Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Planned Parenthood

2010-03-07T00:07:45Z

JerryR: Undo revision 760150 by Leafsnail (Talk) provide a link for it please

[[File:Abortion pro support.jpg|thumb|Supporters and "pro-lifers" controversy.]]
The '''Planned Parenthood Federation of America''' operates clinics which perform [[abortion]]s and provide [[birth control]]<ref>'The controversial topic of "reproductive health services," better known as birth control, was one of many topics debated at the 2002 U.N. General Assembly Special Session for Children.' [http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/jan-june02/un_children.html (PBS)] </ref> and a limited amount of [[health care]]. Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion provider in the United States. <ref>http://www.all.org/stopp/rr0404.htm</ref> It performs nearly 200 times more abortions than referrals for adoption. <ref>http://www.lifenews.com/nat3104.html</ref> It is a [[Eugenics|eugenicist]]-founded organization.

Despite legally being classified as a non-profit organization, Planned Parenthood reported an average annual "surplus" of over $40 million from the fiscal years ending in 2001 through 2006.<ref>http://www.lifeissues.org/pp/index.html</ref> and had over $1 billion in income in 2006. Planned Parenthood had profits of nearly $115 million and received $336 million dollars from the government in order to carry out its operations, including almost 300,000 abortions that year.<ref>http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/mmalkin/2008/mm_06041.shtml</ref>

The organization boasts that it provides "sexual and reproductive health care", but this is rather transparent code for [[abortion]] and [[contraception]].

Planned Parenthood annually gives awards to those who support their agenda and the top award which they give is called The Margaret Sanger Award. <ref>[http://www.mailman.hs.columbia.edu/news/e-newsletter/AtTheFrontline-vol1no3/ne-AR-Sanger-Award.html]</ref> <ref>[http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/who-we-are/ppfa-margaret-sanger-award-winners.htm]</ref>

[[Margaret Sanger]] was the founder of Planned Parenthood and was also a proponent of [[eugenics]], believing that blacks were a racially inferior race, along with being a member of both the [[American Eugenics Society]] and the [[English Eugenics Society]]. <ref>[http://www.all.org/abac/contents.txt]</ref> <ref>[http://www.lifeadvocate.org/1_98/feature.htm]</ref> She has been widely praised by many [[liberal]] politicians like [[Hillary Clinton]]. <ref>[http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/04/sec_clinton_nonsensically_comp_1.asp Mrs. Clinton Nonsensically Compares Margaret Sanger to Thomas Jefferson]</ref>

[[Alan Guttmacher]], who was a President of Planned Parenthood from 1962 to 1974 and who was also former Vice-President of the American Eugenics Society,<ref>http://catholicwriter.wordpress.com/2007/01/29/what-is-roe-v-wade/</ref><ref>http://www.eugenics-watch.com/</ref>
stated: "We are merely walking down the path that Ms. Sanger has carved out for us." <ref>http://www.nationallifechain.org/PP.pdf</ref><ref>http://www.lifesite.net/waronfamily/Population_Control/Inherentracism.pdf</ref> Similarly, Faye Wattleton, who was the president of Planned Parenthood until 1992, stated that she was "proud" to be "walking in the footsteps" of Margaret Sanger.<ref>http://www.lifesite.net/waronfamily/Population_Control/Inherentracism.pdf</ref>

==Statements by founder Margaret Sanger==

{{cquote|<big>'''The campaign for Birth Control ''is not merely of eugenic value'', but is practically identical in ideal with the final aim of Eugenics.'''</big> <ref>October 1921 issue of The Birth Control Review</ref>}}

*"The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it." <ref>http://www.bartleby.com/1013/5.html</ref>

{{cquote|'''..the mass of signficant Negroes, particularly in the South, still breed carelessly and disastrously, with the result that the increase among Negroes, even more than among whites, is [in] that portion of the population least intelligent and fit and least able to rear children properly.''' - ''Margaret Sanger - The "Negro Project"'' quoting [[W.E.B. DuBois]] with the omission of one word <ref>http://www.jstor.org/view/00147354/di975884/97p14282/1?frame=noframe&userID=80cdbf34@buffalo.edu/01cce4406300501bbf062&dpi=3&config=jstor</ref>}}

*'''"Before eugenists and others who are laboring for racial betterment can succeed, they must first clear the way for Birth Control. Like the advocates of Birth Control, the eugenists, for instance, are seeking to assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit. Both are seeking a single end but they lay emphasis upon different methods…"''' <ref>http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/hypatia/v022/22.2sanger.html</ref>

*"Organized charity is itself the symptom of a malignant social disease. Those vast complex, interrelated organizations aiming to control and to diminish the spread of misery and destitution and all the menacing evils that spring out of this sinisterly fertile soil, are the surest sign that our civilization has bred, ''is breeding and is perpetuating constantly increasing numbers of defectives, delinquents and dependents.'' My criticism therefore, is not directed at the ‘failure’ of philanthropy, but rather at its success" - Margaret Sanger, ''The Pivot of Civilization'' [NY: Brentano's, 1922], p. 108).<ref>http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/socl/socialconcerns/ThePivotofCivilization/chap6.html</ref>

*'''In Margaret Sanger's book ''The Pivot of Civilization'' she also called for the elimination of "human weeds," for the segregation of "morons, misfits, and maladjusted," and for the sterilization of ''"genetically inferior [black] races."''''' <ref>http://www.ewtn.com/library/prolife/pp04a.txt</ref>

==Breaking the Law==
Planned Parenthood consistently flaunts the law <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,463404,00.html Planned Parenthood Caught Covering Up Statutory Rape] Fox News, December 08, 2008</ref>

* Lawsuits alleging they shelter child rapists by not reporting underage rape and abuse. <ref>http://www.childpredators.com/CoverUp.cfm</ref>

* 107 criminal charges, which includes 23 felony charges of late-term abortions and falsifying documents, at the Comprehensive Health of Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid Missouri. <ref>[http://www.womeninfluencingthenation.com/a-new-front-in-the-abortion-wars-by-robert-d.-novak.html A New Front in the Abortion Wars] Women influencing the nation</ref>

* Defrauding the State of [[California]] of $180 million in taxpayer funds. <ref>[http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000006735.cfm Planned Parenthood Accused of Overbilling Government]Citizen Link, March 10, 2008</ref>

* Advises underage teenagers to experiment with pornography and sex without telling parents through their website for teens.

* In February 2010, Planned Parenthood was caught covering up child-sex abuse during an undercover sting for the 10th time.<ref> http://www.freerepublic.com/%5Ehttp://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=125970</ref>

==Deaths,Lawsuits, Grand Juries==

===Deaths===
[[File:Planned parenthood.jpg|right]]
*Edrica Goode, 21, died Feb. 14, 2007, who died from a botched abortion when a nurse attempted an abortion despite signs indicative of infection.<ref>[http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56394 Who's to blame when aborting women die?], Jill Stanek, ''WorldNetDaily.com'', June 27, 2007.</ref>

The Blackmun Wall lists all the women who died from legal abortions. <ref>[http://www.lifedynamics.com/Pro-life_Group/Pro-choice_Women/ The Blackmun Wall]</ref>

[[Michelle Malkin]] comments on the deaths of several patients at Planned Parenthood clinics.<ref> [http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/21/the-forgotten-victims-of-planned-parenthood/ The forgotten victims of Planned Parenthood]</ref>

===Lawsuits===

==== Phill Kline vs. Planned Parenthood====
"In Kansas, Johnson County District Attorney Phill Kline charged Comprehensive Health Of Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid Missouri with 107 criminal charges after a District Court judge reviewed the evidence and found probable cause that crimes have been committed." <ref>[http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23937 Phill Kline v. Planned Parenthood], Brian Burch, ''[[Human Events]]'', 12/13/2007</ref>
"The Comprehensive Health for Women clinic is being charged with 29 counts of performing illegal late term abortions; 20 counts of unlawful failure to determine the viability of late term abortions; 23 felony counts of making false information and 27 counts for unlawful failure to maintain records." <ref>[http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3170 Kansas Planned Parenthood Clinic Charged With 107 Violations Of Law], ''[[Traditional Values Coalition]]'', November 1, 2007</ref> <ref>[http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3175 Kansas Planned Parenthood Clinic Charged Over Illegal Late-Term Abortions], Andrea Lafferty, ''[[Traditional Values Coalition]]'', November, 2007</ref>

====Malpractice====
The San Jose Mercury News reports that the mother of a young woman who died at a Riverside, Calif., Planned Parenthood clinic has sued the abortion provider blaming malpractice for her daughter’s toxic shock syndrome death.(requires account registration)<ref>[http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_6195970?nclick_check=1]</ref>

===Grand Juries===

====Overland Park, Kansas====
A Grand Jury met on December 10, 2007 to begin an investigation into the practices of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Overland Park, Kansas. <ref>[http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3203 Grand Jury Convenes On Kansas Planned Parenthood Clinic], '[[Traditional Values Coalition]]'', December 6, 2007</ref>

== Planned Parenthood and Charges of Targeting Minority Communities ==

According to writer George Grant author of ''Killing Angel'':

"During the 1980s when Planned Parenthood shifted its focus from community-based clinics to school-based clinics, it again targeted inner-city minority neighborhoods...Of the more than 100 school-based clinics that have opened nationwide in the last decade [1980s], none has been at substantially all-white schools....None has been at suburban middle-class schools. All have been at black, minority or ethnic schools.” <ref>http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/special_issues/population/the_negro_project.htm</ref>

Planned Parenthood itself reported that its abortions on minorities in 1991 was 42.7% of its total abortions. <ref>http://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/PPRACISM.TXT</ref>. However, during that time period, minorities comprised only 19.7% of the U.S. population.<ref>http://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/PPRACISM.TXT</ref>

According to [[Cybercast News Service]]: "An analysis by the Cybercast News Service compared the location of Planned Parenthood abortion clinics with population data from the U.S. Census in 2000. The results appear to bolster the charge that the organization targets black communities."<ref>http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Carchive%5C200502%5CSPE20050207a.html</ref>

{{cquote| One out of every two black children are aborted.}} <ref>[http://www.defundplannedparenthood.org/home.html#jf5361f800 Citizen's Petition] Defund Planned Parenthood</ref>

== Minority Employees Charge Planned Parenthood with Racism ==

Recently, several minority employees of Planned Parenthood have filed multiple complaints of racism against the organization and they stated they were the target of constant slurs in a hostile, anti-male environment controlled by white women.<ref>http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40023</ref> An employee who is charging Planned Parenthood with discrimination said that a complaint was forwarded to Planned Parenthood human resources department and nothing was ever done about it and later he was put on probation and subsequently fired. <ref>http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40023</ref> Attorney Richard D. Ackerman, the lead attorney for two claimants, stated "This is a really sad state of affairs. It is unfortunate to find out that [Planned Parenthood, Los Angelos] PPLA, as a self-proclaimed promoter of 'tolerance and diversity,' is engaging in what appears to be the most primitive form of hate against its own employees." <ref>http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/aug/04081909.html</ref>

== Planned Parenthood's Teen Website Gets It Barred from California High School ==
A California father looked at Planned Parenthood's teen website and found it disgusting and vile. <ref>http://www.all.org/stopp/st020627.htm</ref>
The father shared what he learned about the site to the school board and they were so shocked they cancelled Planned Parenthood's appearance at the school which is in Coronado, California. <ref>http://www.all.org/stopp/st020627.htm</ref> The teen website also promotes [[Pornography|porn]] to teens. <ref> The Planned Parenthood teen Web site that says it was created "to provide medically accurate sexual health information for teens on the Internet," is advising teens that viewing pornography is a normal and "safer" way of enjoying sex. </ref>

== Planned Parenthood and Requests to Issue a Formal Apology ==
Planned Parenthood has been asked to issue a formal apology for what they did under Margaret Sanger's leadership and stop giving awards in Margaret Sanger's name but Planned Parenthood refuses to do so. <ref>http://www.cnsnews.com/Culture/Archive/200205/CUL20020506a.html</ref>

== Planned Parenthood and Charges It Still Carries Out Racist and Eugenic Policies ==
A critic of Planned Parenthood wrote:

<blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">
'''"In the latter half of the 1960s, Planned Parenthood and similar groups spent'''
'''millions of dollars promoting the idea that the U.S. was in the midst of a'''
'''dangerous population explosion. The idea was so absurd it could be disproved'''
'''in five minutes at any public library. Caught up in the hysteria, however,'''
'''the nation's news media never questioned why groups were warning of a'''
'''"population bomb" in the midst of plummeting birth rates.'''
</blockquote>

<blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">
Among friends, Planned Parenthood officials described the real situation. On
August 11, 1965, Dr. Robert Nelson, Medical Director of Planned Parenthood of
metropolitan Washington, spoke at the Senate "Baby Boom" hearings. He noted
that in Washington, DC, "the less well-off economic section birth rate is
29/1000 and going up; the rate of the economically more secure group is
16/1000 and going down."<ref>http://www.ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/PPHISTRY.TXT</ref>
</blockquote>

Some critics of Planned Parenthood charge that it has a history of racist and eugenic policies and still carries out those policies advocated by its Founder.<ref>http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/special_issues/population/the_negro_project.htm</ref><ref>http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/casey/ch3.html</ref>

== Taxpayer Money ==
Planned Parenthood has received over 3.9 billion dollars of taxpayer money since 1987

== Children Aborted ==
Since 1977, 4.8 million children have died at the hands of Planned Parenthood. <ref>[http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46449 Planned Parenthood's Annual Report Shows Record Net Assets, Increased Abortions]CNSNews, April 13, 2009</ref>

==See also==
*[[Previous Breaking News/Planned Parenthood|Articles about '''Planned Parenthood''' from previous "Breaking News"]]
*[[Margaret Sanger]]

==External links==
*[http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ Planned Parenthood Federation of America]
*[http://www.all.org/stopp/plan.htm American Life League presents STOPP International]
*[http://www.ldi.org/ LifeDynamics.com]
*[http://www.newsbusters.org/node/11573 LA Times Writer Eludes Truth On Planned Parenthood Founder]
*[http://www.defundplannedparenthood.org Defund Planned Parenthood petition]
*[http://www.maafa21.com Racist founding of Planned Parenthood]
*[http://www.childpredators.com/ Planned Parenthood Exposed- Conceals Child Rape]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{liberalism}}
[[Category: Abortion]]
[[Category: Racism]]
[[Category:Liberal Deceit]]
[[Category:Featured articles]]

Pro-abortion

2010-03-07T00:05:59Z

JerryR: Undo revision 760149 by Leafsnail (Talk) no one, not even liberals, supports the killing of fetus

The '''"pro-choice"''' position in the [[abortion debate]] maintains that the decision to give birth is entirely a personal one for the mother, literally a "matter of choice" with no one else, including the father or child, having a say. A doctor may advise, but only in a limited capacity. He ought not try to influence the pregnant woman, even if she's just a girl. He should not inform her about the long-term medical harms of the operation, or the emotional or social consequences, but simply let her make up her own mind. Advocates justify this position with the materialistic idea that a human being does not exist until after his complete birth (see [[partial-birth abortion]]).

The term is deceptive by deflecting or glossing-over the true meaning.
Advocates use the misleading term ''pro-choice'' to promote [[abortion]]; by implying that it means pro-''informed'' choice, when in fact some pro-choice supporters oppose informing women about the long-term medical harms of the operation. The label can be stated as '''pro-"choice"''', with quotation marks, to reflect a lack of support by the person of ''informed'' choice.

Pro-choice advocates often say ''"How can anybody be against having a choice?"'', and pro-life people reply that no-one has the right to 'choose' to kill a human being.

[[Planned Parenthood]] performs nearly 200 abortions for every referral for adoption.

The more accurate term for people and organizations who support taxpayer-funded [[abortion]], promote [[abortion]], or otherwise oppose fetal rights is ''[[pro-abortion]]''.

==See Also==
* [[Pro-life]]
* [[Abortion controversy]]
* [[Planned Parenthood]]

==External Links==
* [http://www.ippf.org/ Planned Parenthood]
* [http://www.bpas.org British Pregnancy Advisory Service]

[[Category:Abortion]]
[[category:deceit]]

Justice

2010-03-06T23:58:46Z

JerryR:

[[Image:Giotto - Scrovegni - -43- - Justice.jpg|right|200px|thumb|A personification of Justice, painted by [[Giotto]].]]
'''Justice''' is the attribute of fairness, especially in a [[court]] of law. The concept of justice is often misunderstood, being easily confused with retribution or punishment. The phrase "bring him to justice" means arresting a suspect, trying him, and having him sentenced; but it has also been used to refer to [[lynching]].

Some people have slogan, "No justice, no peace" meaning that they will refuse to act peacefully until they receive justice. This, obviously, is the opposite of [[Gandhi]]'s philosophy of ''Satyagraha''. During the US [[Civil rights movement]], however, Martin Luther King implored his followers to follow Gandhi's idea of suffering injustice willingly as a means of eradicating evil.

Justice seen as confronting evil with evil - or "stripe with stripe" - is based on an idea of balance. One bad turn deserves another. In a way, this is an improvement on the ancient notion of unlimited revenge. Someone offends you, and you kill him (or him and his whole family, village, etc.)

When Moses received the [[Ten Commandments]] from God, along with the other 600 laws, the concept of retribution was cemented in the ancient Jewish understanding. To modern Christians, it may seem harsh, but it was actually better to have "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" which is equal retribution than unregulated vengeance.

Today there are five manin goals of justice. Restitution, retribution, rehabilitation, incapacitation, and deterrance

The idea of justice an vengeance has predominated in history, and it even remains today in Christian America.

== Justice in Christianity ==
In [[Christian]] tradition, justice is one of the four cardinal [[virtue]]s. [[Biblical]]ly, justice is exemplified by just rulers such as King [[David]], although one does not have to be a ruler or judge in order to act justly. Anyone can display the virtue of justice during everyday life by, for example, avoiding [[prejudice]] and [[deceit]], behaving [[honor]]ably during business dealings, and speaking out against injustice where it occurs.
[[category:philosophy]]
[[Category:Morality]]

Debate:Is most government criticism really patriotic?

2010-03-06T23:54:58Z

JerryR:

{{debate}}

It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.
-''U. S. Supreme Court''

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
-''Theodore Roosevelt''

"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against its government."
-''Edward Abbey''

==YES==

The point of citizens criticizing their country is so that mistakes can be avoided and to strengthen the country. This is not unpatriotic. However, if one attacks the country and offers no solutions, this can be viewed as unpatriotic.

A country without critics will become bloated and egotistical. Someone needs to point out the wrongdoings of various nations. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 00:02, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

You know, this question reminds me of when [[Britney Spears]] said [http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/03/cnna.spears/ "Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens."] The insanity and stupidity of that statement is self-evident to anyone with a functioning mind. The term [[Patriotism]] is essentially "Fatherland" in [[Latin]], meaning, the support of the '''country''' ''not'' the government. [And NO, those two are not intertwined].

In fact it's '''unpatriotic''' to be silent when a government is corrupt. [[User:DLerner|DLerner]] 07:30, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

"True patriotism is not loving your country uncoditionally, but seeing its flaws and working to fix them"
thats how liberals do it, thats how conservatives do it, and its worked out pretty well so far-ginganinja

==NO==

"Acts that once would have horrified most Americans now pass below the public radar, as though they were part of the patter of normal political discourse." [http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=28306] And under the guise of "just having a healthy debate" people are giving aid and comfort to the enemy in a way that would have been called [[treason]] 60 years ago. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 09:43, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

By your definition then Ed, this sight would be unpatriotic as it has a significant amount of criticism of the government. Citizens being able TO critisize the government is precisley what makes democracy so great, and is the reason America has come so far--[[User:JerryR|JerryR]] 18:54, 6 March 2010 (EST)

==Probably Not, But Whatchagonnado?==
People will always criticise whatever government is in power. It's the nature of people. It's also an inalienable right. [[User:Underscoreb|Underscoreb]] 17:25, 12 November 2007 (EST)

This debate has been grossly overlooked. To create a biblical parallel, I will provide an analogy: The government is our protector, once from communism, today from terrorists and islamists. God is likewise our protector from Satan. To criticize the government is like criticizing God- It simply is not acceptable. Underscoreb, I do not believe it is an inalienable right to criticize the government and I do think that action could be taken to prevent the occurrence. [[User:ChrisWa|ChrisWa]]

:If you are unable to criticize the government then you are not living in a democracy. [[User:Rellik|Rellik]] 23:54, 11 March 2008 (EDT)
:So... if the communists were in control of the government where you are, would you criticize them? [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 00:02, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
::ChrisWa, I'm sure many politicians would appreciate your unintentionally parodic opinion, they love being compared to God :) [[User:DLerner|DLerner]] 07:30, 12 March 2008 (EDT)
:::The problem is Chriswa, that our government is not God they are human bings just like us. They can make mistakes and they will that is why there is government criticism. [[user:Riklionheart|Riklionheart]] (EDT)

Talk:Fidel Castro

2010-03-06T23:50:52Z

JerryR:

I’ve heard Castro called many things, but terrorist is not one of them, can someone explain why he is listed as a terrorist? Also could the information justifying that categorization be added to his page?--[[User:Reginod|Reginod]] 14:33, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

:''4. We do not attempt to be neutral to all points of view. We are neutral to the facts. If a group is a terrorist group, then the label "terrorist" is used here but not on Wikipedia.'' (See [[Differences_with_Wikipedia]])
:see [[Terrorism]] for a description of a terroist. Castro certainly was one.
:[[User:BillyBoy|BillyBoy]] 14:41, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

::It seems it depends on which of those definitions you are using as to whether or not Castro can be called a terrorist. If you are using the first definition, you can’t call him a terrorist (to the best of my knowledge) as the editorial policy here is (or seems to be) that we don’t say people (or possibly just living people) are guilty of doing something illegally (or, one assumes, unlawfully) unless they have been convicted of doing so. The second definition also probably doesn’t apply as Castro overpowered Batista with force not fear. The third definition (the one implicit in the discussion of Terrorism) may apply to Castro but I’d want to see evidence that he actually used “terror” to achieve his end—violence and intimidation clearly were used, but I’m less sure about terror (and if one part of a conjunction is false the whole of it is, so without some evidence that he used terror to achieve his end, you can’t call him a terrorist).--[[User:Reginod|Reginod]] 15:19, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

:::Castro couldn't have been convicted of being a terrorist because he terrorized the legal authority that could have convicted him out of existence.
:::[[User:BillyBoy|BillyBoy]] 15:26, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

::::That does seem to be a problem with the editorial policy (though I would say he used violence rather than terror to end the previous Cuban government), but I don’t make the policy (I’ve even argued against it). I’m just telling you what I gather the policy is. --[[User:Reginod|Reginod]] 15:29, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

"the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

By that definition Batista was a terrorist with his coup in 1934, just as Castro is, or George Washington for that matter...

It's all about the word "unlawful", which generally doesn't have the same meaning in different times and countries.

[[User:Middle Man|Middle Man]]

== DIctator/President ==

Interesting to note that Castro "has been the dictator of Cuba since 1959 and ''has called himself'' the President of Cuba since 1976," whereas [[Pervez Musharraf]] "''became'' President of Pakistan, ''via a coup''" (emphasis mine). What in essence is the difference? [[User:Humblpi|Humblpi]] 12:46, 19 February 2008 (EST)

:For a dictator, he certainly relinquished power without much of a struggle. [[User:Rugxulo|Rugxulo]] 18:53, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

==Castro Dead?==
Can we see some hard evidence suggesting this? Just because he is keeping to himself dosn't mean he has died. He is still the Secretary of the communist party--[[User:WilliamMc|WilliamMc]] 12:37, 29 December 2009 (EST)

:Maybe Fidel Castro is alive and even editing this site!!!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:08, 29 December 2009 (EST)

::Speculation is not necessary here as Castro is no longer running the show. His brother Raul Castro was innagurated as acting President in July 2006. Until such evidence is shown speculation of his death is ultimately baseless. Please do not add any. This is not a gossip site after all. --[[User:Matthew2208|Matthew2208]] 16:02, 29 December 2009 (EST)

:::Matthew, you're clueless here. When someone is missing for 3.5 years and there is an incentive to lie about his fate, then he's presumptively dead. Communists don't define the truth. God does.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:01, 29 December 2009 (EST)

::::In October Castro allegedly met with the leader of Cyprus and a Chinese official. [http://nba.msg.com/photo/0a1W9IQclz2DV Here] is a supposed photo of Castro with Wu Bangguo. It's released by the Cuban state media, but apparently the (obviously liberal) AP found it sufficiently convincing as to endorse it.
::::Obviously it's possible that the leader of Cyprus (and at least three other leaders who have allegedly met him since July) was paid off to lie about this and the photo is of a lookalike (or older). But true or false, matters are perhaps not quite so simple as Fidel simply disappearing for the last few years, and we should carefully consider the evidence. --[[User:JimR|JimR]] 20:13, 29 December 2009 (EST)
:::::Fidel, like many dictators, had body and face doubles, like the one we famously killed of Saddam in the opening salvo of the Iraq invasion. It seems far more likely to me that they just passed a double off as Castro than that they bribed a foreign head of state. [[User:JacobB|JacobB]] 20:16, 29 December 2009 (EST)

::::::[[Liberal denial]] illustrates its [[double standard]]. Natalie Holloway has been missing for a period comparable to Fidel Castro's absence, and no one would deny the likelihood that she is dead. It doesn't matter what the authorities might say. But no [[liberal]] will admit that Castro is likely dead also.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 09:31, 30 December 2009 (EST)

:::::::Well, the difference there is that Natalie Holloway disappeared, whereas Castro hasn't been seen in public for years. By that logic Macaulay Culkin is also dead. But seriously, Castro certainly could be dead, but that doesn't mean he is. If I had to guess, I'd say he's not. I think if he had died they would have staged an enormous funeral for him with all sorts of parades, teeming with propaganda. Dictators love that stuff. But that's just my opinion. [[User:DanL|DanL]] 12:08, 30 December 2009 (EST)

I just noticed that this made "[[Liberal Denial]]." DanL seems to make a good point Andy. I guess what I don't see is:
*a) What motivation the Cubans would have to lie about Castro being dead and
*b) What motivation liberals would have to insist that Castro is alive if he really were dead. It seems like a really obscure point at best. Personally, I'm assuming that Castro is alive for the same reason everyone else does: dictators don't just pass away unnoticed. Or is there a historical precedent I'm missing? [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 12:25, 30 December 2009 (EST)

Mr. Schlafly, I'm confused about whether you're saying you know he's dead or that you presume he's dead based on not being sighted in public. I just checked the news and there are quite a few references to him making statements recently. Are you saying someone is lying? If so, to what end? And the Holloway story is different in that she disappeared. You just haven't seen Castro lately. Others appear to have because they recorded his statements. [[User:Hectoruribe|Hectoruribe]] 12:38, 30 December 2009 (EST)

'''Motivation''' would primarily to conceal the power struggle while the fascists decide who's going to be the new dictator. Communists lie about everything else - particularly [[mass murder]] (see also [[genocide]]). The kind of political power that "comes out of the barrel of a gun" rather than the curtains of a voting booth is well disposed to deception. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 14:22, 30 December 2009 (EST)

:DanL and JDW seem to think that if a brutal communist regime claims someone is alive, then we should take that at face value even though he hasn't been seen publicly in 3.5 years. But they don't answer the question of why they believe communists when, for example, they probably wouldn't believe a similar claim that another missing person (such as Natalie Holloway) is still alive. As each day goes by without a public appearance by Fidel Castro or credible independent verification (e.g., a meeting with Republican congressmen), the chance Fidel Castro is still alive decreases. How much longer do DanL and JDW require before admitting that the chance has dropped to less than 50%? After 3.5 more years? 10 more years?

:Communists lie about everything. There's little reason to believe that the Russian dictator Yuri Andropov died when the communists said he did, given the long period when no one could confirm he was still alive either.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:20, 30 December 2009 (EST)
::It's not just Cubans who say he's alive. Castro himself wrote several articles in the last few months and the president of Argentina met with him in Cuba. Do you think he's dead because you believe communists are in general liars? [[User:Hectoruribe|Hectoruribe]] 15:36, 30 December 2009 (EST)
:::Well if you have doubts, feel free to fly down to Havana and see him for yourself. And while you're there, see about getting the right to criticize Castro's government...or the right to free speech in general, or the right to assemble freely with like-minded persons, or the right to attend the church of your choice, or the right to possess a gun just in case the government gets a tad-tyrannical. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 15:55, 30 December 2009 (EST)

:::(edit conflict) Wow, Hector, that seals the case ... Castro supposedly wrote some articles! Of course that proves nothing.

:::Castro was a communist dictator. He reveled in worship of him by the public. After he's been missing for a period of time from self-serving public events, a period that started with a life-threatening medical condition and complex surgery, the chance that he is still alive decreases with each passing day. The [[liberal denial]] of this is remarkable.

:::Perhaps the closure by liberals will come when the New York Times finally runs a front page article asking these questions. Then, as soon as the communists can arrange it without being too obvious, they will announce that Castro just passed away.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:00, 30 December 2009 (EST)
::::I don't really care either way since I don't have a horse in this race. If you'll notice, I'm just asking you questions, not taking a position one way or the other, so I'm not in liberal denial, whatever that is. I'm just concerned that you're not addressing that the president of Argentina met with him earlier this year. Hugo Chavez met with him more recently. Are these men liars? [[User:Hectoruribe|Hectoruribe]] 16:03, 30 December 2009 (EST)
:::::Well, I guess your statement "I don't really care either way" constitutes the bonafide end of your argument. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 16:07, 30 December 2009 (EST)
::::::I'm sorry I came off as flippant there. I don't care whether he's alive or dead, to be honest, but I do care that the article reflect the truth instead of speculation. Thanks for pointing out my error. [[User:Hectoruribe|Hectoruribe]] 16:14, 30 December 2009 (EST)
:::::::What you need to do is to read the Bible as you said you try to do on your user page, specifically Revelation 3:14-18; it tells of what Jesus will do to a church that "doesn't really care one way or the other":
::::::::''And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.''
:::::::[[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 16:19, 30 December 2009 (EST)

::Of course I don't take anything Communist regimes say at face value. They do indeed lie more than they tell the truth. Still I don't see the motivation in this case, as Castro is no longer even the leader, thus the power struggles Ed mentioned wouldn't be in play. Furthermore, I stand by my point. Dictators don't die unnoticed and unanounced: Stalin died and a massive funeral was organized overnight. Mao died and the same happened. Kim Il Sung, Hitler, you name it, no one kept their deaths a secret, because there was no reason to put off a big dramatic funeral and public outpouring of love for the Dear Leader. Can you name a single instance where a dictator died and his death was covered up?

::Not to mention, no one's touched my second question. What motivation would liberals have to ''deny'' that a dictator has died? To put it nicely, this whole issue sounds like shadow-boxing to me. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 16:40, 30 December 2009 (EST)

:::I do not know about Fidel Castro, however in history there were cases in which a leader died and a weaker leader took over, pretending to serve the interests of the previous leader. If Raul Castro is unpopular, maybe he pretends his brother is alive to use his power? I am not saying that this happened, but it is not without precedent.--[[User:Wuhao1911|Wuhao1911]] 16:59, 30 December 2009 (EST)

I removed the bit about him being dead as the article later states he was seen alive--[[User:JerryR|JerryR]] 18:50, 6 March 2010 (EST)