Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Hollywood values

2008-03-06T03:38:58Z

Cisnon: Tate

This obviously needs more stuff, but I stub'd it so the red link on the main page went away.-[[User:MexMax|MexMax]] 22:58, 22 January 2008 (EST)

:Unlike reality, which clearly has none of these things. Perhaps a random use of the word "glamourization" is in order? [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 00:01, 23 January 2008 (EST)
Barikada, I think that's a central point! It's not only disrespect for morals, it's flagrant glamorization of lack of morals! I'll leave it to you to add it, but good call.-[[User:MexMax|MexMax]] 19:59, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:Thanks. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 20:11, 23 January 2008 (EST)

MexMax - please stop reinserting the unsubstantiated information into the article. Thank you. [[User:Misterlinx|Misterlinx]] 23:23, 24 January 2008 (EST)

MexMax - any and all talk of whether Heath Ledger's death was due to 'Hollywood Values' should be left until AFTER the autopsy and inquest have been published. Mr. Schalfly's previous version of the article was based on a celebrity gossip article, and has been superceded by real information from the police. [[User:Misterlinx|Misterlinx]] 23:40, 24 January 2008 (EST)
:I'm sorry for jumping the gun. That seems truthful, I apologize for reverting without looking closer. I thought we were just doing the same edit war over and over again...[[User:MexMax|MexMax]] 23:46, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::One point: I think the MTV article should be treated as, errr, second best. Is there a better citation? I think we'd rather not cite to MTV unless we have no other chance.[[User:MexMax|MexMax]] 23:47, 24 January 2008 (EST)

==Possible Inclusions==

A few suggestions for the list, off the top of my head: Marilyn Monroe would be a prime (and notorious) example. Chris Farley, who's stated goal was to live and die like Belushi. Janis Joplin. Anna Nicole Smith. Freddie Prinze. Rock Hudson. And depending on how comprehensive you want the list to be, there's an almost endless parade of people who were more famous as part of a group than as individuals, such as Keith Moon or Dennis Wilson.--[[User:RossC|RossC]] 08:16, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:I did a search for Hollywood liberals and came up with [http://www.nationalenquirer.com/ this] website. On the front page I see that the cops are invertviewing Mary Kate Olsen about the suspicious circumstances in Ledger's death, David Copperfield has had two childred out of wedlock, Britney Spears is finally making it to her custody hearing to see if she can stay off drugs long enough to take care of her own kids, and Kiefer Sutherland is being let out of jail after a DUI charge. Hollywood values at their best! (Or should I say worst?) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 10:13, 25 January 2008 (EST)

If an MTV reference is frowned upon, I can hardly see a credible argument for references to The National Enquirer? It's not exactly known for its adherence to fact-based logic, is it? [[User:Misterlinx|Misterlinx]] 12:29, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:Why not? I bet they had articles on every one of the people we have in the article right now. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 11:21, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::There's a reason that tabloids are also known as "Gossip rags." [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 22:36, 26 January 2008 (EST)

The people putting these lists together do not seem to realize that in making a case linking "Hollywood values"--not coherently defined in the article, by the way--to early death or criminality it is not enough simply to cite examples; it needs to be demonstrated that these alleged consequences are ''more likely'' to occur to those who adopt these values than to the general population. [[User:Dadsnagem2|Dadsnagem2]] 11:19, 7 February 2008 (EST)

==Heath Ledger==

How did Hollywood values contribute to his death? [[User:TheGuy|TheGuy]] 04:49, 1 February 2008 (EST)

:It is clear upon reviewing [[User_talk:Fox#Heath_Ledger|this]] and [[Talk:Main_Page#Milking_deaths_for_political_gain|this]] that nobody has justified how Hollywood values contributed to Ledger's death. We all acknowledge that during his life he probably did take drugs and was a selfish individual, however there is no evidence that his overdose on legal prescription drugs was a suicide attempt or reasonably affected by his drug habit. Given that the example is used in the context of death ("Hollywood values are deadly. Some examples include:") then I think it would be prudent to remove Ledger's entry until sufficient evidence connecting Hollywood to his death has been found, otherwise we are just sponsoring gossip. [[User:TheGuy|TheGuy]] 07:22, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Of what significance is it that he was found naked in his bed? [[User:Dadsnagem2|Dadsnagem2]] 11:20, 7 February 2008 (EST)

==So?==

So? What does this article intend to prove? What is its thesis? Is this article intended to somehow connect the unfortunate deaths of some people who got too involved in drugs or alcohol as an indicator that hollywood films are a bad influence?
Is this article supposed to somehow connect these so-called "Hollywood Values" with liberal politics?
Last time I checked, Rush Limbaugh had had an embarrassing addiction to opiate painkillers, George W. Bush had admitted to a cocaine problem, and Mel Gibson had such a drinking problem that he was accusing "the Jews" of all the evils that had ever plagued him. These three men, for example, are CONSERVATIVES. Mel Gibson even functions as part of the industry centered in HOLLYWOOD. Why is good ol' Mel not mentioned in this article?
Is the anti-liberal bias in this article too overwhelming to include even one conservative who's had problems?
Or, as I suspect, is Conservapedia wearing the type of blinders that see any conservative's troubles with drugs or alcohol as a momentary temptation by the liberal side?

If you simply blame everything on your opponents, all the time, then you never have to think it through or acknowledge reality. Seems to be the basic M.O. here.

I, for one, fail to see how Heath Ledger's accidental death from combining the wrong medications (all of which seem to have been prescribed for him) as indicative of a "Hollywood Value" system. Well, I'm sure the response will go like this: "He was NAKED! Surely, nakedness is indicative of SOME evil-doing. After all, LIBERALS SLEEP NAKED! No God-fearing person should sleep sans pajamas!"

I'm disgusted.

[[User:Artiefisk|Artiefisk]] 14:34, 12 February 2008 (EST)

== What about Britney Spears? ==

Britney is a very famous person, and hasn't she been to rehab?
Shouldn't she be mentioned in connection with "Hollywood Values"?
Just a suggestion. [[User:MikeSchwartz|MikeSchwartz]] 20:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Not entirely accurate ==

This article doesn't really give an accurate definition of the phrase, 'Hollywood Values'. I don't really blame you, as it is very difficult, if not impossible, to accurately define it. I also made this point on the 'Liberal Denial' Talk Page, so I'll just copy the relevant part of what I said here:

This phrase means different things to different people. Simply Googling the phrase gives many different meanings. To some, 'Hollywood values' means exactly what Conservapedia says it means. To others, it is summarised as, 'Save a tree, kill a baby. Ban cigarettes, legalize pot. Screw the Iraqi’s, save Darfur. McCarthy is bad, Castro is good. Bush is Hitler, Che is a hero. Save the planet, live in a mansion.' To still others, it means being very egotistical, not very well grounded in reality, and not having a lot of common sense. To yet others, it's all about doing anything at all, as long as you're paid enough. And, by far, that is not a complete list of the various different things this phrase actually means to various different people. [[User:Urushnor|Urushnor]] 14:48, 13 February 2008 (EST)

It should also be noted that the meaning of 'Hollywood Values', according to some, is directly contradicted by what others mean by 'Hollywood Values'. [[User:Urushnor|Urushnor]] 14:50, 13 February 2008 (EST)

== Wikilinks ==

Why are all these actors, singers, etc. wikilinked? Do we plan to have articles on them all? I removed most of them at some point, but I see they were added back. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:26, 16 February 2008 (EST)

== Crime ==
For the crime section, please stick to actual crimes. Maybe there could be another section for offensive comments. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 14:48, 16 February 2008 (EST)
:TBH Roger, I think the linked [[Mel Gibson]] article covers it sufficiently, so - in Gibson's case at least - there's probably no need to mention it in the article at all. But perhaps you're right that there should be a section for those celebs who have demonstrated consistent/repeated immoral behaviour/outbursts but have stopped short of actually breaking the law. [[Image:User Fox.png|10px]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] <small>([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]])</small> 14:59, 16 February 2008 (EST)

==Hollywood==

Why are musicians and athletes included in an article about [[Hollywood]]? [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 14:34, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== What do we do? ==

Even if Hollywood values are in fact a problem, what can we possibly do about it? Make extramarital and premarital sex illegal? Or just force everyone to convert to Christianity? [[User:Blinkadyblink|Blinkadyblink]] 23:18, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Bix Biederbecke ==

Not really a "Hollywood" star - Jazz musicians at the time were more liable to spend their lives in NY (as he did), Chicago, or New Orleans. Lots of jazz musicians, of course, had serious addiction problems, but it's not really intellectually honest to lump in struggling musicians - many of America's greatest jazz artists never made much money - in with wealthy movie stars. Remove? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 21:56, 5 March 2008 (EST)

== Who compiled this silly list? ==

Bix Biederbecke is hardly the only problem here. What about Brian Epstein? What did he have to do with Hollywood? What about Sid Viscious? Hollywood? I hardly think so. Richard Jeni suffered from clinical depression. Do you think that might have had something to do with his suicide? Clara Blandick was in pain and facing blindness. What has her suicide got to do with Hollywodd values? Sharon Tate was murdered by the Manson family. Why is she in the article? The circumstances of Virginia Rappe's death remain unknown and controversial. What has Heath Ledger's accidental overdose got to do with Hollywood or any other values? What has John Bonham got to do with Hollywood? The inquest into the death of Kenneth Williams returned an open verdict as it was not posibble to determine whether his overdose was accidental. In any case he was suffering from declining health and depression at the time.

This is extremely sloppy work. --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 22:33, 5 March 2008 (EST)

== Tate ==

Tate was murdered. How is that her fault? Maybe that part should just mention the Manson Family--a depraved group, indeed. [[User:Cisnon|Cisnon]] 22:38, 5 March 2008 (EST)

Anti-hero

2008-03-06T03:34:31Z

Cisnon: /* Attributes */

An '''anti-hero''' is a literary figure that, while they are the protagonist of a story, they're not essentially [[Hero|heroic]] in that they do not conform to expectations of heroic figures.

==Attributes==
A classical hallmark of a hero may be their predilection toward brave acts, or bravery in general. A famous brave hero in [[Norse]] mythology is [[Beowulf]]. Beowulf slew the monster [[Grendal]] and saved many villagers. This interpretation of a hero is common and fits with most readers' expectations. An anti-hero, by contrast, may be a coward. For example, in the popular children's television program [[Scooby Doo]], Scooby and [[Shaggy]] are cowards--seemingly afraid of their own shadows--yet capable of solving mysteries. Their cowardice is antithetical to most readers, yet readers will identify with them for other reasons (their humanity, possibly.) Without Scooby and Shaggy, mysteries on the program could not be solved and thus their position as co-protagonists is secured.

Anti-heroes will often cause a reader or audience member to feel a conflict about supporting the protagonist's goals. Many of actor [[Clint Eastwood]]'s early roles in [[Sergio Leone]]'s films, as the "character with no name" were focussed on the narrative of an anti-hero. Eastwood's character would sometimes ignore an opportunity to help someone in need if he didn't feel like it, or act in some way that called attention to his character's moral ambiguity.

A well-known example of an anti-hero is the character [[V (Character)|V]] from [[V for Vendetta]].

== See Also ==
The traditional protagonist, the [[hero]].

[[Category: Literary Devices]]

User:Cisnon

2008-03-06T03:26:34Z

Cisnon: New page: Welcome to my page. Please feel free to leave a comment on my talk page. God bless. {{User God Cares}}

Welcome to my page. Please feel free to leave a comment on my talk page. God bless.
{{User God Cares}}

Anti-hero

2008-03-06T03:24:24Z

Cisnon:

An '''anti-hero''' is a literary figure that, while they are the protagonist of a story, they're not essentially [[Hero|heroic]] in that they do not conform to expectations of heroic figures.

==Attributes==
A classical hallmark of a hero may be their predilection toward brave acts, or bravery in general. A famous brave hero in [[Norse]] mythology is [[Beowulf]]. Beowulf slew the monster [[Grendal]] and saved many villagers. This interpretation of a hero is common and fits with most readers' expectations. An anti-hero, by contrast, may be a coward. For example, in the popular children's television program [[Scooby Doo]], Scooby and [[Shaggy]] are cowards--seemingly afraid of their own shadows--yet capable of solving mysteries. Their cowardice is antithetical to most readers, yet readers will identify with them for other reasons (their humanity, possibly.) Without Scooby and Shaggy, mysteries on the program could not be solved and thus their position as co-protagonists is secured.

Anti-heroes will often cause a reader or audience member to feel a conflict about supporting the protagonist's goals. Many of actor [[Clint Eastwood]]'s early roles in [[Sergio Leone]]'s films, as the "character with no name" were focussed on the narrative of an anti-hero. Eastwood's character would sometimes ignore an opportunity to help someone i need if he didn't feel like it, or act in some way that called attention to his character's moral ambiguity.

A well-known example of an anti-hero is the character [[V (Character)|V]] from [[V for Vendetta]].

== See Also ==
The traditional protagonist, the [[hero]]

[[Category: Literary Devices]]

Anti-hero

2008-03-06T03:23:48Z

Cisnon:

An '''anti-hero''' is a literary figure that, while they are the protagonist of a story, they're not essentially [[Hero|heroic]] in that they do not conform to expectations of heroic figures.

--Attributes--
A classical hallmark of a hero may be their predilection toward brave acts, or bravery in general. A famous brave hero in [[Norse]] mythology is [[Beowulf]]. Beowulf slew the monster [[Grendal]] and saved many villagers. This interpretation of a hero is common and fits with most readers' expectations. An anti-hero, by contrast, may be a coward. For example, in the popular children's television program [[Scooby Doo]], Scooby and [[Shaggy]] are cowards--seemingly afraid of their own shadows--yet capable of solving mysteries. Their cowardice is antithetical to most readers, yet readers will identify with them for other reasons (their humanity, possibly.) Without Scooby and Shaggy, mysteries on the program could not be solved and thus their position as co-protagonists is secured.

Anti-heroes will often cause a reader or audience member to feel a conflict about supporting the protagonist's goals. Many of actor [[Clint Eastwood]]'s early roles in [[Sergio Leone]]'s films, as the "character with no name" were focussed on the narrative of an anti-hero. Eastwood's character would sometimes ignore an opportunity to help someone i need if he didn't feel like it, or act in some way that called attention to his character's moral ambiguity.

A well-known example of an anti-hero is the character [[V (Character)|V]] from [[V for Vendetta]].

== See Also ==
The traditional protagonist, the [[hero]]

[[Category: Literary Devices]]

Anti-hero

2008-03-06T03:19:09Z

Cisnon:

An '''anti-hero''' is a literary figure that, while they are the protagonist of a story, they're not essentially [[Hero|heroic]] in that they do not conform to expectations of heroic figures. For example, a classical hallmark of a hero may be their predilection toward brave acts, or bravery in general. A famous brave hero in [[Norse]] mythology is [[Beowulf]]. Beowulf slew the monster [[Grendal]] and saved many villagers. This interpretation of a hero is common and fits with most readers' expectations. An anti-hero, by contrast, may be a coward. For example, in the popular children's television program [[Scooby Doo]], Scooby and [[Shaggy]] are cowards--seemingly afraid of their own shadows--yet capable of solving mysteries. Their cowardice is antithetical to most readers, yet readers will identify with them for other reasons (their humanity, possibly.) Without Scooby and Shaggy, mysteries on the program could not be solved and thus their position as co-protagonists is secured.

A well-known example of an anti-hero is the character [[V (Character)|V]] from [[V for Vendetta]].

== See Also ==
The traditional protagonist, the [[hero]]

[[Category: Literary Devices]]

Prison

2008-03-06T03:11:50Z

Cisnon:

A '''prison''' is a correctional institution used to detain persons who are in the lawful custody of the [[government]] (either because they have been accused of a crime and they are trial or because they have been convicted of a crime and they are serving a sentence). In the [[United States]], 2.2 million people are incarcerated, and over the course of a year, many millions spend time in prison or jail. Prisons create jobs - over 750,000 men and women work in correctional facilities. Despite correctional methods used in these institutions, 67 percent of former prisoners will be rearrested and 52 percent will be re-incarcerated. <ref>[http://www.prisoncommission.org/ Commission on Safety and Abuse in America's Prisons]</ref> The term for this is [[recidivism]], meaning a criminal who has committed a crime, is released, then goes on to commit subsequent crimes.

==References==
<references/>

==See Also==
*[[Jail]]

[[Category:Law]]
[[Category:Sociology]]