[[File:Sethrich-e1494948876256.jpg|right|300px|thumb]]
'''Seth Conrad Rich''' (January 3, 1989 – July 10, 2016) of the DNC, was shot in the Bloomingdale neighborhood of Washington, D.C. on July 10, 2016, at 4:19:43. He was transported to a hospital and pronounced dead at 5:57 AM after emergency surgery.<ref>Stephen Loiaconi, "WikiLeaks reward offer in DNC staffer's murder raises questions,''ABC6'', August 10, 2016. http://abc6onyourside.com/news/nation-world/wikileaks-reward-offer-in-dnc-staffers-murder-raises-questions</ref>

Four days after the appointment of [[Robert Mueller]] as Special Counsel to investigate [[President Trump]], [[ABC News]] reported the [[fake news]] story that the [[FBI]] did not investigate the murder of Seth Rich;<ref>https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fbi-involved-seth-rich-case-officials/story?id=47565705</ref> however on April 23, 2021 the FBI released 68 pages of over 1,000 documents in accordance with a court order to comply with a [[Freedom of Information Act]] request. The heavily redacted documents pertain more to the [[Mueller team]] than Rich. Additionally, the FBI has been in possession of Seth Rich's laptop since the murder occurred.<ref>https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/fbi-releases-documents-on-investigation-into-death-of-democrat-national-committee-worker-seth-rich_3789686.html</ref> As of 2019, the Mueller team itself came under investigation by U.S. Attorney and Special Counsel [[John Durham]] for [[criminal]] activity.<ref>https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/lawyers-rip-doj-investigation-of-mueller-probe-origins-obviously-corrupt-and-what-the-framers-feared/</ref>
[[Category:Unsolved crimes]]

==Personal background==
DNC worker Seth Rich was born on January 3, 1989, to parents Joel and Mary Rich,<ref>CBS affiliate KMTV, ''Action 3 News Live at 10'', "Parents of Seth Rich saddened by his death," YouTube video of parents (upload Jul 11, 2016), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vLAeTN960Q</ref> and [[murder]]ed 27 years later on Sunday, July 10, 2016, around 4:19 AM in the Bloomingdale neighborhood near his home, shot at 2134 Flagler Pl NW, Washington DC 20001<ref>''SCRIBD'', "Event 16113797 Public Incident Packet (1)",
uploaded by Jessica McBride https://www.scribd.com/document/320691960/Event-16113797-Public-Incident-Packet-1</ref> at the Southwest corner of Flagler and W Street <ref>Pat Collins and Andrea Swalec, "27-Year-Old DNC Staffer Seth Rich Shot, Killed in Northwest DC," NBC Washington (July 11, 2016), http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Man-Shot-Killed-in-Northwest-DC-386316391.html</ref> in Northwest [[Washington DC]]<ref>Peter Hermann; "Parents, D.C. police chief appeal for help in killing of DNC staffer in Bloomingdale" ''The Washington Post'' (August 4, [2016]) https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/parents-dc-police-chief-appeal-for-help-in-killing-of-dnc-staffer-in-bloomingdale/2016/08/04/e65b8c94-5a69-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html</ref> across from the Flagler Market which faces W Street.<ref>Google Maps</ref> It has been reported that the police were on the scene by 4:20 AM.<ref>''Independent, Infact'', "Who is Seth Rich -- and Was His Death Connected to Hillary Clinton", May 16, 2017. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh2n0yDtbs4</ref> According to the police report, Rich was approached by two individuals.<ref>Rod Wheeler, et al., "Walkthrough of crime scene where DNC staffer was murdered," ''Fox & Friends'', Fox News (Aug. 11, 2016) https://video.foxnews.com/v/5079544790001/walkthrough-of-crime-scene-where-dnc-staffer-was-murdered/?#sp=show-clips</ref> According to Mary Rich, near the time of the murder, he had been engaged in conversation on the phone with his girlfriend when she heard some noise coming from Rich's phone. Rich told his girlfriend not to worry about it. Mary Rich concluded that "there had been a struggle" and that his hands, face, and knees were bruised.<ref>Collins and Swalec, http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Man-Shot-Killed-in-Northwest-DC-386316391.html</ref> Reportedly, detectives said that Seth had bruises on his face and knuckles.<ref>Joseph Morton, "D.C. police, family of slain DNC staffer Seth Rich urge anyone with information about murder to come forward," ''Omaha World-Herald'' (Aug 5, 2016) http://www.omaha.com/news/crime/d-c-police-family-of-slain-dnc-staffer-seth-rich/article_dc98d83c-c674-5136-b681-b20d930fcb0c.html</ref> Joel Rich reported that Seth's watchband was torn.<ref>Louise Boyle,"Murdered DNC staffer was about to join Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, reveals father," ''Daily Mail .com'' (August 24, 2016) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3741754/Father-murdered-DNC-staffer-reveals-son-join-Hillary-Clinton-presidential-campaign-punching-hole-ugly-rumor-Wikileaks-source.html?login#readerCommentsCommand-message-field</ref> The particular intersection where Rich was killed has been rated on a Crime Risk scale (ranging on a spectrum from red as less safe to green as safer) as a "yellow" area, a little to the right of center, on the safer side of the scale.<ref>"Real Estate in Bloomingdale > Crimes," ''Trulia'' [(c. July–August, 2016)] http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Bloomingdale-Washington/1798/crime/</ref> [[Fox News]] has provided a video of a "Walk Through the Crime Scene."<ref>Wheeler, et al., https://video.foxnews.com/v/5079544790001/walkthrough-of-crime-scene-where-dnc-staffer-was-murdered/?#sp=show-clips</ref>

Rich was survived by an older brother named Aaron.<ref>Joseph Morton, "27-year-old Creighton grad, DNC staffer shot dead in D.C. wanted 'to try to save the world'," ''Omaha World-Herald'' (July 13, 2016) http://www.omaha.com/news/crime/year-old-creighton-grad-dnc-staffer-shot-dead-in-d/article_023644eb-87b4-5c36-be7b-3edf96d02ebe.html</ref> Rich had been raised in Omaha, Nebraska, belonging to a family said to be "a pillar of the [[Jewish]] community in Omaha." His father had been sometime president of the Beth El Synagogue, of which his grandfather had been a founding member.<ref>
Ari Feldman, "National Committee Staffer Shot Dead on Own Washington D.C. Block," ''Forward'' (July 11, 2016) http://forward.com/news/344698/promising-jewish-democratic-national-committee-staffer-shot-dead-on-own-was/</ref> He had been a student at the Friedel Jewish Academy and Central High School. Later while a student at Creighton University, he had worked with the US Census Bureau as well as the Nebraska Democratic Party, interning for Senator [[Ben Nelson]]. After graduating from Creighton in 2011,<ref>Obits: "Rich, Seth C." ''Omaha World-Herald'' (July 13, 2016) http://www.omaha.com/obits/rich-seth-c/article_957ece9b-67c3-53d6-b88b-0c78d813b299.html</ref> Rich had obtained employment by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner (a polling company) and relocated to Washington, DC. In Washington DC, Rich found employment for two years with the [[Democratic National Committee]] (DNC), where he developed a computer program that let people find their polling places by entering their names. By the time that he died, Rich had become Deputy Director of Data-for-Voter Protection/Expansion at the DNC.<ref>Stan Green, "Assange: Was Seth Rich Shot by the DNC for releasing information to Wikileaks?" ''Santa Monica Observer'' (August 26, 2016) http://www.smobserved.com/story/2016/08/26/news/assange-was-seth-rich-shot-by-the-dnc-for-releasing-information-to-wikileaks/1840.html</ref>

==Murdered in DC==
:''Main article: [[United States presidential election, 2016]]''<ref>op. cit.</ref>
There in Washington DC, within about one minute after speaking on his cell phone with his sometime girlfriend, Kelsey Mulka, Seth Rich was shot.<ref>Louise Boyle, https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3741754/Father-murdered-DNC-staffer-reveals-son-join-Hillary-Clinton-presidential-campaign-punching-hole-ugly-rumor-Wikileaks-source.html?login#readerCommentsCommand-message-field</ref> "He was talking on the phone with his girlfriend when she heard noise on Rich's end of the line, Mary Rich said. Her son told his girlfriend not to worry about it."<ref>Pat Collins and Andrea Swalec, "27-Year-Old DNC Staffer Seth Rich Shot, Killed in Northwest DC", ''4NBCWashington'' (no date; probably July 11, 2016) http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Man-Shot-Killed-in-Northwest-DC-386316391.html</ref> ''The Washington Post'' published a record of Seth's cell phone calls that night (including early July 10, 2017):

::'''Before Closing Time at Lou's Bar: Seth made 3 calls:'''
:::1) & 2) to Joel Rich (unanswered).
:::3) to a friend lasting 1 minute.
::'''At Closing Time at Lou's Bar:'''
:::4) 1:21-1:33 Another friend called Seth, 12 minute call.
::'''After Closing Time'''
:::5) 2:05-3:34 Seth called Kelsey Mulka, his girlfriend, who was in Michigan. They conversed for 89 minutes. Then the call was disconnected.
:::6) 3:36-4:19 (approx) Seth called Kelsey again, and they conversed for 43 minutes.
:::At about 4:19 a.m., Rich told Kelsey that he was nearly home and said, 'I gotta go,' according to Joel Rich (Seth's father), who has talked with Kelsey . . . ."<ref>Manuel Roig-Franzia, "Seth Rich wasn’t just another D.C. murder victim. He was a meme in the weirdest presidential election of our times", The Washington Post (January 18, 2016) https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/seth-rich-wasnt-just-another-dc-murder-victim-he-was-a-meme-in-the-weirdest-presidential-election-of-our-times/2017/01/18/ee8e27f8-dcc0-11e6-918c-99ede3c8cafa_story.html?utm_term=.4a76a6cbeb58</ref>

