Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:List of dictators

2014-04-07T15:15:00Z

Olko: /* Add here Viktor Yanukovych */

How far back are we going here? [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 10:34, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
----
OldRight, Can you give us some background on the dispute in WP, that may be of interest elesewhere. Thanks. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 10:40, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

== Absolute Monarch vs. Dictator ==
Often confused, an absolute (non constitutional) monarch with right of ascension is distinct form a dictator, even if they behave dictatorially. All of the country, people and property, and all the laws are subjects of the monarch who may change them. Such a monarch may be ambivalent, aggressive, abusive, passive, kind, cruel, have secret police, etc, but if they are a a monarch with hereditary ascension rights, they are not a dictator. Note, much of the list, with 2-3 errors, or instance where someone has declared themselves king, refers to presidents, party secretaries, generals, prime ministers, shoguns, chancellors, etc.

It would be good to have a list of "kings behaving badly" that is distinct from dictators.

Also note, historically, rule by dictat had time limits, if not limited to life of the individual.

Please maintain the list accordingly.

: Technically I think you are right but normal users understand better in a simple way. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 00:20, 6 January 2011 (EST)

== Bush ==

George W. Bush satisfies all these five criteria.

* is an absolute ruler of a sovereign state;
**Bush can do anything he wants, thanks to the PATRIOT Act and his veto
* governs outside the otherwise accepted rule of law;
**Guantánamo Bay (locking up unconvicted alleged "terrorists" and torturing them because the area doesn't legally belong to the US and thus the basic human rights don't apply there)
* commonly (but not necessarily) gained power through fraud or a coup d'état, or resorts to them to stay in power;
**The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2000|2000 elections] clearly weren't fair...
* may develop a cult of personality;
**[http://www.alarmingnews.com/archives/Bush%20love%202.jpg][http://www.willisms.com/archives/bushingeorgia.gif]
* may be autocratic, oppressive, despotic or tyrannical.
**He was tyrannical/oppressive when invading and conquering Iraq.[http://www.bushflash.com/occupied.html][http://www.bushflash.com/antiwar2.html]

Also see [http://www.bushflash.com/14.html] for more proof.

[[User:Liberalism|Liberalism]] 16:13, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
::Are you serious? Or are you a parodist? [[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]] 16:59, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

:''The following message moved from my talk page. — [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]]''
What's wrong with [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=List_of_dictators&diff=235708&oldid=228274 this] entry? I explained my reasons on the [[Talk:List of dictators|talk page]]. [[User:Liberalism|Liberalism]] 16:26, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

:President Bush is not a dictator; this is merely your attempt to denigrate him. Your reasons above don't stand up to scrutiny. For example, I don't believe for one moment that President Bush is not subject to the decisions of the Supreme Court, so he can't do "anything he wants", and besides, the power of veto allows him to ''stop'' legislation he disagrees with, not to ''pass'' legislation to do "anything he wants". [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 19:12, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

== Dates ==

Since this is protected, can someone please dewikilink the dates? I know from the [[Special:Wantedpages|wantedpages]] that there's at least a 2004 wikilinked. (I also saw a 1982). Thanks. [[User:Jazzman831|Jazzman831]] 22:19, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

*LOL! You know, I actually started to do it, but then realized it is so complicated, that I would really screw it up royally! Please, please do it....--[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 22:29, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

:Can do! (Ctrl+F is my friend!) [[User:Jazzman831|Jazzman831]] 22:31, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

::Ok done (I think). Dunno if it still needs protected, since the person involved with the edit war is now blocked. But it's not up to me... [[User:Jazzman831|Jazzman831]] 22:44, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

*Yeah, but if left open, I will wake up tomorrow and see Bush and the Pope there. Thank you so very much, Jazzman! --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 22:50, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

== Some more names ==

Very nice list first of all, Second thing, i think a few names in this list have been missed, from Ibn Saud to King Abdullah, all dictators of Saudi Arabia should be added here.

Although i don't think so about King Faisal who was ruler from 1964 - 1975, as he was 'anti communist', :-

http://blog.nixonfoundation.org/2010/06/thirty-six-years-ago-rn-meets-king-faisal/

But every other name should be added. [[User:Regular|Regular]] 07:52, 6 June 2012 (EDT)

==Criteria==
In common use, "dictator" means "a leader I don't like." But for a list like this we need less subjective criteria. Robespierre was just one of twelve people on the Committee of Public Safety, so I don't see a basis to include him. Egypt and many other countries have a tradition of army involvement in politics. Sadat and Mubarak were dictators only if you take multi-party democracy as the norm. [[User:PeterKa|PeterKa]] 21:27, 14 January 2014 (EST)

== Add here Viktor Yanukovych ==

He had big wealth when he was president,he could appoint and remove from office ministres and regional heads,so we can call him absolute ruler,his house was given him illegally and he'd doing a lot of illegal operations for laundering money,so he governed outside the accepted rule of law,also he admitted in his press-conference in Rostov-on-Don that he led international troops and police units which fought against Euromaidan,so he also had kiling and tortured people,and all this if not to count lack of fair judicial system and forcible confiscation of business and a lot of another things which were did by people which came with him,so why he's not a dictator?

Talk:List of dictators

2014-04-06T15:24:00Z

Olko: /* Add here Viktor Yanukovych */ new section

How far back are we going here? [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 10:34, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
----
OldRight, Can you give us some background on the dispute in WP, that may be of interest elesewhere. Thanks. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 10:40, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

== Absolute Monarch vs. Dictator ==
Often confused, an absolute (non constitutional) monarch with right of ascension is distinct form a dictator, even if they behave dictatorially. All of the country, people and property, and all the laws are subjects of the monarch who may change them. Such a monarch may be ambivalent, aggressive, abusive, passive, kind, cruel, have secret police, etc, but if they are a a monarch with hereditary ascension rights, they are not a dictator. Note, much of the list, with 2-3 errors, or instance where someone has declared themselves king, refers to presidents, party secretaries, generals, prime ministers, shoguns, chancellors, etc.

It would be good to have a list of "kings behaving badly" that is distinct from dictators.

Also note, historically, rule by dictat had time limits, if not limited to life of the individual.

Please maintain the list accordingly.

: Technically I think you are right but normal users understand better in a simple way. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 00:20, 6 January 2011 (EST)

== Bush ==

George W. Bush satisfies all these five criteria.

* is an absolute ruler of a sovereign state;
**Bush can do anything he wants, thanks to the PATRIOT Act and his veto
* governs outside the otherwise accepted rule of law;
**Guantánamo Bay (locking up unconvicted alleged "terrorists" and torturing them because the area doesn't legally belong to the US and thus the basic human rights don't apply there)
* commonly (but not necessarily) gained power through fraud or a coup d'état, or resorts to them to stay in power;
**The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2000|2000 elections] clearly weren't fair...
* may develop a cult of personality;
**[http://www.alarmingnews.com/archives/Bush%20love%202.jpg][http://www.willisms.com/archives/bushingeorgia.gif]
* may be autocratic, oppressive, despotic or tyrannical.
**He was tyrannical/oppressive when invading and conquering Iraq.[http://www.bushflash.com/occupied.html][http://www.bushflash.com/antiwar2.html]

Also see [http://www.bushflash.com/14.html] for more proof.

[[User:Liberalism|Liberalism]] 16:13, 17 July 2007 (EDT)
::Are you serious? Or are you a parodist? [[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]] 16:59, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

:''The following message moved from my talk page. — [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]]''
What's wrong with [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=List_of_dictators&diff=235708&oldid=228274 this] entry? I explained my reasons on the [[Talk:List of dictators|talk page]]. [[User:Liberalism|Liberalism]] 16:26, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

:President Bush is not a dictator; this is merely your attempt to denigrate him. Your reasons above don't stand up to scrutiny. For example, I don't believe for one moment that President Bush is not subject to the decisions of the Supreme Court, so he can't do "anything he wants", and besides, the power of veto allows him to ''stop'' legislation he disagrees with, not to ''pass'' legislation to do "anything he wants". [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 19:12, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

== Dates ==

Since this is protected, can someone please dewikilink the dates? I know from the [[Special:Wantedpages|wantedpages]] that there's at least a 2004 wikilinked. (I also saw a 1982). Thanks. [[User:Jazzman831|Jazzman831]] 22:19, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

*LOL! You know, I actually started to do it, but then realized it is so complicated, that I would really screw it up royally! Please, please do it....--[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 22:29, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

:Can do! (Ctrl+F is my friend!) [[User:Jazzman831|Jazzman831]] 22:31, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

::Ok done (I think). Dunno if it still needs protected, since the person involved with the edit war is now blocked. But it's not up to me... [[User:Jazzman831|Jazzman831]] 22:44, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

*Yeah, but if left open, I will wake up tomorrow and see Bush and the Pope there. Thank you so very much, Jazzman! --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 22:50, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

== Some more names ==

Very nice list first of all, Second thing, i think a few names in this list have been missed, from Ibn Saud to King Abdullah, all dictators of Saudi Arabia should be added here.

Although i don't think so about King Faisal who was ruler from 1964 - 1975, as he was 'anti communist', :-

http://blog.nixonfoundation.org/2010/06/thirty-six-years-ago-rn-meets-king-faisal/

But every other name should be added. [[User:Regular|Regular]] 07:52, 6 June 2012 (EDT)

==Criteria==
In common use, "dictator" means "a leader I don't like." But for a list like this we need less subjective criteria. Robespierre was just one of twelve people on the Committee of Public Safety, so I don't see a basis to include him. Egypt and many other countries have a tradition of army involvement in politics. Sadat and Mubarak were dictators only if you take multi-party democracy as the norm. [[User:PeterKa|PeterKa]] 21:27, 14 January 2014 (EST)

== Add here Viktor Yanukovych ==

He had big wealth when he was president,he could appoint and remove from office ministres and regional heads,so we can call him absolute ruler,his house was given him illegally and he'd doing a lot of illegal operations for laundering money,so he governed outside the accepted rule of law,also he admitted that he led international troops and police units which fought against Euromaidan,so he also had kiling and tortured people,and all this if not to count lack of fair judicial system and forcible confiscation of business and a lot of another things which were did by people which came with him,so why he's not a dictator?