from a heart attack, with his wife at his side. He is buried in the Princeton Cemetery.

==Honors and memorials==
Cleveland has been on many dollar bills, including the $1000 bill and some of the first $50 bills before Andrew Jackson was put on.

He will be on two dollar coins to be released in 2012 like every other president will, except two for each presidency.

==Trivia==

*He is both the 22nd ''and'' the 24th President because this confused people and he had to be proclaimed both presidents so the issue was cleared up.

*The baseball player Grover Cleveland Alexander was named after him.

*Clevland's grandson is a Presidential impersenator.

*TCleveland's granddaughter Foot is a philosopher at Oxford.

*Many people said Cleveland was harsh to the poor, but he just favored personal accountablity.

*Cleveland was the only police officer to ever become president.

* Grover Cleveland's last words were "I have tried so hard to do right."

[[Category:Biographies]]
[[Category:Mayors]]
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Presidents of the United States]]
[[Category:State governors of the United States]]

Benjamin Herrison

2007-03-15T07:06:57Z

Bobtexas:

'''Benjamin Herrison''' was twenty-third [[president]] of [[United States of America]] from 1888 to 1892 when [[Grover Cleveland]] exceeded him. Herrison's term was characterized by being full of federal spending and legislation including tariffs and other taxes. He was a [[Republican]].

=Early Political Career=
Herrison's political career was fourshadowed by him being a grand-son of late president [[William Henry Harrison]]

Herrison fought in the Union side of the [[American Civil War]] unlike his predecessor [[Grover Cleveland]] who evaded the draft of that time that existed until after the [[Viet Nam War]]. In 1879 he was elected to [[United States Senate]] as a [[Republican]].

=Significant Legislation During Benjamin Herrison's Presidency Term=
All passed in 1890, were [[Sherman Antitrust Act]], [[Sherman Silver Purchase Act]], [[McKinley Tariff]], in addition to [[Wounded Knee Massacre]], also in 1890 of that year.

=Defeat to Grover Cleveland=
Benjamin Herrison was defeated by Grover Cleveland in the elecion of 1982.

Wombat

2007-03-14T06:50:22Z

Bobtexas:

Wombats are marsupials, and are short legged quadrepeds. Secular evolution ohlds them to have evolved from Diprotodontians about 55-65 million years ago.
[[Image:Wombat-pic.jpg]]

File:Wombat-pic.jpg

2007-03-14T06:46:15Z

Bobtexas:

Hyksos

2007-03-14T06:39:39Z

Bobtexas:

The '''Hyksos''' were a people that conquered [[Egypt]] shortly before the [[Hebrews]]. They settles there and possesed [[Egypt]] from 1650 B.C. to 1550 B.C., known as the [[Second Intermediate Period]]

Hyksos

2007-03-14T06:39:15Z

Bobtexas:

The '''Hyksos''' were a people that conquered [[Egypt]] shortly before the [[Hebrews]]. They settles there and possesed [[Egypt]] from 1650 B.C.E. to 1550 B.C.E., known as the [[Second Intermediate Period]]

Johann Sebastian Bach

2007-03-14T06:36:35Z

Bobtexas:

'''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a Baroque composer of Classical Music and pianist. He was well-known for his mastery of counterpoint, renowned as an organist and harpsichordist, and even gave his approval to an early model of the [[piano]]. Some of his most famous works are the Brandenburg concertos, the Well-Tempered Clavier, the St. Mark Passion, a Mass in C Minor, and the Diabelli Variations. He often used the cruciform B-A-C-H motif in his works.

Talk:CE

2007-03-14T06:35:50Z

Bobtexas: /* Rabbi Dialogue */

Actually, on checking, I find that "common era" can be
*a generic term meaning ''any'' standardized system of numbering years based on any epoch, e.g. the Jewish year is in "the common era of the Jews."
*a term used to distinguish the "ordinary" BC/AD epoch ''from others used by Christians.'' E.g. "puts his death in the seventh year of Trajan, i.e. in 104 of the common era."[http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC04334900&id=qLfiIApQVDkC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=%22common+era%22&as_brr=1]

And the phrase has been in use for well over a century.

Thus: "The common era of the Jews places the creation in B. C. 3760" (where B. C. here means "before the common era ''of the Jews.'') [http://books.google.com/books?vid=0HE_WUCP1d5BX8OJ&id=GMfyJ2PeD-cC&pg=RA12-PA207&lpg=RA12-PA207&as_brr=1 1874: The popular encyclopedia, volume V, p. 307]

"It was probably the original intention of Caefar to commence the new year with the fhorteft day, the winter folftice at Rome, in the year 46 B. C. (common era)." [http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC03079044&id=cS8EAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA2-PA4&lpg=RA2-PA4&&as_brr=1 1889: "Handy-book of Rules and Tables for Verifying Dates with the Christian Era"]

"Prior to the year A. D. 1865, the Jewish style, namely, the year of the world, was observed by Red Men in dating their documents. At the council held in G. S. 1526, this system was discontinued, and G. S. D. or Great Sun of the Discovery was adopted, the year 1492 being considered G. S. D. 1. To find the date of the old style, add to the common era 3760; e.g. 1877 + 3760 = 5637. To find the date by Red Men's style, subtract 1491 from the common era." ("Red Men" here is a reference to a fraternal organization.) [http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC03825672&id=kZLbGv92SjUC&pg=RA16-PA495&lpg=RA16-PA495&as_brr=1 1893: Official History of the Improved Order of Red Men].

So it's not a ''new'' phrase. In fact, it seems to me that "Christian era" means "the system used by Christians," whereas calling the AD/BC system the "common era" means "this system used by everyone" and thus emphasizes that Christian usage is '''the''' general usage of our society.

The story may be more complicated than that, but that's what I've found so far. Not sure when, how, by whom or for what reason the abbreviations BCE and CE were introduced. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 21:22, 20 December 2006 (EST)

:That's fascinating material. Thanks. Maybe I'm obsessed with this, but it does seem odd that a phrase recently pushed by schools, Wikipedia writers and tests has unknown origin. It's not even in the 1972 dictionary!!! In a current dictionary, it's defined as a substitute for BC/AD without any reference to Jewish people. My quote from the online rabbi shows Judaism is not the source.
:I'll study your sources further. --[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:22, 20 December 2006 (EST)

888888888888888888888888888
What do you mean "It's not in the 1972 dictionary"? Is that the Complete Websters, the Oxford or some dog-eared little junior high book? Here's a current definition from a free on-line encyclopedia at http://www.reference.com/search?q=Common%20Era

"The Common era (also known as the Christian era or the Current era, abbreviated to CE) is the period of measured time beginning with the year 1 on the Gregorian calendar. The notations CE and BCE (Before the Common Era) are alternative notations for AD (anno Domini, Latin for "in the year of (Our) Lord") and BC (Before Christ), respectively. The CE/BCE system of notation is chronologically equivalent to dates in the AD/BC system, i.e. no change in numbering is used and neither includes a year zero. The abbreviations may also be written C.E. and B.C.E.

The term common era is preferred by some as an alternative to the more overtly religious AD and BC, since Common Era does not explicitly make use of religious titles for Jesus, such as Christ and Lord, which are used in the AD/BC notation. Some criticize Common Era notation as a euphemism that does not alter the pivotal year one still centering on the life of Jesus. Many others criticize the notation as an unnecessary attempt at political correctness."

This is the sort of clear and simple info, obtainable at the press of a button that the writer of this article has struggled for 25 years (in vain) to determine, receiving no help from a nameless "professor of European history" as quoted here:

"Now, 25 years and a number of common errors later, I assume that Common Era simply means "the date commonly accepted and used." But the truth is that I don't know, so I asked your question to a professor of European history. He didn't know either. (Last two sentences bolded to emphasise the enormous irony of it all)"

We are indeed fortunate that someone so self-confessedly ignorant on a subject should not have been deterred from knocking off a piece on that very matter for a global encyclopedia.

Some brief points:

1. I was taught that the BCE/CE dating convention was adopted primarily for works of an academic nature, typically in the fields of comparative religious studies and the like, where there is a focus on inter-faith dialogue, so as not to appear unnecessarily chauvinistic in asserting the tenets of Christian faith over those of others. In particular the Jews most expressly do NOT believe that Jesus “Was [their] Saviour” as is implied by the words behind the acronyms.

2. Call this a sop, or “caving in to the enemy” or whatever, but it was never intended to indicate that Christians were abandoning their faith, but merely as a gesture of tolerance within fields of study where respect for diversity (and OTHER PEOPLE'S faith) was essential.

3. To foment an acrid dispute over suchlike sounds a lot like the battle of the Big Endians and Little Endians in Swift’s “Gulliver’s Travellers”. Or, more recently and far less fictiously, the kind of throat-cutting vendettas pursued by Balkans over how many fingers you should use when you cross yourself.

4. Personally, if this upsets SOME conservatives so much - those who have divined in this practice a wholesale betrayal of the faith of their fathers - I would quite gladly recommend reversion to the earlier practice. Frankly, wise and well-intentioned man and women of all faiths would understand the nature of the predicament, more than many of you will begin to guess.

5. This controversy, and the even more asinine one on “American spellings”, seems to have provided the requisite steam power for blow-hards to arouse themselves to elevated levels of indignation and over what most other folk would perceive to be trifling matters of custom, protocol and etiquette. Here too, I would recommend adhering to American spelling, which is invariably simpler and more logical. But where would Conservapedia be if the Liberals relented on such epochal issues?
88888888888888888888888888888888

::There's probably an interesting story there. I grant you that the spread of BCE and CE probably ''do'' have ''something'' to do with acknowledging diversity, or political correctness, or liberalism, or something. It's always hard to find out how and why things go in and out of fashion, though. I have a long list of puzzles of that kind. Why did the phrase "to fill the bill" rather suddenly get replaced with "to fit the bill" circa 1990 or so? Why did the phrase "to go missing" or "went missing," which I'd always thought were British, suddenly become ubiquitous in the U. S. starting in, I don't know, the late 1990s? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 05:46, 21 December 2006 (EST)

== Original Research ==

Should original research be allowed in this article? Also, CE is not some conspiracy that is trying to destroy the foundations of Christianity. There are no citations in this article even attempting to show that this view is held outside of this web page. AD/BC where established by Christian scholars and prevailed because the "western" powers remained solidly Christian and happened to colonize most of the world. Now, the world might be 1/6th Christian, but the other 5/6ths are not. Science is a consensus of scientist from around the world and do not only include the U.S. So it would not be prudent to keep the current age as Anno Domini, since the "Lord" is no longer consisting of the majority of the world. The usage of AD is still valid, but CE is not trying to discredit or undermine in some way the original dating method. So I'm going to try to make this article more neutral in the future, but if a majority of you guys think i'm vandalizing or something like that, I'll move on.
As a side note, the Roman Catholic Church (the universal church of Christ) was responsible for the dark ages.

:So CE isn't trying to destroy the foundations of Christianity, but what it is trying to do is remove the word "Lord" from the vocabulary of the general public. I absolutely love Liberal Logic! --[[User:David R|<<-David R->>]] 23:29, 6 March 2007 (EST)

:: Well if I may, there is a real concern here for Jews and Muslims - saying that is the year of the lord is inaccurate and indeed arguably idol worship to use the term. So for those religions at least use of the term "AD" is very problematic (BC less so for obvious reasons). [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:33, 6 March 2007 (EST)

:: If the general public doesn't want the the word "LORD" in the vocabulary then it shouldn't be there. Unless Christianity suddenly implodes i don't think just because a shift in the secular world from AD/BC to CE/BCE is going to do anything. My main concern is if we are trying to counter bias with bias? Also, i'm going to get rid of the original research in this article unless someone adds some citations or something cause i'm not sure where that comes from. [[User:Pinion|Pinion]] 00:50, 7 March 2007 (EST)

::: If this was A Jewish or Muslim site, you might have a point. But as this is a Christian/Conservative Site that does not strive to be politically correct, your point is not valid. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 23:47, 6 March 2007 (EST)
:::: I wasn't commetning on whether it should be used ''here'' I was commenting on how the general motivations of those who use it are not nearly as nefarious as some editors here seem to think. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:55, 6 March 2007 (EST)

== Common Sense, ppl ==

I've heard some good evidence and argument in this talk page, but the idea that BCE and CE are a liberal agenda thing or one of "wikipedia's bias" signs is an absolutely baseless and, furthermore, stupid notion. Let me introduce a theory:

We don't know the year of Jesus's birth. We DO know that it is almost absolutely NOT 0 BC/AD. [http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_date.htm#year].

So BCE/CE was created with this date (since people are just used to it, no need to change it. Pretty conservative of them, wouldn't you say?) as the reference. It's just a reference date with no meaning, so we can have an absolute origin point on a timeline. Say it with me. "Its just a reference date." That felt good, huh?

Don't you think it's a positive thing for the Christian religion to remove an obvious error from it? Hell, they do us a favor by just separating the two topics. You should be thankful, not suspicious. [[User:Muchodelcrazy|Muchodelcrazy]] 00:18, 8 March 2007 (EST)

== Rabbi Dialogue ==

What is the point of the dialogue between the rabbi and whoever? What purpose does it serve to illuminate people as to what CE means? Furthermore the "reference" doesn't have any other references, nor does it even say who the professor of European history was. It also doesn't have a copy of the transcript between the rabbi and the supposed professor. --[[User:Trekie9001|trekie9001]] 02:36, 9 March 2007 (EST)
:This section is unecessary and has to much first person. It doesn't sound encyclopaedic. [[User:Bobtexas|Bobtexas]] 02:35, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

==Christian Era==
Where is the proof that CE stands for Common Era? I thought that it stood for Christian Era. As the article implies, the term CE was not in wide use 35 years ago. It has since caught on, but for what reason?

The term Christian Era appears to be much older, and it is listed in all the major dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster's, American Heritage, and Compact Oxford English Dictionary. It may be true that CE was promoted by people claiming that it was a non-Christian term, but maybe it only was accepted by people who took it to mean Christian Era. Does anyone know?

I think that the article should be revised to say that CE stands for Christian Era. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:40, 9 March 2007 (EST)

== References ==

There are no references to whatever Common Era means only to some irrelevant site with a quotation explaining about someone not knowing what CE means.

== Lack of dictionary definition ==

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but might the reason for the fact that a 1972 edition of a dictionary might not have the term be that it wasn't in common use in 1972? You might try looking in a more modern dictionary. It doesn't seem like the most credible piece of evidence. [[User:Alethiophile|Alethiophile]] 18:25, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Talk:CE

2007-03-14T06:35:35Z

Bobtexas: /* Rabbi Dialogue */

Actually, on checking, I find that "common era" can be
*a generic term meaning ''any'' standardized system of numbering years based on any epoch, e.g. the Jewish year is in "the common era of the Jews."
*a term used to distinguish the "ordinary" BC/AD epoch ''from others used by Christians.'' E.g. "puts his death in the seventh year of Trajan, i.e. in 104 of the common era."[http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC04334900&id=qLfiIApQVDkC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=%22common+era%22&as_brr=1]

And the phrase has been in use for well over a century.

Thus: "The common era of the Jews places the creation in B. C. 3760" (where B. C. here means "before the common era ''of the Jews.'') [http://books.google.com/books?vid=0HE_WUCP1d5BX8OJ&id=GMfyJ2PeD-cC&pg=RA12-PA207&lpg=RA12-PA207&as_brr=1 1874: The popular encyclopedia, volume V, p. 307]

"It was probably the original intention of Caefar to commence the new year with the fhorteft day, the winter folftice at Rome, in the year 46 B. C. (common era)." [http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC03079044&id=cS8EAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA2-PA4&lpg=RA2-PA4&&as_brr=1 1889: "Handy-book of Rules and Tables for Verifying Dates with the Christian Era"]

"Prior to the year A. D. 1865, the Jewish style, namely, the year of the world, was observed by Red Men in dating their documents. At the council held in G. S. 1526, this system was discontinued, and G. S. D. or Great Sun of the Discovery was adopted, the year 1492 being considered G. S. D. 1. To find the date of the old style, add to the common era 3760; e.g. 1877 + 3760 = 5637. To find the date by Red Men's style, subtract 1491 from the common era." ("Red Men" here is a reference to a fraternal organization.) [http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC03825672&id=kZLbGv92SjUC&pg=RA16-PA495&lpg=RA16-PA495&as_brr=1 1893: Official History of the Improved Order of Red Men].

So it's not a ''new'' phrase. In fact, it seems to me that "Christian era" means "the system used by Christians," whereas calling the AD/BC system the "common era" means "this system used by everyone" and thus emphasizes that Christian usage is '''the''' general usage of our society.

The story may be more complicated than that, but that's what I've found so far. Not sure when, how, by whom or for what reason the abbreviations BCE and CE were introduced. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 21:22, 20 December 2006 (EST)

:That's fascinating material. Thanks. Maybe I'm obsessed with this, but it does seem odd that a phrase recently pushed by schools, Wikipedia writers and tests has unknown origin. It's not even in the 1972 dictionary!!! In a current dictionary, it's defined as a substitute for BC/AD without any reference to Jewish people. My quote from the online rabbi shows Judaism is not the source.
:I'll study your sources further. --[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:22, 20 December 2006 (EST)

888888888888888888888888888
What do you mean "It's not in the 1972 dictionary"? Is that the Complete Websters, the Oxford or some dog-eared little junior high book? Here's a current definition from a free on-line encyclopedia at http://www.reference.com/search?q=Common%20Era

"The Common era (also known as the Christian era or the Current era, abbreviated to CE) is the period of measured time beginning with the year 1 on the Gregorian calendar. The notations CE and BCE (Before the Common Era) are alternative notations for AD (anno Domini, Latin for "in the year of (Our) Lord") and BC (Before Christ), respectively. The CE/BCE system of notation is chronologically equivalent to dates in the AD/BC system, i.e. no change in numbering is used and neither includes a year zero. The abbreviations may also be written C.E. and B.C.E.

The term common era is preferred by some as an alternative to the more overtly religious AD and BC, since Common Era does not explicitly make use of religious titles for Jesus, such as Christ and Lord, which are used in the AD/BC notation. Some criticize Common Era notation as a euphemism that does not alter the pivotal year one still centering on the life of Jesus. Many others criticize the notation as an unnecessary attempt at political correctness."

This is the sort of clear and simple info, obtainable at the press of a button that the writer of this article has struggled for 25 years (in vain) to determine, receiving no help from a nameless "professor of European history" as quoted here:

"Now, 25 years and a number of common errors later, I assume that Common Era simply means "the date commonly accepted and used." But the truth is that I don't know, so I asked your question to a professor of European history. He didn't know either. (Last two sentences bolded to emphasise the enormous irony of it all)"

We are indeed fortunate that someone so self-confessedly ignorant on a subject should not have been deterred from knocking off a piece on that very matter for a global encyclopedia.

Some brief points:

1. I was taught that the BCE/CE dating convention was adopted primarily for works of an academic nature, typically in the fields of comparative religious studies and the like, where there is a focus on inter-faith dialogue, so as not to appear unnecessarily chauvinistic in asserting the tenets of Christian faith over those of others. In particular the Jews most expressly do NOT believe that Jesus “Was [their] Saviour” as is implied by the words behind the acronyms.

2. Call this a sop, or “caving in to the enemy” or whatever, but it was never intended to indicate that Christians were abandoning their faith, but merely as a gesture of tolerance within fields of study where respect for diversity (and OTHER PEOPLE'S faith) was essential.

3. To foment an acrid dispute over suchlike sounds a lot like the battle of the Big Endians and Little Endians in Swift’s “Gulliver’s Travellers”. Or, more recently and far less fictiously, the kind of throat-cutting vendettas pursued by Balkans over how many fingers you should use when you cross yourself.

4. Personally, if this upsets SOME conservatives so much - those who have divined in this practice a wholesale betrayal of the faith of their fathers - I would quite gladly recommend reversion to the earlier practice. Frankly, wise and well-intentioned man and women of all faiths would understand the nature of the predicament, more than many of you will begin to guess.

5. This controversy, and the even more asinine one on “American spellings”, seems to have provided the requisite steam power for blow-hards to arouse themselves to elevated levels of indignation and over what most other folk would perceive to be trifling matters of custom, protocol and etiquette. Here too, I would recommend adhering to American spelling, which is invariably simpler and more logical. But where would Conservapedia be if the Liberals relented on such epochal issues?
88888888888888888888888888888888

::There's probably an interesting story there. I grant you that the spread of BCE and CE probably ''do'' have ''something'' to do with acknowledging diversity, or political correctness, or liberalism, or something. It's always hard to find out how and why things go in and out of fashion, though. I have a long list of puzzles of that kind. Why did the phrase "to fill the bill" rather suddenly get replaced with "to fit the bill" circa 1990 or so? Why did the phrase "to go missing" or "went missing," which I'd always thought were British, suddenly become ubiquitous in the U. S. starting in, I don't know, the late 1990s? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 05:46, 21 December 2006 (EST)

== Original Research ==

Should original research be allowed in this article? Also, CE is not some conspiracy that is trying to destroy the foundations of Christianity. There are no citations in this article even attempting to show that this view is held outside of this web page. AD/BC where established by Christian scholars and prevailed because the "western" powers remained solidly Christian and happened to colonize most of the world. Now, the world might be 1/6th Christian, but the other 5/6ths are not. Science is a consensus of scientist from around the world and do not only include the U.S. So it would not be prudent to keep the current age as Anno Domini, since the "Lord" is no longer consisting of the majority of the world. The usage of AD is still valid, but CE is not trying to discredit or undermine in some way the original dating method. So I'm going to try to make this article more neutral in the future, but if a majority of you guys think i'm vandalizing or something like that, I'll move on.
As a side note, the Roman Catholic Church (the universal church of Christ) was responsible for the dark ages.

:So CE isn't trying to destroy the foundations of Christianity, but what it is trying to do is remove the word "Lord" from the vocabulary of the general public. I absolutely love Liberal Logic! --[[User:David R|<<-David R->>]] 23:29, 6 March 2007 (EST)

:: Well if I may, there is a real concern here for Jews and Muslims - saying that is the year of the lord is inaccurate and indeed arguably idol worship to use the term. So for those religions at least use of the term "AD" is very problematic (BC less so for obvious reasons). [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:33, 6 March 2007 (EST)

:: If the general public doesn't want the the word "LORD" in the vocabulary then it shouldn't be there. Unless Christianity suddenly implodes i don't think just because a shift in the secular world from AD/BC to CE/BCE is going to do anything. My main concern is if we are trying to counter bias with bias? Also, i'm going to get rid of the original research in this article unless someone adds some citations or something cause i'm not sure where that comes from. [[User:Pinion|Pinion]] 00:50, 7 March 2007 (EST)

::: If this was A Jewish or Muslim site, you might have a point. But as this is a Christian/Conservative Site that does not strive to be politically correct, your point is not valid. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 23:47, 6 March 2007 (EST)
:::: I wasn't commetning on whether it should be used ''here'' I was commenting on how the general motivations of those who use it are not nearly as nefarious as some editors here seem to think. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:55, 6 March 2007 (EST)

== Common Sense, ppl ==

I've heard some good evidence and argument in this talk page, but the idea that BCE and CE are a liberal agenda thing or one of "wikipedia's bias" signs is an absolutely baseless and, furthermore, stupid notion. Let me introduce a theory:

We don't know the year of Jesus's birth. We DO know that it is almost absolutely NOT 0 BC/AD. [http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_date.htm#year].

So BCE/CE was created with this date (since people are just used to it, no need to change it. Pretty conservative of them, wouldn't you say?) as the reference. It's just a reference date with no meaning, so we can have an absolute origin point on a timeline. Say it with me. "Its just a reference date." That felt good, huh?

Don't you think it's a positive thing for the Christian religion to remove an obvious error from it? Hell, they do us a favor by just separating the two topics. You should be thankful, not suspicious. [[User:Muchodelcrazy|Muchodelcrazy]] 00:18, 8 March 2007 (EST)

== Rabbi Dialogue ==

What is the point of the dialogue between the rabbi and whoever? What purpose does it serve to illuminate people as to what CE means? Furthermore the "reference" doesn't have any other references, nor does it even say who the professor of European history was. It also doesn't have a copy of the transcript between the rabbi and the supposed professor. --[[User:Trekie9001|trekie9001]] 02:36, 9 March 2007 (EST)
:This section is unecessary and has to much first person. It doesn't sound encyclopaedic. [[Bobtexas|Bobtexas]] 02:35, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

==Christian Era==
Where is the proof that CE stands for Common Era? I thought that it stood for Christian Era. As the article implies, the term CE was not in wide use 35 years ago. It has since caught on, but for what reason?

The term Christian Era appears to be much older, and it is listed in all the major dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster's, American Heritage, and Compact Oxford English Dictionary. It may be true that CE was promoted by people claiming that it was a non-Christian term, but maybe it only was accepted by people who took it to mean Christian Era. Does anyone know?

I think that the article should be revised to say that CE stands for Christian Era. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:40, 9 March 2007 (EST)

== References ==

There are no references to whatever Common Era means only to some irrelevant site with a quotation explaining about someone not knowing what CE means.

== Lack of dictionary definition ==

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but might the reason for the fact that a 1972 edition of a dictionary might not have the term be that it wasn't in common use in 1972? You might try looking in a more modern dictionary. It doesn't seem like the most credible piece of evidence. [[User:Alethiophile|Alethiophile]] 18:25, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Talk:CE

2007-03-14T06:35:18Z

Bobtexas: /* Rabbi Dialogue */

Actually, on checking, I find that "common era" can be
*a generic term meaning ''any'' standardized system of numbering years based on any epoch, e.g. the Jewish year is in "the common era of the Jews."
*a term used to distinguish the "ordinary" BC/AD epoch ''from others used by Christians.'' E.g. "puts his death in the seventh year of Trajan, i.e. in 104 of the common era."[http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC04334900&id=qLfiIApQVDkC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=%22common+era%22&as_brr=1]

And the phrase has been in use for well over a century.

Thus: "The common era of the Jews places the creation in B. C. 3760" (where B. C. here means "before the common era ''of the Jews.'') [http://books.google.com/books?vid=0HE_WUCP1d5BX8OJ&id=GMfyJ2PeD-cC&pg=RA12-PA207&lpg=RA12-PA207&as_brr=1 1874: The popular encyclopedia, volume V, p. 307]

"It was probably the original intention of Caefar to commence the new year with the fhorteft day, the winter folftice at Rome, in the year 46 B. C. (common era)." [http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC03079044&id=cS8EAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA2-PA4&lpg=RA2-PA4&&as_brr=1 1889: "Handy-book of Rules and Tables for Verifying Dates with the Christian Era"]

"Prior to the year A. D. 1865, the Jewish style, namely, the year of the world, was observed by Red Men in dating their documents. At the council held in G. S. 1526, this system was discontinued, and G. S. D. or Great Sun of the Discovery was adopted, the year 1492 being considered G. S. D. 1. To find the date of the old style, add to the common era 3760; e.g. 1877 + 3760 = 5637. To find the date by Red Men's style, subtract 1491 from the common era." ("Red Men" here is a reference to a fraternal organization.) [http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC03825672&id=kZLbGv92SjUC&pg=RA16-PA495&lpg=RA16-PA495&as_brr=1 1893: Official History of the Improved Order of Red Men].

So it's not a ''new'' phrase. In fact, it seems to me that "Christian era" means "the system used by Christians," whereas calling the AD/BC system the "common era" means "this system used by everyone" and thus emphasizes that Christian usage is '''the''' general usage of our society.

The story may be more complicated than that, but that's what I've found so far. Not sure when, how, by whom or for what reason the abbreviations BCE and CE were introduced. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 21:22, 20 December 2006 (EST)

:That's fascinating material. Thanks. Maybe I'm obsessed with this, but it does seem odd that a phrase recently pushed by schools, Wikipedia writers and tests has unknown origin. It's not even in the 1972 dictionary!!! In a current dictionary, it's defined as a substitute for BC/AD without any reference to Jewish people. My quote from the online rabbi shows Judaism is not the source.
:I'll study your sources further. --[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:22, 20 December 2006 (EST)

888888888888888888888888888
What do you mean "It's not in the 1972 dictionary"? Is that the Complete Websters, the Oxford or some dog-eared little junior high book? Here's a current definition from a free on-line encyclopedia at http://www.reference.com/search?q=Common%20Era

"The Common era (also known as the Christian era or the Current era, abbreviated to CE) is the period of measured time beginning with the year 1 on the Gregorian calendar. The notations CE and BCE (Before the Common Era) are alternative notations for AD (anno Domini, Latin for "in the year of (Our) Lord") and BC (Before Christ), respectively. The CE/BCE system of notation is chronologically equivalent to dates in the AD/BC system, i.e. no change in numbering is used and neither includes a year zero. The abbreviations may also be written C.E. and B.C.E.

The term common era is preferred by some as an alternative to the more overtly religious AD and BC, since Common Era does not explicitly make use of religious titles for Jesus, such as Christ and Lord, which are used in the AD/BC notation. Some criticize Common Era notation as a euphemism that does not alter the pivotal year one still centering on the life of Jesus. Many others criticize the notation as an unnecessary attempt at political correctness."

This is the sort of clear and simple info, obtainable at the press of a button that the writer of this article has struggled for 25 years (in vain) to determine, receiving no help from a nameless "professor of European history" as quoted here:

"Now, 25 years and a number of common errors later, I assume that Common Era simply means "the date commonly accepted and used." But the truth is that I don't know, so I asked your question to a professor of European history. He didn't know either. (Last two sentences bolded to emphasise the enormous irony of it all)"

We are indeed fortunate that someone so self-confessedly ignorant on a subject should not have been deterred from knocking off a piece on that very matter for a global encyclopedia.

Some brief points:

1. I was taught that the BCE/CE dating convention was adopted primarily for works of an academic nature, typically in the fields of comparative religious studies and the like, where there is a focus on inter-faith dialogue, so as not to appear unnecessarily chauvinistic in asserting the tenets of Christian faith over those of others. In particular the Jews most expressly do NOT believe that Jesus “Was [their] Saviour” as is implied by the words behind the acronyms.

2. Call this a sop, or “caving in to the enemy” or whatever, but it was never intended to indicate that Christians were abandoning their faith, but merely as a gesture of tolerance within fields of study where respect for diversity (and OTHER PEOPLE'S faith) was essential.

3. To foment an acrid dispute over suchlike sounds a lot like the battle of the Big Endians and Little Endians in Swift’s “Gulliver’s Travellers”. Or, more recently and far less fictiously, the kind of throat-cutting vendettas pursued by Balkans over how many fingers you should use when you cross yourself.

4. Personally, if this upsets SOME conservatives so much - those who have divined in this practice a wholesale betrayal of the faith of their fathers - I would quite gladly recommend reversion to the earlier practice. Frankly, wise and well-intentioned man and women of all faiths would understand the nature of the predicament, more than many of you will begin to guess.

5. This controversy, and the even more asinine one on “American spellings”, seems to have provided the requisite steam power for blow-hards to arouse themselves to elevated levels of indignation and over what most other folk would perceive to be trifling matters of custom, protocol and etiquette. Here too, I would recommend adhering to American spelling, which is invariably simpler and more logical. But where would Conservapedia be if the Liberals relented on such epochal issues?
88888888888888888888888888888888

::There's probably an interesting story there. I grant you that the spread of BCE and CE probably ''do'' have ''something'' to do with acknowledging diversity, or political correctness, or liberalism, or something. It's always hard to find out how and why things go in and out of fashion, though. I have a long list of puzzles of that kind. Why did the phrase "to fill the bill" rather suddenly get replaced with "to fit the bill" circa 1990 or so? Why did the phrase "to go missing" or "went missing," which I'd always thought were British, suddenly become ubiquitous in the U. S. starting in, I don't know, the late 1990s? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 05:46, 21 December 2006 (EST)

== Original Research ==

Should original research be allowed in this article? Also, CE is not some conspiracy that is trying to destroy the foundations of Christianity. There are no citations in this article even attempting to show that this view is held outside of this web page. AD/BC where established by Christian scholars and prevailed because the "western" powers remained solidly Christian and happened to colonize most of the world. Now, the world might be 1/6th Christian, but the other 5/6ths are not. Science is a consensus of scientist from around the world and do not only include the U.S. So it would not be prudent to keep the current age as Anno Domini, since the "Lord" is no longer consisting of the majority of the world. The usage of AD is still valid, but CE is not trying to discredit or undermine in some way the original dating method. So I'm going to try to make this article more neutral in the future, but if a majority of you guys think i'm vandalizing or something like that, I'll move on.
As a side note, the Roman Catholic Church (the universal church of Christ) was responsible for the dark ages.

:So CE isn't trying to destroy the foundations of Christianity, but what it is trying to do is remove the word "Lord" from the vocabulary of the general public. I absolutely love Liberal Logic! --[[User:David R|<<-David R->>]] 23:29, 6 March 2007 (EST)

:: Well if I may, there is a real concern here for Jews and Muslims - saying that is the year of the lord is inaccurate and indeed arguably idol worship to use the term. So for those religions at least use of the term "AD" is very problematic (BC less so for obvious reasons). [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:33, 6 March 2007 (EST)

:: If the general public doesn't want the the word "LORD" in the vocabulary then it shouldn't be there. Unless Christianity suddenly implodes i don't think just because a shift in the secular world from AD/BC to CE/BCE is going to do anything. My main concern is if we are trying to counter bias with bias? Also, i'm going to get rid of the original research in this article unless someone adds some citations or something cause i'm not sure where that comes from. [[User:Pinion|Pinion]] 00:50, 7 March 2007 (EST)

::: If this was A Jewish or Muslim site, you might have a point. But as this is a Christian/Conservative Site that does not strive to be politically correct, your point is not valid. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 23:47, 6 March 2007 (EST)
:::: I wasn't commetning on whether it should be used ''here'' I was commenting on how the general motivations of those who use it are not nearly as nefarious as some editors here seem to think. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:55, 6 March 2007 (EST)

== Common Sense, ppl ==

I've heard some good evidence and argument in this talk page, but the idea that BCE and CE are a liberal agenda thing or one of "wikipedia's bias" signs is an absolutely baseless and, furthermore, stupid notion. Let me introduce a theory:

We don't know the year of Jesus's birth. We DO know that it is almost absolutely NOT 0 BC/AD. [http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_date.htm#year].

So BCE/CE was created with this date (since people are just used to it, no need to change it. Pretty conservative of them, wouldn't you say?) as the reference. It's just a reference date with no meaning, so we can have an absolute origin point on a timeline. Say it with me. "Its just a reference date." That felt good, huh?

Don't you think it's a positive thing for the Christian religion to remove an obvious error from it? Hell, they do us a favor by just separating the two topics. You should be thankful, not suspicious. [[User:Muchodelcrazy|Muchodelcrazy]] 00:18, 8 March 2007 (EST)

== Rabbi Dialogue ==

What is the point of the dialogue between the rabbi and whoever? What purpose does it serve to illuminate people as to what CE means? Furthermore the "reference" doesn't have any other references, nor does it even say who the professor of European history was. It also doesn't have a copy of the transcript between the rabbi and the supposed professor. --[[User:Trekie9001|trekie9001]] 02:36, 9 March 2007 (EST)
:This section is unecessary and has to much first person. It doesn't sound encyclopaedic. [[Bobtexas]] 02:35, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

==Christian Era==
Where is the proof that CE stands for Common Era? I thought that it stood for Christian Era. As the article implies, the term CE was not in wide use 35 years ago. It has since caught on, but for what reason?

The term Christian Era appears to be much older, and it is listed in all the major dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster's, American Heritage, and Compact Oxford English Dictionary. It may be true that CE was promoted by people claiming that it was a non-Christian term, but maybe it only was accepted by people who took it to mean Christian Era. Does anyone know?

I think that the article should be revised to say that CE stands for Christian Era. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:40, 9 March 2007 (EST)

== References ==

There are no references to whatever Common Era means only to some irrelevant site with a quotation explaining about someone not knowing what CE means.

== Lack of dictionary definition ==

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but might the reason for the fact that a 1972 edition of a dictionary might not have the term be that it wasn't in common use in 1972? You might try looking in a more modern dictionary. It doesn't seem like the most credible piece of evidence. [[User:Alethiophile|Alethiophile]] 18:25, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Talk:CE

2007-03-14T06:34:51Z

Bobtexas: /* Rabbi Dialogue */

Actually, on checking, I find that "common era" can be
*a generic term meaning ''any'' standardized system of numbering years based on any epoch, e.g. the Jewish year is in "the common era of the Jews."
*a term used to distinguish the "ordinary" BC/AD epoch ''from others used by Christians.'' E.g. "puts his death in the seventh year of Trajan, i.e. in 104 of the common era."[http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC04334900&id=qLfiIApQVDkC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=%22common+era%22&as_brr=1]

And the phrase has been in use for well over a century.

Thus: "The common era of the Jews places the creation in B. C. 3760" (where B. C. here means "before the common era ''of the Jews.'') [http://books.google.com/books?vid=0HE_WUCP1d5BX8OJ&id=GMfyJ2PeD-cC&pg=RA12-PA207&lpg=RA12-PA207&as_brr=1 1874: The popular encyclopedia, volume V, p. 307]

"It was probably the original intention of Caefar to commence the new year with the fhorteft day, the winter folftice at Rome, in the year 46 B. C. (common era)." [http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC03079044&id=cS8EAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA2-PA4&lpg=RA2-PA4&&as_brr=1 1889: "Handy-book of Rules and Tables for Verifying Dates with the Christian Era"]

"Prior to the year A. D. 1865, the Jewish style, namely, the year of the world, was observed by Red Men in dating their documents. At the council held in G. S. 1526, this system was discontinued, and G. S. D. or Great Sun of the Discovery was adopted, the year 1492 being considered G. S. D. 1. To find the date of the old style, add to the common era 3760; e.g. 1877 + 3760 = 5637. To find the date by Red Men's style, subtract 1491 from the common era." ("Red Men" here is a reference to a fraternal organization.) [http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC03825672&id=kZLbGv92SjUC&pg=RA16-PA495&lpg=RA16-PA495&as_brr=1 1893: Official History of the Improved Order of Red Men].

So it's not a ''new'' phrase. In fact, it seems to me that "Christian era" means "the system used by Christians," whereas calling the AD/BC system the "common era" means "this system used by everyone" and thus emphasizes that Christian usage is '''the''' general usage of our society.

The story may be more complicated than that, but that's what I've found so far. Not sure when, how, by whom or for what reason the abbreviations BCE and CE were introduced. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 21:22, 20 December 2006 (EST)

:That's fascinating material. Thanks. Maybe I'm obsessed with this, but it does seem odd that a phrase recently pushed by schools, Wikipedia writers and tests has unknown origin. It's not even in the 1972 dictionary!!! In a current dictionary, it's defined as a substitute for BC/AD without any reference to Jewish people. My quote from the online rabbi shows Judaism is not the source.
:I'll study your sources further. --[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:22, 20 December 2006 (EST)

888888888888888888888888888
What do you mean "It's not in the 1972 dictionary"? Is that the Complete Websters, the Oxford or some dog-eared little junior high book? Here's a current definition from a free on-line encyclopedia at http://www.reference.com/search?q=Common%20Era

"The Common era (also known as the Christian era or the Current era, abbreviated to CE) is the period of measured time beginning with the year 1 on the Gregorian calendar. The notations CE and BCE (Before the Common Era) are alternative notations for AD (anno Domini, Latin for "in the year of (Our) Lord") and BC (Before Christ), respectively. The CE/BCE system of notation is chronologically equivalent to dates in the AD/BC system, i.e. no change in numbering is used and neither includes a year zero. The abbreviations may also be written C.E. and B.C.E.

The term common era is preferred by some as an alternative to the more overtly religious AD and BC, since Common Era does not explicitly make use of religious titles for Jesus, such as Christ and Lord, which are used in the AD/BC notation. Some criticize Common Era notation as a euphemism that does not alter the pivotal year one still centering on the life of Jesus. Many others criticize the notation as an unnecessary attempt at political correctness."

This is the sort of clear and simple info, obtainable at the press of a button that the writer of this article has struggled for 25 years (in vain) to determine, receiving no help from a nameless "professor of European history" as quoted here:

"Now, 25 years and a number of common errors later, I assume that Common Era simply means "the date commonly accepted and used." But the truth is that I don't know, so I asked your question to a professor of European history. He didn't know either. (Last two sentences bolded to emphasise the enormous irony of it all)"

We are indeed fortunate that someone so self-confessedly ignorant on a subject should not have been deterred from knocking off a piece on that very matter for a global encyclopedia.

Some brief points:

1. I was taught that the BCE/CE dating convention was adopted primarily for works of an academic nature, typically in the fields of comparative religious studies and the like, where there is a focus on inter-faith dialogue, so as not to appear unnecessarily chauvinistic in asserting the tenets of Christian faith over those of others. In particular the Jews most expressly do NOT believe that Jesus “Was [their] Saviour” as is implied by the words behind the acronyms.

2. Call this a sop, or “caving in to the enemy” or whatever, but it was never intended to indicate that Christians were abandoning their faith, but merely as a gesture of tolerance within fields of study where respect for diversity (and OTHER PEOPLE'S faith) was essential.

3. To foment an acrid dispute over suchlike sounds a lot like the battle of the Big Endians and Little Endians in Swift’s “Gulliver’s Travellers”. Or, more recently and far less fictiously, the kind of throat-cutting vendettas pursued by Balkans over how many fingers you should use when you cross yourself.

4. Personally, if this upsets SOME conservatives so much - those who have divined in this practice a wholesale betrayal of the faith of their fathers - I would quite gladly recommend reversion to the earlier practice. Frankly, wise and well-intentioned man and women of all faiths would understand the nature of the predicament, more than many of you will begin to guess.

5. This controversy, and the even more asinine one on “American spellings”, seems to have provided the requisite steam power for blow-hards to arouse themselves to elevated levels of indignation and over what most other folk would perceive to be trifling matters of custom, protocol and etiquette. Here too, I would recommend adhering to American spelling, which is invariably simpler and more logical. But where would Conservapedia be if the Liberals relented on such epochal issues?
88888888888888888888888888888888

::There's probably an interesting story there. I grant you that the spread of BCE and CE probably ''do'' have ''something'' to do with acknowledging diversity, or political correctness, or liberalism, or something. It's always hard to find out how and why things go in and out of fashion, though. I have a long list of puzzles of that kind. Why did the phrase "to fill the bill" rather suddenly get replaced with "to fit the bill" circa 1990 or so? Why did the phrase "to go missing" or "went missing," which I'd always thought were British, suddenly become ubiquitous in the U. S. starting in, I don't know, the late 1990s? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 05:46, 21 December 2006 (EST)

== Original Research ==

Should original research be allowed in this article? Also, CE is not some conspiracy that is trying to destroy the foundations of Christianity. There are no citations in this article even attempting to show that this view is held outside of this web page. AD/BC where established by Christian scholars and prevailed because the "western" powers remained solidly Christian and happened to colonize most of the world. Now, the world might be 1/6th Christian, but the other 5/6ths are not. Science is a consensus of scientist from around the world and do not only include the U.S. So it would not be prudent to keep the current age as Anno Domini, since the "Lord" is no longer consisting of the majority of the world. The usage of AD is still valid, but CE is not trying to discredit or undermine in some way the original dating method. So I'm going to try to make this article more neutral in the future, but if a majority of you guys think i'm vandalizing or something like that, I'll move on.
As a side note, the Roman Catholic Church (the universal church of Christ) was responsible for the dark ages.

:So CE isn't trying to destroy the foundations of Christianity, but what it is trying to do is remove the word "Lord" from the vocabulary of the general public. I absolutely love Liberal Logic! --[[User:David R|<<-David R->>]] 23:29, 6 March 2007 (EST)

:: Well if I may, there is a real concern here for Jews and Muslims - saying that is the year of the lord is inaccurate and indeed arguably idol worship to use the term. So for those religions at least use of the term "AD" is very problematic (BC less so for obvious reasons). [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:33, 6 March 2007 (EST)

:: If the general public doesn't want the the word "LORD" in the vocabulary then it shouldn't be there. Unless Christianity suddenly implodes i don't think just because a shift in the secular world from AD/BC to CE/BCE is going to do anything. My main concern is if we are trying to counter bias with bias? Also, i'm going to get rid of the original research in this article unless someone adds some citations or something cause i'm not sure where that comes from. [[User:Pinion|Pinion]] 00:50, 7 March 2007 (EST)

::: If this was A Jewish or Muslim site, you might have a point. But as this is a Christian/Conservative Site that does not strive to be politically correct, your point is not valid. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 23:47, 6 March 2007 (EST)
:::: I wasn't commetning on whether it should be used ''here'' I was commenting on how the general motivations of those who use it are not nearly as nefarious as some editors here seem to think. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:55, 6 March 2007 (EST)

== Common Sense, ppl ==

I've heard some good evidence and argument in this talk page, but the idea that BCE and CE are a liberal agenda thing or one of "wikipedia's bias" signs is an absolutely baseless and, furthermore, stupid notion. Let me introduce a theory:

We don't know the year of Jesus's birth. We DO know that it is almost absolutely NOT 0 BC/AD. [http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_date.htm#year].

So BCE/CE was created with this date (since people are just used to it, no need to change it. Pretty conservative of them, wouldn't you say?) as the reference. It's just a reference date with no meaning, so we can have an absolute origin point on a timeline. Say it with me. "Its just a reference date." That felt good, huh?

Don't you think it's a positive thing for the Christian religion to remove an obvious error from it? Hell, they do us a favor by just separating the two topics. You should be thankful, not suspicious. [[User:Muchodelcrazy|Muchodelcrazy]] 00:18, 8 March 2007 (EST)

== Rabbi Dialogue ==

What is the point of the dialogue between the rabbi and whoever? What purpose does it serve to illuminate people as to what CE means? Furthermore the "reference" doesn't have any other references, nor does it even say who the professor of European history was. It also doesn't have a copy of the transcript between the rabbi and the supposed professor. --[[User:Trekie9001|trekie9001]] 02:36, 9 March 2007 (EST)
:This section is unecessary and has to much first person. It doesn't sound encyclopaedic.

==Christian Era==
Where is the proof that CE stands for Common Era? I thought that it stood for Christian Era. As the article implies, the term CE was not in wide use 35 years ago. It has since caught on, but for what reason?

The term Christian Era appears to be much older, and it is listed in all the major dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster's, American Heritage, and Compact Oxford English Dictionary. It may be true that CE was promoted by people claiming that it was a non-Christian term, but maybe it only was accepted by people who took it to mean Christian Era. Does anyone know?

I think that the article should be revised to say that CE stands for Christian Era. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:40, 9 March 2007 (EST)

== References ==

There are no references to whatever Common Era means only to some irrelevant site with a quotation explaining about someone not knowing what CE means.

== Lack of dictionary definition ==

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but might the reason for the fact that a 1972 edition of a dictionary might not have the term be that it wasn't in common use in 1972? You might try looking in a more modern dictionary. It doesn't seem like the most credible piece of evidence. [[User:Alethiophile|Alethiophile]] 18:25, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Ken Ham

2007-03-14T06:14:20Z

Bobtexas:

'''Ken Ham''' is an Australian supporter of the [[Intelligent Design]] and president of [[Answers in Genesis]].

Cello

2007-03-14T06:09:40Z

Bobtexas:

The '''cello''' is the lowest-pitch [[String Instruments]] of the violin family. It often shares the melody with the [[Violin]] in western [[orchestra]]. [[Ludwig van Beethoven|Beethoven]] wrote 32 [[piano]] sonatas but only 5 for cello.

Cello

2007-03-14T06:09:19Z

Bobtexas:

The '''cello''' is the lowest-pitch [[String Instruments]] of the violin family. It often shares the melody with the [[Violin]] in western [[orchestra]]. [[Ludwig Van Beethoven|Beethoven]] wrote 32 [[piano]] sonatas but only 5 for cello.

User:CWilson

2007-03-14T05:56:12Z

Bobtexas:

I teach Bible Study Classes at my Church in Illinois, and know a lot about the Bible and the religious scholars who comment on it. I know the Bible really well, so if you need help with it let me know!

I've just started reading the Bible, and I like the parts I can understand, but the parts I don't understand sound important. Maybe you can help me interpret them sometime! [[User:Bobtexas]] 01:55, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

East

2007-03-14T05:41:08Z

Bobtexas:

East is a direction. It is the direction to the right of you when you look north and to the left of you when you look south. The Sun rises in the east.

Texas

2007-03-14T05:34:32Z

Bobtexas:

Texas is the twenty-eighth state to enter into the union and was admitted on December 29, 1845. It is also the second biggest state in [[America]].

The capital of Texas is [[Austin]], and its largest city is [[Houston]]. Texas is known for being a strong [[Republican]] state.

==Notable Texans==

[[George H.W. Bush]], former president, and his son, [[George W. Bush]], current president, are both Texans.

[[Dwight Eisenhower]], former president, was born in Denison.

[[Pat Garrett]], the policeman who shot [[Billy the Kid]], lived in multiple locations in Texas.

[[Sam Houston]] was the president of Texas when it was an independent nation, and lent his name to Texas's largest city.

[[Howard Hughes]], the reclusive billionaire who was the subject of the movie ''The Aviator'', was born in Humble.

[[Lyndon B. Johnson]], former president, lived and died in Stonewall.

[[Phil McGraw]], talk show host, lived in Wichita Falls at one point.

[[Ted Nugent]], controversial conservative musician, lives near Crawford.

[[Ross Perot]], former presidential candidate, was born in Texarkana.

[[Dan Rather]], former CBS news anchor, was born in Wharton.

{{stub2}}

[[Category:US state]]

Talk:Maya

2007-03-14T05:25:02Z

Bobtexas: Only Precolumbian civilazation to have writing?

== Only Precolumbian civilazation to have writing? ==

I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Didn't the Aztec have writing? I also think the Olmec has an early hieroglyph writing system that hasn't been translated yet.

User:Bobtexas

2007-03-14T05:22:41Z

Bobtexas:

Hi, as you can guess form my username, my name is Bob and I'm from Oklahoma! I'm new to this wiki stuff, so bare with me while I try my best!

Country and Western

2007-03-14T03:46:06Z

Bobtexas:

'''Country and Western''' is a genre of musical style that has remained popular in the [[United States of America]] as well as other countries all over the [[Earth]].

Country and Western originated in the [[South]] and remains most popular there today. It is a mix of black [[blues]] and white [[folk music]]. Some of the most famous country musicians include [[Hank Williams]] and [[Jimmy Rogers]]. Modern country artists today include [[Brad Paysly]] and [[Chris Christopherson]]. Many [[rock and roll]] musicians overlap into country and western too.

Texas

2007-03-14T03:41:12Z

Bobtexas:

The twenty-eight state to enter into the union. It is also the biggest state in [[America]].

{{stub2}}

[[Category:US state]]

Cello

2007-03-14T03:40:13Z

Bobtexas:

The '''cello''' is the lowest-pitch [[String Instruments]] of the violin family. It often shares the melody with the [[Violin]] in western [[orchestra]].

Cello

2007-03-14T03:39:43Z

Bobtexas:

The '''cello''' is the lowest instrument of the violin family. It often shares the melody with the [[Violin]] in western [[orchestra]].

Violin

2007-03-14T03:38:32Z

Bobtexas:

The '''violin''' is the highest pitched [[String Instruments]] used in [[western orchestra]]. Its high pitch makes sense becuase it gives it the melody in most [[classical]] works.

The violin is also used in folk and popular music and is traditionally called a [[fiddle]].

Violin

2007-03-14T03:38:15Z

Bobtexas:

The '''violin''' is the highest pitched [[String Instrument]] used in [[western orchestra]]. Its high pitch makes sense becuase it gives it the melody in most [[classical]] works.

The violin is also used in folk and popular music and is traditionally called a [[fiddle]].

Viola

2007-03-14T03:35:33Z

Bobtexas:

The '''viola''' is one of the four main [[String Instruments]] that comprise a string [[orchestra]]. It serves as the alto voice of the violin family.

Though similar in shape to a [[violin]], the viola is slightly less smaller and lower in pitch by five notes. The tone of the viola also sets it apart from the [[violin]], being more richer in tone and sound.

The viola is subject to many jokes because of its lesser role in orchestral music, implying that one does not require as much talent to play it. However, many musicians claim that the viola is actually more difficult to play and it rewards more than the [[violin]].

Some famous viola players include [[William Primrose]], [[Paul Hindemith]], [[Yuri Bashmet]], [[Nobuko Imay]], [[John Cale]], and [[Whit Schroder]].

Viola

2007-03-14T03:35:01Z

Bobtexas:

The '''viola''' is one of the four main [[string instruments]] that comprise a string [[orchestra]]. It serves as the alto voice of the violin family.

Though similar in shape to a [[violin]], the viola is slightly less smaller and lower in pitch by five notes. The tone of the viola also sets it apart from the [[violin]], being more richer in tone and sound.

The viola is subject to many jokes because of its lesser role in orchestral music, implying that one does not require as much talent to play it. However, many musicians claim that the viola is actually more difficult to play and it rewards more than the [[violin]].

Some famous viola players include [[William Primrose]], [[Paul Hindemith]], [[Yuri Bashmet]], [[Nobuko Imay]], [[John Cale]], and [[Whit Schroder]].

Viola

2007-03-14T03:34:38Z

Bobtexas:

The '''viola''' is one of the four main [[stringed instruments]] that comprise a string [[orchestra]]. It serves as the alto voice of the violin family.

Though similar in shape to a [[violin]], the viola is slightly less smaller and lower in pitch by five notes. The tone of the viola also sets it apart from the [[violin]], being more richer in tone and sound.

The viola is subject to many jokes because of its lesser role in orchestral music, implying that one does not require as much talent to play it. However, many musicians claim that the viola is actually more difficult to play and it rewards more than the [[violin]].

Some famous viola players include [[William Primrose]], [[Paul Hindemith]], [[Yuri Bashmet]], [[Nobuko Imay]], [[John Cale]], and [[Whit Schroder]].

String Instruments

2007-03-14T03:27:39Z

Bobtexas:

[[Violin]]

[[Viola]]

[[Cello]]

[[String Bass]]

[[Guitar]]

[[Banjo]]

[[Harp]]

[[Mandolin]]

[[Ukulele]]

[[Valiha]]

Maya

2007-03-14T03:23:59Z

Bobtexas:

The '''Maya''' (MAH-yuh or MEYE-uh) civilization existed in Southern Mexico and northern Central America between from A.D. 300 to 900. Its population totaled 5-16 million people.

The Maya have been called the "Greeks of the New World" by many historians. The Maya had some knowledge of mathematics, astronomy, ritual ball games for entertainment, and the use of their complex written language. Unlike Europeans at the time, the Maya had developed the concept of zero.

The Maya used a yearly solar calendar that was fairly precise, using 18 months and 20 days per month, with five additional unlucky days at the end, which totals to 365 days. The Maya did not take into account the additional 1/4 day, which we take into account through leap year, because it was not important for them. They additionally had a 260 day ritual calendar which worked in conjuction with the 365 day calendar to create a 52-year cycle. They also used a Long Count calendar which counts the number of days since the creation of the world on August 13, 3113 BC. This calendar returns to zero in 2012, which has caused and Apocalypse scare. However, this stems from a misunderstanding of the calendar, because the calendar is generally abbreviated to 5 places, when in reality there are over 40, so the calendar will continue after this date. The Maya also built stepped temple-pyramids, which had small temples on top.

The Maya were politically formed similarly to the Greek city-states. Each city was politically independent and ruled by a king who had multiple wives. Each king had a ceremonial center containing temple pramids, ball courts and stelae, which are tall stone statues containing a portrait on one side and glyphs on the other. Some cities politically controlled other sites, as Copan controlled Quirigua until a revolt in which the people of Quirigua beheaded the ruler of Copan, Wxaklahun Ub'a K'awiil, or 18 Rabbit. The four major sites are Palenque, [[Tikal]], Calakmul and Copan. Later, Chichen Itza was built, but this site was built after the collapse of many others. For food, the Maya grew maize (corn), squash and beans. Like American Indians the Maya had no coins or paper money, but sometimes traded in cacao (chocolate) beans, shells or other goods. The Maya were the only Precolumbian American civilization who had a system of writing. Their system was based on the use of hieroglyphs.

The Maya religion was polytheistic and the Maya "appeased the gods" by engaging in human sacrifice and autosacrifice. Autosacrifice and the use of hallucinogenic drugs were important to the Maya religion because they allowed the use of visions, which the Maya used to speak to their ancestors. The Maya believed in creation as explained in their religious text named the "Popol Vuh." Wealthy women enjoyed some rights in the society, and in some cases were Queen when there was no male heir. The Maya wrote accordion-fold, bark paper books called codices. There are only 4 known in existence today, which are in museums in Europe, because the Spanish held massive book-burnings upon arriving on the continent because they believed the books to be anti-Christian.

The reason for the decline of the Mayan civilization is not completely understood, but seems to be related to the destruction of the natural environment. The Maya needed trees to make stucco to cover their pyramids, which lead to erosion, which led to insufficient crops, which led the Maya to build more temples, which continued the cycle. Mayan cities were abruptly abandoned in the 800s. After this point, the Maya civilization became small villages, and today 4 million people still speak the Mayan language.

Tikal

2007-03-14T03:22:37Z

Bobtexas:

Located in the Peten region of Guatemala, Tikal was the largest city in the ruins of the [[Maya]]n civilization.

Maya

2007-03-14T03:18:50Z

Bobtexas:

The Maya (MAH-yuh or MEYE-uh) civilization existed in Southern Mexico and northern Central America between from A.D. 300 to 900. Its population totaled 5-16 million people.

The [[Maya]] have been called the "Greeks of the New World" by many historians. The Maya had some knowledge of mathematics, astronomy, ritual ball games for entertainment, and the use of their complex written language. Unlike Europeans at the time, the Maya had developed the concept of zero.

The Maya used a yearly solar calendar that was fairly precise, using 18 months and 20 days per month, with five additional unlucky days at the end, which totals to 365 days. The Maya did not take into account the additional 1/4 day, which we take into account through leap year, because it was not important for them. They additionally had a 260 day ritual calendar which worked in conjuction with the 365 day calendar to create a 52-year cycle. They also used a Long Count calendar which counts the number of days since the creation of the world on August 13, 3113 BC. This calendar returns to zero in 2012, which has caused and Apocalypse scare. However, this stems from a misunderstanding of the calendar, because the calendar is generally abbreviated to 5 places, when in reality there are over 40, so the calendar will continue after this date. The Maya also built stepped temple-pyramids, which had small temples on top.

The Maya were politically formed similarly to the Greek city-states. Each city was politically independent and ruled by a king who had multiple wives. Each king had a ceremonial center containing temple pramids, ball courts and stelae, which are tall stone statues containing a portrait on one side and glyphs on the other. Some cities politically controlled other sites, as Copan controlled Quirigua until a revolt in which the people of Quirigua beheaded the ruler of Copan, Wxaklahun Ub'a K'awiil, or 18 Rabbit. The four major sites are Palenque, [[Tikal]], Calakmul and Copan. Later, Chichen Itza was built, but this site was built after the collapse of many others. For food, the Maya grew maize (corn), squash and beans. Like American Indians the Maya had no coins or paper money, but sometimes traded in cacao (chocolate) beans, shells or other goods. The Maya writing system is presently the only deciphered Mesoamerican script. Their system was based on the use of hieroglyphs, made up of logograms and syllabic glyphs.

The Maya religion was polytheistic and the Maya "appeased the gods" by engaging in human sacrifice and autosacrifice. Autosacrifice and the use of hallucinogenic drugs were important to the Maya religion because they allowed the use of visions, which the Maya used to speak to their ancestors. The Maya believed in creation as explained in their religious text named the "Popol Vuh." Wealthy women enjoyed some rights in the society, and in some cases were Queen when there was no male heir. The Maya wrote accordion-fold, bark paper books called codices. There are only 4 known in existence today, which are in museums in Europe, because the Spanish held massive book-burnings upon arriving on the continent because they believed the books to be anti-Christian.

The reason for the decline of the Mayan civilization is not completely understood, but seems to be related to the destruction of the natural environment. The Maya needed trees to make stucco to cover their pyramids, which lead to erosion, which led to insufficient crops, which led the Maya to build more temples, which continued the cycle. Mayan cities were abruptly abandoned in the 800s. After this point, the Maya civilization became small villages, and today 4 million people still speak the Mayan language.