This time log indicates that immediately or almost immediately after ending that call, he was in a fight, then quickly shot from behind, all possibly in less than 1 minute after call ended; then in about 1 minute after the shots police were on scene at 4:20.<ref>Daniel Halper, "Julian Assange suggests DNC staffer was shot dead for being a 'source'," ''New York Post'' (August 10, 2016) http://nypost.com/2016/08/10/julian-assange-suggests-dnc-staffer-was-shot-dead-for-being-a-source/</ref> Although there was a report that Seth had been shot twice in the ''head'' ,<ref>Nick Allen, "WikiLeaks offers $20,000 reward over murder of Democrat staffer Seth Rich," ''The Telegraph'' (August 10, 2016) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/10/wikileaks-offers-20000-reward-over-murder-of-democrat-staffer-se/</ref> he was evidently shot in the torso.<ref>Alana Goodman In Washington, Dc, ''Dailymail.com'' "EXCLUSIVE: The missing hours of murdered DNC staffer"(August 17, 2016) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3743880/Alone-bar-guzzling-beer-depressed-trouble-girlfriend-newly-hired-Clinton-campaign-staffer-Seth-Rich-refused-ride-home-staggered-shocking-death.html#ixzz4jerxCMNf</ref> It has been theorized that the motive was a robbery, but neither his wallet nor his watch were taken, causing doubt that the motive was robbery.<ref>Obituaries, "Seth Conrad Rich," ''The Jewish Press'' (posted July 20, 2016; issue July 22, 2016) http://www.jewishomaha.org/jewish-press/2016/seth-conrad-rich/; cf. "Kelsey Mulka," Friends page, Facebook (August, 2016) https://www.facebook.com/kmulka1/friends?pnref=lhc; "Kelsey Mulka," LinkedIn (August, 2016) https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelseymulka; Rachel Kurzius, "'We Need Your Help': Family Of Murdered DNC Staffer Pleas At Crime Scene," ''Dcist'' (August 5, 2016) http://dcist.com/2016/08/we_need_your_help_parents_of_murder.php; cf. Prince of Space, "To: TigerClaws," ''Freerepublic'' (August 12, 2016) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3458886/posts?page=97 [not a reliable source]; cf. modus_owens, [untitled comment], ''DNCLEAKS'' (August 12, 2016) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DNCleaks/comments/4w55x8/was_seth_conrad_rich_murdered_for_exposing/] [not a reliable source].</ref> The (tabloid style) ''Daily Mail Online'' says that the coroner's office confirmed the cause of death as gunshots to the torso.<ref>Goodman, "EXCLUSIVE: The missing hours of murdered DNC staffer."</ref> Fox 5 reports that a witness near the scene, Mark Mueller, heard the shots and went to the scene. Mueller says, "He was conscious, & I saw him moving his hand, and uh then they carried him past me to the ambulance. I had to look at him to see if he was anybody that we knew from the neighborhood".<ref>Fox 5 News, displayed on YouTube Channel CommonSense Avenger,"CSA #63 Seth Rich Timeline or 'Where is His Laptop' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eobj9qQc-S8&t=54s</ref> Consistent with Mueller, Seth's mother reports that he was alive and talking when the police arrived (about a minute later). This report with the lack of a head shot (and evidence of a fight), requires explanation if one entertains the hypothesis of a political assassination.

''The Daily Mail'' also claims that prior to his death Rich had been at Lou's City Bar until around 1:45 AM where he was inebriated, but refused the offer of a ride home.<ref>Alana Goodman, "The missing hours of murdered DNC staffer," ''Daily Mail .com''
(August 17, 2016)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3743880/Alone-bar-guzzling-beer-depressed-trouble-girlfriend-newly-hired-Clinton-campaign-staffer-Seth-Rich-refused-ride-home-staggered-shocking-death.html</ref> It is a walk of about 1.7 miles from Lou's City Bar to the corner where Rich was shot at about 4:19 AM with Rich's activities between 1:45 and 4:19 still under investigation as of August 18, 2016.<ref>[https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Lou's+City+Bar,+1400+Irving+St+NW,+Washington,+DC+20010/W+Street+Northwest+%26+Flagler+Place+Northwest,+Washington,+DC+20001/@38.9228817,-77.0297126,15z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x89b7c820291dea95:0xbe9e62cf68f85237!2m2!1d-77.0337839!2d38.9284711!1m5!1m1!1s0x89b7b7fed4b66c0d:0x78ae7cf6246fbdcc!2m2!1d-77.013541!2d38.919177 Google Maps (August, 2016)]</ref> In contrast with the inebriation claims of the Daily Mail, witnesses at Lou's City Bar said that Rich had a couple drinks, which would likely have lost much of their effect in two hours. The general manager of Lou's bar stated that Rich was a "couple-of beers kind of guy," and that "despondent and drunk" was "just not Seth. I never saw him drunk or even tipsy."<ref>Jeff Stein, "Seth Rich: inside the killing of the DNC staffer," ''Newsweek'' (August 20, 2016) http://www.newsweek.com/seth-rich-murder-dnc-hack-julian-assange-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-492084</ref>

The walk home time has been estimated at 30 minutes, but whether or not Rich went to a second bar before heading towards home (2113 First St NW, DC 20001), remains to be shown. The Washington Post claims, ". . . a person who spoke to him that night and agreed to be interviewed on the condition of anonymity said he did not go [to the Wonderland Ballroom bar] . . . ."<ref>Manuel Roig-Franzia, "Seth Rich wasn’t just another D.C. murder victim. He was a meme in the weirdest presidential election of our times", The Washington Post (January 18, 2016) https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/seth-rich-wasnt-just-another-dc-murder-victim-he-was-a-meme-in-the-weirdest-presidential-election-of-our-times/2017/01/18/ee8e27f8-dcc0-11e6-918c-99ede3c8cafa_story.html?utm_term=.4a76a6cbeb58</ref> Fox News has presented a video of Lou's bar and the neighborhood of that bar, also of the nearby Wonderland Ballroom bar, and what the possible walk-for-home route looks like.<ref>Marina Marraco, "What happened during final hours slain DNC employee Seth Rich was alive?" Fox 5 (August 18, 2016) http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/193631067-story</ref> (Sales and service of liquor Saturday-Sunday is limited to no later than 3 AM in Washington DC, by law.<ref>District of Columbia Official Code Title 25, Alcoholic Beverage Regulation Administration; and District of Columbia Municipal Regulations Title 23; Alcoholic Beverages (Revised March, 2016) [http://abra.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/abra/publication/attachments/DCOfficialCodeTitle%2025DCMRTitle23_0.pdf PDF]</ref> The Wonderland Ballroom bar closed at 3 AM early Sunday morning if it was following the schedule posted on internet on August 21, 2016.)<ref>The Wonderland Bar, "Business Hours," http://www.thewonderlandballroom.com/hours-and-location/</ref>

The police were aided in finding the location of the shooting by an auditory system in Washington DC called ShotSpotter.<ref>Stan Green, "Assange: Was Seth Rich Shot by the DNC for releasing information to Wikileaks?" ''Santa Monica Observer'' (August 26, 2016) http://www.smobserved.com/story/2016/08/26/news/assange-was-seth-rich-shot-by-the-dnc-for-releasing-information-to-wikileaks/1840.html</ref> Rich was yet conscious and breathing when the police found him. World News Daily reported that Vito Maggiolo (EMS public information officer) stated that Seth was transported to a hospital in Priority 1 condition (critical) in an ambulance ride of 6 minutes and 40 seconds.<ref>Alicia Powe, "1st Responders: Seth Rich was 'Critical' in Our Ambulance". WorldNewsDaily.com (June 7, 2017), https://www.wnd.com/2017/06/1st-responders-seth-rich-was-critical-in-our-ambulance/</ref> But after emergency surgery, he was pronounced dead at 5:57 AM.<ref>Stephen Loiaconi, "WikiLeaks reward offer in DNC staffer's murder raises questions,ABC6, August 10, 2016. http://abc6onyourside.com/news/nation-world/wikileaks-reward-offer-in-dnc-staffers-murder-raises-questions; Adam Shrier, "Democratic National Committee staffer killed in Washington, D.C. shooting," ''New York Daily News'' (July 11, 2016) http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/washington-dnc-staffer-seth-conrad-rich-shot-killed-article-1.2707538</ref> It has been reported that Rich's "favorite spot" was Lou's City Bar, where the bar put a plaque at his usual seat, either temporarily or permanently.<ref>Louise Boyle, "Murdered DNC staffer was about to join Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, reveals father," ''Daily Mail .com'' (August 16, 2016) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3741754/Father-murdered-DNC-staffer-reveals-son-join-Hillary-Clinton-presidential-campaign-punching-hole-ugly-rumor-Wikileaks-source.html?login#readerCommentsCommand-message-field; Scott Roberts, " At Lou's City Bar last night: celebrating Seth Rich's life well-lived," Bloomingdale (August 4, 2016) http://bloomingdaleneighborhood.blogspot.com/2016/08/at-lous-city-bar-celebrating-seth-richs.html.</ref>

On July 22 three days before the presidential [[Democrat Convention]], [[WikiLeaks]] released a multitude of emails from "the top of" the Democratic National Committee (DNC),<ref>Tom Hamburger and Karen Tumulty, "WikiLeaks releases thousands of documents about Clinton and internal deliberations," ''[[The Washington Post]]'' (July 22, [2016]) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/22/on-eve-of-democratic-convention-wikileaks-releases-thousands-of-documents-about-clinton-the-campaign-and-internal-deliberations/</ref> emails which indicated that members of the DNC had given favorable treatment to [[Hillary Clinton]] over [[Bernie Sanders]] in the Democratic [[2016 U.S. presidential election#Democratic candidates|presidential primary of 2016]]. After the Democratic primary, the leader of Wikileaks was interviewed by a Dutch television man; in that interview [[Julian Assange]] spoke about the dangers to their sources (whistle-blowers) who give information to WikiLeaks.

