Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Church of Satan

2007-07-11T02:31:29Z

KxWaal:

{{Controversial}}

I just made a change to make it clear that the 9 sins according to the church of satan, including commentary contained therein, is from the Church of Satan's website. Even so, this article is unbalanced. Please add criticisms and/or other balancing material. Thanks. [[User:HeartOfGold|<big>H</big>eart<big>O</big>f<big>G</big>old]][[User_talk:HeartOfGold|talk]] 20:22, 20 May 2007 (EDT)

I have omitted the word "cult" from "cult beliefs". As there is no standardized definition of what separates a "cult" from a "religion", it would be best to refrain from using what is generally considered an offensive or condescending term. [[User:KxWaal|KxWaal]] 22:23, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

*Unacceptable. Sorry. --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 22:54, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

*(taken from http://www.cultinformation.org.uk/faq.html#cult)"Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following five characteristics:

1.It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members

2.It forms an elitist totalitarian society.

3.Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.

4.It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds recruit people.

5.Its wealth does not benefit its members or society."

If you can point out one characteristic out of these that the c.o.s. is guilty of, i'd like to know.
While the term "cult" can be used to loosely characterize any creed or doctrine, by this definition Christianity, Judaism etc. would also fall under the term. {{unsigned|KxWaal}}

:"A group or doctrine with religious, philosophical or cultural identity sometimes viewed as a sect, often existent on the margins of society." We don't need to point out any of the things you list above, we also don't mince our words for fear of "offending" the gentle souls at the Church of Satan. [[Image:User Fox.png]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 07:06, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

*KxWaal, I don't know of any major, or minor organized Christian religious group, nor any Rabinical Councils, that any of the 5 points applies to. Do you? --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 13:52, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

:TK, you have obviously misinterpreted what I said. I pointed out that I have found two differing definitions of the term "cult": The first being a group that can be characterized by those 5 points, the second one being a broad term that can define just about any creed. Mainstream Christianity definitely is not guilty of the prior, neither is Anton Lavey's idea of Satanism.
:Satanism is really more of a philosophy anyhow. Think humanism with a fashion sense. The whole "church" part is really just combination of their ideas that a)man needs ceremony in life and b)image is everything. While (b) might seem shallow, as Wesley R. Simpson, current Church Of Satan leader put it: "All religion is show-business, We're just the only church that admits it."
:All I'm saying is, if you had used the word "cult" to describe Scientology instead, that crazy cult would probably have tried to sue you. ;) --[[User:KxWaal|KxWaal]] [[User_talk:KxWaal/talk]] 21:55, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Church of Satan

2007-07-11T02:29:56Z

KxWaal:

{{Controversial}}

I just made a change to make it clear that the 9 sins according to the church of satan, including commentary contained therein, is from the Church of Satan's website. Even so, this article is unbalanced. Please add criticisms and/or other balancing material. Thanks. [[User:HeartOfGold|<big>H</big>eart<big>O</big>f<big>G</big>old]][[User_talk:HeartOfGold|talk]] 20:22, 20 May 2007 (EDT)

I have omitted the word "cult" from "cult beliefs". As there is no standardized definition of what separates a "cult" from a "religion", it would be best to refrain from using what is generally considered an offensive or condescending term. [[User:KxWaal|KxWaal]] 22:23, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

*Unacceptable. Sorry. --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 22:54, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

*(taken from http://www.cultinformation.org.uk/faq.html#cult)"Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following five characteristics:

1.It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members

2.It forms an elitist totalitarian society.

3.Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.

4.It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds recruit people.

5.Its wealth does not benefit its members or society."

If you can point out one characteristic out of these that the c.o.s. is guilty of, i'd like to know.
While the term "cult" can be used to loosely characterize any creed or doctrine, by this definition Christianity, Judaism etc. would also fall under the term. {{unsigned|KxWaal}}

:"A group or doctrine with religious, philosophical or cultural identity sometimes viewed as a sect, often existent on the margins of society." We don't need to point out any of the things you list above, we also don't mince our words for fear of "offending" the gentle souls at the Church of Satan. [[Image:User Fox.png]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 07:06, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

*KxWaal, I don't know of any major, or minor organized Christian religious group, nor any Rabinical Councils, that any of the 5 points applies to. Do you? --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 13:52, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

*TK, you have obviously misinterpreted what I said. I pointed out that I have found two differing definitions of the term "cult": The first being a group that can be characterized by those 5 points, the second one being a broad term that can define just about any creed. Mainstream Christianity definitely is not guilty of the prior, neither is Anton Lavey's idea of Satanism.
Satanism is really more of a philosophy anyhow. Think humanism with a fashion sense. The whole "church" part is really just combination of their ideas that a)man needs ceremony in life and b)image is everything. While (b) might seem shallow, as Wesley R. Simpson, current Church Of Satan leader put it: "All religion is show-business, We're just the only church that admits it."
All I'm saying is, if you had used the word "cult" to describe Scientology instead, that crazy cult would probably have tried to sue you. ;) --[[User:KxWaal|KxWaal]] [[User_talk:KxWaal/talk]] 21:55, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Church of Satan

2007-07-11T02:29:15Z

KxWaal:

{{Controversial}}

I just made a change to make it clear that the 9 sins according to the church of satan, including commentary contained therein, is from the Church of Satan's website. Even so, this article is unbalanced. Please add criticisms and/or other balancing material. Thanks. [[User:HeartOfGold|<big>H</big>eart<big>O</big>f<big>G</big>old]][[User_talk:HeartOfGold|talk]] 20:22, 20 May 2007 (EDT)

I have omitted the word "cult" from "cult beliefs". As there is no standardized definition of what separates a "cult" from a "religion", it would be best to refrain from using what is generally considered an offensive or condescending term. [[User:KxWaal|KxWaal]] 22:23, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

*Unacceptable. Sorry. --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 22:54, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

*(taken from http://www.cultinformation.org.uk/faq.html#cult)"Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following five characteristics:

1.It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members

2.It forms an elitist totalitarian society.

3.Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.

4.It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds recruit people.

5.Its wealth does not benefit its members or society."

If you can point out one characteristic out of these that the c.o.s. is guilty of, i'd like to know.
While the term "cult" can be used to loosely characterize any creed or doctrine, by this definition Christianity, Judaism etc. would also fall under the term. {{unsigned|KxWaal}}

:"A group or doctrine with religious, philosophical or cultural identity sometimes viewed as a sect, often existent on the margins of society." We don't need to point out any of the things you list above, we also don't mince our words for fear of "offending" the gentle souls at the Church of Satan. [[Image:User Fox.png]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 07:06, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

*KxWaal, I don't know of any major, or minor organized Christian religious group, nor any Rabinical Councils, that any of the 5 points applies to. Do you? --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 13:52, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

* TK, you have obviously misinterpreted what I said. I pointed out that I have found two differing definitions of the term "cult": The first being a group that can be characterized by those 5 points, the second one being a broad term that can define just about any creed. Mainstream Christianity definitely is not guilty of the prior, neither is Anton Lavey's idea of Satanism.
Satanism is really more of a philosophy anyhow. Think humanism with a fashion sense. The whole "church" part is really just combination of their ideas that a)man needs ceremony in life and b)image is everything. While (b) might seem shallow, as Wesley R. Simpson, current Church Of Satan leader put it: "All religion is show-business, We're just the only church that admits it."
All I'm saying is, if you had used the word "cult" to describe Scientology instead, that crazy cult would probably have tried to sue you. ;) --[[User:KxWaal|KxWaal]] [[User_talk:KxWaal/talk]] 21:55, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Church of Satan

2007-07-09T10:56:53Z

KxWaal:

Talk:Church of Satan

2007-06-29T02:23:48Z

KxWaal:

Church of Satan

2007-06-29T02:18:10Z

KxWaal:

The '''Church of Satan''' is a modern religious variation that has little to due with traditional satanism except for the title, as there is not actually a belief in [[satan]] himself. The founder is [[Anton Szandor LaVey]], as outlined in The Satanic Bible and other works. "Satan" is taken as a positive symbol of this [[world view]], an [[archetype]] or the ultimate symbol of the self and egotism. LaVey explains in an interview with The Washington Post magazine: "Satan is just a symbol, nothing more.... Satan signifies our love of the worldly and our rejection of the pallid, ineffectual image of Christ on the cross."

==God in Satanism==

Satanists do not believe that he is a god; rather the function of God is performed and satisfied by the Satanist him/herself. That is, the needs of worship, ritual, and religious/spiritual focus are directed, effectively, inwards towards the Satanist, as opposed to outwards, towards God.

LaVey proposes instead that as all gods are creations of man, worship of an external deity is worship of its creator by proxy. He suggests, then, that the rational Satanist should instead internalize his god, and therefore worship himself; hence the Satanic maxim, "I am my own god."

It follows that Satanism shuns the idea of belief in all other deities as well, including, to the surprise of many, Satan. Satan is viewed as a literary archetype, along the lines of John Milton's epic hero. This archetype is viewed not as a negative figure, but as a positive image of pride and mastery in opposition to servitude, faith, and humility.

Belief in any such externalized deities is generally considered grounds for excluding someone as a Satanist, and devil worship in particular is considered nothing more than a misguided inversion of Christianity.

== Beliefs ==
===The Nine Satanic Sins in the Church of Satan===
{{cquote|
#[[Stupidity]]—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.
#Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.
#[[Solipsism]]—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.
#Self-[[deceit]]—It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements” but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!
#Herd [[Conformity]]—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.
#Lack of [[Perspective]]—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.
#[[Forgetfulness]] of Past [[Orthodoxies]]—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.
#Counterproductive [[Pride]]—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.
#Lack of [[Aesthetics]]—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are [[sexy|universally pleasing and harmonious configurations]] that should not be denied.<ref>http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Sins.html</ref>}}
=== Satanic Principles ===
According to the European-American Evangelistic Crusades, the church of Satan believe in nine Satanic principles, among these:<ref>http://www.eaec.org/cults/satan.htm</ref>

*Indulgence, not abstinence.
*Vital existence, not spiritual pipe dreams.
*Undefiled wisdom, not hypocritical self-deceit.
*Kindness to those deserving of it, not love wasted on ingrates.
*Vengeance, not turning the other cheek.
*Man as just another animal - the most vicious of all.
*Gratification of all ones desires.

==See also==
* [[pentagram | inverted pentagram]]
* [[satanism]]

[[Category: Religion]]

==Reference==
<references/>

* ''Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language, Second Edition, Unabridged'', W.A. Neilson, T.A. Knott, P.W. Carhart (eds.), G. & C. Merriam Company, Springfield, MA, 1950.

Church of Satan

2007-06-29T02:17:51Z

KxWaal:

The '''Church of Satan''' is a modern religious variation that has little to due with traditional satanism except for the title, as there is not actually a belief in [[satan]] himself. The founder is [[Anton Szandor LaVey]], as outlined in The Satanic Bible and other works. "Satan" is taken as a positive symbol of this [[world view]], an [[archetype]] or the ultimate symbol of the self and egotism. LaVey explains in an interview with The Washington Post magazine: "Satan is just a symbol, nothing more.... Satan signifies our love of the worldly and our rejection of the pallid, ineffectual image of Christ on the cross."

==God in Satanism==

Satanists do not believe that he is a god; rather the function of God is performed and satisfied by the Satanist him/herself. That is, the needs of worship, ritual, and religious/spiritual focus are directed, effectively, inwards towards the Satanist, as opposed to outwards, towards God.

LaVey proposes instead that as all gods are creations of man, worship of an external deity is worship of its creator by proxy. He suggests, then, that the rational Satanist should instead internalize his god, and therefore worship himself; hence the Satanic maxim, "I am my own god."

It follows that Satanism shuns the idea of belief in all other deities as well, including, to the surprise of many, Satan. Satan is viewed as a literary archetype, along the lines of John Milton's epic hero. This archetype is viewed not as a negative figure, but as a positive image of pride and mastery in opposition to servitude, faith, and humility.

Belief in any such externalized deities is generally considered grounds for excluding someone as a Satanist, and devil worship in particular is considered nothing more than a misguided inversion of Christianity.

== beliefs ==
===The Nine Satanic Sins in the Church of Satan===
{{cquote|
#[[Stupidity]]—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.
#Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.
#[[Solipsism]]—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.
#Self-[[deceit]]—It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements” but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!
#Herd [[Conformity]]—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.
#Lack of [[Perspective]]—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.
#[[Forgetfulness]] of Past [[Orthodoxies]]—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.
#Counterproductive [[Pride]]—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.
#Lack of [[Aesthetics]]—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are [[sexy|universally pleasing and harmonious configurations]] that should not be denied.<ref>http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Sins.html</ref>}}
=== Satanic Principles ===
According to the European-American Evangelistic Crusades, the church of Satan believe in nine Satanic principles, among these:<ref>http://www.eaec.org/cults/satan.htm</ref>

*Indulgence, not abstinence.
*Vital existence, not spiritual pipe dreams.
*Undefiled wisdom, not hypocritical self-deceit.
*Kindness to those deserving of it, not love wasted on ingrates.
*Vengeance, not turning the other cheek.
*Man as just another animal - the most vicious of all.
*Gratification of all ones desires.

==See also==
* [[pentagram | inverted pentagram]]
* [[satanism]]

[[Category: Religion]]

==Reference==
<references/>

* ''Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language, Second Edition, Unabridged'', W.A. Neilson, T.A. Knott, P.W. Carhart (eds.), G. & C. Merriam Company, Springfield, MA, 1950.

Talk:Libertarianism

2007-06-29T01:07:02Z

KxWaal:

Jaques-- why did you delete the link to liberalism (which is a page that exists) but leave the link to classical liberalism (which is a page that doesnt exist)??--[[User:Redblue|Redblue]] 18:04, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Is that supposed to be humorist Dave Barry? Links would help on these people if they are important enough to be listed here. [[User:Human|Human]] 22:16, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm unsure how libertarianism is "closely" connected to liberalism. From the social point of view, this is evident; However, libertarians believe in small government, a viewpoint often shared by conservatives (except in times of war, it seems). [[User:KxWaal|KxWaal]] 22:16, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Libertarianism

2007-06-29T01:06:19Z

KxWaal: