Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Essay: New Ordeal

2007-05-29T16:42:56Z

Franklin: Why did you revert my edit and remove my comment?

Who coined the term "New Ordeal?"--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 10:50, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:It's common knowledge. Who coined the term, "Contract ''on'' Amercia"? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 10:55, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

No, it is not common knowledge. As for the "Contract on America" that was a democratic spoof of the the Republican "Contract with America" during the 1994 midterm elections--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 11:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

: I agree, I've never heard of the New Ordeal, and I'm not getting any quick info on it from Google. I think Franklin's question is valid - is it coined by the author of the sourced book? --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 11:07, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

::Even the single reference for the page makes no mention of "New Ordeal", nor can I find any online reference to the term in this context. Is this a term that Rush has created or was it created by the author of this page? [[User:Boomcoach|Boomcoach]] 11:09, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:::Rationalwiki has some discussion of this likewise. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:25, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

I looked on rationalwiki. The term seems to be your creation, and the cited sources do not support your contention. The 1945 Time magazine article deals with the impending demobilization of U.S. troops at the close of World War Two, and the chart showing flucuations in the U.S. economy deals with the last few decades of the nineteenth century. If you are trying to construct some sort of argument about the New Deal (which did have its shortcomings) this is a very poor way to do it.--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 11:35, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:Contract ''on'' America was a spoof? Really? Seems common knowledge spoofed New Dealers for 70 years and they didn't even know it. Must be more evidence that they did not know everything afterall, huh? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:39, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:: Is it really too much to ask to drop the sarcasam and just state who coined the phrase? I'm not sure what rationalwiki has to do with this site, either. --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 11:41, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:::It's been common knowledge for decades. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:42, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: The phrase may be common knowledge in certain circles, but I think it is not as widely spread as you believe it to be. --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 12:00, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Hardly common knowledge. Where did the phrase come from? Can you cite that? Was it in Hayek's book that you cited (although I cannot imagine Hayek being so crass)?--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 11:46, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:Well of course, given censorship, oppression, and the [[Fairness Doctrine]] for 50 years. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Well, you are not being censored or oppressed. I have asked you to forthrightly provide your sources, and you have directed us to rationalwiki, where the cites did not support your contention. So, I ask again, what is your evidence for this term? Is it in Hayek or another source?--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 12:06, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:I beleive I've answered several times. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:27, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Actually, you have not. You have have been asked several times and you respond that the term is common knowledge. Show a little bit of intellectual honesty my friend.--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 12:33, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:It also survives in oral histories. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:34, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Why did you revert my edit and remove my comment? I repeat: many oral histories have transcribed into printed form/ Can you direct me to a few where I might see this term used?--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 12:42, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Essay: New Ordeal

2007-05-29T16:39:16Z

Franklin:

Who coined the term "New Ordeal?"--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 10:50, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:It's common knowledge. Who coined the term, "Contract ''on'' Amercia"? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 10:55, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

No, it is not common knowledge. As for the "Contract on America" that was a democratic spoof of the the Republican "Contract with America" during the 1994 midterm elections--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 11:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

: I agree, I've never heard of the New Ordeal, and I'm not getting any quick info on it from Google. I think Franklin's question is valid - is it coined by the author of the sourced book? --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 11:07, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

::Even the single reference for the page makes no mention of "New Ordeal", nor can I find any online reference to the term in this context. Is this a term that Rush has created or was it created by the author of this page? [[User:Boomcoach|Boomcoach]] 11:09, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:::Rationalwiki has some discussion of this likewise. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:25, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

I looked on rationalwiki. The term seems to be your creation, and the cited sources do not support your contention. The 1945 Time magazine article deals with the impending demobilization of U.S. troops at the close of World War Two, and the chart showing flucuations in the U.S. economy deals with the last few decades of the nineteenth century. If you are trying to construct some sort of argument about the New Deal (which did have its shortcomings) this is a very poor way to do it.--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 11:35, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:Contract ''on'' America was a spoof? Really? Seems common knowledge spoofed New Dealers for 70 years and they didn't even know it. Must be more evidence that they did not know everything afterall, huh? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:39, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:: Is it really too much to ask to drop the sarcasam and just state who coined the phrase? I'm not sure what rationalwiki has to do with this site, either. --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 11:41, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:::It's been common knowledge for decades. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:42, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: The phrase may be common knowledge in certain circles, but I think it is not as widely spread as you believe it to be. --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 12:00, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Hardly common knowledge. Where did the phrase come from? Can you cite that? Was it in Hayek's book that you cited (although I cannot imagine Hayek being so crass)?--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 11:46, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:Well of course, given censorship, oppression, and the [[Fairness Doctrine]] for 50 years. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Well, you are not being censored or oppressed. I have asked you to forthrightly provide your sources, and you have directed us to rationalwiki, where the cites did not support your contention. So, I ask again, what is your evidence for this term? Is it in Hayek or another source?--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 12:06, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:I beleive I've answered several times. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:27, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Actually, you have not. You have have been asked several times and you respond that the term is common knowledge. Show a little bit of intellectual honesty my friend.--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 12:33, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:It also survives in oral histories. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:34, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Wonderful! Many oral histories have been recorded and transcirbed in book or sometimes journal format. Can you cite some?--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 12:37, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Essay: New Ordeal

2007-05-29T16:37:02Z

Franklin:

Who coined the term "New Ordeal?"--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 10:50, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:It's common knowledge. Who coined the term, "Contract ''on'' Amercia"? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 10:55, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

No, it is not common knowledge. As for the "Contract on America" that was a democratic spoof of the the Republican "Contract with America" during the 1994 midterm elections--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 11:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

: I agree, I've never heard of the New Ordeal, and I'm not getting any quick info on it from Google. I think Franklin's question is valid - is it coined by the author of the sourced book? --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 11:07, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

::Even the single reference for the page makes no mention of "New Ordeal", nor can I find any online reference to the term in this context. Is this a term that Rush has created or was it created by the author of this page? [[User:Boomcoach|Boomcoach]] 11:09, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:::Rationalwiki has some discussion of this likewise. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:25, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

I looked on rationalwiki. The term seems to be your creation, and the cited sources do not support your contention. The 1945 Time magazine article deals with the impending demobilization of U.S. troops at the close of World War Two, and the chart showing flucuations in the U.S. economy deals with the last few decades of the nineteenth century. If you are trying to construct some sort of argument about the New Deal (which did have its shortcomings) this is a very poor way to do it.--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 11:35, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:Contract ''on'' America was a spoof? Really? Seems common knowledge spoofed New Dealers for 70 years and they didn't even know it. Must be more evidence that they did not know everything afterall, huh? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:39, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:: Is it really too much to ask to drop the sarcasam and just state who coined the phrase? I'm not sure what rationalwiki has to do with this site, either. --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 11:41, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:::It's been common knowledge for decades. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:42, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: The phrase may be common knowledge in certain circles, but I think it is not as widely spread as you believe it to be. --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 12:00, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Hardly common knowledge. Where did the phrase come from? Can you cite that? Was it in Hayek's book that you cited (although I cannot imagine Hayek being so crass)?--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 11:46, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

:Well of course, given censorship, oppression, and the [[Fairness Doctrine]] for 50 years. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Well, you are not being censored or oppressed. I have asked you to forthrightly provide your sources, and you have directed us to rationalwiki, where the cites did not support your contention. So, I ask again, what is your evidence for this term? Is it in Hayek or another source?--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 12:06, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:I beleive I've answered several times. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:27, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Actually, you have not. You have have been asked several times and you respond that the term is common knowledge. Show a little bit of intellectual honesty my friend.--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 12:33, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
:It also survives in oral histories. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:34, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Wonderful! Many oral histories have been recorded and transcirbed in book or sometimes journal format Can you cite some?--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 12:37, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Essay: New Ordeal

2007-05-29T16:33:08Z

Franklin:

Talk:Essay: New Ordeal

2007-05-29T16:06:02Z

Franklin:

Talk:Essay: New Ordeal

2007-05-29T15:46:40Z

Franklin:

Talk:Essay: New Ordeal

2007-05-29T15:35:19Z

Franklin:

Talk:Essay: New Ordeal

2007-05-29T15:02:06Z

Franklin:

Essay: New Ordeal

2007-05-29T14:52:35Z

Franklin:

[[Image:29-49.gif|right|200px|thumb|Dow Jones Industrial Averages, 1929-49.]]
[[Image:115yeardowgoldratio.gif|right|200px|thumb|Dow Jones Index in constant dollars relative to the price of gold. The chart is a good reflection of living standards throughout the period.]]
The '''New Ordeal''' describes the period of time between 1929 and 1949, when the American economy finally recovered from the [[Crash of '29]]. It encompasses the early statges of the [[Great Depression]] and the terms of Presidents Herbert Hoover, the four terms of [[Franklin D. Roosevelt]] had been elected to, the final term having been administered mostly by his successor, President [[Harry S. Truman]]. The New Ordeal also is sometimes refered to as the '''Great Ordeal''' or simply the '''Ordeal'''.

==Double double dip==

During the twenty years of the New Ordeal, America experienced 2 double dip recessions, or essentially a second depression within the [[Great Depression]], and [[World War II]], a calamity that claimed the lives of 55 million people worldwide. Many of the nations involved in World War II resorted to "economic planning", as Economist [[Friedrich Hayek]] refered to it, to address the so-called "crisis in capitalism" in the 1930s.

The 1929-1949 recession had within it a recession from 1937-1943; 1933 to 1937 were recovery years stimulated by the New Deal government spending. However by 1937 the nation had nowhere near recovered to where it was in 1929. Manufacturing demand stimulated by WWII led to the 1943-1949 recovery, where finally, in 1949, the New York Stock Exchange recovered to the level it had been at 1929.

==Recording keeping & construction trades==

Record keeping and even economic definitions then where not what they are today. By using the Dow Jones Industrial Average (which is practically the only measurement available in real time that scans the entire period) the Dow did not get back to the level it was at in 1929 until 1949 (160 pts on the Dow). Other economic indexes either did not exist, or were developed later, often by guess work. For example, the oft quotes unemployment rate of 25% which peaked in 1932 is only guess work based upon observations in New York City. No one knows what the real national figures were, or what it actually had been in places like Arkansas or Oklahoma. Gross output figures such as [[GDP]] did not exist either.

It was not until 1949 that [[living standards]] and peacetime [[employment]] returned to something like it was prior to 1929. The New Ordeal is evident today throughout American cities where one can see a distinct gap in the building and construction trades that took place in the decades of the 1930's and 40's. Little was built beyond quonset huts, tin structures with a semi-circular shape and a timber frame underneath. And what was built was either extremely expensive, or built by the government usually for military purposes.

==Further reading==
*[http://www.iea.org.uk/files/upld-publication43pdf?.pdf ''Road to Serfdom'',] Friedrich A. Hayek, Reader's Digest Condensned Version, April 1945.

[[Category:History]]
[[Category:politics]]
[[Category:economics]]

Talk:Essay: New Ordeal

2007-05-29T14:50:44Z

Franklin: New page: Who coined the term "New Ordeal?"--~~~~

Who coined the term "New Ordeal?"--[[User:Franklin|Franklin]] 10:50, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Bonus Army

2007-05-28T22:59:21Z

Franklin:

The 1924 Adjusted Service Certificate Law gave [[World War I]] veterans "bonus" certificates that they could redeem for cash in 1945. When the [[Great Depression]] hit in the early 1930s, many veterans went through financial struggles and, like many other Americans, found themselves out of work, and some began to demand their certificates early. 15,000 of them marched on [[Washington, D.C.]] in May, 1932, demanding that they receive their bonuses. Although the [[House of Representatives]] passed a bill that would have given them their money, the [[Senate]] voted against it. [http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/bonusarmy.htm] The marchers, known as the '''Bonus Army''', did not leave. Fearing a coup, on July 28, President [[Herbert Hoover | Hoover]] deployed the military, ordering to only have the bonus army leave. However, General [[Douglas MacArthur]] went beyond Hoover's instructions, and led a strong strike against the Bonus Marchers, involving the use of tanks. While only one Bonus Marcher was killed when all was said and done, but the photograpghs of the burning Bonus Army encampment helped to sully the reputation of President Hoover. [http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/bonusm.htm]

The movement to demand early payment of the bonuses did not go away, and in 1936, Congress overrode the veto of President [[Franklin D. Roosevelt | Roosevelt]], and gave the veterans their bonuses early. In the 1940s, the G.I. Bill of Rights was passed in an effort to prevent a similar scenario from occurring again. [http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,111104_BonusArmy,00.html]

[[Category:World War I]]
[[Category:Great Depression]]