==Rewards for information on the murder==

At about the same time, Assange offered a reward of $20,000 for information concerning the murder of Seth Rich. But Assange did not directly assert that Seth Rich was the source of the email [[leak]]s, though he gave three very slight nods after being asked about Rich as the source. This $20,000 reward followed the reward of $25,000 offered by the Washington DC police.<ref>Obituaries, "Seth Conrad Rich," The Jewish Press (posted July 20, 2016; issue July 22, 2016) http://www.jewishomaha.org/jewish-press/2016/seth-conrad-rich/; cf. "Kelsey Mulka," Friends page, Facebook (August, 2016) https://www.facebook.com/kmulka1/friends?pnref=lhc; Hannah Parry and Wills Robinson, "Parents of slain DNC staffer Seth Rich ask for help three weeks after he was gunned down on D.C. street" ''Daily Mail .com'' (August 4–5, 2016) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3724508/Parents-slain-DNC-staffer-Seth-Rich-ask-help-three-weeks-slain-DC-street.html; Chris Harris, "Friends of Slain DNC Staffer Seth Rich Remember Him as 'Honest' and 'Self-Sacrificing," People (July 13, 2016) http://www.people.com/article/friends-remember-dnc-staffer-seth-rich; https://abcnews.go.com/US/dnc-staffer-killed-wanted-make-difference-family/story?id=40551800; Nick Allen, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/10/wikileaks-offers-20000-reward-over-murder-of-democrat-staffer-se/; "Assange implies murdered DNC staffer was WikiLeaks' source" ''Fox News'' (August 10, 2016) https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/08/10/assange-implies-murdered-dnc-staffer-was-wikileaks-source.html.</ref> These offers were followed in September, 2016, by a reward offer of $100,000 by [[Republican]] lobbyist Jack Burkman.
<ref>fox5dc.com staff. "Republican lobbyist offers $100K reward in murder of Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich" (SEP 14 2016) http://www.fox5dc.com/news/205324045-story; PR News Channel (September 14, 2016) http://www.prnewschannel.com/2016/09/14/gop-lobbyist-offers-100000-reward-in-dnc-staffers-death/</ref>

Another reward was apparently offered back in August, 2016, at a site called WeSearchR which claimed to be collecting reward money.<ref>WeSearchr (August, 2016) https://www.wesearchr.com/contact</ref> As of 7 PM, August 18, 2016, WeSearchR claimed to have raised $20,040 to add to the police and Wikileaks reward. $20,000 of that sum was credited to Mike Cernovich.<ref>"Who Murdered 27-Year-Old DNC Staffer Seth Rich?" WeSearchr (August, 2016) https://www.wesearchr.com/bounties/who-murdered-27-year-old-dnc-staffer-seth-rich</ref> However, the WeSearchR site had a disclaimer which may indicate that this reward collection was a joke or a scam.

==Statements by Assange==

Certain statements by Assange open the possibility that Seth Rich was a source (or a believed source) for Wikileaks.

1) "It’s, I think, interesting and acceptable to speculate who our sources are. But if we’re talking about the DNC, there’s lots of consultants that have access, lots of programmers."<ref>Charisse Van Horn, "Was Seth Rich Assassinated" ''Inquisitor'' (August 10, 2016) http://www.inquisitr.com/3400412/was-seth-rich-assassinated-wikileaks-posts-reward-in-murder-case-some-speculate-rich-was-dnc-leaker/#mJIikLwBByFOMhuv.99</ref>

2) Julian Assange was interviewed for the Dutch television program Nieuwsuur by Twan Huys. Selected statements, (excerpts from a longer interview) in chronological order (omitting vocal pauses) are quoted below. A = Julian Assange; H = Twan Huys.

A: "We have a lot of material related to the . . . DNC."
A: "We never discuss sources ruling them out, ruling them in, . . . ."

H: " . . . , does it matter that the source of these emails . . . is most likely from . . . , Russia . . . ?"
A: "Well, that's false."

A: “Whistleblowers go to significant efforts to get us material and often very significant risks. As a 27-year-old, works for the DNC, was shot in the back, murdered just a few weeks ago for unknown reasons as he was walking down the street in Washington, . . . .”

H: “That was just a robbery, I believe. Wasn’t it?”
A: “No." "There’s no finding … I’m suggesting that our sources take risks.”

H: "But was he one of your sources then?"
A: "We don't comment on who our sources are."<ref>Cf. ‪Twitter, @AbrahamLincthun, replying to ‪‪@Real_Assange "It is easy to account 4 a couple of intended Robbers not taking anything & running. But '''ur nods seem significant'''" ‪#SethRich 9:51 PM - 1 Jul 2017 1 '''Like [by Assange]''' -- Assange had made 3 slight nods during interview which seemed to confirm Seth Rich as Wikileaks source. [emphasis editor]</ref>

H: “Then why make the suggestion about a young guy being shot in the streets of Washington?”
A: “Because we have to understand how high the stakes are in the [[United States]], and that our sources face serious risks. That’s why they come to us. So we can protect their anonymity.”

H: ". . . to suggest a murder, that's basically what you are doing."
A: ". . . others have suggested that. We are investigating . . . with Seth Rich. . . . there's not a conclusion yet."
A: "We are concerned about it, and more importantly, a variety of WikiLeaks sources are concerned when that kind of thing happens."

Soon after that interview on [[Twitter]] Wikileaks posted "a $20,000 reward for information leading to conviction for the murder of DNC staffer Seth Rich."<ref>''@Wikileaks'', Twitter, (August 9, 2016) ''Nieuwsuur'' (August 9, [2016]) http://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/2124316-assange-belooft-nieuwe-onthullingen-over-clinton.html?title=assange-belooft-nieuwe-onthullingen-over-clinton</ref>

3) If the theory that it was a Russian hack which was the source the Wikileaks DNA emails, were confirmed, that might be used as an argument to discount Seth Rich as a Wikileaks source. However, in addition to Assange's direct denial of a [[Russia]]n source, Assange argued against the Russian hack theory saying:

: "Russia has been brought up . . . ." "There are claims that in the metadata (a digital trail of any changes made to a file) someone’s done a document to PDF conversion, and . . . , in some cases the language of the computer that was used for that conversion was Russian. "So . . . [that would be] circumstantial evidence that some Russian was involved or someone who wanted to make it look like a Russian was involved." "That’s not the case for the material that we released."<ref>"Seth Rich murder: Julian Assange suggests link to DNC emails leak, WikiLeaks offers reward for information about staffer's death," ''Belfast Telegraph'' (August 10, 2016) http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/seth-rich-murder-julian-assange-suggests-link-to-dnc-emails-leak-wikileaks-offers-reward-for-information-about-staffers-death-34955137.html -- This source may have a video of the neighborhood in which Rich was killed.</ref>

==Wikipedia bias==

As of August 15, 2016, the article in En.[[wikipedia]] ("Murder of Seth Rich") had a ''motion to delete'' template on it, delete on grounds of not being notable, although at one point it was getting 1500 daily views. It was so allegedly unnotable that a strong debate was generated there on the talk page and on the Delete Articles section, where editors essentially "voted" to Keep vs. Delete, allegedly on the grounds of non-notability.<ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Murder_of_Seth_Rich WP:AFD/Murder of Seth Rich]</ref> Among the arguments for deleting the article there was a repetitious reference to the talking point "conspiracy theory," though the article said nothing at all about a conspiracy theory. Also, as of August 17, 2016, the Wiki editor who started this article, was officially blocked by an administrator. His talk page said: "You have been blocked indefinitely from editing because it appears that you are not here to build an encyclopedia."<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:TradingJihadist</ref> As of August 21, 2016, the motion to delete was denied on grounds of no consensus, although a derogatory false comment was attached attacking some of those who argued in favor of "Keep." Soon after, the article was summarily locked down until August 27, 2016, and a request for mediation was filed.

Despite the fact that the article was not deleted, several details about the murder were deleted from the article by the same editors who advocated for deletion,<ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Murder_of_Seth_Rich#List_of_excluded_items WP:AFD/Talk:Murder of Seth Rich]</ref> leaving the article a rather short stub article. And as of August 24, 2016, there was a continuing debate and vote on the talk page of that article as to
"Should this article mention the fact that WikiLeaks offered $20,000 in reward money for providing information regarding the perpetrator of this crime?" along with this template warning: "{{Ds/talk notice|blp}}," which warned: "This article is subject to discretionary sanctions."

On September 18, 2016, less than a month after the previous motion to delete failed, a second motion to delete was started by the same editors who tried to delete it the first time, but once again, on October 4, the motion to delete was denied, as there was "no consensus."<ref>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Murder_of_Seth_Rich_(2nd_nomination) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Murder of Seth Rich (2nd nomination)]</ref>

==Later reports==
In May 2017, [[Fox News Channel]] reported that the FBI knew Seth Rich had made contact with WikiLeaks.<ref>Zimmerman, Malia (May 16, 2017). [https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/16/seth-rich-slain-dnc-staffer-had-contact-with-wikileaks-say-multiple-sources.html Seth Rich, slain DNC staffer, had contact with WikiLeaks, say multiple sources]. ''Fox News''. Retrieved May 16, 2017.</ref> The liberal mainstream media have chosen not to cover this report, which was uncovered by Fox News.<ref>Kew, Ben (May 16, 2017). [https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/05/16/silence-from-establishment-media-over-seth-rich-wikileaks-report/ Silence from Establishment Media over Seth Rich WikiLeaks Report]. ''Breitbart News''. Retrieved May 16, 2017.</ref> The White House declined to comment on the revelations.<ref>Spiering, Charlie (May 16, 2017). [https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/16/white-house-no-comment-on-ongoing-seth-rich-investigation/ White House: No Comment on Ongoing Seth Rich Investigation]. ''Breitbart News''. Retrieved May 16, 2017.</ref> Rich's family and the D.C. police denied confirmation of reports.<ref>Noble, Andrea (May 16, 2017). [https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/16/seth-richs-family-police-deny-reports-linking-slai/ Family, police deny reports linking slain DNC staffer to WikiLeaks]. ''The Washington Times''. Retrieved May 16, 2017.</ref> Several questions, according to some news outlets, remained unanswered up to that time.<ref>Nash, Charlie (May 16, 2017). [https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/05/16/4-unanswered-questions-surrounding-murdered-dnc-staffer-seth-rich/ 4 Unanswered Questions Surrounding Murdered DNC Staffer Seth Rich]. ''Breitbart News''. Retrieved May 16, 2017.</ref> Fox News retracted the report several days later.<ref>[https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/23/statement-on-coverage-seth-rich-murder-investigation.html Statement on coverage of Seth Rich murder investigation]. ''Fox News''. May 23, 2017. Retrieved May 23, 2017.</ref> Conservative commentator on Fox News, [[Sean Hannity]], did not retract anything he stated, noting the fact that liberals and Democrats themselves widely accepted and circulated [[Conspiracy theory|conspiracy theories]], most notably those [[Russian collusion hoax|regarding alleged Russian interference]] in the [[United States presidential election, 2016|2016 presidential election]].<ref>Concha, Joe (May 23, 2017). [https://thehill.com/homenews/media/334825-hannity-on-seth-rich-coverage-i-retracted-nothing Hannity on Seth Rich coverage: ‘I retracted nothing’]. ''The Hill''. Retrieved May 23, 2017.</ref> Because of Hannity's decision, liberal advertisers chose to pressure and bully him by pulling out their ads from his show.<ref>Kew, Ben (May 24, 2017). [https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/05/24/advertisers-bow-to-activist-left-begin-pulling-ads-from-hannity/ Advertisers Bow to Activist Left, Begin Pulling Ads from Hannity]. ''Breitbart News''. Retrieved May 24, 2017.</ref>

==See also==
*[[Debbie Wasserman Schultz]]
*[[Awan investigation]]
*[[Obamagate timeline]]
*[[Obamagate timeline 2009-2015]]
*[[Biden-Ukraine scandal]]
*[[Crowdstrike]]
*[[Michael Sussmann]]
*[[Barack Obama Controversies]]
*[[Obama's second term agenda]]
*[[Barack Hussein Obama's unlawful acts]]

==References==
<references/>

==External links==
*[https://www.robbinyoung.info/test-2 Twitter DM's Between @Guccifer_2 & @Robbin_Young]
*[https://voat.co/v/SethRich Seth Rich subverse on Voat.co]
*[https://www.mintpressnews.com/beyond-the-dnc-leaks-hacks-and-treason/247674/ George Eliason: Beyond the DNC - Leaks, Hacks, and Treason], August 14, 2018.
*[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20690299-fbi-documents-on-seth-rich Partial FOIA declassified FBI documents related to the murder of Seth Rich]. 68 pages.
{{Deep State}}
[[Category:2016 Presidential Election]]
[[Category:Democratic Party]]
[[Category:Obama Presidency]][[Category:Obama Scandals]]
[[Category:Hillary Clinton]]
[[Category:Obama Administration]][[Category:Victims of the liberal agenda]]

[[Category:Heroes]]
[[Category:United States Political Scandals]]
[[Category:2010s]]
[[Category:Corruption]]
[[Category:Police State]]

D.B. Cooper

2023-08-13T00:14:45Z

Editor123:

D.B. Cooper

2023-08-13T00:13:31Z

Editor123:

'''D. B. Cooper''' is the name used to refer to a famous [[airplane]] [[hijacker]] who, after receiving a ransom payout of $200,000, leapt from the back of a [[Boeing 727]] as it was flying over the [[Pacific Northwest]]. No conclusive evidence has ever surfaced regarding Cooper's whereabouts, and several theories offer competing explanations of what happened after his famed jump. The only clues to have turned up in the case are ambiguous: around $5,000 that washed up on the banks of the [[Columbia River]], and part of a sign believed to be from the rear stairway of the plane from which Cooper jumped. The nature of Cooper's escape and the uncertainty of his fate continue to intrigue people to this day.

==The Hijacking==

At 16:35 on [[Thanksgiving]] Eve, [[November 24]], [[1971]] in the [[United States]], a man travelling under the name '''Dan Cooper''' hijacked a [[Northwest Orient Airlines]] [[Boeing 727|Boeing 727-051]], flight 305, flying from [[Portland International Airport]] ([[IATA airport code|PDX]]) in [[Portland, Oregon]], with the threat of a bomb (he had a briefcase containing wires and "red sticks"). He was dressed in a brown suit and wearing sunglasses.

When the plane landed at [[Seattle-Tacoma International Airport]] near [[Seattle, Washington]] at 5:45 PM, its intended destination, he released the passengers in exchange for $200,000 and four [[parachute]]s. At 7:45 he had the flight crew take the plane back into the air, ordering them to fly towards [[Mexico]] at low speed and altitude with the landing gear down and 15 degrees of flap. At some point during the journey he jumped out of the rear stairway of the airplane with the money and parachutes. The [[FBI]] believed his descent was at 20:11 over southwest [[Washington]], because the rear stairway "bumped" at that time. His descent went unnoticed by the [[United States Air Force]] [[F-106]] jet fighters tracking the airliner.

Despite an eighteen-day search of the projected landing zone, no trace of the man or his parachute was ever found, and it remains unknown whether he survived the escape. On [[February 13]], [[1980]], $5,800 (in bundles of $20 bills) of the ransom money was found by a family on a picnic five miles northwest of [[Vancouver, Washington]] on the banks of the Columbia River.

The FBI questioned and then released a man by the name of Daniel B. Cooper, who was never considered a significant suspect. Due to a miscommunication with the media, however, the initials "D. B." became firmly associated with the hijacker and this is how he is now known.

Following three similar (but less successful) hijackings in [[1972]], the [[Federal Aviation Administration]] required that all Boeing 727 aircraft be fitted with a device known as the "[[Cooper Vane]]", a mechanical aerodynamic wedge, which prevents the rear stairway from being lowered in flight.

==Suspects==

===Richard McCoy Jr.===

One of the 1972 hijackings was carried out by Richard McCoy Jr. On [[April 7]], [[1972]], four months after D.B. Cooper's hijacking, McCoy boarded United Flight 855 during a stopover in Denver. It was a Boeing 727 with aft stairs, the same type used in the Cooper incident, which McCoy used to escape after giving the crew the same type of instructions as Dan Cooper.

Police started to investigate McCoy after a tip. He was a married former [[Mormon]] [[Sunday school]] teacher with two young children who was studying law enforcement at [[Brigham Young University]]. He was also a [[Vietnam War|Vietnam]] veteran, a former [[Green Berets|Green Beret]] [[helicopter]] [[pilot]], and an avid [[skydiving|skydiver]].

Following a [[fingerprint]] and handwriting match, McCoy was arrested two days after the hijacking. Inside his house FBI agents found a [[jumpsuit]] and a duffel bag filled with cash totalling $499,970. McCoy claimed innocence, but was convicted and received a 45-year sentence.

Once incarcerated, using his access to the prison's dental office, McCoy fashioned a fake handgun out of dental paste. He and a crew of convicts escaped in August [[1974]] by stealing a [[garbage truck]] and crashing it though the prison's main gate. It took three months for the FBI to locate McCoy, in [[Virginia]]. McCoy shot at the FBI agents and agent Nicholas O'Hara fired back with a shotgun, killing him.

''D.B. Cooper: The Real McCoy'', co-authored by an ex-FBI agent named Russell Calame, was published in [[1991]]. The book made the case that Cooper and McCoy were really the same person, citing similar methods of hijacking and a tie left by Cooper similar to those worn by Brigham Young students. The author said that McCoy "never admitted nor denied he was Cooper." And when McCoy was directly asked whether he was Cooper he replied "I don't want to talk to you about it." The agent who killed McCoy is quoted as saying, "When I shot Richard McCoy, I shot D.B. Cooper at the same time." The widow of Richard McCoy, Karen Burns McCoy, sued and won a settlement from both the book's coauthors and its publisher.

===Duane Weber===

In August [[2000]], ''[[U.S. News and World Report]]'' ran an article about a widow in [[Pace, Florida]] named Jo Weber and her claim that her late husband, Duane Weber, had told her "I'm Dan Cooper" before his death in [[1995]]. She became suspicious and began checking into her late husband's background. Duane Weber had served in the Army during [[World War II]] and later had served time in a prison near the Portland airport. Mrs. Weber recalled that her husband had once had a nightmare where he talked in his sleep about jumping from a plane. She had once found an old plane ticket in his papers for Northwest Airlines that said SEA-TAC (Seattle-Tacoma airport.) One of the most convincing pieces of evidence Mrs. Weber related was the fact she had checked out a book on the Cooper case from the local library and saw notations in it that matched her husband's handwriting. Mrs. Weber began corresponding with FBI Agent Ralph Himmelsbach, the chief investigator of the Cooper case. Himmelsbach has said Weber is one of the best suspects he has come across.

Although the match between the composite drawing and pictures of Duane Weber must be considered inconclusive, recently, facial recognition [[software]] was used on 3000 photographs (including that of a Weber and two other suspects) to identify him as "the best match" (in 3000).

==External link==
*[http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/DB_Cooper/ Crime Library: D.B. Cooper]

[[Category:Unsolved crimes]]
[[Category:Criminals]]

2023-08-12T23:34:46Z

Editor123:

Theodore Kaczynski

2023-08-12T23:33:23Z

Editor123:

[[Image:Unabomber1.jpg|right|thumb|Kaczynski's Mugshot]]
'''Theodore John "Ted" Kaczynski''' (May 22, 1942 - June 10, 2023)<ref name=biography.com>[https://www.biography.com/crime-figure/ted-kaczynski Ted Kaczynski] Biography.com.<blockquote>Kaczynski was born on May 22, 1942, in Chicago, Illinois, the oldest child of a Polish-American couple, Wanda and Theodore.</blockquote></ref> was a mathematician and a convicted [[terrorist]] for his campaign of mail bombings. He is best known by the nickname "Unabomber," and was target of the [[FBI]]'s biggest manhunt in history. Kaczynski is widely admired by [[anarchist]]s.<ref>[http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/8567 From Anarchistnews, lauding a book by Kaczynski]</ref>

Ted Kaczynski, the oldest child of a Polish-American couple, Wanda and Theodore,<ref name=biography.com/> had received his Ph.D. in mathematics from University of Michigan in 1967. His dissertation entitled ''Boundary Functions'' received was judged as the best dissertation of that year, winning him a prize. From mid-1967 until July 1969 Kaczynski served as an assistant professor at [[UCLA|University of California]] at Berkeley. In July 1969, Kaczynski resigned his position as assistant professor and moved into the woods of [[Montana]] to live as a hermit.

After his campaign of mail bombings, Kaczynski wrote an essay titled ''Industrial Society and its Future'' (later dubbed the ''Unabomber Manifesto''); in it, he described the motives for his terrorism activities. He promised that the terrorism would end if the essay were published, and major newspapers published it. Although Kaczynski dubbed himself an "anarchist", other anarchists disagree as to whether his manifesto truly represents an anarchist critique of technology. There is also little indication that he ever had any contact or involvement with the anarchist movement prior to his arrest.<ref>[http://www.allserialkillers.com/information_on_the_unbomber.htm Information On The Unabomber]</ref>

He was involved in various liberal activities.<ref>Cal Thomas, [https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=19960411&id=t6cyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4uYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3106,3469130&hl=en Did Liberalism Spur Unabomber?], Lawrence Journal-World, Apr 11, 1996</ref>

Kyczynski's Manifesto was an early blueprint for the [[Green New Deal]].<ref>https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/the-unabomber-ted-kaczynski-new-generation-of-acolytes.html</ref>

Kyczynski was found dead in his prison cell on June 10, 2023. He was 81 years old.

==Additional Reading==
*[https://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/ethics/Unabomber.pdf Kaczynski's manifesto, "Industrial Society and its Future"]

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Kaczynski, Theodore}}
[[Category:Mathematicians]]
[[Category:Criminals]]

User talk:RobSmith

2023-08-12T23:25:36Z

Editor123: /* A question */

User talk:RobSmith

2023-08-12T21:42:29Z

Editor123: /* A question */ new section

User talk:Aschlafly

2023-08-12T15:56:59Z

Editor123: /* False alarm! */

==Re:User talk pages==
[[File:Clandestine.PNG|right|500px|thumb|Despite User:Cons incessant trolling and globalist views, Citizen Journalists have defeated the mainstream globalist narrative and saved the planet from Chernobyl 2.0.]]
::::(ec) Ok. I apologize, and I will adhere to that policy. I only ask User:Conservative cease his relentless trolling of me with pure nonsense. We have just gone through probably the most difficult week of the [[Ukraine war]], and I must have wasted more than two whole days of that week with his uninformed, unconstructive, redundant, incessant trolling on other talk pages. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 03:02, July 7, 2023 (EDT)

:::::None of this is good faith editing. He apparently [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User:Conservative/mail&diff=1960864&oldid=1960856 just moments ago forged User:Elijahandskip's signature] to his user talk page (without a date and time stamp) and there is [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?limit=500&tagfilter=&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Elijahandskip&namespace=3&tagfilter=&year=2023&month=-1 no record of User:Elijahandskip ever posting to his talk page.] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 03:16, July 7, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Andy, I replaced Elijahskip's post [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special:Undelete&target=User%3AConservative%2Fmail&diff=prev&timestamp=20210331163215 HERE], with a more recent response I made to my [[User:Conservative/mail]] page which came from [[User: NishantXavier]]. But I am guessing you are not obsessing over any minutiae related to my posts. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 03:46, July 7, 2023 (EDT)

:::::::Bad faith editing is bad faith editing. The question is, why was a polite and cordial invitation from a good faith editor 2 and half years ago ever ignored and summarily deleted in the first place? And why is it resurrected now, after the good faith editor was treated rudely and ignored? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 03:51, July 7, 2023 (EDT)

:::::::Pardon me, but I don't believe when we passed the "Castle" rule, it gave Admins the right to treat good faith editors rudely and ignore their requests and inquiries. If you wanted to ignore him, that is one thing; to delete his posting completely as if his time and effort is just garbage and beneath you, is another. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 04:00, July 7, 2023 (EDT)
I am not having any further discussions with RobS due to him: rudely using templates covering my texts in civil discussions; reverting cordial posts in civil discussions; falsely calling me a Nazi; screaming over the phone, etc.

I read an interesting article entitled [https://medium.com/the-mission/youre-not-the-average-of-the-five-people-you-surround-yourself-with-f21b817f6e69 You’re NOT The Average Of The Five People You Surround Yourself With] which essentially echos the American basketball coach John Wooden who said “You show me your friends, and I’ll show you your future.” I also recently read the classic assertiveness training book entitled "Your Perfect Right" which is a fantastic book - especially when it comes to dealing with difficult people.

Needless to say, my days of having unnecessary discussions with RobS are over. And I am not reading his content. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 04:05, July 7, 2023 (EDT)

:"Rudely using templates", huh? From now on, what if I just delete the whole talk page you post to, as you have done for 15 years? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 04:10, July 7, 2023 (EDT)

:Andy, above is a prime example of one if his trolling techniques: to [[spam]] the discussion with extraneous and irrelevant material. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 04:12, July 7, 2023 (EDT)
::Andy, as I am sure you are aware, I have actively attempted to avoid interacting with RobS. And you kindly asking RobS to stop posting to my user talk page should temper his recent obsessive behavior towards me. I suggest that RobS fill his schedule chock-full of meaningful activities rather than obsessively posting to my talk page messages that he knows that I am not interested in. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 04:18, July 7, 2023 (EDT)

:::More spam and more bad faith editing. You invited yourself here to Andy's talk page to interrupt my comments to Andy. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 04:24, July 7, 2023 (EDT)
::::RobS, I have nothing further to say to you. I am going to go back to doing more productive things. I suggest you do the same and move on. Life is too short to engage in pointless obsessions and petty bickering. But by all means, feel free to engage in [[last wordism]]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 04:32, July 7, 2023 (EDT)
:::::I do not believe, as you told me on the phone, that Andy agrees with you that conservativism means being stubborn and ignorant. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 04:36, July 7, 2023 (EDT)

===More bad faith editing===
After being called out for dishonesty and fraud by altering an editor's good faith posting, [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User:Conservative/mail&diff=1960864&oldid=1960856 he again misuses the Deletion log] to cover his tracks. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 04:55, July 7, 2023 (EDT)

*[https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Essay:_Was_April_2022_a_pivotal_point_in_geopolitics_that_will_affect_geopolitics_for_30_years_or_was_it_a_failed_prediction_concerning_the_war_in_Ukraine%3F&curid=178063&action=history 3+ hours and 65 edits] on an [https://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Essay:_Was_April_2022_a_pivotal_point_in_geopolitics_that_will_affect_geopolitics_for_30_years_or_was_it_a_failed_prediction_concerning_the_war_in_Ukraine%3F Attack page]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 15:12, July 8, 2023 (EDT)
:I have been [[troll]]ed now [https://www.conservapedia.com/Special:RecentChanges for 5 hours with specious editing and an attack page], wasting an entire day. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 17:37, July 8, 2023 (EDT)

*Ever since User:Conservative made his [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:NishantXavier&diff=prev&oldid=1967969#Did_a_final_post "final post" to a Debate page] this morning, he has turned it into another [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:_Luther,_Protestantism_vs._Catholicism:_Which_is_better%3F&curid=178495&action=history spamfest with nearly 40,000 bytes of anti-Catholic bigotry.] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 20:15, August 4, 2023 (EDT)
::NishantXavier is the person debating me RobS - not you. And NishantXavier has criticized various Protestants and Protestantism in our Protestantism vs. Catholicism debate and of course I am going to criticize Catholicism and various Catholics in our debate.

