Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Creation Museum

2007-05-29T17:24:17Z

Felix: /* "Demonstrate" versus "show," "illustrate," "present" */

I'm a big fan of the creation museum and Ken Ham but does this really belong in a encyclopedia?
<blockquote>
''"Ken Ham will defend the Museum against these criticisms on The FOX News Channel’s TV program The O’Reilly Factor on 28th May"''
</blockquote>

:Oh, come on, it won't last more than a day. Someone will quote was was said tomorrow. Give me a break...--[[User:AvengingAngel|AvengingAngel]] 17:35, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

::I'm just not sure whether the page is intended to be a announcement board of AGI events... Remember (as I'm sure you know) this is a encyclopedia.--[[User:Tash|Tash]] 17:41, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

:::OK if I'd left out that last bit, the other section would probably have got zapped. This way, I layed down a marker for someone else to follow tomorrow. I am trying to be even handed here.--[[User:AvengingAngel|AvengingAngel]] 17:44, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

Well... the fill in for O'Reilly really didn't let Ken Ham say that much.... The only really useful museum fact from the interview/mini debate was that the museum had over 4,000 visitors today.--[[User:Tash|Tash]] 21:23, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

I'm changing "evolutionist Lawrence Krauss" to "physicist Lawrence Krauss." Kraus's main focus of research and teaching is physics. I'm adding a link to his faculty page as supporting documentation. Outside of academia, he's probably best-known for writing a book about Star Trek. He's written a little about evolutionary biology in the popular press, and he debated a young earth creationist at Case maybe five years ago, but he's still a physicist by trade and reputation.

Clarification: Labeling Krauss as an "evolutionist" is both redundant and deceptive. It is redundant because Krauss's quoted comments make it very clear he favors biological evolution to young earth creationism. It is deceptive because it makes it looks like Krauss specializes in the study of evolution.--[[User:All Fish Welcome|All Fish Welcome]] 00:32, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:Is his main argument against the Creation Museum based upon evolution or physics? I am guessing he is more concerned about the conclusions of the Creation Museum in biology than in physics. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 00:42, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

=="Demonstrate" versus "show," "illustrate," "present"==
I changed "demonstrate" to "illustrate" in the sentence
:The exhibits are designed to illustrate that the planet is just a few thousand years old and that man and dinosaurs once coexisted
"Demonstrate" means "1. To show clearly and deliberately; manifest: demonstrated her skill as a gymnast; demonstrate affection by hugging. 2. To show to be true by reasoning or adducing evidence; prove: demonstrate a proposition. 3. To present by experiments, examples, or practical application; explain and illustrate: demonstrated the laws of physics with laboratory equipment."
Very few museum exhibits of any kind demonstrate anything. Certainly a diorama that shows humans and dinosaurs coexisting does not demonstrate that they coexisted. Nor does a case of replicas of skeletons arranged in succession [http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent/humanorigins/ Hall of Human Evolution] at the American Museum of Natural History "demonstrate" that humans evolved, nor does an orrery "demonstrate" that the planets move around the sun.
Exhibits "show" or "illustrate" or "present..." or "exhibit." They don't "demonstrate." [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 05:23, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

*Thanks. Fair enough for me. Now please demonstate your superlative editing skills by actually adding something about the place, rather than concentrating on debunking quotes, okay? ;-) --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 05:55, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

::Point taken. Uh, I haven't added anything useful to the article, but '''I''' didn't have anything to do with any debunking quotations, either... the edit I made a few minutes ago is the last edit I'll make to this particular sentence. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 13:18, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

sorrrrry, should have read this before I waded in, ooops. Will probably get reverted. Reminder to self. <Always Read the talk page>.--[[User:Felix|Felix]] 13:14, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

"The exhibits illustrate that the planet is just a few thousand years old" means that the exhibits prove it.

"The exhibits are designed to show that the planet is just a few thousand years old" means that there is a purpose behind the exhibit.

"The purpose of the exhibits is to convince us that the planet is just a few thousand years old" clarifies the purpose and does not comment on whether they work.

"The exhibits are an attempt to convince visitors to the museum that the planet is just a few thousand years old" is much more near the truth, as many may not be convinced.

Take your pick
--[[User:Felix|Felix]] 13:24, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Creation Museum

2007-05-29T17:14:23Z

Felix: /* "Demonstrate" versus "show," "illustrate," "present" */

I'm a big fan of the creation museum and Ken Ham but does this really belong in a encyclopedia?
<blockquote>
''"Ken Ham will defend the Museum against these criticisms on The FOX News Channel’s TV program The O’Reilly Factor on 28th May"''
</blockquote>

:Oh, come on, it won't last more than a day. Someone will quote was was said tomorrow. Give me a break...--[[User:AvengingAngel|AvengingAngel]] 17:35, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

::I'm just not sure whether the page is intended to be a announcement board of AGI events... Remember (as I'm sure you know) this is a encyclopedia.--[[User:Tash|Tash]] 17:41, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

:::OK if I'd left out that last bit, the other section would probably have got zapped. This way, I layed down a marker for someone else to follow tomorrow. I am trying to be even handed here.--[[User:AvengingAngel|AvengingAngel]] 17:44, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

Well... the fill in for O'Reilly really didn't let Ken Ham say that much.... The only really useful museum fact from the interview/mini debate was that the museum had over 4,000 visitors today.--[[User:Tash|Tash]] 21:23, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

I'm changing "evolutionist Lawrence Krauss" to "physicist Lawrence Krauss." Kraus's main focus of research and teaching is physics. I'm adding a link to his faculty page as supporting documentation. Outside of academia, he's probably best-known for writing a book about Star Trek. He's written a little about evolutionary biology in the popular press, and he debated a young earth creationist at Case maybe five years ago, but he's still a physicist by trade and reputation.

Clarification: Labeling Krauss as an "evolutionist" is both redundant and deceptive. It is redundant because Krauss's quoted comments make it very clear he favors biological evolution to young earth creationism. It is deceptive because it makes it looks like Krauss specializes in the study of evolution.--[[User:All Fish Welcome|All Fish Welcome]] 00:32, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:Is his main argument against the Creation Museum based upon evolution or physics? I am guessing he is more concerned about the conclusions of the Creation Museum in biology than in physics. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 00:42, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

=="Demonstrate" versus "show," "illustrate," "present"==
I changed "demonstrate" to "illustrate" in the sentence
:The exhibits are designed to illustrate that the planet is just a few thousand years old and that man and dinosaurs once coexisted
"Demonstrate" means "1. To show clearly and deliberately; manifest: demonstrated her skill as a gymnast; demonstrate affection by hugging. 2. To show to be true by reasoning or adducing evidence; prove: demonstrate a proposition. 3. To present by experiments, examples, or practical application; explain and illustrate: demonstrated the laws of physics with laboratory equipment."
Very few museum exhibits of any kind demonstrate anything. Certainly a diorama that shows humans and dinosaurs coexisting does not demonstrate that they coexisted. Nor does a case of replicas of skeletons arranged in succession [http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent/humanorigins/ Hall of Human Evolution] at the American Museum of Natural History "demonstrate" that humans evolved, nor does an orrery "demonstrate" that the planets move around the sun.
Exhibits "show" or "illustrate" or "present..." or "exhibit." They don't "demonstrate." [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 05:23, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

*Thanks. Fair enough for me. Now please demonstate your superlative editing skills by actually adding something about the place, rather than concentrating on debunking quotes, okay? ;-) --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 05:55, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

sorrrrry, should have read this before I waded in, ooops. Will probably get reverted. Remider to self. <Always Read the talk page>.--[[User:Felix|Felix]] 13:14, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Creation Museum

2007-05-29T17:12:03Z

Felix: attempt to steer a middle line.

[[Image:CMpix1.JPG|thumb|300px|The front of the Creation Museum while under construction in 2005.]]
The Creation Museum is a multi- million dollar museum in the United States designed to promote [[Young Earth Creationism]]. It opened its doors to the public on May 28, 2007.

The museum presents a literal interpretation of [[Genesis]] in the origin of universe and life. The exhibits are designed to persuade viewers that the planet is just a few thousand years old and that man and dinosaurs once coexisted. The enterprise is supported by [[Ken Ham]], creator of the group [http://www.answersingenesis.org/ Answers in Genesis].

There has been some controversy since the enterprise was announced with physicist Lawrence Krauss<ref>[http://www.phys.cwru.edu/faculty/index.php?krauss Lawrence Krauss, Faculty Page]</ref>, Director of the Center for Education and Research in Cosmology and Astrophysics at Case Western Reserve University, stating that the museum is both a "fraud" and "hypocritical" because it:
"... repeatedly misrepresents the process and results of science and distorts the scientific record. Yet in every case it takes advantage of the technical wizardry of science to get its point across, with a series of dazzling animatronic displays and explanations" <ref> Kraus, L, 2007 quoted in "Museum of Misinformation", New Scientist, May 26th 2007, p24 </ref>

Ken Ham debated the issues raised by the Museum on The FOX News Channel’s TV program The O’Reilly Factor on 28th May <ref> http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/05/28/museum-news-oreilly </ref>

==references==
<references/>

Talk:Vegetarianism

2007-05-29T16:44:08Z

Felix: /* comment on edit by Rschlafly */

While I'll agree that being vegetarian is wrong because steak is so right ... how can you possibly say that vegetarians are evil?? I seriously hope this is a joke. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 11:39, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

I vehemently deny that porco-pesco-ovo-lacto-vegetarians do not exist. For I am one such.

I'd like to see a small discussion of the dietary habits of Seventh Day Adventists here. I don't know enough about it, so I don't know what to say. (I don't know if they are obliged to eat vegetarian, but I do know that it's common among them.) Also, if this article mentions the Bible forbidding eating pork products, it should also talk about other things forbidden in Leviticus--shellfish, certain birds and other animals. However, as these laws still allow eating beef, chicken, certain fish, and other animals, I'm not really sure it belongs in an article about vegetarianism. I may fix this later. [[User:Kolbe|Kolbe]] 05:12, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

I made a few corrections. example: Milk is a product, not a byproduct, of a cow. A Pesco-ovo-lacto veggie is also considered just a pescetarian. [[User:Rocksteel|Rocksteel]] 02:27, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

Huh? Jesus a vegetarian/vegan or a raw foodist? Evidence in the Bible? I can think of one instance where he is clearly said to have eaten fish (after his resurrection, appearing to the apostles in the upper room) and several where it's implied (the Passover supper and the multiplication of the loaves and fishes, for example). Only raw foodists are pacifist or compassionate? I'm going to delete this reference. [[User:Kolbe|Kolbe]] 03:06, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

I don't think Jehovah's witnesses are obliged to be vegetarian. I once asked one why they disagreed with blood transfusions, and she said it's because it says somewhere in the Bible that thou shalt not drink blood (or something to that effect). I then asked if she was vegetarian, and she said no...
Adventists refrain from vices like drinking coffee and smoking, but I think they eat meat. [[User:Emmeline|Emmeline]] 12:50, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

:Why "think" when you can "google"? ;-)
:*For more than 130 years Seventh-day Adventists (SDAs) have practiced a vegetarian dietary lifestyle because of their belief in the wholistic nature of people. [http://www.andrews.edu/NUFS/veggiediet.html] --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 09:58, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:: Just an FYI, from personal experience, this is not true of all SDAs. I was friends with a family that were SDA in high school, and from hanging out with them and attending a few of their church functions I can attest that they were not vegetarians. --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 10:05, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:Thanks, you saved me from "unthinkingly" putting in the first quote I googled! :-) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:19, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

== comment on edit by Rschlafly ==

There is no evidence that vegetarians need to take any dietary supplements, other than B12 in some circumstances (Elderly, pregnant women, very small children), even then this vitamin can be found naturally:

"Fortified cereals are one of the few sources of vitamin B12 from plants, and are an important dietary source of vitamin B12 for strict vegetarians and vegans. Strict vegetarians and vegans '''who do not consume foods that come from plants that are fortified with vitamin B12''' need to consider taking a dietary supplement that contains vitamin B12 and should discuss the need for vitamin B12 supplements with their physician". http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12.asp--[[User:Felix|Felix]] 12:16, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:[[Henry Thoreau]] famously lived a year and a half on food he grew himself, as described in ''[[Walden]]''. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:18, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

: Are you trying to distinguish eating a vitamin-fortified cereal from taking a vitamin supplement? I don't see the point. Either way, it is a vitamin supplement. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:25, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

--------------

We should be clear, here: these are issues with a '''vegan''' diet only. You can get B12 from dairy sources. The issues appear to be:

'''Vitamin B-12'''. Vegans can get vitamin B-12, needed to produce red blood cells and maintain normal nerve function, from enriched breakfast cereals, fortified soy products, '''nutritional yeast''', or supplements.

'''Calcium'''. We all need calcium for strong teeth and bones. You can get calcium from '''dark green vegetables (spinach, bok choy, broccoli, collards, kale, turnip greens), sesame seeds, almonds, red and white beans, soy foods, dried figs, blackstrap molasses''', and calcium-fortified foods like fruit juices and breakfast cereals.

'''Vitamin D'''. Vitamin D helps our bodies absorb calcium and is '''synthesized by exposing skin to sunlight'''. But vitamin D deficiency can occur, especially if you don't spend a lot of time outside. Vitamin D is not found in plant foods; best dietary sources are fortified dairy products. Vegans can also get vitamin D from fortified foods, including vitamin D-fortified soy milk or rice milk.

'''Protein'''. Not getting enough protein is a concern when switching to a vegetarian diet. Protein needs can be met while following a vegan diet if you consume adequate calories and eat a variety of plant foods, including good plant sources of protein such as '''soy, other legumes, nuts, and seeds'''.

'''Iron'''. Iron from plant sources is less easily absorbed than iron in meat. This lower bioavailability means that iron intake for vegetarians should be higher than the RDA for nonvegetarians. Vegetarian food sources of iron include soy foods like '''soybeans, tempeh, and tofu; legumes like lentils and chickpeas'''; and fortified cereals. Iron absorption is enhanced by vitamin C.

'''Zinc'''. Zinc plays a role in many key body functions, including immune system response, so it's important to get enough of it, which vegans can do by eating '''nuts, legumes, miso and other soy products, pumpkin and sunflower seeds, tahini, wheat germ, and whole-grain breads and cereals'''.

'''Riboflavin'''. This B vitamin, which is important for growth and red blood cell production, can be found in '''almonds, mushrooms, broccoli, figs, sweet potatoes, soybeans, wheat germ''', and fortified cereals and enriched bread.

Source: http://kidshealth.org/teen/food_fitness/nutrition/vegan.html

The stuff that I have enboldened, shows that you '''can''' get all you need by a judicious choice of vegetables.--[[User:Felix|Felix]] 12:44, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Fritter

2007-05-29T16:26:53Z

Felix: /* Fritter Cakes */

A '''Fritter''' is an fried, adible accompaniment to a meal, and comes in two distinct forms.

==Battered Fritters==

[[Image:Mars1.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The ultimate fritter - the deep fried Mars Bar! A delicacy; but not one for the faint hearted, or those on calorie-controlled diets.]]

The first type of ''fritter'' is an edible object which has been coated in batter and deep fried.

In the [[UK]], such ''fritters'' may be purchased form a [[Chip shop]] along with [[Battered fish]], [[Chips]] and [[Mushy peas]]. Alternative names for ''fritters'' in different parts of the UK are:
* Scallops (Merseyside Region)
* Scones (North East of England)
* Batch Cakes (Northern Lancashire)

Other notable types of fritter are:
* [[Spam]] Fritters - proprietary brand of spiced ham
* [[Banana]] Fritters - Normally the whole banana is coated in batter and deep fried
* [[Pineapple]] Fritters - cored pineapple, cut into rings
* [[Apple]] Fritters - cored apple, cut into rings.
* [[Onion rings]] - sliced onion separated into individual rings.
In [[Glasgow]], it is possible to obtain almost any food, deep fried in this manner. Specialities there include the deep fried [[Mars Bar]] and deep fried [[Pizza]].

The batter-frying technique was introduced into Japan by the Portuguese and Spanish in the late 16th century and the [[tempura]] that developed involved a mixed fry of shrimps, herbs, and vegetables. Fritto misto is an Italian dish of bits of meat, seafood, and vegetables dipped in batter and fried in olive oil. A specialty dish of various local cuisines is the flower fritter, using daylilies, roses, violets, acacia, elder blow, and squash blossoms.

==Fritter Cakes==

A different type of fritter occurs in the cuisines of many countries: the French beignets, Italian bigne, and Greek loukoumades are small cakes made with batter mixed with and another (main) ingredient and fried. The Indian pakora is a savoury deep-fried cake containing bits of cauliflower, eggplant, or other vegetables. Beignets are common in Louisianna especially during Mardi Gras. In other parts of the [[United States]], "corn fritters" and "apple fritters" are favorites, and New England clam cakes, Maryland crab cakes, and Philadelphia scrapple are essentially varieties of this type of fritter.

'''Fritter''' is also the name for a type of doughnut, with apple flavoured ones being the most popular.

==Origins of the name:==

The word ''fritter'' derives from the Latin ''frictura'' or ''frictus'' (past participle of ''frigere'', meaning ''to roast''). This has come down to us via the Anglo-French ''friture'' and the Middle English ''fritour''

[[Category:Food]]

Talk:Vegetarianism

2007-05-29T16:16:17Z

Felix: comment on edit by Rschlafly

User talk:RSchlafly

2007-05-29T16:14:28Z

Felix: Edit to Vegetarianism

good edit to Einstein article.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 00:14, 9 March 2007 (EST)

Thanks Roger. Whatever I can do to help, let me know. Are there any plans for coordinated projects similiar to like they have over in, you know, that other place? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:48, 9 March 2007 (EST)

==Review==
Roger, here's some material you may wish to review regarding "expansion of due process", [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Fourteenth_Amendment&diff=21204&oldid=14972]

:''it can be argued that the legislative intent of the Amendment was especially to grow with the times, which it certainly has done.'' [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:37, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

== Gospel of Thomas ==

It is true that the [[Gospel of Thomas]] is not part of the Bible, and not recognized outside the Coptic Christian church; I simply wanted to clarify that it nevertheless is a valuable source of information about early Christian beliefs, and that many Christians today do find great value in it. [[User:Boethius|Boethius]] 15:33, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

: It is my understanding that Christians have historically regarded these apocryphal gospels as being tainted with heresy. Yes, fascinating, but fascinating in the way that heresy is fascinating. I didn't want the Thomas entry to imply that Thomas is a good source of Christian beliefs. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 23:04, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

::Thanks for your reply. I have amended the entry, both on the [[Gospels]] and the [[Gospel of Thomas]], to make this more explicitly clear.

::[[User:Boethius|Boethius]] 17:42, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

== reply ==

I banned him because 3 times in row he posted to my userpage the same cross examination type garbage much of which (if not all) was unrelated to the article in question. I warned him to stop though and he ignored me. Three strikes and your out.

Secondly, are you related to Aschlafly? [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 17:36, 15 March 2007 (EDT)conservative

: Yes, Aschlafly is my brother. I had nothing to do with creating Conservapedia; I first learned about it from reading blogs. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 17:56, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

That is wrong! your own brother didnt tell you! Mr. Schlafly! how could you! j/k :) welcome aboard. --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 17:58, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

== [[Scientology]] ==

Hello RSchlafly. In your recent modification to the article, [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Scientology&diff=43627&oldid=43502], you introduced that "not everyone considers it to be a religion". But that would be true of any religion that can be named, some people, somewhere, will consider it to not be a 'true' religion. Are we really trying to present such value judgements to our readers? Can't we simply be brief and to the point and inform readers, then let readers do as they like with their information? If we remain conservative and steadfast and present good, clean information, clear of bias and potential confusions or criticsm, our readers are better served, don't you think ? Yes, there are controversial issues the Church of Scientology has involved itself in but are those actually necessary to a brief, clear description of the religion? Can we discuss, please ? [[User:Terryeo|Terryeo]] 14:41, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

: I was understating the controversy. I think that it is fair to say that most people do not consider Scientology a religion. IRS did not, until just a few years ago. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 14:50, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

:: Okay. How does one explain news items like this one [http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/16921716.htm] ("Scientology Religion") in the Kansas City Star ? Or the 7000+ hits a person gets by googling "Scientology" (its religous locations) at google maps? Or the many website pages about the Scientology Religion? There is nothing like that for a "Scientology Cult" search, with the exception of thousands of pages of criticsm. If an organization presents itself as a religion, is accepted by most governments as a religion, is presented in newspapers as a religion, then shouldn't we present it as a religion, too ? On the other hand, if an article is to be large, then other points of view could be presented ? But if small, then why not as direct and simple as possible ? [[User:Terryeo|Terryeo]] 17:14, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

:: I did your test, and I found 113,000 google hits for "scientology religion", and 168,000 hit for "scientology cult". This does indeed suggest that more people call it a cult than a religion. But that is just one controversy. Care to say anything about psychotherapy? The Xenu story? Battles over leaks of the OT documents? [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 17:42, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

::: Sure, I'll talk with you about anything you like. psychotherapy sucks, no one who knows the myth talks, the Church defends itself vigorously in court. The critics are loud, the critics can publish cheaply. A simplicity of the situation exists, but how can a person view the simplicity, there's the question, would you say? [[User:Terryeo|Terryeo]] 09:39, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

==McCarthy==
Much of the material [[User:PF Fox]] is "obsolete and deprecated", as per WP's new WP:ATTFAQ' I fought for this along time ago. Plus there is evidence of trolling on the talk page, as I forecasted. [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Joseph_McCarthy&diff=next&oldid=32278] I would propose a roll back to my version, with whatever material you may wish to save from the recent editing, and then Page Protection. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:58, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

: My inclination is to start a section titled, "Criticism of McCarthy's methods", and start it by saying: "It is often alleged that McCarthy's methods were irresponsible, inhumane, and reckless. Here are some examples of where his committee supposedly ruined lives." Then let PF Fox put in his most egregious examples, as long as they are factual. You want to do it? [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 16:04, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

::I've protected the page. That sounds like a good idea. Let's have PF Fox place his proposed language on the Talk page while I work on completing the Venona materials. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 16:15, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Newton ==
I have copied the conversation below onto the [[Isaac Newton]] talk page. I think it makes more sense to have it there for future reference. If we need to continue the conversation, let's do so over there. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 07:53, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

I bet Isaac Newton cared about his title of "sir." Not to split hairs. Publicly evaluating a person's legacy based on your opinion of it is a bad idea, and sounds like opinion forbidden by the Commandments.-[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 01:02, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

: Sure, Newton may have cared, in the way that people care about honorary degrees and awards. Maybe he got some privileges from it, I don't know. But nobility status carries no weight with the typical American reader of Conservapedia. Nobody knows what Newton did to get that title, or why the title should make anyone deserving of any respect. It is just stupid and meaningless.
: Newton was a great man, and I am not putting him down. He is great for what he did, not because he was friends with some silly king or however he got the title. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 01:11, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
:'Sir' is a title of respect. Not placing it would be equivalent to removing Doctor from the name of those holding a doctorate. [[User:Geo.plrd|Geo.]] 01:13, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

:: It is only a title of respect among fans of British nobility. Besides, encyclopedias do not normally list people with doctorates under the title "Doctor". [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 01:43, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

:::Okay, can the bold text at least show that he was a peer? [[User:Geo.plrd|Geo.]] 01:50, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

:::: I assume that you are joking. I don't know what a peer is, except that my dictionary says that it has something to do with British nobility. I think that the average American has very low respect for British nobility. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 01:59, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
:A Peer of the Realm is a member of the British nobility. [[User:Geo.plrd|Geo.]] 03:34, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

:"Nobody knows what Newton did to get that title, or why the title should make anyone deserving of any respect. It is just stupid and meaningless." ... "I don't know what a peer is, except that my dictionary says that it has something to do with British nobility. I think that the average American has very low respect for British nobility." Are you serious? You don't know what Newton did that resulted in his title? I'd guess Calculus? Maybe Gravity? That deserves a heck of a lot of respect. I don't think we need to know the ins and outs of honorary titles in Britain to understand the basics of this one. According to Answers in Genesis, [http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v12/i3/newton.asp] "His country officially recognized his work in 1705 when he became the first person to receive a knighthood for scientific achievement." Surely this is important enough to include his "Sir"? --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 19:51, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

:: Yes, I am serious. No American has any respect for British nobility titles. Apparently you don't know how Newton got the title either, because you are just guessing. You have a source that says that it was for "his work". Okay, that narrows it a little bit. It wasn't for his relatives. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 20:06, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

:::I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood my comment, as you misunderstood [[User:Geo.plrd|Geo.]]'s use of the term "peer". I guess we need to back up a bit. In Britian, knighthoods are given for exceptional achievement or service to the nation, much like the USA gives the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal. Newton was the first to be made a knight for scientific achievement rather than prowess on the battlefield. (From doesgodexist.org: "In 1705, Queen Anne knighted him, Sir Isaac Newton. It was the first knighthood for scientific discoveries rather than deeds on the battlefield or in government." [http://www.doesgodexist.org/NovDec01/IsaacNewtonAndGodsLawOfGravity.html]) Thus Newton was given his title for his *body of work*, which of course included topics like gravity and calculus. I understand that *you* have no respect for such awards. Indeed, there is some controversy over modern versions, even in Britian (see [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/23/world/main590022.shtml]). However, I think it's simply not true to say that *No* American has any respect for British nobility titles - see [[User:Robledo|Robledo]]'s examples below. Given that Newton's achievements were so great as to be awarded an honor that had previously been given only for military prowess, I think the "Sir" is worth keeping. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 21:28, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

Honorary knighthoods (accepted & thus I'm guessing respected...)

* George Bush
* Ronald Reagan
* Colin Powell
* General Norman Schwarzkopf
* Bob Hope

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1091938.stm

Any more sweepingly daft generalisations to make? :P --[[User:Robledo|Robledo]] 20:16, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

: No, you've made it for me. I've never heard any American call any of those men "sir". [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 21:01, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

Naturally....none of them are British citizens. Read the [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1091938.stm source], son....third paragraph. *sighs* --[[User:Robledo|Robledo]] 21:26, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

::That's because it is inappropriate for an American to use such a title.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1091938.stm] Newton, however, was not American, thus the use of the title is appropriate. I know this stuff is complicated. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 21:28, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

::: Exactly. To put it in context. "Bono" will never be "Sir Bono" (aside from the fact that his real name is Paul Hewson) because he is not a British citizen. So he can never be a "Sir". However, Newton ''was'' a British citizen, or a subject of the queen (or king), if you will. So he should be referred to by his correct title. [[User:Airdish|Airdish]] 21:33, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

:: It's a simple matter of respect. "Sir" is his title in his native country and therefore should be the title that he is addressed by whenever he is addressed, wherever he is addressed. Aside from that argument, he is known the world over as "Sir Isaac Newton".[[User:Airdish|Airdish]] 21:08, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

My students are fond of this song about Sir Issac - it's in MP3 format. [http://www.acme.com/jef/singing_science/newton-160.mp3]--[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 21:32, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

== Theory ==

I would like to argue [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Scientific_Theory&diff=64382&oldid=63053 this] edit. It is an extremely important distinction, because scientifically, nothing can ever really be proven. Gravity, relativity, etc. are all still theories, but are backed up with massive amounts of evidence, and are used regularly as facts. In any usage outside science, "theory" usually means a "hunch", or unsubstantiated guess. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 03:05, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

: I just don't think that it is true that usage of "theory" outside science is significantly different from its usage in science. Do you have any source for that? Theories have varying levels of substantiation, both inside and outside science. I think that the distinction is completely bogus and misleading.
: Why is this so important, anyway? The subject of what can be proven is another topic. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 03:23, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
::Any self-respecting scientist would never use the term theory to mean an unsubstantiated guess. Theories do not have varying levels of substantiation, only the true definition and the misuse by everyone else. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]][[User_talk:ColinR|talk]] 03:34, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

::: That is just not true. Physicists use the term "String Theory", even tho it is just an unsubstantiated guess. Where is the evidence that scientists use the word "theory" differently from others? [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 03:49, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

:::: Regarding string theory, it has a large amount of "evidence" backing it up. That doesn't mean it's true, but it's certainly not an unsubstantiated guess. Regarding how scientists use the word differently, ask anybody with any sort of involvement in science, it's considered common knowledge that a scientific theory is different than a "guess". --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 03:51, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

::::: No, there is no evidence for String Theory. The disputed section has no cited source, and is contrary to common knowledge. Are you just giving your opinion, or can you cite a source? [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 04:04, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
It's not a disputed fact that theory in the scientific community is not the same as a hypothesis. Sorry. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]][[User_talk:ColinR|talk]] 04:08, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

: Correct, that point is not under dispute. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 04:25, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
:: No, it is definitely not under dispute. A theory in scientific terms can come close to a fact, just like evolution. Actually, evolution is a fact. Do you claim there is no such thing as microevolution?

== Theory II ==
Is there a reason for [[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Theory&diff=next&oldid=64081]] this edit? What was objectionable? --[[User:Letusratiocinate|Letusratiocinate]] 04:16, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

I apologize for the ad hominem attack, but there is nothing disputed about what is said in those entries. And protecting articles only hurts the site. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]][[User_talk:ColinR|talk]] 04:19, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

: Those entries certainly are disputed. I disputed them on the Talk pages, and here. The disputed material has no cited sources. I only protected the page because of the removal of the "disputed" tag. If you are right and I am wrong, then you should be able to give some evidence on the Talk page or here. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 04:37, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
::There is no disputing the difference between common usage of theory and the scientific meaning. Look it up in a dictionary and you'll see theory is defined as both. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]][[User_talk:ColinR|talk]] 04:40, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

::: The disputed section says that a common speech theory is different from a scientific theory, with the former being an "unsubstantiated guess" and the latter having to be "well-supported and accepted". My dictionaries don't say any of those things, and they don't reflect any popular or scientific usage to my knowledge. I'd be happy to use a dictionary definition, but if you want something else, then you should provide some support for it. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 04:58, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
::::Look at webster's online. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]][[User_talk:ColinR|talk]] 05:13, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

::::: I looked at Merriam-Webster's, American Heritage, Compact Oxford English, Encarta, and a couple of others. They all disagree with you. You are promoting the oddball definition, so you find support for it. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 05:21, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

A theory, as defined by Merriam-Webster:

1 : abstract thought : SPECULATION
2 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action
3 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <the wave ''theory'' of light>
4 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption :CONJECTURE

As you can see, definition 3 is different than the others. This is because a ''scientific theory'' must follow what is known as the ''scientific method''. The Scientific method is "principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses". Of course, gravity, relativity, the theory of light, etc. are all unproven, but they are all backed up by massive amounts of evidence. A scientific theory is supported by evidence, though in modern usage outside of science, "theory" is synonymous with "guess". --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 15:29, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

: Your definition shows that your last sentence is wrong on both counts. A scientific theory does ''not'' have to be supported by evidence. In modern usage outside of science, "theory" is ''not'' synonymous with "guess". I am tempted to add a paragraph explaining this point. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 17:17, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

== [[Theory of Relativity/draft]] ==

Please stop. Special and general relativity are separate theories. [[User:Linus M.|Liπus the Turbogeek]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 14:32, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

: What do you mean by that? They are certainly closely related, conceptually and historically. Putting them in separate sections already implies differences. Saying that they are separate without any explanation of the difference is just stupid and misleading. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 14:38, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

::GR describes gravity, SR describes objects relative to each other. [[User:Linus M.|Liπus the Turbogeek]]([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]]) 07:06, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

::: Yes, but they are not separate. SR is just GR without the gravity. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:12, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Wrong, dude. Please stop pretending that you and Andy are experts on everything. Andy's obviously not even an expert on theories of constitutional interpretation. Nor are you an expert on physics. Anyways, special relativity deals with time & length dilation and the [[Lorentz Transformation]]. GR is an explanation of gravity and spacetime curvature. Completely different except the name.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 12:20, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

: No, I am not wrong. I can see from your comments that you know very little about either subject. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 13:52, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

::These are difficult subjects, and I myself don't understand either one well. I can do the math of the Lorentz transformation - where fast things get heavy, though.

::We need to make this subject accessible to our readership. If this means a simple (basic?) article which mentions both ideas, that will be a good start. We can use the {{tl|main}} template (or something like it: {spinoff} or {more detail}) to refer the reader to an in-depth treatment.

::Who wants to volunteer for any part of this? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 14:00, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

:Roger is correct; not only are GR and SR not 'separate,' SR is a limiting case of GR, just as Newtonian mechanics is a limiting case of SR. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 14:29, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

::How's that work? I guess I don't understand it.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 17:32, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

::: I'll try to put in an explanation if no one else does. Currently, there are two relativity pages, and both need a lot of work. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 18:15, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

:::GR generally operates in curved spacetime; in SR spacetime is always flat. But if you plug a flat spacetime into the equations of GR, SR is what falls out. The connection is not only quite deep, but very useful too; in any smooth, curved space, one can always pick a sufficiently small patch such that curvature can be safely neglected. In practical terms, this means that any observer can always choose to work within a region of spacetime small enough to make SR an arbitrarily good approximation. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 04:07, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::: Yes, that is correct. SR approximates GR in the way that a tangent line approximates a curve. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 13:10, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::: They were developed in very different ways and at very different times '''and''' they are taught in very different ways and at very different times in university. They deserve completely separate articles (I am educated to graduate level on both). [[User:Airdish|Airdish]] 17:04, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::::I believe the latest version of the draft is mine. I'm knowledgeable of Special Relativity and I was trying to explain it in as basic terms as possible. I don't know much about General Relativity other than what I've picked up from other people. However RSchlafly I hope you realise that gravity is a fairly complex force which adds a lot of extra levels of difficulty onto Special Relativity. If anything they should be given different sections simply because they are so abominably different in scale. [[User:MatteeNeutra|MatteeNeutra]] 17:11, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::::: Yes, Special Relativity is simpler. That is why it is called "special". I favor one article titled Relativity that tries to give a concise explanation. There are many textbooks on the subject if the reader really wants the full course. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 17:41, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::: Personally, I'd favour Relativity as a very short concise "these are the principles of" style article (a sentence or two on each) with links to separate articles for each of the two theories. Also, because it is specialised, "simpler" is not the word. It is "simpler" because the maths is less hardcore, two very different things. [[User:Airdish|Airdish]] 17:54, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

== Copernicus ==

Your biased editing is an insult to the subjects you touch, to the site, and to your brother's ideals. Please defend your edits to the Copernicus article stating that those problems ''still exist in modern astronomy today'' (preposterous!) and your blatant POV articles to the Scalia article. Please use new arguments that I have not already refuted.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 13:23, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

: No, you have not refuted anything. Your edits are false, malicious, misleading, and disrupted. You do not defend what you do on the Talk pages. Please stop, or I'll have to block you.
: I did not say that those problems "still exist in modern astronomy today". Reread it. I even gave a date for resolving the parallax problem. Your change called Tycho one of "previous astronomers". That is not correct, as Tycho lived after Copernicus.
: Your changes to Scalia's article are also completely unacceptable. No encyclopedia would say that. You are trying to put words in his mouth that he never said. If you have proof that Scalia is against desegregation, then document it. Otherwise, don't say it. The article is about Scalia and what he has said and done, not about your personal speculations about what his opinions might have been in the 1950s.
: You are becoming a nuisance. Use the Talk pages to make your points. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 13:40, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

::I blocked him. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 13:42, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::: I don't know AmesG's other work. My objection is to these edits: Scalia [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Antonin_Scalia&diff=69941&oldid=69913] Copernicus [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Nicolaus_Copernicus&diff=71299&oldid=71288] Theory [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Theory&curid=7019&diff=71251&oldid=71242&rcid=73770], and to his subsequent edit wars over those edits. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 14:12, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::What's wrong with the Brahe insert? He did solve many of the problems with Copernicus' theory.--[[User:Dave3172|Dave3172]] 14:16, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::: Tycho Brahe did some important works, as did dozens of later eminent astronomers. I think that AmesG's comments were inappropriate because it is peculiar to single out Tycho in this context, Tycho was not a "previous astronomer", and Tycho did not solve any of the 3 problems that were mentioned in the previous sentence. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 14:27, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

::::*Just a little note here, a quick check of the edit history of the page reveals AmesG's edit '''''did not''''' say that Tycho was a "previous astronomer" but in fact, said the exact opposite! http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Nicolaus_Copernicus&oldid=71299 . HTH [[User:Rob Pommer| Rob Pommer]][[User_talk:Rob_Pommer|TALK]] 15:03, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::As to the other two, I think Ames could've left out the Brown v. Board part and left it at that. And most of the "Theory" part is good, except for this: " In fact, it is hard to find anyone who makes this distinction, outside those who are promoting the theory of evolution to the general public." That's a flat-out falsehood. It's also unsubstantiated and opinion, not fact.--[[User:Dave3172|Dave3172]] 14:19, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::: If the statement is "flat-out falsehood", then it should be easy to prove me wrong. Just give me a couple of URLs of pages that make the distinction. I did discuss the matter on the Talk page. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 14:36, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::::Are you serious?? If anything, the burden should be on you to prove your statement. I make that distinction all the time, b/c it'd be less than honest to tell people that the word "theory" can't be used in different ways. And again, you can't cite that claim. It should be removed.--[[User:Dave3172|Dave3172]] 15:04, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:::::: Yes, I am quite serious. If you have some evidence that I am wrong, please post it on [[Talk:Theory]]. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 15:11, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

==ACLU and Evolution==
Thanks for the revert; however, what is wrong with reverting back to my edit [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=ACLU&diff=prev&oldid=76854]. (sourced ref from Ann Coulter).
I think it is wrong for liberal editors to change sourced conservative views and replace them with their own liberal opinions (in violation of the Conservapedia Commandments). This is Conservapedia, and I don't want this to turn into Wikipedia, where the libs edit out what they don't like. They preach about free speech, including burning the flag, but they won't allow sourced comments from Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter. [[User:Crocoite|Crocoite]][[User Talk:Crocoite|talk]] 12:37, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

: If some edit of yours got lost, go ahead and put it back in. I was merely trying to revert an edit of AmesG. He removed a perfectly good quote, and inserted a sentence in a half that had 3 factual errors in it. Almost every edit of his is erroneous and destructive. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 20:22, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

== My Reply ==
A few things.
# As requested by Ed Poor, I have posted my reply to your "charges" [http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG#Why_do_you_stay.3F here]. I feel that my edits to [[Copernicus]] have been vindicated.
# In re the [[Theory]] article, Shlaf, you've been argued into a corner you can't get out of on the talk page. Please answer the comments there before claiming that you're right.
# In re the [[Antonin Scalia]] article, I never intended to imply that Scalia does not support the ''Brown'' decision. I'm sure he comes up with his own way to back it up. However, the [[Earl Warren]] opinion on ''Brown'' did rest on responsivism, which Scalia disagrees with flat out, as you have proven for me. So he disagrees with the popular reason for ''Brown'', which is '''all that I argued''', regardless of what you inferred. And you haven't disproven that thesis except to say, "Wha?! Who!??! Huh!?"
# Thank you to everyone who defended me. I appreciate it.
# I still think you can't be serious regarding the [[Theory]] article.
# Peace.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 16:41, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

No, your edits to [[Copernicus]] were entirely wrong. In fact, all of you edits have been 100% bogus. I just had to revert this edit [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=ACLU&diff=77179&oldid=77166] to [[ACLU]]. You just changed one line and managed to insert three errors. I believe that you should be blocked for persisting in making such destructive edits. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 21:53, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

: As discussed on [[talk:ACLU]], yours is a bias-laden statement that makes no pretense at neutrality. Mine is legal fact. Look it up, or read the case, if it's just not too much trouble for ya. I would be thrilled to e-mail you a PDF from Lexis so you can have a go at it. I already have.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 17:39, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

==Good delete==

Good delete on Flat Earth Society. I believe that both of those organizations, while the URLs exist, are hoaxes and do not belong on this site. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 23:19, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

: Yes, those sites are hoaxes, and so was the article. I just added an article on [[Flat Earth]]. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 00:48, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

==Pedophilic priests==

I had previously deleted that, but sysop Ed Poor wanted to try to make it into an article. Do you think it would be maybe appropriate to make a more general article called something such as "Catholic Church abuse scandal"? [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 01:40, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

: I was thinking of moving it to a more general Pedophila article, but someone deleted that. Not sure why. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 01:44, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

That could also be done. At the very least, there should be a section on the specific Catholic aspects within that article, because it was obviously a fairly significant news story. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 01:47, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

==Flat Earth==

So, are you going to explain your block of the Flat Earth page? Given that my arguments are valid and need to be addressed I would have thought that an open, and more thoughtful outcome of the situation could have arisen. Also, given that its either my version or yours, the decision to block should be made by a different sysop (i.e. not one of the involved editors!) as to whether or not the page should be blocked. [[User:MatteeNeutra|MatteeNeutra]] 11:39, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

: So tell me on the Talk page where my version is in error. I posted why your version is wrong. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 11:44, 4 April 2007 (EDT)
::Sorry, I had already posted this before I realised you had posted on the talk page! [[User:MatteeNeutra|MatteeNeutra]] 11:49, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

:::I added a lot to [[Flat Earth]] and made some comments at [[talk:Flat Earth]]. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 13:04, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

:::: Thanks. Conservapedia ought to be one place where evolutionists cannot make fun of Christians as flat earthers. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 15:14, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

== Mohammedans? ==

[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Islam&curid=1925&diff=87904&oldid=87876 Mohammedans]? Never heard of it. I guess you learn something new every day... --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 17:55, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

It's a very old fashioned term, and considered to be offensive. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 17:56, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

: Yes, it is an old-fashioned term, but it used to be extremely common and it is still in dictionaries. It fell out of favor, but I don't think that it is correct to say that it is offensive. It is no more offensive than "moslem". Some people prefer "muslim" to "moslem", but there is nothing wrong with using "moslem" or "mohammedan". [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 18:03, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

:: Moslem vs. Muslim is a trans-Atlantic distinction. As for "Mohammedan," I studied with one of the nation's best Islamicists when I was at Rice. She specifically told us never to use "Mohammedan," and if you read any formal scholarship (after 1900) on the subject, you'll learn not to do it either. May I suggest Berkey, "the Formation of Islam"? Or, if you still disagree, we might as well revert to the Sayers translation of ''Song of Roland'', and just call Muslims ''Paynims''. It has about the same pejorative meaning.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 01:24, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

::: Yes, there are those who prefer not to use the term Mohammedan, but their objection is not that it is an ethnic slur or a synonym for paynim. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:57, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

::::Those who "prefer not to use" the term are the Muslims themselves :-/ -'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 01:04, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

::::: And there are terrorists who prefer not to be called terrorists, and Moslems who prefer not to be called Moslems. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 02:37, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

::My understanding is that the reason why it is not used is because it falsely implies that Muslims worship Mohammed. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 02:38, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

::: Reasons like that are sometimes given, but they don't make much sense. Note that your reason is different from AmesG's reason. I don't think that there is any good reason. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 03:13, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

::::I suppose the #1 determinant for whether the term goes in should be whether it is, in fact, commonly used or not. I can't speak for others, but I don't hear it used. Maybe in other parts of the country the term is more common, I don't know. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 03:31, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

::::: It used to be more common. You'll find it a lot if you read old books. I would not be suggesting it if I thought that it was an ethnic slur. It is not. It literally means just a follower of Mohammad. Nothing wrong with the term. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 03:44, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

:::I think the one place I've seen it is in an old book in my church library, so that makes sense. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 03:51, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

I think it's bad because it is an ethnic slur, and insulting for the reason that MountainDew stated - it implies that Muslims worship Mohammed, which is insulting in the same way that saying that Jews worship Moses would be insulting. If you can find it in old books, guys, but not in any other books, it probably means that the term is outdated, as I've argued. I'm sure you'll find "colored" in old books describing African Americans, but I'd advise against using it in an article...-10:36, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

It is VERY offensive for muslims to be referred to as Mohammadeans, for the above reasons. They are a very adamantly monotheistic faith, and any implication that they worship a human being is considered blasphemy (and you know how they feel about that). It's like calling Christians John-ians or Luke-ians. Leave it out already. Why would you want to be so offensive. [[User:palmd001|PalMD]][[User_talk:palmd001|talk]] 10:57, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

: I don't think that Mohammedan is an ethnic slur any more than "Abrahamic religion" is an ethnic slur on Jews. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 11:19, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

::You don't think a lot of the time. Apology accepted.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 15:29, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

::: AmesG, I was not apologizing to you.
::: PalMD, calling Christians John-ians or Luke-ians is not particularly offensive. Of course, there are people who are offended by innocuous statements. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 01:04, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Since you weren't apologizing to me before, I'll accept it now.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 18:08, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

: For what? Are you a Mohammedan who doesn't like to be called a Mohammedan? [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 18:57, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

==Abortion poll==

Dear Ms Schlafly - I did quote the abortion poll correctly, and when you quoted it selectively I expanded your quotation to give details. Please check the link. My subsequent editing of your misleading statement has been reverted. I suggest altering it to the unarguable one that 62% of Americans do not want Roe v Wade to be returned. Unless I hear your reasons why you believe this to be less than factual, I will edit it to that version shortly. --[[User:Britinme|Britinme]] 16:48, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

: Your statement did not match the most recent poll on the cited page with the poll results. Yes, your statement is less than factual. Give support on the Talk page, if you wish. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 17:12, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

::The page I linked to had a whole series of polls. The two most recent polls said that 16% of the American public favored retaining unlimited rights to abortion, and 39% favored abortion being 'legal in most cases'. Of the remainder, 31% favored it being illegal in 'most' cases and 12% illegal in all cases. In other words, 55% favor it being legal in all or most cases and 43% favor it being illegal in all or most cases, with 2% unsure either way. The other poll referred to the retention of the rights granted under Roe v Wade and 62% favored this. This should be reflected in the article because as it stands the article misrepresents the facts. Please tell me why you think we should misrepresent facts clearly laid out in a neutral opinion poll. --[[User:Britinme|Britinme]] 17:37, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

::: No, I posted actual facts. I am against misrepresenting facts. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 18:27, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

== Here is something I put on my userpage. Please spread the word among your friends ==

'''ARTICLES I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WRITTEN AT CONSERVAPEDIA:'''

'''ABORTION RELATED ARTICLES:'''

*[[Abortion alternatives]]
*[[Abortion procedures]]
*[[Culture of life]]
*[[Dilatation and curettage abortion]]
*[[Dilatation and Evacuation abortion]]
*[[National Right to Life Committee]]
*[[Prostaglandin Abortion]]
*[[Partial birth abortion]]
*[[Right to life]]
*[[Right to life books]]
*[[Right to life movement]]
*[[Right to life leaders]]
*[[Saline abortion]]
*[[Suction abortion]]
*[[Sanctity of life]]
*[[Silent scream]]

[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 19:07, 9 April 2007 (EDT)conservative

==Sysop Pledge==

As my good deed of the day I am requesting that you place this template on your userpage. Participating sysops will earn my respect and gratitude. --[[User:BenjaminS|BenjaminS]] 00:05, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

{{Sysop Pledge}}

==Adultery==
Could we divide the topic of adultery into, for example, the [[Sin of adultery]] and "[[Adultery]]"? I'm not sure what the two types of infraction should be called, but it might make it easier on readers if we did a sort of division. What do you think would be best? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 20:11, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

: What's the difference between the Sin of adultery and Adultery? What's the latter, the crime? I don't really agree with the recent edits on that page, and I guess I'll say so there. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 21:31, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

== Homosexuality article ==

Hi Roger. Could you please alter the first sentences of [[Homosexuality]] in accordance with [[talk:homosexuality#attraction or activity]] or comment there? I see you altered the Biblical Prohibition section. Thanks. --[[User:Scott|Scott]] 10:15, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

==Capital punishment==

What was dubious about explaining the context of Leviticus and Deuteronomy as a covenant between the Israelis and God?

By the way, I wasn't the one who put the stupid comment about the Ten Commandments in there. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 13:50, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

== please vote for me ==

Please vote for me here: http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Request_for_Bureaucratship [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:50, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

== Why do you hate gay people so much? ==
Just curious. I'd love to know the reasons behind your "principled" disagreement.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 10:52, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

: My disagreement is with your edits, as they are frequently erroneous and destructive. It has nothing to do with you being gay or not gay. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 14:59, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

I never said I was gay or not (!?), but as someone who believes in equality & egalitarianism, I think it offends all of humanity, the level of distaste that your edits level against homosexuals.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 16:31, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

: I never said that I hate gay people. Your bigotry is noted. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 20:02, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
::Hmm, bigotry is not accepting bigotry now? (butting in where I'm not wanted) [[User:Human|Human]] 21:32, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

::: Apparently AmesG and you want to use this page for ad hominem attacks on me. You will note that AmesG does not mention any specific edits to support his attacks. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 22:22, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

i know i have no part in this, but doesnt it seem like "mr. equality and egalitarianism and tolerance" AmesG is showing an utter lack of tolerance?[[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]]

:No, AmesG asked Roger a question and he schlaflied it by avoiding the question and making a random assessment of the user. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 15:51, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

I liked this edit. [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homophobia&diff=next&oldid=140220] It's exactly what I was trying to say, but couldn't put into words. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:29, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== Question about your beliefs ==

Have you heard how they genetically alter fruit to make new fruits? I strongly disagree with this practice because it messes with the Earth the way it was created. Next it will be human cloning. This is just a stepping stone. Whats your opinion? (By the way I love your user page! It is so exciting. Mine is boring.) Thanks your friend--[[User:BushRules12|BushRules12]] 23:40, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

: I think that the genetic modifications have been for the better, so far. Human cloning is another story. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 00:25, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

== f****t==

Please do not ever use the above-referenced word in an encyclopedia article. It is an offensive and ignorant slur, and does not reflect well upon the user. Thank you. --[[User:JeffersonDarcy|JeffersonDarcy]] 14:47, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

: Why do you say that it is "ignorant"? Is it more offensive than "homophobic"? Why? [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 15:39, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

It is more offensive than "homophobic." The parallel is, "n****r" : "racist" :: "f****t" : "homophobe".-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 16:32, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

: So you say, but that is not my experience. Do you have any evidence to back up what you say? [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 16:56, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Call a gay man a "f****t" and see the effect. Ask a homosexual how they feel about that word. If you have any emotions at all, you can see why it's more offensive.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 16:57, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

:I hear black men say "nigger" frequently. I have heard homosexual man say "faggot" frequently. Both are obviously "in words". --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 17:02, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Okay, let's clarify the difference. I'm not saying it's okay to say it under any circumstances. But the generally accepted cultural convention is that someone "in" the group may use a derogatory slur, just like you can say, "yeah, I sucked on that exam," but your friend saying, "DUDE, you sucked on that exam," is not okay. That doesn't make EITHER words that are okay when used by someone outside the group, and esp. not to convey malice.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 17:03, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
::shouldnt the "homophobes" only be able to call themselves homophobes?[[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]]
NO. There is a difference. But tell you what if you don't see it, and if you don't want to be called a "homophobe," fine. I won't call you that, and I'll not use the word, if you won't use the words discussed above. This is only because I can't seem to make the difference clear to you, although it would be clear to anyone who actually is gay.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 17:06, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

: Yeah, I see the difference. You just happen to like some name-calling better than other name-calling, based on your own personal prejudices. That's all. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 00:46, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

==Revert==
Hey can you revert my user talk page? --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 14:34, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== [[Geocentric theory]] ==

Roger: Strange as it might seem, I have personally run into people who cite the [[Bible]] in support of the [[geocentric theory]] of the [[solar system]]. I'm not saying that I buy those interpretations. I am saying that there's more to that proposition than someone (like user [[User:Mmeelliissssaa|Mmeelliissssaa]]) trying to be a "wiseguy." I would say to [[User:Mmeelliissssaa|Mmeelliissssaa]] that she ought to cite her sources for any claims of "evidence advanced to support geocentrism." Then we can cite contrary evidence. But as I say--I don't think those edits really constituted subtle vandalism. I believe that the editor submitted them in good faith, and all that they need are appropriate citations.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]][[User talk:TerryH|Talk]] 12:13, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

: I don't know whether she believes that stuff or not, but even if she believes it, that is not reason enough to put it in an encyclopedia. A lot of people believe a lot of kooky things, and we can't list them all. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:25, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::I don't see why you are so opposed to the page stating that some people believe the geocentric theory. Clearly some people do believe it. --[[User:CPAdmin1|CPAdmin1]] 12:30, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::: No, it is not clear. Who? Where? How do you know that the web page is not a joke? [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:36, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::::It looks real, as does [http://www.galileowaswrong.com/ This one] --[[User:CPAdmin1|CPAdmin1]] 12:41, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: I am not going to pay the $27 to try to find out. What if someone else says the Moon is made of green cheese and cites a web site? It is not much evidence that there is any significant belief in a green cheese theory. Maybe it could be mentioned in an article on Internet scams or something like that. I did look at the work that Mmeelliissssaa referred me too, and it is not a serious piece of work. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:49, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::::::Exactly what i try to tell to creationists time to time, if 99% of biologists think creationism has no merits and is just view held by few people because of their religious beliefs, why waste time and space on encyclopedia for that. But still, most encyclopedias like Wikipedia are willing to add articles that admit that some people still believe earth to be 6000 years old. But i see Conservapedia is taking a stricter attitude here. I'm all in favour of it. [[User:Timppeli|Timppeli]] 12:57, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: What is the idea in adding joke pages (for example fixedearth) as references - I don't understand it if this site is trying to be encyclopedic one and not a joke collection!? They are parodies written about Christians. Irony and taunt. And even better joke if someone takes it as earnestly written. --[[User:Aulis Eskola|Aulis Eskola]] 13:42, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::::::Well to be fair, I thought [[YEC]] was a parody of Christian beliefs until I did some research on it. Geocentrism doesn't sound that much more implausible to me. --[[User:Sulgran|Sulgran]] 14:25, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

==Vandalism to Geocentric Theory==
You managed to cut out all of my well-researched and highly-relevant material from the article without any comment whatsoever. I consider this to be vandalism. If this behaviour continues I shall report this to a SySop. [[User:OfficerDibble]].

==Reversions==
WILL YOU DISCUSS THIS INSTEAD OF JUST UNDOING????

Peace Pact. If you want to make reversions, propose them on the Talk page. I know I have one other person who is editing who will support my point of view.

==Wiki-Conservapedia?==

Can I point out that the reason the Conservapedia was set up in the first place was that some conservative views were being sidelined by an obviously liberal organ because those views did not concur whith the majority. Your revert of the [[Geocentric Theory]] page then protection of it clearly demonstrates that the are some conservative elements who are quilty of the same crime that Wikipedia is accused of. [[User:OfficerDibble]]

I have made my points, and have to log off now. I shall attempt to reformulate these ideas in a different form. The points i am tying to make in the GeoCentric Article are twofold:
# The view of whether the earth, the sun, the moon, Ceres or for that matter any other body is a starionary object at the centre of the universe is a matter of scientific convention. The Laws of Gravity and relativity can, in principle be reformulated to ake this happen. Thsi is a sceintific FACT, not a speculation. The fact that we don't do this is a matter of convention and parsimony, due to Occam's Razor, combined with the fact that the exlanatory schema imposed by Heliocentrism has a certain elegance. i.e. it makes the math easier. David Deutsch's book confirms this position. It is a PHiliosophiucal View, therefore and not a scientific one.
#There are groups of people who hold that the Bible says that GeoCentricisnm is correct, and is supported by biblical text. An article on Geocentricism should include material about these people, their beliefs and how these are squared with current scientific evidnce.

Ypu are just removing this without discussion, and my point is that this is no way to behave. [[User:OfficerDibble]]

: You are barking up the wrong tree. The article already makes these points. I have protected the article so that any changes can be discussed on the Talk page, and to allow you to calm down. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 05:46, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

== Homophobia ==
I'd like to see a comprehensive list of specific reasons why you reverted on the talk page ASAP. --[[User:Robledo|Robledo]] 19:56, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

: I already did, before you posted your request. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 20:47, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

==[[Conservapedia:AFD Homophobia]]==
Need some support, please. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 17:59, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

==[[Agnosticism]]==
Good clarification. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 08:51, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

== Notice ==

Please read this: [[New Sysops Training Page]]

[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 21:26, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

== McCarthy article ==
I have a great deal of Senator McCarthy information that I would like to add. Can you please allow me to make edits to that page? I would be happy to do a mock-up for you to inspect prior to allowing edits of the McCarthy page. Please let me know. Thank you. --11:48, 21 May 2007 (EDT)[[User:Scorpio|Scorpio]]

: Go ahead propose something on the Talk page. My main purpose there was to make sure that the criticisms were specific and documented. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 12:09, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

::I haven't checked out the conservapedia article on McCarthy yet, but you might get a chuckle out of [[User:HeartOfGold/MythOfMcCarthyism|MythOfMcCarthyism]] in my user space. You've probably read the book, but if not, it is good. [[User:HeartOfGold|<big>HG</big>HeartOfGold]] [[User_talk:HeartOfGold|talk]] 23:08, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

== Blog ==

"''Mr. Right, It Turns Out, Does Not...''". Just wanted you to know I came across that, and got a chuckle out of it. --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 19:48, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

== Gonzales statement is not controversial ==

Hello. Regarding [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Habeas_corpus&diff=171451&oldid=171414 this]...I am the person who added that section title. However, upon reflection, I agree, that Gonzales's statement is not controversial. The implication is controversial to me, and probabably many others on the left and the right, but he is technically correct.

Habeas Corpus was such an important individual "right" (really, specified as ''privilege'' in the constitution) that it is one of the few individual rights/privileges mentioned in the Constitution. Personally, as a conservative who believes in the rule of law, I ''do'' think the Gonzales's implication is controversial, but this is my opinion, and you were right to revert it. (Mind you, I am not one to think that Habeas Corpus applies to enemy combatants held in Cuba--rather, I do fear the day they take away the right to petition for habeas corpus of U.S. citizens held by U.S. officials)...Could you imagine if Hillary decides to make use of or expand upon Gonzales's statements? [[User:HeartOfGold|<big>HG</big>HeartOfGold]] [[User_talk:HeartOfGold|talk]] 23:07, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

::You're a bit late for that--just ask Jose Padilla. Habeas Corpus is now obsolete in the USA, and the Democrats aren't too likely to be inclined to put the toy away when they get to play with it. --[[User:Gulik3|Gulik3]] 23:10, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

::: There is some controversy over whether enemy combatants have habeas corpus rights. The US Constitution is silent on the matter. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 23:20, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

::::I think the only question is whether U.S. Citizens who have been classified as enemy combatants enjoy such rights. Any foreign national, picked up and held on foreign soil--they need to seek the protection of their own country's constitution...but my opinion is a matter for discussion, not an article. [[User:HeartOfGold|<big>HG</big>HeartOfGold]] [[User_talk:HeartOfGold|talk]] 01:26, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

== Crackpot ==

I agree with point 4 removal, as it was probably redundant, but I do think we ought to re-insert some of point 3 back, in particular the bits in bold I think are important:

... when usually there is no "paradigm" in any Kuhnian sense, but merely a consensus view about a small scientific question. '''One basic philosophical failure of the crackpot is the failure to understand that "paradigms" and "paradigm shifts" are usually recognized after the fact by historians and almost never during the time of the shift''', and secondly that paradigm shifts are almost always the work of younger scientists and not of older scientists.

I will not revert the edit, but can we discuss this point?

--[[User:AvengingAngel|AvengingAngel]] 15:52, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

== Edit to Vegetarianism ==

There is no evidence that vegetarians need to take any dietary supplements, other than B12 in some circumstances (Elderly, pregnant women, very small children), even then this vitamin can be found naturally:

"Fortified cereals are one of the few sources of vitamin B12 from plants, and are an important dietary source of vitamin B12 for strict vegetarians and vegans. Strict vegetarians and vegans '''who do not consume foods that come from plants that are fortified with vitamin B12''' need to consider taking a dietary supplement that contains vitamin B12 and should discuss the need for vitamin B12 supplements with their physician". http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12.asp

This would make a better edit.--[[User:Felix|Felix]] 12:14, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Fritter

2007-05-29T15:20:46Z

Felix: extend, talk about other kinds of fritters

A '''Fritter''' is an fried, adible accompaniment to a meal, and comes in two distinct forms.

==Battered Fritters==

[[Image:Mars1.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The ultimate fritter - the deep fried Mars Bar! A delicacy; but not one for the faint hearted, or those on calorie-controlled diets.]]

The first type of ''fritter'' is an edible object which has been coated in batter and deep fried.

In the [[UK]], such ''fritters'' may be purchased form a [[Chip shop]] along with [[Battered fish]], [[Chips]] and [[Mushy peas]]. Alternative names for ''fritters'' in different parts of the UK are:
* Scallops (Merseyside Region)
* Scones (North East of England)
* Batch Cakes (Northern Lancashire)

Other notable types of fritter are:
* [[Spam]] Fritters - proprietary brand of spiced ham
* [[Banana]] Fritters - Normally the whole banana is coated in batter and deep fried
* [[Pineapple]] Fritters - cored pineapple, cut into rings
* [[Apple]] Fritters - cored apple, cut into rings.
* [[Onion rings]] - sliced onion separated into individual rings.
In [[Glasgow]], it is possible to obtain almost any food, deep fried in this manner. Specialities there include the deep fried [[Mars Bar]] and deep fried [[Pizza]].

The batter-frying technique was introduced into Japan by the Portuguese and Spanish in the late 16th century and the [[tempura]] that developed involved a mixed fry of shrimps, herbs, and vegetables. Fritto misto is an Italian dish of bits of meat, seafood, and vegetables dipped in batter and fried in olive oil. A specialty dish of various local cuisines is the flower fritter, using daylilies, roses, violets, acacia, elder blow, and squash blossoms.

==Fritter Cakes==

A different type of ''fritter'' occurs in the cuisines of many countries: the French beignets, Italian bigne, and Greek loukoumades are small cakes made with batter mixed with and another (main) ingredient and fried. The Indian pakora is a savoury deep-fried cake containing bits of cauliflower, eggplant, or other vegetables. Beignets are common in Louisianna especially during Mardi Gras. In other parts of the [[United States]], "corn fritters" and "apple fritters" are favoutites, and New England clam cakes, Maryland crab cakes, and Philadelphia scrapple are essentially varieties of this type of fritter.

''Fritter'' is also the name for a type of doughnut, with apple flavoured ones being the most popular.

==Origins of the name:==

The word ''fritter'' derives from the Latin ''frictura'' or ''frictus'' (past participle of ''frigere'', meaning ''to roast''). This has come down to us via the Anglo-French ''friture'' and the Middle English ''fritour''

[[Category:Food]]

Fritter

2007-05-29T14:56:20Z

Felix: other fritters

A '''Fritter''' is any edible object which has been coated in batter and deep fried.

[[Image:Mars1.jpg|right|250px|thumb|The ultimate fritter - the deep fried Mars Bar! A delicacy; but not one for the faint hearted, or those on calorie-controlled diets.]]
In the [[UK]], ''fritters'' may be purchased form a [[Chip shop]] along with [[Battered fish]], [[Chips]] and [[Mushy peas]]. Alternative names for ''fritters'' in different parts of the UK are:
* Scallops (Merseyside Region)
* Scones (North East of England)
* Batch Cakes (Northern Lancashire)

Other notable types of fritter are:
* [[Spam]] Fritters - proprietary brand of spiced ham
* [[Banana]] Fritters - Normally the whole banana is coated in batter and deep fried
* [[Pineapple]] Fritters - cored pineapple, cut into rings
* [[Apple]] Fritters - cored apple, cut into rings.
* [[Onion rings]] - sliced onion separated into individual rings.

In [[Glasgow]], it is possible to obtain almost any food, deep fried in this manner. Specialities include the deep fried [[Mars Bar]] and deep fried [[Pizza]]. In [[France]], these foodstuff are called les beignets and the dish is common in Louisianna especially during Mardi Gras. In the [[United States]], "corn fritters" and "apple fritters" are small cakes made with batter and the main ingredient and fried. New England clam cakes, Maryland crab cakes, and Philadelphia scrapple are essentially varieties of this type of fritter.

''Fritter'' is also the name for a type of doughnut, with apple flavoured ones being the most popular.

[[Category:Food]]

Fritter

2007-05-29T14:27:18Z

Felix: spellings and minor corrections

Fritter

2007-05-29T14:23:16Z

Felix:

2007-05-08T11:18:43Z

Felix:

Calf

2007-05-08T11:14:18Z

Felix: removed non-encyclopaedic material

{{merge|Cow}}
{{merge|Whale}}

A '''calf''' is a young [[cow]] or [[whale]].

[[Category:Hoofed mammals]]
[[Category:Livestock]]

Talk:Calf

2007-05-08T11:10:09Z

Felix: New page: It should be removed and mention of "delicious" should be banned as it is contemputous to eat meat. Felix

It should be removed and mention of "delicious" should be banned as it is contemputous to eat meat. [[User:Felix|Felix]]

2007-05-02T09:10:48Z

Felix:

Sandwich

2007-04-27T16:50:27Z

Felix: /* Sandwich Trivia */

[[Image:sandwich.jpg|right|250px|thumb]]

A '''sandwich''' (or "butty") is the name given to a popular lunchtime food consisting of a filling (such as [[meat]] or [[cheese]], sandwiched between two pieces of [[bread]]. Condiments such as [[mayonnaise]], [[ketchup]], and [[mustard]] are commonly used to add extra flavour to the sandwich. The beauty of the sandwich is that the possibilities for fillings are almost endless and that the bread keeps one from getting the filling on one's hands allowing them to be eaten anywhere.

==Bread==

Sandwiches can be made with almost any kind of bread. Popular sandwich breads include:

Wholemeal Bread

The [[French]] [[Baguette]]

Soda Bread

Black Bread

The Bread Roll (also known as a "cob", "barm", "bampot" or "oven bottom")

==Popular Sandwiches==
[[Image:ChipButty.jpg|thumb| right|250px| Delicious chip butty with Tomato Ketchup ]]

The [[knuckle sandwich]] is a traditional English factory worker's lunch.

The [[Double Pork Sandwich]] is another traditional [[English]] dish.

The "BLT" consists of bacon, lettuce and tomato.

The Beef Roll consists of sliced beef and [[horseradish]] on a bread roll

The Bombay Roll consists of sweet and sour [[chicken]], lettuce and soy sauce on a bread roll and was popular in [[ports]] where trade was done with the [[Orient]].

The Bacon sandwich is a popular breakfast item and consists of bacon and either [[brown sauce]] or tomato [[ketchup]]

The chip butty consists of a buttered bap, cob or soft roll filled with hot freshly fried [[chips]].

==Sandwich Trivia==

It is thought to be named after the 4th Earl of Sandwich, John Montagu, although he never used nor sought to perpetuate the term. The popular legend is that he ordered bread and meat one eveing during an extended card game. When the victuals arrived, he sliced the bread and meat and 'sandwiched' the bread between the meat, so that he could carry on eating and playing. In fact sandwiches had existed long before the birth of Lord Sandwich. In fact the earliest known example of a sandwich is thought to be the [[Paschal lamb]] and [[matzo]] combination eaten by [[Hillel the Elder]] at Passover. It is likely that [[Jesus]] ate sandwiches.

==Links==

http://www.sandwich.org.uk/

[[category:food and drink]]

Sandwich

2007-04-27T16:46:52Z

Felix: /* Popular Sandwiches */ added pic

[[Image:sandwich.jpg|right|250px|thumb]]

A '''sandwich''' is the name given to a popular lunchtime food consisting of a filling (such as [[meat]] or [[cheese]], sandwiched between two pieces of [[bread]]. Condiments such as [[mayonnaise]], [[ketchup]], and [[mustard]] are commonly used to add extra flavour to the sandwich. The beauty of the sandwich is that the possibilities for fillings are almost endless and that the bread keeps one from getting the filling on one's hands allowing them to be eaten anywhere.

==Bread==

Sandwiches can be made with almost any kind of bread. Popular sandwich breads include:

Wholemeal Bread

The [[French]] [[Baguette]]

Soda Bread

Black Bread

The Bread Roll (also known as a "cob", "barm", "bampot" or "oven bottom")

==Popular Sandwiches==
[[Image:ChipButty.jpg|thumb| right|250px| Delicious chip butty with Tomato Ketchup ]]

The [[knuckle sandwich]] is a traditional English factory worker's lunch.

The [[Double Pork Sandwich]] is another traditional [[English]] dish.

The "BLT" consists of bacon, lettuce and tomato.

The Beef Roll consists of sliced beef and [[horseradish]] on a bread roll

The Bombay Roll consists of sweet and sour [[chicken]], lettuce and soy sauce on a bread roll and was popular in [[ports]] where trade was done with the [[Orient]].

The Bacon sandwich is a popular breakfast item and consists of bacon and either [[brown sauce]] or tomato [[ketchup]]

The chip butty consists of a buttered bap, cob or soft roll filled with hot freshly fried [[chips]].

==Sandwich Trivia==

It is thought to be named after the 4th Earl of Sandwich, John Montagu, although he never used nor sought to perpetuate the term. Sandwiches had existed long before the birth of Lord Sandwich. In fact the earliest known example of a sandwich is thought to be the [[Paschal lamb]] and [[matzo]] combination eaten by [[Hillel the Elder]] at Passover. It is likely that [[Jesus]] ate sandwiches.

==Links==

http://www.sandwich.org.uk/

[[category:food and drink]]

Yorkshire Pudding

2007-04-27T16:33:24Z

Felix:

Yorkshire Pudding is a delicacy made from flour, eggs, milk, dripping and a pinch of salt <ref> http://www.york-united-kingdom.co.uk/localinfo/yorkshirepudding/</ref>. As its name suggests, it originates in Yorkshire <ref> One of the oldest recipes for Yorkshire pudding can be found in 'The Art of Cookery' by Hannah Glasse, first published in 1796. </ref>
, and is traditionally eaten with roast beef for Sunday lunch.

[[Image:YPBoatRace.jpg| right|200px|thumb|One of the competitors in the Milennium race]]
An event of long standing is The Great Yorkshire Pudding Boat Race. <ref> For an account of the millennium run of this event see: http://www.theshed.co.uk/independent.html</ref>. This event requires competitors to construct their own boats. The recipe for one boat comprises 50 eggs, four bags of flour, 25 pints of milk, beaten and baked, lined with industrial foam-filler and given its characteristic glossy finish with layers of of yacht varnish.

The picture here depicts a tense moment from the event as seen from the pond-side, including an unfortunate sinking in the background. The frantic paddling of the leaders echoes the Herculean stirring that goes into each boat's creation.

<references/>

Yorkshire Pudding

2007-04-27T16:28:54Z

Felix: create article

Yorkshire Pudding is a delicacy made from flour, eggs, milk, dripping and a pinch of salt<ref> http://www.york-united-kingdom.co.uk/localinfo/yorkshirepudding/</ref> As its name suggests, it originates in Yorkshire<ref> One of the oldest recipes for Yorkshire pudding can be found in 'The Art of Cookery' by Hannah Glasse, first published in 1796. </ref>
, and is traditionally eaten with roast beef for Sunday lunch. http://www.york-united-kingdom.co.uk/localinfo/yorkshirepudding/

An event of long standing is The Great Yorkshire Pudding Boat Race. <ref> For an account of the millennium run of this event see: http://www.theshed.co.uk/independent.html</ref>. This event requires competitors to construct their own boats. The recipe for one boat comprises 50 eggs, four bags of flour, 25 pints of milk, beaten and baked, lined with industrial foam-filler and given its characteristic glossy finish with layers of of yacht varnish.

The picture here depicts a tense moment from the event as seen from the pond-side, including an unfortunate sinking in the background. The frantic paddling of the leaders echoes the Herculean stirring that goes into each boat's creation.

<references/>

Battered Fish

2007-04-27T16:09:03Z

Felix:

[[Image:Fishandchips.jpg|200px|thumb|right|Up market version of fish and chips ]]

Battered fish are delicacies normally served to accompany [[potato chips|chips]] and [[mushy peas]]. Fish used is primarily [[cod]], but can, in principle be any fish (such as [[hake]], [[haddock]] or [[plaice]]) which is in plentiful supply.

Battered fish would normally be purchased from a local [[Chip shop|Fish and chip shop]] in Britain. Normally the batter is similar to that used to make [[pancake]]s, [[Yorkshire Pudding]]s, [[toad-in-the-hole]] and [[fritter]]s. However, there are many variants on batter recipes, some involving huge amounts of local beer <ref> see:http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,1617,159185-238206,00.html</ref> .

<references/>

Battered Fish

2007-04-27T16:08:03Z

Felix: added ref tag

[[Image:Fishandchips.jpg|200px|thumb|right|Up market version of fish and chips ]]

Battered fish are delicacies normally served to accompany [[potato chips|chips]] and [[mushy peas]]. Fish used is primarily [[cod]], but can, in principle be any fish (such as [[hake]], [[haddock]] or [[plaice]]) which is in plentiful supply.

Battered fish would normally be purchased from a local [[Chip shop|Fish and chip shop]] in Britain. Normally the batter is similar to that used to make [[pancake]]s, [[Yorkshire Pudding]]s, [[toad-in-the-hole]] and [[fritter]]s. However, there are many variants on batter recipes, some involving huge amounts of local beer<ref> see:http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,1617,159185-238206,00.html</ref> .

<reference/>

Battered Fish

2007-04-27T16:07:33Z

Felix: added pic

[[Image:Fishandchips.jpg|200px|thumb|right|Up market version of fish and chips ]]

Battered fish are delicacies normally served to accompany [[potato chips|chips]] and [[mushy peas]]. Fish used is primarily [[cod]], but can, in principle be any fish (such as [[hake]], [[haddock]] or [[plaice]]) which is in plentiful supply.

Battered fish would normally be purchased from a local [[Chip shop|Fish and chip shop]] in Britain. Normally the batter is similar to that used to make [[pancake]]s, [[Yorkshire Pudding]]s, [[toad-in-the-hole]] and [[fritter]]s. However, there are many variants on batter recipes, some involving huge amounts of local beer<ref> see:http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,1617,159185-238206,00.html</ref> .

File:Fishandchips.jpg

2007-04-27T16:04:25Z

Felix:

Battered Fish

2007-04-27T16:00:27Z

Felix: create new article

Battered fish are delicacies normally served to accompany [[potato chips|chips]] and [[mushy peas]]. Fish used is primarily [[cod]], but can, in principle be any fish (such as [[hake]], [[haddock]] or [[plaice]]) which is in plentiful supply.

Battered fish would normally be purchased from a local [[Chip shop|Fish and chip shop]] in Britain. Normally the batter is similar to that used to make [[pancake]]s, [[Yorkshire Pudding]]s, [[toad-in-the-hole]] and [[fritter]]s. However, there are many variants on batter recipes, some involving huge amounts of local beer.

Mushy peas

2007-04-27T15:52:12Z

Felix:

[[ Image:Carlins.jpg |200px|thumb| Carlin peas simmering in a pan]]

'''Mushy peas''' are dried marrowfat peas which have been soaked overnight and then boiled. They are a great favourite of the north of [[England]] and are a traditional accompaniment to [[battered fish| fish]] and [[potato chips| chips]], and normally purchased from a local [[chip shop]]. Local variations include [[Lancashire]] 'black peas' which are an acquired taste<ref> see
http://music.musictnt.com/biography/sdmc_Black_Peas for recipes and directions for eating</ref>. Black peas bear similarities to [[Carlin]] or [[Carling]] peas served in the north-east of England.

Mushy peas are best served with [[salt]] and lashings of [[vinegar]].

===References===

<references/>

[[Category:Food and drink]]