Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Causes of atheism

2011-09-27T07:24:28Z

LeonardS: /* Surely there is one more reason? */

It is morally superior to attempt to do the right thing from the begining rather than live with the assumption that your sins will be forgiven. {{unsigned|Anyprophet}}

Hmm... this article is better than it used to be, it's more readable and seems more relevant. Ok Conservative. [[User:Feebasfactor|Feebasfactor]] 14:39, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

== Surely there is one more reason? ==
There is one major (possible) cause of atheism missing from this page, and it is stated on the main page for atheism (under "Atheism and Why do Atheists State They Disbelieve?"), it goes like this:
The atheist has been either been presented with evidence against or no evidence for the existence of God.
Many prominent atheists (Richard Dawkins et al) claim this is why they don't believe, and is clearly a cause of atheism.

please unlock this page or add this reason.

:What, you expect that Ken - sorry, [[User:Conservative]] - is going to unlock a page he's laid his holy atheist-repelling touch on? Please, read the [[Conservapedia Commandments]]. Especially the ones about how admins have to treat all editors with respect, rather than bullying them. Alternatively, and preferably, get yourself away from this nest of [[User:Conservative|lunatics]]. '''voiceoftruth2006''' --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 03:24, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

== In Need of Editing ==
Moral depravity: Moral depravity has been demonstrated in the atheist community through history and through various studies. In addition, Bible exegesis points to the moral depravity of atheists. Therefore, moral depravity is certainly one of the prime causes of atheism.

This line strikes me as having multiple flaws. First of all, if you follow the link to the Atheism page, nowhere does it cite a 'demonstration' or 'study' that demonstrates moral depravity in the atheist community throughout history. As such, the only real 'support' here are Biblical quotes. These quotes should be cited here instead of linked externally. The last line is also laughable: Therefore, (what is there that's been shown? 3 Biblical quotes?) moral depravity is certainly (such a strong word) one of the prime causes of atheism. This entire sentence is inferred by the article writer with no external referencing and, frankly, doesn't make much sense.--[[User:Reasonless|Reasonless]] 18:51, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

== I feel like I need to say something ==
*The article seems to present only causes based on the assumption that atheism is an incorrect position. It should really present some more neutral causes as well. Usual disclaimers apply. -[[User:CSGuy|CSGuy]] 15:30, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, really. Maybe some people just don't believe in God? Is that so unreasonable?

>> Yes, it's unreasonable to assume that atheism does not just happen. Scientific evidence and logical reasoning are not sufficient to give rise to atheism. Some event must have caused atheism such as; abusive upbringing, use of antidepressants, partial insanity, certain additives and toxins in food such at BT, ERDA, amoxicilin and other substances known to contribute to improper executive function of the human brain.

These are all neutral cases that show the causation of atheism and prove it is a consequence of mental deficiency.

:No, those are things you say cause atheism. Without documentation, they prove nothing. Why do you seem to have so much trouble accepting the idea that some people, as I do, honestly believe God does not exist? -[[User:CSGuy|CSGuy]] 20:10, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== unlock this article ==

unlock this article so I can add a template to it -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|12px]] [[User:Deborah|Deborah]] [[Special:Contributions/Deborah|(contributions)]] [[User_talk:Deborah|(talk)]] 12:36, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

== Added another reason ==
Personal Tragedy. There are some who have forsaken, quit, or otherwise stopped believing in any religion due to the loss of a loved one, or being crippled or something equally bad.

== Section to add to entry ==

I request that the entry be unlocked to be able to add another section: "Acculturation". Clearly, acculturation is a major cause of atheism. For example, the overwhelming majority of Japanese people do not believe in Yahweh/Jehovah; instead, they believe in Kami, an animist pantheon. Likewise, many times more Indians than the entire population of the US, are atheistic in regards to Yahweh/Jehovah; instead, they believe in the Hindu pantheon. This is due to the culture within which these people were raised, more than any other factor. [[User:Bricology|Bricology]] 15:05, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

[[Logical Necessity]]

The question of what we might consider to be an adequate concept of God, whether or not we wish to argue for the existence of such a being. Some profound remarks were made on this by J. N. Findlay in his article (‘Can God's Existence be Disproved?’ (Findlay 1949). The heathen may worship stocks and stones but does not see them as merely stocks and stones. More and more adequate conceptions of God still portray God as limited in various respects. A fully adequate conception of God, Findlay said, would see God as not only unlimited in various admirable properties but also as a necessarily existing being. Thus ‘There is one and only one God’ would have to be a logically necessary truth. Now logic, he held, is tautologous and without ontological commitment. So God's necessary existence would have to be something different from logical necessity. The trouble is how to see what this could be.

It might be replied that there are non-trivial necessary existential propositions in mathematics, such as ‘There are infinitely many primes’ which implies of course ‘the number 7 exists’. (We can ignore the unhelpful ‘Something exists’ which is allowed by standard first order logic purely for convenience as few would need to apply logic to discourse about an empty universe for which in any case there are separate rules for determining validity or otherwise.) It is well known that Frege in his Foundations of Arithmetic claimed to reduce arithmetic to logic. However in effect he was using a free logic without ontological commitment. Claims to reduce set theory (and so analysis) to logic are of course even more problematic. Would it help towards an adequate conception of God if we said that God has the sort of existence or non-existence that prime numbers have? One might say ‘not much’. In any case it is dangerous to talk of types of existence because it treats existence as though it was a property. At the time that he wrote his article Findlay was following the logical positivist line that logic and mathematics are alike tautologous. In the case of mathematics this can be seriously questioned. Also most theists would say that prime numbers are too abstract to be compared to God, though perhaps not John Leslie who has argued that God is a principle that brings value into existence (Leslie 1979 and 1989). We are still left with Findlay's challenge as to what a conception of God as a necessary being could be.

One thing that will not differentiate the theist from the atheist is to say that God, if he exists, is necessary in the sense of not being dependent on anything else for his existence. The atheist will say that the universe fits this bill because the universe contains everything that there is and so is not caused by anything else. It is indeed hard to see what an adequate conception of God and his necessary existence could be. For the purposes of this article, let us explore what the relations and lack of relations between atheism and agnosticism could be. Here we shall neglect the requirement of necessary existence and in a later section we shall consider the case of a posteriori arguments for the existence of a mind-like creator of the universe. Of course without the requirement of necessity it raises the intelligent child's question ‘Who made God?’ Still, this might be regarded as inevitable but excusable in an a posteriori argument in which the hypothesis of a purposive creator is put forward and claimed to be justified much in the manner of any scientific hypothesis.

== Really? ==

I just finished reading this article and, really? I'm sorry, but I thought this was Conservapedia, not Encyclopedia Dramatica. I don't see the skeptic wiki calling us "morally depraved", or stupid for believing in God, so why should we do it to them? Also all the sources are biased, and based on personal opinion, making them utterly pointless. - [[User:Mager]]
:You've made some apparently helpful contributions, but know that we don't respond kindly to these kinds of accusations. You're awfully new here to have discovered that there is a vandal site already. If you wish to deny that atheism leaves a person with no rational basis for morality, maybe Wikipedia would be better for you. If you're willing to accept the truth, and get over the shock of being exposed to harsh truth for the first time, then you're welcome to stay here and contribute. [[User:JacobB|JacobB]] 19:27, 10 December 2009 (EST)

::Despite your status as moderator, JacobB, I think Mager has a very valid point here. First, you list Moral Depravity as a cause of atheism, and all of the reasoning from you last post showed moral depravity as a result of atheism. Secondly, the Moral Depravity argument seems only to apply to Christian morals. While atheists may not adhere to strict Christian morals, many of their personal beliefs create a vast overlap in the vast field of ethics. For example, almost all atheists believe it is wrong to kill, based on the human emotion of empathy. Atheists don't want to be killed, so they won't kill others. You may point to instances of violence or mass murder by atheists, but mental problems that lead people to commit atrocious acts of violence exist in all groups of people, regardless of belief system. Take for example the horrible crimes perpetrated by the Spanish dictator Franco. Franco was a staunch Catholic fighting against the atheistic communists. Franco killed thousands, despite his Christian principles. Thus, I propose that while atheists may not abide by Christian morals, almost all people live under many of the same morals, such as not killing or harming others, no matter what system of beliefs they subscribe to.

::Also, this is a talk page. Mager shared a good point, and there is no reason to fire back at him with sarcastic remarks questioning his loyalties to this online encyclopedia. Also, I'm not sure how the age of Mager's account correlates to him being able to find possible errors or things to improve on. Finally, I would like to note that you, Jacob, did nothing to respond to Mager's critiques. Maybe Conservapedia will be able to gain more popularity if the "Talk" page becomes a dialogue in which ideas are tested and questioned rather than a place of dogma. Would you like me to defend myself from being blocked in advance? I'm accusing you of being dogmatic because you make no reference to Mager's points in your response. You solely state that the fact that moral depravity and atheism are inherently linked is true, and any suggestion to the contrary is false. Instead of blocking me, please consider responding to Mager's or my arguments to promote dialogue on the "Talk" page. -AlexanderMonroe
:::::The atheist the Marque De Sade had no feelings of empathy. Secondly, I don't think you convincingly showed that mere feelings (which certainly can include mere sentimentality ) is something you can build morality on. Stalin had feelings. Unfortunately, his feelings often involved lust for power and envy. Third, the atheists certainly don't have a good track record when it comes to charity and mass murder. Apparently, there are a lot of hard hearted atheists and the feelings thing isn't cutting the mustard. [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 20:42, 26 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::My whole point is that empathy for most atheists does create a certain level of morality. We can take turns taking pot shots at the other side by naming dictators or murderers who were aligned with the other side's belief system, but in reality most people, in general, are not murderers or criminals. I'm not sure I can convince you that empathy can be an adequate replacement for Christian morality without converting you to atheism. I was raised Catholic under Christian morals. I then reasoned myselfto atheism. I believe that the morals and punishments of Christianity do not bind me, but my actions as a person have not changed much. I realize that if I kill someone, there are reprecussions. I realize that there are reprecussions to even a failure to reciprocate an act of kindness. Based on empathizing with others and understanding the real world consequences of my actions, I have established a pattern of behavior that, for the most part, fits into your set of morals.
::::::::::Why is the per capita donations to charity even when church donations are not counted lower for atheists? Secondly, research shows that atheists exposed to Christianity donate higher than atheists who have not been exposed to Christianiy. [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 21:15, 26 May 2010 (EDT)
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imuaiRO5mSQ Christians Give more to Charity than Atheists] by Dr. [[William Lane Craig]] - [[YouTube]] video [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 21:23, 26 May 2010 (EDT)

== Really, Ken? ==

Don't you have ANYTHING to say about my challenge? There's no need to run away; if you don't want to debate a simple "No thank you, I'd rather not" will be quite sufficient. I mean, it's not like I'm some sort of power-crazed vindictive bigot or anything. '''voiceoftruth2006''' --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 03:16, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Causes of atheism

2011-09-27T07:16:15Z

LeonardS: /* Really, Ken? */ new section

It is morally superior to attempt to do the right thing from the begining rather than live with the assumption that your sins will be forgiven. {{unsigned|Anyprophet}}

Hmm... this article is better than it used to be, it's more readable and seems more relevant. Ok Conservative. [[User:Feebasfactor|Feebasfactor]] 14:39, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

== Surely there is one more reason? ==
There is one major (possible) cause of atheism missing from this page, and it is stated on the main page for atheism (under "Atheism and Why do Atheists State They Disbelieve?"), it goes like this:
The atheist has been either been presented with evidence against or no evidence for the existence of God.
Many prominent atheists (Richard Dawkins et al) claim this is why they don't believe, and is clearly a cause of atheism.

please unlock this page or add this reason.

== In Need of Editing ==
Moral depravity: Moral depravity has been demonstrated in the atheist community through history and through various studies. In addition, Bible exegesis points to the moral depravity of atheists. Therefore, moral depravity is certainly one of the prime causes of atheism.

This line strikes me as having multiple flaws. First of all, if you follow the link to the Atheism page, nowhere does it cite a 'demonstration' or 'study' that demonstrates moral depravity in the atheist community throughout history. As such, the only real 'support' here are Biblical quotes. These quotes should be cited here instead of linked externally. The last line is also laughable: Therefore, (what is there that's been shown? 3 Biblical quotes?) moral depravity is certainly (such a strong word) one of the prime causes of atheism. This entire sentence is inferred by the article writer with no external referencing and, frankly, doesn't make much sense.--[[User:Reasonless|Reasonless]] 18:51, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

== I feel like I need to say something ==
*The article seems to present only causes based on the assumption that atheism is an incorrect position. It should really present some more neutral causes as well. Usual disclaimers apply. -[[User:CSGuy|CSGuy]] 15:30, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, really. Maybe some people just don't believe in God? Is that so unreasonable?

>> Yes, it's unreasonable to assume that atheism does not just happen. Scientific evidence and logical reasoning are not sufficient to give rise to atheism. Some event must have caused atheism such as; abusive upbringing, use of antidepressants, partial insanity, certain additives and toxins in food such at BT, ERDA, amoxicilin and other substances known to contribute to improper executive function of the human brain.

These are all neutral cases that show the causation of atheism and prove it is a consequence of mental deficiency.

:No, those are things you say cause atheism. Without documentation, they prove nothing. Why do you seem to have so much trouble accepting the idea that some people, as I do, honestly believe God does not exist? -[[User:CSGuy|CSGuy]] 20:10, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

== unlock this article ==

unlock this article so I can add a template to it -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|12px]] [[User:Deborah|Deborah]] [[Special:Contributions/Deborah|(contributions)]] [[User_talk:Deborah|(talk)]] 12:36, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

== Added another reason ==
Personal Tragedy. There are some who have forsaken, quit, or otherwise stopped believing in any religion due to the loss of a loved one, or being crippled or something equally bad.

== Section to add to entry ==

I request that the entry be unlocked to be able to add another section: "Acculturation". Clearly, acculturation is a major cause of atheism. For example, the overwhelming majority of Japanese people do not believe in Yahweh/Jehovah; instead, they believe in Kami, an animist pantheon. Likewise, many times more Indians than the entire population of the US, are atheistic in regards to Yahweh/Jehovah; instead, they believe in the Hindu pantheon. This is due to the culture within which these people were raised, more than any other factor. [[User:Bricology|Bricology]] 15:05, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

[[Logical Necessity]]

The question of what we might consider to be an adequate concept of God, whether or not we wish to argue for the existence of such a being. Some profound remarks were made on this by J. N. Findlay in his article (‘Can God's Existence be Disproved?’ (Findlay 1949). The heathen may worship stocks and stones but does not see them as merely stocks and stones. More and more adequate conceptions of God still portray God as limited in various respects. A fully adequate conception of God, Findlay said, would see God as not only unlimited in various admirable properties but also as a necessarily existing being. Thus ‘There is one and only one God’ would have to be a logically necessary truth. Now logic, he held, is tautologous and without ontological commitment. So God's necessary existence would have to be something different from logical necessity. The trouble is how to see what this could be.

It might be replied that there are non-trivial necessary existential propositions in mathematics, such as ‘There are infinitely many primes’ which implies of course ‘the number 7 exists’. (We can ignore the unhelpful ‘Something exists’ which is allowed by standard first order logic purely for convenience as few would need to apply logic to discourse about an empty universe for which in any case there are separate rules for determining validity or otherwise.) It is well known that Frege in his Foundations of Arithmetic claimed to reduce arithmetic to logic. However in effect he was using a free logic without ontological commitment. Claims to reduce set theory (and so analysis) to logic are of course even more problematic. Would it help towards an adequate conception of God if we said that God has the sort of existence or non-existence that prime numbers have? One might say ‘not much’. In any case it is dangerous to talk of types of existence because it treats existence as though it was a property. At the time that he wrote his article Findlay was following the logical positivist line that logic and mathematics are alike tautologous. In the case of mathematics this can be seriously questioned. Also most theists would say that prime numbers are too abstract to be compared to God, though perhaps not John Leslie who has argued that God is a principle that brings value into existence (Leslie 1979 and 1989). We are still left with Findlay's challenge as to what a conception of God as a necessary being could be.

One thing that will not differentiate the theist from the atheist is to say that God, if he exists, is necessary in the sense of not being dependent on anything else for his existence. The atheist will say that the universe fits this bill because the universe contains everything that there is and so is not caused by anything else. It is indeed hard to see what an adequate conception of God and his necessary existence could be. For the purposes of this article, let us explore what the relations and lack of relations between atheism and agnosticism could be. Here we shall neglect the requirement of necessary existence and in a later section we shall consider the case of a posteriori arguments for the existence of a mind-like creator of the universe. Of course without the requirement of necessity it raises the intelligent child's question ‘Who made God?’ Still, this might be regarded as inevitable but excusable in an a posteriori argument in which the hypothesis of a purposive creator is put forward and claimed to be justified much in the manner of any scientific hypothesis.

== Really? ==

I just finished reading this article and, really? I'm sorry, but I thought this was Conservapedia, not Encyclopedia Dramatica. I don't see the skeptic wiki calling us "morally depraved", or stupid for believing in God, so why should we do it to them? Also all the sources are biased, and based on personal opinion, making them utterly pointless. - [[User:Mager]]
:You've made some apparently helpful contributions, but know that we don't respond kindly to these kinds of accusations. You're awfully new here to have discovered that there is a vandal site already. If you wish to deny that atheism leaves a person with no rational basis for morality, maybe Wikipedia would be better for you. If you're willing to accept the truth, and get over the shock of being exposed to harsh truth for the first time, then you're welcome to stay here and contribute. [[User:JacobB|JacobB]] 19:27, 10 December 2009 (EST)

::Despite your status as moderator, JacobB, I think Mager has a very valid point here. First, you list Moral Depravity as a cause of atheism, and all of the reasoning from you last post showed moral depravity as a result of atheism. Secondly, the Moral Depravity argument seems only to apply to Christian morals. While atheists may not adhere to strict Christian morals, many of their personal beliefs create a vast overlap in the vast field of ethics. For example, almost all atheists believe it is wrong to kill, based on the human emotion of empathy. Atheists don't want to be killed, so they won't kill others. You may point to instances of violence or mass murder by atheists, but mental problems that lead people to commit atrocious acts of violence exist in all groups of people, regardless of belief system. Take for example the horrible crimes perpetrated by the Spanish dictator Franco. Franco was a staunch Catholic fighting against the atheistic communists. Franco killed thousands, despite his Christian principles. Thus, I propose that while atheists may not abide by Christian morals, almost all people live under many of the same morals, such as not killing or harming others, no matter what system of beliefs they subscribe to.

::Also, this is a talk page. Mager shared a good point, and there is no reason to fire back at him with sarcastic remarks questioning his loyalties to this online encyclopedia. Also, I'm not sure how the age of Mager's account correlates to him being able to find possible errors or things to improve on. Finally, I would like to note that you, Jacob, did nothing to respond to Mager's critiques. Maybe Conservapedia will be able to gain more popularity if the "Talk" page becomes a dialogue in which ideas are tested and questioned rather than a place of dogma. Would you like me to defend myself from being blocked in advance? I'm accusing you of being dogmatic because you make no reference to Mager's points in your response. You solely state that the fact that moral depravity and atheism are inherently linked is true, and any suggestion to the contrary is false. Instead of blocking me, please consider responding to Mager's or my arguments to promote dialogue on the "Talk" page. -AlexanderMonroe
:::::The atheist the Marque De Sade had no feelings of empathy. Secondly, I don't think you convincingly showed that mere feelings (which certainly can include mere sentimentality ) is something you can build morality on. Stalin had feelings. Unfortunately, his feelings often involved lust for power and envy. Third, the atheists certainly don't have a good track record when it comes to charity and mass murder. Apparently, there are a lot of hard hearted atheists and the feelings thing isn't cutting the mustard. [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 20:42, 26 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::My whole point is that empathy for most atheists does create a certain level of morality. We can take turns taking pot shots at the other side by naming dictators or murderers who were aligned with the other side's belief system, but in reality most people, in general, are not murderers or criminals. I'm not sure I can convince you that empathy can be an adequate replacement for Christian morality without converting you to atheism. I was raised Catholic under Christian morals. I then reasoned myselfto atheism. I believe that the morals and punishments of Christianity do not bind me, but my actions as a person have not changed much. I realize that if I kill someone, there are reprecussions. I realize that there are reprecussions to even a failure to reciprocate an act of kindness. Based on empathizing with others and understanding the real world consequences of my actions, I have established a pattern of behavior that, for the most part, fits into your set of morals.
::::::::::Why is the per capita donations to charity even when church donations are not counted lower for atheists? Secondly, research shows that atheists exposed to Christianity donate higher than atheists who have not been exposed to Christianiy. [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 21:15, 26 May 2010 (EDT)
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imuaiRO5mSQ Christians Give more to Charity than Atheists] by Dr. [[William Lane Craig]] - [[YouTube]] video [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 21:23, 26 May 2010 (EDT)

== Really, Ken? ==

Don't you have ANYTHING to say about my challenge? There's no need to run away; if you don't want to debate a simple "No thank you, I'd rather not" will be quite sufficient. I mean, it's not like I'm some sort of power-crazed vindictive bigot or anything. '''voiceoftruth2006''' --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 03:16, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

Essay:Greatest Conservative Movies

2011-09-27T06:47:58Z

LeonardS: The Day of the Jackal? Yeah, celebrates conservative values like promiscuous bisexual mercenary assassins. Get rid.

'''There have been many superb [[conservative]] films''':

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
!Film
!Year
!Rating
!Comments
!Gross (Domestic)
|-
|''Witness''
|1985
|R
|Highlights the virtues of strong moral values, with more substance and excitement than ''High Noon''.
|$ 65,500,000
|-
|''[[Atlas Shrugged]]''
|2011
|PG-13
|Big screen adaptation of the classic objectivist text.
|$ 4,563,873
|-
|''[[Spider-Man]]''
|2002
|PG-13
|Praises moral virtue (hard-working teenager, devout aunt and well-meaning uncle) and pokes fun at [[liberals]] (entertainers and journalist). Hero chooses [[abstinence]]. This was one of the most profitable films ever made.
|$ 403,706,375
|-
|''[[Invasion of the Body Snatchers]]''
|1956
|UR
|A science fiction condemnation of [[communism]], produced for only $420,000 and remade successfully in three additional movies.
|$ 2,500,000
|-
|''[[The Exorcist]]''
|1973
|R
|(''not for children'') - A portrayal of pure evil against a positive characterization of [[Christianity]]. It broke the record for movie revenue.
|$ 441,071,011
|-
|''[[Dark Matter]]''
|2007
|R
|A candid look at [[professor values]] along with problems associated with lack of assimilation; [[liberal]]s first praised the movie, but after realizing its [[conservative]] message then panned it.
|$ 30,041
|-
|''Miracle''
|2004
|PG
|Movie about the United States hockey team which won the gold medal in the 1980 Winter Olympics. Stresses the important of hard work, resiliency, selflessness and putting your best effort forward to reach an unseen goal.
|$ 64,445,708
|-
|''[[Gone With the Wind]]''
|1939
|UR
|Celebrates a strongly ''feminine'' heroine who is the antithesis of a modern [[feminist]], and held the record for top-grossing movie for decades.
|$ 198,676,459
|-
|''[[Ben-Hur (film, 1959)|Ben-Hur]]''
|1959
|UR
|Celebrates honor and duty to family and country, with a pro-Christian ending, long held the record for the most [[Academy Awards]].
|$ 17,300,000
|-
|''[[Expelled | Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed]]''
|2008
|PG
|[[Ben Stein]] exposes [[evolution|evolutionists]]' scientific and education system [[deceit]].
|$ 7,690,545
|-
|''[[Hillary: The Movie]]''
|2008
|UR
|Citizens United film exposing Hillary Clinton. This movie led to the overturning of McCain-Feingold legislation by the [[U.S. Supreme Court]].
|NA - TV
|-
|''[[Indoctrinate U]]''
|2007
|UR
|Exposed political correctness, racial and ethnic politics in the academic setting. <ref>[http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3624795/9994231 Indoctrinate U -Part 1/3, Yahoo]</ref>
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Fireproof (film)|Fireproof]]''
|2008
|PG
|Highly successful pro-Christian, pro-marriage film created by [[Sherwood Pictures]].
|$ 33,451,479
|-
|''[[Beauty and the Beast]]''
|1991
|G
|A powerful and immensely popular antidote to [[feminism]], far better than the [[liberal]] movies churned out by [[Disney]] since.
|$ 25,487,028
|-
|''[[Titanic]]''
|1997
|PG-13
|Every life had value and the most powerful men gave up their seats on lifeboats to women and children first; the media and a young [[RINO]] are rightly criticized; broke the record in movie revenues.
|$ 600,779,824
|-
|''The Lives of Others''
|2006
|R
|(''Not for children'') - This German-language film is a stinging criticism of the [[communist]] [[East Germany]] from a liberal perspective.
|$ 11,286,112
|-
|''[[The Sound of Music]]''
|1965
|UR
|Solid family entertainment.
|$ 158,671,368
|-
|''[[Chinatown]]''
|1974
|UR
|A thriller about the deceit surrounding water rights in southern California and LA's water system, removing most of the water from the central valley.
|$ 30,000,000 (world wide estimate)
|-
|''[[The Fountainhead]]''
|1949
|UR
|Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal starring in Ayn Rand's classic story of the right of the individual to produce on their own terms.
|Unknown
|-
|''The Undefeated''
|2011
|PG-13
|Documentary about [[Sarah Palin]]
|$ 100,085 (to date)
|-
|''Moses''
|1974
|PG
|Italian-British-American production which features [[Burt Lancaster]] playing [[Moses]] the lawgiver. Less flamboyant than Cecil B. Demille's movie The Ten Commandments and focuses more on the biblical figure of Moses. Originally a 6-part TV mini-series, but edited to make it a movie.
|-
|''[[The Ten Commandments]]''
|1956
|UR
|The definitive film portrayal of [[Exodus]].
|$ 65,500,000
|-
|''[[Mr. Smith Goes To Washington]]''
|1939
|UR
|A tale of a good, simple man rising above the pressures of [[liberals]] to do the right thing. Features perhaps the best defense of the American political system ever committed to film.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Star Wars]]''
|1977-2005
|PG
|Simple truths about the triumph of good over evil.
|$460,998,007
|-
|''The Winning Team''
|1952
|UR
|[[Ronald Reagan]] stars as a baseball pitcher who overcomes his problems to help his team win. This was one of Reagan's own favorites.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[King of Kings]]''
|1961
|UR
|
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Iron Eagle]]''
|1986
|PG-13
|
|$ 24,159,872
|-
|''[[On The Waterfront]]''
|1954
|UR
|[[Marlon Brando]] plays Terry Malloy, who under the inspiration of a Catholic priest (Father Barry, played by [[Karl Malden]]), becomes a Christ-like figure. Betrayed by his brother and almost killed by the gang, he finds the strength to overcome and redeem his people from the slavery to the mobsters who run the waterfront. In stunning contrast to the liberals who kept silent about the Communist subversion in Hollywood, the film portrays the informer as the hero; liberal Hollywood never forgave director [[Elia Kazan]] for his stunning film. In real life, Kazan, Malden and screenwriter Budd Schulberg all testified before Congress, along with [[Ronald Reagan]]. Together they broke the power of the Reds in Hollywood.
|$ 9,600,000
|-
|''The Name of the Rose''
|1986
|R
|A mystery centered around the balance between faith and science, as well as debate over the role of poverty in religion and religious orders.
|$ 5,595,706
|-
|''[[Sergeant York]]''
|1941
|UR
|A young American soldier during WWI overcomes an unfounded religious objection to killing and becomes a war hero.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Knute Rockne: All-American]]''
|1940
|UR
|Stars [[Ronald Reagan]] as corageous football player George Gipp, who dies before an important game.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Ninotchka]]''
|1939
|UR
|
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Forbidden Planet]]''
|1956
|UR
|
|$ 3,000,000
|-
|''[[Rudy]]''
|1993
|PG
|A young man overcomes many obstacles, including dyslexia, to play for the [[Notre Dame]] football team. Shows the value of hard work and never giving up.
|$ 22,750,363
|-
|''[[The Prince of Egypt]]''
|1998
|PG
|A telling of the life of [[Moses]].
|$ 101,217,900
|-
|''[[Strategic Air Command (film)|Strategic Air Command]]''
|1955
|UR
|Actor (and Brigadier [[General]]) [[James Stewart]]'s story of the real [[Strategic Air Command]] and its transition from prop planes to jet planes.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[A Gathering of Eagles]]''
|1963
|UR
|Illustrates duty, honor, and the burden of command.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Red Dawn]]''
|1984
|PG-13
|
|$ 35,866,000
|-
|''[[Harry's War]]''
|1981
|PG
|Anti-IRS comedy.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The Patriot]]''
|2000
|R
|A patriot fights for American freedom during the [[American Revolution]].
|$ 113,330,342
|-
|''[[Ladder 49]]''
|2004
|PG-13
|Shows the courageousness of firefighters.
|$ 74,541,707
|-
|''[[Rocky]]''
|1976
|PG
|A talented but down-on-his-luck fighter gets a chance to challenge himself to the ends of his ability. This film reinforces man's ability to overcome challenges.
|$ 117,235,247
|-
|''[[October Sky]]''
|1999
|PG
|Four high school boys from a rural coal mining town, inspired by Sputnik, set out to build their own rockets and become rocket scientists.
|$ 32,481,825
|-
|''[[Amazing Grace (film)|Amazing Grace]]''
|2006
|PG
|Shows the horrors of slave trade.
|$ 21,208,358
|-
|''[[Bruce Almighty]]''
|2003
|PG-13
|Shows, in a comedic, accessible way, that no one mortal can successively do [[God]]'s job.
|$ 242,589,580
|-
|''[[World Trade Center]]''
|2006
|PG-13
|Highlights the bravery of the firemen and police in [[9/11]]
|$ 70,236,496
|-
|''[[Flight 93]]''
|2006
|PG-13
|Shows the bravery of the passengers on Flight 93, which was hijacked on September 11th, 2001, and crashed into a Pennsylvania field. The passengers fought back against the hijackers.
|NA - TV
|-
|''[[A Man For All Seasons]]''
|1966
|UR
|
|$ 20,000,000<ref>This figure is a worldwide gross.</ref>
|-
|''[[Chariots of Fire]]''
|1981
|PG
|
|$ 58,972,904
|-
|''[[One Foot In Heaven]]''
|1941
|UR
|
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Quo Vadis?]]''
|1951
|UR
|
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The Lost Weekend]]''
|1945
|UR
|Illustrates the dangers of alcohol abuse.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The Manchurian Candidate]]''
|1962
|PG-13
|Anti-communist in general, but with a swipe at [[Joseph McCarthy]].
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The Green Berets]]''
|1968
|G
|Vivid defense of our troops' conduct in the Vietnam War.
|$ 11,000,000
|-
|''[[My Son John]]''
|1952
|UR
|A small-town couple's world is turned upside-down by the discovery that their adult son is a Communist.
|Unknown
|-

|''[[True Lies]]''
|1994
|R
|Stars the future Republican governor of California, [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. Teaches conservative values like marital loyalty, and political incorrect facts such as the fact that most terrorists are Middle Eastern Arabic speakers who don't value human life.
|$ 146,261,000
|-
|''[[The Island]]''
|2005
|PG-13
|Pro-life statement against cloning to harvest organs.
|$ 35,799,026
|-
|''[[Evelyn]]''
|2002
|PG
|True story of Irish father's legal struggle to recover his kids from an orphanage.
|$ 1,483,975
|-
|''[[Shane]]''
|1953
|UR
|Western about defending a homesteading family.
|$ 20,000,000
|-
|''[[Lean on Me]]''
|1989
|PG-13
|A true story about combating drug use, violence, and contempt for authority while exalting positive values like academic achievement and family values.<ref>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097722/</ref>
|$ 31,906,454
|-
|''[[Hero]]''
|1992
|PG-13
|Even those with character flaws can do good.
|$ 19,487,173
|-
|''[[The 6th Day]]''
|2000
|PG-13
|Pro-Life, Anti-Cloning movie Featuring Republican Governor [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]
|$ 34,543,701
|-
|''Ghost Busters''
|1984
|PG
|Fitting satire of an unfair (and likely liberal) professor, paganism, and an EPA regulator.
|$ 238,632,124
|-
|[[Facing the Giants]]
|2006
|PG
|Trust in [[God]], let him take over, and good things will happen.
|$ 10,178,331
|-
|''Flash of Genius''
|2008
|PG-13
|The intellectual property of a hard-working, solitary inventor is promoted, and his children stuck by his side through enormous difficulties.
|$ 3,744,790
|-
|''Oh, God!''
|1977
|PG
|Acceptance of God's calling is rewarded, the faithful are vindicated, and naysayers are proven wrong.
|$ 41,687,243
|-
|''[[Courageous]]''
|2011
|PG-13
|Upcoming [[Sherwood Pictures]] film focusing on the role of fathers.
|
|-
|''[[Air Force One (film)|Air Force One]]''
|1997
|R
|Positively portrays a strong U.S. president who takes an uncompromising stance against terrorism. Includes positive material about family, authority, the military and sacrifice.
|$ 172,956,409
|-
|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring (film, 2001)|The Lord of the Rings: the Fellowship of the Ring]]''
|2001
|PG-13
|Clear distinction between good and evil with positive themes of friendship, bravery, honor, sacrifice and overcoming temptation.
|$ 314,776,114
|-
|''[[The Two Towers (film, 2002)|The Lord of the Rings: the Two Towers]]''
|2002
|PG-13
|Strong portrayals of redemption and good over evil.
|$ 340,478,898
|-
|''[[The Return of the King (2003 film)|The Lord of the Rings: the Return of the King]]''
|2003
|PG-13
|Bravery, heroism, sacrifice and good ultimately triumphing over evil.
|$ 377,027,325
|-
|''[[Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World]]''
|2003
|PG-13
|Promotes many positive conservative values including faith in God, patriotism, duty, honor, respect for authority, discipline, bravery, sacrifice, and friendship.
|$ 93,926,386
|-
|''[[The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe]]''
|2005
|PG
|Based upon the Christian allegory written by C.S. Lewis.
|$ 291,709,845
|-
|''[[The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian]]''
|2008
|PG
|
|$ 141,621,490
|-
|''[[The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader]]''
|2010
|PG
|
|$ 104,383,624
|-
|''Coach Carter''
|2005
|PG-13
|Promotes the theme that graduating from high school and having proper moral values are more important than becoming famous athletes.
|$ 67,253,092
|-
|''[[The Seventh Sign]]''
|1988
|R
|Starring Demi Moore, a fictional account of the return of Jesus to usher in the apocalypse and judge mankind. Catholic themed movie has Demi offering her life for the souls of others.
|$ 18,875,011
|-
|''[[Maafa21]]''
|2009
|UR
|This film explores the inception of [[Planned Parenthood]] as an organization created to destroy the Negro population. It exposes the words of its' racist founder [[Margaret Sanger]] and their impact on black genocide more than a century later. <ref>[http://www.maafa21.com www.maafa21.com]</ref>
|NA - DVD
|-
|''[[Twelve O'Clock High]]''
|1949
|UR
|A thrilling movie about the heroics of fighter pilots during [[World War II]]; used as an educational film for management training seminars.
|$ 3,225,000
|-
|''[[Escape from Hell]]''
|2000
|UR
|Drama about a doctor and near-death experience.
|NA - DVD
|-
|''[[Waiting for Superman]]''
|2010
|PG
|Documentary on the failed public school system.
|$ 6,410,257
|-
|''The Hurt Locker''
|2008
|R
|A look into the life of an American bomb disposal regiment in Iraq risking their lives for their country and for the innocent by confronting evil. Rated R for violence and language.
|$ 12,647,089
|-
|''The Tunnel'' (''Der Tunnel'')
|2001
|
|Based on a true story a group of East Berliners escaping harsh Communist rule and hatch a plan to help others escape that same oppressive regime.
|$ 10,890
|-
|''A Charlie Brown Christmas''
|1965
|G
|The real meaning of Christmas is discussed, as Linus quotes Luke 2:8-14. Decries the materialism that can surround the Christmas holiday.
|NA - TV
|-
|''The Room''
|2003
|R
|A tragedy showing the corrosive effects of [[liberal values]] like [[alcoholism]] and [[adultery]], while reflecting the conservative traits of [[charity]], innovation (in banking) and support for small business.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The Great Global Warming Swindle]]''
|2007
|UR
|Exposing the greatest fraud in the history of science.
|NA - TV
|-
|''[[Fiddler on the Roof]]''
|1971
|G
|A celebration of tradition, faith, and the importance of family, against a historical background of the persecution of Russian Jews.
|$ 50,000,000
|-
|''[[Kids Aren't Cars]]''
|2011
|UR
|How the teachers' unions are destroying our public schools. <ref>[http://www.kidsarentcars.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/KACOneSheet.pdf KAC Summary]</ref>
|Unknown
|-
|''[[How Should We Then Live]]''
|1976
|UR
|Christian film that traces Western history from Ancient Rome until 1976. A study of philosophic, scientific, and religious movements reflecting changing patterns.
|NA - TV
|-
|''[[Gattaca]]''
|1997
|PG-13
|A condemnation of human genetic engineering, and a wonderful triumph of individualism in an extremely totalitarian regime. Unfortunately the movie ends with a materialistic message: "They say every atom in our bodies was once a part of a star. So, maybe I'm not leaving, maybe I'm going home" (A phrase said when the protagonist finally managed to go to space).
|$ 12,339,633
|-
|''The Lion King''
|1994
|G
|A main message of the movie is honoring thy father, and the power-hungry main antagonist, once he becomes ruler, favors big government, pushes [[liberal values]] and destroys their territory.
|$ 312,825,899
|-
|''Space Jam''
|1996
|PG
|Michael Jordan uses the help of beloved children's characters from the '50s (a simpler time in America's history) to beat back foreign invaders who wish to take away our freedoms.
|$ 90,443,603
|-
|''Contact''
|1997
|PG
|The overall message is about how science and faith do not have to be in opposition to one another.
|$ 100,853,835
|-
|''The Sandlot''
|1993
|PG
|Honestly depicts 1950s America when boys acted like boys and girls acted like girls, wimps were taught to toughen up, and every boy had a chance to be great. No historical revisionism.
|$ 32,416,586
|-
|''I Confess''
|1953
|UR
|In this classic by Alfred Hitchcock, a clergyman honors his sacred vow of confidentiality with respect to a confession despite intense pressure to disclose it.
|Unknown
|-
|''Mr. Skeffinton''
|1944
|UR
|Bette Davis portrays a socialite whose life is ruined when she turns ugly with age. Anti-Nazi and anti-materialistic.
|Unknown
|-
|}

== Debatable Whether Conservative ==

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
!Film
!Year
!Rating
!Comments
!Gross (Domestic)
|-
|''[[The Passion of the Christ]]''
|2004
|R
|Downplays the [[Resurrection]],<ref>The original version of the film had no references at all to the Resurrection.</ref> and strength of Christianity and omits powerful angels; instead exaggerates triumph of evil; film had little lasting effect on public or its producer; portrayed nails as through the hands rather than through the wrists as depicted by the [[Shroud of Turin]] and confirmed by modern science.
|$ 370,782,930
|-

|''[[It's a Wonderful Life]]''
|1946
|UR
|Falsely teaches that humanism is what makes life worthwhile; marginalizes [[faith]] with a cartoonish depiction and demonizes capitalism as sadistic and greedy.
|$ 3,300,000
|-
|''[[High Noon]]''
|1952
|UR
|Bill Clinton saw this movie 20 times, and John Wayne said it was the most un-American movie ever;<ref>http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/47/highnoon.php</ref> though susceptible of various interpretations, most of all it seems to scare people into wanting more government.
|$ 3,750,000
|-
|''[[P.C.U.]]''
|1994
|PG-13
|College students fight back against a campus where the administration promotes official [[diversity]] awareness weekends and radical [[feminism]], [[vegan]]ism, and [[political correctness]] run amok, but a conservative group on campus is also portrayed just as negatively as the P.C. groups.
|$ 4,350,774
|-
|''Pillow Talk''
|1959
|UR
|A classic starring Rock Hudson and Doris Day in which conservative values triumph over liberal ones. There are no distortions by feminist ideology. Indeed, in one scene a leading man slaps the leading lady, but then is beaten up by dimwitted bystanders for it!
|$ 18,750,000
|-
|''[[Blues Brothers]]''
|1980
|R
|Comedy musical. A story of redemption, "A mission from God", raising money to save a Catholic orphanage. R-rated movie for vulgar language, slap stick comedy. Vatican approved. <ref>[http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/06/18/vatican-blesses-blues-brothers/ Vatican Calls The Blues Brothers “Catholic”, FOXNews, June 19, 2010]</ref>
|$ 57,229,890
|-
|''The Way We Were''
|1973
|PG
|Unique in the way that it appears liberal to liberals while unintentionally sending a [[conservative]] message to young women.
|$ 49,919,870
|-
|''Grease''
|1978
|PG-13
|Some [[conservative]] messages and no [[feminism]] or other [[political correctness]]; mocks [[public school]] and even [[television]].
|$ 153,113,000
|-
|''Fargo''
|1996
|R
|Pregnant sheriff with traditional American family values solves an elaborate criminal embezzlement, kidnapping and murder scheme.
|$ 24,611,975
|-
|''[[Juno (film)|Juno]]''
|2007
|PG-13
|A pregnant teenage woman rejects [[abortion]] and decides for an adoptive birth instead. This movie pushes [[feminism]] and marginalizes the essential role of fatherhood.
|$ 143,492,840
|-
|''[[The Dark Knight]]''
|2008
|PG-13
|Christian allegory with message of not giving in to terrorists, but the movie also arguably has some liberal themes as pointed on [[Talk:Essay:Greatest Conservative Movies]].
|$ 533,316,061
|-
|''Camelot''
|1967
|G
|The famous jousting scene is a powerful display of Christian values and chivalry, but the movie seems lost afterward.
|$ 31,102,578
|-
|}

== References ==
<references/>

[[Category:Essays about Conservatism]]
[[Category:Hollywood]]

Essay:Greatest Conservative Movies

2011-09-27T06:44:32Z

LeonardS: Is it conservative? Yes, but not by CP standards; Rand was an atheist and promoted that in her work.

'''There have been many superb [[conservative]] films''':

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
!Film
!Year
!Rating
!Comments
!Gross (Domestic)
|-
|''Witness''
|1985
|R
|Highlights the virtues of strong moral values, with more substance and excitement than ''High Noon''.
|$ 65,500,000
|-
|''[[Atlas Shrugged]]''
|2011
|PG-13
|Big screen adaptation of the classic objectivist text.
|$ 4,563,873
|-
|''[[Spider-Man]]''
|2002
|PG-13
|Praises moral virtue (hard-working teenager, devout aunt and well-meaning uncle) and pokes fun at [[liberals]] (entertainers and journalist). Hero chooses [[abstinence]]. This was one of the most profitable films ever made.
|$ 403,706,375
|-
|''[[Invasion of the Body Snatchers]]''
|1956
|UR
|A science fiction condemnation of [[communism]], produced for only $420,000 and remade successfully in three additional movies.
|$ 2,500,000
|-
|''[[The Exorcist]]''
|1973
|R
|(''not for children'') - A portrayal of pure evil against a positive characterization of [[Christianity]]. It broke the record for movie revenue.
|$ 441,071,011
|-
|''[[Dark Matter]]''
|2007
|R
|A candid look at [[professor values]] along with problems associated with lack of assimilation; [[liberal]]s first praised the movie, but after realizing its [[conservative]] message then panned it.
|$ 30,041
|-
|''Miracle''
|2004
|PG
|Movie about the United States hockey team which won the gold medal in the 1980 Winter Olympics. Stresses the important of hard work, resiliency, selflessness and putting your best effort forward to reach an unseen goal.
|$ 64,445,708
|-
|''[[Gone With the Wind]]''
|1939
|UR
|Celebrates a strongly ''feminine'' heroine who is the antithesis of a modern [[feminist]], and held the record for top-grossing movie for decades.
|$ 198,676,459
|-
|''[[Ben-Hur (film, 1959)|Ben-Hur]]''
|1959
|UR
|Celebrates honor and duty to family and country, with a pro-Christian ending, long held the record for the most [[Academy Awards]].
|$ 17,300,000
|-
|''[[Expelled | Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed]]''
|2008
|PG
|[[Ben Stein]] exposes [[evolution|evolutionists]]' scientific and education system [[deceit]].
|$ 7,690,545
|-
|''[[Hillary: The Movie]]''
|2008
|UR
|Citizens United film exposing Hillary Clinton. This movie led to the overturning of McCain-Feingold legislation by the [[U.S. Supreme Court]].
|NA - TV
|-
|''[[Indoctrinate U]]''
|2007
|UR
|Exposed political correctness, racial and ethnic politics in the academic setting. <ref>[http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3624795/9994231 Indoctrinate U -Part 1/3, Yahoo]</ref>
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Fireproof (film)|Fireproof]]''
|2008
|PG
|Highly successful pro-Christian, pro-marriage film created by [[Sherwood Pictures]].
|$ 33,451,479
|-
|''[[Beauty and the Beast]]''
|1991
|G
|A powerful and immensely popular antidote to [[feminism]], far better than the [[liberal]] movies churned out by [[Disney]] since.
|$ 25,487,028
|-
|''[[Titanic]]''
|1997
|PG-13
|Every life had value and the most powerful men gave up their seats on lifeboats to women and children first; the media and a young [[RINO]] are rightly criticized; broke the record in movie revenues.
|$ 600,779,824
|-
|''The Lives of Others''
|2006
|R
|(''Not for children'') - This German-language film is a stinging criticism of the [[communist]] [[East Germany]] from a liberal perspective.
|$ 11,286,112
|-
|''[[The Sound of Music]]''
|1965
|UR
|Solid family entertainment.
|$ 158,671,368
|-
|''[[Chinatown]]''
|1974
|UR
|A thriller about the deceit surrounding water rights in southern California and LA's water system, removing most of the water from the central valley.
|$ 30,000,000 (world wide estimate)
|-
|''[[The Fountainhead]]''
|1949
|UR
|Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal starring in Ayn Rand's classic story of the right of the individual to produce on their own terms.
|Unknown
|-
|''The Undefeated''
|2011
|PG-13
|Documentary about [[Sarah Palin]]
|$ 100,085 (to date)
|-
|''Moses''
|1974
|PG
|Italian-British-American production which features [[Burt Lancaster]] playing [[Moses]] the lawgiver. Less flamboyant than Cecil B. Demille's movie The Ten Commandments and focuses more on the biblical figure of Moses. Originally a 6-part TV mini-series, but edited to make it a movie.
|-
|''[[The Ten Commandments]]''
|1956
|UR
|The definitive film portrayal of [[Exodus]].
|$ 65,500,000
|-
|''[[Mr. Smith Goes To Washington]]''
|1939
|UR
|A tale of a good, simple man rising above the pressures of [[liberals]] to do the right thing. Features perhaps the best defense of the American political system ever committed to film.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Star Wars]]''
|1977-2005
|PG
|Simple truths about the triumph of good over evil.
|$460,998,007
|-
|''The Winning Team''
|1952
|UR
|[[Ronald Reagan]] stars as a baseball pitcher who overcomes his problems to help his team win. This was one of Reagan's own favorites.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[King of Kings]]''
|1961
|UR
|
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Iron Eagle]]''
|1986
|PG-13
|
|$ 24,159,872
|-
|''[[On The Waterfront]]''
|1954
|UR
|[[Marlon Brando]] plays Terry Malloy, who under the inspiration of a Catholic priest (Father Barry, played by [[Karl Malden]]), becomes a Christ-like figure. Betrayed by his brother and almost killed by the gang, he finds the strength to overcome and redeem his people from the slavery to the mobsters who run the waterfront. In stunning contrast to the liberals who kept silent about the Communist subversion in Hollywood, the film portrays the informer as the hero; liberal Hollywood never forgave director [[Elia Kazan]] for his stunning film. In real life, Kazan, Malden and screenwriter Budd Schulberg all testified before Congress, along with [[Ronald Reagan]]. Together they broke the power of the Reds in Hollywood.
|$ 9,600,000
|-
|''The Name of the Rose''
|1986
|R
|A mystery centered around the balance between faith and science, as well as debate over the role of poverty in religion and religious orders.
|$ 5,595,706
|-
|''[[Sergeant York]]''
|1941
|UR
|A young American soldier during WWI overcomes an unfounded religious objection to killing and becomes a war hero.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Knute Rockne: All-American]]''
|1940
|UR
|Stars [[Ronald Reagan]] as corageous football player George Gipp, who dies before an important game.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Ninotchka]]''
|1939
|UR
|
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Forbidden Planet]]''
|1956
|UR
|
|$ 3,000,000
|-
|''[[Rudy]]''
|1993
|PG
|A young man overcomes many obstacles, including dyslexia, to play for the [[Notre Dame]] football team. Shows the value of hard work and never giving up.
|$ 22,750,363
|-
|''[[The Prince of Egypt]]''
|1998
|PG
|A telling of the life of [[Moses]].
|$ 101,217,900
|-
|''[[Strategic Air Command (film)|Strategic Air Command]]''
|1955
|UR
|Actor (and Brigadier [[General]]) [[James Stewart]]'s story of the real [[Strategic Air Command]] and its transition from prop planes to jet planes.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[A Gathering of Eagles]]''
|1963
|UR
|Illustrates duty, honor, and the burden of command.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Red Dawn]]''
|1984
|PG-13
|
|$ 35,866,000
|-
|''[[Harry's War]]''
|1981
|PG
|Anti-IRS comedy.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The Patriot]]''
|2000
|R
|A patriot fights for American freedom during the [[American Revolution]].
|$ 113,330,342
|-
|''[[Ladder 49]]''
|2004
|PG-13
|Shows the courageousness of firefighters.
|$ 74,541,707
|-
|''[[Rocky]]''
|1976
|PG
|A talented but down-on-his-luck fighter gets a chance to challenge himself to the ends of his ability. This film reinforces man's ability to overcome challenges.
|$ 117,235,247
|-
|''[[October Sky]]''
|1999
|PG
|Four high school boys from a rural coal mining town, inspired by Sputnik, set out to build their own rockets and become rocket scientists.
|$ 32,481,825
|-
|''[[Amazing Grace (film)|Amazing Grace]]''
|2006
|PG
|Shows the horrors of slave trade.
|$ 21,208,358
|-
|''[[Bruce Almighty]]''
|2003
|PG-13
|Shows, in a comedic, accessible way, that no one mortal can successively do [[God]]'s job.
|$ 242,589,580
|-
|''[[World Trade Center]]''
|2006
|PG-13
|Highlights the bravery of the firemen and police in [[9/11]]
|$ 70,236,496
|-
|''[[Flight 93]]''
|2006
|PG-13
|Shows the bravery of the passengers on Flight 93, which was hijacked on September 11th, 2001, and crashed into a Pennsylvania field. The passengers fought back against the hijackers.
|NA - TV
|-
|''[[A Man For All Seasons]]''
|1966
|UR
|
|$ 20,000,000<ref>This figure is a worldwide gross.</ref>
|-
|''[[Chariots of Fire]]''
|1981
|PG
|
|$ 58,972,904
|-
|''[[One Foot In Heaven]]''
|1941
|UR
|
|Unknown
|-
|''[[Quo Vadis?]]''
|1951
|UR
|
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The Lost Weekend]]''
|1945
|UR
|Illustrates the dangers of alcohol abuse.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The Manchurian Candidate]]''
|1962
|PG-13
|Anti-communist in general, but with a swipe at [[Joseph McCarthy]].
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The Green Berets]]''
|1968
|G
|Vivid defense of our troops' conduct in the Vietnam War.
|$ 11,000,000
|-
|''[[My Son John]]''
|1952
|UR
|A small-town couple's world is turned upside-down by the discovery that their adult son is a Communist.
|Unknown
|-

|''[[True Lies]]''
|1994
|R
|Stars the future Republican governor of California, [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. Teaches conservative values like marital loyalty, and political incorrect facts such as the fact that most terrorists are Middle Eastern Arabic speakers who don't value human life.
|$ 146,261,000
|-
|''[[The Island]]''
|2005
|PG-13
|Pro-life statement against cloning to harvest organs.
|$ 35,799,026
|-
|''[[Evelyn]]''
|2002
|PG
|True story of Irish father's legal struggle to recover his kids from an orphanage.
|$ 1,483,975
|-
|''[[Shane]]''
|1953
|UR
|Western about defending a homesteading family.
|$ 20,000,000
|-
|''[[Lean on Me]]''
|1989
|PG-13
|A true story about combating drug use, violence, and contempt for authority while exalting positive values like academic achievement and family values.<ref>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097722/</ref>
|$ 31,906,454
|-
|''[[Hero]]''
|1992
|PG-13
|Even those with character flaws can do good.
|$ 19,487,173
|-
|''[[The Day of the Jackal]]''
|1973
|PG
|Celebrates conservative values like honor and duty.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The 6th Day]]''
|2000
|PG-13
|Pro-Life, Anti-Cloning movie Featuring Republican Governor [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]
|$ 34,543,701
|-
|''Ghost Busters''
|1984
|PG
|Fitting satire of an unfair (and likely liberal) professor, paganism, and an EPA regulator.
|$ 238,632,124
|-
|[[Facing the Giants]]
|2006
|PG
|Trust in [[God]], let him take over, and good things will happen.
|$ 10,178,331
|-
|''Flash of Genius''
|2008
|PG-13
|The intellectual property of a hard-working, solitary inventor is promoted, and his children stuck by his side through enormous difficulties.
|$ 3,744,790
|-
|''Oh, God!''
|1977
|PG
|Acceptance of God's calling is rewarded, the faithful are vindicated, and naysayers are proven wrong.
|$ 41,687,243
|-
|''[[Courageous]]''
|2011
|PG-13
|Upcoming [[Sherwood Pictures]] film focusing on the role of fathers.
|
|-
|''[[Air Force One (film)|Air Force One]]''
|1997
|R
|Positively portrays a strong U.S. president who takes an uncompromising stance against terrorism. Includes positive material about family, authority, the military and sacrifice.
|$ 172,956,409
|-
|''[[The Fellowship of the Ring (film, 2001)|The Lord of the Rings: the Fellowship of the Ring]]''
|2001
|PG-13
|Clear distinction between good and evil with positive themes of friendship, bravery, honor, sacrifice and overcoming temptation.
|$ 314,776,114
|-
|''[[The Two Towers (film, 2002)|The Lord of the Rings: the Two Towers]]''
|2002
|PG-13
|Strong portrayals of redemption and good over evil.
|$ 340,478,898
|-
|''[[The Return of the King (2003 film)|The Lord of the Rings: the Return of the King]]''
|2003
|PG-13
|Bravery, heroism, sacrifice and good ultimately triumphing over evil.
|$ 377,027,325
|-
|''[[Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World]]''
|2003
|PG-13
|Promotes many positive conservative values including faith in God, patriotism, duty, honor, respect for authority, discipline, bravery, sacrifice, and friendship.
|$ 93,926,386
|-
|''[[The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe]]''
|2005
|PG
|Based upon the Christian allegory written by C.S. Lewis.
|$ 291,709,845
|-
|''[[The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian]]''
|2008
|PG
|
|$ 141,621,490
|-
|''[[The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader]]''
|2010
|PG
|
|$ 104,383,624
|-
|''Coach Carter''
|2005
|PG-13
|Promotes the theme that graduating from high school and having proper moral values are more important than becoming famous athletes.
|$ 67,253,092
|-
|''[[The Seventh Sign]]''
|1988
|R
|Starring Demi Moore, a fictional account of the return of Jesus to usher in the apocalypse and judge mankind. Catholic themed movie has Demi offering her life for the souls of others.
|$ 18,875,011
|-
|''[[Maafa21]]''
|2009
|UR
|This film explores the inception of [[Planned Parenthood]] as an organization created to destroy the Negro population. It exposes the words of its' racist founder [[Margaret Sanger]] and their impact on black genocide more than a century later. <ref>[http://www.maafa21.com www.maafa21.com]</ref>
|NA - DVD
|-
|''[[Twelve O'Clock High]]''
|1949
|UR
|A thrilling movie about the heroics of fighter pilots during [[World War II]]; used as an educational film for management training seminars.
|$ 3,225,000
|-
|''[[Escape from Hell]]''
|2000
|UR
|Drama about a doctor and near-death experience.
|NA - DVD
|-
|''[[Waiting for Superman]]''
|2010
|PG
|Documentary on the failed public school system.
|$ 6,410,257
|-
|''The Hurt Locker''
|2008
|R
|A look into the life of an American bomb disposal regiment in Iraq risking their lives for their country and for the innocent by confronting evil. Rated R for violence and language.
|$ 12,647,089
|-
|''The Tunnel'' (''Der Tunnel'')
|2001
|
|Based on a true story a group of East Berliners escaping harsh Communist rule and hatch a plan to help others escape that same oppressive regime.
|$ 10,890
|-
|''A Charlie Brown Christmas''
|1965
|G
|The real meaning of Christmas is discussed, as Linus quotes Luke 2:8-14. Decries the materialism that can surround the Christmas holiday.
|NA - TV
|-
|''The Room''
|2003
|R
|A tragedy showing the corrosive effects of [[liberal values]] like [[alcoholism]] and [[adultery]], while reflecting the conservative traits of [[charity]], innovation (in banking) and support for small business.
|Unknown
|-
|''[[The Great Global Warming Swindle]]''
|2007
|UR
|Exposing the greatest fraud in the history of science.
|NA - TV
|-
|''[[Fiddler on the Roof]]''
|1971
|G
|A celebration of tradition, faith, and the importance of family, against a historical background of the persecution of Russian Jews.
|$ 50,000,000
|-
|''[[Kids Aren't Cars]]''
|2011
|UR
|How the teachers' unions are destroying our public schools. <ref>[http://www.kidsarentcars.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/KACOneSheet.pdf KAC Summary]</ref>
|Unknown
|-
|''[[How Should We Then Live]]''
|1976
|UR
|Christian film that traces Western history from Ancient Rome until 1976. A study of philosophic, scientific, and religious movements reflecting changing patterns.
|NA - TV
|-
|''[[Gattaca]]''
|1997
|PG-13
|A condemnation of human genetic engineering, and a wonderful triumph of individualism in an extremely totalitarian regime. Unfortunately the movie ends with a materialistic message: "They say every atom in our bodies was once a part of a star. So, maybe I'm not leaving, maybe I'm going home" (A phrase said when the protagonist finally managed to go to space).
|$ 12,339,633
|-
|''The Lion King''
|1994
|G
|A main message of the movie is honoring thy father, and the power-hungry main antagonist, once he becomes ruler, favors big government, pushes [[liberal values]] and destroys their territory.
|$ 312,825,899
|-
|''Space Jam''
|1996
|PG
|Michael Jordan uses the help of beloved children's characters from the '50s (a simpler time in America's history) to beat back foreign invaders who wish to take away our freedoms.
|$ 90,443,603
|-
|''Contact''
|1997
|PG
|The overall message is about how science and faith do not have to be in opposition to one another.
|$ 100,853,835
|-
|''The Sandlot''
|1993
|PG
|Honestly depicts 1950s America when boys acted like boys and girls acted like girls, wimps were taught to toughen up, and every boy had a chance to be great. No historical revisionism.
|$ 32,416,586
|-
|''I Confess''
|1953
|UR
|In this classic by Alfred Hitchcock, a clergyman honors his sacred vow of confidentiality with respect to a confession despite intense pressure to disclose it.
|Unknown
|-
|''Mr. Skeffinton''
|1944
|UR
|Bette Davis portrays a socialite whose life is ruined when she turns ugly with age. Anti-Nazi and anti-materialistic.
|Unknown
|-
|}

== Debatable Whether Conservative ==

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
!Film
!Year
!Rating
!Comments
!Gross (Domestic)
|-
|''[[The Passion of the Christ]]''
|2004
|R
|Downplays the [[Resurrection]],<ref>The original version of the film had no references at all to the Resurrection.</ref> and strength of Christianity and omits powerful angels; instead exaggerates triumph of evil; film had little lasting effect on public or its producer; portrayed nails as through the hands rather than through the wrists as depicted by the [[Shroud of Turin]] and confirmed by modern science.
|$ 370,782,930
|-

|''[[It's a Wonderful Life]]''
|1946
|UR
|Falsely teaches that humanism is what makes life worthwhile; marginalizes [[faith]] with a cartoonish depiction and demonizes capitalism as sadistic and greedy.
|$ 3,300,000
|-
|''[[High Noon]]''
|1952
|UR
|Bill Clinton saw this movie 20 times, and John Wayne said it was the most un-American movie ever;<ref>http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/47/highnoon.php</ref> though susceptible of various interpretations, most of all it seems to scare people into wanting more government.
|$ 3,750,000
|-
|''[[P.C.U.]]''
|1994
|PG-13
|College students fight back against a campus where the administration promotes official [[diversity]] awareness weekends and radical [[feminism]], [[vegan]]ism, and [[political correctness]] run amok, but a conservative group on campus is also portrayed just as negatively as the P.C. groups.
|$ 4,350,774
|-
|''Pillow Talk''
|1959
|UR
|A classic starring Rock Hudson and Doris Day in which conservative values triumph over liberal ones. There are no distortions by feminist ideology. Indeed, in one scene a leading man slaps the leading lady, but then is beaten up by dimwitted bystanders for it!
|$ 18,750,000
|-
|''[[Blues Brothers]]''
|1980
|R
|Comedy musical. A story of redemption, "A mission from God", raising money to save a Catholic orphanage. R-rated movie for vulgar language, slap stick comedy. Vatican approved. <ref>[http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/06/18/vatican-blesses-blues-brothers/ Vatican Calls The Blues Brothers “Catholic”, FOXNews, June 19, 2010]</ref>
|$ 57,229,890
|-
|''The Way We Were''
|1973
|PG
|Unique in the way that it appears liberal to liberals while unintentionally sending a [[conservative]] message to young women.
|$ 49,919,870
|-
|''Grease''
|1978
|PG-13
|Some [[conservative]] messages and no [[feminism]] or other [[political correctness]]; mocks [[public school]] and even [[television]].
|$ 153,113,000
|-
|''Fargo''
|1996
|R
|Pregnant sheriff with traditional American family values solves an elaborate criminal embezzlement, kidnapping and murder scheme.
|$ 24,611,975
|-
|''[[Juno (film)|Juno]]''
|2007
|PG-13
|A pregnant teenage woman rejects [[abortion]] and decides for an adoptive birth instead. This movie pushes [[feminism]] and marginalizes the essential role of fatherhood.
|$ 143,492,840
|-
|''[[The Dark Knight]]''
|2008
|PG-13
|Christian allegory with message of not giving in to terrorists, but the movie also arguably has some liberal themes as pointed on [[Talk:Essay:Greatest Conservative Movies]].
|$ 533,316,061
|-
|''Camelot''
|1967
|G
|The famous jousting scene is a powerful display of Christian values and chivalry, but the movie seems lost afterward.
|$ 31,102,578
|-
|}

== References ==
<references/>

[[Category:Essays about Conservatism]]
[[Category:Hollywood]]

User talk:BillyWest

2011-09-27T06:12:22Z

LeonardS:

God Bless the USA. And Nowhere else ;)
:Well said, Billy. The world is laughing, er, ''with'' you. '''voiceoftruth2006''' --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 02:12, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

User talk:DrDean

2011-09-27T04:32:52Z

LeonardS: /* quick note */

{{welcome|sig=--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 19:13, 1 September 2011 (EDT)}}
:Thanks!

== XiNO Edit ==

I'm slightly confused by what your trying to state, especially at the end with Pauline christianity, which for all accounts IS Christianity, as messianic Jews and Jewish Christians are either not mainstream or are basically dead.--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 23:00, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
:I included that so as not to step on anyone's toes. There are non-Pauline Christians remaining by tradition and those who have retroactively cut Paul from the bible. Paul wrote that, and I was just talking about how I interpret what Paul wrote, and how it guides me in evaluating other Christians. I believe that the salvation of the New Covenant is incompatible with the legalism of the Old Testament and I believe that we all have deal breakers in our thoughts and in our deeds. Since we are all sinners Our duty should be towards finding salvation in the heart of our lord Jesus rather than bickering over who is blacker, the pot or the kettle. --[[User:DrDean|DrDean]] 23:54, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

== Published category ==

I saw your change to the categories in [[Essay: Worst Liberal Books|this essay]], and I greatly appreciate your quick response. Your change is more than satisfactory, so unless anyone objects, I think it's fine to remain. Thank you again! [[User:KevinDavis|Kevin Davis]] [[User talk:KevinDavis|Talk]] 23:38, 22 September 2011 (EDT)

== quick note ==

An atheist internet vandal community of obscure atheists had an opportunity to debate me, but they blew it. All they had to do is give $20,000 to a trustworthy Christian and have that person donate money to a Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability certified Christian relief organization. They never showed they had a trustworthy Christian and I suggested giving the money to a Bible believing pastor. However, they chose not to which was no big deal to me as I didn't feel they wanted to meet my conditions anyways. As far as my personal schedule, while I do value being flexible, I did not stick to some priorities I set for myself and in retrospect, I shouldn't have done this, but there are certainly still a lot of opportunities to pursue in the world and there is no sense crying over spilled milk.

With that being said, if you would like to see some non-obscure atheists debate me, have them make me an attractive offer and I certainly can consider their offer. Given that [[global Christianity]] is a vibrant and growing community and the atheist community is losing about 300 people a day, I would think there would be an eagerness on their part to debate members of Christendom to try to turn things around despite the fact that God never loses and Christians time and time again are victorious over atheists in debate due to the utter weakness of atheism (see: [[Atheism and Debate]]). Richard Dawkins and Penn Jillette do seem to realize that atheism is worldview for fools and it cannot be credibly defended (See: [[Daniel Came]]). By the way, my debate offer to Penn Jillette still stands, but he does seem to be rather timid when it comes to debating. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:00, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:ALL they had to do was cough up $20K (actually I believe you demanded $27K, but I could be wrong) for the privilege of debating you? You value yourself too highly, Ken. And remind me, please, what happened when someone actually offered to PAY the $27,000 to debate you? Who was it that chickened out, exactly? --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:32, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:::So a bunch of atheists didn't want to pay $20,000 to debate an anonymous person on the internet? That is not surprising in the slightest. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 00:19, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
::::"All they had to do is give $20,000". Is that right? Is it $20,000 to have the privilege to debate with Conservative ?--[[User:ARamis|ARamis]] 00:22, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:I'm new and I don't want to start a fight, but didn't they offer to pay the $27,000 then pull out because you refused to identify yourself? --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:03, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
::I have no idea who or what you are talking about. I don't really do debates, or watch them. If you want someone to organize a debate for you you need to go ask someone else. I am very confused as to why this is on my talk page. --[[User:DrDean|DrDean]] 00:08, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:::Would you debate the YouTube atheist Voiceoftruth2006? He'd be happy for you to do an audio-only debate, so you wouldn't need to reveal your identity. You can check his atheist/evolutionist credentials at his YT channel: [http://www.youtube.com/user/voiceoftruth2006?feature=mhee] --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:09, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
::::Perhaps this discussion could happen on someone else's page, I will not be debating anyone anytime soon. --[[User:DrDean|DrDean]] 00:11, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:::DrDean, if you want to feign ignorance, I have no problem with that. I do briefly want to tell LeanardS they didn't meet my conditions and I am certainly under no obligation to meet conditions of obscure atheists who run vandal websites. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:13, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:::::Oh, but internationally known personalities like [[Richard Dawkins]], [[PZ Myers]] and [[Penn Jillette]] are under some obligation to debate with you or your "friend" Shockofgod? Interesting. Please, Ken, do explain the difference. --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:21, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
::::No problem; I'll start a new section on Ken's talk page about it.

::::Oh wait, I can't. So I'll move it to the [[talk:cowardice]] page instead. That seems appropriate. --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:15, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

User talk:DrDean

2011-09-27T04:21:18Z

LeonardS: /* quick note */

{{welcome|sig=--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 19:13, 1 September 2011 (EDT)}}
:Thanks!

== XiNO Edit ==

I'm slightly confused by what your trying to state, especially at the end with Pauline christianity, which for all accounts IS Christianity, as messianic Jews and Jewish Christians are either not mainstream or are basically dead.--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 23:00, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
:I included that so as not to step on anyone's toes. There are non-Pauline Christians remaining by tradition and those who have retroactively cut Paul from the bible. Paul wrote that, and I was just talking about how I interpret what Paul wrote, and how it guides me in evaluating other Christians. I believe that the salvation of the New Covenant is incompatible with the legalism of the Old Testament and I believe that we all have deal breakers in our thoughts and in our deeds. Since we are all sinners Our duty should be towards finding salvation in the heart of our lord Jesus rather than bickering over who is blacker, the pot or the kettle. --[[User:DrDean|DrDean]] 23:54, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

== Published category ==

I saw your change to the categories in [[Essay: Worst Liberal Books|this essay]], and I greatly appreciate your quick response. Your change is more than satisfactory, so unless anyone objects, I think it's fine to remain. Thank you again! [[User:KevinDavis|Kevin Davis]] [[User talk:KevinDavis|Talk]] 23:38, 22 September 2011 (EDT)

== quick note ==

An atheist internet vandal community of obscure atheists had an opportunity to debate me, but they blew it. All they had to do is give $20,000 to a trustworthy Christian and have that person donate money to a Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability certified Christian relief organization. They never showed they had a trustworthy Christian and I suggested giving the money to a Bible believing pastor. However, they chose not to which was no big deal to me as I didn't feel they wanted to meet my conditions anyways. As far as my personal schedule, while I do value being flexible, I did not stick to some priorities I set for myself and in retrospect, I shouldn't have done this, but there are certainly still a lot of opportunities to pursue in the world and there is no sense crying over spilled milk.

With that being said, if you would like to see some non-obscure atheists debate me, have them make me an attractive offer and I certainly can consider their offer. Given that [[global Christianity]] is a vibrant and growing community and the atheist community is losing about 300 people a day, I would think there would be an eagerness on their part to debate members of Christendom to try to turn things around despite the fact that God never loses and Christians time and time again are victorious over atheists in debate due to the utter weakness of atheism (see: [[Atheism and Debate]]). Richard Dawkins and Penn Jillette do seem to realize that atheism is worldview for fools and it cannot be credibly defended (See: [[Daniel Came]]). By the way, my debate offer to Penn Jillette still stands, but he does seem to be rather timid when it comes to debating. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:00, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:::So a bunch of atheists didn't want to pay $20,000 to debate an anonymous person on the internet? That is not surprising in the slightest. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 00:19, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:I'm new and I don't want to start a fight, but didn't they offer to pay the $27,000 then pull out because you refused to identify yourself? --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:03, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
::I have no idea who or what you are talking about. I don't really do debates, or watch them. If you want someone to organize a debate for you you need to go ask someone else. I am very confused as to why this is on my talk page. --[[User:DrDean|DrDean]] 00:08, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:::Would you debate the YouTube atheist Voiceoftruth2006? He'd be happy for you to do an audio-only debate, so you wouldn't need to reveal your identity. You can check his atheist/evolutionist credentials at his YT channel: [http://www.youtube.com/user/voiceoftruth2006?feature=mhee] --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:09, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
::::Perhaps this discussion could happen on someone else's page, I will not be debating anyone anytime soon. --[[User:DrDean|DrDean]] 00:11, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:::DrDean, if you want to feign ignorance, I have no problem with that. I do briefly want to tell LeanardS they didn't meet my conditions and I am certainly under no obligation to meet conditions of obscure atheists who run vandal websites. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:13, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:::::Oh, but internationally known personalities like [[Richard Dawkins]], [[PZ Myers]] and [[Penn Jillette]] are under some obligation to debate with you or your "friend" Shockofgod? Interesting. Please, Ken, do explain the difference. --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:21, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
::::No problem; I'll start a new section on Ken's talk page about it.

::::Oh wait, I can't. So I'll move it to the [[talk:cowardice]] page instead. That seems appropriate. --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:15, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

User talk:DrDean

2011-09-27T04:15:56Z

LeonardS: /* quick note */

{{welcome|sig=--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 19:13, 1 September 2011 (EDT)}}
:Thanks!

== XiNO Edit ==

I'm slightly confused by what your trying to state, especially at the end with Pauline christianity, which for all accounts IS Christianity, as messianic Jews and Jewish Christians are either not mainstream or are basically dead.--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 23:00, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
:I included that so as not to step on anyone's toes. There are non-Pauline Christians remaining by tradition and those who have retroactively cut Paul from the bible. Paul wrote that, and I was just talking about how I interpret what Paul wrote, and how it guides me in evaluating other Christians. I believe that the salvation of the New Covenant is incompatible with the legalism of the Old Testament and I believe that we all have deal breakers in our thoughts and in our deeds. Since we are all sinners Our duty should be towards finding salvation in the heart of our lord Jesus rather than bickering over who is blacker, the pot or the kettle. --[[User:DrDean|DrDean]] 23:54, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

== Published category ==

I saw your change to the categories in [[Essay: Worst Liberal Books|this essay]], and I greatly appreciate your quick response. Your change is more than satisfactory, so unless anyone objects, I think it's fine to remain. Thank you again! [[User:KevinDavis|Kevin Davis]] [[User talk:KevinDavis|Talk]] 23:38, 22 September 2011 (EDT)

== quick note ==

An atheist internet vandal community of obscure atheists had an opportunity to debate me, but they blew it. All they had to do is give $20,000 to a trustworthy Christian and have that person donate money to a Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability certified Christian relief organization. They never showed they had a trustworthy Christian and I suggested giving the money to a Bible believing pastor. However, they chose not to which was no big deal to me as I didn't feel they wanted to meet my conditions anyways. As far as my personal schedule, while I do value being flexible, I did not stick to some priorities I set for myself and in retrospect, I shouldn't have done this, but there are certainly still a lot of opportunities to pursue in the world and there is no sense crying over spilled milk.

With that being said, if you would like to see some non-obscure atheists debate me, have them make me an attractive offer and I certainly can consider their offer. Given that [[global Christianity]] is a vibrant and growing community and the atheist community is losing about 300 people a day, I would think there would be an eagerness on their part to debate members of Christendom to try to turn things around despite the fact that God never loses and Christians time and time again are victorious over atheists in debate due to the utter weakness of atheism (see: [[Atheism and Debate]]). Richard Dawkins and Penn Jillette do seem to realize that atheism is worldview for fools and it cannot be credibly defended (See: [[Daniel Came]]). By the way, my debate offer to Penn Jillette still stands, but he does seem to be rather timid when it comes to debating. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:00, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:I'm new and I don't want to start a fight, but didn't they offer to pay the $27,000 then pull out because you refused to identify yourself? --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:03, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
::I have no idea who or what you are talking about. I don't really do debates, or watch them. If you want someone to organize a debate for you you need to go ask someone else. I am very confused as to why this is on my talk page. --[[User:DrDean|DrDean]] 00:08, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:::Would you debate the YouTube atheist Voiceoftruth2006? He'd be happy for you to do an audio-only debate, so you wouldn't need to reveal your identity. You can check his atheist/evolutionist credentials at his YT channel: [http://www.youtube.com/user/voiceoftruth2006?feature=mhee] --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:09, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
::::Perhaps this discussion could happen on someone else's page, I will not be debating anyone anytime soon. --[[User:DrDean|DrDean]] 00:11, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
:::DrDean, if you want to feign ignorance, I have no problem with that. I do briefly want to tell LeanardS they didn't meet my conditions and I am certainly under no obligation to meet conditions of obscure atheists who run vandal websites. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:13, 27 September 2011 (EDT)
::::No problem; I'll start a new section on Ken's talk page about it.

::::Oh wait, I can't. So I'll move it to the [[talk:cowardice]] page instead. That seems appropriate. --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 00:15, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

User talk:DrDean

2011-09-27T04:09:45Z

LeonardS: /* quick note */

User talk:DrDean

2011-09-27T04:03:55Z

LeonardS: /* quick note */

Cowardice

2011-09-27T03:50:28Z

LeonardS: Undo revision 921793 by Karajou (talk)Looks like a good edit to me. He's talking about Penn Jillette, right?

'''Cowardice''' is lack of resolve, fortitude, or bravery. A coward is typically seen as being intrinsically weak. Cowardice is not the same as fear, a lack of fear is not bravery it is stupidity, a coward simply does not know how to deal with their fear like a whole, complete, regular adult person. <ref>[http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/239709/am_i_a_coward_for_having_fear.html?cat=9 Am I a coward for having fear?] Associated Content, Retrieved Sept 17th 2011</ref>

Cowardice comes with a handful of characteristics which you can easily recognize with a little practice. A coward will typically show a lot of false courage, and braggadocio, but when confronted will respond first with dishonesty, and then slink away. A coward will often invent excuses for avoiding conflict, a wide open schedule will suddenly become full, an acceptable medium for communication will suddenly become unacceptable, an acceptable opponent will become untouchable for some minor reason. <ref>[http://www.ehow.com/info_8544298_signs-coward.html Signs of a coward] eHow, Retrieved Sept 17th 2011</ref>

== See also ==

*[[Atheism and cowardice]]

== References ==

<references/>

[[Category: Morality]]

P.J. O'Rourke

2011-09-27T00:34:30Z

LeonardS:

'''P.J. O'Rourke''' is a [[conservative]] [[libertarian]] American humorist. As well working as a staff reporter for ''[[Rolling Stone]]'' magazine and editing the ''[[National Lampoon]]'', O'Rourke has published many of his own books including ''Republican Party Reptile, All the Trouble in the World, Peace Kills'' and ''Eat the Rich''. He is a frequent guest on the [[NPR]]
radio program ''Wait Wait . . . Don't Tell Me!''

==Early political views==

As a student in the 1960s O'Rourke was a [[Maoist]] hippie agitator. He was involved in a number of leftist activities including protests against the [[Vietnam War]] and frequent abuse of illegal drugs. However he claims to have realised his error on starting his first job and receiving his first pay cheque, complete with tax deductions:

''"Here I'd been fighting to bring Communism to America, and all the time it was already here. And it sucked."''

==Writing==

O'Rourke has written a number of books dealing with conservative themes, including:

''Republican Party Reptile''

''Eat the Rich''

''Parliament of Whores''

''Give War a Chance''

''The CEO of the Sofa''

''Holidays in Hell'' (although this is somewhat critical of Israel)

''Age and Guile beat Youth, Innocence and a Bad Haircut''

He has also written a number of pure humour books, including ''The Bachelor's Home Companion''.

{{DEFAULTSORT: O'Rourke, P.J.}}
[[category:authors]]
[[Category:Columnists]]

Talk:Pj o'rourke

2011-09-27T00:32:18Z

LeonardS:

Get his name correct in the title of the article: [[P.J. O'Rourke]] and you'll see we already have an article on the guy. [[User:BrentH|BrentH]] 20:26, 26 September 2011 (EDT)
:OK, sorry, what screwed me up was the periods in his initials; I just searched for "PJ O'Rourke" and obviously found nothing. I'll merge my stuff into the existing article then someone can delete mine. --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 20:32, 26 September 2011 (EDT)

Wine

2011-09-27T00:13:40Z

LeonardS: Blue Nun is no longer described as Liebfraumilch and probably doesn't qualify as such under German law. Oh yeah, and its really bad.

[[Image:wine.jpg|right|thumb|400px|A wine tasting barrel]]
'''Wine''' is an [[alcoholic beverage]] made by fermenting [[grape]]s. Although most wines are made from grapes, other [[fruit]]s can be used. Grains can be used to produce wine, for example, barley wine, but this is more akin to a [[beer]] than a wine.

Wines are categorized by color. Red wine, white wine and rose (pink) wine are the three main types and are given their characteristic color by the types of grapes used in their production. Red wine is usually served at room temperature whereas the others are served chilled.

==Production==

Traditionally grapes were trampled by barefooted vineyard workers to produce a pulp, which was fermented to produce a rich, fruity alcoholic drink. Today this process in most commercial vineyards is mechanized although many "fine wine" producers such as the D'Arenberg vintners in [[Australia]] still proudly claim their wines are 100% foot pressed.

Modern methods of crushing wine involve multiple steps. Initially grapes are simply crushed by their own pressure in vats - rendering the 'free run' juices. Consequently grapes are softly pressed, usually by metal crushers but for high quality wines basket presses are generally used. Finally for the lowest quality of wine the grapes are fully crushed including the skin and pith - delivering a bitter, often tannic must. White wine is usually briefly left in the vat with the crushed skin to add flavour, whereas red wine is typically taken off the skins and pith immediately to avoid excessive tannins and acids. Wine production in some countries such as Turkey is vastly different, involving mixing vats and crushing through wooden bats.

Once pressed, wines are left to mature in vats, large containers made from [[oak]], which add [[flavor]] to the wine. Fine wine takes longer to develop a mature flavor. Cheaper wines may have oak chippings added to give a similar flavor without the need to mature for as long.

==Alcohol Content==

Wines usually range from 10% to 14% [[ABV]]. Stronger wines such as [[port]] and [[sherry]] are classed as fortified wines. These require further refinement and are sold as such. Certain sweet varietals such as [[Riesling]], [[Moscato d'Asti]], and [[Lambrusco]] are routinely prepared with less than 10% ABV.

==Production==

Wine is produced throughout the world. The top twenty leading wine-producing countries in order of total production are:<ref>http://www.wineinstitute.org/communications/statistics/keyfacts_worldwineproduction02.htm</ref> [[France]], [[Italy]], [[Spain]], [[United States of America|USA]], [[Argentina]], [[Czech Republic]], [[China]], [[Australia]], [[Germany]], [[Portugal]], [[South Africa]], [[Chile]], [[Hungary]], [[Romania]], [[Greece]], [[Russia]], [[Brazil]], [[Austria]], [[Bulgaria]], and [[Croatia]].

Many of the best-known vineyards are in France but recent competitions place California wine, particularly the vivid reds from the San Bernardino Valley, alongside French wine in quality. Traditional winemaking is centred in the Languedoc region of Southern [[France]] and La Mancha in [[Spain]]. Kentish [[Pinot Noir]] and Welsh [[Riesling]] are also world-renowned wines.

===Wine and Christianity===
Wine has an important role in the [[Christian]] religion, reflecting the central role it played in society at the times of [[Jesus]]'s ministry on [[Earth]]. Plain water was generally not potable at that time and wine was often mixed with water, so that the alcohol in the wine killed some of the harmful microorganisms in the water. (It should be noted, however, that the same Greek word meant both "grape juice" and "wine", raising issues of translation depending on the context.<ref>See [[Conservative Bible Project]].</ref>)

Christ's first miracle, performed at the wedding feast at Cana, was to turn six amphora filled with water into unfermented grape juice. ([[Gospel of John|John]] 2:7-10.) At the [[Last Supper]], Christ commands the [[Apostles]] to eat bread and drink wine, which he calls His Body and Blood, and commands the Apostles to do this "in remembrance of me." ([[Gospel of Matthew|Matthew]] 26::26-29; [[Gospel of Mark|Mark]] 14:23-24; [[Gospel of Luke|Luke]] 22:20-23.) This is preserved in the liturgy of the Christian Church as [[Holy Communion]]. The different denominations of Christianity have various teachings and doctrines about the place and significance of the wine in the communion service, which are roughly separable into memorialism and a belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the [[Eucharist|Eucharistic]] hosts.

Many of the orders of [[Eastern Orthodox]] and [[Roman Catholic]] religious (monks and nuns) established their own wineries in Europe and, in the case of Catholic orders, in the Americas.

===Wine and Judaism===
Wine is an important part of the [[Jewish]] [[Passover Seder]], in which four cups of wine are ritually consumed.

==Types of wines==

Wines in the [[Americas]], [[Australia]], [[South Africa]] and [[Germany]] are generally sold under the name of the varieties of [[grape]] that go into the production. Some of the most popular types are:

:[[Chardonnay]] - a popular white wine produced worldwide and used especially in making [[Champagne]] and white [[Burgundy]]; Chardonnay can be paired with different kinds of food.

:[[Merlot]] - a pleasant, soft red wine with a mild flavor; it is one of the few red wines that can be drunk by itself, without food. After the bottle is opened, the flavor improves if it is allowed to breathe, that is, be exposed to the air for several minutes.

:[[Cabernet Sauvignon]] - A very heavy, astringent wine that should ideally be served with fatty red meats; the classic pairing is with lamb.

:[[Gewurztraminer]] - sometimes called GWT or GTR for short. A [[German]] varietal now produced worldwide, it has a quirky flavor and goes well with Chinese food.

:[[Pinot Noir]] - a red wine commonly grown in Northern California and Oregon; also used in Champagne and red Burgundy.

:[[Riesling]] - a white wine grape used to produce fine German wines, but also commonly used in plonk, such as Piesporter or Liebfraumilch. It should be sweet without being cloying.

:[[Sauvignon Blanc]] - a richly fragrant white wine. It is currently associated with [[New Zealand]], but it is produced around the world.

Other wines are named after the region in which they are produced.

:[[Rioja]] - a region in northern [[Spain]]
:[[Bordeaux]] - a region in southwestern [[France]]
:Burgundy - a region in eastern France

Quality of Wines

:Fine Wines - These are generally regarded as higher quality wines. But the name "Fine Wine" is derived from the Fining process of a wine rather than quality. Fining is the cleaning process which filters out impurities in the wine after fermentation. Cheaper wines were not fined and so were not regarded as "Fined Wines" later "Fine Wines"

:Beverage Wines - Everyday drinking wines

== Champagne ==
"Champagne" can either mean sparkling wines produced in the Champagne region of northeastern [[France]], although it is commonly incorrectly used to describe such wines, no matter where produced. Rules in the European Union, Canada, Australia and other countries restrict the use of the Champagne name to wines fitting the former description, however it is common to see wines in the United States sold as "champagne" even if they were produced domestically. Recently United States usage of "champagnes" has been limited to existing brands, and those must also display the area of origin so as not to be misleading. The production of sparkling wines outside France has had the effect of making excellent "champagne" type wines available at far less cost than the French varieties and further diversifying the market. Some excellent sparkling wines are produced in [[Australia]] but are not permitted to be sold under the name "champagne".

Champagne and other sparkling wine gets its "fizz" from [[carbon dioxide]] dissolved in the wine.

==Further reading==
* McGovern, Patrick E. ''Uncorking the Past: The Quest for Wine, Beer, and Other Alcoholic Beverages'' (2009)

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
[http://www.winespectator.com/ Wine Spectator]

[[Category:Alcoholic Beverages]]

User talk:SeanS

2011-09-26T23:58:07Z

LeonardS: /* PJ O'Rourke */ new section

Hi there.

[[User talk: SeanS/Archive 1|Archive 1]]

=Machismo Article=
I am sorry about that but you should have a look at this article then: [[pride]]. --[[User:ARamis|ARamis]] 22:34, 19 September 2011 (EDT)
:I know what it is and I know what the Sins are, but they aren't biblical. --[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 22:35, 19 September 2011 (EDT)
::Ok. Are you saying that I should have named the category Machismo and Christianity instead ?--[[User:ARamis|ARamis]] 22:38, 19 September 2011 (EDT)
:::No, its fine. I was removing the 7 deadly sins thing simply because those arent biblical, they are sins, but not "seven deadly"--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 22:40, 19 September 2011 (EDT)
::::I'm sorry but I'm confused. What do you mean ? Is it wrong to say that those are biblical or to say that there are deadly ?--[[User:ARamis|ARamis]] 22:44, 19 September 2011 (EDT)
:::::The sins are biblical. but calling them the seven deadly sins isnt. --[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 22:49, 19 September 2011 (EDT)
::::::Alright, thanks for the update.--[[User:ARamis|ARamis]] 23:00, 19 September 2011 (EDT)

== Earthquakes ==

Can you have a look at the Earthquake article and the discussion about it on the main talk page? There is a claim that severe earthquakes are doubling every 40 years, which just isn't true. DavidZa and I have both demonstrated that the cited source is incorrect, but nobody seems interested and all attempts to fix the error just get instantly reverted. Here is a link to the actual data so that the reference can be checked: [http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/nndc/struts/form?t=101650&s=1&d=1]. --[[User:FindlayT|FindlayT]] 14:24, 21 September 2011 (EDT)

== Wikipedia ==

Sean, we don't copy from Wikipedia. Was your edit comment what you meant to say a few minutes ago?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:05, 25 September 2011 (EDT)
:Well, i didn't have anything to put into the article, so i took the basic info about the name, who they are and birth date. better then a blank article at least.--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 13:22, 25 September 2011 (EDT)

::The vast internet has better sources than Wikipedia. I'll take a look at the entry.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:34, 25 September 2011 (EDT)
:::Probably, but i figured I could trust the information I used. Better then the unrelated vandalism it was created as.--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 13:35, 25 September 2011 (EDT)

== Accusation ==

In your edit comment reverting my last change to the election article you insinuated that I am a parodist. This is neither true nor in the spirit of a wiki. I simply reverted an edit made to an article Mr. Schlafly has expressed his contentment with. My personal views are not really in play here (they happen to differ from Mr. Schlafly's on the election), and I am most certainly not a parodist. Out of curiosity, what is your definition of a parodist? [[User:GeraldA|GeraldA]] 19:04, 26 September 2011 (EDT)
:People who come here, making a account and suddenly getting involved in debates they should have no knowledge about, people who say "long time listener, first time caller", amongst other more obvious things. You act like a parodist because your doing the second, if you aren't, I apologize, but you put suspicion on yourself by doing the edit you did.--[[User:SeanS|SeanS]] 19:06, 26 September 2011 (EDT)

== PJ O'Rourke ==

Sorry, I kinda made a mess of creating that page. Thanks for your help. --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 19:58, 26 September 2011 (EDT)

PZ Myers

2011-09-26T23:34:49Z

LeonardS: /* PZ Myers' reaction to daughter Skatje Myers' comments on bestiality */ Seems better - there's nothing in the section about Myers' reaction.

[[File:PzMyers2.jpg|thumbnail|251px|right|During a visit to the [[Creation Museum]], the [[evolution|evolutionist]] and [[atheism|atheist]] PZ Myers had noticeably greater difficulty than others climbing on and off a [[dinosaur]] model due to the fact that he was overweight and out of shape.[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQQl2TMrgbM VIDEO] See also: [[Atheism and obesity]] and [[Evolutionists who have had problems with being overweight and/or obese]]
 
 
(photo obtained from [http://www.flickr.com/photos/reuvenim/4426093513/ Flickr], see [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/deed.en license agreement]) ]]
'''Paul Zachary Myers''', better known as '''PZ Myers''', is a [[liberal]] [[atheism|atheist]] and [[evolution|evolutionist]] activist in the [[creation-evolution controversy]], contributing to [[The Panda's Thumb (blog)|The Panda's Thumb]] and [[Pharyngula (blog)|Pharyngula]] blogs. Myers is also an associate [[professor]] of [[biology]] at the University of Minnesota Morris (UMM)<ref name="citypages">[http://citypages.com/databank/26/1303/article13908.asp?page=1 ''The Mad Scientist''] City Pages, Volume 26 - Issue 1303, November 23, 2005 Cover story</ref>

PZ Myers commented, while listening to [[Michael Behe]] lecture on [[Intelligent design]], that "In science, we scream a lot."<ref name="citypages"/> Myers' emotionalism may have helped earn him the label of having an "[[eccentric]] voice" by the newspaper'' [[USA Today]]''.<ref>http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2011/06/atheist-national-geographic-pz-myers/1</ref> According to ''Evolution News'', he opposes democratically-elected school boards deciding how evolution should be taught; feeling that it should instead be done by "Scientists with years of training in the subject, and qualified science teachers who understand the fundamentals of the theory." <ref>Egnor, Michael [http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/12/pz_myers_darwinists_know_whats.html ''P.Z. Myers: Darwinists Know What’s Best for Your Children''] Evolution News December 18, 2007</ref>

== Health issues ==

See also: [[PZ Myers' health issues]] and [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]

[[Image:Cerebellum.png|right|thumb|170px|[[Medical science]] research indicates that excess weight impairs brain function.<ref>http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/41/18/25.1.full</ref><ref>http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/08/25/as-waistlines-widen-brains-shrink.html</ref> ]]

A 2009 picture of a significantly overweight PZ Myers can be found [http://www.flickr.com/photos/cfimi/5244769742/ HERE]. A 2010 picture taken in Australia shows PZ Myers drinking ale/beer and he had excess weight in his abdominal area.<ref>http://www.flickr.com/photos/reuvenim/4426093513/</ref> In 2010, PZ Myers had health problems related to his heart.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/08/thats_not_a_heart_its_a_flaili.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogs%2Fpharyngula+%28Pharyngula%29&utm_content=Google+Reader</ref> In addition, [[medical science]] research indicates that excess weight impairs brain function.<ref>http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/41/18/25.1.full</ref><ref>http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/08/25/as-waistlines-widen-brains-shrink.html</ref> Given PZ Myers' biological training and the wide dissemination of the [[Physical and mental health related problems associated with obesity|harmful health effects of being overweight]] in terms of cardiovascular health and brain function, it is unfortunate that preventative medicine was not used in greater measure in terms of his health.<ref>http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/41/18/25.1.full</ref><ref>http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/08/25/as-waistlines-widen-brains-shrink.html</ref><ref>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21121834</ref> PZ Myers inattention to diligently implementing the recommendations of [[nutritional science]], [[exercise science]] and [[medical science]] is not entirely surprising given his vehement advocacy of [[evolution|evolutionary pseudoscience]]. There have been a [[Evolutionists who have had problems with being overweight and/or obese|number of notable evolutionists who have been overweight]]. In addition, the [[Atheism and obesity|atheist community appears to have problems with obesity.]] On June 1, 2011, Myers posted a picture of himself and others on his blog and Myers appeared to no longer have issues with being overweight.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/06/the_final_tally_on_the_camp_qu.php</ref>

=== New atheism leadership's problem with being overweight ===

''For additional information please see:'' [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]

PZ Myers is a leader within the [[New Atheism ]] movement which is a [[Militant atheism|militant form of atheism]]. The New Atheism leadership has had significant issues with being overweight (please see: [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]).
[[File:Richard Dawkins pic.jpg|alt=Richard Dawkins|thumbnail|260px|right|As of May 2011, [[Richard Dawkins]] and [[Sam Harris]] have not publicly commented on the significant problems the [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight|New Atheism leadership]] has experienced in terms of overweight members.]]
The term [[New Atheism]] which first appeared in the November 2006 edition of ''Wired'' magazine, is frequently applied to a series of six best-selling books by five authors that appeared in the period between 2004–2008. These authors include [[Sam Harris]], [[Daniel Dennett]], [[Richard Dawkins]], Victor J. Stenger and [[Christopher Hitchens]].<ref>http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/battle.html</ref> 3 out of 5 of these [[atheism|atheist]] men have had issues with being overweight as can be seen [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3UXl0oMYPLs/SXgxH_-MgFI/AAAAAAAAAF4/EU-wzxEjOmc/s1600-h/atheist-reason.jpg HERE] and [http://www.flickr.com/photos/7230309@N05/3708479160/ HERE] and [http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/Quantum-Mechanics-Could-Link-Humans-with-the-Universe-2.jpg/ HERE] Also, as noted above PZ Myers has had problems with being overweight. In the late 1990s, Dennet had [[coronary artery bypass surgery]] (coronary artery bypass surgery reroutes blood around clogged [[artery|arteries]] to enhance [[blood]] flow and [[oxygen]] to the [[heart]]).<ref>http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dennett06/dennett06_index.html</ref><ref>http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4484</ref> As of May 2011, Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris have not publicly commented on the significant problems the New Atheism leadership has experienced in terms of overweight members.

[[Hippocrates]] was an early advocate of the health benefits of [[exercise]] and [[nutrition]].<ref>http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/pe/exs190web/exs190history.htm</ref> On the other hand, PZ Myers and a significant amount of other [[New Atheism|New Atheism]] leaders, seem to have demonstrated a lack of a full appreciation of the importance of [[nutritional science]], [[exercise science]] and the latest findings of [[medical science]] (see: [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]}. Also, unlike PZ Myers, Hippocrates was [[pro-life]].<ref>http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/11/pz_myers_on_abortion040971.html</ref>

For more information please see: [[Theories of New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]

=== Christian apologist Vox Day on the issue of atheism and obesity ===

In 2011, [[Christian apologetics|Christian apologist]] [[Vox Day]] had an individual complain about the notion that the atheist community has a problem with obesity (Please see: [[Atheism and obesity]]). As a result, on May 19, 2011, Vox Day released a blog post entitled ''Mailvox: now, who said atheists are fat?'' where 80% of the people taking a picture with PZ Myers were overweight and PZ Myers was overweight in the picture as well as can be seen [http://voxday.blogspot.com/2011/05/mailvox-now-who-said-atheists-are-fat.html HERE]. The picture was originally posted on PZ Myer's blog [[Pharyngula (blog)|Pharyngula]] by Myers on May 16, 2011 and an online argument quickly ensued concerning the appearance of the photograph's participants.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/at_least_you_can_see_a_hint_of.php</ref>

== PZ Myers' daughter Skatje Myers' comments on bestiality ==

''See also:'' [[Atheism and bestiality]] and [[Skeptic Skatje Myers' comments on bestiality]]

Skeptic Skatje Myers, the daughter of [[evolution|evolutionist]] and atheist PZ Myers describes herself as "atheist, [[agnosticism|agnostic]], rationalist, complicated vegetarian (sans dairy and eggs mostly, avec dumpster diving, by-products, and ethical sources), [[Existentialism|existential]] and moral [[nihilism|nihilist]], social democrat”.<ref>[http://www.civitatedei.com/2011/07/skatje-myers-on-the-separation-of-church-and-state/ Skatje Myers on The Separation of Church and State]</ref>

On January 2, 2008 Christian apologist [[Vox Day]] wrote in an article entitled ''Atheist Dad of the Year'':
{{cquote|If I were ever to have attacked [[atheism]] by arguing that on the rare occasions when atheists manage to successfully reproduce, their children would likely grow up possessing beliefs that are utterly immoral by Western moral norms and abhorrent to the average individual, many people would howl that I was unfairly engaging in baseless conjecture, regardless of the logic presented.

So, it's more than a little amusing to see PZ Myers angrily defending his daughter's public argument against anti-bestiality laws. Now, it's certainly the girl's right to advocate on behalf of whatever legal cause she feels is important to her, but this particular choice of subject really doesn't provide the most convincing evidence against the oft-repeated charge that atheists are hopelessly immoral. And if there's nothing rationally objectionable about the practice, then from whence comes this defensive paternal outrage?

The ironic truth is that Miss Myers is absolutely correct; once the basic concept of [[Natural Law]] is abandoned, there is no rational basis for banning anything from necrophilia to cannibalism other than a vague sense of "ickiness" inherited from preceding generations possessed of a more conventional morality.<ref>[http://voxday.blogspot.com/2008/01/atheist-dad-of-year.html Atheist Dad of the Year]</ref>}}

Skatje Myers, the daughter of atheist PZ Myers, wrote:
{{cquote|Sexual relationships between humans and animals come as such a shock to people, but it doesn’t to me. There can be very deep, meaningful relationships between humans and their pets...

That said, I remind you that my position isn’t based on my own personal wants. I just don’t see any reason to ban it other than the same reason things like [[homosexuality]] and sodomy were banned: it’s icky. I think it’s bad practice to put social taboos into legislature when no actual logical argument can be made against it.<ref>[http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/01/just_when_you_think_slimy_sal.php Skatje Myers, Daughter of atheist PZ Myers - in blog comments section of PZ Myers' blog post]</ref><ref>[http://sd-10807.dedibox.fr/show_items-feed=b8f260ba6c2ca74f75f0ec7dd4fee078?page=2 RSS feed - Lacrimae Rerum,blog of Skatje Myers, blog article - Zoophilia Oct 2, 2007]</ref>}}

See also: [[Atheism and bestiality]] and [[Evolutionary belief and bestiality]]

=== Skatje Myers on morality ===

On August 18, 2011, Skatje Myers wrote:
{{cquote|I’m a moral nihilist. I have no reason to believe that morality is anything other than preferences.

I have those preferences, of course — essentially it’s just intuitional leanings. Any need or desire to follow those leanings is purely for my own enjoyment. I decide what is right and wrong based on what I feel is right and wrong, and I follow them only because of a self-created obligation to myself. I demand that others follow the same “rules” I have for myself, because I want them to. It makes the world the way I want it to be.

The way I see it, every other system of morality is based on unjustifiable claims too, so why follow someone else’s invented ideas of right and wrong?<ref>[http://lacrimae-rerum.org/?p=169 Morality by Skaje Myers]</ref>}}

== PZ Myers and militant atheism ==

PZ Myers is a [[militant atheism|militant atheist]] who has openly advocated the elimination of religion, likening it to illiteracy.<ref>http://www.atheistrev.com/2008/03/pz-myers-on-eliminating-religion.html</ref>
His language is extremely militant at times, and laced with expletives. In a diatribe in which he described those who believe in the Bible as "lunatics" and "bigots," Myers said:
{{cquote|I say, screw the polite words and careful rhetoric. It's time for scientists to break out the steel-toed boots and brass knuckles, and get out there and hammer on the lunatics and idiots.<ref>http://web.archive.org/web/20070420142719/http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/perspective/</ref>}}

PZ Myers frequently rants against religion, religious people, and religious institutions (e.g. churches) on his blog. Myers has called evangelical Christianity "a blight upon the earth,"<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/03/left_or_right_religion_and_pol.php/</ref> religious people "ignorant, deluded, wicked, foolish, or oppressed victims of obsolete mythologies,"<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/07/im_surrounded.php</ref> and considers every church to be a "parasitic institution that contributes nothing to the tax base and encourages further ignorance in the population."<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/07/how_do_you_save_small_town_cha.php</ref> Myers has yet to offer scholarly work on the subject of atheism<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-emotively-vociferous-intellectually-mute</ref> (for example, PZ Myers has yet to offer scholarly works on the subjects of [[atheism and mass murder]] and [[atheism and uncharitableness]]). In addition, given Myers' diatribes that religious people are allegedly ignorant and deluded, it is quite ironic that Myers has yet to offer any compelling atheist apologetic material rebutting the studies that indicate the [[Irreligion and superstition|irreligious are generally more superstitious than evangelical Christians]].

=== Militant atheism and intellectual slothfulness of PZ Myers===

''See also:'' [[Irreligion and superstition]] and [[Militant atheism and intellectual slothfulness of PZ Myers]]

The [[Christian apologetics|Christian apologetic]] website [[True Free Thinker]] declares concerning the intellectual [[Sloth (sin)|slothfulness]] of PZ Myers:
{{cquote|That PZ Myers is emotively vociferous is evident to anyone who reads, well, virtually anything that he has ever written on any subject at all.

It is likewise evident that he is intellectually mute. How so? Where are his scholarly works on the truth of atheism? He has produced none.

He merely presupposes God’s non-existence without evidence, see:

[http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/its-name-doom-%E2%80%94-pz-myers%E2%80%99-priori-presuppositional-presumption-atheism ITS NAME IS DOOM — PZ Myers’ A Priori Presuppositional Presumption of Atheism]

[http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-refreshingly-honest-doom-gloom-and-positive-affirmation-god%E2%80%99s-non-existence-boot PZ Myers is Refreshingly Honest: Doom, Gloom and a Positive Affirmation of God’s Non-Existence to Boot!]

[http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-%E2%80%93-contra-mitch-daniels-and-pro-positive-affirmation-god%E2%80%99s-non-existence-part-1-2 PZ Myers – Contra Mitch Daniels and Pro Positive Affirmation of God’s Non-Existence, part 1 of 2]

[http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-%E2%80%93-contra-mitch-daniels-and-pro-positive-affirmation-god%E2%80%99s-non-existence-part-1-2 PZ Myers’ Dogmatheism Catechism]

Etc., etc., etc.....

Where then are his proofs of atheism and disproof of theism?
None exist but merely emotive besmirchments of straw-men and straw-gods.

His lack of scholarship and intellectual rigor in these areas, as well as the truth of my statements above, may be demonstrated in the following examples (which are a mere few of many).

PZ Myers dismisses [[Vox Day]]’s book ''The Irrational Atheist: Dissecting the Unholy Trinity of Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens'' while admitting to only having read a few chapters.
[[Image:Stephen Meyer.jpg|thumb|150px|right|Dr. [[Stephen Meyer]] published an article favoring [[intelligent design]] in a peer reviewed science journal which had traditionally only published material advocating the [[evolution|evolutionary]] position.<ref>http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=1489</ref>]]
Yet, he refuses to debate Vox Day on the existence of God, or evolution for that matter (Myers being a professor of biology) based on dismissing a book he barely read (yes, it is merely a lame excuse which he peppered with a barrage of emotive ad hominems) — see [http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/speaking-assiduous-absconders%E2%80%A6yet-again-vox-day-challenges-pz-myers-debate Speaking of Assiduous Absconders…Yet Again, Vox Day Challenges PZ Myers to Debate].

PZ Myers also dismissed [[Stephen Meyer]]’s book ''Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for [[Intelligent Design]]'' referring to it as a “stinker,” “drivel” and “[[Discovery Institute]] Bulldung” whilst stating that, “Stephen Meyer lies.” Yet, he stated all of this, and more, whilst stating, “I suppose I’ll have to read that 600 page pile of slop sometime…”....This fact alone shows that he needs to read it, as Intelligent Design proponents are constantly begging their opponents to stop mischaracterizing Intelligent Design theory as holding to something to the likes of it’s so complex, it must have been . . . designed!

PZ Myers also refused to debate anyone from [[Creation Ministries International]] (CMI) even while he was in Australia for the preaching-to-the-choir-back-patting Global Atheist Convention - The Rise of Atheism – the “biggest ever atheist event in Australia’s history”...

Clearly, PZ Myers is popular because he scratches where many atheists itch: atheism is an [[Causes of atheism|emotional rejection of God]] very, very thinly veneered in a facade of scientific and intellectual respectability. Thus, PZ Myers plays upon and stokes the fires of emotion yet, he has not, is not and who knows if he ever will engage the intellect.<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-emotively-vociferous-intellectually-mute</ref>}}

=== Refusal to debate at atheist global conference and brief radio debate ===

''See also:'' [[Richard Dawkins' public refusal to debate creationists]]

In 2010, the worldwide atheist community was challenged to a debate by [[Creation Ministries International]] as prominent atheists were speaking at a 2010 global atheist convention in [[Australia]].<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/richard-dawkins-cowardly-clown</ref> [[Richard Dawkins]], PZ Myers and other prominent atheists refused to debate Creation Ministries International.<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/richard-dawkins-cowardly-clown</ref> Generally speaking, [[Creation scientists tend to win the creation vs. evolution debates|creation scientists tend to win the creation vs. evolution debates]].

The website [[True Free Thinker]] declared concerning the refusal of [[Richard Dawkins]], PZ Myers and other prominent atheists to debate the [[creation science|creation scientists]] and other staff at [[Creation Ministries International]]:
{{cquote|In keeping with his constant attention getting shenanigans and his equally constant absconding from debating apt challengers via a barrage of illogical and excuses, the moniker of cowardly clown fits Richard Dawkins more than ever (see [http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/send-clowns-%E2%80%93-richard-dawkins-obliges Send in the Clowns – Richard Dawkins Obliges]).
[[Image:Jonathansafarti.jpg|thumbnail|right|300px|Dr. [[Jonathan Sarfati]] ]]
Enter Jonathan Sarfati (PhD in chemistry),senior scientist at Creation Ministries International, who recently published the book “The Greatest Hoax on Earth? Refuting Dawkins on Evolution.” Interestingly, Jonathan Sarfati sought to publish the book by the time that the 2010 Global Atheist Convention—billed as “The Rise of Atheism”—of March 12-14 at the Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Center in Australia.

The most intelligent, well informed and vociferous atheists in the world, including [http://www.truefreethinker.com/richard-dawkins Richard Dawkins], [http://www.truefreethinker.com/dan-barker Dan Barker], [http://www.truefreethinker.com/pz-myers PZ Myers], et al, were challenged to debate while their worldwide choir was gathered in one place and yet, one by one they each found excuses to cower from debate even whilst proclaiming to their adherents the intellectual superiority of [[atheism]].<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/richard-dawkins-cowardly-clown</ref>}}

In January 2008, Myers participated in a brief radio debate with [[Discovery Institute]] fellow Geoffrey Simmons on [[Minneapolis]]/[[St. Paul]] radio station KKMS.<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk5Y3VoBeVQ</ref>

== PZ Myers refusal to debate Vox Day ==

''See also:'' [[Atheism and cowardice]] and [[Atheism and Debate|Atheism and debate]]

On September 4, 2011, [[Christian apologetics|Christian apologist]] [[Vox Day]] wrote concerning PZ Myers:
{{cquote|I have heard from numerous atheists who find his intellectual cowardice to be more than a little troubling given his usual tendency to create conflict rather than to avoid it. And he has handed an out to every single individual he ever hopes to challenge in the future. Why should they debate a nobody like him, a clown who isn't even a bigshot in his own field?

As for the PZ Myers Memorial Debate, we are still in search of an atheist to champion the argument that the logic and evidence for the nonexistence of gods is stronger than the logic and evidence for the existence of gods. It is certainly informative to see how many atheists do not appear to believe they are able to effectively make this case; in light of this, many Christians may find this to be a useful tactical approach when confronted by aggressive atheists in the future. This tends to confirm my previous observations that while atheists like to challenge the beliefs of others, they are very ill-prepared, and in many cases downright unwilling, to defend their own. So, if you want to shut them up, simply go on the attack. They'll run away with alacrity.<ref>[http://voxday.blogspot.com/2011/09/he-still-runs-like-girl.html Running, running by Vox Day]</ref>}}

On August 28, 2011, Vox Day declared concerning Myers:
{{cquote|What you clearly do not understand is that, [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/we_arent_angry_were_effective.php by his own admission], PZ relies heavily upon emotional arguments rather than logical ones when he cannot simply appeal to an established scientific consensus. "I'll also cop to the obvious fact that, knowing that reason will not get through their skills, I'm happy to use emotional arguments as well. Passion is persuasive." His tendency to rely upon emotional rhetoric and passion rather than reason is precisely why he is afraid to debate people who rely primarily upon logic, because his ability to present reason-based arguments is relatively low. His ability to utilize reason is simply not equal to the skill of others who make use of it more effectively. PZ is without question an effective preacher to the godless choir of science fetishists, but he is remarkably unskilled at presenting convincing arguments, let alone conclusive ones, to those who do not already agree with him. Unlike you, he knows he is not an effective evangelist.<ref>[http://voxday.blogspot.com/2011/08/can-one-dodge-dodger.html Can one dodge a dodger?]</ref>}}

== The claim that PZ Myers' blog audience tends to be quarrelsome and socially challenged men ==

''See also:'' [[Elevatorgate]] and [[Atheism and the internet]]

Survey data and website tracking data of prominent atheist websites indicate that in the [[Western World]], [[Atheism appears to be significantly less appealing to women|atheism appears to be significantly less appealing to women]].

In 2007, [[Vox Day]] wrote:
[[File:Vox Day.jpg|thumbnail|right|210px|[[Vox Day]] ]]
{{cquote|It's not just a figment of my imagination, it seems atheists truly are socially autistic by their own report. Asperger's Syndrome is a disorder described as "autistic psychopathy" by its discoverer, Dr. Hans Asperger. Those with the disorder tend to be intelligent, socially awkward and difficult to converse with. They are also likely to be male.

Based on ''[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'' magazine's observation that atheists tend to be quarrelsome, socially challenged men, to say nothing of the unpleasant personalities of leading public atheists such as [[Richard Dawkins]], [[Christopher Hitchens]] and Michel Onfray, one could reasonably hypothesize that there is likely to be a strong correlation between Asperger's and atheism. It's by no means a scientific test, but it is interesting to note the coincidence that 59 of the virulent atheists over at Dr. [[Pharyngula (blog)|PZ Myers place]] report an average score on the Asperger's Quotient test of 27.8. And this does not include the two individuals who actually have Asperger's but did not report any test results.

The test notes that "Scores over 32 are generally taken to indicate Asperger's Syndrome or high-functioning autism". The average male score is 18, the average female score is 15. By way of comparison, I scored 14...

Obviously, more comprehensive and scientific tests would be advised before any definite conclusion can be reached...<ref>http://voxday.blogspot.com/2007/08/socially-autistic-atheist.html</ref>}}

In 2010, the [[Christian apologetics]] website [[True Free Thinker]] wrote:
{{cquote|Scienceblogger [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2008/04/the_cost_of_not_framing.php Chad Orzel described] the commentators on PZ Myers ' Scienceblogs.com site [[Pharyngula (blog)|Pharyngula]], and other Scienceblogs.com commentators, as "screechy monkeys."<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-and-pavlovs-monkeys</ref>}}

Of course, there is no necessity to assert that atheists are more likely to have Asperger's Syndrome. The historical militancy of the atheist/[[evolution|evolutionist]] community and the ideas their ideologies have often engendered provides more than enough explanatory power to explain the origin of the quarrelsomeness and other social deficiencies of many in the atheists/evolutionist population (see: [[militant atheism]] and [[Social effects of the theory of evolution|social effects of the theory of evolution]] ). In fact, it is arguably the best explanation for the quarrelsomeness and other social deficiencies of many in the atheist/evolutionist community. In addition, ultimately the decision to reject or be reconciled with [[God]] is a matter relating to the [[grace]] of God and [[free will]] and nobody is forced into [[atheism]] due to a physical condition.

=== PZ Myers' commentary concerning atheist meetings ===

PZ Myers recently commented that atheist meetings tend to be significantly more attended by males.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/the_woman_problem.php</ref> Mr. Myers commentary concerning atheist meetings is not surprising given that survey data and website tracking data of prominent atheist websites indicate that in the Western World, [[Atheism appears to be significantly less appealing to women|atheism appears to be significantly less appealing to women]].

== PZ Myers' blog posts often lack substance ==

''See also:'' [[Atheism and the internet]] and [[Irreligion and superstition]] and [[PZ Myers' blog post and quality problems]]

In 2010, the [[Christian apologetics|Christian apologetic]] website [[True Free Thinker]] declared:
{{cquote|Just a few years ago PZ Myers fellow Sciencebloggers were complaining about his general lack of substance and about his cult of personality amen chorus of adherents whom were dubbed the [http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-and-pavlovs-monkeys screechy monkeys]. PZ Myers should be thankful that Scienceblogs is not about science blogs and does not demand science on its Scienceblogs or else 99.9% of all posts on [http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-pseudoscienceblogscom his pseudo-science blog] would have to be deleted or, would have never been posted in the first place.

Now it is [http://scienceblogs.com/commonknowledge/2010/07/of_pepsi_and_scienceblogs.php PZ Myers who is complaining] about his fellow Sciencebloggers as he states that Scienceblogs has been facing a steady erosion of talent. The key question is What sort of talent? Talented at doing what?

If he references the talent to elucidate matters scientific then he is quite lacking himself.

If he refers to peppering virtually every post with ad hominems, mythunderstandings, promulgating of prejudice and positively affirming Gods non-existence without evidence then he is the pseudo-science blogger par excellence.<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-contra-scienceblogs</ref>}}

== ''Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed'' ==
[[File:PZ Myers.jpg|thumbnail|220px|right|PZ Myers,
 
 
(photo obtained from [http://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinzac/4328612187/ Flickr], see [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/deed.en license agreement]) ]]
''See also:'' [[Irreligion and superstition]]

Myers appeared in the film ''[[Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed]]''. In the film, Myers compared religion to knitting and said it should be nothing more than "something fun that people get together and do on the weekend and really doesn't affect their life as much as it has been so far."<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHiZjOH1NmQ</ref> Up to and after the release of the film, PZ Myers viciously attacked the film and its makers many times and engaged in bizarre behavior. Two of the most notable incidents involved his failed attempt to gate-crash a showing of the film at the Mall of America<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/science/21expelledw.html</ref> and his crashing and disruption (including plugging himself) of a conference call held by ''Expelled'''s producers after calling in early (likely to eavesdrop) and overhearing and then dishonestly using the phone code that allowed two-way communication.<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYAblaZmogA</ref><ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/i_always_aim_to_misbehave.php</ref> Most bizarrely, in the latter incident, Myers interruption of the producers' call began with his referring to himself in the third person, probably in an attempt to conceal both his identity and the fact that he used a phone code he was not authorized to use.

== Creation Museum buffoonery ==

''See also:'' [[Essay: PZ Myers embarrasses himself at the Creation Museum|PZ Myers embarrasses himself at the Creation Museum]] - [[satire]]

In August 2009, Myers led a group of over 300 atheist and agnostic students on a tour of the [[Creation Museum]].<ref>[http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=8280168 "Creation Museum: Is This How World Began?" (ABC News)]</ref> During the visit, Myers had noticeably greater difficulty than others climbing on and off a dinosaur model due to the fact that he was overweight and out of shape.[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQQl2TMrgbM VIDEO] In addition, the purpose of the dinosaur model is clearly for children to sit on for photographs.<ref>http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/aroundtheworld/2009/08/16/children-and-the-creation-museum/</ref><ref>[http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/53237252.html "A firebrand visits Creation Museum" (Minneapolis Star-Tribune)]</ref> Myers donned a borrowed cowboy hat and was egged on by the cheers and laughter of the students.<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQQl2TMrgbM</ref>

== PZ Myers on abortion ==
[[Image:115523-004-FA619CA3.jpg|thumb|right|250px| The perverse and cruel [[atheism|atheist]] [[Marquis de Sade]] was an early advocate of [[abortion]] in the [[Western World]].<ref>http://jme.bmj.com/content/6/1/7.abstract</ref>]]
See also: [[PZ Myers and abortion]] and [[Atheism and mass murder]] and [[Atheism and morality]]

PZ Myers is not only "pro-choice", but he said he is "even willing to say" that he is pro-[[abortion]].<ref>http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/11/pz_myers_on_abortion040971.html</ref>

The website Evolution News and Views wrote:
{{cquote|Myers again, on abortion:

'what's at stake is a mere embryo, so it's no big loss if it's flushed and incinerated, and I don't have any illusions about whether this is deciding the fate of a human life -- it's not. There's no person...'

Myers' ugly assertion -- 'it's no big loss if it's flushed and incinerated...[t]here's no person -- demonstrates the [[New Atheism|New Atheist]] moral vacuum. [[Atheism and morality|New Atheists insist that there is no objective moral law]]; morality is nothing more than an evolved adaptation, or what each of us decides, ad nauseam. Yet if there is no objective moral law that transcends the individual will to power, then power, not justice nor mercy nor even love for one's own child, governs human conduct. Atheist morality boils down to this: '... because we can'. That has been the moral code of atheism in power for a century.<ref>http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/11/pz_myers_on_abortion040971.html</ref>}}

In 2011, Myers wrote that when he sees dead baby pictures: "I look at them unflinchingly and see meat."<ref>http://www.examiner.com/christian-apologetics-in-albuquerque/pz-myers-best-reason-for-rejecting-atheism-murdered-babies-are-just-meat</ref>

[[Christian apologetics|Christian apologist]] Mariano Grinbank wrote in response to PZ Myers remarks concerning abortion:
{{cquote|What a tragic figure, what a deprivation of all that is human and humane, what a sad, sick and depraved [[soul]]: what a by product of atheism.

Beautiful, healthy, innocent and defenseless human babies who were brutally murdered in unimaginably brutal and inhuman, inhumane, and subhuman manners are to be likened to rats, mice, dogs, and misc amputated body parts. In his reductionist eyes it is all merely temporarily animated meat.<ref>http://www.examiner.com/christian-apologetics-in-albuquerque/pz-myers-best-reason-for-rejecting-atheism-murdered-babies-are-just-meat</ref>}}

PZ Myers's views are not surprising given the [[History of Atheism|history of atheism]] in relation to the abortion issue. The ''Journal of Medical Ethics'' article declared concerning the [[atheism|atheist]] and [[sadism|sadist]] [[Marquis de Sade]]:
{{cquote|In 1795 the Marquis de Sade published his La Philosophic dans le boudoir, in which he proposed the use of induced abortion for social reasons and as a means of [[population control]]. It is from this time that medical and social acceptance of abortion can be dated, although previously the subject had not been discussed in public in modern times. It is suggested that it was largely due to de Sade's writing that induced abortion received the impetus which resulted in its subsequent spread in western society.<ref>http://jme.bmj.com/content/6/1/7.abstract</ref>}}

[[Population control]] is based on [[pseudoscience]] and ill founded [[economics|economic]] assumptions.<ref>http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/11/pz_myers_on_abortion040971.html</ref>

== Communion host ==
On July 8, 2008, PZ Myers posted an entry attacking Roman Catholic beliefs regards Communion. He was reacting to a news story, in which a student at the University of Central Florida described a physical confrontation over his failure to consume a communion wafer.<ref>'Body Of Christ' Snatched From Church, Held Hostage By UCF Student, July 5, 2008[http://www.wftv.com/news/16798008/detail.html]</ref><ref>'Body Of Christ" Returned To Church After Student Receives Email Threats, July 7, 2008[http://www.wftv.com/news/16806050/detail.html]</ref> After ridiculing some people as "petty, hateful, and stupid," and asserting that "nothing makes them stupider than religion," Myers requested that his readers steal consecrated Communion wafers for him, so that he could desecrate them on camera. This rant predictably resulted in a strongly negative response from Catholics and those who support freedom of religious expression <ref>http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1459</ref>; Myers has since complained about the "hate mail" and "death threats" he has received, comparing the defense of Communion to a "witch hunt." To date, the University of Minnesota has not taken official action against Myers for his inflammatory remarks, other than to remove the link to his blog from his faculty page.<ref>http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1460</ref> PZ Myers followed through with his threat, desecrating a eucharist and tearing out pages of a copy of the [[Koran]] and a copy of [[Richard Dawkins]]' ''The God Delusion''.<ref>http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/07/26/update-on-professor-myers-desecration-of-eucharist/</ref>

Meanwhile, Myers posted two vitriolic emails he had received and included the email addresses where they supposedly had come from. Predictably, his readers responded with their own threatening and harassing emails even though at the time it was not clear whether or not the email addresses had been spoofed One was allegedly from someone at 1-800-Flowers, though the husband of the user of the address subsequently owned up to sending the e-mail.<ref>http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/071608-woman-fired-over-death-threat.html</ref> The account owner was fired by the company. Myers commented on the firing, saying, "She apparently did something stupid, which I don't have sympathy for. I would just rather not see people getting fired over an e-mail message."<ref>http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/071608-woman-fired-over-death-threat.html?page=2)</ref> Myers attempted to save face, claiming that the unsurprising behavior by his readers was not the intent behind his posting of the email addresses, and called for his readers to stop "dunning these people with email, threatening them back, signing them up for spam, or otherwise being a jerk." These pleas fell on deaf ears, while PZ Myers continued to avoid doing the obvious thing in simply removing the email addresses from his blog.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/stop_it_now_please.php</ref><ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/mail_dump.php</ref>

==Myers and Conservapedia==
True to liberal values, Myers has banned all direct references and links to Conservapedia on his blog due to what he claims was "serious problems with spamming" involving Conservapedia members.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/conservapdia_has_a_new_project.php</ref> Of course, no spamming (repeatedly posting the same message) actually occurred, making Myers' accusation a lie. Rather, his banning is an attempt to silence legitimate criticism which he is simply incapable of addressing.
== See also ==

*[[Resources for leaving atheism and becoming a Christian]]
*[[Irreligion and superstition]]
*[[Rebecca Watson]]

Comedy and satire:

* [[Essay: Professor PZ Myers fails his applied biology course|Professor PZ Myers fails his applied biology course]] - [[satire]]
*[[Essay: PZ Myers embarrasses himself at the Creation Museum|PZ Myers embarrasses himself at the Creation Museum]] - satire
*[[Essay: PZ Myers finally looks more like Ken Ham|PZ Myers finally looks more like Ken Ham!]] - satire
*[[Essay: A reply to atheist and evolutionist PZ Myers|A reply to atheist and evolutionist PZ Myers]] - satire
*[[Essay: PZ Myers vs. C.S. Lewis|PZ Myers vs. C.S. Lewis]] - satire
*[[Essay: Ponies vs. atheism - Ponies win|Ponies vs. PZ Myers - Ponies win!]] - satire
*[[Essay: Western atheists sumo wrestling - survival of the fattest?| Western atheists sumo wrestling - survival of the fattest?]] - satire
*[[Essay: PZ Myers evolved into a pig|PZ Myers evolved into a pig]] - satire
*[[Essay: PZ Myers' greatest fear|PZ Myers' greatest fear]] - satire
*[[Evolutionists who have had problems with being overweight and/or obese]]
*[[Essay: The atheist and evolutionist helpline|Atheist and evolutionist helpline]] - [[satire]]
*[[Comedy and satires concerning atheism and evolution]] ('''large collection''' of comedy/satire concerning [[atheism]] and [[evolution]])
*[[Essay: Atheists say the darnedest things!|Atheists say the darnedest things!]] - satire
*[[Essay: Atheists' meetings|Atheists' meetings]] - satire

==External Links==
*[http://www.truefreethinker.com/pz-myers PZ Myers - Christian rebuttals] by [[True Free Thinker]]
*[http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/07/pz_myers_replies_with_incendia048251.html PZ Myers Replies with Incendiary Rhetoric Instead of Scientific Arguments]
*[http://www.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula Pharyngula] <big>'''Non-family-friendly content warning.'''</big>
{{nb_Atheism}}

==References ==
{{reflist}}
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[[Category:PZ Myers]]
[[Category:Atheism]]
[[Category: New Atheism]]
[[Category:Evolution]]
[[Category:Biologists]]
[[Category:Atheists]]
[[Category:Evolutionists]]

PZ Myers

2011-09-26T23:33:25Z

LeonardS: Good point but not relevant in context.

[[File:PzMyers2.jpg|thumbnail|251px|right|During a visit to the [[Creation Museum]], the [[evolution|evolutionist]] and [[atheism|atheist]] PZ Myers had noticeably greater difficulty than others climbing on and off a [[dinosaur]] model due to the fact that he was overweight and out of shape.[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQQl2TMrgbM VIDEO] See also: [[Atheism and obesity]] and [[Evolutionists who have had problems with being overweight and/or obese]]
 
 
(photo obtained from [http://www.flickr.com/photos/reuvenim/4426093513/ Flickr], see [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/deed.en license agreement]) ]]
'''Paul Zachary Myers''', better known as '''PZ Myers''', is a [[liberal]] [[atheism|atheist]] and [[evolution|evolutionist]] activist in the [[creation-evolution controversy]], contributing to [[The Panda's Thumb (blog)|The Panda's Thumb]] and [[Pharyngula (blog)|Pharyngula]] blogs. Myers is also an associate [[professor]] of [[biology]] at the University of Minnesota Morris (UMM)<ref name="citypages">[http://citypages.com/databank/26/1303/article13908.asp?page=1 ''The Mad Scientist''] City Pages, Volume 26 - Issue 1303, November 23, 2005 Cover story</ref>

PZ Myers commented, while listening to [[Michael Behe]] lecture on [[Intelligent design]], that "In science, we scream a lot."<ref name="citypages"/> Myers' emotionalism may have helped earn him the label of having an "[[eccentric]] voice" by the newspaper'' [[USA Today]]''.<ref>http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2011/06/atheist-national-geographic-pz-myers/1</ref> According to ''Evolution News'', he opposes democratically-elected school boards deciding how evolution should be taught; feeling that it should instead be done by "Scientists with years of training in the subject, and qualified science teachers who understand the fundamentals of the theory." <ref>Egnor, Michael [http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/12/pz_myers_darwinists_know_whats.html ''P.Z. Myers: Darwinists Know What’s Best for Your Children''] Evolution News December 18, 2007</ref>

== Health issues ==

See also: [[PZ Myers' health issues]] and [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]

[[Image:Cerebellum.png|right|thumb|170px|[[Medical science]] research indicates that excess weight impairs brain function.<ref>http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/41/18/25.1.full</ref><ref>http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/08/25/as-waistlines-widen-brains-shrink.html</ref> ]]

A 2009 picture of a significantly overweight PZ Myers can be found [http://www.flickr.com/photos/cfimi/5244769742/ HERE]. A 2010 picture taken in Australia shows PZ Myers drinking ale/beer and he had excess weight in his abdominal area.<ref>http://www.flickr.com/photos/reuvenim/4426093513/</ref> In 2010, PZ Myers had health problems related to his heart.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/08/thats_not_a_heart_its_a_flaili.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogs%2Fpharyngula+%28Pharyngula%29&utm_content=Google+Reader</ref> In addition, [[medical science]] research indicates that excess weight impairs brain function.<ref>http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/41/18/25.1.full</ref><ref>http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/08/25/as-waistlines-widen-brains-shrink.html</ref> Given PZ Myers' biological training and the wide dissemination of the [[Physical and mental health related problems associated with obesity|harmful health effects of being overweight]] in terms of cardiovascular health and brain function, it is unfortunate that preventative medicine was not used in greater measure in terms of his health.<ref>http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/41/18/25.1.full</ref><ref>http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/08/25/as-waistlines-widen-brains-shrink.html</ref><ref>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21121834</ref> PZ Myers inattention to diligently implementing the recommendations of [[nutritional science]], [[exercise science]] and [[medical science]] is not entirely surprising given his vehement advocacy of [[evolution|evolutionary pseudoscience]]. There have been a [[Evolutionists who have had problems with being overweight and/or obese|number of notable evolutionists who have been overweight]]. In addition, the [[Atheism and obesity|atheist community appears to have problems with obesity.]] On June 1, 2011, Myers posted a picture of himself and others on his blog and Myers appeared to no longer have issues with being overweight.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/06/the_final_tally_on_the_camp_qu.php</ref>

=== New atheism leadership's problem with being overweight ===

''For additional information please see:'' [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]

PZ Myers is a leader within the [[New Atheism ]] movement which is a [[Militant atheism|militant form of atheism]]. The New Atheism leadership has had significant issues with being overweight (please see: [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]).
[[File:Richard Dawkins pic.jpg|alt=Richard Dawkins|thumbnail|260px|right|As of May 2011, [[Richard Dawkins]] and [[Sam Harris]] have not publicly commented on the significant problems the [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight|New Atheism leadership]] has experienced in terms of overweight members.]]
The term [[New Atheism]] which first appeared in the November 2006 edition of ''Wired'' magazine, is frequently applied to a series of six best-selling books by five authors that appeared in the period between 2004–2008. These authors include [[Sam Harris]], [[Daniel Dennett]], [[Richard Dawkins]], Victor J. Stenger and [[Christopher Hitchens]].<ref>http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/battle.html</ref> 3 out of 5 of these [[atheism|atheist]] men have had issues with being overweight as can be seen [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3UXl0oMYPLs/SXgxH_-MgFI/AAAAAAAAAF4/EU-wzxEjOmc/s1600-h/atheist-reason.jpg HERE] and [http://www.flickr.com/photos/7230309@N05/3708479160/ HERE] and [http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/Quantum-Mechanics-Could-Link-Humans-with-the-Universe-2.jpg/ HERE] Also, as noted above PZ Myers has had problems with being overweight. In the late 1990s, Dennet had [[coronary artery bypass surgery]] (coronary artery bypass surgery reroutes blood around clogged [[artery|arteries]] to enhance [[blood]] flow and [[oxygen]] to the [[heart]]).<ref>http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dennett06/dennett06_index.html</ref><ref>http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4484</ref> As of May 2011, Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris have not publicly commented on the significant problems the New Atheism leadership has experienced in terms of overweight members.

[[Hippocrates]] was an early advocate of the health benefits of [[exercise]] and [[nutrition]].<ref>http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/pe/exs190web/exs190history.htm</ref> On the other hand, PZ Myers and a significant amount of other [[New Atheism|New Atheism]] leaders, seem to have demonstrated a lack of a full appreciation of the importance of [[nutritional science]], [[exercise science]] and the latest findings of [[medical science]] (see: [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]}. Also, unlike PZ Myers, Hippocrates was [[pro-life]].<ref>http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/11/pz_myers_on_abortion040971.html</ref>

For more information please see: [[Theories of New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]

=== Christian apologist Vox Day on the issue of atheism and obesity ===

In 2011, [[Christian apologetics|Christian apologist]] [[Vox Day]] had an individual complain about the notion that the atheist community has a problem with obesity (Please see: [[Atheism and obesity]]). As a result, on May 19, 2011, Vox Day released a blog post entitled ''Mailvox: now, who said atheists are fat?'' where 80% of the people taking a picture with PZ Myers were overweight and PZ Myers was overweight in the picture as well as can be seen [http://voxday.blogspot.com/2011/05/mailvox-now-who-said-atheists-are-fat.html HERE]. The picture was originally posted on PZ Myer's blog [[Pharyngula (blog)|Pharyngula]] by Myers on May 16, 2011 and an online argument quickly ensued concerning the appearance of the photograph's participants.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/at_least_you_can_see_a_hint_of.php</ref>

== PZ Myers' reaction to daughter Skatje Myers' comments on bestiality ==

''See also:'' [[Atheism and bestiality]] and [[Skeptic Skatje Myers' comments on bestiality]]

Skeptic Skatje Myers, the daughter of [[evolution|evolutionist]] and atheist PZ Myers describes herself as "atheist, [[agnosticism|agnostic]], rationalist, complicated vegetarian (sans dairy and eggs mostly, avec dumpster diving, by-products, and ethical sources), [[Existentialism|existential]] and moral [[nihilism|nihilist]], social democrat”.<ref>[http://www.civitatedei.com/2011/07/skatje-myers-on-the-separation-of-church-and-state/ Skatje Myers on The Separation of Church and State]</ref>

On January 2, 2008 Christian apologist [[Vox Day]] wrote in an article entitled ''Atheist Dad of the Year'':
{{cquote|If I were ever to have attacked [[atheism]] by arguing that on the rare occasions when atheists manage to successfully reproduce, their children would likely grow up possessing beliefs that are utterly immoral by Western moral norms and abhorrent to the average individual, many people would howl that I was unfairly engaging in baseless conjecture, regardless of the logic presented.

So, it's more than a little amusing to see PZ Myers angrily defending his daughter's public argument against anti-bestiality laws. Now, it's certainly the girl's right to advocate on behalf of whatever legal cause she feels is important to her, but this particular choice of subject really doesn't provide the most convincing evidence against the oft-repeated charge that atheists are hopelessly immoral. And if there's nothing rationally objectionable about the practice, then from whence comes this defensive paternal outrage?

The ironic truth is that Miss Myers is absolutely correct; once the basic concept of [[Natural Law]] is abandoned, there is no rational basis for banning anything from necrophilia to cannibalism other than a vague sense of "ickiness" inherited from preceding generations possessed of a more conventional morality.<ref>[http://voxday.blogspot.com/2008/01/atheist-dad-of-year.html Atheist Dad of the Year]</ref>}}

Skatje Myers, the daughter of atheist PZ Myers, wrote:
{{cquote|Sexual relationships between humans and animals come as such a shock to people, but it doesn’t to me. There can be very deep, meaningful relationships between humans and their pets...

That said, I remind you that my position isn’t based on my own personal wants. I just don’t see any reason to ban it other than the same reason things like [[homosexuality]] and sodomy were banned: it’s icky. I think it’s bad practice to put social taboos into legislature when no actual logical argument can be made against it.<ref>[http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/01/just_when_you_think_slimy_sal.php Skatje Myers, Daughter of atheist PZ Myers - in blog comments section of PZ Myers' blog post]</ref><ref>[http://sd-10807.dedibox.fr/show_items-feed=b8f260ba6c2ca74f75f0ec7dd4fee078?page=2 RSS feed - Lacrimae Rerum,blog of Skatje Myers, blog article - Zoophilia Oct 2, 2007]</ref>}}

See also: [[Atheism and bestiality]] and [[Evolutionary belief and bestiality]]

=== Skatje Myers on morality ===

On August 18, 2011, Skatje Myers wrote:
{{cquote|I’m a moral nihilist. I have no reason to believe that morality is anything other than preferences.

I have those preferences, of course — essentially it’s just intuitional leanings. Any need or desire to follow those leanings is purely for my own enjoyment. I decide what is right and wrong based on what I feel is right and wrong, and I follow them only because of a self-created obligation to myself. I demand that others follow the same “rules” I have for myself, because I want them to. It makes the world the way I want it to be.

The way I see it, every other system of morality is based on unjustifiable claims too, so why follow someone else’s invented ideas of right and wrong?<ref>[http://lacrimae-rerum.org/?p=169 Morality by Skaje Myers]</ref>}}

== PZ Myers and militant atheism ==

PZ Myers is a [[militant atheism|militant atheist]] who has openly advocated the elimination of religion, likening it to illiteracy.<ref>http://www.atheistrev.com/2008/03/pz-myers-on-eliminating-religion.html</ref>
His language is extremely militant at times, and laced with expletives. In a diatribe in which he described those who believe in the Bible as "lunatics" and "bigots," Myers said:
{{cquote|I say, screw the polite words and careful rhetoric. It's time for scientists to break out the steel-toed boots and brass knuckles, and get out there and hammer on the lunatics and idiots.<ref>http://web.archive.org/web/20070420142719/http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/perspective/</ref>}}

PZ Myers frequently rants against religion, religious people, and religious institutions (e.g. churches) on his blog. Myers has called evangelical Christianity "a blight upon the earth,"<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/03/left_or_right_religion_and_pol.php/</ref> religious people "ignorant, deluded, wicked, foolish, or oppressed victims of obsolete mythologies,"<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/07/im_surrounded.php</ref> and considers every church to be a "parasitic institution that contributes nothing to the tax base and encourages further ignorance in the population."<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/07/how_do_you_save_small_town_cha.php</ref> Myers has yet to offer scholarly work on the subject of atheism<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-emotively-vociferous-intellectually-mute</ref> (for example, PZ Myers has yet to offer scholarly works on the subjects of [[atheism and mass murder]] and [[atheism and uncharitableness]]). In addition, given Myers' diatribes that religious people are allegedly ignorant and deluded, it is quite ironic that Myers has yet to offer any compelling atheist apologetic material rebutting the studies that indicate the [[Irreligion and superstition|irreligious are generally more superstitious than evangelical Christians]].

=== Militant atheism and intellectual slothfulness of PZ Myers===

''See also:'' [[Irreligion and superstition]] and [[Militant atheism and intellectual slothfulness of PZ Myers]]

The [[Christian apologetics|Christian apologetic]] website [[True Free Thinker]] declares concerning the intellectual [[Sloth (sin)|slothfulness]] of PZ Myers:
{{cquote|That PZ Myers is emotively vociferous is evident to anyone who reads, well, virtually anything that he has ever written on any subject at all.

It is likewise evident that he is intellectually mute. How so? Where are his scholarly works on the truth of atheism? He has produced none.

He merely presupposes God’s non-existence without evidence, see:

[http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/its-name-doom-%E2%80%94-pz-myers%E2%80%99-priori-presuppositional-presumption-atheism ITS NAME IS DOOM — PZ Myers’ A Priori Presuppositional Presumption of Atheism]

[http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-refreshingly-honest-doom-gloom-and-positive-affirmation-god%E2%80%99s-non-existence-boot PZ Myers is Refreshingly Honest: Doom, Gloom and a Positive Affirmation of God’s Non-Existence to Boot!]

[http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-%E2%80%93-contra-mitch-daniels-and-pro-positive-affirmation-god%E2%80%99s-non-existence-part-1-2 PZ Myers – Contra Mitch Daniels and Pro Positive Affirmation of God’s Non-Existence, part 1 of 2]

[http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-%E2%80%93-contra-mitch-daniels-and-pro-positive-affirmation-god%E2%80%99s-non-existence-part-1-2 PZ Myers’ Dogmatheism Catechism]

Etc., etc., etc.....

Where then are his proofs of atheism and disproof of theism?
None exist but merely emotive besmirchments of straw-men and straw-gods.

His lack of scholarship and intellectual rigor in these areas, as well as the truth of my statements above, may be demonstrated in the following examples (which are a mere few of many).

PZ Myers dismisses [[Vox Day]]’s book ''The Irrational Atheist: Dissecting the Unholy Trinity of Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens'' while admitting to only having read a few chapters.
[[Image:Stephen Meyer.jpg|thumb|150px|right|Dr. [[Stephen Meyer]] published an article favoring [[intelligent design]] in a peer reviewed science journal which had traditionally only published material advocating the [[evolution|evolutionary]] position.<ref>http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=1489</ref>]]
Yet, he refuses to debate Vox Day on the existence of God, or evolution for that matter (Myers being a professor of biology) based on dismissing a book he barely read (yes, it is merely a lame excuse which he peppered with a barrage of emotive ad hominems) — see [http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/speaking-assiduous-absconders%E2%80%A6yet-again-vox-day-challenges-pz-myers-debate Speaking of Assiduous Absconders…Yet Again, Vox Day Challenges PZ Myers to Debate].

PZ Myers also dismissed [[Stephen Meyer]]’s book ''Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for [[Intelligent Design]]'' referring to it as a “stinker,” “drivel” and “[[Discovery Institute]] Bulldung” whilst stating that, “Stephen Meyer lies.” Yet, he stated all of this, and more, whilst stating, “I suppose I’ll have to read that 600 page pile of slop sometime…”....This fact alone shows that he needs to read it, as Intelligent Design proponents are constantly begging their opponents to stop mischaracterizing Intelligent Design theory as holding to something to the likes of it’s so complex, it must have been . . . designed!

PZ Myers also refused to debate anyone from [[Creation Ministries International]] (CMI) even while he was in Australia for the preaching-to-the-choir-back-patting Global Atheist Convention - The Rise of Atheism – the “biggest ever atheist event in Australia’s history”...

Clearly, PZ Myers is popular because he scratches where many atheists itch: atheism is an [[Causes of atheism|emotional rejection of God]] very, very thinly veneered in a facade of scientific and intellectual respectability. Thus, PZ Myers plays upon and stokes the fires of emotion yet, he has not, is not and who knows if he ever will engage the intellect.<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-emotively-vociferous-intellectually-mute</ref>}}

=== Refusal to debate at atheist global conference and brief radio debate ===

''See also:'' [[Richard Dawkins' public refusal to debate creationists]]

In 2010, the worldwide atheist community was challenged to a debate by [[Creation Ministries International]] as prominent atheists were speaking at a 2010 global atheist convention in [[Australia]].<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/richard-dawkins-cowardly-clown</ref> [[Richard Dawkins]], PZ Myers and other prominent atheists refused to debate Creation Ministries International.<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/richard-dawkins-cowardly-clown</ref> Generally speaking, [[Creation scientists tend to win the creation vs. evolution debates|creation scientists tend to win the creation vs. evolution debates]].

The website [[True Free Thinker]] declared concerning the refusal of [[Richard Dawkins]], PZ Myers and other prominent atheists to debate the [[creation science|creation scientists]] and other staff at [[Creation Ministries International]]:
{{cquote|In keeping with his constant attention getting shenanigans and his equally constant absconding from debating apt challengers via a barrage of illogical and excuses, the moniker of cowardly clown fits Richard Dawkins more than ever (see [http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/send-clowns-%E2%80%93-richard-dawkins-obliges Send in the Clowns – Richard Dawkins Obliges]).
[[Image:Jonathansafarti.jpg|thumbnail|right|300px|Dr. [[Jonathan Sarfati]] ]]
Enter Jonathan Sarfati (PhD in chemistry),senior scientist at Creation Ministries International, who recently published the book “The Greatest Hoax on Earth? Refuting Dawkins on Evolution.” Interestingly, Jonathan Sarfati sought to publish the book by the time that the 2010 Global Atheist Convention—billed as “The Rise of Atheism”—of March 12-14 at the Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Center in Australia.

The most intelligent, well informed and vociferous atheists in the world, including [http://www.truefreethinker.com/richard-dawkins Richard Dawkins], [http://www.truefreethinker.com/dan-barker Dan Barker], [http://www.truefreethinker.com/pz-myers PZ Myers], et al, were challenged to debate while their worldwide choir was gathered in one place and yet, one by one they each found excuses to cower from debate even whilst proclaiming to their adherents the intellectual superiority of [[atheism]].<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/richard-dawkins-cowardly-clown</ref>}}

In January 2008, Myers participated in a brief radio debate with [[Discovery Institute]] fellow Geoffrey Simmons on [[Minneapolis]]/[[St. Paul]] radio station KKMS.<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk5Y3VoBeVQ</ref>

== PZ Myers refusal to debate Vox Day ==

''See also:'' [[Atheism and cowardice]] and [[Atheism and Debate|Atheism and debate]]

On September 4, 2011, [[Christian apologetics|Christian apologist]] [[Vox Day]] wrote concerning PZ Myers:
{{cquote|I have heard from numerous atheists who find his intellectual cowardice to be more than a little troubling given his usual tendency to create conflict rather than to avoid it. And he has handed an out to every single individual he ever hopes to challenge in the future. Why should they debate a nobody like him, a clown who isn't even a bigshot in his own field?

As for the PZ Myers Memorial Debate, we are still in search of an atheist to champion the argument that the logic and evidence for the nonexistence of gods is stronger than the logic and evidence for the existence of gods. It is certainly informative to see how many atheists do not appear to believe they are able to effectively make this case; in light of this, many Christians may find this to be a useful tactical approach when confronted by aggressive atheists in the future. This tends to confirm my previous observations that while atheists like to challenge the beliefs of others, they are very ill-prepared, and in many cases downright unwilling, to defend their own. So, if you want to shut them up, simply go on the attack. They'll run away with alacrity.<ref>[http://voxday.blogspot.com/2011/09/he-still-runs-like-girl.html Running, running by Vox Day]</ref>}}

On August 28, 2011, Vox Day declared concerning Myers:
{{cquote|What you clearly do not understand is that, [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/we_arent_angry_were_effective.php by his own admission], PZ relies heavily upon emotional arguments rather than logical ones when he cannot simply appeal to an established scientific consensus. "I'll also cop to the obvious fact that, knowing that reason will not get through their skills, I'm happy to use emotional arguments as well. Passion is persuasive." His tendency to rely upon emotional rhetoric and passion rather than reason is precisely why he is afraid to debate people who rely primarily upon logic, because his ability to present reason-based arguments is relatively low. His ability to utilize reason is simply not equal to the skill of others who make use of it more effectively. PZ is without question an effective preacher to the godless choir of science fetishists, but he is remarkably unskilled at presenting convincing arguments, let alone conclusive ones, to those who do not already agree with him. Unlike you, he knows he is not an effective evangelist.<ref>[http://voxday.blogspot.com/2011/08/can-one-dodge-dodger.html Can one dodge a dodger?]</ref>}}

== The claim that PZ Myers' blog audience tends to be quarrelsome and socially challenged men ==

''See also:'' [[Elevatorgate]] and [[Atheism and the internet]]

Survey data and website tracking data of prominent atheist websites indicate that in the [[Western World]], [[Atheism appears to be significantly less appealing to women|atheism appears to be significantly less appealing to women]].

In 2007, [[Vox Day]] wrote:
[[File:Vox Day.jpg|thumbnail|right|210px|[[Vox Day]] ]]
{{cquote|It's not just a figment of my imagination, it seems atheists truly are socially autistic by their own report. Asperger's Syndrome is a disorder described as "autistic psychopathy" by its discoverer, Dr. Hans Asperger. Those with the disorder tend to be intelligent, socially awkward and difficult to converse with. They are also likely to be male.

Based on ''[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'' magazine's observation that atheists tend to be quarrelsome, socially challenged men, to say nothing of the unpleasant personalities of leading public atheists such as [[Richard Dawkins]], [[Christopher Hitchens]] and Michel Onfray, one could reasonably hypothesize that there is likely to be a strong correlation between Asperger's and atheism. It's by no means a scientific test, but it is interesting to note the coincidence that 59 of the virulent atheists over at Dr. [[Pharyngula (blog)|PZ Myers place]] report an average score on the Asperger's Quotient test of 27.8. And this does not include the two individuals who actually have Asperger's but did not report any test results.

The test notes that "Scores over 32 are generally taken to indicate Asperger's Syndrome or high-functioning autism". The average male score is 18, the average female score is 15. By way of comparison, I scored 14...

Obviously, more comprehensive and scientific tests would be advised before any definite conclusion can be reached...<ref>http://voxday.blogspot.com/2007/08/socially-autistic-atheist.html</ref>}}

In 2010, the [[Christian apologetics]] website [[True Free Thinker]] wrote:
{{cquote|Scienceblogger [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2008/04/the_cost_of_not_framing.php Chad Orzel described] the commentators on PZ Myers ' Scienceblogs.com site [[Pharyngula (blog)|Pharyngula]], and other Scienceblogs.com commentators, as "screechy monkeys."<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-and-pavlovs-monkeys</ref>}}

Of course, there is no necessity to assert that atheists are more likely to have Asperger's Syndrome. The historical militancy of the atheist/[[evolution|evolutionist]] community and the ideas their ideologies have often engendered provides more than enough explanatory power to explain the origin of the quarrelsomeness and other social deficiencies of many in the atheists/evolutionist population (see: [[militant atheism]] and [[Social effects of the theory of evolution|social effects of the theory of evolution]] ). In fact, it is arguably the best explanation for the quarrelsomeness and other social deficiencies of many in the atheist/evolutionist community. In addition, ultimately the decision to reject or be reconciled with [[God]] is a matter relating to the [[grace]] of God and [[free will]] and nobody is forced into [[atheism]] due to a physical condition.

=== PZ Myers' commentary concerning atheist meetings ===

PZ Myers recently commented that atheist meetings tend to be significantly more attended by males.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/the_woman_problem.php</ref> Mr. Myers commentary concerning atheist meetings is not surprising given that survey data and website tracking data of prominent atheist websites indicate that in the Western World, [[Atheism appears to be significantly less appealing to women|atheism appears to be significantly less appealing to women]].

== PZ Myers' blog posts often lack substance ==

''See also:'' [[Atheism and the internet]] and [[Irreligion and superstition]] and [[PZ Myers' blog post and quality problems]]

In 2010, the [[Christian apologetics|Christian apologetic]] website [[True Free Thinker]] declared:
{{cquote|Just a few years ago PZ Myers fellow Sciencebloggers were complaining about his general lack of substance and about his cult of personality amen chorus of adherents whom were dubbed the [http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-and-pavlovs-monkeys screechy monkeys]. PZ Myers should be thankful that Scienceblogs is not about science blogs and does not demand science on its Scienceblogs or else 99.9% of all posts on [http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-pseudoscienceblogscom his pseudo-science blog] would have to be deleted or, would have never been posted in the first place.

Now it is [http://scienceblogs.com/commonknowledge/2010/07/of_pepsi_and_scienceblogs.php PZ Myers who is complaining] about his fellow Sciencebloggers as he states that Scienceblogs has been facing a steady erosion of talent. The key question is What sort of talent? Talented at doing what?

If he references the talent to elucidate matters scientific then he is quite lacking himself.

If he refers to peppering virtually every post with ad hominems, mythunderstandings, promulgating of prejudice and positively affirming Gods non-existence without evidence then he is the pseudo-science blogger par excellence.<ref>http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/pz-myers-contra-scienceblogs</ref>}}

== ''Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed'' ==
[[File:PZ Myers.jpg|thumbnail|220px|right|PZ Myers,
 
 
(photo obtained from [http://www.flickr.com/photos/gavinzac/4328612187/ Flickr], see [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/deed.en license agreement]) ]]
''See also:'' [[Irreligion and superstition]]

Myers appeared in the film ''[[Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed]]''. In the film, Myers compared religion to knitting and said it should be nothing more than "something fun that people get together and do on the weekend and really doesn't affect their life as much as it has been so far."<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHiZjOH1NmQ</ref> Up to and after the release of the film, PZ Myers viciously attacked the film and its makers many times and engaged in bizarre behavior. Two of the most notable incidents involved his failed attempt to gate-crash a showing of the film at the Mall of America<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/science/21expelledw.html</ref> and his crashing and disruption (including plugging himself) of a conference call held by ''Expelled'''s producers after calling in early (likely to eavesdrop) and overhearing and then dishonestly using the phone code that allowed two-way communication.<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYAblaZmogA</ref><ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/i_always_aim_to_misbehave.php</ref> Most bizarrely, in the latter incident, Myers interruption of the producers' call began with his referring to himself in the third person, probably in an attempt to conceal both his identity and the fact that he used a phone code he was not authorized to use.

== Creation Museum buffoonery ==

''See also:'' [[Essay: PZ Myers embarrasses himself at the Creation Museum|PZ Myers embarrasses himself at the Creation Museum]] - [[satire]]

In August 2009, Myers led a group of over 300 atheist and agnostic students on a tour of the [[Creation Museum]].<ref>[http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=8280168 "Creation Museum: Is This How World Began?" (ABC News)]</ref> During the visit, Myers had noticeably greater difficulty than others climbing on and off a dinosaur model due to the fact that he was overweight and out of shape.[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQQl2TMrgbM VIDEO] In addition, the purpose of the dinosaur model is clearly for children to sit on for photographs.<ref>http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/aroundtheworld/2009/08/16/children-and-the-creation-museum/</ref><ref>[http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/53237252.html "A firebrand visits Creation Museum" (Minneapolis Star-Tribune)]</ref> Myers donned a borrowed cowboy hat and was egged on by the cheers and laughter of the students.<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQQl2TMrgbM</ref>

== PZ Myers on abortion ==
[[Image:115523-004-FA619CA3.jpg|thumb|right|250px| The perverse and cruel [[atheism|atheist]] [[Marquis de Sade]] was an early advocate of [[abortion]] in the [[Western World]].<ref>http://jme.bmj.com/content/6/1/7.abstract</ref>]]
See also: [[PZ Myers and abortion]] and [[Atheism and mass murder]] and [[Atheism and morality]]

PZ Myers is not only "pro-choice", but he said he is "even willing to say" that he is pro-[[abortion]].<ref>http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/11/pz_myers_on_abortion040971.html</ref>

The website Evolution News and Views wrote:
{{cquote|Myers again, on abortion:

'what's at stake is a mere embryo, so it's no big loss if it's flushed and incinerated, and I don't have any illusions about whether this is deciding the fate of a human life -- it's not. There's no person...'

Myers' ugly assertion -- 'it's no big loss if it's flushed and incinerated...[t]here's no person -- demonstrates the [[New Atheism|New Atheist]] moral vacuum. [[Atheism and morality|New Atheists insist that there is no objective moral law]]; morality is nothing more than an evolved adaptation, or what each of us decides, ad nauseam. Yet if there is no objective moral law that transcends the individual will to power, then power, not justice nor mercy nor even love for one's own child, governs human conduct. Atheist morality boils down to this: '... because we can'. That has been the moral code of atheism in power for a century.<ref>http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/11/pz_myers_on_abortion040971.html</ref>}}

In 2011, Myers wrote that when he sees dead baby pictures: "I look at them unflinchingly and see meat."<ref>http://www.examiner.com/christian-apologetics-in-albuquerque/pz-myers-best-reason-for-rejecting-atheism-murdered-babies-are-just-meat</ref>

[[Christian apologetics|Christian apologist]] Mariano Grinbank wrote in response to PZ Myers remarks concerning abortion:
{{cquote|What a tragic figure, what a deprivation of all that is human and humane, what a sad, sick and depraved [[soul]]: what a by product of atheism.

Beautiful, healthy, innocent and defenseless human babies who were brutally murdered in unimaginably brutal and inhuman, inhumane, and subhuman manners are to be likened to rats, mice, dogs, and misc amputated body parts. In his reductionist eyes it is all merely temporarily animated meat.<ref>http://www.examiner.com/christian-apologetics-in-albuquerque/pz-myers-best-reason-for-rejecting-atheism-murdered-babies-are-just-meat</ref>}}

PZ Myers's views are not surprising given the [[History of Atheism|history of atheism]] in relation to the abortion issue. The ''Journal of Medical Ethics'' article declared concerning the [[atheism|atheist]] and [[sadism|sadist]] [[Marquis de Sade]]:
{{cquote|In 1795 the Marquis de Sade published his La Philosophic dans le boudoir, in which he proposed the use of induced abortion for social reasons and as a means of [[population control]]. It is from this time that medical and social acceptance of abortion can be dated, although previously the subject had not been discussed in public in modern times. It is suggested that it was largely due to de Sade's writing that induced abortion received the impetus which resulted in its subsequent spread in western society.<ref>http://jme.bmj.com/content/6/1/7.abstract</ref>}}

[[Population control]] is based on [[pseudoscience]] and ill founded [[economics|economic]] assumptions.<ref>http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/11/pz_myers_on_abortion040971.html</ref>

== Communion host ==
On July 8, 2008, PZ Myers posted an entry attacking Roman Catholic beliefs regards Communion. He was reacting to a news story, in which a student at the University of Central Florida described a physical confrontation over his failure to consume a communion wafer.<ref>'Body Of Christ' Snatched From Church, Held Hostage By UCF Student, July 5, 2008[http://www.wftv.com/news/16798008/detail.html]</ref><ref>'Body Of Christ" Returned To Church After Student Receives Email Threats, July 7, 2008[http://www.wftv.com/news/16806050/detail.html]</ref> After ridiculing some people as "petty, hateful, and stupid," and asserting that "nothing makes them stupider than religion," Myers requested that his readers steal consecrated Communion wafers for him, so that he could desecrate them on camera. This rant predictably resulted in a strongly negative response from Catholics and those who support freedom of religious expression <ref>http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1459</ref>; Myers has since complained about the "hate mail" and "death threats" he has received, comparing the defense of Communion to a "witch hunt." To date, the University of Minnesota has not taken official action against Myers for his inflammatory remarks, other than to remove the link to his blog from his faculty page.<ref>http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1460</ref> PZ Myers followed through with his threat, desecrating a eucharist and tearing out pages of a copy of the [[Koran]] and a copy of [[Richard Dawkins]]' ''The God Delusion''.<ref>http://discoverthefaith.com/2008/07/26/update-on-professor-myers-desecration-of-eucharist/</ref>

Meanwhile, Myers posted two vitriolic emails he had received and included the email addresses where they supposedly had come from. Predictably, his readers responded with their own threatening and harassing emails even though at the time it was not clear whether or not the email addresses had been spoofed One was allegedly from someone at 1-800-Flowers, though the husband of the user of the address subsequently owned up to sending the e-mail.<ref>http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/071608-woman-fired-over-death-threat.html</ref> The account owner was fired by the company. Myers commented on the firing, saying, "She apparently did something stupid, which I don't have sympathy for. I would just rather not see people getting fired over an e-mail message."<ref>http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/071608-woman-fired-over-death-threat.html?page=2)</ref> Myers attempted to save face, claiming that the unsurprising behavior by his readers was not the intent behind his posting of the email addresses, and called for his readers to stop "dunning these people with email, threatening them back, signing them up for spam, or otherwise being a jerk." These pleas fell on deaf ears, while PZ Myers continued to avoid doing the obvious thing in simply removing the email addresses from his blog.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/stop_it_now_please.php</ref><ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/mail_dump.php</ref>

==Myers and Conservapedia==
True to liberal values, Myers has banned all direct references and links to Conservapedia on his blog due to what he claims was "serious problems with spamming" involving Conservapedia members.<ref>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/conservapdia_has_a_new_project.php</ref> Of course, no spamming (repeatedly posting the same message) actually occurred, making Myers' accusation a lie. Rather, his banning is an attempt to silence legitimate criticism which he is simply incapable of addressing.
== See also ==

*[[Resources for leaving atheism and becoming a Christian]]
*[[Irreligion and superstition]]
*[[Rebecca Watson]]

Comedy and satire:

* [[Essay: Professor PZ Myers fails his applied biology course|Professor PZ Myers fails his applied biology course]] - [[satire]]
*[[Essay: PZ Myers embarrasses himself at the Creation Museum|PZ Myers embarrasses himself at the Creation Museum]] - satire
*[[Essay: PZ Myers finally looks more like Ken Ham|PZ Myers finally looks more like Ken Ham!]] - satire
*[[Essay: A reply to atheist and evolutionist PZ Myers|A reply to atheist and evolutionist PZ Myers]] - satire
*[[Essay: PZ Myers vs. C.S. Lewis|PZ Myers vs. C.S. Lewis]] - satire
*[[Essay: Ponies vs. atheism - Ponies win|Ponies vs. PZ Myers - Ponies win!]] - satire
*[[Essay: Western atheists sumo wrestling - survival of the fattest?| Western atheists sumo wrestling - survival of the fattest?]] - satire
*[[Essay: PZ Myers evolved into a pig|PZ Myers evolved into a pig]] - satire
*[[Essay: PZ Myers' greatest fear|PZ Myers' greatest fear]] - satire
*[[Evolutionists who have had problems with being overweight and/or obese]]
*[[Essay: The atheist and evolutionist helpline|Atheist and evolutionist helpline]] - [[satire]]
*[[Comedy and satires concerning atheism and evolution]] ('''large collection''' of comedy/satire concerning [[atheism]] and [[evolution]])
*[[Essay: Atheists say the darnedest things!|Atheists say the darnedest things!]] - satire
*[[Essay: Atheists' meetings|Atheists' meetings]] - satire

==External Links==
*[http://www.truefreethinker.com/pz-myers PZ Myers - Christian rebuttals] by [[True Free Thinker]]
*[http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/07/pz_myers_replies_with_incendia048251.html PZ Myers Replies with Incendiary Rhetoric Instead of Scientific Arguments]
*[http://www.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula Pharyngula] <big>'''Non-family-friendly content warning.'''</big>
{{nb_Atheism}}

==References ==
{{reflist}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Myers, Paul Zachary}}
[[Category:PZ Myers]]
[[Category:Atheism]]
[[Category: New Atheism]]
[[Category:Evolution]]
[[Category:Biologists]]
[[Category:Atheists]]
[[Category:Evolutionists]]

Talk:Bestiality

2011-09-26T22:52:39Z

LeonardS: /* US law */

No need to be lurid; the quote already provides as much of a definition as we need "[[molest]]ing animals". --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 10:24, 20 January 2010 (EST)

==Demography of this perversion==

The deleted reference mentioned that this perversion is "extremely rare". It also briefly mentioned a write-in campaign promoting the idea that "highly educated professionals" engaged in the practice. But:

* Unfortunately, although intriguing, it was impossible to establish the veracity of most letters.

Please read articles before using them as sources. Often, buried in the details, you'll find a fact that disproves the point you were hoping to make with the source. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 15:43, 24 September 2011 (EDT)

== US law ==

Hey, I love your articles! Its great to see that idiot Myers on the spot as the true consequences of his religion are pointed out. Just one thing though. If I was you I'd take out the bit about US state law on bestiality. The reason is that its legal in 5 of the top 10 most Christian states but only in 4 of the 10 least Christian. I know that dont really mean anything but atheists could twist it and use it to attack you. Keep up the Lord's work! --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 18:44, 26 September 2011 (EDT)
:Oh yeah, that was the other thing. Its banned in Alaska already, has been for years. Its just that its in animal welfare law, not morality ones. Still banned though.

:p.s. I love your editing system. The shortcut buttons for refs etc are awesome. --[[User:LeonardS|LeonardS]] 18:52, 26 September 2011 (EDT)

Talk:Bestiality

2011-09-26T22:44:40Z

LeonardS: /* US law */ new section