::In addition, the User: Conservative account has had a Catholic editor use the account. I haven't had problems with the Catholic editor who shared the User: Conservative account for entire time he has used the account (And Andy doesn't have any issues with him either and allowed me to share the account with him). Also, Andy Schlafly is a Catholic and we have a cordial relationship. And unlike you, RobS, I have never been desysoped by Andy due to uncivil behavior. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 20:27, August 4, 2023 (EDT)
:::Go on, just keep venting your spleen against Roman Catholicism for 12 hours after you said you made your final post. That, by any definition is [[trolling]] and being incourteous to other users' time. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 20:38, August 4, 2023 (EDT)
::::I have an inclination that our debate is winding down. I know I have touched upon the most relevant points I wished to make. It's been a while since I was a Catholic so it took a while for me to recall some of the points about Catholicism that I neglected to mention in the first 90% of our debate. In addition, I was mainly responding to User: NishantXavier throughout most of the debate. But in the latter portion of the debate, I initiated some of my own points. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 21:14, August 4, 2023 (EDT)
:::::The Debate was supposed to be about you responding to criticism of the writings of Martin Luther, not attacking Catholicism. Nice venture into [[whataboutism]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 21:27, August 4, 2023 (EDT)
I disagree. The title of the debate is: [[Debate: Luther, Protestantism vs. Catholicism: Which is better?]] and User: NishantXavier has made many posts to it. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 21:45, August 4, 2023 (EDT)
:Why would I agree to a "boxing match" where I could merely block my opponent's jabs, but I couldn't make any counter jabs? I would never agree to such a debate. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 21:49, August 4, 2023 (EDT)
::You're trolling now. All anyone needs to do is read the "debate" from the top line. It began with you calling the Body of Christ "a corrupt joke" two years ago, and standing by your statement now. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 22:38, August 4, 2023 (EDT)
:::RobS, you called Catholicism "a false gospel" as can be seen [https://www.conservapedia.com/Debate:Does_the_Catholic_Church_have_the_biblical_authority_of_Christ_Himself_to_preach_and_to_teach_the_truth_forever%3F#User:RobSmith HERE]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 22:42, August 4, 2023 (EDT)
::::I said the Roman Church teaches a false gospel (as many, many churches do). That's a far cry from calling the church members "a corrupt joke", which you've had three years to ponder over and doubled down on. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:24, August 4, 2023 (EDT)

==Essay space used to create incivil attack pages on other editors==
Andy, [https://www.conservapedia.com/Essay:_Was_April_2022_a_pivotal_point_in_geopolitics_that_will_affect_geopolitics_for_30_years_or_was_it_a_failed_prediction_concerning_the_war_in_Ukraine%3F doesn't this violate a basic precept you asked editors not to engage in] some time ago? Please intervene. Thank you. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 19:28, July 8, 2023 (EDT)
:RobS, just because someone disagrees with you and defends a post he made about Ukraine (which you posted on your user page) by giving the context and historical context, that does not violate Conservapedia's civility rules in any way.

:Civility not equal alway agreeing with RobS or not defending one's position when it is unfairly attacked in a way that does not give adequate context. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 19:33, July 8, 2023 (EDT)

::[[Essay:Nonsensical postings made by a certain Admin]] (Please add to the list). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 19:40, July 8, 2023 (EDT)
:::Bottom line: RobS, You keep wanting to bait me (In this case with an out-of-context quote of mine that you put atop your user page without the context of the material I said around it nor the historical context) and then insist that I do not give a rebuttal. Well, I am going to give a rebuttal. And it is very unreasonable of you to not think that I will not give a rebuttal or do not have the right to do so. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 19:42, July 8, 2023 (EDT)
::::If Andy doesn't respond, I guess it's open season. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 19:44, July 8, 2023 (EDT)
:::::Folks, let's stick with the substantive editing to encyclopedic entries. It's far more beneficial to all. We do have a [[90/10 Rule]] against talk. Thanks!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 21:21, July 8, 2023 (EDT)

==July 7, 2023==
Interesting, Jill Lepore on the great Mrs. P. Schlafly
[https://www.pbs.org/wnet/firing-line/video/jill-lepore-dfmre7/] (FiringLine, Jul 7, 2023).[[User:Telling|Telling]] ([[User talk:Telling|talk]]) 17:53, July 9, 2023 (EDT)
:Thanks for the link!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 17:55, July 9, 2023 (EDT)

NP. Quote from Lepore: ''..I think Schlafly’s just fascinating. She really has been ignored by historians for two reasons. One, academic historians, who tend to be liberal, have really been bad at offering a history of the rise of the modern conservative movement, this just tremendously important political insurgency, you know, since the 1950s, of which, you know, Buckley’s Firing Line was an important element. And then conservative historians just haven’t really paid attention to Schlafly because she was a woman.''[[User:Telling|Telling]] ([[User talk:Telling|talk]])
:That's a very interesting quote. Thank you. Perhaps there could be a new entry that devoted to this issue.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 20:28, July 9, 2023 (EDT)
::Tnanks Andy. Your opinion on [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Phyllis_Schlafly&diff=prev&oldid=1961979 this] please?[[User:Telling|Telling]] ([[User talk:Telling|talk]])
:::It's superb! Very well done. Thank you!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 02:23, July 10, 2023 (EDT)

== Request ==

Hi Andy, can you please tell Karajou that I'm deeply sorry for my iniquities against him two years ago during the massive intra-Conservapedia dispute and that I would be interested in talking to him again? Thanks. —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Tuesday, 15:22, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:Don't fall for it Andy. It's just another one of these conspiracies to sow division in Conservapedia and attack active editors. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 16:04, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::RobSmith, you insisted over and over again 2–3 years ago that if Karajou was defrocked, you would be able to fix Conservapedia. Your promise at this point can be clearly seen as a broken one. All you've done is turn the site into a laughingstock. —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Tuesday, 16:33, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::How many [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page=&year=&month=-1&tagfilter= blocks and vandal attacks] have we had in the past 8-9 months? There used to be a half dozen daily.
:::I never said Kara should be defrocked; I said he needed to be reined in and counselled on the proper role and duties of an Admin. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 17:00, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::::"i nEvEr" Oh really? How many more instances of [[liberal denial]] will you propagate before I pull out a list of receipts proving the liar you are? "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44) —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Tuesday, 18:25, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::::Misuing and misquoting scripture is "taking the Lord's name in vain". I never claimed to be descended from Abraham. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 20:43, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Does an individual have to incorrectly claim to have Abraham as their father to qualify as a child of Satan? The basic concept is applied, both overtly and covertly, throughout the Bible. The Apostle Paul told Elymas the Sorcerer: "O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?" (Acts 13:10) —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Wednesday, 21:21, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::Now you're trolling Andy's talk page. This discussion should be moved elsewhere. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 22:05, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::You're one to talk on the issue of trolling! —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Wednesday, 22:14, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::::What goes around comes around. Do unto others. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 23:21, July 11, 2023 (EDT)

== The importance of diversification and resiliency. The tale of the followers of a tired and dying ideology whose web traffic is dying ==

Andy, since March of 2023 the website [[Internet Infidels]] lost 50% of its traffic.

Western atheism had too many eggs in the [[Richard Dawkins]] and [[secular left]]ism basket. Dawkins is far less popular (See: [[Richard Dawkins' loss of influence]]). And now that [[Joe Biden]] is very unpopular and Europe is moving to the political right, that further hurt the atheistic cause and this is only going to get worse due to right-wing populism growing. On top of this, the mainstream media has lost a lot of trust and they used to promote atheism more in the past (See: [[Atheism and public relations]]). Also, people with [[professor values]] promoted atheism and many colleges are closing.

I predict that the next economic recession is going to REALLY hurt the atheistic cause due to the superior fundraising/resources of Christendom (See: [[Atheist fundraising vs. religious fundraising]]).

Conservapedia needs to expand its content because its atheism traffic could taper off over time due to less and less people having interest in atheism. Look at how much traffic to [[Internet atheism|atheist websites]] is falling: [[Internet atheism]] and [[Internet atheism web traffic volume]].

Christendom is going to go from victory to victory (See: [[Future of Christianity]]). Deus Vult!!! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:27, July 20, 2023 (EDT)

:You need more editors to do that, and it's not done by chasing away editors. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]
::::I do have one regret about LT. When I wrote about LT "If he wants to be nasty and contentious (see his initial post on this page), then good riddance. Conservative (talk) 15:30, July 13, 2023 (EDT)", that was too harsh. LT is young and is more hot-headed. I know he hates right-wing populism. And to be fair, among other things, right-wing populists are not very good at balancing budgets when countries have a big amount of sovereign debt. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 10:29, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
:::::In addition, when I titled my essay [[Essay: On behalf of all Christians who are politically right-leaning, I hereby declare victory! Olé! Olé! Olé!|On behalf of all Christians who are politically right-leaning, I hereby declare victory! Olé! Olé! Olé!]], I could have just used merely one "Olé!". Maybe using three olés was too provocative. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 10:35, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
:::It's not '''what''' you think or believe., it's '''how''' you interact with others that matters. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 10:23, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
Andy can fix the login problem. But editor retention is important so template pollution through uncivilly covering up people's civil content via a template needs to end. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 10:41, July 20, 2023 (EDT)

: Make up your mind if you want editor retention or not. You're sending mixed signals. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 10:42, July 20, 2023 (EDT)

== Robert Louis Stevenson ==

I am a fan of Robert Louis Stevenson too. When I was a young man I loved the book ''Treasure Island'' and the short story ''The Tell-Tale Heart''.

I usually read nonfiction, but I think the next non-fiction works that I read will be ''Pilgrim's Progress'', ''Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde'' and ''Alice's Adventures in Wonderland''. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 20:40, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
:''The Tell-Tale Heart'' was by [[Edgar Allan Poe]]. I encourage reading the free, available online ''[[Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde]]''. It is remarkably [[conservative]] and brilliantly written.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 21:54, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
::Thanks. I just found a free PDF copy of the book at: [https://www.commackschools.org/Downloads/Jekyll%20and%20Hyde%20text.pdf Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Free PDF copy]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 22:59, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
:::There are many [[Christian]] and [[conservative]] phrases in it. I guess that's why it is rarely part of high school reading today!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:43, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
::::The first sentence of [https://www.commackschools.org/Downloads/Jekyll%20and%20Hyde%20text.pdf Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Free PDF copy]: "Mr. Utterson the lawyer was a man of a '''rugged countenance''' that was never lighted by a smile; cold, scanty and embarrassed in discourse; backward in sentiment; lean, long, dusty, dreary and yet somehow lovable."

::::"Rugged countenance"? That sounds like "toxic masculinity". :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:52, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
:::::That is a great example of [[manliness]] in [[literature]]. I've added it to several entries. Thanks!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 14:01, July 23, 2023 (EDT)Conservapedia:Copyrights
https://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Copyrights

==Question==
I have been meaning to ask you this for a long time, But what happen to the 'Create Account' button, my friend is trying to create himself a new account but their is no way to do so because the option is missing, What happened?

:I've been focusing on content. Legitimate new users can email me at aschlafly@aol.com to obtain a new account. A reference or some verification of [[good faith]] is preferred. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 16:32, July 23, 2023 (EDT)

==Using Essay space to attack other editors is a fundamental violation of CP civility rules==
[https://www.conservapedia.com/Special:Log/delete] He's free to do it in his own userspace. I thought we settled this matter. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 22:51, July 26, 2023 (EDT)f
:The essay made no mention of you. Expressing views you disagree with or don't like is not a personal attack. You are behaving incivilly and intolerantly. If you want a place on the internet where only views that you agree with and like are expressed, launch a blog or website that you own and have complete control over. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 16:19, July 29, 2023 (EDT)
::That's a lie. The entire Essay then, and now as it remains in your user space, is predicated on a statement I made In April 2022, which you at the time refuted. And now you spent 50,000 bytes and several weeks trying to walk away from the refutation cause you can't simply delete it, as has become your habit when you make stupid remarks. 16:38, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
:::Undelete the essay dealing with Russian war crimes in Ukraine and show us where it mentions you. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 16:44, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
::{ec) That's what the Scroll Template is for: for when an editor makes a [[trolling]], nonsensical, or off topic remark intended to derail discussion. The Scroll Template is one solution to Admins abusing their power with deletion, deleting whole discussions and other editor's postings when the Admin makes stupid or embarrassing comments. An Admin should first function as a Moderator, resolving problems and conflicts, not stirring up conflict on Talk pages with [[spam]] and self-serving off-topic references. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 16:51, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
:::You unsurprisingly failed to show I lied - very predictable. I am moving on.

:::I predict that Andy will totally ignore your spurious complaint.

:::Feel free to engage in [[last wordism]]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 16:54, July 30, 2023 (EDT)

::::Here's your [https://www.conservapedia.com/User:Conservative:_Was_April_2022_a_pivotal_point_in_geopolitics_that_will_affect_geopolitics_for_30_years_or_was_it_a_failed_prediction_concerning_the_war_in_Ukraine%3F Essay attack on me in your user space.] You just lied again. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 17:04, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
::::: You're trying to waste my time as my [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Essay:_The_Russians_in_Ukraine_are_engaging_in_brutal_warfare_and_torture._And_they_persecute_Protestants._If_they_lose_or_are_forced_to_the_peace_table,_the_world_would_be_better_for_it._But_a_lasting_peace_settlement_is_the_best_solution.&action=edit&redlink=1 former essay on Russia war crimes in Ukraine did not mention you]. I am not going to sucked into your dysfunctional behavior. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 17:24, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
::::::You'ew being deliberately deceptive and disingenuous again, trying to bamboozle Andy this time with more BS. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 21:52, July 30, 2023 (EDT)

== Kingdom ==

Hebrews 1:8 called. Said "But unto the Son he saith, Thy '''throne''', O God, is for ever and ever: a '''sceptre''' of righteousness is the '''sceptre''' of thy '''kingdom'''."

I've got missed calls from a bunch of Psalms and others as well, but I figured we should probably cut straight to [[Mystery:Did Jesus Write the Epistle to the Hebrews?|the Son as man Himself]]. [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 20:16, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:You make a great point, and I'll consider this carefully. Will respond later tonight after studying this in depth. Thank you.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 22:39, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:The New Living Translation breaks from the pressure to use "kingdom" and instead translates this verse as:
{{cquote|But to the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. You rule with a scepter of justice. [https://www.biblehub.com/hebrews/1-8.htm See Biblehub]}}
:The [[KJV]] rendition that you quote above strains to use "kingdom" in overly a repetitive way. Rather, the statement would be far stronger if it emphasized that righteousness is the standard in God's [[paradise]], as in "a scepter of righteousness is the standard of thy paradise."--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:30, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::Andy, thrones and sceptres are the things of kings and kingdoms. ConwayII has you in a Bible exegesis full-nelson and I don't see you getting out of it. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 00:23, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::Appreciate the humor and the challenge! But [[ancient Greece]] had no "thrones and sceptres," and neither did ancient [[Greek]]. Like "kingdom", those terms are also figments of the [[monarchy|monarchical]] [[England]]. Thus [[checkmate]]. Ha ha hal. A still better rendition:
{{cquote|Thy presence, O [[God]], is [[infinite]]: a commitment to [[righteousness]] is the standard of thy [[paradise]].}}--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 01:20, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

::::Respectfully, no. Hebrews 1:8 is a deliberate riff on Psalm 45:6: Thy '''throne''', O God, is for ever and ever: the '''sceptre''' of thy '''kingdom''' is a right '''sceptre'''.

::::Cf. Psalm 103:19 (The Lord hath prepared his '''throne''' in the heavens; and his '''kingdom''' ruleth over all.), Psalm 145:1 (I will extol thee, my God, O '''king'''; and I will bless thy name for ever and ever.) and the repeated and reinforcing use of '''majesty''' in verses 5 and 12.

::::The trials and tribulations of various earthly kings and kingdoms is a major thread running right through the OT, and Hebrew's contemporary audience would have had zero difficulty thinking of God in those monarchical terms. You might not like it, but that's not really relevant, is it?

::::As a final note, I urge you to go back to the Greek myths and any reliable history of the actual ancient Greece. You'll find plenty of kings. [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 06:17, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

:::::Like King [[Agamemnon]], for instance. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 11:45, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

:::::Ancient [[Greek]] did not even have a word for "king", which is mostly an [[Anglophile]] obsession. All the "king" and "kingdom" language in the [[English]] translations of the [[New Testament]] is a dilution by the [[Brit]]s.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 13:15, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Oedipus Rex, usually translated Oedipus the King. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:29, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::::::And from Rex we get a whole family of words, like reign, royal, Reich, etc. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:30, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

(Outdent) OK. Let's do this in French, German and Spanish, and then look at the Vulgate Latin and the Septuagint Greek. Psalm 145:1:
*Je t'exalterai, ô mon Dieu, mon '''roi'''! Et je bénirai ton nom à toujours et à perpétuité.
*Ich will dich erheben, mein Gott, du '''König''', und deinen Namen loben immer und ewiglich.
*Te exaltaré mi Dios, oh '''Rey''', y bendeciré tu nombre eternamente y para siempre.
*Exaltabo te, Deus meus '''rex''' ; et benedicam nomini tuo in sæculum, et in sæculum sæculi.
*Ὑψώσω σε, ὁ θεός μου ὁ '''βασιλεύς''' μου, καὶ εὐλογήσω τὸ ὄνομά σου εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος·

Herodotus used the same language 100+ years before the Septuagint was compiled. A very sensible chap called Demaratus asks Xerxes ([https://www.livius.org/sources/content/achaemenid-royal-inscriptions/xph/ a king of kings!]) if he's ''really'' in the mood for some plain speaking and repeatedly addresses him with the honorific '''Βασιλεῦ'''. See end of 101 and beginning of 102: [https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Herodotus/7b*.html English] [https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/H/Roman/Texts/Herodotus/7B*.html#101 Greek]

[[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 14:48, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:This is terrific information, but your French/German/Spanish translations above are of a verse in [[Psalms]], not the [[Epistle to the Hebrews]]. Psalms was not originally written in Greek, and the [[Old Testament]] does refer to kings. The ancient [[Greek]] does not, as it had different types of government. The less biased Wiktionary explains that the primary meaning of βασιλεύς is "chief, master" and its notes describes it as an authority who could, as in a foreign ruler, coincidentally be a king there (but not in Greece). [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B2%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%BB%CE%B5%CF%8D%CF%82]--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 17:56, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::A king or kingdom denotes an heredity bloodline for the "continuity of government", a Republic has no such doctrine. This is why the Roman Catholic Church adopted celibacy, so that no heredity bloodline would have a claim on the Papacy. In Islam, Shia Islam traces its origins to the family of Mohammad, whereas Sunni Islam traces its origins to the Prophet and his Companions. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 18:32, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

::What's Wiktionary got to do with this? I've just pointed to you to Herodotus (an ancient Greek historian writing c. 430 BC) using Βασιλεῦ in reference to Xerxes, the Persian king (c. 518 – 465 BC) famed for his invasion of Greece. This is a primary linguistic source and obviously relevant re. translating βασιλείας as "kingdom" in Hebrews 1:8.

::The ancient Greeks had these words (and others) for "king" and "kingdom" and your claims to the contrary are simply untrue.

::I'd prefer it if you'd have the grace to concede this narrow point so we can get back to the meat of the discussion. Thanks, [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 19:20, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::Conway, your scholarship is excellent and I'm learning from it. Seriously, I mean it. You're right that the verse in Hebrews is a paraphrase, almost a direct quote, in Greek of the verse in Psalms.
:::But languages do sometimes lack words for certain terms. It seems natural that Herodotus used the Greek word for authority to refer to Xerxes. He was indeed an authority, a ruler. That doesn't prove that the Greek term meant "king". And jumping from there to translate the corresponding Greek term as "kingdom" is a bridge too far, it seems to me. I don't intend to be disagreeable about this, and most English translations side with you. I attribute that the immense [[British]], pro-monarchical influence over the English translations. I admit that any version today which departed from that tradition is not going to sell very many copies! But with "kingdom" today connoting [[Mickey Mouse]] and other silliness, overreliance on that term may be causing folks to drive away from the benefits they could obtain from an undiluted translation.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 22:00, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::::It's an interesting discussion, but I'm going to thumbnail the issue here:
:::::God initially told Moses when he delivered the law that Israel was not to be like other people, and God was to be both their God and king. But God prophesized through Moses that one day the people would rebel and demand a king. When they entered the land, they had Judges, and not a king. Later in Samuel's day the people rebelled and wanted a king, and God told Samuel to grant them their wish. Samuel anointed Saul, and later David. This succession of kings continued until the Babylonian captivity, when the kingdom was destroyed. But the prophecy of a messiah was that he would restore the kingdom. The genealogies in Matthew and Luke attest to the fact that Jesus was heir to the promises made to David.
:::::The Pharisees told Pilot that Jesus was a fraud and he was challenging Ceasar for the title of King of the Jews (they feared reprisals against the people if the Romans interpreted people calling Jesus 'king' as rebellion against Roman occupation, as well as their own loss of power among the people).
:::::IOWs, the prophecies of a messiah were, and are, interpreted as also meaning 'king'. Now remember, God advised against wanting or having a king, but gave them what they wanted anyway. It wasn't the first time. There are many instances in the bible where God offers people a choice, advises on what God says is the right choice, people reject what God says and he grants them what they wanted anyway. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:14, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::::For example: ''You may eat of the trees of the garden, except for the tree in the midst of the garden...'', etc. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:29, August 5, 2023 (EDT)
[[File:Jesus throne.jpg|thumbnail|center|400px|"At once I was in the spirit, and there in heaven stood a <big>'''throne'''</big>, with one seated on the throne!" (Revelation 4:2 NRSV)
 
 
"They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is <big>'''Lord of lords and King of kings'''</big>, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.” {Revelation 17:14 ESV)]]

At Conservapedia, we have no king but Jesus! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 12:21, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:One more note: When Jesus asked, ''What think ye Christ, whose son is he, David's or God's? And they responded, 'David's'. And Jesus said 'Why then does David in spirit call him Lord?'' - Jesus is making a direct reference to Psalm 45, which then again is cited in Hebrews chapter 1. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:05, August 2, 2023 (EDT)

@Andy: That's certainly gracious (thanks), but it's definitely not conceding the point. Let's try this instead:

#OT authors properly referred to earthly kings and kingdoms when writing in the original Hebrew or Aramaic.
#The authors of Psalms 45, 103 & 145 used precise monarchical imagery re. God, again when writing in the original Hebrew or Aramaic.
#The author of ''Hebrews'' chose to replicate that imagery, most notably and precisely at 1:8.
#Therefore, if the author of Psalm 45 intended to say "kingdom" in verse 6, then the author of ''Hebrews'' intended to say "kingdom" at 1:8 '''whether or not''' you agree βασιλείας adequately captures that concept.
#Given your beliefs re. the author of ''Hebrews'', there can be '''no question''' re. error in His word choice.
#In short, He chose βασιλείας as the most accurate Greek rendition of "kingdom" available to Him.

I think you'd like to say that, if He was writing ''Hebrews'' '''today''', He would likely choose a different word, such as "paradise", and perhaps even abandon the monarchical imagery entirely, for the reasons you've outlined.

That's a very different argument to the one you've made so far, and one that many (most?) people would find very presumptuous.

It does, however, have the distinct advantage of accurately capturing your sincere beliefs without foundering linguistically or logically. Essentially, it's a WWJD? exercise re. the decline of monarchy and the development of the English language. [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 15:57, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:Conway, your argument is brilliant and I'm learning from it. Ten years ago I would have been more argumentative in disagreement than today. You are certainly at least mostly right here, and I had never thought of this before. Well done.
:I'm not totally convinced as to "kingdom", however, even assuming you're right about "king". The trick here is switching from Hebrew to Greek to English, and also recognizing that the word choice by the author of the [[Epistle to the Hebrews]], which I'm convinced was [[Jesus]], was constrained by words his audience (not Greek linguists) could understand. "Kingdom", it still seems to me, is a [[British]] invention that certainly conferred immense benefits on the world, but has lost its effectiveness in language.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 19:08, August 2, 2023 (EDT)

::Thanks. That's very kind. It strikes me that "kingdom" is simply a function of "king". We can call it a "realm" or something else entirely, but the concept itself (that which is the king's to rule) doesn't change.

::As for the Hebrew:

::*'''Root word:''' king (''melek'') מֶלֶךְ
::*'''Genesis 39:20:''' of the king (earthly) הַמֶּ֖לֶךְ
::*'''Psalm 45:6:''' of Your kingdom (divine) מַלְכוּתֶֽךָ
::*'''Psalm 103:19:''' and His kingdom (divine) מַלְכוּתֶֽךָ
::*'''Psalm 145:1:''' King (divine title) הַמֶּ֑לֶךְ
::*'''1 Kings 1:32:''' King (earthly title) הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ
::*'''Judges 15:9:''' the kings (earthly) מַלְכֵ֣י
::*'''Daniel 11:9:''' to the kingdom (earthly) בְּמַלְכוּת֙

::I don't pretend to understand the grammar or the diacritics or how to pronounce any of it, but there's enough orthographic similarity to reasonably infer consistent use of the root, as with king / kingdom in English. At a minimum, all the above contain מֶלֶ with varying diacritics.

::[[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 22:24, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::Conway, your analysis is excellent. You're probably right about the use of "king" in the [[Old Testament]]. And to the extent a book in the [[New Testament]] quotes the Old, it is what it is, as you point out.
:::But I think "kingdom" might really be a sufficiently different concept now, at least post-[[Disney]] where its "magical kingdom" really has nothing to do with any "king". I'd like to ponder this further. "Kingdom" is such a basic concept, even recited daily by up to a hundred million people in [[The Lord's Prayer]], that some additional care in analysis of this is appropriate. Thanks again for providing your highly informative perspective and examples.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:32, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::P.S. When I say "post-[[Disney]]" above, I'm not referring to the current political dispute between Disney and [[Ron DeSantis]] (and others). All I mean by that is how "kingdom" has become a fairy tale concept, at least in the [[U.S.]], in part due to Disney, and I don't fault them for that.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:53, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
::::"The trick here is switching from Hebrew to Greek to English". To get to English, you have to go through German, first. Gr. Rex -> Ger. König -> Eng. King. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 02:08, August 5, 2023 (EDT)
::::Now German uses "Reich" for kingdom, which is derived from Gr. Rex. In English, the closest surviving word we have to "Reich" is "rich", denoting something of a commonwealth. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 02:13, August 5, 2023 (EDT)

== real things in fiction ==

I asked Rob but I figured I'd also ask what your opinion on covering real things in fiction here. I added something to the [[George Washington]] article as an example. [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 13:18, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:I like it! Please do more. We're at the intersection of culture, knowledge and politics, and cultural or fictional references to historical figures is a big part of that. Thank you.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 13:23, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::What do you mean by "intersection of culture"? This wiki's? [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 13:27, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::Right I mean that Conservapedia is at the intersection of culture, knowledge and politics.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 17:13, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

==An Admin is vandalizing other users Talk pages, again, in violation of the Castle rule, to hide his embarrassing arguments==
[https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:NishantXavier&diff=prev&oldid=1967643] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 17:10, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:Let's see if the user himself complains. He hasn't yet, as far as I know. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 17:12, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::We agreed in the past, due to Protestant conflict with Dataclarifier and other Catholics, that debates would happen on debate pages and not user pages. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 17:13, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::That does not give you any right to revert other users talk pages and other users' discussions. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 17:21, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

:::[https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:NishantXavier&diff=prev&oldid=1967782 He did it again.] I did not participate in the formal Debate page, yet User:Cons made it appear I had. I made private, confidential postings on a user's talk page, where only the user has the discretion to remove it. This is very disrespectful of users' postings. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 20:06, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

:::Nowhere in my Conribs (with one exception) is there a record of me participating in the formal Debate, yet now I have to contend with someone who may claim I did. This is extremely unfair and misleading. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 20:13, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

:::I served notice three years ago, [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:NishantXavier&diff=prev&oldid=1671092 I am not interested in church debates, 'who's better than who'], yet my signature was electronically forged to appear I lied and do not stand by my word. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 20:17, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

== Is Bushfan template allowed on my userpage? ==

I added a lot of userboxes to my userpage, and among them was one of "this user supports GWB." Assuming it's a holdover from this wiki's earlier days, as I know that he is loathed by MAGA, I just wanted to ask if you're okay that I decided to add to my user page & that it's not intended to be an insult to Trump supporters.

Userbox refers to how he was my childhood president, there's photo of him with Chick-Fil-A founder, he gave Fred Rogers a presidential award, friends with Michael W. Smith, was openly supportive and empowered Christian music at the time. [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 11:52, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:If you want to be identified with the [[Republican establishment]], the [[Uniparty]], the corrupt [[Biden DOJ]], [[Russiagate]] scammers, the [[military industrial complex]], [[globalist]]s, warmongers and supporters of [[Ukrainian Nazi]]s, sure, go ahead. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:40, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
::A shame that others will automatically assume association from a quick glance, but you do have a point there. The crazy thing is that I found a user box for people who support Obama [[Template:User Obama2|here]], so I take it's the risk of one exercising their right to say what or who they support, but to keep in mind of how the average person here will view them or challenge them. [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 17:32, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::Splits have emerged in both parties since the Clinton and Bush eras which are not readily apparent to people on either side of the line, in addition to recognition of a [[uniparty]] that is hostile to voters of both parties. The Dems have become the party of war, Wall Street, and the military industrial complex, and the GOP has become the party of workers and the common man. Both party's establishments seek to isolate [[populist]] sentiments among their voters. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:24, August 3, 2023 (EDT)

== Game data allowed? ==

Is word-for-word text from video games (e.g. quotes said by a character) and other sources (like official bios of another character) allowed on this website? those don't have a license attached to them, but I'd assume the closest to them are the respective copyright holders, who add the bios or the quotes themselves [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 09:32, August 5, 2023 (EDT)
:I would assume in most cases it would be okay, provided the language is cleaned up to meet our family friendly guidelines. We may have to see a few examples to see what you have in mind and if any objections arise. Thanks. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 16:59, August 7, 2023 (EDT)

== Length of the early church services ==

Below is the information I promised you about the length of the early church services:

*[https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/what-was-a-church-service-like-in-the-second-century/ What Was a Church Service Like in the Second Century?] (Mass/service lasted 3 hours and congregants stood most of the service) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 19:07, August 8, 2023 (EDT)

2023-07-29T18:25:37Z

Editor123: