Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Voice (grammar)

2013-03-14T17:45:36Z

Onestone: link fix

In [[grammar]], '''voice''' refers to a form of a [[verb]] that indicates whether the subject of the verb is an actor, patient, or recipient.<ref>[http://www.sil.org/LINGUISTICS/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsVoice.htm What is voice?]</ref>

The ''[[active voice]]'' indicates that the subject is acting (e.g., "I ate the sandwich").

The ''[[passive voice]]'' indicates that the subject is being acted on (e.g., "The sandwich was eaten").<ref>[http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_vmood.html Verbs: Voice and Mood]</ref> Although it is often avoided for stylistic reasons, passive voice is not a grammatical error. In some types of [[writing]] passive voice is even preferred, as when the agent of an action is not wished to be specified (e.g. "mistakes were made"), but more often, writing is made more wordy, if not less clear, when the passive is used.<ref>http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/passive-voice</ref>

Some languages also have a ''[[middle voice]],'' which indicates that the subject acts on himself or for his own benefit or that the plural subjects act on one another.<ref>[http://www.sil.org/LINGUISTICS/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsMiddleVoice.htm What is middle voice?]</ref> Yet another voice in some languages is the ''antipassive voice,'' in which the direct object of an otherwise transitive verb is not expressed (e.g., "I ate," without specifying what the speaker ate).<ref>[http://wals.info/chapter/108 Antipassive Constructions]</ref> The antipassive voice is usually found in ergative languages and in accusative languages in which transitive verbs in the active voice agree with both subject and object. In accusative languages in which verbs do not agree with their objects, an antipassive-like construction can typically be formed simply by not mentioning the object.

==References==
<references/>
[[Category:Grammar]]

Adjective

2013-03-14T17:38:42Z

Onestone:

An '''adjective''' modifies a [[noun]] or a [[pronoun]] by describing, identifying, or quantifying them. An adjective may be [[predicate]] or attributive. The predicate adjective appears in the predicate of the sentence to modify the subject and in many languages is linked to the subject by a [[verb]] such as "to be or "to become": "The house is large." The attributive adjective appears in the same part of the sentence as the noun or pronoun that it modifies: "We saw the large house."

In the following examples, the italicized words are adjectives:

*"Receiving Jesus Christ as Savior is the most ''important'' act you or anyone else will ever do."
*"God becomes very ''angry'' when you use His name is vain."
*"Suicide is a ''mortal'' sin."

In the second example, "angry" is used as a predicate adjective. In the other examples, the adjectives are attributive adjectives.

In some languages, such as [[English]], an attributive adjective usually precedes the noun or the pronoun which it modifies. In other languages, such as [[Spanish]], attributive adjectives typically follow the nouns.

Another difference among languages is adjective-noun agreement. In English, adjectives do not agree with their nouns in [[number (grammar)|number]], [[grammatical case|case]] or [[grammar|gender]]. In [[Russian language|Russian]], by contrast, adjectives agree with their nouns in number, case, and gender, and there are separate grammatical endings for predicate and attributive adjectives.

Not all languages have a separate functional category of adjectives. In languages that do not, an adjective (e.g., "large") may function as a type of noun ("a large thing") or verb ("to be large"). In the latter case, the predicate adjective is a finite form of the verb ("The house large-is"), while the attributive adjective is a [[participle]] ("the large-being house").

An adjective can be modified by an [[adverb]], or by a phrase or clause functioning as an adverb.

==External Links==
*[http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/adjAdv.asp Adjectives and Adverbs] and [http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar_quiz/adjectives_and_adverbs_1.asp Adjectives and Adverbs Quiz]

[[Category:Grammar]]
[[Category:Parts of Speech]]

Basque language

2013-03-14T17:32:41Z

Onestone:

'''Basque''' is a [[language]] spoken by approximately 1 million people the [[Basque country]] in [[France]] and [[Spain]].
It is unusual in being a language isolate not related to the surrounding [[Indo-European language]]s.
In Basque, the [[subject and predicate|subject]] of an intransitive [[verb]] and the object of a transitive one are in the absolutive [[grammatical case|case]], while the subject of a transitive verb is marked with the ergative case. In [[Spanish]] the language is often called euskera.

[[Category:Languages]]
[[Category:France]]
[[Category:Spain]]
[[Category:Linguistics]]

Talk:Atheism

2013-03-14T17:09:25Z

Onestone: /* A problem with the definition of atheism stated */

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== 13 recent grim events for Darwinism and atheism ==

[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/08/13-grim-events-for-darwinism-that.html 13 recent grim events for evolutionary belief and atheism]
 
[[File:Death.png|right|100px]]
{{clear}}

== Reddit atheism ==
/r/atheism

/R/atheism has become an echo chamber for hate speech against Christians and Conservatives in the United States. Currently, it has become a place for the Secular Student Alliance to raise funds to ban God from the public square, particularly schools, and promote left wing politics. I need help constructing a page about /r/atheism. I have added it to /r/reddit, but because of its size I think it warrants its own page.

:create a [[Reddit atheism]] article if you want. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]]

== Ayn Rand was an atheist and is a major inspiration to the libertarian right and the Tea Party, why is she being ignored? ==

There have been atheist right-wingers like [[Ayn Rand]] who is an inspiration to the libertarian right such as the Tea Party. She rejected the concept of God and religion for being in her view totalitarian and for not placing freedom and responsibility in the hands of individuals. You cannot place Ayn Rand's atheism in the same category as communist totalitarian atheism for instance. People have different reasons for being atheists - people who have gone to a church where a corrupt pastor has led the church may become atheist because they were totally aggravated with the experience of religion as preached by the corrupt pastor. So why are atheism and all atheists being pigeonholed as being akin to communist totalitarians? Why is Ayn Rand's libertarian version of atheism ignored?--[[User:TheQuestioner|TheQuestioner]] 12:10, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::Is she being ignored? See [http://conservapedia.com/Atheism#Other_well_known_proponents_of_atheism this section] of the article. By the way, have you ever heard of the [[fallacy of exclusion]]? [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:14, 12 September 2012 (EDT)

== Biggest blow to hit world [[atheism]] ==

[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/08/worlds-biggest-atheist-population-about.html World's biggest atheist population about to see a big decline]

[[File:China location.png|200px|right]]
{{clear}}

== First Amendment ==

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Why are we persecuting Atheists at the same time violating the First Amendment to the Constitution? I'm an Atheistic Libertarian, by the way, but Conservapedia should be used to promote Conservatism, not to violate the rules our country was founded on.

It's funny how I can't get a single reply on one of the most popular articles on Conservapedia... Where's Andy Schlafly to criticize my grammar!? Where is he to answer my question!? One single, reasonable answer to my question to why your persecuting Atheism and violating the First Amendment.
:Apparently, you're not reading the news on a daily basis, as there is always some atheist clown making an attack on Christians, God, the Bible, and any institutions supporting it. There is no Christian persecution of atheists; it's the other way around. And we're going to highlight it in this website. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 19:57, 27 December 2012 (E
::Sure. Because the Christians on this site are totally not attacking atheism at all. I have been reading this site for a while, and I cannot believe how much inherent bias it has, and how it censors anyone who disagrees with them. This article in particular is absurd. What sort of "trustworthy" encyclopedia would put something like this. [[User:RaymondZ|RaymondZ]] 10:23, 22 February 2013 (EST)
:I'd say you misread the first amendment. With even a cursory glance at it, the only thing that can violate the first amendment is a law passed by Congress; no argument or discussion can violate it.[[User:williagz|williagz]] 9:29, 12 February 2013
::I exactly what way did I supposedly "misread" the First Amendment? Be specific. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 09:40, 12 February 2013 (EST)
:::Simply, the first amendment only sets out several kinds of laws that Congress cannot make - thus, only Congress can violate the first amendment. You say "Conservapedia should be used to promote Conservatism, not to violate the rules our country was founded on," but Conservapedia is not calling for Congress to make any laws about atheism. Thus, how can Conservapedia be trying to violate the first amendment? That was meant for the original poster, btw, who does not seem to be you, Karajou.[[User:williagz|williagz]] 16:04, 12 February 2013
::::Answer the question, williagz. You made an accusation. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 17:00, 12 February 2013 (EST)
:::::Like I said, it was an accusation at the original poster: MrSnowman. Not at you. I've explained his fault twice now.[[User:williagz|williagz]] 17:07, 12 February 2013 (EST)

Look, there's a lot of ongoing dispute between Faith and Christianity, but all your doing is favoring Christianity over Atheism. Just answer me this, Is it or is it not a violation of the First Amendment.

Just felt it's worth mentioning that many American laws favor religious people, like with marriage. The right to file jointly and tax benefits is well enough for me to consider the law favoring religious people in a significant way. I think that's what bothers the non-obnoxious atheists. There's most certainly a group who thinks others shouldn't be allowed to follow "ludicrous beliefs" or something but a religion or religious act shouldn't have benefits with the state in a nation that has religious freedom in its constitution. --[[User:MrSnowman|MrSnowman]] 11:22, 15 January 2013 (EST)
::Once the religion of evolutionism is pulled out of the public school, the religion of atheism will collapse like a pancake. And it is inevitable that this will occur.[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/08/darwinists-start-thinking-unthinkable.html] Michael Ruse, evolutionist science philosopher admitted, “Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.”[http://creation.com/15-questions]
:But atheists can and do get married and reap those same benefits. I don't see your point.[[User:williagz|williagz]] 19:57, 27 December 2012

::Biblical creation belief is rapidly on the rise in the world and beginning to have a discernible effect on Western nations and it is inevitable that Darwinism will be defeated and atheism will become an even smaller squeak in American society.[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbmAn3M8r0I] Even in secular France, evangelicalism is the fastest growing religion plus young earth creationism is growing in America according to the latest Gallup survey.[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/06/down-with-evolutionary-belief-down-with.html]

::By the way, why did the Founding Fathers of America install a paid chaplain shortly after the United States was founded? "When the Senate first convened in New York City on April 6, 1789, one of its first orders of business was to appoint a committee to recommend a candidate for chaplain. On April 25, the Senate elected the Right Reverend Samuel Provoost, Episcopal Bishop of New York, as its first chaplain".[http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Senate_Chaplain.htm] [[User:RobTurkel|RobTurkel]] 16:26, 15 January 2013 (EST)

::No discussion on this site amounts to new laws being made. Thus, no discussion on this site is a violation of the first amendment. [[User:williagz|williagz]] 16:10, 12 February 2013

== Please read all before you block me :) ==

OK, I want to start off by sdmitting that I am a liberal atheist. HOWEVER, before you block me hear me out (I AM NOT A TROLL). There are many conservatives who are embarrased by this site (I will provide links if you wish), and I really feel that if you could provide more rational arguments then you would bemore likely to win people over. I really feel that quite possibly this could be a great site, just as long as you were more honest about your bias, and there are several hypocrisies (if you want, I'll point them out Andy). I'm sure I'll get blocked for this, but I promise I'm not trolling, I'm being honest about my political views and am genuinely trying to help you. So ''please'' don't block me, I come in peace :)

==A problem with the definition of atheism stated==

if atheism is defined as the "Denial of the existence of God", it begs the question, which god? This definition seems to presume the existence of a monotheistic god, which not all theists believe in. For example, Hindus and to an extent, Muslims, believe in a different god than Christianity. So if "God" means the monotheistic Judeo-Christian god, then doesn't this definition mean that Hindus are atheists? This would also mean that pagans, Hindus, and those who believe in several gods are all atheists. I think this is a huge problem with the definition you've stated, so I think that should be revised. Just my two cents on the matter, I mean, it doesn't really make sense to call a Hindu or a pagan an atheist, does it? [[User:KatieKomori|KatieKomori]] 17:52, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
::The article demonstrates that the leading Western World philosophers have been influenced by Christianity and that is why the leading encyclopedias of philosophy use our definition. So the current definition is staying. Plus, both Christianity/Islam are monotheistic and both are Abrahamic religions although they believe something different about the history of God/Isaac. If you take the populations of Christainity/Islam that far outweighs the percentage of atheists or Hindus in the world. One thing for certain, we are not going to use a internet atheist dumbed down definition of atheism. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 18:32, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
::::So this is like a majority rules thing? I think that definition is far too limited in scope. I mean, does any of what is said in this article even apply to Hindus or pagans or Wiccans? Because based on the definition, this article is indeed meant to address them as well, and even addresses deists--people who don't believe in a specific god or perhaps don't even subscribe to the idea that there's just the on god. Also, this is just a side note, but why is there so much wanton contempt for atheism on this site? [[User:KatieKomori|KatieKomori]] 08:30, 14 March 2013 (EDT)
:::::I think it's fear. Fear of the very plausible possibility that we are all alone in the universe and that there is no afterlife. It takes courage to consider that possibility objectively, at face value. Hence the obsessive attention atheism receives on this website. By endlessly attacking atheism and atheists, many high profile users don't define themselves by what they are (Christians), but by what they are not. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 13:09, 14 March 2013 (EDT)

Turkish language

2013-03-13T16:36:33Z

Onestone: removed irrelevant remark

'''Turkish''' (''Turkce'') is an [[Altaic language]] of the Turkic subgroup. It is spoken by the entirety of the country of [[Turkey]] and by a number of Turks living around the world.

Until [[Kemal Ataturk]] became the first President of Turkey, Turkish was written in the Arabic alphabet. Ataturk changed the script to the [[Latin alphabet]], in an effort to increase literacy. However, Turkish still has a lot of [[Arabic language|Arabic]] loanwords.

==See Also==
*[[Altaic languages]]

[[Category: Altaic languages]]

Altaic languages

2013-03-13T16:30:41Z

Onestone:

The '''Altaic languages''' are a family of languages of [[Eurasia]]. The usually accepted members of this family include the [[Turkic language|Turkic]], [[Mongolian languages|Mongolian]], and [[Tungusic languages|Tungusic]] language families. Some linguists place [[Japanese language|Japanese]] and [[Korean language|Korean]] in this family because all the Altaic languages are agglutinative, meaning that they join morphemes together.

A number of linguists place the [[Uralic languages]] with the Altaic family to form the '''Ural-Altaic languages''' because the Uralic languages are aggultinative, just like the Altaic languages.

They comprise three subgroups:

* Mongol
* Manchu-Tungus
* Turkish languages

This group of languages is spoken in parts of the old [[Soviet Union]], [[Turkey]], [[Iran]], [[Afghanistan]], [[China]] and [[Mongolia]].

==Notable Altaic languages==
*[[Turkish language|Turkish]]
*[[Tatar language|Tatar]]
*[[Uzbek language|Uzbek]]
*[[Kazakh language|Kazakh]]
*[[Kirghiz language|Kirghiz]]
*[[Uyghur language|Uyghur]]
*[[Manchu language|Manchu]]
*[[Mongolian language|Mongolian]]
*[[Japanese language|Japanese]]
*[[Korean language|Korean]]

== Sources ==

The New American Desk Encyclopedia, Penguin Group, 1989.

[[Category:Altaic languages| ]]

Talk:Conservapedia proven right

2013-03-11T13:13:07Z

Onestone: /* Media bullying */

The two rows about gold seem repetitive. How about combining into only one row?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:23, 20 November 2011 (EST)
:::It is a lot of information plus Conservapedia mentioned gold and precious metals a lot. But at the same time reportedly positively about having a broad commodity strategy if possible. I think it would make a very long single entry. I will look at it though. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 15:18, 20 November 2011 (EST)
::::::I will combine them. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]]

== Neutrinos and the speed of light ==

The article claims that Conservapedia's prediction about the theory of General Relativity being wrong was proven by Neutrinos travelling faster that the speed of light. It has recently been found that this is in fact false, the accuracy of the measurements was affected by a loose fibre optic cable <ref>http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2012/02/official-word-on-superluminal-ne.html?ref=hp</ref>. Shall I remove this claim?

:The issue remains unresolved, rather than the claim by the scientists having been proven false. Feel free to edit accordingly.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:54, 29 February 2012 (EST)

::Thanks for the help Andy. Sorry, I'm new so I thought I would ask. Either way, the statement is invalid as there is reasonable concern that the results are inaccurate. I will delete it for now as it will save face for Conservapedia. But if the anomaly is still present (as some physicists believe it will be), then we can alwpays re-insert it.--[[User:JeremyK|JeremyK]] 11:23, 29 February 2012 (EST)

== Cristie and Palin ==

If Conservapedia thought those two weren't likely nominees why is [[Presidential Election 2012|Palin still listed as one]] and [http://conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Presidential_Election_2012&diff=938676&oldid=937791 Christie was only removed as a potential nominee only two days ago]?

:The way that mathematical probabilities work, nobody, including Palin, has an absolute zero probability of being nominated. An absolute zero probability for an uncertainty is, by definition, impossible.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:05, 22 November 2011 (EST)

== Newt Gingrich ==

*Conservapedia statement: "Newt Gingrich is the most likely to win the Republican nomination for President"
*Ranking of Potential Republican Candidates by Likelihood of Winning Nomination as per the linked article right now: #1 - Mitt Romney
So Conservapedia is proven right for a prediction it's not making anymore? Oh, let me guess: If Mitt Romney wins the nomination after all, you will again claim that Conservapedia is proven right by linking to the first version where he happened to be at the top?

Make up your mind - either actually promote Newt as your top choice or strike this out. It's not much of a prediction when you're basically playing "Heads, I win! Tails, you lose!" with the wiki revision system. ;) --[[User:Sid 3050|Sid 3050]] 17:41, 22 November 2011 (EST)
:I see that the "most likely" list at least reflects this "prediction" again. --[[User:Sid 3050|Sid 3050]] 17:12, 27 November 2011 (EST)

== Britain, atheism and the World Cup ==

*Conservapedia statement: "Atheistic Britain would embarrass itself in the World Cup"
*Liberal claptrap in response: "Liberal denial shouts down any observation of the correlation between atheism and underachievement"
*Result: "'England's performance at South Africa 2010 was officially their worst at a World Cup finals, according to Fifa.'"
Uh... your logic isn't sound. You roughly guessed a soccer result correctly, but that doesn't prove anything about a supposed correlation between atheism and underachievement.

Let's look at the actual statistics and results:
*Both England and the religious USA dropped out in the Top 16 round.
*The Top 3 spots of the World Cup went to Spain, the Netherlands and Germany (in that order).
*[http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html This] site lists somewhat recent atheism/agnostic/nonbeliever rates per country:
**Spain: 15 - 24%
**Netherlands: 39 - 44%
**Germany: 41 - 49%
**Britain (as a yardstick for "atheistic country"): 31 - 44%
**USA (as a yardstick for a religious country): 3 - 9%
What was that? Correlation between atheism and underachieving? Citing the World Cup 2010 as an example? Not quite. --[[User:Sid 3050|Sid 3050]] 18:08, 22 November 2011 (EST)

:Obviously nobody said atheism was the ''only'' factor. Of course there are other factors in fielding a successul soccer team, such as the level of interest in the sport.

:Looking at British soccer performance over time isolates the effect of atheism. As atheism has grown in Britain, it's ability to compete in the World Cup has fallen to pathetically weak levels. Atheism causes underachievement.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:09, 22 November 2011 (EST)
::England's past World Cup ratings:
::*1950: '''8th'''
::*1954: '''6th'''
::*1958: 11th
::*1962: '''8th'''
::*1966: 1st
::*1970: '''8th'''
::*1974: not qualified
::*1978: not qualified
::*1982: '''6th'''
::*1986: '''8th'''
::*1990: '''4th'''
::*1994: not qualified
::*1998: 9th
::*2002: '''6th'''
::*2006: '''7th'''
::*2010: 13th
::Whenever England qualified for a World Cup, it ended up in the Top 16. And I highlighted (in bold) the times in which England made it at least into the quarterfinals. Fallen to pathetically weak levels? During the last three World Cups, England twice had one of the best eight teams on the planet. Or are you claiming that there was a sudden atheism spike between 2006 and 2010?
::Also, the FIFA World Rankings currently rank England as #7, and the [http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtools/compareteams.html#g=m&t1=ENG&t2=ENG&t3=ENG&t4=ENG&dRange=4&fm=8&fy=1993&tm=11&ty=2011 trend there] isn't exactly indicating growing failure.
::So let's do this right. What are your sources for the claim that "atheism has grown in Britain"? How much during what time period? And then we can see how that compares to the the World Cup and the World Ranking.
::And you claim that atheism causes underachievement, but completely fail to address how the atheism in other countries somehow isn't causing underachievement there. You can't make a claim and then only consider a single country with "high" levels of atheism. How do you explain that the best three teams during the last World Cup have high atheism rates? Why aren't highly religious countries doing better?
::Sorry, but I don't see this going anywhere. You considered only a single data point (the performance of a single team during a single World Cup) to make a claim that doesn't seem to fit the moment you expand the scope at all. You called a single team's performance during a single event correctly, but that doesn't make your reasoning right. --[[User:Sid 3050|Sid 3050]] 20:32, 22 November 2011 (EST)

== Earthquakes ==

I'm surprised that this is ''still'' doing its rounds: It's wrong.

I don't even have to make a longwinded speech; just look at [[Talk:Main Page/Archive index/102#Severe_earthquakes_double_every_40_years.3F|this]] discussion and also at [[Talk:Counterexamples to an Old Earth#Major_earthquakes_are_doubling_every_40_years.3F|this]] one. --[[User:Sid 3050|Sid 3050]] 18:13, 22 November 2011 (EST)

== Jon Stewart Curse ==
Since the "prediction" was made, Stewart hasn't actually been in any movies. Hosting the Academy Awards was not movie acting. If you want to count "has appeared in front of a camera" as movie acting, then The Daily Show also counts, and it does [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1394561/The-force-Jon-Stewart-Daily-Shows-ratings-higher-FOX-News.html very] well. In addition, this prediction was originally made by somebody who was banned as a vandal. --[[User:Sid 3050|Sid 3050]] 17:12, 27 November 2011 (EST)

==What is the point of this article ?==
It just look like boasting. And I shall remind you that ''"As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil."'' - James 4:16 --[[User:PhilipN|PhilipN]] 23:10, 8 February 2012 (EST)

:''Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick, and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.'' - Matthew 5:15. Your move!--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:45, 29 February 2012 (EST)
::Admittedly, the title is a bit on the nose. I'm inclined to change it to "Conservapedia prescience" or "Presience of conservative insight." Or simply "Conservative Insight." [[User:DouglasA|DouglasA]] 12:38, 29 February 2012 (EST)

::(edit conflict) Well put, CPalmer. And if "accountability" had been a term known to the [[King James Version]] translators, then it would be in the English translations of the Bible too. It's very important to circle back and check what was right and what was wrong.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:40, 29 February 2012 (EST)

:::Douglas, I'm [[Essay:Quantifying Openmindedness|open-minded about this]], but don't think the alternative titles would be an improvement.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:41, 29 February 2012 (EST)

== Gay penguin ==

Isn't it possible (and indeed more likely) that the penguin was never gay in the first place? I can't really picture one penguin (peacefully or otherwise) convincing another penguin to change from his ways. There are no penguin therapy support groups. Either way, Conservapedia is right about the gay animal myth (either he's an ex-homosexual or he never was one in the first place). But I do think that possibility is worth mentioning. I'm not sure how to word it though. [[User:Gregkochuconn|Gregkochuconn]] 22:44, 9 February 2012 (EST)
:::I think the idea of a homosexual animal is wrongheaded and that the homosexual animal notion is a myth. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:12, 29 March 2012 (EDT)

== References ==

<references/>

== Stalking Horse ==

Don't we need some evidence of intent before deciding that Santorum was a stalking horse for Romney? Was Nader a stalking horse for Bush in 2000? He certainly did more to hurt Gore than Santorum did to hurt Gingrich --[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 20:57, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

:I have an [[open mind]] about whether Santorum was a [[stalking horse]] for Romney. But what other plausible explanation is there for the abrupt pull-out by Santorum at this time, stranding so many [[conservatives]] who had rallied behind him?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:42, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
::Winning less than half as many delegates as Romney. A sick kid at home. Nothing near the financial resources that Romney has. Poll leads in his home state that weren't incredibly solid. [[User:DVMRoberts|DVMRoberts]] 22:03, 10 April 2012 (EDT)
:::Just speculating, but I'd say the potential loss in Pennsylvania had to play a big part in his timing. It's been clear for a while now that he didn't really have much of a chance of turning things around this time out, but the longer he could stay competitive, the more influence he'd have going forward. A loss in his home state would have cost him a lot of credibility he's gained these last few months. It's also not implausible that Romney made some pseudo-promises behind the scenes that now allow him to cancel what was going to be a huge ad buy in Pennsylvania. At any rate, if you/we/Conservapedia still have an open mind about Santorum's status as a stalking horse, is it really an appropriate time to count this as an example of [[Conservapedia proven right]]?[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 00:40, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
:::: Yeah, it seems silly to proclaim [[Conservapedia proven right]] about something that isn't even clear is true yet. And if Conservapedia did indeed think Santorum was just a stalking horse for Romney, why has it portrayed Santorum as the conservative alternative to Romney for the past few months? Why was this prediction from two years ago not brought up weeks ago? --[[User:BradleyS|BradleyS]] 01:56, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
:::::Although this will unfortunately make me sound like a jerk, this really isn't the place for those questions. Can we focus on trying to improve this particular article? I do appreciate the pro not-yet-a-stalking-horse sentiment though. --[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 02:09, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
:::::: I think those questions are relevant. Conservapedia is claiming have been proven right about X when it doesn't appear to have actually believed in X and X hasn't been shown to be true. That's about as far away as 'proven right' as you can be. Hence an improvement of this article would be to remove the entry. --[[User:BradleyS|BradleyS]] 12:01, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
:::::::You're right. Sorry about that and carry on. I guess I was more tired than I thought last night. --[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 12:50, 11 April 2012 (EDT)

::::::::It was asked "why has it portrayed Santorum as the conservative alternative to Romney for the past few months?" - Answer: because, obviously, voters '''''perceived''''' "Santorum as the [[conservative]] alternative to Romney." The strength of the votes for that conservative alternative was significant.

::::::::What Santorum's own intentions have been are, of course, another matter. The sbrupt timing of his pull-out seemed to have been coordinated with the Romney campaign, or at least to help him. Gingrich didn't pull out.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:32, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
:::::::::Exactly. I completely agree. This strongly hints that Santorum might not be as conservative as Romney really is (perhaps the plan was something like this; Romney would appeal to moderates while Santorum distracted the easily amused Liberals as Romney gained support. Now with his "shield" down Liberals have spent all their ammo on Santorum so Romney can advance as the real, true Conservative? When you think about it it's brilliant; the Republicans appear to compromise with the more simpleminded voters when in reality the Conservative train steams ahead with more power than ever! [[User:Insel|Insel]] 00:01, 19 April 2012 (EDT)

== Another case of selective reading.... ==

That's bordering the ridiculous: Aschlafly, have you read your source beyond the headline? Surely you want to differ between man-made quakes and natural ones! And a quote from the article: "''America's Natural Gas Alliance, which represents major energy companies involved in natural gas fracking, said it was difficult to conclude anything based on an unpublished abstract. ''" So perhaps you want to wait for the scientific article until you declare triumph - or will this be another article you quote, but don't read? [[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 14:05, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

:You seem to be focusing on the [[hearsay]] in the article, which of course would be [[inadmissible]] in court for its lack of reliability. The article is cite here for its admissible factual content, which is that large earthquakes are increasing.

:Please see [[hearsay society]] for an enlightening discussion of the key distinction.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:13, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

::I think AugustO's point is that although Conservapedia is technically correct in saying the number of earthquakes is increasing, there is a very real possibility that the increase is due to recent human activity. If this is the case, the increase in earthquakes is not a logical counterexample to an old Earth. Even though the increase in earthquakes has not been conclusively linked to fracking, ignoring this possibility and claiming the counterexample to be definitively true is an example of [[deliberate ignorance]] or [[closed-mindedness]]. --[[User:Toadaron|AaronT]] 15:16, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

:::Previously there was denial that earthquakes are increasing. Conservapedia was correct about that, and there's no denying that now, right? As to why, that's a separate issue, but the claim that mankind is causing this is implausible.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:21, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

::::To answer your question, yes, you are correct. Whether this item belongs in this article and whether it belongs in [[Counterexamples to an Old Earth]] are two seperate issues. --[[User:Toadaron|AaronT]] 15:31, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

:::::Aschlafly would be correct if his claim were that ''the number of magnitude 3 and greater earthquakes increases dramatically in an area that includes Arkansas, Colorado, Oklahoma, New Mexico and Texas''.
:::::But his claim is ''Large earthquakes are increasing in frequency.'' That's quite a difference!
:::::And calling ''the claim that mankind is causing this'' [...] ''implausible'' seems to be a sign of severe closed-mindedness! [[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 16:17, 22 April 2012 (EDT)

== Predicted Increase in Premature Graying ==

Mr. Schlafly, I know from the [[Andy Schlafly|article about you]] that you have a background in law and engineering, two fields that highly value logic, evidence, and truth. So you must understand that one nonspecific example of one case of premature graying at one point in time - or even the few example given in the [[Counterexample to an Old Earth]] page - does not nearly offer rigorous proof that premature graying is increasing. (Not to mention the almost nonexistent relationship between premature graying and the age of the Earth.) --[[User:Randall7|Randall7]] 23:19, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

:The example is specific, and one case can prove a theory. The solitary example of [[Christ]] rising from the dead does prove several theories in [[Christianity]].

:With young people having gray hair with increasing frequency, this does suggest that the slope of man's developmental path is a much sharper incline (downward) than Old Earth believers claim.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:46, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

::Of course you are correct that there are some theories that can be proven true with a single example. But this is certainly not one of them. To prove your claim is true, you need to present a substantial amount of data from the past as well as from the present. At the risk of being called part of the [[Hearsay society]], I am going to suggest you present some credible references. (Also, I called the example on this page nonspecific because the "Result" column does not give the person's name or a reference.) --[[User:Randall7|Randall7]] 00:25, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

:::Good point about the need for specificity. The link is on the front page but this entry should identify the person. I've corrected that.

:::Your request for references is unpersuasive, as evidence is abundant in daily life. Would anyone ask [[Jesus]] for a reference after telling the parable of the [[Prodigal Son]]?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:31, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

::::I appreciate your point - I doubt anyone asked Jesus for references during his numerous speeches/sermons. But even though it may be obvious to you that the age of onset of gray hair is rapidly decreasing, it may not be obvious to many readers of Conservapedia, so providing substantial evidence would be useful to these readers. --[[User:Randall7|Randall7]] 00:41, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
::::::No, but you're not Jesus. You need to provide citations to factual claims when asked. You should do it before being asked really. I know you know this. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 10:02, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
And now we see the "Hearsay Society" defense (...or, as I call it, the "Go Away, You Bother Me" defense) in action. Look Randall, look Nate: I've been coming to this website since 2007. Here's how it works. As stated above, one of the people who never have to provide evidence for their claims is Jesus Christ Himself. The other is Andy Schlafly. People are going gray earlier. Just roll with it, 'cause you ain't gonna get any more than "It's self-evident" or "One case proves the theory." Just kick back and enjoy the fun. [[User:Sylvain|Sylvain]] 10:05, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
:Nonsense. Mr. Schlafly uses citations all the time. He just needs to cite it his point. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 10:11, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
::Mr. Schlafly supported a user who created a template expressly designed to do away with the need for citations. Thus the invention of the notion of the "Hearsay Society." Mr. Schlafly just now on this very page is arguing that, like Jesus Christ, his assertions on this matter are obvious and require no corroborating data. Mr. Schlafly re-wrote the Bible when that particular "data-set," if you would, did not correspond to his own beliefs, and has used articles about events that happened billions of years ago in order to advance the cause of a young creation. Mr. Schlafly has what one might call an interesting approach to the idea of how evidence might support an argument. [[User:Sylvain|Sylvain]] 10:16, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

:::The [[Hearsay Society]] is the ultimate haven for anyone who denies [[logic]] and, in this case, the increasingly premature graying apparent all around in daily life. [[Pharisees]] used the same escape hatch to avoid accepting the compelling parables and indisputable reasoning.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:19, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
::::Not it's not apparent at all because none of us is 6000 years old, assuming YEC is why you're saying this it seems to me that arguing without citing authority where necessary is the ultimate escape hatch for anyone who denies logic because arguments are built on supported factual premises. We have no idea how grey people were at age 30 before the invention of photography unless you've got some citations. And you're still not Jesus. This grey hair stuff is not remotely similar to Jesus's sayings and you know it. You're also getting hearsay wrong. It has nothing to do with citing authority. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 10:38, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
ASchlafly, most people who are asked for a bit of evidence to back up a controversial claim don't retreat to constructing societal models out of whole cloth and then charging their interlocutors with being members of that made-up society. Nor do they compare their own arguments to those of the Lord. [[User:Sylvain|Sylvain]] 10:56, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
:::::Wait a minute here Mr. Schlafly - are you suggesting I'm part of this "hearsay society" and that by asking you for a citation to show that people are prematurely graying I'm "continuing the don't-think-for-yourself tradition started by the Pharisees"? [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 12:33, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
:::::::That's exactly what he's doing. I'm curious as to why you would find this surprising. [[User:Sylvain|Sylvain]] 12:57, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
:Jesus was infalible. You, Aschlafly, are not. He did not need to provide citations but unless you are now comparing yourself to Jesus you, Aschlafly as a falible human, do. [[User:Davidspencer|Davidspencer]] 11:56, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
:Also - but please correct me if I'm wrong - Jesus did not tell the Parable of the Prodigal Son as a true story, but, well, as a parable. --[[User:FrederickT3|FrederickT3]] 12:59, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

::Jesus told the [[parable]] as a true story about the good side of human nature. It was not merely fiction. Notice how no one asked Him to provide a citation that human nature was really like this. Instead, listeners of the [[Prodigal Son]] then and now think for themselves, and recognize its truth without resorting to a demand for [[hearsay]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:07, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
:::So you feel yourself to be on a level with Jesus? You feel that because he, the infaliable Son of God, was not asked for a citation then you should not be? Less than 300 years ago you would have been burnt at the stake for making such a claim. You should really reconsider your hubris, and then ask for forgivness for your pride. And then provide a citation - or withdraw your claim. [[User:Davidspencer|Davidspencer]] 13:31, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
::::But ASchlafly, you yourself said that [[parable| a parable is "a fictional narrative."]] Is it a true story or fiction? It cannot be both. [[User:Sylvain|Sylvain]] 13:34, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

:::::Sylvain, do you think the correct answer to a word problem in math is "merely fiction"? I don't think so.

:::::David, I don't think Christians burned anyone at the stake for making observations about premature graying, without citation.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:58, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
For those of you who argue that Andy Schlafly is not infalible and needs to supply sources, keep in mind that by your own argument you need to supply sources that Andy is not infalible if you wish to state it. I doubt you can. [[User:JacobJ|JacobJ]] 14:16, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
:::::::Edit Conflict: No, but they very well might have burned someone who claimed that his pronouncements were as clear and obvious as those of the Lord. And I'm not sure you can equate word problems with empirical statements about the observable world. I could write a word problem about a train taking 20 minutes to go from Baltimore to Chicago, and for the sake of the word problem, that's fine. It's not the same as saying "a train take 20 minutes to go from Baltimore to Chicago, and only a Pharisee would question my word," which is essentially what you are doing here. [[User:Sylvain|Sylvain]]

::::::::So is the correct answer to a word problem "merely fiction," or not? And, by the way, Christians did not burn people at the stake as much as [[public schools]] might lead people to believe. Opponents of Christianity have been far more violent throughout history.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:25, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
Let's leave the questions of public schools and burning at the stake aside for the purposes of this discussion. The issue here is whether or not a constructed word problem is the same as an empirical claim about the world. I could construct a word problem where the correct answer is that the train took 20 minutes to get from Baltimore to Chicago. That says nothing about an actual train. You are making a claim about grey hair and when asked for evidence, your position seems to be "Jesus didn't need to provide evidence for his parables, and neither do I for this claim." This implies, to the casual observer, that you think that your claims have the same authority as those of the Lord. Do you not see how the reader might raise his eyebrows at such a position? [[User:Sylvain|Sylvain]] 14:31, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

:OK, suppose it wasn't Jesus who told the [[Prodigal Son]], but someone else. Would anyone ask for references to confirm how the story illustrates a truth about life?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:28, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

::Someone might ask not for references to confirm that the story tells a truth about life, but for references that the events mentioned in the story actually happened. However, whether or not the story happened or not doesn't change the lesson implied in the story. I get that. But you're not simply telling a story to impart a larger lesson. You are making an empirical claim about the world, having to do with the occurrence of gray hairs. The only evidence you seem to give is "Just like Jesus, I don't need any proof." But Jesus wasn't talking about an actual son and an actual father in the parable--he was telling a story. He could have made it all up in order to illustrate the lesson; that doesn't make the lesson any less valid. Story-telling is not making an empirical claim. Surely you can see the difference. Either 1. You do not understand the difference between metaphor and observable reality, or 2. You believe that your word is as unquestionable as that of Jesus Christ Himself. [[User:Sylvain|Sylvain]] 15:52, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

===A related issue===
A man making a claim with an appeal to Scripture is one thing. A man making a claim with an appeal to Scripture who led a project to re-write the Bible because parts of it did not conform to his political ideology is quite another. Then the claims of the man become self-fulfilling. Step 1: "Here is a claim about the world." Step 2: "For verification of this claim, please consult the version of the Bible that I wrote that reinforces the vision of the world that I am claiming in Step 1." Step 3: "If you have a problem with that, remember that Jesus--at least the version of him that I describe in my Bible--said things without reference to anything, and I can too. Because, like the claims of Jesus (the one in the Bible I rewrote), my claims are obvious." Does that not strike you as problematic? [[User:Sylvain|Sylvain]] 16:01, 29 April 2012 (EDT)

:The [[Conservative Bible Project]] has always been dedicated to translating the original meaning of the [[Bible]] more precisely, free of [[liberal bias]] that creeps into other translations.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:58, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
::Which explains why so many noted conservative theologians have given the rewritten Bible that you produced high praises, and why so many conservative churches and denominations are using it instead of those other, more liberal versions, I guess. [[User:Sylvain|Sylvain]] 00:07, 30 April 2012 (EDT)

:::I think the first statement would amount to more reliance on [[hearsay]] concerning what "conservative" theologians supposedly said. And, by the way, the [[Conservative Bible Project]] was never a "rewritten Bible."--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:51, 30 April 2012 (EDT)

{{nohearsay}}
What is this?
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! style="border:1px solid lightgray;margin:+.1em;text-align:center;padding:+.2em" | [[user:Brenden|Brenden]].
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*[[Special:Contributions/Brenden|Contribs]]
*[[user talk:Brenden|talk]]
*[[Special:Log&user=Brenden|log]]
|} 15:50, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
:It's a template that can be used to answer or pre-empt calls for references on pages where they aren't needed. There's also <nowiki>{{nohearsaysection}}</nowiki> for use on specific sections of pages.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:21, 30 April 2012 (EDT)

Andy, let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that there is a scientist, a well-respected man and a well-known conservative (so no liberal bias involved), who has spent his career investigating premature greying in society, collecting data on the current incidence of premature greying and studying historic records on premature greying. Let us further assume - purely hypothetically - that this man has found that premature greying has not increased since, say, the time of Jesus up to now. If we don't know this man personally, should we take his results seriously or should we dismiss them and all reference to them as hearsay? What if we know him personally, maybe even as a close friend, and know him to be an honest, conservative man? Should we trust him and take his results seriously, even if they contradict what we believe to be true? At what point does information obtained from someone else stop being hearsay? You will surely say that he will not find contradicting results, but my question is not about premature greying (incidentally, I'm in my mid-40s and have been completely grey for at least ten years now). What I really want to understand is the concept of hearsay, its limits and the connection to openmindedness. --[[User:FrederickT3|FrederickT3]] 11:36, 30 April 2012 (EDT)
::I'm sorry, I meant what's the point of this. References aren't bad, they prevent people from inventing their own facts.[[User:Brenden|brenden]] 00:21, 1 May 2012 (EDT)

:::When a demand for references is used to shout down logic or obvious truths available to everyone, then that is bad. When references are used to repeat hearsay contained in the references, then that is also bad. Silly demands for references or authority were used to interfere with the logic and obvious truths in the [[Gospels]], which of course contain no references.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:44, 1 May 2012 (EDT)
'::good point. However, when used correctly, references help people navigate the facts and content

::::I agree, but too often people demand references as a way of sidestepping clear logic or obvious truths, while accepting worthless references in other situations if the references reinforce their views.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 01:04, 1 May 2012 (EDT)
:::::So, I understand that it some situations, references just aren't readily available. Maybe because an insight is either so obvious that no one's bothered to discuss it or so novel that no one's thought to discuss it. But in other situations, they are available. Lots of smart people have studied lots of obscure things. In situations where references are available, is it appropriate to use them? If I, for example, found a study investigating the age at which people go grey, would that be worth considering? --[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 03:07, 1 May 2012 (EDT)
::::::Yes, of course references are sometimes - often - wholly appropriate and very useful. They are used extensively on Conservapedia. But Wikipedia has gone beyond that and suffers from a kind of reference-mania - dismissing ''any'' statement that has no reference, and conversely often allowing any old garbage on the grounds that it does have a (questionable) citation.
:::::: See the comics [http://xkcd.com/978/ here] and [http://xkcd.com/906/ here] for two humorous commentaries on the problems caused by Wikipedia's policies (though note that other comics on that site may not be so educational - in fact the second link should come with a mild warning).--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 04:18, 1 May 2012 (EDT)
:::::::I understand, I think, your criticism of how references are used elsewhere. I'm more interested in trying to understand how you/Andy/Conservapedia want them to be used here. How do I know when it is appropriate to ask for a reference? If I ask for one and am told it is not necessary, by what criteria will we (or even better, objective others) determine who is correct? If I have a reference on some topic, how will I know whether or not it is appropriate to include in an article? --[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 17:31, 1 May 2012 (EDT)

== Opportunities for improvement ==

I recently stumbled upon this article after a link to it was featured on the main page. After reviewing the article and it's subsequent talk page discussion, I believe I have found a few areas that could stand some attention.

# '''Ambiguousness of predictions''' - Many of the predictions are vague and offer little in the way of an objectively measurable outcome. To be effective, predictions should be as specific as possible, with indisputable results.
# '''Links to predictions''' - Very few of the list items reference the article (and exact edit) on Conservapedia where the actual prediction was made. Critics of the project could easily claim that predictions were being made after-the-fact once the final outcome was known. Citing the specific edit where the prediction was made would preemptively silence such criticism.
# '''"Liberal claptrap" responses''' - Like the predictions themselves, only a minuscule amount of the alleged liberal uproar is actually documented.
# '''The results''' - Surprisingly many of the results do not link to any external source, where the reader can review the material and reach their own conclusion about the accuracy of the prediction.

--[[User:DonnyC|DonnyC]] 15:06, 10 January 2013 (EST)

:You're welcome to add more references, but the predictions and outcomes are so clear and well-known that even more references are hardly necessary.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:10, 15 January 2013 (EST)

== Item on Armstrong is somewhat ridiculous ==

Lance Armstrong was stripped from his titles in August 2012, so adding him in September 2012 to the list of overrated sport-starts doesn't take a visionary... --[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 11:46, 15 January 2013 (EST)

:May seem obvious now, but as you can see from the reference there was objection in September 2012 to including him in the [[Overrated Sports Stars]] entry.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:02, 15 January 2013 (EST)
::I remember this well, as I reinserted the entry. So there were two editors ([[User:Wonders]] and [[User:AugustO]]) who thought that he was overrated, and other Conservapedians disagreed: you have enough convenient predictions to cover any outcome.... --[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 13:58, 15 January 2013 (EST)

:::No, because the deniers were not "Conservapedians" in many meaningful sense. Conservapedians said he was overrated, and non-Conservapedians disagreed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:08, 15 January 2013 (EST)

*the article on [[Lance Armstrong]] was created in '''Sep 2007'''. The first reference to drug abuse was inserted in '''Jan 2012'''
*In '''Sep 2007''' wikipedia's [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lance_Armstrong&oldid=156195303#Allegations_of_drug_use article on Armstrong] already had a long section named '''Allegations of drug use'''
So even if you claim that Conservapedia was proven right, it came quite late to the party... --[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 14:34, 15 January 2013 (EST)
::::"Predicting" that Armstrong is overrated in September is a bit like "predicting" that Obama would win the election ... on the 7th of November. --[[User:DamianJohn|DamianJohn]] 15:12, 15 January 2013 (EST)

:::::[[Liberal denial]] about Armstrong continued well past September. There are probably atheist websites today that still list him as being great.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:47, 15 January 2013 (EST)

:::::''[[Liberal denial]] about Armstrong continued well past September.'' Evidence?
:::::''There are probably atheist websites today that still list him as being great.'' Link?
:::::There are those thinks called ''facts''... --[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 17:57, 15 January 2013 (EST)

::::::Liberal companies including a beer company and Nike continued to endorse Armstrong for months after September. Now, do you need a citation for that too???--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:59, 15 January 2013 (EST)

:::::::Just citations which show that [[Anheuser Bush]] and [[Nike]] are liberal companies... --[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 19:20, 15 January 2013 (EST)

::::::::Oh please ... is it really necessary to provide a citation that Nike and a beer company are liberal???--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:30, 15 January 2013 (EST)

:::::::::Yes. In my country, beer companies belong to the most conservative companies imaginable. And [[Anheuser Bush]] doesn't strike me as a kind of micro-brewery.
:::::::::--[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 19:32, 15 January 2013 (EST)
::::::::::Both Nike and Budd dropped him, presumably after looking in detail at their legal options. Besides I cannot imagine how you would even begin to argue that Nike is a "liberal" company - they are one of the biggest exploiters of cheap labour in the world; they are famous for having extremely lax safety standards for employees, and being in favour of countries that reduce them as much as possible. I'm not familiar with the beer company, but given their size I doubt they would meet any sensible definition of liberal. As for "I'm sure there are atheist websites who endorse him still"; that is a meaningless statement unless you actually cite one. --[[User:DamianJohn|DamianJohn]] 21:07, 15 January 2013 (EST)
::::::::It's difficult for me to imagine any corporation as "liberal." When the primary motivator is profit, groups and individuals tend to go conservative. --[[User:CamilleT|CamilleT]] 00:41, 16 January 2013 (EST)

:::::::::Big corporations have never been friendly to the conservative movement. Except for the union issue, big corporations tend to support liberals.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:54, 16 January 2013 (EST)
::::::::::I think the opposite is the case (take, for example, the membership of ALEC). [[User:GregG|GregG]] 01:14, 16 January 2013 (EST)
:::::::::::(EC)And tax policy, and health and safety, and welfare, and discrimination laws, and minimum wages, and healthcare, and political finance reform and etc etc ad nauseum. --[[User:DamianJohn|DamianJohn]] 01:18, 16 January 2013 (EST)
Rupert Murdock a liberal? [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 00:58, 16 January 2013 (EST)

: Rupert Murdoch is whatever will further his business interests. He has at various times supported both sides of politics when doing so helps his various business interests. [[User:Dvergne|Dvergne]] 01:13, 16 January 2013 (EST)

:: ''The Australian, "The Times of London", "The Wall Street Journal"'', those rubbish tabloids in Britain. New York and in the various state capitals in Australia - "liberal" papers, Dvergne? [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 01:38, 16 January 2013 (EST)

This is like shooting fish in a barrel guys - just follow the money. In 2012, Anheuser Busch donated [https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00034488 55% of its PAC money to Republicans, 45% to Democrats]. Since 2003, it has donated [http://www.followthemoney.org/database/topcontributor.phtml?u=207 45% of its money to Republicans, and 38% to Democrats]. In 2012, Nike donated [http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00142786 63% to Republicans, 37% to Democrats]. Since 2004, Nike has given [http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00142786 43% to Republicans, 40% to Democrats]. Although neither are 'overwhelmingly GOP', like, for example, [http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00236489 Koch Industries] (98% Republican, 2% Democrat), if the Nike and Anheuser Busch numbers were election results, they would be called a "landslide" for Republicans. The vast majority of corporations will be found to be like this - it's in their interest to support less regulation, lower business taxes, etc, and they almost all line up to support conservatives. [[User:Wonders|Wonders]] 12:27, 18 January 2013 (EST)

:The donations by corporations to Republicans are typically to '''''liberal''''' Republicans, some of whom are more liberal than many Democrats.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:30, 18 January 2013 (EST)
::But Anheuser-Busch is a member of ALEC, at least according to [http://www.commoncause.org/atf/cf/%7BFB3C17E2-CDD1-4DF6-92BE-BD4429893665%7D/cied_35-day_mailing_2011_annual_meeting%20New%20Orleans.pdf this source]. I don't think they would belong to ALEC if they were liberal. [[User:GregG|GregG]] 20:13, 18 January 2013 (EST)
:::Not to mention that Anheuser-Busch donated to Andy's favorite candidate [[Todd Akin]]. --[[User:DonnyC|DonnyC]] 20:32, 18 January 2013 (EST)

== Relay ==

I read [http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/02/130208-super-bowl-blackout-cause/ the National Geographic article], and it appears that the argument is whether the relay mechanically failed or whether it was improperly set. Nothing suggests that relay or its use was not at fault, and certainly nothing suggests that energy rationing of any sort contributed to the outage. Please fix this. Thanks, [[User:GregG|GregG]] 21:25, 9 February 2013 (EST)

:A low setting on a relay (or fuse) would result from guidelines based on rationing energy.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:05, 9 February 2013 (EST)
::There are several other, more plausible reasons. It could have been to prevent larger-scale blackouts due to interruption in the power coming into the stadium. It could have been to reduce the risk of fire (the same kind of reason why circuit breakers in your home trip). Or, the setting may have been too low simply due to human error. The details should be sorted out soon through investigation. [[User:GregG|GregG]] 22:31, 9 February 2013 (EST)

== Media bullying ==

A simple google search shows that the term "media bullying" was already in use before Conservapedia purportedly coined it. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 09:48, 10 March 2013 (EDT)

:Were prior uses elsewhere of the term "[[media bullying]]" in the same rich meaning as the usage here?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:24, 10 March 2013 (EDT)
::You claim (and literally wrote) that Conservapedia coined the ''term''. However, judging from your reply, what you probably intended to write was that Conservapedia merely coined the highly particular ''usage'' of the term. That is an essential difference. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 09:13, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Conservapedia proven right

2013-03-10T13:48:47Z

Onestone: /* Media bullying */ new section

Hell

2013-03-06T18:06:33Z

Onestone: Hölle is a cognate, not the origin of the word 'hell'

[[Image:Hieronymus Bosch - The Garden of Earthly Delights - Hell.jpg|right|300px|thumb|''Hell'', painted by [[Hieronymus Bosch]], part of ''[[The Garden of Earthly Delights]]''.]]
In the English translation of the [[Bible]]'s [[Old Testament]], the word '''Hell''' normally corresponds to the [[Hebrew]] ''sheol'', which was simply the place of the dead. But in the [[Greek language|Greek]] [[New Testament]] the word used is either ''Gehenna'' (the garbage dump outside the walls of Jerusalem where fires were kept eternally burning to consume the refuse and keep down the stench) or ''Hades'', the [[Greek mythology|Greek]]s' dark, gloomy underworld. The modern English word appears to derive most directly from "Hel", goddess of the dead in Germanic/[[Norse mythology]]. When the [[Anglo-Saxons]] later embraced [[Christianity]], the existing word in the language was reused in the new Christian concepts.

To Christians, Hell is a place where the souls of the wicked are punished eternally for all the [[sins]] they perpetrated during their lifetime on Earth. Since all have sinned (Rom 3:23), Hell can not be avoided on one's own merits, but through the love gift of [[Jesus]] one can know, love, and serve [[God]] and share eternity with Him in [[Heaven]].

The Christian and [[Muslim]] religious traditions often emphasize the ''Gehenna'' aspect: Hell is extremely hot and filled with fire and [[brimstone]]. Opinion varies on the question of whether, while Hell itself is eternal, experience of it purges away the sins of sufferers to the point of eventual redemption. See [[purgatory]]. A minority of Christians do not believe in an eternal Hell as punishment, believing instead that the souls of the wicked are annihilated. This view, which is directly contradicted by Scripture, is referred to as [[Annihilationism]]. Other deniers of Scripture question whether Hell has a literal burning fire, or it is merely separation from God and therefore has the same torment as if there were a burning fire. This view has been supported by writers such as [[J.P. Moreland]], although the Bible clearly contradicts this view and other symbolic interpretations of Hell. It is clearly a real, physical place where the wicked are punished for their sins.

Although Hell is a focus and a concern in Christian theology, the Bible has an even greater focus. In the [[King James Version]] the word Hell is mentioned 54 times, but [[Heaven]] is mentioned 551 times.

* [[Gospel of Matthew|Matthew]] 13:41-42 - ''The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.'''

* Matthew 25:41 - ''Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.''

* Matthew 25:46 - ''And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.''

* [[Gospel of Mark|Mark]] 9:43 - ''And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into Hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.''

* 2 Thes 1:7-8 - ''And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.''

* [[Book of Revelation|Revelation]] 20:10 - ''And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.''

* Revelation 20:14-15 - ''And death and Hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.''

== See also ==
* [[Dante's Inferno]]
* [[Mystery:What Percentage Go To Hell?|What percentage of people go to Hell?]]
==External Links==
*[http://bertschlossberg.blogspot.com/ The Gates of Hell: Assault on the Enemy Kingdom]

[[Category:Abrahamic Religions]]

Hieronymus Bosch

2013-03-06T18:01:19Z

Onestone: minor corrections

'''Hieronymus Bosch''' (born Jeroen Anthoniszoon van Aken) ('s-Hertogenbosch ca. 1450 – 's-Hertogenbosch 1516) was a Dutch [[The Renaissance|Renaissance]] [[painter ]]. In Spanish he is better known as "el Bosco". His works frequently depict [[sin]], [[evil]], and human moral failings; some of them are [[triptych]]s.

Some writers saw him as ''inventor of monsters and chimeras'' inspired by medieval [[heresies]], but for others he was a sort of 15th century [[surrealist]].

Several of his works are at the Prado Museum in [[Madrid]].
[[Image:Hieronymus Bosch - The Garden of Earthly Delights - Hell.jpg|right|thumb|''Hell'', detail of the triptych ''The Garden of Earthly Delights''.]]
[[Image:Hieronymus Bosch - The Garden of Earthly Delights.jpg|left|thumb|The Earthly Paradise (Garden of Eden), detail of the triptych ''The Garden of Earthly Delights''.]]
[[Image:Bosch The Garden of Earthly Delights.jpg|thumb|400px|center|The Garden of Earthly Delights, central panel of the triptych.]]

<center> </center>
{{Clear}}
== See also ==
[[Image:Bosch, Hieronymus The Hay Wain.jpg|thumb|The Hay Wain, central panel of the triptych.]]
*[[Painting Schools]]
*[[Painting Masterpieces]]
*[[Painting Galleries]]
*[[Albrecht Durer]]

== External links ==

*[http://www.hayinart.com/000099.html Hay In Art]
*[http://www.boschuniverse.org/ Bosch Universe]
*[http://www.abcgallery.com/B/bosch/boschbio.html Biography] Olga's Gallery.
{{DEFAULTSORT:Bosch, Hieronymus}}
[[Category:Painters]]

User talk:MelH

2013-03-04T17:56:18Z

Onestone: /* 90/10 */

{{welcome}}

==90/10==
I just noticed that out the twenty edits you have made since joining our encyclopedia, only three have been to actual articles, with all the rest being talk page edits. This is in contravention to our [[Conservapedia:Guidelines#90/10 Rule|90/10 rule]] which we have enacted in order to combat [[talk pollution]]. I'm forbidding you from making any further edits to talk pages until you meet the demand of our rules. Failure to comply will result in a two week ban. You have been warned. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 13:35, 3 March 2013 (EST)
:As far as I understand the site's laws, what is being counted are individual talk edits made by the user rather than the number of debates he participates. The rule is meant to maximize actual article editing and this one of the reasons I like this encyclopedia over other internet encyclopedias.

:Regarding my use of sheep over lamb, I prefer it because I think that when one engages in translation he should be as literal as possible. The word which was translated by me into sheep (and to lamb by the KJV) was "keves" (כבש). Keves does not denote any age and can refer to all sheep regardless of whether or not they're mature. Since those verses didn't use the Hebrew word for lamb ("tale" טלה) I decided to translate it into sheep. When choosing between lamb or sheep one must consult the original text. For example, when young sheep are mentioned in 1 Samuel, they should be referred to as lamb in the translation, since Samuel does use the word "tale". Sorry for not replying to it earlier, I didn't even see that you asked me about it at any point. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 17:25, 3 March 2013 (EST)

:: All your contributions seem to be fine, the problem with 90/10 is it doesn't take into account useful suggestions on talkpages or fixing up minor errors. I normally find it best to completely ignore talkpage edits under about 100 bytes as they are always just spelling, unfortunately it seems markman has not learned this yet. [[User:Dvergne|Dvergne]] 17:52, 3 March 2013 (EST)

:::Up until I approached him only three of his edits were to articles and you're telling me everything is cool? While it's somewhat challenging to decide when the 90/10 is broken, he was clearly in violation of it. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 12:34, 4 March 2013 (EST)

::::So in general, if a user asks valuable questions on a talkpage which result in a more balanced article, he can still be blocked for violating the 90/10 rule? To my mind that is entirely against the ''spirit'' of this rule, which was only meant to stop users from engaging in endless blather. A user who contributes to a discussion making useful edits should never end up being blocked. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 12:56, 4 March 2013 (EST)

Biblical scientific foreknowledge

2013-03-04T17:23:39Z

Onestone: /* The Concept of Infinity */ grammar

[[File:Newton.png|thumb|alt=scientific foreknowledge in the bible|250px|[[Isaac Newton]], cornerstone of the [[scientific revolution]], based his research on the scientific authority of the Bible and sought enlightenment in scripture.]]‎
'''Biblical scientific foreknowledge''' is how the [[Bible]] shows a comprehension of [[science|scientific]] knowledge far ahead of its time. ''Biblical scientific foreknowledge illustrates what is possible.''

[[Bible denier]]s — such as [[atheist]]s and [[evolution]]ists — engage in [[liberal denial]] about the many truths in the Bible. '''''Their irrational [[Essay:Quantifying Openmindedness|closed-mindedness]] against the Bible obstructs the advancement of science'''''.

'''Biblical scientific foreknowledge''' has another benefit: it facilitates improvements in the translation of verses that describe scientific-related events, such as [[Jesus]]'s [[Essay:Calming the Storm|Calming the Storm]], the reference to the universe in [[Epistle to the Hebrews (Translated)#1:10-11|Hebrews 1:10]], and the changing of [[Essay:Water into Wine|water into wine]] at the wedding feast.

== Geology ==

===Flood===
Modern scientists long opposed a young earth [[creation|created]] by God whereby cataclysmic flooding, such as the [[Great Flood]] described in the Bible, shaped the landscape. However, ample [[counterexamples to an old earth]] exist and the discovery in the Northwest of "giant ripple marks, 50 feet high and 200-500 feet apart" proved that a cataclysmic flood did indeed occur. As a result, "[a]mong geologists, the concept of a catastrophic flood came to be accepted by the late 1950s."<ref>http://www.iafi.org/floods.html</ref>

===Continental drift===
[[Continental drift]] was proposed by the creationist [[Antonio Snider-Pellegrini]] in 1859 based on Genesis 1:9-10, which implies that all of dry land was once in one place.<ref>http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c001.html</ref> [[Atheists]] mocked this concept for about 100 years, until finally accepting its truth.

=== Underwater springs ===

Only in moderns times have scientists become aware of enormous underwater springs feeding into the oceans, and the very deep valleys at the bottom of the oceans.

But the Bible repeatedly describes this thousands of years earlier: "on that very day '''''the deep subcrustal springs were broken open''''', and the windows of the sky were thrown open." ([[Genesis_1-8_%28Translated%29#Chapter_7|Genesis 7:11 (CBP)]], emphasis added). And again, in 2 Samuel 22:16, the Bible says, "And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered ...." ([[KJV]])

=== Agriculture ===

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, intellectuals insisted that the world's population would grow larger than the food supply, resulting in mass starvation. Yet there are examples in both the Old and New Testaments of the food supply increasing to be more plentiful than expected. Indeed, by 2011 obesity was far more prevalent and harmful than hunger.

== History ==

The Bible describes a [[Great Flood]] occurring around 3300 B.C., or about 5300 years ago. It involved a cataclysmic rainstorm of a magnitude never seen before or since. For centuries atheists have denied its possibility.

In 1991, an "ice mummy" was discovered: a remarkably preserved ancient body, including even the contents of his last meal, due to an extraordinary ice storm in the [[Alps]]. By radiometric carbon dating<ref>http://www.nupecc.org/iai2001/report/B44.pdf</ref>, the scientists found that the occurrence of this massive ice storm in the mountains (and rainstorm below) was 5300 years ago.<ref>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/icemummies/iceman.html</ref>

=== False Theories ===

Jesus's recognition that the truth would remain hidden from arrogant intellectuals while simultaneously revealed to humbler, [[Essay:Quantifying Openmindedness|openminded]] people. This foreshadowed the promotion of theories to pull self-centered intellectual wannabees away from [[God]], based on the [[Theory of Evolution]], [[Theory of Relativity]], [[homosexual agenda]], [[abortion]], [[communism]], etc.

=== No End to Mankind as Expected ===

The Bible predicts that the end of mankind will not occur by chance, but rather at a time known only to [[God]]. Despite the extinction of many species each year throughout history, the expectation by scientists that Earth should be hit by chance by a massive meteor, and laws of probability that predict other immense catastrophes within thousands of years, mankind continues and Christianity grows just as Jesus predicted.

==Health, Biology and Medicine==

===Common DNA===

[[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_1|John 1:3]] explains that "All things were made by Him; not one thing was made without Him." If something had been made without Him then creatures would exist that had completely different DNA from other creatures.

=== World obesity epidemic and obesity problem within the atheist population ===
[[File:11834504 3cc3c49559.jpg|187px|right|thumbnail|Two of the major risk factors for becoming [[obesity|obese]] according to the [[Mayo Clinic]] are poor dietary choices and inactivity.<ref>http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/obesity/DS00314/DSECTION=causes</ref> According to the [[Gallup poll|Gallup Inc.]], "Very religious Americans are more likely to practice healthy behaviors than those who are moderately religious or nonreligious."<ref>http://www.gallup.com/poll/145379/Religious-Americans-Lead-Healthier-Lives.aspx</ref>
 
 
(photo obtained from [http://www.flickr.com/photos/wader/11834504/ Flickr], see [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/deed.en license agreement]) ]]
See also: [[Atheism and obesity]] and [[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]] and [[Evolutionists who have had problems with being overweight and/or obese]]

The [[Saint Paul|Apostle Paul]] wrote that in the [[end times]], men would be lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God (2 Timothy 3:1-4). In May of 2012, the [[World Health Organization]] reported that "Worldwide obesity has more than doubled since 1980."<ref>[http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs311/en/ World Health Organization - obesity fact sheet]</ref> In 2008, more than 1.4 billion adults, 20 and older, were overweight. Of these over 200 million men and nearly 300 million women were obese.<ref>[http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs311/en/ World Health Organization - obesity fact sheet]</ref>

Two of the major risk factors for becoming [[obesity|obese]] according to the [[Mayo Clinic]] are poor dietary choices and inactivity.<ref>http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/obesity/DS00314/DSECTION=causes</ref> In addition, [[Chuck Norris]] says the most common cause of obesity is a hedonistic lifestyle (see: [[Chuck Norris on the topic of obesity]]). According to [[Gallup poll|Gallup Inc.]], "Very religious Americans are more likely to practice healthy behaviors than those who are moderately religious or nonreligious."<ref>http://www.gallup.com/poll/145379/Religious-Americans-Lead-Healthier-Lives.aspx</ref>

Christians have good reasons to believe a [[Hedonism|hedonist lifestyle]] is a causal factor of [[atheism]] (see: [[Causes of atheism]]).<ref>[http://creation.com/atheist-god-hate Why do atheists hate God?]</ref>

See also:

*[[Atheism and obesity]]

*[[New Atheism leadership's problem with excess weight]]

* [[Evolutionists who have had problems with being overweight and/or obese]]

===Eighth Day Blood Clotting Factors===

In Genesis 17:12, God mandated that Abraham circumcise his sons on the 8th day after birth. In 1935, it was discovered that Vitamin K, together with prothrombin, causes blood coagulation, (important in any surgical procedure). On the 8th day, the amount of prothrombin present is elevated above 100% of normal and is therefore the only day in the male’s life in which this will be the case (normally). If surgery is to be performed, day 8 is the perfect day to do it as vitamin K and prothrombin levels are at their peak.

===Lifespan===

The Bible put the maximum lifespan for man at 120 years (Genesis 6:3), the typical lifespan at 70 years and the typical for a good-living person at 80 years (Psalm 90:10).

Thousands of years after that was written, despite immense advances in medicine and technology, these figures remain remarkably accurate. The longest recorded life of a man is precisely 120 years (Shigechiyo Izumi), the average lifespan for a man is roughly 70 years, and the average for a good-living man is about 80 years.

[[Jeanne Calment]] lived to age 122, only two years past 120. She was said to have never worked and used olive oil on her skin, outliving all of of her [[feminist]] counterparts.

===Oldest Human Ancestor===

The Bible suggests that the oldest maternal ancestor — [[Eve]] — first lived slightly more than 6000 years ago.<ref>http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/scopes/ussher.html</ref> The mutation rate of [[mitochondria]] indicates roughly the same date for the most recent common human ancestor.<ref>http://creationwiki.org/Mitochondrial_Eve_lived_only_6500_years_ago_%28Talk.Origins%29</ref>

===Anesthesia===

The first surgical operation described in the Bible was the removal of a rib from [[Adam]], which was performed by first putting Adam into an unconscious, "deep sleep-like trance."<ref>[[Genesis 1-8 (Translated)|Genesis 2:21]]</ref> This was the equivalent of anesthesia — thousands of years before anesthesia using inhaled ether was developed by William Morton in 1846. Had scientists and physicians been more [[Essay:Quantifying Openmindedness|openminded]] about Genesis 2:21 (perhaps they had considered it a miracle, and thus impossible for humans to achieve), they may have discovered anesthesia far sooner, and saved many more lives.

===Bloodletting hastens death===

At the time of Jesus and for centuries afterward, arteries and veins were thought to be filled with air, and blood was viewed as something to be used up rather than recirculate. Bloodletting -- the practice of intentionally draining blood from a patient -- was common medical practice through the time of [[George Washington]], hastening his death prematurely for reasons not understood until years later.<ref>http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/37212.php</ref>

Most victims of crucifixion in Roman times languished on the cross for days. But the Bible describes how Pilate, who crucified many, was surprised at how quickly Jesus passed away. 2000 years later, scientific knowledge has advanced to understand that this was caused by his prior loss of blood during his scourging (being brutally whipped), a punishment typically given ''instead of'' crucifixion.

===Homosexuality and disease===
The Bible's prohibition against [[homosexuality]] predated knowledge about the [[Homosexuality and Health|many diseases and disorders associated with homosexuality]], and thus showed scientific wisdom prescient for its time.

=== Eyesight ===

The description in the [[Mark 1-8 (Translated)|Gospel of Mark 8:24]] for the sensation when one's eyesight is restored includes his perception of "trees walking." This perception was first confirmed nearly 2000 years later as physicians developed medical techniques for restoring eyesight.<ref>This newspaper account is not specific but describes the overall sensation of restored sight: [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-138886/Robot-eye-restore-lost-sight-20-years.html]</ref>

=== Maximum Human Height ===

Atheists thought the size of [[Goliath]] in the Bible to be absurdly large (over nine feet tall), until [[Robert Wadlow]] grew to nearly 9 feet tall and was still growing when he died at a young age in 1940.

=== Quarantining Against Leprosy Epidemics ===

Although leprosy is not as contagious as other infectious diseases, and some forms of it (such as tuberculoid or paucibacillary form are not contagious), Leviticus 13 and 14 set forth rules to prevent epidemics of this disease among the people of Israel. Western science did not catch up until, in 1663, such laws were introduced in America in an attempt to curb an outbreak of smallpox.

Centuries ahead of medical science, Jesus subsequently explained that leprosy was not as contagious as people thought.

=== Hygiene ===

Millennia before germ theory was proposed in the late 19th century, Leviticus 15 mandated hygiene laws that included bathing, washing of clothing, destruction of contaminated pottery and washing of hands.

In Matthew 15:2, Jesus then curbed compulsive hand-washing by explaining why it was no longer typically necessary (in a non-farming, non-medical context) with respect to man's digestive system.

=== Digestive System ===

It was common thought throughout history that infections and illness resulted from the digestive system, based on unclean hands or food. Jesus rejected that view, and declared hand-washing before meals to be typically unnecessary. It took many centuries before science caught up to the Bible on this.

It is part of the Jewish kosher law to not eat milk with meat. In some Jewish homes they have separate refrigerators for meat and milk products. It comes from Deuteronomy 14:21 "...Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk." There is evidence that the body has difficulty digesting both meat and milk at the same time.

Also, as part of the Jewish kosher law a pork is on the list of prohibited foods. Under cooked pork can transmit Trichinosis, a parasitic disease that can infect muscle tissue, the brain, and the central nervous system, among other [[parasite]]s and zoonotic diseases. [[Creation denial|Creation deniers]] can counter this point only with such desperate non-arguments as asking why God had to create trichinae at all and then allow them onto the [[Ark]].

=== Feasibility of [[Abiogenesis]] ===
Although scientists dismissed ideas involving [[Abiogenesis|abiogenesis]], or the process from which life emerges from nothing, as nothing more than archaic beliefs in [[spontaneous generation]], the Bible very clearly depicts an occurrence of this phenomenon, for beginning in Genesis 1:20, [[God]] creates life from nothing. It was not until the early 20th century that science finally began to accept the viability of abiogenesis, a view that the Bible had held for almost 2000 years, except that [[atheists]] falsely claim that abiogenesis is somehow possible without a creator.

=== Awareness while Unborn ===
[[Abortion]] advocates argue that it is ok to terminate a baby while dismissing the pain inflicted by ending an innocent life. They argue that a fetus cannot feel pain because senses are incomplete. There is a heart-beating human in the womb that can feel even though still unborn and developing. In modern times, we now know the baby in the womb is alert, aware of their mother's emotions, recognizes voices, responds to stimuli and music. The Bible tells us the baby feels (1 Luke 44), ''"the babe leaps for joy in Elizabeth’s womb at the sound of Mary’s voice."'' The inwomb developing baby, John the Baptist, notices the presence of the unborn [[Lord]] in [[Mary]], and is excited. In addition (St. Paul to the Galatians 1:15), ''"God… from my mother’s womb had set me apart and called me through his grace."'' Paul's very first thought, feeling awareness, began while unborn.

=== Embalming ===

[[Mark_9-16_(Translated)#Chapter_14|Mark 14:3-8]] describes an embalming process to preserve a body after death, which was not discovered in the West until 1867.

=== The significance of blood ===

The Old Testament teaches that the [[life]] of all flesh is its [[blood]] ({{Bible ref|book=Leviticus|chap=17|verses=13-14|version=KJV}}). Secular science remained ignorant of the properties and circulation of blood until the 17th century A.D.<ref>[http://wap.bible.org/nbw/deu12_notes.htm Net Bible: Notes] to [http://wap.bible.org/nbw/deu12.htm#1234 Deuteronomy 12:23] </ref>

=== Menstruation ===

The Biblical laws concerning [[menstruation]], including the setting apart of the menstruating woman and the prohibition on intimacy during menstruation, address health concerns that were not known to secular science until the 20th century.<ref>Neuburger, Max. History of Medicine. Oxford University Press, 1910, Vol. I, p. 38.</ref> Also, modern science has only very recently discovered that following such rules dramatically reduces the rate of [[illegitimacy]].<ref>[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120604182027.htm How Religion Promotes Confidence About Paternity]</ref>

=== Cloning ===

{{Bible ref|book=Genesis|chap=2|verses=21-22|version=KJV}} records that God made a [[woman]] out of one of [[Adam]]'s [[rib]]s. Secular scientists did not believe that [[cloning]] such a complex organism (apart from plants) was possible until 1997.<ref>[http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/cloning.shtml Cloning Fact Sheet]</ref>

===Inbreeding===

Leviticus 18:7-11 elaborates in detail the relationships it regards as incestuous unions, to forbid inbreeding. Secular science was able to scientifically explain the mechanisms and risks of inbreeding only in modern times.

==Cosmology==

===The Starlight Problem===

The [[Starlight Problem]] confounds all theories about the universe: light has reached us from stars that are too far away to transmit the light within the age of the universe. But Genesis explains this easily: "let there be light" means that God created light, not merely stars.

===Planet Formation at Dawn of Universe===

Theories of an old universe insisted that planet formation did not occur until long after the origin of the universe, contrary to the [[Book of Genesis]]. But in 2012 scientists announced the existence of planets that formed "at dawn of universe."<ref>http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0330/Planets-found-at-dawn-of-universe-but-their-existence-is-a-mystery</ref>

===UFOs and Extraterrestrial Life===

For most of the 20th century, scientists typically believed in the existence of extraterrestrial life, despite the lack of any reference to it in the [[Bible]]. After spending many billions of dollars looking for such life, and investigating countless reports of UFOs, no such life has been found.

===Number of Stars===

The [[Bible]] repeatedly refers to the number of stars as being innumerable,<ref>''See'' Genesis 15:5, Jeremiah 33:22 and Hebrews 11:12.</ref> despite scientists insisting throughout most of history that there were only about 6000 stars. In the early 17th century [[Galileo]] turned a telescope to the heavens and discovered a great number of stars that had been previously invisible to the naked eye.<ref>http://galileo.rice.edu/lib/student_work/astronomy95/orionpleiades.html</ref>

Not until the 20th century did scientists discover the tremendous number of stars:<ref>http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/07/22/stars.survey/index.html</ref>

:There are "10 times as many stars as grains of sand on all the world's beaches and deserts," totaling "7 followed by 22 zeros or, more accurately, 70 sextillion.

But even that scientific estimate was much too low. On December 1, 2010, scientists admitted:<ref>http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/1201/Universe-might-hold-three-times-more-stars-than-previously-thought</ref>

:"a cosmic embarrassment of riches – ''the universe appears to hold three times the number of stars many [[astronomer]]s might have estimated only a year ago''."

===Each Star is Unique===
Although the use of telescopes to chart the outer-reaches of God's heavenly creation was developed around the 16th century in Europe, the Bible accurately hypothesized that every star is unique.

"There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory"- 1 Corinthians 15:41 <ref>http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml</ref>

===Spherical Sun and Earth===
The Book of Isaiah establishes that the true shape of the earth is a sphere:
{{cquote|He sits above the sphere of the earth, and its inhabitants look to him like grasshoppers. He stretches out the galaxies like a curtain, spreading them out like a tent to live under: - [[Isaiah_34-42_(Translated)#Chapter_40|Isaiah 40:22 (CBP]])}}

Likewise, with respect to the [[sun]], the Book of Proverbs 8:27 ([[ESV]]) states:
{{cquote|When he established the heavens, ... he drew a circle on the face of the deep}}

The Book of Isaiah was written circa the 8th century BC, and the Book of Proverbs even earlier. This was centuries before Greek philosophers, beginning with [[Pythagoras]], theorized the earth was round, and it was not discovered until 2012 that the sun is perfectly spherical. Astronomers were not able to conclude until well into the second millennium of [[Christ]] that the Earth is also a sphere.

=== Earth free floating in space ===
The book of Job states that God "hangs the earth on nothing." It also contrasts with pagan mythologies such as [[Atlas]] holding up the earth or the earth being supported by a giant turtle, as in ancient Hindu and native American myths.

The Bible presaged the modern view that space is in fact empty, which wasn't known until the dawn of the 20th century when ether theories became disfavored.

=== Darkness, and Unexplained Ripples in Cosmic Background Radiation ===

[[Genesis 1-8 (Translated)|Genesis Chapter 1]] explains that [[God]] created light first, rather than merely stars. A "big bang" would result in light everywhere, without darkness, and without ripples in cosmic background radiation. Yet in the 21st century ripples were discovered in cosmic background radiation, which can only be plausibly explained by recognizing that light was created first.

=== Meteoroids ===
The Revelation of Saint John notes,
{{cquote|And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. Revelation 8:8-9 (KJV)}}
This accurately describes meteoroids, essentially large chunks of rock lit on fire by the shock of entering the earth's atmosphere. They were not discovered until 1801, and their composition was not otherwise known until the 20th century.

=== Stellar proper movement ===
In [[Job]], there is a list of challenges that are constructed in the form of questions, with the idea that man can't do it, but God can.

Among those challenges, two are remarkable: one mentions the ''untying'' of Orion's belt, and the other is the ''binding'' of the Pleiades. One recently astronomers could measure the proper movement of those stars; Orion's belt is moving apart, with each star going in a different direction, while the Pleiades are moving together.

=== Space flight ===
Many theorize that the book of [[Ezekiel]] contains descriptions of spaceships and rockets, as they would have been described by someone thousands of years ago. [http://www.spaceshipsofezekiel.com/ Author Blumrich] has even published an entire book about this.

===Expanding universe===
The [[Bible]] explains, in 17 different verses, that [[God]] "stretched out" the heavens,<ref>http://www.creationists.org/God-streched-out-the-universe-bible-verses.html</ref> in other words, expanding the fabric of space-time from a smaller size to a much larger one. Scientists have discovered only in the last 100 years that, by studying the red shift of galaxies, the universe indeed appears to be expanding, or "stretching out."

== Meteorology ==
=== Existence of the [[Jet Stream]] ===
Ecclesiastes 1:6 notes, "The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits." This described the jet stream long before its 19th-20th century discovery.

=== Water cycle ===

The existence of the water cycle was not known until imperial Roman times, but the Bible described it over a thousand years before that!
See [[Ecclesiastes]] 11:3, [[Job]] 26:8 and [[Amos]] 9:6

== Physics ==

=== Impossibility of a Grand Unified Theory ===

Billions of dollars and millions of hours have been wasted by [[atheists]] in futile pursuit of a "grand unified theory" for physics. But [[Genesis_1-8_(Translated)#Chapter_1|Genesis]] explains that the creation of light was done in a separate, initial creation, free of darkness or entropy, and thus incapable of unification with matter.

=== Light and Color ===

Prior to the work of [[Isaac Newton]], white was considered to be the fundamental color of light, and other colors (such as red, green and blue) were formed by adding to white light. Under that traditional theory, the fullness of all light (a combination of all colors of light) would result in something other than pure white.

The transfiguration of Jesus is described with remarkable consistency in all three synoptic [[Gospel]]s: in the fullness of light Jesus and his clothing display an intense white, whiter than any bleach could produce. This illustrates what was not discovered and accepted until nearly 1700 years later: that white is the combination of other fundamental colors, and the purest white light is formed by a perfectly full combination (see [[Prism]]).

=== Action-at-a-distance ===

[[Jesus]] demonstrated [[action-at-a-distance]], as recounted in [[John 1-7 (Translated)|John 4:46-54]]. Scientists, particularly [[atheists]], denied the possibility of this phenomenon for thousands of years. When Newton proposed action-at-a-distance as the basis of gravity, scientists continued to reject it, but eventually accepted it as being true.

Later the [[Theory of Relativity]] again denied the possibility of action-at-a-distance, but [[quantum mechanics]] subsequently proved that it does occur.<ref>See also [[Counterexamples to Relativity]].</ref>

=== Quantum Mechanics ===

The fundamental principle of [[quantum mechanics]] is that the underlying reality is in random fluctuation, or chaos, until there is intelligent observation of it. This is precisely what [[Luke 1-8 (Translated)#Luke 4:6|Luke 4:6]] reveals when it quotes the [[devil]], which is derived from an ancient word for chaos, in saying that he has dominion over this world.

==== Observation of the Wave Function ====
The second chapter of the [[Gospel of John]] describes the conversion of water into wine by [[Jesus]] at a wedding reception. [[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_2|John 2:9]] states: "When the host of the wedding feast tasted the water, it had been made into wine." This passage implies that the drink was not wine until it had been tasted, or observed. Possibly, the drink was a superposition of the state of wine and the state of water until it was observed as wine.

A storm developed over the water while Jesus slept (i.e., chaos develops when God is not observing), and it was Jesus's awaking to observe it that calmed the storm. This famous [[Essay:Calming the Storm|calming of the storm]] is typically translated as the result of a "rebuke" by [[Jesus]] of the bad weather. But a closer look at the Greek reveals that the key term means "judge" rather than "rebuke", and thus it was the act of Jesus observing the chaos that caused it to "collapse" into an orderly state, similar to the effect of observing a wave function.

In Matthew 16:19, Jesus draws a then-unusual distinction between what is fixed and what is uncertain by declaring, "Whatever you make binding on earth will be binding in heaven, and whatever you set loose on earth will be set loose in heaven."<ref>http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Matthew_10-19_%28Translated%29&oldid=870778#Chapter_16</ref> This may describe the fundamental uncertainty that continues unless and until there is human observation that then causes the wave function to collapse into a particular ("bound") state.

==== [[Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle]] ====

Both the Old and New Testaments refer to a fundamental uncertainty that requires observation to resolve, akin to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle discovered in the 1920s:

* "The earth came to exist in an utterly formless and empty state." [[Genesis 1-8 (Translated)|Genesis 1:2]].
* The master refusing to order the removal of the weeds sowed among the wheat because of the uncertainty in distinguishing between the two until later: [[Matthew 10-19 (Translated)|Matthew 13:24-30]].

==== Wave-Particle Duality ====

Particles are subject to gravity; waves are not. Wave-particle duality, first discovered in the 20th century, allows for a particle to sometimes be subject to gravity and sometimes not.

The wave-particle duality was described nearly 2000 years earlier in the Gospel account of Jesus walking on water: [[Mark 1-8 (Translated)|Mark 6:45-54]]. A close reading of the passage reveals the wave-like (or light-like) characteristic of the walking on water:
{{cquote|he walked on the surface of the lake and came to the boat, ''nearly passing it''. But when they saw him walking on water, they thought it must have been ''a ghost'', and cried out.}}
[[Mark 1-8 (Translated)|Mark 6:48-49]] (italics added).

In a more general sense, [[Jesus]] could be viewed as the "particle" and the [[Holy Spirit]] as the "wave" of [[God]]. A fuller understanding of the [[Trinity]] could have opened the eyes of scientists much earlier to the fundamental wave-particle duality of nature ... and still could.

==== Quantum tunneling ====

[[Quantum tunneling]] is the ability of particles to move through energy barriers even though ostensibly impossible based on classical laws of mechanical physics. This was not discovered by scientists until the 20th century.

[[Jesus]] proved this was possible in [[John_15-21_(Translated)#Chapter_20|John 20:26]], when he appeared before the [[Apostles]] in a closed room with completely shut doors.

=== Classical Relativity ===
Romans 10:6-7: But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

Equating ascending into heaven to bringing Christ down is an example of the fact that there is no universal reference frame, and only relative speeds matter.

=== Modern Relativity ===
The [[Theory of Relativity]] denies the possibility of action-at-a-distance. But several passages in the Bible, such as [[John 1-7 (Translated)|John 4:46-54]] and [[Matthew 20-28 (Translated)|Matthew 27:51]], describe simultaneous actions from afar.

The list of [[Counterexamples to Relativity]] has grown recently, and modern experiments in [[quantum mechanics]] have confirmed action-at-a-distance.

=== [[Second Law of Thermodynamics]] ===

The [[Genesis 1-8 (Translated)|Book of Genesis]] states that the darkness or chaos in the universe can never overcome the light, or order. This same concept was not discovered in physics until the development of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which holds that heat (or order or light) always travels in the direction of cold (or disorder or darkness), and never in the opposite direction. On the other hand, the Second Law of Thermodynamics predicts a heat death for the universe; thus the universe will eventually be dark and chaotic. Thus, the validity of this statement is questionable.

[[Epistle to the Hebrews (Translated)#1:10-11|Hebrews 1:10-11]] explains that the universe shall "wear out" like a "garment", centuries before the discovery of the physical law that [[entropy]] is always increasing.

=== The nature of air ===

Until about 300 years ago, common knowledge believe that the air was "empty" and didn't weigh anything. But [[Job]] 28:25 says "To establish a '''weight''' for the wind, And apportion the waters by measure" indicating that the divinely inspired author knew the air had substance and weight.

=== Conservative forces ===

James 1:17 describes the electromagnetic forces (light) as having no "shadow of turning." Not understood for nearly 2000 years, this predicts that electromagnetic forces are [[conservative]] such that their [[line integrals]] over a closed loop are zero.

== Mathematics ==
=== Zero ===

Mathematicians in Western Europe did not discover [[zero]] until many centuries after the [[Bible]] was written. But there are hundreds of references to the concept of zero throughout the Bible.

=== [[Banach-Tarski Paradox]] ===
The only miracle described in all four [[Gospels]] is the multiplication of loaves and fish by [[Jesus]], thought for thousands of years to be a mathematical and physical impossibility. But the 20th century discovery of the so-called [[Banach-Tarski Paradox]] proved a mathematical basis for creating identical copies of an object out of no extra material.

=== Axiomatization of Arithmetic ===
The full set of axioms for integer arithmetic may be found in the Bible, as demonstrated by J.C. Keister.<ref>[http://www.biblicalblueprints.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/MathAndBible.pdf J. C. Keister: "''Math and the Bible''"], Biblical Blueprints Omaha, NE, 1999 (pdf)</ref> For example, [[Luke 9-16 (Translated)|Luke 12:52]] is a striking statement of the commutative law for addition: "For from this point forward there will be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three." This understanding presaged both later attempts at the axiomatization of arithmetic by Peano and the development of [[abstract algebra]] in the 19th and 20th centuries.

=== The Concept of [[Infinity]] ===

Most thinkers scoffed at the concept of infinity for thousands of years, despite it being referenced in the Bible in many ways. See, e.g., Psalm 147:4-6 (God's "understanding is infinte"); [[Matthew 20-28 (Translated)#20:1|Matthew 20:1-14]] ([[parable]] of the wages for the workers in the vineyard); Matthew 16:26 (one's soul has an infinite value to him, and nothing else can be worth more).

But [[Georg Cantor]], deeply inspired by [[Christianity]], established a logical foundation for infinity that revolutionized all of mathematics as a result, with his development of [[set theory]] to accomplish his goal.

=== [[Set theory]] ===

[[Georg Cantor]]'s development of [[set theory]] in the late 19th century was initially rejected by many great mathematicians, including [[Henri Poincare]], before it became the basis for nearly all of mathematics today. But the Bible contains many hints in support of set theory, as in the "last shall be first, and the first shall be last."

=== Calculus ===

The Bible emphasizes the importance of limits as a key distinction between this world and God; Calculus consists of relying on limits to derive useful results.<ref>[http://www.aiias.edu/ict/vol_27/27cc_225-239.htm Norie Grace Rivera-Poblete: "''God and Calculus''"], Institute for Christian Teaching Education Department of [[Seventh-day Adventist]], Prepared for the 27th International Faith and Learning Seminar held at Mission, Muak Lek Saraburi, Thailand December 3 – 15, 2000</ref>

James 1:17 states that the first and second derivatives of God's light (truth) is zero, more than 1600 years before calculus was discovered: "with [God] there is no variation or shadow of turning."<ref name="Shadow of Turning">[http://edgeinducedcohesion.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/no-variation-or-shadow-of-turning-calculus-in-the-bible/ Nathan Albright: ''"No Variation Or Shadow Of Turning: Calculus In The Bible"''], Blog-Entry, Feb 24, 2011 </ref>

== Sociology ==

===Crime===

Mark 4:22 says how nothing can be hid, neither can anything be kept secret. Empirical statistics show that the vast majority of crimes worldwide are solved.

== Zoology ==

===Inability of Animals to Understand Morality===

[[Genesis 1-8 (Translated)|Genesis 3:1-10]] explains that only humans understand good and evil, and clothe themselves because of it. Repeatedly scientists have attempted to demonstrate that animals can understand morality also, but every attempt has failed. No animal (other than humans) has ever been found that clothes itself. However, as as limited case, animals do demonstrate altruistic behavior.

===Existence of dinosaurs===
[[Dinosaur]] fossils were not discovered until the 19th century, but the book of [[Job]] describes enormous creatures called behemoth and leviathan, the descriptions being similar to dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures. It may also have referred to another similarly giant now-extinct species. Other dinosaur like creatures mentioned are the cockatrice and satyr <ref>http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i2/behemoth.asp</ref>

===Lions' killing methods===

Until the 1970s naturalists believed that lions killed their prey by biting through the neck or by breaking the neck with a swat of a paw, while the Bible says that lions suffocated their prey. (Nahum 2:12) It was not until the 1970s that it was discovered that the [[Bible]] was correct.<ref>http://ed5015.tripod.com/BLions87.htm</ref> Lions fit their mouth over the mouth and nose of their prey and hold it while it suffocates, in addition to other killing methods.

=== Giant sea creatures and Jonah ===

The [[Jonah (Translated)|Book of Jonah]] describes his survival in the belly of a giant sea creature for 2.5 to 3 days. Scientists declared this to be impossible due to powerful stomach acids that quickly break down any material and the lack of breathable air inside marine animals.

In 2010, scientists found the following materials intact in the belly of a gray whale that had died after being stranded on a Northwest beach:<ref>http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/19/pair-sweat-pants-garbage-beached-whales-stomach/</ref>

*a pair of sweat pants
*a golf ball
*over 20 plastic bags
*small towels
*duct tape
*surgical gloves

Of course, many sea creatures have gone extinct in the thousands of years since Jonah lived.

===Worker ants===
Proverbs 6:6-8 correctly states the sex of worker [[ant]]s (female), using the correct one of the two [[Grammar#Gender|grammatical genders]] available in Biblical [[Hebrew]]. Secular entomologists would not discover that fact until the 19th century.<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=rzwSAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA6&dq=ant+undeveloped+female+worker+date:1700-1850&lr=&as_brr=0&as_pt=ALLTYPES#v=onepage&q&f=false The study of medicine, Volume 5 By John Mason Good]</ref>

==Linguistics==

===Common Descent?===
The [[theory of evolution]] suggests that all languages are descended from a common ancestral language, and for a century (1860 to about 1960) scientists clung to that view. But now most linguists identify many different families of languages that have no common ancestor, just as described in Genesis 11 with the [[Tower of Babel]].

===Earliest Hebrew Writings===
Skeptics have claimed that [[Hebrew]] writing did not exist before the 6th century B.C. But a recent Israeli archaeological dig dated four centuries earlier, in the 10th century B.C., included an artifact found at Khirbet Qeiyafa in the Elah Valley. This artifact contained a written inscription in Hebrew relating to "slaves, widows and orphans." Haifa University Professor Gershon Galil noted that this disproves the theory that the Bible could not have been written before the 6th century.<ref>http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2010/01/08/Bible-may-be-centuries-older-than-thought/UPI-21171262997765/</ref>

== Economics ==

Jesus stated that there will always be poverty,<ref>See Mark 14:7, Matthew 26:11 and John 12.8.</ref> yet [[liberals]] repeatedly insist that poverty can be eliminated with more government spending. Every attempt to eliminate poverty has failed just as Jesus predicted. In 1991 [[Ronald Coase]] won a [[Nobel Prize]] in [[Economics]] for the [[Coase Theorem]], which implies that government attempts to reduced poverty will interfere with efficient operation of the economy, and thereby reduce wealth.

== Government and Politics ==

===Nation State===
Ancient Israel, as described in the [[Old Testament]], was a [[nation-state]] and that model was not utilized again until thousands of years later, well after the Renaissance in Western Europe. This model of a nation-state has become the modern standard worldwide.

===Separation of Powers===
The separation of powers adopted successfully by the [[U.S. Constitution]] in 1787, with the legislative, executive, and judicial branches having separate authority and jurisdiction, was first described in the Old Testament.<ref>See Jeremiah 17:19 and Isaiah 33:22.</ref>

===The Liberal Influence of the Media===
The Third [[Three Temptations of Christ|Temptation of Christ]] is to bow down and worship the [[Satan]] in exchange for becoming ruler of the world. The media plays that role and its influence is predictably [[liberal]] and anti-[[Christian]].

==Engineering examples==

Biblical scientific foreknowledge about these engineering developments has been proposed:<ref>http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2191</ref>
{{cquote|automobiles (Joel 2:3-4); airplanes (Isaiah 31:5, also 40:31); submarines (Revelation 9:1-11); radio (Ecclesiastes 10:20); and television (Revelation 11:3-12)}}
Classical photography, using negative imaging, was predated by the [[Shroud of Turin]] with respect to the imaging on the Shroud likely due to the light of the [[Resurrection]]. The Shroud ([[Greek]]: σινδών - sindón) is mentioned in three Gospels: Matthew 27:59, Mark 15:46, Luke 23:53, while John 20:5-7 talks about a face cloth or napkin ([[Greek]]: σουδάριον - soudárion - perhaps the [[Sudarium of Oviedo]]), and a piece of fine linen ([[Greek]]: ὀθόνιον - othonion). The description by the eyewitness John implies that his sighting of the Shroud may have confirmed his [[faith]], though he doesn't mention its photograph-like image <ref>John Calvin, who opposed the Catholic Church, wrote a book in 1543 criticizing all material evidence of Jesus and the martyrs. In it he claimed that because the negative image on the Shroud is not described in the Gospels, it must not be authentic. [[John Calvin]]: ''Traité des Reliques'', Geneve 1543, translated by Valerian Krasinski: ''A treatise on Relics'', Edingburgh 1854</ref>.

== Alleged absurdities and contradictions ==

Biblical scientific foreknowledge is an underpinning of creation science, and is widely credited by Christian scientists and apologists, including the organizations [[Creation Ministries International]], [[Answers in Genesis]], and [[CreationWiki]].<ref>http://creationwiki.org/index.php/Bible_scientific_foreknowledge.</ref><ref>[http://creationwiki.org/index.php/Bible_scientific_foreknowledge Bible Scientific Foreknowledge]</ref><ref>http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/1718/</ref><ref>http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v17/i1/medicine.asp</ref>

Atheists unsuccessfully attempt to discredit the Bible based on science. Here are some examples:

=== Bat as a bird ===
A favorite evolutionist canard is that Leviticus 11:13-19 labels the [[bat]], a [[mammal]], as a [[bird]]. But this is an obvious failure of translation, as the Hebrew term '' 'owph'' did not entail the "clade" of birds, but was a non-biological category referring to any winged creature, mammalian, avian, or insect. The KJV translation as "fowl" is simply incorrect. A popular Jewish translation, used to explain the laws of keeping kosher, translates the term as "winged flying things."

=== Incorrect value of Pi ===
Two sections of the bible (1 Kings 7, 23-26, 2 Chronicles, 4, 2-5) appear to indicate that the correct value of [[Pi]] is 3, whereas Pi is in fact an irrational number, equalling approximately 3.14159. Atheists, including [[Sam Harris]] and [[Richard Dawkins]], allege that this value indicates the fallacious nature of scripture.<ref>The Richard Dawkins Foundation, ''Reply to a Christian'', Sam Harris - [http://richarddawkins.net/articles/139]</ref> However, a simple explanation of the claimed "contradiction" is that the Bible records the ratio of the actual object which Hiram created, not that of a mathematical [[sphere]]. The claim that it was round all about does not equate to a claim that it was a perfect sphere, as atheists have claimed.<ref>''Theology'', Volume 59, Issues 427-438, Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge (Great Britain), London, 1956, p. 23 </ref> Additionally, pi to one significant digit is 3. Just because the measurement is only given to one significant digit does not mean it was precisely that amount. Of course, since pi is an irrational number, it would be impossible to give a truly precise measurement. Since decimal notation was not in use in Biblical times, there was no way to express pi to greater accuracy in the language of the day.

==See Also==
*[[Biblical political foreknowledge]]
*[[Christianity and Science]]
*[[Creation vs. Evolution Videos]]
*[[The Bible]]
*[[Evolution]]
*[[Atheism]]

==External Links==
*[http://www.creationwiki.org/Bible_scientific_foreknowledge Bible scientific foreknowledge] by [[CreationWiki]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}
[[Category:Bible]]
[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Creationism]]

{{Template:Creation vs. evolution}}

Talk:Socialism

2013-03-03T19:22:22Z

Onestone: /* Please remove picture of Hitler */

"This correlates with a rise in atheism," I think it should be noted that correlation does not show causation. What is the correlation coefficient? Is there a positive or a negative correlation?
-Gasmonkey

"Socialism has caused more deaths…" What, really? A reference would go great with that opinion. --[[User:Prometheus|Prometheus]] 01:19, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Laughable bias ==

"Leading European Socialists are very critical of America."

Of America? Of the american government? Some of the american governments? Some of the american goverments policies? American corporations? American food? American anti-americans? American republicans, democrats, liberals, jews, muslims, african americans, hispanics? I assume you mean all those things since you just say America? Do you have a valid point somewhere buried under that mountain of prejudice and generalisation? [[User:Messpm|Messpm]] 15:25, 17 March 2007 (EDT)
::: It is self-evident socialists of any kind are critical of The American Dream, including leftists who by nature wish the destruction of the current administration so they can set up their own. Socialists do not like anything about what America means, though they more and more like what America is becoming. [[User:JBristol|JBristol]] 22:05, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

:: Also, the source that backs it up mentions America ''once''.

' One thing is clear: the unilateral military style approach of the Bush-administration has failed'

I'm removing it with the ridiculous 'vastly superior' remark. [[User:Wikinterpreter|Wikinterpreter]]

[[User:AmeriCan]] keeps reverting my edits saying that it stresses the rights of the many over the priveliges of the few, as opposed to vice versa. I'm tired of edit warring and don't want to get blocked for something that is not worth it. [[User:GodlessLiberal|GodlessLiberal]] 01:32, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
:Okay, this article is just [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Socialism&diff=next&oldid=135051 ridiculous]. I give up. [[User:GodlessLiberal|GodlessLiberal]] 13:49, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
== Incentives ==

I couldn't find anywhere in this article where socialism lacks incentives. Should I add it in? The lack of incentives is a crucial reason to why socialism doesn't work in societies. [[User:AdrianP|AdrianP]] 01:40, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

This article's lack of knowledge is laughable and as an evil limey toothéd bastard who can spell things right (color=LOL) who is also a European Socilaist who is critical of America (the whole world is socialist by that standard) I must correct this issue.
LOL at the moron who re-edited my work, they do not know history well enough to try and battle me over Atlee.

== "Socialist" Britain ==

Rob, re your revision to Socialism. First, you make a large assumption about how socialist New Labour is (they aren't), second, the Conservatives would be far less likely to change the rules than any Socialist party, partly because thirdly, it would require disestablisment of the Church of England, which in any case could almost certainly not be achieved in the ten years New Labour have been in power, even if it was something they intended to do. Based on this I think the phrase "Socialist Britain" is inappropriate and removing it would not be liberal bias. In fact, retaining it is conservative bias. --[[User:Olly|Olly]] 15:23, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
:So the Socialists do not oppose religious discriminition then? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:30, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
::Which socialists? New Labour do - they have in fact introduced legislation outlawing discrimination based on religious belief. But as I said - they're not Socialists in the sense that you would use. And as the article says - Catholics are not barred from being Prime Minister. They are barred from holding one of the ceremonial offices associated with the post - an office which could be renounced without having any impact on the powers intrinsic to the post of Prime Minister.--[[User:Olly|Olly]] 15:35, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
:::This article gives a glowing description of what Socialism has done for Britian since 1945; it does not differentiate between Brand X Socialism and Brand Z; together, whatever stripe, along with all those great things they've done, you'd think eliminating bigotry would be high on the list. Must be a case where they are willing to compromise their principles in exchange for real political power. Nonetheless, they never stop talking about things like oppression, etc. Oh, I forgot, people who beleive in God are fair game for discrimination -- that's one of the basic tenets of Socialism. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:44, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
::::Socialism in Britain has done more to eliminate bigotry in Britain than any other movement. In fact so much that it is accused of political correctness. That this singular example remains is not an indictment of socialism - in fact that such a small example seems to raise your ire so much shows just how far bigotry has been eliminated.

::::People who believe in God are not discriminated against in this case. Adherants to '''any faith or denomination''' except Catholic are eligible; and the restriction to Catholics applies only to one essentially irrelevant ceremonial office associated with the post. Can you please address the points I make in the way I have yours?--[[User:Olly|Olly]] 15:53, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
:::::So Britian, under various Socialist governments since 1945, has continued to discriminate against Roman Catholics. Why should this be surprising? It is very much in keeping with Socialist doctrine. And we can certainly conclude, Socialism ''does not'' respect equality. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 16:04, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
::::::Everything you say can be repeated for Conservatism in this case, and you continue to ignore all of my points. Forget it.--[[User:Olly|Olly]] 16:08, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
:::::::Ignore which points? Are arguing discrimination against Catholics is not discrimination? Why? Because they're Catholic? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 16:15, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
:::::::: I have to reiterate Olly's point here. I live in Britain, and I know that the Labour Party, since the [[Third Way]] (the third way, see? Not socialism, not conservatism, but a middle), is not a socialist party. ergo, blaming discrimination on socialists is false. --Wikinterpreter'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Wikinterpreter talk?]

::::::::: I rarely comment on politics but I have to agree with the British users here (being one myself). The Labour Party ceased to be a socialist party with the move to becoming New Labour (their proper title) and the implementation of the [[Third Way]]. New Labour seem to be in the strange position of trying to appeal to both the left and the right at the same time with neither Conservative nor Liberal values other than those required to win the popular vote. What is more worrying to the British conservative is that the Conservative Tory party seem to be following the same path required to win the mass vote leaving Britain in the strange position that both our main left and right parties have moved to the centre leaving nothing that would reflect either conservative or liberal views other than some rather, errr, I'll be polite here and say odd, fringe political groups such as the detestable BNP (no policies other than those of racism) and the pointless UKIP (too insular by far). Socialism has been dead since Labour morphed into New Labour (best described as a "Labour scented party") and traditional conservatism seems to be following the same path --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 17:54, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:: new labour is certainly not socialist in nature! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 17:56, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::I have to confess, I get lost in leftist ideological fever swamps. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 18:00, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: I have no idea what that means but nothing about modern britain or it's govt fits anything that resembles "socialism" in any significant manner - fees and loans for students, PFI, Invasion of iraq etc etc. The current govt is actually further to the right in many ways that Mrs. T government! was Thatch a socialist! I think not! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 18:02, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: Similarly, our Conservative party is no longer traditional conservatism. Think two parties both using the same elastic ideologies to chase the same fickle voters and appeal to conservative and liberal alike and there you have recent British politics. No left or right, just two sets of "middle". --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 18:05, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
::::::Yep. I was just reading how Socialist leaders in Britian send their kids to private schools. Very similiar to American liberals -- who then give us the Cain vs Abel speil about getting even with the rich! [[User:RobS|RobS]] 18:21, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Which socialist leaders? You mean the leader of the socialist workers party? I doubt it. I'm really struggling to understand what's going on here - Britain does not have a socialist government and if the catholic thing is meant to be an indication of socialist discrimination then Mrs. Thatcher was a socialist because she did nothing about it either! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 18:25, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:Here. [http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1970902,00.html] At least now we know why Blair's popularity has shrunk; it's not the War in Iraq, it's all those compassionate liberals and socialists who found out he was thinking of converting to Catholicism. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/15/ncath15.xml] [[User:RobS|RobS]] 18:35, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

eh? Do you think this is a big issue in the UK? That someone is a catholic? Can I suggest in a friendly manner that maybe your understanding of the UK is slightly lacking and you are looking at it via the lens of the US? I'll leave it at that stage because you want the article to say that Britain is a socialist nation and as a sysop - well you win straight out of the box. --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 18:38, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
:It was somebody elses idea to trumpet the glories of British Socialism, whatever for. What is obvious from this is, Socialist do not care at all about equality and human rights. It's simply fraud to pretend that they do. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 18:46, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Thing is, we have no true socialist leaders or true conservatives anymore. Ideology is dead, long live chasing after anyone that will vote for you. And I come from a very long line of Catholics who were also passionate supporters of the NHS, minimum wages and other socialist ideals. I happen to be Christian and Conservative but there are many good Christians who hold to what are considered socialist values. Many many many shades of grey here. Very hard to pin down to a few neat paragraphs. One thing holds true though, New Labour are not and never were Socialist. This is why most of my extended family stopped voting Labour as they felt it was a betrayal of their values. --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 18:48, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::The only limitation that Blair would face if he became a Catholic would be that he would be unable to suggest the appointment of Bishops in the Church of England to the Crown. This restriction came about from the Catholic Relief Act of 1829, which repealed earlier laws outlawing Catholic participation in voting and government. There is also a law prohibiting the King or Queen from being a Catholic or married to a Catholic, the Act of Settlement of 1701. British anti-Catholic laws have nothing to do with Socialism or the Labour party, but instead are due to the English Civil War, the Restoration, and resistance by Protestant Britain to Catholic rule. The Act of Settlement and that provision of the Catholic Relief Act aren't still in force due to strong anti-Catholic sentiment in Britain, but just due to inertia and the fact that the law doesn't really come up. I don't think it's true to say that these restrictions have anything at all to do with socialism in Britain, either currently or historically.--[[User:Epicurius|Steve]] 18:50, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::This BBC article quotes Blair, "changing the law would be hugely complicated involving changes to nine different pieces of legislation." [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/529227.stm] [[User:RobS|RobS]] 19:13, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

We still have a great number of old laws that technically still apply (policemen in certain counties are still supposed to walk in the gutter for example) that no one adheres to, very few remember and no one cares to repeal due to the fact that they are archaic and pretty much forgotten. Hardly tantamount to discrimination, more a quirk of history. [[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 18:54, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:Right...that's my point. I'm agreeing with you. It's an old law that has never been changed because it's never been an issue.--[[User:Epicurius|Steve]] 19:02, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Would it be more correct to rephrase the final sentence in this article thus. "''In Britain, Catholics are discriminated against by being barred from holding certain offices associated with the post of Prime Minister. These offices can be renounced without any practical inhibition to the powers of the post, but no government, socialist or otherwise has done so since 1829."'' Or better yet, remove it. Or am I just tired from a long day down t'pit? --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 19:07, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
:Sounds good, but we should add, "a reform measure was voted down as recently as 1999." [[User:RobS|RobS]] 19:16, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
::Well, the 1999 reform measure you're citing doesn't have anything to do with religious restrictions of the Prime Minister...just religious restrictions for the monarch. But, still, I don't really see what this has to do with socialism.--[[User:Epicurius|Steve]] 23:52, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
:::It evidently isn't that easy. Blair says it affects nine pieces of legislation, some it appears affecting his office. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:08, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

If that is the case then please do. No shame in the truth providing all governments since 1829 share the blame equally. --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 19:20, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
:Go ahead and do it. That is indeed how a democracy works, even when socialists are dominant. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 19:47, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

My only issue with making these amendments to an article on Socialism is that, as all governments since 1829 are complicit in this lack of reform, it is no longer purely a Socialist issue and, as such, should have no place here. I'd like other people's views on this but, as it is not soley a Socialist failing, I think the entire reference to this Catholic discrimination should be removed. Other people, the floor is yours ; ) --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 19:56, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I think this section illustrates the folly of applying a US conservative-liberal axis to the political culture of other countries. There's an interesting article to be written about socialism in Britain but it doesn't belong in an article that puts anyone who supports universal health care in the same camp as Stalin and Hitler.--[[User:Jalapeno|Jalapeno]] 01:05, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
:Yes and no. It all depends on the conduct of the British Socialists. Name calling, and outrageous assertions can be a two way street. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 01:13, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Hang on a minute. The information about the Act of Settlement is correct, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Socialism. What on earth is it doing here? If nobody else removes it I will.

how are catholics discriminate against by labour? there are catholic schools funded by the state, the only part of the UK that discriminates against catholics is Northern Ireland and if you called men like paisley a socialist he'd knock your teeth out.[[User:Foxley|Foxley]] 15:18, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

:How many decades over the past century has the labour/left coalition dominated British politics? Why haven't they acted on this? Being the self-appointed defenders of the oppressed and against injustice, how come no one speaks up?

:We don't have to look far to see how deeply rooted and respectable anti-Catholicism is in British culture. Why, one of the ''Beatles'' greatest hits, ''Lady Madonna'' is a celebration of despicable anti-Catholic attitudes & stereotypes. And several Beatles have been, if recollection serves me correct, Knighted for their achievements and service. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:47, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

Right. Just one Beatle -- Paul -- has been knighted and both he and John Lennon were themselves raised as Catholics. I really don't think Lady Madonna can be seriously regarded as a criticism of ANYTHING.
:Read the lyrics. [http://www.lyrics007.com/The%20Beatles%20Lyrics/Lady%20Madonna%20Lyrics.html] George Harrison, too. John Lenin didn't live long enough, and everybody knows Ringo's a bit slow. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 17:48, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

:Facts are, for all criticism of the US, the treatment of Catholics, by law, in Great Britain, as second class citizens, or the open, naked prejudice and ridicule they suffer, would never ever be tolerated in the United States. And truth be told, there is anti-Catholic prejudice in the US, but nothing like the respectability it has gained over the centuries in Great Britain. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 17:54, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

What do you mean "George Harrison too"? Are you under some delusion that he, too, was knighted. You are wrong. All of them did, of course, get MBEs, though Lennon -- "Lenin"? Oh, you are SO witty -- returned his in protest at the Vietnam War. As for Lady Madonna, speaking as an Irish Catholic myself, I am flabbergasted that you could regard this as a recognisable criticism of that community.
:Read the lyrics. I was raised Catholic but left the Church many years ago. But I ''still'' get deeply offended by the blatant intent, and ridicule of the message in that song. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 12:15, 6 June 2007 (EDT)
::Paul McCartney, a lapsed Catholic, said he wrote ''Lady Madonna'' in response to seeing a photograph of a woman and child entitled ''Mountain Madonna''.[http://www.iamthebeatles.com/article1208.html] It's bizarre to read an anti-Catholic sentiment into that song -- it's an expression of sympathy for a struggling mother. In answer to an earlier question you posed Labour has governed the UK for about 30 of the last 100 years and has traditionally enjoyed strong support from Catholics[http://www.ipsos-mori.com/publications/rmw/the-catholic-vote.shtml]; The greatest opposition to changing the constitution to allow a Catholic monarch comes from traditionalist Conservatives who want to retain the privileges of the Church of England. --[[User:Jalapeno|Jalapeno]] 13:21, 6 June 2007 (EDT)
:::Sympathy? On what planet? ''Labour has governed the UK for about 30 of the last 100 years'' And we are really discussing Socialists here, and their record of being defenders of the "oppressed", and rectifying injustice. Even if it's only 30 years, what is the record of rectifying this injustice? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:01, 6 June 2007 (EDT)
::::Sigh.[http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/pm.htm] Catholics in Britain have traditionally favoured Labour for a number of reasons, not least of which is that Labour has been more sympathetic towards Nationalism and the Conservatives more sympathetic to Unionism -- it's more to do with green vs. orange than red vs. blue. Perhaps we could have a cite for the "oppression" that has somehow escaped the attention of those living in Britain who have contributed to this thread? --[[User:Jalapeno|Jalapeno]] 15:17, 6 June 2007 (EDT)
:::::Cough. Sneeze. [http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA992.htm][http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article512736.ece] Thank God she's not a Catholic. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 16:17, 6 June 2007 (EDT)

== DAB's version ==

DAB's version on 'succesful socialism' has already resisted 9 minutes. How long before a SysOp comes? I guess someone will be blocked for a long long time... (and no, I have no affiliation with DAB)[[User:Leopeo|Leopeo]] 13:38, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

== Let's not get carried away here, please ==
The picture at the very top of the page right away makes a direct visual attachment of communism and socialism as if they are one in the same. As the vast majority of editors and sysops here are quite cleary well educated people, I am shocked that the picture in question remains. Communism is not the equal of socialism, nor is the reverse true either. Communism is socialism taken to the far extreme. For example, Finland is socialist, but try labeling them communists and see what happens, lol... I'm all for removing that picture, and perhaps replacing it with something more indicative of socialism in general rather than Marxism/Leninism/Communism in specific. [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 16:35, 23 June 2007 (EDT)
:Oh, umhh, I see. Care to explain how [[Hitler]] was misunderstood, too? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 16:39, 23 June 2007 (EDT)
::Rob, he never said anything about "misunderstanding" the ideology. He made the valid point that socialism and communism are ''not'' the same thing. Canada, Finland, Sweden, etc. They are socialist, but ''not'' communist. Do you wish to dispute that? This conversation had nothing to do with Hitler. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Ĥøĵĭmåçħôńğ''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 16:50, 23 June 2007 (EDT)
:::Pardon me for not wading into a [[leftist]] ideological fever swamp, but I really don't care to decipher the degrees of complicity in [[democide]] based upon an avowed [[atheistic]] philosophy. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 18:05, 23 June 2007 (EDT)
::::So then don't contribute to the article. Your responses do not address the complaints, but rather your refusal to accept anything other than what you think you already know. Your defense for completely screwing up the distinction between two ideologies is a refusal to even ''attempt'' to understand the distinction. That makes ''perfect'' sense. I'd be glad to wade into that "leftist ideological fever swamp" for you, Rob, seeing how scared you are of it. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Ĥøĵĭmåçħôńğ''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 18:13, 23 June 2007 (EDT)
We are not in the position of advocating, defending, or apologizing for [[democidal]] ideologies. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 18:18, 23 June 2007 (EDT)
:No, we are in the position to write an '''encyclopedia article''' about them. And saying that communism and socialism are identical ideologies is completely false. Once again, you change your reasons for wanting to include the misleading picture. How is being factual "apologetic", "advocating for", or "defending" socialism? Are you suggesting we deliberatly mislead readers? And the ideology is not democidal. Last I heard, Canada, Finland, Sweden, etc. don't commit democide. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Ĥøĵĭmåçħôńğ''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 18:27, 23 June 2007 (EDT)

Quite so Ĥøĵĭmåçħôńğ. If I seek to distinguish between a shark and a barracuda I am not taking sides with either. Rob seems pathologically incapable of listening to reason and seems to view any considered response of this subject to be an act of Marxist-Leninist subversion. Ignore him.

RobS it appears you misunderstood what I was saying and clearly the fault is on me as I should have explained my position better.My apologies on giving the impression that I was apologizing for communism. Was not my intention. I think however you should really think about what Hojimachong is saying though, since he has explained it perfectly =) [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 23:33, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

:: I went ahead and removed the picture in question. I do apologize to you RobS however, in truth it was misleading and out of place. It would PERFECT for the article on Communism, or articles about the old Soviet Union and presently existing communist regimes. But this is the socialism page. Let me put it this way: Having that picture represent socilism in general is like making an article about the primary colors and only showing blue. It is misleading. But this is in no way a reflection of any supposed sympathy for communism in specific or even socialism in general. And as for democide, well, isn't that getting a bit off track? I know one of the key principles of communism is an athiestic society, but that's all part of the package, I don't see how making your major argument revolve around democide makes sense. Also, again, that's communist specific. There are SOCIALIST countries that are Christian by LAW, as a STATE RELIGION (something that America has avoided as we all know), regardless of the denomination. So applying democide to socialism is another exercise in ignorance. But I digress; I simply removed a misleading graphic. I would like to add something more illustrative of socialism in general, however while I could find such a thing, I sadly am not well versed in editing yet, specificaly when it comes to posting images. Yes, that IS a call for help by the way, =) [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 00:06, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
:::That's odd, I thought the name of the state Stalin & Lenin presided over was, "The Union of Soviet '''Socialist''' Republics, not "the Union of Soviet Communist Republics". I must have been sleeping in class again the day they set that straight, I guess. [[User:RobS|RobS]]
00:23, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

::::"What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell just as sweet," or in this case "would be just as red." hahaha, sorry, bad joke. But here is my response: That was simply a name. If I call a ka-bar a fluffy teddy bear, does that make it any less lethal a weapon? No. Granted, the USSR itself may not have been total communism, however it was far closer to communism than it was to the "ordinary" socialist idealology that spawned it. As I stated earlier, "socialism" is a generalism, while "communism," "USSR," etc. are specifics. If you're talking about a broad issue like socialism, it's not academically responsible to, whether accidently or otherwise, make the specific general broad issue appear to others as nothing more than one single specific. [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 00:38, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

If you have two children, and the children are quite different from one another in most respcts, but naturally they are both YOUR children, do you take any more pride in the one, than you do the other? Is socialism nothing more than communism that spawns from it? Of your two hypothetical children, does only one of them represent you? [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 00:43, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

::As a side note, I truly do believe in at least replacing that image, and I do notice it is back up, though I'd rather not take it back down again unless some sort of consensus is reached or I get solid support for my argument. I do not wish to be accused of starting an edit war or seem like I have a vendetta against RobS now :) [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 00:52, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
Also I am pleased to see the "different strands of socialism" section. I completely support that. The existence of that section lends even more to my argument that that graphic on the socialism article in general ought to be removed. The section listing different strands of socialism clearly indicates the author knows communism is not the entirety of socialism. So why the communist specific graphic? =)

Just to go back to socialism and atheism for a minute, while it's true that Marxist Communism certainly is atheistic, socialism isn't neccesarily. In fact, there was a strong Christian Socialist movement in Britain in the 19th century that helped lead to the British Labour party, and there was certainly a Jewish Socialist movement that contributed to the Zionist movement.--[[User:Epicurius|Steve]] 01:22, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

:Very good points Steve! [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 01:25, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

==Compromise?==
RobS, I would greatly apreciate it if you would take a look at my most recent edit. I didnot remove the graphic. I did however edit the text in the caption slightly, in that I added a bitmore detail which makes it less misleading, in my opinion, and I would greatly value your thoughts on this =) [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 04:53, 25 June 2007 (EDT) (anyone else reading also lol)

::Well scratch that. It seems Fox has provided a graphic that suits the article. Cheers to Fox, good find and good edit. [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 13:54, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

::RobS if you gave up debating I do not see the virtue in reverting Fox's edit. His picture makes much more sense than the previous. I reverted it back to HIS. You seem to want to cram your opinion down peoples's throats. On the other hand, Fox and I and many others would rather have this be accurate and academic. [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 02:46, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

:::I'm no supporter of Socialism by any means, but I genuinely feel this image is more illustrative for the article's subject, particularly as the main body sems to concentrate on British socialism. I know how easy it can be to choose an image to make a general point rather than to illustrate the point of the article - you should see the dozens of pics I'm itching to use to illustrate Israel's fight for survival - but I resist the temptation to use them because: we all accept that articles here are going to be representative of a broadly, if only small "c", conservatism, so using a soviet commie poster to illustrate the article is somewhat like cracking hazelnuts with a sledgehammer. Welded to an anvil. :D [[Image:User Fox.png]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 04:17, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

::::Agreed. That's how I felt on it. I'm not a supporter of socialism either, but I do support sticking to the point, rather than the point of view. [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 15:46, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

==Inaccurate==
The article currently lists Tony B.liar as the Prime Minister. [[Image:User Fox.png]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 19:08, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

*No points given for something that only happened earlier today, Fox! ROFL! We can change it when you know who the new man is, eh? --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 19:10, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
::LoL - I would have changed it, but it was protected. The new <strike>village idiot</strike> PM is [[Gordon Brown]]. [[Image:User Fox.png]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 19:47, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
:::Check your offline Yahoo's. --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 20:13, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

== Poor Move ==
I am saddened to see the page is locked for editing after being reverted back to misleading picture. This is quite unfortunate and I am afraid it will refelect poorly for CP. [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 19:02, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

== This article lacks a basic understanding of what socialism is ==

This article begins by stating.

Socialism is an economic system where the means of production are seized and monopolized by the government without compensation to the builders of the capital, and where investments, production, distribution, income, prices, and economic justice are administered by a government nomenklatura that regulate the transfer of money, goods (including capital goods), and services primarily through taxation and regularized and institutionalized aggressive coercion.

There are a number of things wrong with this. It seems like the author has failed to actually read socialist tracts. I will try to list most of the fallacies I see offhand.

1. "are seized and monopolized by the government" this phrase betrays a lack of knowledge about how socialism views the state. For example, "means of production" aren't seized, and cannot be seized. The worker is a human being not a commodity or "capital". As a human being he is a part of the state. Finally, Marxism actually is anti-state and in the culmination of the dialectical processes would lead to its removal. (Also, no mention of Hegelian dialectics are present in the article. This is a key point concerning socialism. To abandon the dialectic is similar to discussing Christianity without the crucifixion.)
:So the human being is an [[untermensch]], state property, and without rights, correct? [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
2. The authors seem to fail to realize that there are vast differences within socialism just as there are within Christianity e.g. Catholicism, Protestantism, Mormonism...etc each differing vastly but similar in appearance to an outsider.
:True; Jesse Jackson for example, may be described as a God-fearing Socialist. Problem is, we need more sources. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

::In Wikipedia one may find: ''Socialism refers to a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community for the purposes of increasing social and economic equality and cooperation. This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state... A diverse array of doctrines and movements have been referred to as "socialist." '' --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 01:53, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

::*Well, Wikipedia is never an acceptable source or citation at CP, so perhaps another definition can be found, Joaquín. --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|/Ṣρёаќǃ]] 06:31, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

3. The statement that "religion is the opium of the masses" is taken out of context. It wasn't meant to be a pejorative statement. The common misunderstanding of this quote is that religion is a tool used by the state to force an otherwise unruly population into line through fear, propaganda, religious mysticism, and thus religion is ultimately evil.
:So under this theory, the state gets people hooked on narcotics in order to control them. Thanks for clarifying that. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
The actual meaning is that religion is created by the people for the people as an expression of their desire for some form of justice in an evil world. This may be viewed through a Christian perspective of mankind longing for God and thereby creating rituals and religion etc.. to reach Him.
:Ok, so then Marxism or Socialism (or whatever code word you wish to use), Socialists seek to restrict the fundemental, God-given, [[human right]] of [[worship]]. Further, this an excellent example of [[leftist]]s seeking to impose ''their'' [[morality]] on the rest of us, is it not? [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
Really, the major lack of information concerning Hegel's influence and the respective influence of the French, Germans, and British on Marx as he lived throughout Europe in his formulation of his ideas (French utopianism etc...) suggest an overly simplified method of viewing socialism.
:Yes, I understand. It truelly is a more intellectual exercise than we give it credit for. [[Charles Manson]] wasn't much of an intellectual, but his recruiting talents and demonstrated abilities to persuade young minds would have made a valuable member of the [[nomenklatura]]. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
It is a multifaceted philosophy and this article does it great injustice by explaining it in terms you would have expected from a farmboy filled with American propaganda from the 1950s.
:Multifacted. Yes. Some advocate murder and lawlessness, others only certain degrees of it. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
Socialism does not necessarily attempt to create a manmade utopia atheistically (some forms have however). Instead, the historical process is viewed as evolving. Just as the Roman system of government worked better than the Greeks, and feudalism evolved from that. In turn industrialized capitalistic colonial government worked better than feudalism. None of these forms of government were perfect but in every case they were better (arguably worse depending on whose perspective you take.) Similarly, socialism is ultimately a democratic movement wherein the workers (i.e. the means of production) cease to be exploited by the privelaged classes.
:Marxist mumbo-jumbo. Feudalism was at one time the solution to mankinds problems of homelessness and unemployment, and other social problems. Conservapedia is not interested in spewing more Marxist trash to another generation. We need some straight forward reporting on human history. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
Also, one last misconception is that socialism is against private property or the earning of wages. It is quite the opposite small business men were sympathetically viewed by Marx as ultimately destroyed by the industry (Analogy: mom and pop stores being eaten by Walmart). Socialism is often viewed as a welfare state, but Marx's view was contrary to this. He viewed the owners of corporations etc... as those who benefited from the welfare of the production made by those who worked. Thus, the worker (means of production) produced and the owner (businessman) consumed.
:So we are back to the issue of [[Economic planning]]; yes, we are working on that. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
This article expresses a really uneducated opinion. I'm not claiming socialism is the greatest thing ever. I'm not denying communism and thus mass murders and authoritarian government came from it. But its a logical fallacy to claim that socialism is therefore wrong. Take the French Revolution. Maximillian Robespierre was a democrat and the revolution was a democratic one and yet it is known as the Reign of Terror. Is democracy evil? Also, consider Christianity and the crusades, the inquisition, the wars fought between the reformationists and the Catholics. Is Christianity therefore wrong?
:The revolution was democratic? Yes, and as our sources show, violating price controls set by economic planning boards was a capital offense warranting the guillotine. Glad to see democracy works. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
You do yourself and the reader great injustice. [[User:Jstanierm|Jstanierm]] 15:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
:Good luck, son. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:09, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

::I don't understand. Are you saying the French radicals in charge of the Reign of Terror were not liberals (in the international sense) who were in favor of a democracy as opposed to the monarchy? How novel and how very uninformed. [[User:Jstanierm|Jstanierm]] 16:21, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

::Please don't debate me within my own text it's hard to respond. Concerning the opium statement if you actually read my sentence I said that's the common misconception.
:::There's little evidence the French Revolution was "democratic;" it was a lynch mob that turned on each other. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:54, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
"So the human being is an [[untermensch]], state property, and without rights, correct?"

No that's incorrect Marx actually wrote of the end of the concept of statehood. I get the notion that you believe Communism is socialism and you have a limited understanding of what Marx wrote. Concepts such as government, statehood, etc.. are absent from socialism as a philosophy. [[User:Jstanierm|Jstanierm]] 16:26, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
:::Bukharin read Marx correct; he saw through the fraud. While I do not advocate or agree with Bukharin's philosophy, as an eyewitness, his historical reporting on Marx is accurate. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:54, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
You say I'm using code words. That would be similar to me denying Christianity on the grounds that I find the Pope offensive. When you claim that not all Christians are Catholics I accuse you of using propaganda and code words.

Please be a bit more rational. I am not a Marxist propagandist. I am a Christian. I feel like this article could use a little more truth in it and little less of the common American anti-communism uninformed dialogue in it. [[User:Jstanierm|Jstanierm]] 16:28, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
::What's so uninformed? Americans have stood on the sidelines and watched how Socialism has ravaged other contintents with [[democide]], and have clearly articlated a [[foreign policy]] to oppose it. Yes, Socialism has made vast inroads in the [[public school]]s, [[media]], entertainment, and [[law]]. But American foreign policy for decades has been fairly consistent in opposing it, despite opposition and subversion along the way. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:54, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

:::What are you talking about? Which continent was ravaged by SOCIALISM? SOCIALISM NOT COMMUNISM. THEY ARE DIFFERENT. READ A BOOK, PLEASE, AND LEARN A LITTLE. Are you talking about Europe and Canada? Two very SOCIALIST places, or are you talking about Russia and China two very COMMUNIST places.

:::The Reign of Terror was a DEMOCRATIC revolution. Communism came from socialism but it is NOT socialism. The Reign of Terror was founded on liberal ideas like anti-monarchy, freedom of speech, democracy, BUT IT WAS NOT DEMOCRACY. [[User:Jstanierm|Jstanierm]] 17:02, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

==British socialism==
The second paragraph of the British socialism section should be removed. It really has nothing to do with socialism (though some of it might be useful in a different article). Additionally the sentence describing how Catholics are barred from certain offices appears to be untrue, or at least misleading. The "offices" in question are the mostly ceremonial positions of Monarch and spouse. [[User:PortlyMort|PortlyMort]] 15:42, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
:oh, so you don't deny the existence of discriminatory laws? [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 15:50, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
::Other than barring a Catholic from becoming king or queen? I don't know of any. If there are point them out. In any case it has nothing to do with socialism. Put it in the [[United Kingdom]] article; I didn't notice it there. [[User:PortlyMort|PortlyMort]] 15:55, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
:::Dodi Fayed's kid could become king, but not Tony Blair's. In the US, this is not only unconstitutional, most living American's would be outraged at the even the suggestion of such a law. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:08, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
::::Again, WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH SOCIALISM? [[User:PortlyMort|PortlyMort]] 16:25, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
:::::What did the Socialist do to repeal this law when it was last taken up? [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:30, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
::::::"The Socialist"? Who might he be? In any case, the law has been on the books for 300 years, and in that time no party has repealed it (it's mostly a non-issue; neither Fayed's nor Blair's kids are going to become king, the Queen's kid will. He's an Anglican), should it be mentioned in the articles on Tories, Whigs, and the Britsh Liberal Party? How about every in the article on every Prime Minister ("Benjamin Disraeli did not repeal the Act of Settlement"; "Earl Grey did not repeal the Act of Settlement"; "Ramsay MacDonald did not repeal the Act of Settlement"...). According the the cited article "Mr Blair said altering the law would be a hugely complicated process involving changes to nine separate pieces of legislation. The government has already embarked on a heavy legislative programme with 28 bills to see through." If Prince William gets engaged to a Catholic I'll bet we'll see the issue taken up, but in the meantime it's a lot of work for a something that is not going to be an issue. And ''it has nothing to do with socialism''. It might be relevant in another article, but not this one. [[User:PortlyMort|PortlyMort]] 16:43, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
:::::::Blair's wife is Roman Catholic, and the kids are too as I understand. Fayed was a Muslim, and the child Princess Di was carrying at the time of her death would have a had a rightful claim to the throne under certain circumstnces.
:::::::The logic of your argument above appears quite anti-progressive, and [[reactionary]], does it not? [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 17:14, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
::::::::Hmmm. Perhaps it would help if you actually read what I wrote. But that might be too much to ask. Fayed and his offspring would have zero claim to the throne, nor does Blair's kids. None of that matters, in any case, as we're discussing the article, and the connection between the Act of Settlement and socialism, which is zero. I'm not sure what's "reactionary" about pointing that out. I'm not here to defend the Act of Settlement, or any other remnant of Britian's bygone era. Just explain its significance to this article. [[User:PortlyMort|PortlyMort]] 18:18, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
:::::::::We saw the same thing when Chuck remarried; the wedding was delayed because Parker-Bowles had at onetime been married to a Catholic. "Thank God she's not a Catholic" [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article512736.ece] How these Enlightened Socialists can look us straight in the eye, fail to condemn this hypocracy, shrug their shoulders and say there's nothing that can be done about it, I'll never understand. It all proves the point: Socialism stands for nothing but political opportunism. And if it something doesn't serve Socialists immediate politcal opportunism, like standing up for religious freedom and against religious bigotry, they fall back on reactionary arguments. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 12:23, 11 August 2007 (EDT)
:::::::::'''Bottom line''': Don't tell me Socialism stands for social progess, change, opposition to the exiting order, levelling the playing field, and against discriminition until British Socialists take on this issue. Absent that, Socialism is just a complete [[fraud]]. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 12:32, 11 August 2007 (EDT)

*See [[deceit]], Rob. You don't really expect to get a straight answer, do you? --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 18:19, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

== Just Plain Wrong ==

Socialism is an economic system where the means of production are seized and monopolized by the government without compensation to the builders of the capital, and where investments, production, distribution, income, prices, and economic justice are administered by a government nomenklatura that regulate the transfer of money, goods (including capital goods), and services primarily through taxation and regularized and institutionalized aggressive coercion.

This is the definition of COMMUNISM, not SOCIALISM. The writer of this article is laughably politicaly incoherent. (and the bias is thick enough to cut with a bundle of sticks tied to an axe)
:If you think you can do better, Silvanus, by all means do so...but don't make it hard on yourself by demeaning others. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 17:35, 14 November 2007 (EST)

::I think we have to distinguish between the various types of socialism, but this is not easy to do. Many partisans write about socialism as if their pet variety is the only (or main) kind.

::The kind which conservatives oppose is the totalitarian [[Communist]] type. But not every form of socialism is as bad as that. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 15:26, 4 January 2008 (EST)

:::Well, in the European tradition at least, communism has always been extremely distinct from socialism - perhaps this is not clear in the USA. For instance, the Labour Party has always been committed to democratic socialism, and was strongly critical of the USSR. It is self-evident that democratic socialism is hugely more widespread as a faith than communism in the present day, and has never implied totalitarianism - the Labour Party has traditionally been far more committed to freedom than the Conservatives here in the UK.

::::If there countries having a "socialist" system with less than totalitarian control, we can describe them also. I just thought it would be good to start by describing the Communist approach, since that is the model or ideal that most people look to when comparing [[capitalism and socialism]]. The Nazi variant permitted individual ownership, but [[von Mises]] says the results were similar because the state maintained price controls and so on.

::::We also need to distinguish between the economic aspects of socialism and the political aspects of "socialist" countries. For example, in Sweden people are allowed to emigrate, but in Cuba they are not. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 07:28, 3 April 2009 (EDT)

== Would like to add a paragraph about my country (Norway) ==

If its all the same to you I'd like to write about our system wich is currently socialist-democratic. Then again most of our parties are socialist to some degree. Any objections?

Also, the article seems to have mixed up communism with socialism. I assure you, socialism in this day and age bears a much stronger resemblance to the US govermental system than the dictatorship that was soviet russia.

LOL this again. [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 15:35, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:Can you be more specific? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 15:42, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Also Add Ethiopia ==

Someone needs to add Ethiopia to this article as Ethipia used to be socialist. Also, include the Ethio-Somalia War.

==Liberal propaganda about Chile==

Removed from article:

:In the first year of Allende's, the economic policy showed decidedly positive results, including a 12% industrial growth an 8.6% increase in GDP, as well as major declines in inflation (down from 34.9% to 22.1%) and unemployment (down to 3.8%). However, these gains were only temporary due to American intervention. American copper interests in Chile, which controlled 80% of Chile's copper production, reacted violently to Allende's nationalization. The United States set about placing an economic stranglehold on Chile designed to, in a famous quote by Richard Nixon, "make the (Chilean) economy scream". Classified documents have also revealed the extent of the United States' involvement in the 1973 coup d'etat that overthrew Allende, installing and supporting dictator [[Augusto Pinochet]] in power. Pinochet is known to have detained and tortured thousands of domestic dissidents by its secret police.[http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm]

This is a typical kind of one-sided argument. The point being made is that Chile was doing fine under Allende until the US helped Pinochet thwart his "reforms". Actually, Allende was trying to make Chile like Cuba, and Pinochet stopped Allende's attack on Chile's economic and political freedom.

We need to cover all this in [[History of Chile]]. Perhaps, like Wikipedia, we should also create a [[1973 Chile coup]] article. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 09:20, 3 April 2009 (EDT)

*Pinochet loyalists ... still revered him for implementing the macroeconomic reforms, which eventually raised the standards of living nationwide.
*Pinochet lost power in a renewal of democratic elections. [http://nylatinojournal.com/home/eagles_in_fall,_lions_in_spring/analysis/a_divided_chile_contemplates_pinochet_s_passing.html]

There's a [[Chile: Two Visions|book]] which covers the mess Allende made of the economy:
:This book is a study of Chile's turbulent recent history. It covers Salvador Allende's socialist revolution and explains how it sank Chile into chaos, economic deprivation, political turmoil, and illegality. It covers Chileans' repudiation of the Allende government three years later and their call to the military to intervene after the August 1973 congressional censure of Allende failed to stop Allende or convince him to resign.
:By winter 1973, Chileans were desperate, as famine loomed in Chile and disorder reigned in the streets. Allende's government had so destroyed the productive apparatus that on Sept. 6, 1973, President Allende announced: "We do not have the most minimal supply of flour, at most for three or four days." [http://www.policyofliberty.net/HPdA/RobertsAraujo.html]

Even the ultra-Liberal [[NPR]] agrees that Allende was botching things up:
*Allende was implementing socialist economic policies in Chile, with disastrous results. Gen. Pinochet finally agreed with other military officers that they had to stop Allende . . . [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6606013]

Liberals never fail to label Allende "democratically-elected", but he got less than a majority of the vote and:

:the Chilean parliament denounced Allende for abrogating the Chilean constitution. [http://www.vdare.com/roberts/050607_guilty.htm]
::Remind me, who was it sent the tanks onto the streets and the planes into the air to overthow a democratically elected Government? Pinochet or Allende? And which major superpower supported that overthrow? [[User:BrianTS|BrianTS]] 10:12, 3 April 2009 (EDT)

:::If you're not going to read the references or respond to what I actually wrote, then you should limit your comments to our [[debate pages]]. This page is for improving the article. Try [[Debate:When is revolution justified?]] or something like that. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 10:19, 3 April 2009 (EDT)

==Grammatical Edit and Rebuttal==
I made a small grammatical edit and included a brief rebuttal of pro-socialist sentiments expressed in "Controversy" section. [[User:JeffC|JeffC]] 23:38, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

:You thought the article was pro-socialist? Please don't revert the edits of Administrators, that is against our policy, JeffC. There were paragraphs removed, so it captured my attention. Please explain further. --[[User:TK|'''₮K''']]/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 23:47, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

::I didn't remove any content. The 'controversy' section offers some brief pro-socialist nonsense that I thought could use a short rebuttal to support the overall message of the article. I apologize for reverting your edit. If you have time, please review the content I added and re-revert if appropriate. Thanks! [[User:JeffC|JeffC]] 23:57, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

:::Since the piece is mainly Richard's now, I have asked him look into this. Thanks for explaining, JeffC! --[[User:TK|'''₮K''']]/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 00:08, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

== Need section on Socialistic Democracy ==
Democratic socialism and socialistic democracy is not the same, you should also represent the economic system which is used in Scandenavia, you know, that region in Europa which wasn't so heavily beaten by the global financial crisis.--[[User:Nabroon|Nabroon]] 15:05, 14 May 2009 (EDT)
:If there is a difference between the two systems, as you indicated, could you add a brief definition here, and then do a more detailed separate article on the subject? [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 16:01, 14 May 2009 (EDT)

== So close to communism? ==

I fail to see why this article consistently equates socialism with communism when communism was simply an offshoot of socialist ideals.
Is it really necessary to make them sound as though they are the same? They ''are'' different ideoligies. {{unsined|Guardian}}

:Keep denying they are the same ideology, when in fact they are not opposing. The Union of Soviet '''Socialist''' Republics would promote what system?--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 12:07, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

::To be fair to the first post I have to admit he is right the Soviet Union was a communist system. Though it was based off socialism. The idea that it ineviatably leads to communism is slightly absurd considering countries like Canada and Portugal have socialist systems in place such as their healthcare and education systems. {{unsigned|Era3344}} --14:05, 10 June 2009

:::You are making a false flag argument, and you know it. The Soviet Union sprang full-born as a Communist nation. All experience has shown, as is the case here in the U.S., and Canada where you purportedly live, once entitlements are foisted on the citizenry, the demand for them never slacks, and deceitful politicians soon realize offering them is key to being re-elected. It is a downward spiral that can lead nowhere other than a Communist or totalitarian state. Because once the pockets of the citizens are emptied, the state must somehow provide more and more, and that can only be sustained for so long, as we saw in the case of the Soviet Union, and more recently in China, which has been forced to allow quasi-capitalism to generate the huge sums of money needed for entitlements. That process with the Soviet Union took over 75 years until it collapsed. --[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 18:31, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

::::As offensive as I find your attack on my nationality I'll let it slide. You are once again leaving the socialist theory out of the equation and instead rushing into full blown communism. Your argument is fundamentally wrong on so many levels. In Canada the theory of collectivisation(not the Soviet model but simply a manner of spreading the wealth one of the many ideas in Socialism) in our NDP party is put forward as their election platform. They have never once won an election. Our Conservative party and Liberal party borrows from those ideals however, and they have each managed to win a fairly even number of elections based on some socialist propositions, which I must add are very usefull to my life. Your assumption that this loose set of ideals unfailingly leads to communism is not only factually wrong but a misrepresentation of the facts. {{unsigned|Era3344}}

''Attack on your nationality?'' Really? Where was that? Godspeed to you! --[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 22:09, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

==Sliding toward Socialism==
As we see America increasingly moving toward secular socialism, i was surprised not to see a section addressing such here, or an internal link to the page that does. I would like to add a word and link to a possible recent development on that front, that of the ability to regulate even gardnens. http://wholefoodusa.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/feds-to-license-home-breadmaking-and-garden-sales/ Also, while it is good to distinguish between the form of what is often termed socialism in the Bible (which, while not being a which static form, was an effect and manifestation of liberated, secure souls surrendered to Christ) versus its secular counterpart (which is driven by insecurity), the cause of the latter kind of socialism might be addressed. Finally, under Leninism, the sentence, "Conservatives have been very hostile", which looks lie an interpolation, ought to be qualified. I might be considered a liberal in Red China.[[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 16:33, 4 August 2009 (EDT)[[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 16:33, 4 August 2009 (EDT)
*''...what is often termed socialism in the Bible...
:Got my [[Concordance]] here, can't find the word "socialism" anywhere in Greek or Hebrew. Are you sure you are not quoting some commie rot from somewhere, rahter than the [[Bible]]? TY [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 16:54, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

::Note my words, "what is often termed socialism". As the article manifests, socialism is not strictly defined, nor do we need a precise term in the Bible for concepts it describes, from a Theocracy to the Trinity, and the concept of "equal distribution of goods among the people" and related aspects the article notes, is seen in Acts 2:44-47; 4:32-37, though that was critically different from socialism in its classic manifestations. The article (which was not any of my work) also basically notes the reason why what we see in Acts could NOT take place under Communists, nor will it under our present (US) President, or any such. However, while the spirit of the surrender and benevolence seen in the primitive church is to be a constant, that form of it was not, as believers are evidenced to have their own houses, and goods, and to practice capitalism, out of which they voluntarily and sacrificially gave. (1Cor. 11:22; 10:6; 16:14,15,40; 17:5; 21:8; 1Tim. 6:17-19; Acts 18:3)

::The key was that they in giving, "first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God", (2 Cor 8:5) with their submission to leaders not being that of implicit trust in men, but to brethren who manifested they were bound by the Word of God, and required no more of others than what their sacrificial submission to Christ required, in accordance with sound doctrine by the Spirit of Christ. Lenin, etc. do no fit in such holy ranks, and i come too short myself.[[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 17:48, 4 August 2009 (EDT)
:::What does "equal distribution of goods" have to do with [[mass murder]]? Oh, I see; after the [[national socialists]] exterminated people, they allowed the prisoners who burned the corpses to loot thier luggage and belongings. Thanks. [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 18:17, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

::::You got it.[[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 19:14, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

== Main Image ==

Im just wondering why this picture is on a page about socialism when the caption reads Leninism. If no one minds I would like to remove it in order to find a better image.
::I fixed it. [[User:RJJensen|RJJensen]] 15:17, 14 October 2009 (EDT)
Thank you kindly.

Could we perhaps use a different picture? This one seems to have no bearing on the article itself. Perhaps if we used the Red Flag as is common we could have a better base for people to understand the article. If we move the Main image down in the article it would have much more meaning. I'm going to try it out. Tell me what you think. --[[User:Matthew2208|Matthew2208]] 22:48, 8 December 2009 (EST)
::good move--looks better there. :) [[User:RJJensen|RJJensen]] 23:15, 8 December 2009 (EST)
::: Thank you :) However I'm having trouble inserting the photo I want for the main image. Its being very uncooperative. I have it saved but it just won't convert to how I want it too. Any suggestions? --[[User:Matthew2208|Matthew2208]] 18:24, 9 December 2009 (EST)

A new image would probably be best. Possibly Karl Marx or Lenin or even a picture of the book the Communist Manifesto.

==Weasel words==

* but all of them are built on the premise that social control of the means of production ensures that a community's resources are used in a positive and uplifting manner.

I don't know what "social control" and "community" mean in this context, but it sounds like an assertion that under socialism ordinary members of society would run the economy, rather than (A) big, wealthy, unapproachable self-centered capitalists or (B) big, powerful, unapproachable, corrupt politicians. However, the 2 next examples specify government control, not some small "community". There is a mention (but not an example) of small communities.

Note that the Shakers succeeded, because they had a religious motive, while the leftist experiments failed. This might be significant. Perhaps there are limits on the size of a socialist community, or maybe socialism cannot succeed on a longterm basis without a religious reason for people to want to own all things in common. (My own opinion is that any unit larger than a family will have trouble; a [[family business]] is sustainable.) A monastery or convent can be self-supporting, but it requires new members from outside if all are sworn to celibacy.

A lot of these weasel-word stuff seems designed to hide the fact that socialism is unsuccessful.

Note: We need to see if Sweden is an exception, or if (like NZ and USA) socialist ideas are gradually ruining free economies. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 08:12, 5 February 2010 (EST)

==Promise and practice==

We need to compare the socialist promise of an economy that run for the benefit of the vast majority of the people rather than for a small [[ruling class]] with the actual results of putting [[socialist]] ideas into practice, in various places.

I don't think socialists will cooperate with this. They do not want to compare their theory to reality, because they would then have to admit their mistakes. Conservatives, at least in the USA, are willing to admit their mistakes, learn from them, and adjust their policies.

Socialists have used tricky words, often with imprecise or shifting definitions, to conceal the contradictions between promise and practice. Let's expose this. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 09:06, 5 February 2010 (EST)

== India is not in the list? ==

Hey people! India is a socialist country. How can you ignore india?

(The preamble of the Indian constitution defines India as a sovereign, socialist, secular, democratic republic.)

== You seem confused - perhaps I have not understood you... ==

It seems that the article maintains that Socialism is a bad thing - however the current economic conditions whereby the banks and big business (i.e. GM) is maintained by a nationalized system of state ownership. This means that the article maintains socialism is a bad thing only insofar as it does not benefit the 'meek' but only the wealthy and greedy. The previous Conservative Government even set in motion policies to protect inefficient companies such as General Motors on the principle that the markets were best served by the long-term initiatives of the state - wholly outside of the free market capitalist economics, which this site professes to support.

Most of the Conservative right seems to advocate that Wall Street is negative however the whole body of the economic system is based on the speculative risk taking economic practice, which supposedly is wholly different and not dependent on the 'real economy’ that is symbiotic with it. In essence the article contradicts itself - on one hand advocating minimal government involvement and absolute faith in the free market whilst slamming down the 'socialist' economic practice it ultimately has to turn to at some level when this fails. The fallacy exists not in socialist dogma, but in the belief that capitalism works despite clear signs that it does not and repeatedly so in the past.

We can simply look today that despite superpower status, the notable decline in US power next to China - a planned economy with limited market freedom, and this is being felt worldwide. The colossal national debts suggest that capitalism is anything but efficient and very far from a utopian ideal which much of the conservative line paints.

I'm curious to know what your opinions are, or are it possible I have been mislead, or vice versa?--[[User:Sycamore|Sycamore]] 12:26, 1 September 2010 (EDT)
:Socialism is a bad thing. When you have a political philosophy that strips away the human dignity; when you have conduct by others who say what you create belongs to the state and not yourself; when you have substandard medical care paid for by heavy taxation; when you have a majority of Americans being forced to pay for those who refuse to fend for themselves, that's socialism. And all that's needed is guns in their hands, and we have either communism or nazism, depending on the dictator that liberals these days seem to love. You have nothing, Sycamore, which can tell any of us that socialism is a good thing. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 13:07, 1 September 2010 (EDT)
::Some of the reply makes sense, but I'm still confused as you haven't said much on my comment - if I want to love my neighbor surely it is wrong to tell them to 'fend for themselves' - also if I pay high taxation, is it not better that this money tries to help vulnerable people as opposed to the state paying for those that 'fend for themselves' as we have today. I'm not trying to be difficult or to upset you, but you you seem to have two opinions which don't fit together:)--[[User:Sycamore|Sycamore]] 13:14, 1 September 2010 (EDT)

:::I see a good debate starting here, but too much of it is S and K talking past each other. I want both of you to reply to each other's points before making any additional points of your own. "Seek first to understand, than to be understood" (see [[Stephen Covey]]). --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 18:01, 1 September 2010 (EDT)
::::Perhaps "S & K" could create a debate page and save the rest of us "S's" liberal ranting? --<big>[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]</big>/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 18:44, 1 September 2010 (EDT)
:::::Come on, TK look on the bright side. We could throw a little party for the 1,000,000th time a lib has regaled us with the "glorious benefits" of socialism! [[User:KyleDD|KyleDD]] 18:53, 1 September 2010 (EDT)
LOL! Somehow, Kyle, I doubt that many of the 100,000+ distinct users coming to CP daily care..... ;-) --<big>[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]</big>/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 19:04, 1 September 2010 (EDT)

'''Socialism'''
This article needs some serious work. First off anything to do with the NAZI party needs to be removed as it has nothing to do with Socialism.

Key Points of socialism to consider:

Removal of class systems.
Removal of Private ownership, everything is owned by everyone.
Removal of Government after a period of stability.

Basically read the communist manifesto as that is what socialism is.

== National Socialism has nothing to do with socialism ==

National Socialism (like the German nazi party) has its roots in fascism, biological racism and antisemitism, not Socialism. It was in fact meant to oppose Socialism and Communism. Please remove every and all references to Hitler, Nazi's and National Socialism and provide actual facts.{{unsigned}}
:Is this the old "national socialism has nothing to do with socialism" debate? Just what does [[Marlene Dietrich]] mean in the movie, ''Judgement at Nuremberg'', when she tells Spencer Tracy the story of the Nazi judge who insulted Hitler to his face by saying, "Chancellor, I do not object so much that you are so ill-mannered. [http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/j/judgment-at-nuremburg-script-transcript.html I object that you are such a bourgeois]"? (beginning at [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXh6uC_a0P0&feature=related about 5:01 in the youtube clip]) [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 19:22, 27 January 2012 (EST)

== Socialism, Communism, Totalitarism, etc. ==

I just reverted a blanking of this page. Then I started to read it - perhaps we are better of with a blanked page?

''"Because many businesses still are privately owned, ipso facto, the United States is not a socialistic government. ''" The same was true for Nazi Germany, so applying this logic, [[Hitler]]'s dictatorship wasn't socialistic: obviously the control of a [[Kriegswirtschaft]] wasn't to Misis's taste, but it is not untypical in such a situation....

In fact it is questionable to lead the article with national-socialism as the main example - and a picture of Adolf Hitler. A reader should be informed about the typical aspects at first: and classifying Nazi Germany as socialistic is at best debatable. Yes, it is in the name - but was the [[German Democratic Republic]] a democracy?

[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 12:53, 17 June 2012 (EDT)

==Please remove picture of Hitler==

Adolf Hitler was not a socialist. This is just simply not true. Please remove the large picture of Hitler, it does not reflect socialism in any way.

I agree that this picture should be replaced with someone else who is a truly representative icon within the socialist movement. While Hitler may indeed have been a socialist as his party's name suggests, unless i'm mistaken, aside from his party, no socialist considers him to be to be representative of their philosophy. So it would indeed seem at the very least inappropriate to use his picture to be representative of all socialism. From what i've read socialists are a diverse group that even has Christian, Jewish, Islamic sections. This picture, at best, makes us look like we're using Nazi Imagery to demonize a particular philosophy, at worst makes us look childish. I suggest we replace this picture with either a historical or contemporary icon for the good of the project. I would do it myself, but I'm a novice at wikia editing and I think the admins would never tolerate such a change. [[user:dsherman]]
::Adolf Hitler was the head of the National''' <big>Socialist</big>''' German Workers Party. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:45, 2 March 2013 (EST)
:::Gonna need better evidence than that Conglomerate:Conservative. After all, North Korea calls itself the '''''Democratic''' People's '''Republic''''' ''of Korea'', which it is neither. East Germany was called the German Democratic Republic, again having neither a democratic nor republican form of government. --[[User:DonnyC|DonnyC]] 21:17, 2 March 2013 (EST)
::::Donny got in ahead of me but I'll put it forward anyway...... Cons; if you believe that the German Nationalist Socialist Workers Party was socialist, then you must also believe as August said above - that East Germany's "German '''Democratic''' Republic" was democratic; as are North Korea: a People's ''Democratic'' Republic and one of the Congos which at least leaves out the "People's" in its monicker. And you must believe that China's "'''People's''' Liberation Army" belongs to the people and so on. You can't have it both ways. I won't start on the use of the word, "Christian". [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 21:25, 2 March 2013 (EST)
::::::Germaine [[Ludwig von Mises Institute]] material was cited which fully supports the contention. There is no higher material for a conservative capitalist! If you doubt me, ask [[Michelle Bachmann]]! Michelle Bachmann brings von Mises to the beach! See: [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304259304576375491103635726.html I bring von Mises to the beach]. I hope that clarifies things. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 22:35, 2 March 2013 (EST)

: But Cons. What do ''you'' think? I don't want you to answer me by quoting someone else - no doubt carefully picked - from your online fount of selective knowledge. I want to know what you believe from your own life's experience. If you have any. (In other words, young fella, you haven't answered the question.)[[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 23:17, 2 March 2013 (EST)
Socialists always often try to deny one of their biggest failures - Adolf Hitler. Setting aside leftist denialism, however, this tail is firmly pinned on the socialist donkey. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:00, 3 March 2013 (EST)
:Why go through the hassle of presenting a valid case when you can make use of [[deceit|unsubstantiated]] [[claptrap|assertions]] instead? :) --[[User:DonnyC|DonnyC]] 00:39, 3 March 2013 (EST)
::Answer the question, Cons. Stop staying off subject. I'll copy and paste it back down for you... ''"Cons; if you believe that the German Nationalist Socialist Workers Party was socialist, then you must also believe as August said above - that East Germany's "German '''Democratic''' Republic" was democratic; as are North Korea: a People's ''Democratic'' Republic and one of the Congos which at least leaves out the "People's" in its monicker. And you must believe that China's "'''People's''' Liberation Army" belongs to the people and so on. You can't have it both ways."'' '''Why do you say Nazi "socialism" is true but deny the "democratic" others?''' [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 00:55, 3 March 2013 (EST)
They not only said they were socialists, but the von Mises people confirm it with germaine evidence and argumentation.[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 02:17, 3 March 2013 (EST)
:Cons. Cons! You still don't .... never mind. It's like arguing with a kitten. They never stay on subject either. Look, I want to know whether you have a thought of you own; one that is not part of a website chosen because it agrees with an opinion you have gained from another website that....and so on. You know what I mean? And yes, Cons. I know what "germaine" means. Oh, and by the way - I am not a socialist.[[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 02:42, 3 March 2013 (EST)
I don't see much difference between communism/fascism in practice. And liberalism generally leads to one of these forms of government: socialism/fascism "lite"/fascism/crony capitalism/bankrupt governments/communism/etc. They all want big government. See: http://conservapedia.com/Similarities_between_Communism,_Nazism_and_liberalism Biblical Christianity leads to freedom and the benefits of freedom.[http://www.hulu.com/watch/442918] [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 03:14, 3 March 2013 (EST)
:Have you finished yet? I keep getting an edit conflict as you fiddle around with your edit.....
:Cos! You're still at it. See this site, see that. Cons, I hate Fascism and I hate Communism. There may be the odd liberal that agrees with Communism but I have never met one and I bet I've played with, worked with, sung with, travelled with, met, drunk with, and generally interacted with more liberals than you've had cooked dinners. (And that's not counting the women.) I have, however, met the odd right wing wierdo that still considers Hitler the ant's pants. And believe me - they weren't liberals! [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 03:39, 3 March 2013 (EST)
::Good night, Cons. [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 04:06, 3 March 2013 (EST)
:::Liberalism is the road to economic ruin and the Eurozone crisis, European aging populations being overrun by ungovernable and rioting Muslim immigrants and Western governments buried in debt is proof of this. The liberal system is rickety and heading for significant trouble. It wouldn't surprise me if some wars were eventually ignited because of it.

:::The financial reckoning of liberalism will soon come. List of world's biggest debtor nations: http://www.cnbc.com/id/30308959 You will probably see this within your lifetime.

:::Hitler came to power as a result of spiritual, moral and financial bankruptcy. Liberalism appears to be heading farther and farther down that road. And the countries external debt to GDP ratios listed on that website is one piece of evidence that liberal governments have been heading in the wrong direction. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 04:49, 3 March 2013 (EST)

Before getting into this debate, I'd just like to announce that DonnyC's incivility on this talk page has managed to incur him yet another block. Due to his past litany of offenses (see his block log) he's suspended for a month, and I would have given him a lifetime ban if it hadn't been for the fact that two of his ardent patrons are endowed with blocking rights and can therefore revert my decisions.

Anyway... the conservative philosopher [[John Locke]] (whose writings had tremendous influence on the founding fathers) saw the rights to liberty and property as flowing from a man's right to his life; therefore attacks on one's property and liberty are attacks on life as well. To quote from his ''[http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtr03.htm Second Treatise of Civil Government]'':

"it being reasonable and just, I should have a right to destroy that which threatens me with destruction: for, by the fundamental law of nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred: and one may destroy a man who makes war upon him, or has discovered an enmity to his being [...] And hence it is, that he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power, does thereby put himself into a state of war with him; it being to be understood as a declaration of a design upon his life: for I have reason to conclude, that he who would get me into his power without my consent, would use me as he pleased when he had got me there, and destroy me too when he had a fancy to it [...] This makes it lawful for a man to kill a thief, who has not in the least hurt him, nor declared any design upon his life, any farther than, by the use of force, so to get him in his power, as to take away his money, or what he pleases, from him; because using force, where he has no right, to get me into his power, let his pretence be what it will, I have no reason to suppose, that he, who would take away my liberty, would not, when he had me in his power, take away every thing else." [it should be noted though that the Locke didn't believe that citizens of states have the right to judge and punish thieves by themselves. Only people living in the state of nature have that right. For more about that concept read the [http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtr02.htm first chapter] of his ''Second Treatise''.]

So the bolshevik unjustified taking of private property was an attack on life just the same as the Holocaust. The Nazis were socialists just like the bolsheviks, Idi Amin and Pharaoh Ramses. Nobody who lives under a dictatorship can really be said to have private property. Sure, in some dictatorship there are businessmen and industrialists and entrepenuers, but they do not really own the property the use to make a living, as the government can take it away from them at any given moment.

Furthermore, just like the bolsheviks plundered the private property of their sucjects, so did the Nazis plundered the property of many of their victims. See: [http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%202277.pdf] [http://www.archives.gov/research/holocaust/records-and-research/documenting-nazi-plunder-of-european-art.html] - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 07:39, 3 March 2013 (EST)

:"So the bolshevik unjustified taking of private property was an attack on life just the same as the Holocaust." Apart from being a non sequitur, that is a bizarre trivialization of the Holocaust. You can't compare unjustified taking of private property with the organized killing of six million Jews. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 14:00, 3 March 2013 (EST)

::What non sequitur are you talking about? I already explained how attack on property is the same as an attack on life. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 14:04, 3 March 2013 (EST)

:::You didn't ''explain'' anything, you merely ''quoted'' John Locke. And I repeat: losing one's property doesn't compare to being killed by the Nazi killing machinery. It amazes me that I should have to point that out. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 14:22, 3 March 2013 (EST)

Mark 9-16 (Translated)

2013-03-03T19:04:57Z

Onestone:

==Chapter 9==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
|Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, there are some of you standing here who will live to see the kingdom of God come with power."
|Jesus refers here to the founding of the Church, which truly begins with the events of Acts 2:1-4.
|-
|2
|And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
|Six days later, Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up into a high mountain, and was transfigured before them.
|Or literally, "metamorphized."
|-
|3
|And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
|His clothing became dazzling white, whiter than snow, whiter than any launderer on earth could make them.
|This is about perfection beyond what mere humanity can achieve.
|-
|4
|And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
|And they saw [[Elijah]] and [[Moses]] talking with Jesus.
|And they saw [[Elijah]] and [[Moses]], and they spoke with Jesus. your previous translation could be taken as the disciples spoke with Jesus, the KJV version |suggests that Elijah and Moses spoke with Jesus.
|-
|5
|And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
|Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us make three tents for the blessed, one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
|Where is the phrase "for the blessed" coming from in this verse?
|-
|6
|For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
|For he did not know what he was saying, so nervous were they.
|They were afraid, but not as one is afraid of a fire or an animal, but as anyone is afraid of something larger than himself. In addition, Peter was speaking without thinking, as usual.
|-
|7
|And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
|Now a cloud came and cast a shadow all around, and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is my beloved Son. Listen to Him!"
|
|-
|8
|And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
|Then suddenly, when they looked around them, they could not see a single person, except Jesus and themselves.
|
|-
|9
|And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
|As they came down the mountain, He asked them not to tell anyone what they had seen until He, the [[Son of Man]], had risen from the grave.
|
|-
|10
|And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
|Indeed, they kept his secret, but asked each other what such a resurrection would entail.
|
|-
|11
|And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
|Then they asked Jesus, "Why do the scribes say that Elijah will come first?"
|
|-
|12
|And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
|He responded, "It is true that Elijah must come first to restore everything. Likewise, it is written that the Son of Man must suffer a great deal and be regarded as worthless."
|Mere "despising" doesn't express the Greek roots of this word, which include the word for "nothing" or "nobody."
|-
|13
|But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.
|"But Elijah has already come, and the elite did to him whatever they wanted, as was prophesied."
|Clarifying "they" (Herod et. al)
|-
|14
|And when he came to his disciples, he saw a great multitude about them, and the scribes questioning with them.
|Returning to His students, he found an enormous crowd gathered around them, with the scribes interrogating them.
|
|-
|15
|And straightway all the people, when they beheld him, were greatly amazed, and running to him saluted him.
|Immediately the whole crowd, seeing Jesus, ran to greet Him, amazed by His presence.
|Elizabethan English used "salute" even to mean "greet" as one civilian to another.
|-
|16
|And he asked the scribes, What question ye with them?
|Jesus demanded of the scribes, "What are you asking the people about?"
|
|-
|17
|And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
|But a man from the crowd ran forward and said, "Lord, I've brought you my son, who has a demon of dumbness."
|Even the KJV had some gender-neutral verbiage
|-
|18
|And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
|"And wherever the demon takes him, he claws at himself, foams from the mouth, grinds his teeth, and his body wastes away. I asked Your students to exorcise him, but they couldn't."
|
|-
|19
|He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
|Jesus responded, "You faithless generation, how long can I be with you? How long will I put up with you? Bring your son to Me."
|
|-
|20
|And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
|They brought him. The demon, seeing Jesus, immediately threw the boy to the ground, where he flailed about, and foamed.
|
|-
|21
|And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
|Jesus asked the father, "How long has this afflicted him?" "Since he was a child", the man replied.
|
|-
|22
|And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
|"Sometimes the demon throws him into the fire, other times into water in order to kill him. If it is true that you can do anything, please have compassion on us and help."
|
|-
|23
|Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
|Jesus observed, "If you can believe; anything is possible to the believer."
|
|-
|24
|And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
|The father cried out, tears filling his eyes, "I believe, Lord. Help my lack of faith!"
|The word used is '''απιστια''' (''apistia''), which specifically means "not believing."
|-
|25
|When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
|When Jesus saw the crowd of people running together, He scolded the evil spirit, telling him, "You deaf and mute spirit, I order you to leave him alone, and never to bother him again".
|
|-
|26
|And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
|The spirit cried out and exited him violently. The boy looked so much like he was dead, that bystanders declared, "He's dead!"
|
|-
|27
|But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.
|But Jesus took his hand and pulled him up, and he stood up.
|
|-
|28
|And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
|When Jesus went indoors, His students privately asked him, "Why couldn't we cast him out?"
|
|-
|29
|And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
|He told them, "That kind of spirit can only be driven out by prayer."
|Some, but not all, manuscripts add "and fasting."
|-
|30
|And they departed thence, and passed through Galilee; and he would not that any man should know it.
|They moved on, passing through Galilee; Jesus kept a low profile.
|
|-
|31
|For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
|He taught His students, saying, "The Son of man shall be betrayed to men who shall murder him, but afterward he shall rise on the third day."
|
|-
|32
|But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
|The students did not understand this, and were afraid to ask Jesus.
|
|-
|33
|And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?
|They arrived in Capernaum, where as soon as they had gone into a house Jesus asked His students, "What were you arguing about on the highway?"
|
|-
|34
|But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
|But they were too ashamed to answer because they had been debating who was the greatest among them.
|
|-
|35
|And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.
|Jesus sat down and summoned the Twelve, saying, "If anyone wants the highest rank, then he must first become the lowest of all, waiting on all."
|The word used is '''διακονος''', meaning one who waits on tables. This prefigures the appointment of the first [[deacon]]s.
|-
|36
|And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,
|Jesus then invited a child to join them, and after taking him in His arms, Jesus declared,
|The Greek '''παιδιον''' is neutral, not masculine or feminine. This might explain why the [[NAB]] uses the pronoun "it" instead of "him" here.
|-
|37
|Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
|"Whoever welcomes such a child in My Name, welcomes Me; and whoever welcomes Me, doesn't so much welcome Me but Him Who sent Me."
|
|-
|38
|And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
|John replied: "Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in Your Name, who was not one of our group. We told him to stop doing it, because he wasn't one of us.
|
|-
|39
|But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
|But Jesus replied: "Do not forbid him! You see, no man who has carried out a powerful work in My Name can easily turn round and attack Me.
|
|-
|40
|For he that is not against us is on our part.
|Because he who is not our enemy is our ally.
|
|-
|41
|For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
|Anyone who gives you a drink of water in My Name, because you follow Christ, will not lose his reward in heaven.
|In other words, whether someone does any sort of work, "powerful" or "common," makes no difference.
|-
|42
|And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
|Anyone who corrupts or deceives a child who believes in me will wish he had had a millstone hung around his neck and had been cast into the sea.
|The Greek word '''σκανδαλιζω''' means "I cause to reject someone," not merely "offend" as is used today.
|-
|43
|And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
|If your hand corrupts you, cut if off. Entering eternal life maimed is better than descending to Hell with both hands intact, where the fire burns forever.
|
|-
|44
|Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
|There, the condemned soul does not die, but burns forever.
|The provenance of verse 44 is in dispute.
|-
|45
|And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
|If your foot corrupts you, cut it off. It's better to limp into eternal life than walk steadily into Hell, into that unending fire.
|
|-
|46
|Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
|There, the condemned soul does not die, but burns forever.
|The provenance of this verse, like verse 44, is in dispute.
|-
|47
|And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
|If your eye deceives you, remove it. Entering God's kingdom half-blinded is better than entering Hell's fires with sight intact.
|
|-
|48
|Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
|There, the condemned soul is always eaten by worms, and burns forever.
|The Greek '''σκωληξ''' (''scolex'') clearly means "worm." In fact, that term survives today as the head segment of a tapeworm.
|-
|49
|For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
|Everyone will be salted by fire[, as every sacrifice will be salted with salt].
|The provenance of the bracketed portion is in dispute.
|-
|50
|Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
|Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how will you season the sacrifice? Have salt in yourselves, and have the divine tranquility of mind.
|
|}

==Chapter 10==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.
|And he left that place, and went to the coasts of Judea on the far side of the Jordan river, and the people came to Him again, and He taught them again.
|
|-
|2
|And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
|Some Pharisees came to him, and attempted to trick him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"
|"Pharisees" is the name for a specific sect; see [[Talk:Gospel of Mark (Translated)#"Self-Proclaimed Elite"|this discussion]] regarding the use of "Pharisees."
|-
|3
|And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
|And He answered them, "What did Moses command you?"
|
|-
|4
|And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
|They said, "Moses said that a man could write a bill of divorcement, and divorce her."
|
|-
|5
|And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
|Jesus answered them, saying "He wrote you this law because men's hearts are hardened.
|The Greek word '''σκληροκαρδια''' speaks of a heart that refuses to change. Note the root, that survives in medical terms like "arteriosclerosis."
|-
|6
|But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
|But from the beginning of time, God has made man, male and female.
|
|-
|7
|For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
|For this reason, men leave their parents and cling to a wife,
|
|-
|8
|And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
|and the two shall be one flesh, so that they are no longer two people, but one.
|
|-
|9
|What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
|What God has joined together, let no mean tear apart."
|
|-
|10
|And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
|In his house, later, His students asked the same question again.
|The Pharisees asked Jesus this question to trick him; His students asked Him out of curiosity.
|-
|11
|And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
|He said to them, "Any man who divorces his wife and marries another has committed adultery.
|
|-
|12
|And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
|And if a woman divorces her husband, and marries another, she commits adultery."
|This is the real answer to the question of divorce.
|-
|13
|And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
|Young children were brought to Jesus, that He might teach them. His students scolded those who brought the children,
|
|-
|14
|But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
|but when Jesus saw what His students were doing, He was very unhappy, and told them, "Do not forbid the children to come to me. Allow them there, for they are so like the kingdom of God.
|
|-
|15
|Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
|Truly I say to you, who ever does not receive the kingdom of God the way a child does, he shall not enter into it."
|
|-
|16
|And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
|Jesus took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
|
|-
|17
|And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
|As he was leaving, a man came running up to him, and kneeled before him, asking, "Good Teacher, what must I do that I may have eternal life?"
|
|-
|18
|And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
|And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? There is no one good but God the Father.
|
|-
|19
|Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
|You know the commandments, 'Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your parents."
|
|-
|20
|And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
|The man answered Him, saying, "Teacher, I have kept all the commandments, since I was a child."
|
|-
|21
|Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
|Jesus loved him, so He said to him, "You lack one thing: go home, sell all your possessions, giving all you have to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow me."
|
|-
|22
|And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
|The man was sad to hear this, and grieved as he left, because he had a lot of "stuff."
|
|-
|23
|And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
|Jesus looked around and said to His students, "How unlikely it is that those who have a lot of money will enter the kingdom of God!"
|The "having" of money isn't the problem, so much as coming to depend on that money as a [[God-substitute]]. But anyone who has money, might come to trust in it. [[God]] wants us to trust Him, money or no.
|-
|24
|And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
|The students were astonished to hear this. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is for them [who trust in money] to enter the kingdom of God!
|Not all manuscripts contain that clarification.
|-
|25
|It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
|It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for an idle miser to enter into the kingdom of God."
|Plousios meant the idle rich then; the closest term today would be "idle miser"; the Greek is from ploutos (wealth), from which plutocrat is derived.

The "needle" was the very narrow pedestrian portal in the larger city gate. In order to pass, the camel must lower itself. Similarly, in order to pass the gates of heaven, a man must bow.
|-
|26
|And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
|They were incredulous, saying to each other, "Who, then, can be saved?"
|
|-
|27
|And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
|Jesus looked at them and said, "With man, it is impossible to be saved, but not with God - with God, all things are possible."
|God stands ready to save any man, rich, poor, or in-between, who will trust Him ahead of anything else.
|-
|28
|Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
|Peter said to him, "We have left all we had, and followed you."
|
|-
|29
|And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
|Jesus answered, "Truly I tell you, every man who has left his house, or siblings, or parents, or family, or lands for My sake and the sake of the gospel
|
|-
|30
|But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
|shall in this life receive a hundred times as much persecution as he gave up in goods. But in the world to come, he shall receive eternal life.
|
|-
|31
|But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.
|Many who are in the first rank will be sent to the last rank, and many in the last shall be brought forward to the first."
|
|-
|32
|And they were in the way going up to Jerusalem; and Jesus went before them: and they were amazed; and as they followed, they were afraid. And he took again the twelve, and began to tell them what things should happen unto him,
|Jesus walked ahead of the rest on their way to Jerusalem. His students were in amazement while other followers were fearful. Jesus pulled the twelve Apostles aside and began telling them what to expect next.
|
|-
|33
|Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:
|He said, "Listen carefully: we will arrive in Jerusalem, where the Son of man shall be betrayed and handed over to the leading priests and scribes, who shall condemn Him to death for execution by the Gentiles.
|A reminder that the [[Sanhedrin]] of Jerusalem had no power to order anyone's execution, but had to get a warrant from the occupying Roman authority.
|-
|34
|And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.
|They will mock Him, whip Him, spit on Him, and murder Him; yet on the third day He shall rise to life again."
|
|-
|35
|And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.
|Then James and John, Zebedee's sons, approached Jesus to say, "Teacher, could we ask you for a favor?"
|
|-
|36
|And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
|Jesus replied, "What would you like?"
|
|-
|37
|They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
|They requested, "Give us the highest seats of honor in your glory, with one of us at your right hand and the other at your left!"
|
|-
|38
|But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
|But Jesus replied to them, "You don't know what you're asking. Can you drink the same cup as I, and accept the same baptism that I will endure?"
|
|-
|39
|And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
|They replied, "Sure we can." Jesus then told them, "You will drink same cup as I, and be baptized as I will."
|seems a bit awkward, could be improved
|-
|40
|But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
|Alas, the seats on my left and right hands are not for me to distribute. They are destined for others, and will be given to them.
|
|-
|41
|And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John.
|The other ten students grew indignant with James and John when they heard this.
|
|-
|42
|But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
|Jesus gathered them together and said, "You know that those who rule over the Gentiles rule like lords over them, and those with great titles exercise authority over them.
|
|-
|43
|But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
|It will be different for you. Anyone who wants to be great among you will first have to wait on you.
|Differentiate the truly "great" followers with the so-called "great" of the Gentiles
|-
|44
|And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
|"Whoever has first rank will be the servant of all others."
|The Greek word actually translates "slave." More to the point, this is the basis of the term ''servant leader'' that is the ideal in Christian ministry.
|-
|45
|For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
|"Because even I, the Son of Man, did not come to be waited on, but to wait on others, and give My life as payment for the souls of all."
|
|-
|46
|And they came to Jericho: and as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging.
|They reached [[Jericho]]. As Jesus and His students emerged from the city, followed by a large crowd of people, they saw a blind man named Bartimaeus son of Timaeus begging by the side of the road.
|Making clear to today's reader that Jericho was a city.
|-
|47
|And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|When He heard that Jesus of Nazareth was there, he began to shout, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me."
|
|-
|48
|And many charged him that he should hold his peace: but he cried the more a great deal, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|Others told him to shut up, but he only shouted louder, "You, Son of David, have mercy on me!"
|
|-
|49
|And Jesus stood still, and commanded him to be called. And they call the blind man, saying unto him, Be of good comfort, rise; he calleth thee.
|Jesus stopped in His tracks, asking that he be called over. Followers then welcomed the blind man, telling him, "Take heart and get up; He's calling you."
|
|-
|50
|And he, casting away his garment, rose, and came to Jesus.
|Arising, the man threw off his coat and came to Jesus.
|
|-
|51
|And Jesus answered and said unto him, What wilt thou that I should do unto thee? The blind man said unto him, Lord, that I might receive my sight.
|Jesus said to the blind man: "What do you want Me to do for you?" The man replied: "Sir, I want you to make me able to see."
|The original word used was '''Ραββουνι''' (''Rabboni''), an Aramaic word meaning the same thing as ''rabbi'', which can mean "Master" or simply "Sir" as we use it.
|-
|52
|And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
|Jesus said to him: "Go on your way; you have been healed because of your faith." The man immediately found that he could see, and started to follow Jesus' teachings.
|The Greek phrase '''ο οδος''' (''ho hodos''), translated as "The Way", was a common expression for all the teachings of Jesus.
|}

==Chapter 11==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And when they came nigh to Jerusalem, unto Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount of Olives, he sendeth forth two of his disciples,
|They came to Bethphage and Bethany, near Jerusalem at the Mount of Olives. Jesus sent two of His students.
|
|-
|2
|And saith unto them, Go your way into the village over against you: and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose him, and bring him.
|with these instructions: "Go to the next village ahead. Just within its limits, you'll find a tied up colt, which no man has ever sat upon. Untie him and bring him here.
|
|-
|3
|And if any man say unto you, Why do ye this? say ye that the Lord hath need of him; and straightway he will send him hither.
|If anyone asks you why you're doing so, tell them that the Lord needs the colt, and he will send the colt along at once."
|
|-
|4
|And they went their way, and found the colt tied by the door without in a place where two ways met; and they loose him.
|They went to complete their task, finding the colt tied up at a street crossing and releasing him.
|
|-
|5
|And certain of them that stood there said unto them, What do ye, loosing the colt?
|Some people loitering there asked, "why are you releasing that colt?"
|
|-
|6
|And they said unto them even as Jesus had commanded: and they let them go.
|The disciples said what Jesus had told them to say, and the people let them pass.
|
|-
|7
|And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him.
|They returned to Jesus, put their garments on the colt, and Jesus sat on it.
|The KJV uses "him" only because the original Greek word was masculine, not neutral.
|-
|8
|And many spread their garments in the way: and others cut down branches off the trees, and strawed them in the way.
|Lots of people put their clothes on Jesus' path, while others cut palm branches down and placed them on the path.
|
|-
|9
|And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:
|And all the people along the route sang "Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!
|In fact, this is a direct Greek translation of the Hebrew idiomatic phrase that means, "Welcome!" The word used for "blessed" here means "spoken well of" rather than "not-cut-off" as was quoted by Matthew and Luke at the Sermon on the Mount.

The word ''Hosanna'' is [[Aramaic]] for "Save, I pray."
|-
|10
|Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
|"Blessed is the kingdom of David, our father, which comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the highest."
|In other words, "Welcome to King David's kingdom."
|-
|11
|And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.
|Jesus entered Jerusalem and went into the temple, and when he had seen everything and it was evening, went to Bethany with the Twelve apostles.
|
|-
|12
|And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
|Leaving Bethany the following day, he was hungry.
|
|-
|13
|And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
|He saw a fig tree in the distance, which had leafed, and went to see if there was fruit upon it. But there was nothing but leaves, for the fig season hadn't begun.
|
|-
|14
|And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
|Jesus declared a parable in the hearing of His students, "no man will eat your fruit evermore."
|
|-
|15
|And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
|They entered Jerusalem and Jesus entered the [[Temple of Jerusalem|Temple]]. He threw out the vendors and toppled the moneychangers' tables and dove-sellers' seats.
|
|-
|16
|And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
|He would not let any man carry their wares through the temple.
|The spectacle of the commercialization of the Temple, carried out as it had been under the Pharisees' noses, stood as further indictment of their hypocrisy.
|-
|17
|And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
|He then taught the true doctrine: "Isn't it written that My house will be the house of prayer for all people? But you have turned it into a den of robbers."
|
|-
|18
|And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.
|The scribes and leading priests heard about this and conspired to destroy him, fearing him and the people who were amazed by his teaching.
|
|-
|19
|And when even was come, he went out of the city.
|In the evening, Jesus left the city.
|
|-
|20
|And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
|In the morning, they passed a fig tree which had dried from the roots up.
|
|-
|21
|And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
|Peter remembered what Jesus had said, and declared, "Master, look! The fig tree you condemned has withered away!"
|
|-
|22
|And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
|Jesus then provided the answer, "Have faith in God.
|
|-
|23
|For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
|I tell you the truth. Anyone who says to a mountain, 'move out of my way and jump into the sea,' and has no doubts in his soul but believes it will come to pass, that man's words will become true.
|This is the origin of the phrase "faith that can move mountains."
|-
|24
|Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
|So I tell you, if you pray for whatever you desire, and believe that you'll receieve it, you will.
|
|-
|25
|And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
|And when you're praying, forgive anyone that you have anything against, so that your father God in heaven will forgive you your sins as well."
|
|-
|26
|But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
|"If you don't forgive, God your heavenly father will not forgive you."
|The provenance of this verse is disputed. It is consistent with verse 25 above, but also redundant.
|-
|27
|And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,
|When they returned to Jerusalem, the leading priests, scribes, and elders came to Him as He was walking in the Temple.
|
|-
|28
|And say unto him, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?
|And they asked him "Who gave you the authority to do these things?"
|
|-
|29
|And Jesus answered and said unto them, I will also ask of you one question, and answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things.
|Jesus replied, "If you will answer one question, I'll tell you by whose authority I do these things.
|
|-
|30
|The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.
|Tell me. Did John's baptism come from Heaven, or from men?"
|
|-
|31
|And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then did ye not believe him?
|They debated with each other, "If we say 'from heaven,' then He will reply, 'Then why didn't you believe him?'
|
|-
|32
|But if we shall say, Of men; they feared the people: for all men counted John, that he was a prophet indeed.
|But if we say, 'of men,...!'" In fact they were afraid of the people because everyone considered John a true prophet.
|
|-
|33
|And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things.
|So they replied to Jesus, "We don't know." And Jesus responded, "Neither do I reveal to you My authority for my deeds."
|By saying that they didn't know, the elites copped out, as Jesus knew they would.
|}

==Chapter 12==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
|Jesus began to teach them parables. "A businessman planted a vineyard and placed a hedge around it. He dug a place for the windpress, built a tower, rented it to tenant vinedressers, and traveled abroad.
|The literal Greek word is '''γεωργος''' or ''georgos'', from which comes the name '''Γεωργιος''' or ''Georgios'', the name of several [[saint]]s who doubtless had "workmanlike" dispositions. It might also be the origin of the expression, "Let George do it!"
|-
|2
|And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.
|When the grape season arrived, he sent one of his slaves to them, to return with the fruit of the vineyard.
|A slave in those days actually held a position of greater honor than one might at first suppose, depending on the nature and disposition of his owner.
|-
|3
|And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.
|But they caught him, beat him, and sent him back empty-handed.
|
|-
|4
|And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.
|So the owner sent another slave, but they threw stones at him, wounding him in the head. He too was rebuffed, badly treated.
|These are direct metaphors for the maltreatment of the [[prophet]]s.
|-
|5
|And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.
|He sent a third, and they killed him, as well as many others. They beat some, killed some.
|
|-
|6
|Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
|He still had a son, whom he loved, and sent him to them last, thinking they would respect his son.
|
|-
|7
|But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
|But the tenants plotted with each other: 'This is his heir. If we kill him, we can take the inheritance.'
|
|-
|8
|And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.
|So they killed him and left his body outside the vineyard.
|A direct metaphor for what will shortly happen to Jesus.
|-
|9
|What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
|So what should the vineyard owner do? He will return to annihilate the tenants and give the vineyard to other, more honest tenants.
|Clarification of "others"
|-
|10
|And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
|Have you not read in the scripture, 'The stone rejected by the builders becomes the cornerstone,
|
|-
|11
|This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
|This is the Lord's way, and it is wonderful to see'?"
|
|-
|12
|And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.
|Furious, the intellectual classes wanted to seize him, but feared the public; they knew this parable was directed at them. They gave up for now and walked out.
|
|-
|13
|And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.
|Instead they chose a group of Pharisees and Herodians, and sent them to Jesus to try and catch Him out by using His own words against Him.
|The Herodians were political partisans of [[Herod Antipas]] within Jewish society.
|-
|14
|And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
|When they came, they said to Him, "Teacher, we know that You are true, and play no favorites among men. You are no Respecter of persons, but teach the Way of God in truth. Now: is it lawful to pay capitation [[tax]]es to Caesar, or not?
|Literally, '''κηνσος''' or ''kensos'', a transliteration of the Latin ''census''. This was a head tax collected at the census. [[Joseph of Nazareth]] and his wife [[Mary]] had to pay such a tax.
|-
|15
|Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
|"What do we do: give, nor not?" But He, knowing full well how hypocritical they were, said to them, "Why are you always testing Me? Bring me a shilling, so that I may examine it."
|The "shilling" was a Roman denarius, worth one day's wages, and also the standard tax rate.
|-
|16
|And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
|They brought one. He said to them, "Whose face and epigram is this?" They told him, "Caesar's."
|
|-
|17
|And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
|In answer, Jesus told them, "Give Caesar what is Caesar's, and God what is God's." And they were struck completely speechless by Him.
|
|-
|18
|Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
|Then some Sadducees came to Him. They say that there is no such thing as the resurrection. They asked Him,
|The Sadducees, followers of one Zadok, discounted anything "mystical" or miraculous in the [[Bible]]. Today, they would probably be [[evolutionism|evolutionists]].
|-
|19
|Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
|"Teacher, Moses wrote this law: 'If a man's brother dies, and leaves a wife but no children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up a son to inherit his brother's estate.'
|The Levirate Law.
|-
|20
|Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
|Now there were seven brothers. The first married a wife, and died without issue.
|
|-
|21
|And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
|Then the second married her, then died, and also left no issue. So did the third.
|
|-
|22
|And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
|Indeed all seven married her, and left no issue. Last of all the woman died.
|
|-
|23
|In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
|Now: in the resurrection, when they're all risen from the dead, whose wife will she be? After all, all seven married her!"
|This Levirate Riddle is quite similar to the [[Logical fallacy|logically fallacious]] arguments that evolutionists raise against [[creationism|creationists]] today.
|-
|24
|And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
|Jesus replied, "You are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
|
|-
|25
|For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
|You see, when they rise from the dead, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. They'll be like God's Messengers in heaven.
|Meaning, the [[angels]]. Here is a declaration that angels do not procreate, nor will resurrected people be in a position to repopulate the earth after the War of Armageddon (see Revelation 19).
|-
|26
|And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
|And while we're on the subject: I'll prove to you that the dead will rise. Haven't you read in the Books of Moses, how God spoke to him in a burning bush, saying, 'I am the God of [[Abraham]], and the God of [[Isaac]], and the God of [[Jacob]]?'
|
|-
|27
|He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
|He isn't the God of dead men, but the God of living men. So you are vastly mistaken."
|
|-
|28
|And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
|One of the scribes came, who had heard them debating this issue, and realizing that He had given a good answer to the riddle. So he asked Him, "Which is the most important commandment of all?"
|
|-
|29
|And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
|Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One."
|A direct quote from the [[Septuagint]].
|-
|30
|And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
|And you will love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and all your mind, and all your strength. This is the most important commandment.
|
|-
|31
|And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
|The second most important commandment is just like it: you shall love your neighbor as you love yourself. No other commandment is more important than these two."
|
|-
|32
|And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
|The scribe said back to Him, "Well, Teacher, You speak the truth: 'There is one God, and there is no one else but Him,
|
|-
|33
|And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
|and to love Him with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love one's neighbor as one loves himself, is more important than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices a man can make.'"
|
|-
|34
|And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
|Jesus saw that he had given a sensible answer. So He said to him, "You aren't far from the Kingdom of God." After that, no man dared ask Him anything.
|
|-
|35
|And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?
|Jesus said in answer, while He was teaching in the Temple, "How can the scribes say that Christ is the Son of [[David]]?
|
|-
|36
|For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
|After all, David himself said, under the influence of the Divine Guide, 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit on My right hand, until I make Your enemies something to put Your feet on."'
|
|-
|37
|David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
|So David himself calls Him Lord. So how can He be his son?" And many people were glad to hear this.
|
|-
|38
|And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
|In His lessons He told them, "Watch out for the scribes. They want to go about in long clothing, and want people to greet them in the public square.
|
|-
|39
|And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
|They want the seats of honor in the synagogues, and the ranking dining rooms at banquets.
|
|-
|40
|Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
|And they also devour widows' homes, and put up a pretense by making long prayers. They will receive an even greater punishment."
|
|-
|41
|And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
|Jesus was sitting next to the treasury, and watched how people threw money into the treasury. Many rich people threw in a lot of money.
|
|-
|42
|And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
|Then came a certain poor widow, who threw in two mites, which together were worth a quarter-penny.
|The "mite" is the '''λεπτον''' (''lepton''), a [[copper]] coin of very low value. Two leptons made a '''κοδραντον''' (''kodranton'') or Roman quadrant. Four quadrants made an assarion (the "penny" of the day), and ten assaria made a denarius ("shilling").
|-
|43
|And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
|He called His students to Him, and told them, "I tell you truly: This poor widow has thrown in more money than everyone else combined.
|
|-
|44
|For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
|All they did was to throw in a sample of their abundance. She, in her poverty, threw in everything she had, even everything she had to live on."
|
|}

==Chapter 13==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
|As they left the temple, one of Jesus' students said, "Teacher, just look at the sort of stones and magnificient buildings in this place!"
|
|-
|2
|And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
|Jesus responded, "See these grand buildings? Not one stone will remain atop another which will not be destroyed."
|The future Emperor Titus would bring about that destruction in AD 70.
|-
|3
|And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
|As Jesus sat atop the Mount of Olives, looking at the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew requested a private conference. They asked,
|
|-
|4
|Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
|"When will these events take place, and what will be the sign of their fulfillment?"
|
|-
|5
|And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
|Jesus answered them, "Be on guard and don't let any man fool you.
|
|-
|6
|For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
|Many will come shouting My Name and say 'I am Christ!', and will fool many people.
|
|-
|7
|And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
|When you hear news of war and false rumor about them, don't worry, because they must occur but will not be the end.
|
|-
|8
|For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
|Ethnic groups and nation-states will attack one another. Earthquakes will occur in many lands. Famine and chaos will rule. These are the beginnings of the birth-pains.
|
|-
|9
|But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
|So take care of yourselves. The masses will hand you over to the tribunals, you will be beaten in houses of worship, and be hauled before leaders and kings for My sake, to testify against them.
|
|-
|10
|And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
|The good news has to be published among all ethnic groups first.
|
|-
|11
|But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
|But when they drag you in or betray you, do not worry about what to say. In that hour, you will be given the words to say, because the Divine Guide will be speaking for you and through you.
|
|-
|12
|Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
|Brother will betray brother to his death, father to son, children will rebel against their parents, and shall sign their death warrants.
|
|-
|13
|And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
|And you will be hated by every man on account of My Name, but you will be saved if you endure to the end.
|
|-
|14
|But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
|And when you see the Abomination of Desolation standing where it shouldn't - let the reader understand - then everyone living in Judea must flee into the mountains.
|The phrase "spoken of by Daniel the prophet" does not appear here, though Matthew and Luke both use it.
|-"let the reader understand" - ho anaginoskon is "the [one] reading", or the reader; compare Revelation 1:3
|15
|And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
|If you're standing on the housetop, don't go down or into the house to take anything out.
|
|-
|16
|And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
|If you're in the field, don't turn back even to get your cloak.
|
|-
|17
|But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
|And it will be bad for pregnant and nursing women in those days!
|
|-
|18
|And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
|And pray that you don't have to flee in the wintertime.
|
|-
|19
|For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
|In those days you will see such oppression as has not been seen from the beginning of God's creation until today, nor will ever be seen again.
|
|-
|20
|And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
|If the Lord hadn't limited those days, no flesh would survive. But for the sake of His chosen ones, He has set a limit on the time.
|
|-
|21
|And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
|And then if any man tells you, 'Look! Here's Christ!' or 'Look! There He is!', don't believe him.
|
|-
|22
|For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
|False Christs and false prophets will rise up, working enough signs and wonders to lead even the chosen ones down the garden trail, if that were possible.
|
|-
|23
|But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
|But you look sharp: I have forewarned you about everything.
|
|-
|24
|But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
|"But in those days that follow that oppression, the [[sun]] will go dark, and the [[moon]] not give her light,
|The Greek word '''φεγγος''' (''phengos'') means a secondary or reflected light, in contrast to '''φως''' (''phos''), which means primary light.
|-
|25
|And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
|The stars of the sky will fall, and the powers in heaven will be shaken.
|The "falling stars" are likely [[meteor]]s.
|-
|26
|And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
|Then people shall see 'the Son of man coming in the clouds' with great power and glory.
|
|-
|27
|And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
|Then He will send His Messengers, and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from the furthest part of the earth to the furthest part of the sky.
|
|-
|28
|Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
|You can learn a great deal from the fig tree: when its branch is still tender, and it's putting out leaves, you know that summer is coming.
|The [[KJV]] uses "her" because the Greek word for a fig tree is feminine.
|-
|29
|So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
|Similarly, when you see these things happening, you know that My return is practically at your door.
|
|-
|30
|Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
|I tell you truly: this generation will not pass away until all these things happen.
|
|-
|31
|Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
|Heaven and earth might pass away, but My Words will not pass away.
|
|-
|32
|But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
|But no man knows about that day or that hour. Even the Messengers in heaven don't know. I, the Son, don't know. Only the Father knows.
|
|-
|33
|Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
|Take care and stay alert, because you don't know what time it is.
|Some manuscripts say "watch and pray."
|-
|34
|For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
|The Son of man is like a man traveling abroad, who left his house, and gave his slaves the proper authority, and a work assignment to every man, and ordered the doorkeeper to keep watch.
|
|-
|35
|Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
|So you keep watch. You don't know when the master of the house is coming. He could come in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or later in the morning.
|
|-
|36
|Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
|Don't let Him catch you napping!
|
|-
|37
|And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
|I'm telling you what I'm telling everyone: stay on watch."
|
|}

==Chapter 14 (the [[Last Supper]] begins at 14:17; the [[Passion of Christ]] begins at 14:55)==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
|Two days later, it was time for the the Passover holiday of unleavened bread, and the leading priests and scribes were trying to figure out how to catch Him by stealth and have Him executed.
|
|-
|2
|But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.
|But they said, "Not on the day of the festival! Do you want to have a riot among the people?"
|
|-
|3
|And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
|At that time, he was in Bethany at Simon the leper's house, having a meal. A woman came in with an expensive white crystal container of valerian oil, which she opened and poured over his head.
|
|-
|4
|And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
|Some of the onlookers were indignant, saying "Why did she waste that nice oil like that?
|
|-
|5
|For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
|We could have sold that for more than three hundred shillings and charitably donated the money to the poor!" They kept whispering about what a bad thing she had done.
|This oil was expensive indeed: a day's wages for three hundred men.
|-
|6
|And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.
|But Jesus said, "Leave her alone; why are you bothering her? She had done Me a favor.
|
|-
|7
|For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
|There will always be poor people around, and whenever you feel like helping them you can, but I am not going to be around forever.
|
|-
|8
|She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
|She did what she could: She came in advance to get my body ready for burial.
|
|-
|9
|Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.
|Truly I tell you: Anywhere in the world that people preach the good news about me, they are also going to remember what she did and talk about it."
|
|-
|10
|And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.
|After that, Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve apostles, went to betray Jesus to the leading priests,
|
|-
|11
|And when they heard it, they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought how he might conveniently betray him.
|who were happy to hear it and offered to pay him. So Judas thought about how it would be best to do the deed, and the best time to do it.
|
|-
|12
|And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
|So on the first day of the Passover holiday, after they killed the lamb, the students of Jesus said to him, "Where do you want us to go and get this lamb ready for you to eat?"
|
|-
|13
|And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
|He answered by sending two of the students to go to town. He told them, "Go into the city, and you'll find a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him.
|
|-
|14
|And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
|When he goes into a house, tell the man in charge, 'Our teacher wants to know where the dining room is, so we can eat our lamb.'
|The Greek '''καταλυμα''' means "upper room." Any homeowner kept this upper room, the best room in the house, for his guests, but the modern equivalent is "dining room." Can "lamb" be improved?
|-
|15
|And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.
|He will show you a large room on the second floor, furnished and already prepared. Prepare for us there."
|
|-
|16
|And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
|So the students went into town, and it happened exactly like he had told them, so they got the lamb ready to eat.
|
|-
|17
|And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
|That evening, Jesus and the Twelve arrived.
|
|-
|18
|And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.
|While they were sitting and eating, Jesus said, "Truly I tell you, one of you who is eating with Me here will betray Me."
|
|-
|19
|And they began to be sorrowful, and to say unto him one by one, Is it I? and another said, Is it I?
|They became very upset, and one after another said, "You don't mean me, do You?" "It's not I, is it?"
|
|-
|20
|And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.
|Jesus told them, "It is one of you - the one who dips his bread in the bowl with me.
|
|-
|21
|The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
|The Son of man will die as the Scriptures said, but as for the man who betrays the Son of man, he would have been better off if he had never been born."
|
|-
|22
|And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
|And while they were eating, Jesus took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and distributed it, saying "Take this and eat it. This is My body."
|
|-
|23
|And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
|And He took the cup, said a prayer, and passed it around, and everybody drank some.
|
|-
|24
|And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
|Then he said to them, "This is My blood of the New Testament, which I bled for the sake of many people.
|
|-
|25
|Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
|Truly I say to you, I shall not drink wine again until the day I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."
|Again, the "wine" of those days was not fermented.
|-
|26
|And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
|Then, after they had sung a hymn, they went out into the Mount of Olives,
|
|-
|27
|And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.
|where Jesus told them, "All of you are going to have doubts about Me tonight. It is prophesied,
'I will kill the shepherd, and then the sheep will be scattered.'
|
|-
|28
|But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee.
|But I shall rise and I shall go into Galilee before you."
|
|-
|29
|But Peter said unto him, Although all shall be offended, yet will not I.
|But Peter said, "Even if everyone doubts You, I never will."
|
|-
|30
|And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.
|And Jesus said to him, "Hear me when I say that tonight, before the rooster crows twice, you are going to disavow Me three times."
|
|-
|31
|But he spake the more vehemently, If I should die with thee, I will not deny thee in any wise. Likewise also said they all.
|But Peter protested, with agitation, "Even if I end up having to die with you, I'll never disavow you." Everyone chimed in to say the same.
|
|-
|32
|And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane: and he saith to his disciples, Sit ye here, while I shall pray.
|By now, they were at a place called Gethsemane. Jesus told his disciples, "Take a seat here, everyone. I want to pray."
|
|-
|33
|And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;
|Then he went away from them, taking Peter, James, and John, and he became very upset and distressed.
|
|-
|34
|And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.
|He said to them, "My soul is dying of sadness. Stay here and keep your eyes open."
|
|-
|35
|And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
|He wandered away a little, and fell to the ground. He prayed that if there were any possible way, he wouldn't have to go through what was to come.
|
|-
|36
|And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
|He said, "Oh Father, anything is possible for you. I don't want this fate. Take it away. But let it be what you want, not what I want."
|He used the Hebrew word ''abba'', which is the equivalent of "Daddy."
|-
|37
|And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?
|When he came back and found His students sleeping, he said to Peter, "Simon are you sleeping? Couldn't you keep your eyes open for an hour?
|
|-
|38
|Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
|Keep them open and pray, or else you might fail the test. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."
|
|-
|39
|And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words.
|Again, he went away and prayed, and he said the same thing again.
|
|-
|40
|And when he returned, he found them asleep again, (for their eyes were heavy,) neither wist they what to answer him.
|When he got back, he found them asleep again (they were really tired), and they had no idea how to answer him.
|
|-
|41
|And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
|The third time he came back, he told them, "Just sleep now. I have prayed enough, and the time has come for the Son of man to be betrayed into the hands of sinners.
|
|-
|42
|Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.
|Get up, we must go. Look, the betrayer is here."
|
|-
|43
|And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders.
|And just as he was saying that, Judas came in, along with many armed men, sent by the leading priests, scribes, and elders.
|the meaning of "from" is most likely "sent by"
|-
|44
|And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead him away safely.
|The betrayer had made an arrangement with them: "The man I kiss is the man you want. Take him and keep him safe."
|
|-
|45
|And as soon as he was come, he goeth straightway to him, and saith, Master, master; and kissed him.
|And as soon as he was there, he went directly to Jesus, saying "Rabbi! Rabbi!" and kissed him.
|
|-
|46
|And they laid their hands on him, and took him.
|And the armed people grabbed Jesus and took him away.
|
|-
|47
|And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
|But one of the men who were standing by drew a sword and struck the high priest's slave, cutting off his ear.
|Luke (but not Matthew or Mark) identifies this one as Peter. The sword used was the '''μαχαιρα''' (''machaira''), or ''gladius'' in [[Latin]]. This short sword was the typical service weapon of a Roman infantryman.
|-
|48
|And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and with staves to take me?
|Jesus said, "Are you coming to get me with your swords and sticks as you would an insurrectionist?
|
|-
|49
|I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.
|I was right there with you, teaching in the temple every single day, and you never came for me then. But the scriptures will have to be fulfilled."
|
|-
|50
|And they all forsook him, and fled.
|Then they all abandoned him and fled.
|
|-
|51
|And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him:
|A young man there following him, with a linen sheet wrapped around his naked body, when he was grabbed by the men.
|While it is likely this boy was Mark, the author, the original text uses the third person.
|-
|52
|And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.
|He ran away naked, leaving the sheet behind.
|
|-
|53
|And they led Jesus away to the high priest: and with him were assembled all the chief priests and the elders and the scribes.
|Then the armed men took Jesus to the [[High Priest]], and all the leading priests, elders, and scribes were assembled there.
|This was the midnight meeting of the [[Sanhedrin]].
|-
|54
|And Peter followed him afar off, even into the palace of the high priest: and he sat with the servants, and warmed himself at the fire.
|Peter followed from a distance, all the way into the High Priest's palace, and he sat down at the fire with the attendants to keep warm.
|
|-
|55
|And the chief priests and all the council sought for witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found none.
|The leading priests and the rest of the [[Sanhedrin]] asked for testimony against Jesus so they could put him to death, but found none.
|
|-
|56
|For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.
|There was much false testimony, and the witnesses contradicted each other.
|
|-
|57
|And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,
|Then certain particularly deceitful witnesses said,
|
|-
|58
|We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
|"We heard Him say, 'I will destroy this handmade temple, and within three days I will build another without using My hands."
|
|-
|59
|But neither so did their witness agree together.
|But these witnesses also contradicted each other.
|
|-
|60
|And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
|The High Priest stood up and asked Jesus, "Do you have nothing to say? Just what are they saying about you?"
|
|-
|61
|But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
|Jesus kept silent. The High Priest started interrogating him again: "Are you the Christ, the Son of the blessed?"
|
|-
|62
|And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
|Jesus answered, saying "I am, and you all are going to see the Son of man sitting at the right hand side of power and coming in the clouds of heaven."
|
|-
|63
|Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
|The High Priest ripped his shirt down the middle, saying "We don't need any more witnesses!
|This ritual tearing of the shirt was a sign of deep mourning and indignation. But in fact the High Priest violated a regulation governing his own conduct when he did this.
|-
|64
|Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
|You all heard the blasphemy, now how do you vote?" And they all condemned him to death.
|
|-
|65
|And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him, Prophesy: and the servants did strike him with the palms of their hands.
|Some of them spat on him. They put a bag over his head and punched him. They taunted him, "Tell us the future, Prophet!", and the attendants slapped him.
|Capitalized on account of Who He is, not on account of what the Sanhedrin members and their attendants thought He was.

Some manuscripts say that they said in effect, "Who hit You? Guess!"
|-
|66
|And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:
|Meanwhile, Peter was downstairs in the palace, when one of the high priest's maids came by.
|
|-
|67
|And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.
|And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked at him and said, "You were with Jesus of Nazareth."
|
|-
|68
|But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.
|He denied it, saying, "I do not know what you are talking about." And as he went out to the porch, the rooster crowed.
|
|-
|69
|And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them.
|And another maid saw him, and said to the bystanders, "This is one of them."
|
|-
|70
|And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto.
|But he denied it again. And again the bystanders said to Peter, "Surely, you are one of them, for your accent is Galilean."
|
|-
|71
|But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak.
|But he began to swear, saying, "I do not know the man you speak of."
|
|-
|72
|And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.
|And the cock crowed for the second time. Peter recalled what Jesus had told him, "Before the cock crows twice, you will deny Me three times." And he wept at the thought.
|
|}

==Chapter 15==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.
|In the morning the high priests held an urgent consultations with the elders and scribes, and the full membership of the [[Sanhedrin]], and decided to take Jesus to Pontius Pilate.
|
|-
|2
|And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
|Pilate asked Him, "Are you the King of the Jews?" And in answer He said, "You say that."
|
|-
|3
|And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing.
|And the leading priests accused Him of many things, but He did not answer.
|
|-
|4
|And Pilate asked him again, saying, Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they witness against thee.
|Pilate asked Him again, "Have You nothing to say? Look at how many accusations they make against You."
|
|-
|5
|But Jesus yet answered nothing; so that Pilate marvelled.
|But Jesus said nothing, and Pilate was shocked as he had never been shocked before in his career.
|
|-
|6
|Now at that feast he released unto them one prisoner, whomsoever they desired.
|Now at Passover, Pilate always released one prisoner, chosen by the people.
|
|-
|7
|And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection.
|There was one named Barabbas, who was imprisoned because he had rebelled and committed murder in the rebellion.
|
|-
|8
|And the multitude crying aloud began to desire him to do as he had ever done unto them.
|And the crowds cried aloud, begging Pilate to release a prisoner as he always had.
|
|-
|9
|But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
|So Pilate answered them, saying "Do you wish me to release the King of the Jews?"
|
|-
|10
|For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy.
|Since he knew the leading priests had brought Jesus to him out of envy of His popularity.
|
|-
|11
|But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.
|But the leading priests influenced the people to request the release of Barabbas.
|
|-
|12
|And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?
|So Pilate said to the crowds, "What, then, do you wish me to do to the Man you call the King of the Jews?"
|
|-
|13
|And they cried out again, Crucify him.
|And the crowds cried out, "Crucify Him."
|
|-
|14
|Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.
|So Pilate said to them, "Why? What has he done wrong?" And they cried out louder, "Crucify Him!"
|
|-
|15
|And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.
|So Pilate, to keep the people content, released Barabbas to them, and had Jesus scourged and sent to be crucified.
|
|-
|16
|And the soldiers led him away into the hall, called Praetorium; and they call together the whole band.
|The soldiers then took Him into the garrison barracks (the Praetorium) and summoned the entire garrison.
|
|-
|17
|And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,
|They dressed Him in purple and made a wreath of thorns, which they stuck on His head.
|
|-
|18
|And began to salute him, Hail, King of the Jews!
|They then began to deliver mocking salutes: "Hail, King of the Jews!"
|
|-
|19
|And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.
|They beat His head with a stick and spat on Him, and genuflected in mock worship of Him.
|The Greek words clearly say that the soldiers bowed the knee to Him.
|-
|20
|And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple from him, and put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him.
|After mocking Him, they stripped Him of the purple robe, dressed Him in His own clothes, and led Him out to crucify Him.
|
|-
|21
|And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.
|They forced a man named Simon, a Cyrenian, father of Alexander and Rufus, who was then coming out of the field, to carry His cross.
|
|-
|22
|And they bring him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpreted, The place of a skull.
|They brought Him to the place called Golgotha, or "Skull Hill."
|
|-
|23
|And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not.
|They gave Him grape juice mixed with myrrh to drink, but He refused it.
|
|-
|24
|And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
|When they had crucified Him, they divided His clothes among them by gambling for it.
|use the modern term of "gambling" here; see [[Bible on Addiction]]
|-
|25
|And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
|They crucified Him on the third hour of the day.
|
|-
|26
|And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
|The epigram of his accusation was written over His head: THE KING OF THE JEWS.
|
|-
|27
|And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.
|They also crucified two robbers with Him, one on His right and the other on His left.
|
|-
|28
|And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
|With this deed the Scripture was fulfilled, which said, "And He was counted along with the lawless."
|The provenance of this verse is in dispute.
|-
|29
|And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,
|The passersby railed at him, wagging their heads. They said, "Hey, You! You said You could destroy the Temple and rebuild it in three days.
|
|-
|30
|Save thyself, and come down from the cross.
|So save Yourself and come down from the cross!"
|
|-
|31
|Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.
|In the same way the leading priests, in a mocking tone, said to themselves with the scribes, "He saved others, but can't save Himself.
|
|-
|32
|Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
|Let Christ the King of [[Israel]] come down now from the cross! Seeing is believing!" And the men being crucified with Him also insulted Him.
|
|-
|33
|And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
|When the sixth hour arrived, darkness fell over the whole country until the ninth hour.
|This period lasted from noon to three p.m.
|-
|34
|And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
|At the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, ''"Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?"'' (Translation: "My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me?")
|
|-
|35
|And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
|Some of the bystanders, when they heard it, said, "Listen, he's calling [[Elijah]]."
|
|-
|36
|And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
|One of them ran and filled a sponge with vinegar, put it on a stick, and gave it to Him to drink. Others said, "Leave Him alone. Let's see whether Elijah will come to take Him down."
|
|-
|37
|And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
|Jesus shouted something with a loud voice, and breathed his last.
|Literally, "gave up the breath."
|-
|38
|And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
|Then the veil of the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
|
|-
|39
|And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
|When the centurion, who stood next to Him, saw Him cry out and heave his death-sigh, he said, "Truly this Man was the Son of God."
|Here and elsewhere, Mark uses the word '''κεντυριων''', which is "centurion" transliterated into Greek. Luke and the others always use the word '''εκατονταρχος''' (''hekatontarchos''), literally, "leader of a hundred."
|-
|40
|There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
|Some women were also watching from a distance, including Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joseph, and Salome.
|This is ''not'' the little girl who asked for the head of [[John the Baptist]] on a plate! Josephus gives that little girl the name ''Salome'', as well.
|-
|41
|(Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.
|These women had followed Him while He was in Galilee, and used to wait on Him. With them were many other women who had followed Him to Jerusalem.
|The Greek phrase is "came up," a reference to Jerusalem's elevation of 800 meters, higher than that of the surrounding countryside.
|-
|42
|And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
|Now in the evening, because it was preparation time, i.e. the day before the Sabbath,
|
|-
|43
|Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counseller, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
|Joseph of Arimathea, an honorable member of the council, who was also waiting for the Kingdom of God, came forward, went in boldly to Pilate, and claimed the body of Jesus.
|
|-
|44
|And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
|Pilate was shocked to hear that He was already dead. He called the centurion to ask him whether He was dead already.
|
|-
|45
|And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
|When the centurion confirmed it, Pilate gave Joseph permission to take possession of the body.
|
|-
|46
|And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
|Joseph then purchased a quality shroud, and carried Jesus off, wrapped Him in the shroud, and laid Him in a tomb cut out of rock, and rolled a stone to cover the entrance of the tomb.
|ἐπί: the [[NASB]] says "against", but it's a clearer rendition of the original meaning to say "to cover."
|-
|47
|And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.
|Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joseph saw the place where He was laid.
|
|}

==Chapter 16==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
|After the sabbath had come and gone, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome, bought aromatic spices with which to anoint Jesus' body.
|
|-
|2
|And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
|Very early in the morning on the day after the sabbath, they came to the tomb of Jesus at sunrise.
|
|-
|3
|And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
|And the women said to each other, "Who will roll away the stone blocking the tomb door?"
|
|-
|4
|And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
|But when they looked, they saw that the massive stone had been rolled to the side.
|Neither pronoun nor article appears, but only a verb ending.
|-
|5
|And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
|And as they entered the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, wearing a long white garment, and they were afraid.
|
|-
|6
|And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
|The man said to them, "Don't be afraid. You're looking for Jesus of Nazareth, Who was crucified. He has been raised up, He is not here - look at the place where they laid Him.
|
|-
|7
|But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
|Leave now, and tell Peter and the students of Jesus that He has gone ahead of you into Galilee: you will see him there, as he told you."
|
|-
|8
|And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
|They left quickly and ran away from the tomb, shaking and ecstatic both at once. They were so afraid that they didn't say a word to any man.
|The Gospel According to Mark, strictly speaking, ends here. Mark deliberately left it in an unfinished state. Later copyists added a "closing verse," while others added the remaining verses in this table.<ref>http://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html</ref>
|-
|9
|Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
|
|
|-
|10
|And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
|
|
|-
|11
|And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
|
|
|-
|12
|After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
|
|
|-
|13
|And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
|
|
|-
|14
|Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
|
|
|-
|15
|And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
|
|
|-
|16
|He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
|
|
|-
|17
|And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
|
|
|-
|18
|They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
|
|
|-
|19
|So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
|
|
|-
|20
|And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
|
|
|}

[[Mark 1-8 (Translated)]]

== References ==

{{reflist|1}}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Talk:Socialism

2013-03-03T19:00:29Z

Onestone: /* Please remove picture of Hitler */

Gedanken experiment

2013-03-03T18:46:13Z

Onestone: one word, title should be changed accordingly

'''Gedankenexperiment''' or '''thought experiment''' is a device of the imagination used to investigate the nature of things.<ref>{{cite web |title=Thought Experiments|publisher=Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy|date=Jul 29, 2011|accessdate=Mar 03, 2013|url=http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thought-experiment/}}</ref>

==References==
{{Reflist}}
[[category:Methodology of Science]]

Hadash

2013-02-26T22:11:07Z

Onestone: pause a threat > pose a threat

'''Hadash''' (the Hebrew acronym for ''Democratic Front for Peace and Equality'') is an [[Israel]]i political front which was founded in 1977 when the Israeli Communist Party ([[Maki (formerly Rakach)|Maki]]) joined forces with other left wing groups<ref name="MediaCenter">[http://www.jmcc.org/politicalofficedetails.aspx?id=1370 Hadash – Democratic Front for Peace and Equality], on the Jerusalem Media & Communication Center’s website</ref>. While Maki runs to the [[Knesset]] as part of Hadash rather then under its own list, it still retains separate structures within the front<ref name="MediaCenter" /> and in reality dominates it, as 80 percent of the Hadash council are also members of Maki.<ref>[http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=10361 Communist Party likely to stick with Hadash – The Jerusalem Post]</ref> In the latest elections to the Knesset Hadash won four seats.<ref name="KnessetHadash">[http://www.knesset.gov.il/faction/eng/FactionPage_eng.asp?PG=12 Hadash] on the Knesset’s website</ref>

== Platform ==

Hadash seeks the formation of a Palestinian state<ref name="Platform">[http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1990_1999/1998/7/Democratic%20Front%20for%20Peace%20and%20Equality%20-Hadash- Hadash platform]</ref>, despite the fact that it is likely to pose a threat to Israel’s existence.<ref>[http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3093476,00.html ‘Tel Aviv will be like Sderot’ - Ynet]</ref> It also calls for a full Israeli withdrawal from the [[Golan Heights]] as well<ref name="Platform" />, even though such a move will put Israel in great strategic risk.<ref>[http://www.acpr.org.il/pp/pp108xs.htm The Golan Heights and the Facts – Ariel Center for Policy Research]</ref>

Members of Knesset from Hadash are known for making statements against the United States and Israel and in favor of their enemies such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran.<ref>[http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3192263,00.html Arab MK: Syria will hasten Palestinian J'lem - Ynet]</ref><ref>[http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/arab-mks-arrive-in-cairo-for-hamas-fatah-unity-deal-1.359779 - Arab MKs arrive in Cairo for Hamas-Fatah unity deal Haaretz]</ref><ref>[http://www.challenge-mag.com/en/article__28 Israel's Communist Party and Hezbollah – Challenge Magazine]</ref> Amir Makhoul, brother of former Hadash Knesset Member Issam Makhoul, was convicted on January 2011 of spying for Hezbollah.<ref>[http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/arab-activist-amir-makhoul-gets-nine-years-for-espionage-1.340251 Arab activist Amir Makhoul gets nine years for espionage - Haaretz]</ref>

The social views of Hadash tend to be liberal, and its members have bullied Israeli opponents of the [[homosexual agenda]].<ref>[http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3500042,00.html MK Zeev: Gay 'plague' could destroy Israel - Ynet]</ref>

== References ==
{{reflist}}

== External links ==
* [http://hadash.org.il/ Hadash’s official Hebrew website]
* [http://aljabha.org/ Hadash’s official Arabic website]
* [http://www.knesset.gov.il/faction/eng/FactionPage_eng.asp?PG=12 Hadash] on the Knesset’s website

[[Category:Israeli Political Parties]]
[[Category:Liberals]]
[[Category:Homosexual Agenda]]

Mark 9-16 (Translated)

2013-02-26T20:47:12Z

Onestone: /* Chapter 14 (the Last Supper begins at 14:17; the Passion of Christ begins at 14:55) */

==Chapter 9==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
|Jesus said the them, "Truly I tell you, there are some of you standing here who will live to see the kingdom of God come with power."
|Jesus refers here to the founding of the Church, which truly begins with the events of Acts 2:1-4.
|-
|2
|And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
|Six days later, Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up into a high mountain, and was transfigured before them.
|Or literally, "metamorphized."
|-
|3
|And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
|His clothing became dazzling white, whiter than snow, whiter than any launderer on earth could make them.
|This is about perfection beyond what mere humanity can achieve.
|-
|4
|And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
|And they saw [[Elijah]] and [[Moses]] talking with Jesus.
|And they saw [[Elijah]] and [[Moses]], and they spoke with Jesus. your previous translation could be taken as the disciples spoke with Jesus, the KJV version |suggests that Elijah and Moses spoke with Jesus.
|-
|5
|And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
|Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us make three tents for the blessed, one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah."
|Where is the phrase "for the blessed" coming from in this verse?
|-
|6
|For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
|For he did not know what he was saying, so nervous were they.
|They were afraid, but not as one is afraid of a fire or an animal, but as anyone is afraid of something larger than himself. In addition, Peter was speaking without thinking, as usual.
|-
|7
|And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
|Now a cloud came and cast a shadow all around, and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is my beloved Son. Listen to Him!"
|
|-
|8
|And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
|Then suddenly, when they looked around them, they could not see a single person, except Jesus and themselves.
|
|-
|9
|And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
|As they came down the mountain, He asked them not to tell anyone what they had seen until He, the [[Son of Man]], had risen from the grave.
|
|-
|10
|And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
|Indeed, they kept his secret, but asked each other what such a resurrection would entail.
|
|-
|11
|And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
|Then they asked Jesus, "Why do the scribes say that Elijah will come first?"
|
|-
|12
|And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
|He responded, "It is true that Elijah must come first to restore everything. Likewise, it is written that the Son of Man must suffer a great deal and be regarded as worthless."
|Mere "despising" doesn't express the Greek roots of this word, which include the word for "nothing" or "nobody."
|-
|13
|But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.
|"But Elijah has already come, and the elite did to him whatever they wanted, as was prophesied."
|Clarifying "they" (Herod et. al)
|-
|14
|And when he came to his disciples, he saw a great multitude about them, and the scribes questioning with them.
|Returning to His students, he found an enormous crowd gathered around them, with the scribes interrogating them.
|
|-
|15
|And straightway all the people, when they beheld him, were greatly amazed, and running to him saluted him.
|Immediately the whole crowd, seeing Jesus, ran to greet Him, amazed by His presence.
|Elizabethan English used "salute" even to mean "greet" as one civilian to another.
|-
|16
|And he asked the scribes, What question ye with them?
|Jesus demanded of the scribes, "What are you asking the people about?"
|
|-
|17
|And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
|But a man from the crowd ran forward and said, "Lord, I've brought you my son, who has a demon of dumbness."
|Even the KJV had some gender-neutral verbiage
|-
|18
|And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
|"And wherever the demon takes him, he claws at himself, foams from the mouth, grinds his teeth, and his body wastes away. I asked Your students to exorcise him, but they couldn't."
|
|-
|19
|He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
|Jesus responded, "You faithless generation, how long can I be with you? How long will I put up with you? Bring your son to Me."
|
|-
|20
|And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
|They brought him. The demon, seeing Jesus, immediately threw the boy to the ground, where he flailed about, and foamed.
|
|-
|21
|And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
|Jesus asked the father, "How long has this afflicted him?" "Since he was a child", the man replied.
|
|-
|22
|And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
|"Sometimes the demon throws him into the fire, other times into water in order to kill him. If it is true that you can do anything, please have compassion on us and help."
|
|-
|23
|Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
|Jesus observed, "If you can believe; anything is possible to the believer."
|
|-
|24
|And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
|The father cried out, tears filling his eyes, "I believe, Lord. Help my lack of faith!"
|The word used is '''απιστια''' (''apistia''), which specifically means "not believing."
|-
|25
|When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
|When Jesus saw the crowd of people running together, He scolded the evil spirit, telling him, "You deaf and mute spirit, I order you to leave him alone, and never to bother him again".
|
|-
|26
|And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
|The spirit cried out and exited him violently. The boy looked so much like he was dead, that bystanders declared, "He's dead!"
|
|-
|27
|But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.
|But Jesus took his hand and pulled him up, and he stood up.
|
|-
|28
|And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
|When Jesus went indoors, His students privately asked him, "Why couldn't we cast him out?"
|
|-
|29
|And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
|He told them, "That kind of spirit can only be driven out by prayer."
|Some, but not all, manuscripts add "and fasting."
|-
|30
|And they departed thence, and passed through Galilee; and he would not that any man should know it.
|They moved on, passing through Galilee; Jesus kept a low profile.
|
|-
|31
|For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
|He taught His students, saying, "The Son of man shall be betrayed to men who shall murder him, but afterward he shall rise on the third day."
|
|-
|32
|But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
|The students did not understand this, and were afraid to ask Jesus.
|
|-
|33
|And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?
|They arrived in Capernaum, where as soon as they had gone into a house Jesus asked His students, "What were you arguing about on the highway?"
|
|-
|34
|But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
|But they were too ashamed to answer because they had been debating who was the greatest among them.
|
|-
|35
|And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.
|Jesus sat down and summoned the Twelve, saying, "If anyone wants the highest rank, then he must first become the lowest of all, waiting on all."
|The word used is '''διακονος''', meaning one who waits on tables. This prefigures the appointment of the first [[deacon]]s.
|-
|36
|And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,
|Jesus then invited a child to join them, and after taking him in His arms, Jesus declared,
|The Greek '''παιδιον''' is neutral, not masculine or feminine. This might explain why the [[NAB]] uses the pronoun "it" instead of "him" here.
|-
|37
|Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
|"Whoever welcomes such a child in My Name, welcomes Me; and whoever welcomes Me, doesn't so much welcome Me but Him Who sent Me."
|
|-
|38
|And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
|John replied: "Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in Your Name, who was not one of our group. We told him to stop doing it, because he wasn't one of us.
|
|-
|39
|But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
|But Jesus replied: "Do not forbid him! You see, no man who has carried out a powerful work in My Name can easily turn round and attack Me.
|
|-
|40
|For he that is not against us is on our part.
|Because he who is not our enemy is our ally.
|
|-
|41
|For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
|Anyone who gives you a drink of water in My Name, because you follow Christ, will not lose his reward in heaven.
|In other words, whether someone does any sort of work, "powerful" or "common," makes no difference.
|-
|42
|And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
|Anyone who corrupts or deceives a child who believes in me will wish he had had a millstone hung around his neck and had been cast into the sea.
|The Greek word '''σκανδαλιζω''' means "I cause to reject someone," not merely "offend" as is used today.
|-
|43
|And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
|If your hand corrupts you, cut if off. Entering eternal life maimed is better than descending to Hell with both hands intact, where the fire burns forever.
|
|-
|44
|Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
|There, the condemned soul does not die, but burns forever.
|The provenance of verse 44 is in dispute.
|-
|45
|And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
|If your foot corrupts you, cut it off. It's better to limp into eternal life than walk steadily into Hell, into that unending fire.
|
|-
|46
|Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
|There, the condemned soul does not die, but burns forever.
|The provenance of this verse, like verse 44, is in dispute.
|-
|47
|And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
|If your eye deceives you, remove it. Entering God's kingdom half-blinded is better than entering Hell's fires with sight intact.
|
|-
|48
|Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
|There, the condemned soul is always eaten by worms, and burns forever.
|The Greek '''σκωληξ''' (''scolex'') clearly means "worm." In fact, that term survives today as the head segment of a tapeworm.
|-
|49
|For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
|Everyone will be salted by fire[, as every sacrifice will be salted with salt].
|The provenance of the bracketed portion is in dispute.
|-
|50
|Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
|Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how will you season the sacrifice? Have salt in yourselves, and have the divine tranquility of mind.
|
|}

==Chapter 10==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.
|And he left that place, and went to the coasts of Judea on the far side of the Jordan river, and the people came to Him again, and He taught them again.
|
|-
|2
|And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
|Some Pharisees came to him, and attempted to trick him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"
|"Pharisees" is the name for a specific sect; see [[Talk:Gospel of Mark (Translated)#"Self-Proclaimed Elite"|this discussion]] regarding the use of "Pharisees."
|-
|3
|And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
|And He answered them, "What did Moses command you?"
|
|-
|4
|And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
|They said, "Moses said that a man could write a bill of divorcement, and divorce her."
|
|-
|5
|And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
|Jesus answered them, saying "He wrote you this law because men's hearts are hardened.
|The Greek word '''σκληροκαρδια''' speaks of a heart that refuses to change. Note the root, that survives in medical terms like "arteriosclerosis."
|-
|6
|But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
|But from the beginning of time, God has made man, male and female.
|
|-
|7
|For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
|For this reason, men leave their parents and cling to a wife,
|
|-
|8
|And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
|and the two shall be one flesh, so that they are no longer two people, but one.
|
|-
|9
|What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
|What God has joined together, let no mean tear apart."
|
|-
|10
|And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
|In his house, later, His students asked the same question again.
|The Pharisees asked Jesus this question to trick him; His students asked Him out of curiosity.
|-
|11
|And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
|He said to them, "Any man who divorces his wife and marries another has committed adultery.
|
|-
|12
|And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
|And if a woman divorces her husband, and marries another, she commits adultery."
|This is the real answer to the question of divorce.
|-
|13
|And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
|Young children were brought to Jesus, that He might teach them. His students scolded those who brought the children,
|
|-
|14
|But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
|but when Jesus saw what His students were doing, He was very unhappy, and told them, "Do not forbid the children to come to me. Allow them there, for they are so like the kingdom of God.
|
|-
|15
|Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
|Truly I say to you, who ever does not receive the kingdom of God the way a child does, he shall not enter into it."
|
|-
|16
|And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
|Jesus took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
|
|-
|17
|And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
|As he was leaving, a man came running up to him, and kneeled before him, asking, "Good Teacher, what must I do that I may have eternal life?"
|
|-
|18
|And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
|And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? There is no one good but God the Father.
|
|-
|19
|Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
|You know the commandments, 'Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your parents."
|
|-
|20
|And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
|The man answered Him, saying, "Teacher, I have kept all the commandments, since I was a child."
|
|-
|21
|Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
|Jesus loved him, so He said to him, "You lack one thing: go home, sell all your possessions, giving all you have to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow me."
|
|-
|22
|And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
|The man was sad to hear this, and grieved as he left, because he had a lot of "stuff."
|
|-
|23
|And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
|Jesus looked around and said to His students, "How unlikely it is that those who have a lot of money will enter the kingdom of God!"
|The "having" of money isn't the problem, so much as coming to depend on that money as a [[God-substitute]]. But anyone who has money, might come to trust in it. [[God]] wants us to trust Him, money or no.
|-
|24
|And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
|The students were astonished to hear this. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is for them [who trust in money] to enter the kingdom of God!
|Not all manuscripts contain that clarification.
|-
|25
|It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
|It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for an idle miser to enter into the kingdom of God."
|Plousios meant the idle rich then; the closest term today would be "idle miser"; the Greek is from ploutos (wealth), from which plutocrat is derived.

The "needle" was the very narrow pedestrian portal in the larger city gate. In order to pass, the camel must lower itself. Similarly, in order to pass the gates of heaven, a man must bow.
|-
|26
|And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
|They were incredulous, saying to each other, "Who, then, can be saved?"
|
|-
|27
|And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
|Jesus looked at them and said, "With man, it is impossible to be saved, but not with God - with God, all things are possible."
|God stands ready to save any man, rich, poor, or in-between, who will trust Him ahead of anything else.
|-
|28
|Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
|Peter said to him, "We have left all we had, and followed you."
|
|-
|29
|And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
|Jesus answered, "Truly I tell you, every man who has left his house, or siblings, or parents, or family, or lands for My sake and the sake of the gospel
|
|-
|30
|But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
|shall in this life receive a hundred times as much persecution as he gave up in goods. But in the world to come, he shall receive eternal life.
|
|-
|31
|But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.
|Many who are in the first rank will be sent to the last rank, and many in the last shall be brought forward to the first."
|
|-
|32
|And they were in the way going up to Jerusalem; and Jesus went before them: and they were amazed; and as they followed, they were afraid. And he took again the twelve, and began to tell them what things should happen unto him,
|Jesus walked ahead of the rest on their way to Jerusalem. His students were in amazement while other followers were fearful. Jesus pulled the twelve Apostles aside and began telling them what to expect next.
|
|-
|33
|Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:
|He said, "Listen carefully: we will arrive in Jerusalem, where the Son of man shall be betrayed and handed over to the leading priests and scribes, who shall condemn Him to death for execution by the Gentiles.
|A reminder that the [[Sanhedrin]] of Jerusalem had no power to order anyone's execution, but had to get a warrant from the occupying Roman authority.
|-
|34
|And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.
|They will mock Him, whip Him, spit on Him, and murder Him; yet on the third day He shall rise to life again."
|
|-
|35
|And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.
|Then James and John, Zebedee's sons, approached Jesus to say, "Teacher, could we ask you for a favor?"
|
|-
|36
|And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
|Jesus replied, "What would you like?"
|
|-
|37
|They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
|They requested, "Give us the highest seats of honor in your glory, with one of us at your right hand and the other at your left!"
|
|-
|38
|But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
|But Jesus replied to them, "You don't know what you're asking. Can you drink the same cup as I, and accept the same baptism that I will endure?"
|
|-
|39
|And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
|They replied, "Sure we can." Jesus then told them, "You will drink same cup as I, and be baptized as I will."
|seems a bit awkward, could be improved
|-
|40
|But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
|Alas, the seats on my left and right hands are not for me to distribute. They are destined for others, and will be given to them.
|
|-
|41
|And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John.
|The other ten students grew indignant with James and John when they heard this.
|
|-
|42
|But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
|Jesus gathered them together and said, "You know that those who rule over the Gentiles rule like lords over them, and those with great titles exercise authority over them.
|
|-
|43
|But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
|It will be different for you. Anyone who wants to be great among you will first have to wait on you.
|Differentiate the truly "great" followers with the so-called "great" of the Gentiles
|-
|44
|And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
|"Whoever has first rank will be the servant of all others."
|The Greek word actually translates "slave." More to the point, this is the basis of the term ''servant leader'' that is the ideal in Christian ministry.
|-
|45
|For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
|"Because even I, the Son of Man, did not come to be waited on, but to wait on others, and give My life as payment for the souls of all."
|
|-
|46
|And they came to Jericho: and as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging.
|They reached [[Jericho]]. As Jesus and His students emerged from the city, followed by a large crowd of people, they saw a blind man named Bartimaeus son of Timaeus begging by the side of the road.
|Making clear to today's reader that Jericho was a city.
|-
|47
|And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|When He heard that Jesus of Nazareth was there, he began to shout, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me."
|
|-
|48
|And many charged him that he should hold his peace: but he cried the more a great deal, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|Others told him to shut up, but he only shouted louder, "You, Son of David, have mercy on me!"
|
|-
|49
|And Jesus stood still, and commanded him to be called. And they call the blind man, saying unto him, Be of good comfort, rise; he calleth thee.
|Jesus stopped in His tracks, asking that he be called over. Followers then welcomed the blind man, telling him, "Take heart and get up; He's calling you."
|
|-
|50
|And he, casting away his garment, rose, and came to Jesus.
|Arising, the man threw off his coat and came to Jesus.
|
|-
|51
|And Jesus answered and said unto him, What wilt thou that I should do unto thee? The blind man said unto him, Lord, that I might receive my sight.
|Jesus said to the blind man: "What do you want Me to do for you?" The man replied: "Sir, I want you to make me able to see."
|The original word used was '''Ραββουνι''' (''Rabboni''), an Aramaic word meaning the same thing as ''rabbi'', which can mean "Master" or simply "Sir" as we use it.
|-
|52
|And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
|Jesus said to him: "Go on your way; you have been healed because of your faith." The man immediately found that he could see, and started to follow Jesus' teachings.
|The Greek phrase '''ο οδος''' (''ho hodos''), translated as "The Way", was a common expression for all the teachings of Jesus.
|}

==Chapter 11==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And when they came nigh to Jerusalem, unto Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount of Olives, he sendeth forth two of his disciples,
|They came to Bethphage and Bethany, near Jerusalem at the Mount of Olives. Jesus sent two of His students.
|
|-
|2
|And saith unto them, Go your way into the village over against you: and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose him, and bring him.
|with these instructions: "Go to the next village ahead. Just within its limits, you'll find a tied up colt, which no man has ever sat upon. Untie him and bring him here.
|
|-
|3
|And if any man say unto you, Why do ye this? say ye that the Lord hath need of him; and straightway he will send him hither.
|If anyone asks you why you're doing so, tell them that the Lord needs the colt, and he will send the colt along at once."
|
|-
|4
|And they went their way, and found the colt tied by the door without in a place where two ways met; and they loose him.
|They went to complete their task, finding the colt tied up at a street crossing and releasing him.
|
|-
|5
|And certain of them that stood there said unto them, What do ye, loosing the colt?
|Some people loitering there asked, "why are you releasing that colt?"
|
|-
|6
|And they said unto them even as Jesus had commanded: and they let them go.
|The disciples said what Jesus had told them to say, and the people let them pass.
|
|-
|7
|And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him.
|They returned to Jesus, put their garments on the colt, and Jesus sat on it.
|The KJV uses "him" only because the original Greek word was masculine, not neutral.
|-
|8
|And many spread their garments in the way: and others cut down branches off the trees, and strawed them in the way.
|Lots of people put their clothes on Jesus' path, while others cut palm branches down and placed them on the path.
|
|-
|9
|And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:
|And all the people along the route sang "Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!
|In fact, this is a direct Greek translation of the Hebrew idiomatic phrase that means, "Welcome!" The word used for "blessed" here means "spoken well of" rather than "not-cut-off" as was quoted by Matthew and Luke at the Sermon on the Mount.

The word ''Hosanna'' is [[Aramaic]] for "Save, I pray."
|-
|10
|Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
|"Blessed is the kingdom of David, our father, which comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the highest."
|In other words, "Welcome to King David's kingdom."
|-
|11
|And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.
|Jesus entered Jerusalem and went into the temple, and when he had seen everything and it was evening, went to Bethany with the Twelve apostles.
|
|-
|12
|And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
|Leaving Bethany the following day, he was hungry.
|
|-
|13
|And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
|He saw a fig tree in the distance, which had leafed, and went to see if there was fruit upon it. But there was nothing but leaves, for the fig season hadn't begun.
|
|-
|14
|And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
|Jesus declared a parable in the hearing of His students, "no man will eat your fruit evermore."
|
|-
|15
|And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
|They entered Jerusalem and Jesus entered the [[Temple of Jerusalem|Temple]]. He threw out the vendors and toppled the moneychangers' tables and dove-sellers' seats.
|
|-
|16
|And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
|He would not let any man carry their wares through the temple.
|The spectacle of the commercialization of the Temple, carried out as it had been under the Pharisees' noses, stood as further indictment of their hypocrisy.
|-
|17
|And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
|He then taught the true doctrine: "Isn't it written that My house will be the house of prayer for all people? But you have turned it into a den of robbers."
|
|-
|18
|And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.
|The scribes and leading priests heard about this and conspired to destroy him, fearing him and the people who were amazed by his teaching.
|
|-
|19
|And when even was come, he went out of the city.
|In the evening, Jesus left the city.
|
|-
|20
|And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
|In the morning, they passed a fig tree which had dried from the roots up.
|
|-
|21
|And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
|Peter remembered what Jesus had said, and declared, "Master, look! The fig tree you condemned has withered away!"
|
|-
|22
|And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
|Jesus then provided the answer, "Have faith in God.
|
|-
|23
|For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
|I tell you the truth. Anyone who says to a mountain, 'move out of my way and jump into the sea,' and has no doubts in his soul but believes it will come to pass, that man's words will become true.
|This is the origin of the phrase "faith that can move mountains."
|-
|24
|Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
|So I tell you, if you pray for whatever you desire, and believe that you'll receieve it, you will.
|
|-
|25
|And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
|And when you're praying, forgive anyone that you have anything against, so that your father God in heaven will forgive you your sins as well."
|
|-
|26
|But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
|"If you don't forgive, God your heavenly father will not forgive you."
|The provenance of this verse is disputed. It is consistent with verse 25 above, but also redundant.
|-
|27
|And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple, there come to him the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders,
|When they returned to Jerusalem, the leading priests, scribes, and elders came to Him as He was walking in the Temple.
|
|-
|28
|And say unto him, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?
|And they asked him "Who gave you the authority to do these things?"
|
|-
|29
|And Jesus answered and said unto them, I will also ask of you one question, and answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things.
|Jesus replied, "If you will answer one question, I'll tell you by whose authority I do these things.
|
|-
|30
|The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.
|Tell me. Did John's baptism come from Heaven, or from men?"
|
|-
|31
|And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then did ye not believe him?
|They debated with each other, "If we say 'from heaven,' then He will reply, 'Then why didn't you believe him?'
|
|-
|32
|But if we shall say, Of men; they feared the people: for all men counted John, that he was a prophet indeed.
|But if we say, 'of men,...!'" In fact they were afraid of the people because everyone considered John a true prophet.
|
|-
|33
|And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things.
|So they replied to Jesus, "We don't know." And Jesus responded, "Neither do I reveal to you My authority for my deeds."
|By saying that they didn't know, the elites copped out, as Jesus knew they would.
|}

==Chapter 12==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
|Jesus began to teach them parables. "A businessman planted a vineyard and placed a hedge around it. He dug a place for the windpress, built a tower, rented it to tenant vinedressers, and traveled abroad.
|The literal Greek word is '''γεωργος''' or ''georgos'', from which comes the name '''Γεωργιος''' or ''Georgios'', the name of several [[saint]]s who doubtless had "workmanlike" dispositions. It might also be the origin of the expression, "Let George do it!"
|-
|2
|And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.
|When the grape season arrived, he sent one of his slaves to them, to return with the fruit of the vineyard.
|A slave in those days actually held a position of greater honor than one might at first suppose, depending on the nature and disposition of his owner.
|-
|3
|And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.
|But they caught him, beat him, and sent him back empty-handed.
|
|-
|4
|And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.
|So the owner sent another slave, but they threw stones at him, wounding him in the head. He too was rebuffed, badly treated.
|These are direct metaphors for the maltreatment of the [[prophet]]s.
|-
|5
|And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.
|He sent a third, and they killed him, as well as many others. They beat some, killed some.
|
|-
|6
|Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
|He still had a son, whom he loved, and sent him to them last, thinking they would respect his son.
|
|-
|7
|But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
|But the tenants plotted with each other: 'This is his heir. If we kill him, we can take the inheritance.'
|
|-
|8
|And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.
|So they killed him and left his body outside the vineyard.
|A direct metaphor for what will shortly happen to Jesus.
|-
|9
|What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
|So what should the vineyard owner do? He will return to annihilate the tenants and give the vineyard to other, more honest tenants.
|Clarification of "others"
|-
|10
|And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
|Have you not read in the scripture, 'The stone rejected by the builders becomes the cornerstone,
|
|-
|11
|This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
|This is the Lord's way, and it is wonderful to see'?"
|
|-
|12
|And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.
|Furious, the intellectual classes wanted to seize him, but feared the public; they knew this parable was directed at them. They gave up for now and walked out.
|
|-
|13
|And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.
|Instead they chose a group of Pharisees and Herodians, and sent them to Jesus to try and catch Him out by using His own words against Him.
|The Herodians were political partisans of [[Herod Antipas]] within Jewish society.
|-
|14
|And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
|When they came, they said to Him, "Teacher, we know that You are true, and play no favorites among men. You are no Respecter of persons, but teach the Way of God in truth. Now: is it lawful to pay capitation [[tax]]es to Caesar, or not?
|Literally, '''κηνσος''' or ''kensos'', a transliteration of the Latin ''census''. This was a head tax collected at the census. [[Joseph of Nazareth]] and his wife [[Mary]] had to pay such a tax.
|-
|15
|Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
|"What do we do: give, nor not?" But He, knowing full well how hypocritical they were, said to them, "Why are you always testing Me? Bring me a shilling, so that I may examine it."
|The "shilling" was a Roman denarius, worth one day's wages, and also the standard tax rate.
|-
|16
|And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
|They brought one. He said to them, "Whose face and epigram is this?" They told him, "Caesar's."
|
|-
|17
|And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
|In answer, Jesus told them, "Give Caesar what is Caesar's, and God what is God's." And they were struck completely speechless by Him.
|
|-
|18
|Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
|Then some Sadducees came to Him. They say that there is no such thing as the resurrection. They asked Him,
|The Sadducees, followers of one Zadok, discounted anything "mystical" or miraculous in the [[Bible]]. Today, they would probably be [[evolutionism|evolutionists]].
|-
|19
|Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
|"Teacher, Moses wrote this law: 'If a man's brother dies, and leaves a wife but no children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up a son to inherit his brother's estate.'
|The Levirate Law.
|-
|20
|Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
|Now there were seven brothers. The first married a wife, and died without issue.
|
|-
|21
|And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
|Then the second married her, then died, and also left no issue. So did the third.
|
|-
|22
|And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
|Indeed all seven married her, and left no issue. Last of all the woman died.
|
|-
|23
|In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
|Now: in the resurrection, when they're all risen from the dead, whose wife will she be? After all, all seven married her!"
|This Levirate Riddle is quite similar to the [[Logical fallacy|logically fallacious]] arguments that evolutionists raise against [[creationism|creationists]] today.
|-
|24
|And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
|Jesus replied, "You are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
|
|-
|25
|For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
|You see, when they rise from the dead, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. They'll be like God's Messengers in heaven.
|Meaning, the [[angels]]. Here is a declaration that angels do not procreate, nor will resurrected people be in a position to repopulate the earth after the War of Armageddon (see Revelation 19).
|-
|26
|And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
|And while we're on the subject: I'll prove to you that the dead will rise. Haven't you read in the Books of Moses, how God spoke to him in a burning bush, saying, 'I am the God of [[Abraham]], and the God of [[Isaac]], and the God of [[Jacob]]?'
|
|-
|27
|He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
|He isn't the God of dead men, but the God of living men. So you are vastly mistaken."
|
|-
|28
|And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
|One of the scribes came, who had heard them debating this issue, and realizing that He had given a good answer to the riddle. So he asked Him, "Which is the most important commandment of all?"
|
|-
|29
|And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
|Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One."
|A direct quote from the [[Septuagint]].
|-
|30
|And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
|And you will love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and all your mind, and all your strength. This is the most important commandment.
|
|-
|31
|And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
|The second most important commandment is just like it: you shall love your neighbor as you love yourself. No other commandment is more important than these two."
|
|-
|32
|And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
|The scribe said back to Him, "Well, Teacher, You speak the truth: 'There is one God, and there is no one else but Him,
|
|-
|33
|And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
|and to love Him with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love one's neighbor as one loves himself, is more important than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices a man can make.'"
|
|-
|34
|And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
|Jesus saw that he had given a sensible answer. So He said to him, "You aren't far from the Kingdom of God." After that, no man dared ask Him anything.
|
|-
|35
|And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?
|Jesus said in answer, while He was teaching in the Temple, "How can the scribes say that Christ is the Son of [[David]]?
|
|-
|36
|For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
|After all, David himself said, under the influence of the Divine Guide, 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit on My right hand, until I make Your enemies something to put Your feet on."'
|
|-
|37
|David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
|So David himself calls Him Lord. So how can He be his son?" And many people were glad to hear this.
|
|-
|38
|And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
|In His lessons He told them, "Watch out for the scribes. They want to go about in long clothing, and want people to greet them in the public square.
|
|-
|39
|And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
|They want the seats of honor in the synagogues, and the ranking dining rooms at banquets.
|
|-
|40
|Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
|And they also devour widows' homes, and put up a pretense by making long prayers. They will receive an even greater punishment."
|
|-
|41
|And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
|Jesus was sitting next to the treasury, and watched how people threw money into the treasury. Many rich people threw in a lot of money.
|
|-
|42
|And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
|Then came a certain poor widow, who threw in two mites, which together were worth a quarter-penny.
|The "mite" is the '''λεπτον''' (''lepton''), a [[copper]] coin of very low value. Two leptons made a '''κοδραντον''' (''kodranton'') or Roman quadrant. Four quadrants made an assarion (the "penny" of the day), and ten assaria made a denarius ("shilling").
|-
|43
|And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
|He called His students to Him, and told them, "I tell you truly: This poor widow has thrown in more money than everyone else combined.
|
|-
|44
|For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
|All they did was to throw in a sample of their abundance. She, in her poverty, threw in everything she had, even everything she had to live on."
|
|}

==Chapter 13==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
|As they left the temple, one of Jesus' students said, "Teacher, just look at the sort of stones and magnificient buildings in this place!"
|
|-
|2
|And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
|Jesus responded, "See these grand buildings? Not one stone will remain atop another which will not be destroyed."
|The future Emperor Titus would bring about that destruction in AD 70.
|-
|3
|And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
|As Jesus sat atop the Mount of Olives, looking at the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew requested a private conference. They asked,
|
|-
|4
|Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
|"When will these events take place, and what will be the sign of their fulfillment?"
|
|-
|5
|And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
|Jesus answered them, "Be on guard and don't let any man fool you.
|
|-
|6
|For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
|Many will come shouting My Name and say 'I am Christ!', and will fool many people.
|
|-
|7
|And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
|When you hear news of war and false rumor about them, don't worry, because they must occur but will not be the end.
|
|-
|8
|For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
|Ethnic groups and nation-states will attack one another. Earthquakes will occur in many lands. Famine and chaos will rule. These are the beginnings of the birth-pains.
|
|-
|9
|But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
|So take care of yourselves. The masses will hand you over to the tribunals, you will be beaten in houses of worship, and be hauled before leaders and kings for My sake, to testify against them.
|
|-
|10
|And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
|The good news has to be published among all ethnic groups first.
|
|-
|11
|But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
|But when they drag you in or betray you, do not worry about what to say. In that hour, you will be given the words to say, because the Divine Guide will be speaking for you and through you.
|
|-
|12
|Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
|Brother will betray brother to his death, father to son, children will rebel against their parents, and shall sign their death warrants.
|
|-
|13
|And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
|And you will be hated by every man on account of My Name, but you will be saved if you endure to the end.
|
|-
|14
|But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
|And when you see the Abomination of Desolation standing where it shouldn't - let the reader understand - then everyone living in Judea must flee into the mountains.
|The phrase "spoken of by Daniel the prophet" does not appear here, though Matthew and Luke both use it.
|-"let the reader understand" - ho anaginoskon is "the [one] reading", or the reader; compare Revelation 1:3
|15
|And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
|If you're standing on the housetop, don't go down or into the house to take anything out.
|
|-
|16
|And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
|If you're in the field, don't turn back even to get your cloak.
|
|-
|17
|But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
|And it will be bad for pregnant and nursing women in those days!
|
|-
|18
|And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
|And pray that you don't have to flee in the wintertime.
|
|-
|19
|For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
|In those days you will see such oppression as has not been seen from the beginning of God's creation until today, nor will ever be seen again.
|
|-
|20
|And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
|If the Lord hadn't limited those days, no flesh would survive. But for the sake of His chosen ones, He has set a limit on the time.
|
|-
|21
|And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
|And then if any man tells you, 'Look! Here's Christ!' or 'Look! There He is!', don't believe him.
|
|-
|22
|For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
|False Christs and false prophets will rise up, working enough signs and wonders to lead even the chosen ones down the garden trail, if that were possible.
|
|-
|23
|But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
|But you look sharp: I have forewarned you about everything.
|
|-
|24
|But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
|"But in those days that follow that oppression, the [[sun]] will go dark, and the [[moon]] not give her light,
|The Greek word '''φεγγος''' (''phengos'') means a secondary or reflected light, in contrast to '''φως''' (''phos''), which means primary light.
|-
|25
|And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
|The stars of the sky will fall, and the powers in heaven will be shaken.
|The "falling stars" are likely [[meteor]]s.
|-
|26
|And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
|Then people shall see 'the Son of man coming in the clouds' with great power and glory.
|
|-
|27
|And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
|Then He will send His Messengers, and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from the furthest part of the earth to the furthest part of the sky.
|
|-
|28
|Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
|You can learn a great deal from the fig tree: when its branch is still tender, and it's putting out leaves, you know that summer is coming.
|The [[KJV]] uses "her" because the Greek word for a fig tree is feminine.
|-
|29
|So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
|Similarly, when you see these things happening, you know that My return is practically at your door.
|
|-
|30
|Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
|I tell you truly: this generation will not pass away until all these things happen.
|
|-
|31
|Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
|Heaven and earth might pass away, but My Words will not pass away.
|
|-
|32
|But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
|But no man knows about that day or that hour. Even the Messengers in heaven don't know. I, the Son, don't know. Only the Father knows.
|
|-
|33
|Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
|Take care and stay alert, because you don't know what time it is.
|Some manuscripts say "watch and pray."
|-
|34
|For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
|The Son of man is like a man traveling abroad, who left his house, and gave his slaves the proper authority, and a work assignment to every man, and ordered the doorkeeper to keep watch.
|
|-
|35
|Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
|So you keep watch. You don't know when the master of the house is coming. He could come in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or later in the morning.
|
|-
|36
|Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
|Don't let Him catch you napping!
|
|-
|37
|And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
|I'm telling you what I'm telling everyone: stay on watch."
|
|}

==Chapter 14 (the [[Last Supper]] begins at 14:17; the [[Passion of Christ]] begins at 14:55)==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
|Two days later, it was time for the the Passover holiday of unleavened bread, and the leading priests and scribes were trying to figure out how to catch Him by stealth and have Him executed.
|
|-
|2
|But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.
|But they said, "Not on the day of the festival! Do you want to have a riot among the people?"
|
|-
|3
|And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
|At that time, he was in Bethany at Simon the leper's house, having a meal. A woman came in with an expensive white crystal container of valerian oil, which she opened and poured over his head.
|
|-
|4
|And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
|Some of the onlookers were indignant, saying "Why did she waste that nice oil like that?
|
|-
|5
|For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
|We could have sold that for more than three hundred shillings and charitably donated the money to the poor!" They kept whispering about what a bad thing she had done.
|This oil was expensive indeed: a day's wages for three hundred men.
|-
|6
|And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.
|But Jesus said, "Leave her alone; why are you bothering her? She had done Me a favor.
|
|-
|7
|For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
|There will always be poor people around, and whenever you feel like helping them you can, but I am not going to be around forever.
|
|-
|8
|She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
|She did what she could: She came in advance to get my body ready for burial.
|
|-
|9
|Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.
|Truly I tell you: Anywhere in the world that people preach the good news about me, they are also going to remember what she did and talk about it."
|
|-
|10
|And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.
|After that, Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve apostles, went to betray Jesus to the leading priests,
|
|-
|11
|And when they heard it, they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought how he might conveniently betray him.
|who were happy to hear it and offered to pay him. So Judas thought about how it would be best to do the deed, and the best time to do it.
|
|-
|12
|And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
|So on the first day of the Passover holiday, after they killed the lamb, the students of Jesus said to him, "Where do you want us to go and get this lamb ready for you to eat?"
|
|-
|13
|And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
|He answered by sending two of the students to go to town. He told them, "Go into the city, and you'll find a man carrying a pitcher of water. Follow him.
|
|-
|14
|And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
|When he goes into a house, tell the man in charge, 'Our teacher wants to know where the dining room is, so we can eat our lamb.'
|The Greek '''καταλυμα''' means "upper room." Any homeowner kept this upper room, the best room in the house, for his guests, but the modern equivalent is "dining room." Can "lamb" be improved?
|-
|15
|And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.
|He will show you a large room on the second floor, furnished and already prepared. Prepare for us there."
|
|-
|16
|And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
|So the students went into town, and it happened exactly like he had told them, so they got the lamb ready to eat.
|
|-
|17
|And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
|That evening, Jesus and the Twelve arrived.
|
|-
|18
|And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.
|While they were sitting and eating, Jesus said, "Truly I tell you, one of you who is eating with Me here will betray Me."
|
|-
|19
|And they began to be sorrowful, and to say unto him one by one, Is it I? and another said, Is it I?
|They became very upset, and one after another said, "You don't mean me, do You?" "It's not I, is it?"
|
|-
|20
|And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.
|Jesus told them, "It is one of you - the one who dips his bread in the bowl with me.
|
|-
|21
|The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
|The Son of man will die as the Scriptures said, but as for the man who betrays the Son of man, he would have been better off if he had never been born."
|
|-
|22
|And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
|And while they were eating, Jesus took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and distributed it, saying "Take this and eat it. This is My body."
|
|-
|23
|And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
|And He took the cup, said a prayer, and passed it around, and everybody drank some.
|
|-
|24
|And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
|Then he said to them, "This is My blood of the New Testament, which I bled for the sake of many people.
|
|-
|25
|Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
|Truly I say to you, I shall not drink wine again until the day I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."
|Again, the "wine" of those days was not fermented.
|-
|26
|And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
|Then, after they had sung a hymn, they went out into the Mount of Olives,
|
|-
|27
|And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.
|where Jesus told them, "All of you are going to have doubts about Me tonight. It is prophesied,
'I will kill the shepherd, and then the sheep will be scattered.'
|
|-
|28
|But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee.
|But I shall rise and I shall go into Galilee before you."
|
|-
|29
|But Peter said unto him, Although all shall be offended, yet will not I.
|But Peter said, "Even if everyone doubts You, I never will."
|
|-
|30
|And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.
|And Jesus said to him, "Hear me when I say that tonight, before the rooster crows twice, you are going to disavow Me three times."
|
|-
|31
|But he spake the more vehemently, If I should die with thee, I will not deny thee in any wise. Likewise also said they all.
|But Peter protested, with agitation, "Even if I end up having to die with you, I'll never disavow you." Everyone chimed in to say the same.
|
|-
|32
|And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane: and he saith to his disciples, Sit ye here, while I shall pray.
|By now, they were at a place called Gethsemane. Jesus told his disciples, "Take a seat here, everyone. I want to pray."
|
|-
|33
|And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;
|Then he went away from them, taking Peter, James, and John, and he became very upset and distressed.
|
|-
|34
|And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.
|He said to them, "My soul is dying of sadness. Stay here and keep your eyes open."
|
|-
|35
|And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
|He wandered away a little, and fell to the ground. He prayed that if there were any possible way, he wouldn't have to go through what was to come.
|
|-
|36
|And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
|He said, "Oh Father, anything is possible for you. I don't want this fate. Take it away. But let it be what you want, not what I want."
|He used the Hebrew word ''abba'', which is the equivalent of "Daddy."
|-
|37
|And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?
|When he came back and found His students sleeping, he said to Peter, "Simon are you sleeping? Couldn't you keep your eyes open for an hour?
|
|-
|38
|Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
|Keep them open and pray, or else you might fail the test. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."
|
|-
|39
|And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words.
|Again, he went away and prayed, and he said the same thing again.
|
|-
|40
|And when he returned, he found them asleep again, (for their eyes were heavy,) neither wist they what to answer him.
|When he got back, he found them asleep again (they were really tired), and they had no idea how to answer him.
|
|-
|41
|And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
|The third time he came back, he told them, "Just sleep now. I have prayed enough, and the time has come for the Son of man to be betrayed into the hands of sinners.
|
|-
|42
|Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.
|Get up, we must go. Look, the betrayer is here."
|
|-
|43
|And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders.
|And just as he was saying that, Judas came in, along with many armed men, sent by the leading priests, scribes, and elders.
|the meaning of "from" is most likely "sent by"
|-
|44
|And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead him away safely.
|The betrayer had made an arrangement with them: "The man I kiss is the man you want. Take him and keep him safe."
|
|-
|45
|And as soon as he was come, he goeth straightway to him, and saith, Master, master; and kissed him.
|And as soon as he was there, he went directly to Jesus, saying "Rabbi! Rabbi!" and kissed him.
|
|-
|46
|And they laid their hands on him, and took him.
|And the armed people grabbed Jesus and took him away.
|
|-
|47
|And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
|But one of the men who were standing by drew a sword and struck the high priest's slave, cutting off his ear.
|Luke (but not Matthew or Mark) identifies this one as Peter. The sword used was the '''μαχαιρα''' (''machaira''), or ''gladius'' in [[Latin]]. This short sword was the typical service weapon of a Roman infantryman.
|-
|48
|And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and with staves to take me?
|Jesus said, "Are you coming to get me with your swords and sticks as you would an insurrectionist?
|
|-
|49
|I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.
|I was right there with you, teaching in the temple every single day, and you never came for me then. But the scriptures will have to be fulfilled."
|
|-
|50
|And they all forsook him, and fled.
|Then they all abandoned him and fled.
|
|-
|51
|And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him:
|A young man there following him, with a linen sheet wrapped around his naked body, when he was grabbed by the men.
|While it is likely this boy was Mark, the author, the original text uses the third person.
|-
|52
|And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.
|He ran away naked, leaving the sheet behind.
|
|-
|53
|And they led Jesus away to the high priest: and with him were assembled all the chief priests and the elders and the scribes.
|Then the armed men took Jesus to the [[High Priest]], and all the leading priests, elders, and scribes were assembled there.
|This was the midnight meeting of the [[Sanhedrin]].
|-
|54
|And Peter followed him afar off, even into the palace of the high priest: and he sat with the servants, and warmed himself at the fire.
|Peter followed from a distance, all the way into the High Priest's palace, and he sat down at the fire with the attendants to keep warm.
|
|-
|55
|And the chief priests and all the council sought for witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found none.
|The leading priests and the rest of the [[Sanhedrin]] asked for testimony against Jesus so they could put him to death, but found none.
|
|-
|56
|For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.
|There was much false testimony, and the witnesses contradicted each other.
|
|-
|57
|And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,
|Then certain particularly deceitful witnesses said,
|
|-
|58
|We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
|"We heard Him say, 'I will destroy this handmade temple, and within three days I will build another without using My hands."
|
|-
|59
|But neither so did their witness agree together.
|But these witnesses also contradicted each other.
|
|-
|60
|And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
|The High Priest stood up and asked Jesus, "Do you have nothing to say? Just what are they saying about you?"
|
|-
|61
|But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
|Jesus kept silent. The High Priest started interrogating him again: "Are you the Christ, the Son of the blessed?"
|
|-
|62
|And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
|Jesus answered, saying "I am, and you all are going to see the Son of man sitting at the right hand side of power and coming in the clouds of heaven."
|
|-
|63
|Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
|The High Priest ripped his shirt down the middle, saying "We don't need any more witnesses!
|This ritual tearing of the shirt was a sign of deep mourning and indignation. But in fact the High Priest violated a regulation governing his own conduct when he did this.
|-
|64
|Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
|You all heard the blasphemy, now how do you vote?" And they all condemned him to death.
|
|-
|65
|And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him, Prophesy: and the servants did strike him with the palms of their hands.
|Some of them spat on him. They put a bag over his head and punched him. They taunted him, "Tell us the future, Prophet!", and the attendants slapped him.
|Capitalized on account of Who He is, not on account of what the Sanhedrin members and their attendants thought He was.

Some manuscripts say that they said in effect, "Who hit You? Guess!"
|-
|66
|And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:
|Meanwhile, Peter was downstairs in the palace, when one of the high priest's maids came by.
|
|-
|67
|And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of Nazareth.
|And when she saw Peter warming himself, she looked at him and said, "You were with Jesus of Nazareth."
|
|-
|68
|But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.
|He denied it, saying, "I do not know what you are talking about." And as he went out to the porch, the rooster crowed.
|
|-
|69
|And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them.
|And another maid saw him, and said to the bystanders, "This is one of them."
|
|-
|70
|And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto.
|But he denied it again. And again the bystanders said to Peter, "Surely, you are one of them, for your accent is Galilean."
|
|-
|71
|But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye speak.
|But he began to swear, saying, "I do not know the man you speak of."
|
|-
|72
|And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.
|And the cock crowed for the second time. Peter recalled what Jesus had told him, "Before the cock crows twice, you will deny Me three times." And he wept at the thought.
|
|}

==Chapter 15==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.
|In the morning the high priests held an urgent consultations with the elders and scribes, and the full membership of the [[Sanhedrin]], and decided to take Jesus to Pontius Pilate.
|
|-
|2
|And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
|Pilate asked Him, "Are you the King of the Jews?" And in answer He said, "You say that."
|
|-
|3
|And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing.
|And the leading priests accused Him of many things, but He did not answer.
|
|-
|4
|And Pilate asked him again, saying, Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they witness against thee.
|Pilate asked Him again, "Have You nothing to say? Look at how many accusations they make against You."
|
|-
|5
|But Jesus yet answered nothing; so that Pilate marvelled.
|But Jesus said nothing, and Pilate was shocked as he had never been shocked before in his career.
|
|-
|6
|Now at that feast he released unto them one prisoner, whomsoever they desired.
|Now at Passover, Pilate always released one prisoner, chosen by the people.
|
|-
|7
|And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection.
|There was one named Barabbas, who was imprisoned because he had rebelled and committed murder in the rebellion.
|
|-
|8
|And the multitude crying aloud began to desire him to do as he had ever done unto them.
|And the crowds cried aloud, begging Pilate to release a prisoner as he always had.
|
|-
|9
|But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
|So Pilate answered them, saying "Do you wish me to release the King of the Jews?"
|
|-
|10
|For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy.
|Since he knew the leading priests had brought Jesus to him out of envy of His popularity.
|
|-
|11
|But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.
|But the leading priests influenced the people to request the release of Barabbas.
|
|-
|12
|And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?
|So Pilate said to the crowds, "What, then, do you wish me to do to the Man you call the King of the Jews?"
|
|-
|13
|And they cried out again, Crucify him.
|And the crowds cried out, "Crucify Him."
|
|-
|14
|Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.
|So Pilate said to them, "Why? What has he done wrong?" And they cried out louder, "Crucify Him!"
|
|-
|15
|And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.
|So Pilate, to keep the people content, released Barabbas to them, and had Jesus scourged and sent to be crucified.
|
|-
|16
|And the soldiers led him away into the hall, called Praetorium; and they call together the whole band.
|The soldiers then took Him into the garrison barracks (the Praetorium) and summoned the entire garrison.
|
|-
|17
|And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,
|They dressed Him in purple and made a wreath of thorns, which they stuck on His head.
|
|-
|18
|And began to salute him, Hail, King of the Jews!
|They then began to deliver mocking salutes: "Hail, King of the Jews!"
|
|-
|19
|And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.
|They beat His head with a stick and spat on Him, and genuflected in mock worship of Him.
|The Greek words clearly say that the soldiers bowed the knee to Him.
|-
|20
|And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple from him, and put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him.
|After mocking Him, they stripped Him of the purple robe, dressed Him in His own clothes, and led Him out to crucify Him.
|
|-
|21
|And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.
|They forced a man named Simon, a Cyrenian, father of Alexander and Rufus, who was then coming out of the field, to carry His cross.
|
|-
|22
|And they bring him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpreted, The place of a skull.
|They brought Him to the place called Golgotha, or "Skull Hill."
|
|-
|23
|And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not.
|They gave Him grape juice mixed with myrrh to drink, but He refused it.
|
|-
|24
|And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
|When they had crucified Him, they divided His clothes among them by gambling for it.
|use the modern term of "gambling" here; see [[Bible on Addiction]]
|-
|25
|And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
|They crucified Him on the third hour of the day.
|
|-
|26
|And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
|The epigram of his accusation was written over His head: THE KING OF THE JEWS.
|
|-
|27
|And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.
|They also crucified two robbers with Him, one on His right and the other on His left.
|
|-
|28
|And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
|With this deed the Scripture was fulfilled, which said, "And He was counted along with the lawless."
|The provenance of this verse is in dispute.
|-
|29
|And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads, and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days,
|The passersby railed at him, wagging their heads. They said, "Hey, You! You said You could destroy the Temple and rebuild it in three days.
|
|-
|30
|Save thyself, and come down from the cross.
|So save Yourself and come down from the cross!"
|
|-
|31
|Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.
|In the same way the leading priests, in a mocking tone, said to themselves with the scribes, "He saved others, but can't save Himself.
|
|-
|32
|Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
|Let Christ the King of [[Israel]] come down now from the cross! Seeing is believing!" And the men being crucified with Him also insulted Him.
|
|-
|33
|And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.
|When the sixth hour arrived, darkness fell over the whole country until the ninth hour.
|This period lasted from noon to three p.m.
|-
|34
|And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
|At the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, ''"Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?"'' (Translation: "My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me?")
|
|-
|35
|And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
|Some of the bystanders, when they heard it, said, "Listen, he's calling [[Elijah]]."
|
|-
|36
|And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
|One of them ran and filled a sponge with vinegar, put it on a stick, and gave it to Him to drink. Others said, "Leave Him alone. Let's see whether Elijah will come to take Him down."
|
|-
|37
|And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
|Jesus shouted something with a loud voice, and breathed his last.
|Literally, "gave up the breath."
|-
|38
|And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
|Then the veil of the Temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
|
|-
|39
|And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
|When the centurion, who stood next to Him, saw Him cry out and heave his death-sigh, he said, "Truly this Man was the Son of God."
|Here and elsewhere, Mark uses the word '''κεντυριων''', which is "centurion" transliterated into Greek. Luke and the others always use the word '''εκατονταρχος''' (''hekatontarchos''), literally, "leader of a hundred."
|-
|40
|There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
|Some women were also watching from a distance, including Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joseph, and Salome.
|This is ''not'' the little girl who asked for the head of [[John the Baptist]] on a plate! Josephus gives that little girl the name ''Salome'', as well.
|-
|41
|(Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.
|These women had followed Him while He was in Galilee, and used to wait on Him. With them were many other women who had followed Him to Jerusalem.
|The Greek phrase is "came up," a reference to Jerusalem's elevation of 800 meters, higher than that of the surrounding countryside.
|-
|42
|And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
|Now in the evening, because it was preparation time, i.e. the day before the Sabbath,
|
|-
|43
|Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counseller, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
|Joseph of Arimathea, an honorable member of the council, who was also waiting for the Kingdom of God, came forward, went in boldly to Pilate, and claimed the body of Jesus.
|
|-
|44
|And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
|Pilate was shocked to hear that He was already dead. He called the centurion to ask him whether He was dead already.
|
|-
|45
|And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
|When the centurion confirmed it, Pilate gave Joseph permission to take possession of the body.
|
|-
|46
|And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
|Joseph then purchased a quality shroud, and carried Jesus off, wrapped Him in the shroud, and laid Him in a tomb cut out of rock, and rolled a stone to cover the entrance of the tomb.
|ἐπί: the [[NASB]] says "against", but it's a clearer rendition of the original meaning to say "to cover."
|-
|47
|And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.
|Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joseph saw the place where He was laid.
|
|}

==Chapter 16==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
|After the sabbath had come and gone, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome, bought aromatic spices with which to anoint Jesus' body.
|
|-
|2
|And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
|Very early in the morning on the day after the sabbath, they came to the tomb of Jesus at sunrise.
|
|-
|3
|And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
|And the women said to each other, "Who will roll away the stone blocking the tomb door?"
|
|-
|4
|And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
|But when they looked, they saw that the massive stone had been rolled to the side.
|Neither pronoun nor article appears, but only a verb ending.
|-
|5
|And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
|And as they entered the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, wearing a long white garment, and they were afraid.
|
|-
|6
|And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
|The man said to them, "Don't be afraid. You're looking for Jesus of Nazareth, Who was crucified. He has been raised up, He is not here - look at the place where they laid Him.
|
|-
|7
|But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
|Leave now, and tell Peter and the students of Jesus that He has gone ahead of you into Galilee: you will see him there, as he told you."
|
|-
|8
|And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
|They left quickly and ran away from the tomb, shaking and ecstatic both at once. They were so afraid that they didn't say a word to any man.
|The Gospel According to Mark, strictly speaking, ends here. Mark deliberately left it in an unfinished state. Later copyists added a "closing verse," while others added the remaining verses in this table.<ref>http://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html</ref>
|-
|9
|Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
|
|
|-
|10
|And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
|
|
|-
|11
|And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
|
|
|-
|12
|After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
|
|
|-
|13
|And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
|
|
|-
|14
|Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
|
|
|-
|15
|And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
|
|
|-
|16
|He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
|
|
|-
|17
|And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
|
|
|-
|18
|They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
|
|
|-
|19
|So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
|
|
|-
|20
|And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
|
|
|}

[[Mark 1-8 (Translated)]]

== References ==

{{reflist|1}}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Alexander Koral

2013-02-26T20:30:23Z

Onestone: whom > who

<div style="float: right; border: 1px solid #8888aa; background: #f7f8ff; padding: 5px; font-size: 85%; margin: 0 15px 0 15px; text-align: center;">
<div style="background: #ccf; font-weight: bold; padding: 1px 3px 1px 3px;">This article is part of the [[Venona project|Venona]] series.</div>
[[CPUSA#Secret_apparatus|Secret apparatus]] 
[[KGB]] 
[[Silvermaster group]]
</div>

'''Alexander Koral''' was an American member of the [[Communist Party of the United States]] (CPUSA) who headed a network of spies for [[NKVD|Soviet intelligence]] during [[World War II]] called the "Art" or "Berg" group. Koral's wife, [[Helen Koral]], also was involved with the group.

The [[FBI]] first detected Koral in 1941 while surveiling [[Gaik Ovakimian]], who the FBI did not realize at the time was the head of KGB operations in the United States. The FBI noted Ovakimian meeting several times with Koral, though no espionage could be proved. Koral was working at the time as a school district maintenance man.

After [[World War II]], in 1947 Koral confessed when confronted by the FBI to being a courier for the KGB from 1939 to 1945. Koral told the FBI he was paid two thousand dollars to travel to different cities to pick up and deliver small packages and envelopes to different persons, including [[Greg Silvermaster]] and [[Helen Silvermaster]]. In December 1945 Koral was sent to tell Silvermaster “no more visits would be made to him”, at the time of [[Elizabeth Bentley]]'s defection and the Soviet networks were being compromised. Koral identified [[Semyon Semenov]] as one of his contacts in Soviet intelligence to whom he had delivered materials.

Koral was also a contact of [[Michael Whitney Straight|Michael Straight]]. Koral's code name in the Soviet intelligence, and as deciphered in the venona decrypts is "Berg".

====Venona====
Alexander Koral is referenced in the following [[Venona project]] decrypts:

*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/02_sept_1944_r6_m2_p2.gif 1251 KGB New York to Moscow, 2 September 1944]
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/18_sept_1944_r6_m1_p1.gif 1332 KGB New York to Moscow, 18 September 1944], p.1
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/18_sept_1944_r6_m1_p2.gif 1332 KGB New York to Moscow, 18 September 1944], p.2
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/12_Nov_1944_R3_m1_p1.gif 1582 KGB New York to Moscow, 12 November 1944]
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/21_Nov_1944_R3_m2_p1.gif 1636 KGB New York to Moscow, 21 November 1944], p.1
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/21_Nov_1944_R3_m2_p2.gif 1636 KGB New York to Moscow, 21 November 1944], p.2
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/21_Nov_1944_R3_m2_p3.gif 1636 KGB New York to Moscow, 21 November 1944], p.3
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/22_Dec_1944_R3_m1_p1.gif 1803 KGB New York to Moscow, 22 December 1944], p. 1
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/22_Dec_1944_R3_m1_p2.gif 1803 KGB New York to Moscow, 22 December 1944], p. 2
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/11_Jan_1945_R3_m3_p1.gif 50 KGB New York to Moscow, 11 January 1945], p. 1
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/11_Jan_1945_R3_m3_p2.gif 50 KGB New York to Moscow, 11 January 1945], p. 2
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/05_Jul_1945_R3_m1_p1.gif 1052 KGB New York to Moscow, 5 July 1945]
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/25_Mar_1945_R3_p1.gif 275 KGB Moscow to New York, 25 March 1945]
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/08_Apr_1945_R3_m4_p1.gif 337 KGB Moscow to New York, 8 April 1945], p. 1
*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/08_Apr_1945_R3_m4_p1.gif 337 KGB Moscow to New York, 8 April 1945], p. 1

*[http://www.nsa.gov/venona/releases/08_Apr_1945_R3_m4_p2.gif 337 KGB Moscow to New York, 8 April 1945], p. 2

====References====
*Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev, ''The Haunted Wood: Soviet Espionage in America—the Stalin Era'' (New York: Random House, 1999).
* New York FBI memo, 7 December 1945, FBI Silvermaster file, serial 248.
*Ladd to Hoover, 12 December 1945, FBI Silvermaster file, serial 235.
*Koral statement, 11 June 1947, FBI Silvermaster file, serial 2608.
*Alexander Koral interview summary, 9 June 1947, FBI Silvermaster file, serial 2571.
*FBI memorandum, “Existing Corroboration of Bentley's Overall Testimony,” 6 May 1955, FBI Silvermaster file, serial 4201.
*Alexander Vassiliev, ''Untitled Notes on Anatoly Gorsky’s December 1948 Memo on the Failed American Networks'' (2003)
*David Caute, ''The Great Fear: The Anti-Communist Purge under Truman and Eisenhower'' (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978), pg. 156.
* Nigel West and Oleg Tsarev, The Crown Jewels: The British Secrets at the Heart of the KGB Archives (London: HarperCollins, 1998)
*Michael Straight, After Long Silence (New York: Norton, 1983)
*[http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0RMQ/is_25_10/ai_n14726773 ''Professors of Denial, Ignoring the Truth About American Communists''] ''Weekly Standard'', 21 March 2005 by Harvey Klehr, John Earl Haynes
* John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, ''Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America'', Yale University Press (1999), pgs. 151–152, 157, 353, 415n91, 455.

{{DEFAULTSORT:Koral, Alexander}}
[[Category:KGB Agents and Sources]]

Ukrainian language

2013-02-25T17:06:03Z

Onestone:

[[Image:Translit.gif|thumb|right|200px|Transliteration Chart of Ukrainian]]
'''Ukrainian''' (Ukrainian: Українська) is an [[Eastern Slavonic]] language. It is closely related to [[Russian language|Russian]] and [[Belarus|Belarusian]], but it is distinctly different than these languages. The 33 letters are in the [[Cyrillic alphabet]]. It is spoken as the state language in [[Ukraine]], and there groups of speakers in many other countries including [[Argentina]], [[Armenia]], [[Australia]], [[Azerbaijan]], [[Belarus]], [[Brazil]], [[Canada]], [[Estonia]], [[Georgia]], [[Hungary]], [[Kazakhstan]], [[Kyrgyzstan]], [[Latvia]], [[Lithuania]], [[Moldova]], [[Paraguay]], [[Poland]], [[Romania]], [[Russia]] and [[Slovakia]]. Under Russian and [[Soviet]] rule, the Ukrainian language was suppressed due to the attempted [[Russification]] of everything Ukrainian. A Tsarist decree in 1876 banned the printing or importing of Ukrainian language books in Ukraine. Since Ukraine's independence in 1991, Ukrainian has been the state language<ref>http://http://www.rada.kiev.ua/const/const1.htm</ref>, yet many Russians in Ukraine refuse to speak the official Language. Ukrainian is, however, the language of the majority<ref>http://ukrcensus.gov.ua/rus/results/general/language/city_kyiv/</ref>. Ukrainian is mainly used in the Western part of the country. There are several [[dialects]] of Ukrainian spoken today<ref>http://litopys.org.ua/ukrmova/um156.htm</ref>

==References==
<references/>

==External Links==
[http://lingresua.tripod.com/online/ Online Ukrainian Dictionary]

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/ukrainian/index.shtml Online Ukrainian Radio]

[http://www.ukma.kiev.ua/pub/courses/UFL/ Ukrainian Lessons]

[http://www2.pravda.com.ua/en/news/2005/11/28/4896.htm Status of Ukrainian] Ukrainska Pravda, 28.11.2005. Retrieved 4.5.2007.

[http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=ukr Gordon, Raymond G., Jr. (ed.), 2005. Ethnologue: Languages of the World, Fifteenth edition. Dallas, Tex.: SIL International. Online version: Ukraine]

[[category:Slavic languages]]
[[category:Ukraine]]

Polish language

2013-02-25T17:01:12Z

Onestone: typo

'''Polish''' (''Polska'') is a [[Slavic languages|Slavic]] language spoken by over 70 million people, mainly in [[Poland]] and by communities of Poles worldwide (mostly in the [[United States]], [[Germany]], [[Brazil]], [[Israel]] and [[Canada]]). It is a West Slavic language, most closely related to [[Czech_language|Czech]] and [[Slovak_language|Slovak]]. It is an official language of the [[European Union]]].

Polish has several letters and diacritics not present in [[English]]. The tables below give an introductory guide to pronunciation and transcription:<ref>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~atpc/learn/tools/pl-alphabet.html</ref>

==Alphabet==

* Aa = English 'ah'
* Ąą = English 'on'
* Bb = English 'b'
* Cc = English 't'+'s'
* Ćć = English 'ch' soft
* Dd = English 'd'
* Ee = English 'e'
* Ęę = English 'en'
* Ff = English 'f'
* Gg = English 'g' hard
* Hh = English 'h'
* Ii = English 'i'
* Jj = English 'y'
* Kk = English 'k'
* Ll = English 'l'
* Łł = English 'w'
* Mm = English 'm'
* Nn = English 'n'
* Ńń = English 'n'
* Oo = English 'oh'
* Óó = English 'ou'
* Pp = English 'p'
* Rr = English 'r' rolled
* Ss = English 's'
* Śś = English 'sh' soft
* Tt = English 't'
* Uu = English 'oo'
* Ww = English 'v'
* Yy = English 'eh'
* Zz = English 'z'
* Źź = English 'zh' soft
* Żż = English 'zh' harder

==Consonant Sounds==

* l~ - same as w in woman
* Z~ - same as s in street
* ch - same as h in happy
* cz - same as ch in church
* dz - same as d followed by z
* dz~ - same as d followed by z~
* rz - same as s in treasure
* sz - same as sh in share

==Polish Diacritics==

How Polish diacritics (accented) letters are typically represented in type:

Use of the tilde " ~ " is the accepted practice for typing Polish diacritic letters when a suitable keyboard is not present.

Type | Accent | located | Pronounced "sound"
* A~ a~ | below | nasal,| pronounced "on" (or as "om" when following a B or P, Da~browski = Dombrowski)
* C~ c~ above| |pronounced roughly "ch"
* E~ e~ below| nasal,| generally pronounced "en" (or "em" when following a B or P, [De~bin~ski = Dembin~ski])
* L~ l~ angled | slash | pronounced much like English W
* N~ n~ above | |kind of like "ni" in "onion"
* O~ o~ above | |sounding much like "oo" in "book".
* S~ s~ above | |kind of like "sh" in "sheep"
* Z~ z~ above | |a soft, hissing "zh" sound
* Z* z* dot |above|a chunkier "zh" sound

==References==

{{reflist}}

[[Category: Poland]]
[[Category: Slavic languages]]
[[Category: Lithuania]]

Slavic languages

2013-02-25T16:58:39Z

Onestone:

'''Slavic languages''' are a group of [[languages]] spoken by Slavic [[people]]. They include [[Russian language|Russian]], [[Polish]], [[Czech]], [[Serbo-Croatian]], [[Ukrainian]] and similar languages. They are spoken in [[Slavs|Slavic]] countries in [[Eastern Europe]].

Some are written using the [[Latin alphabet]] used by [[English language|English]] and other Indo-European languages, but some use other alphabets such as the [[Cyrillic alphabet]].

They tend to have complex [[grammar]]s compared to the [[English language]], which is why usually five hundred hours of tuition are needed to master them.

== See Also ==
* Latin[[Alphabet]]:
** [[Czech Republic|Czech language]]
** [[Polish]]

* [[Cyrillic alphabet]]
** [[Russian language]]

[[Category:Slavic languages| ]]

Debate: Should we criminalize homosexuality?

2013-02-25T14:37:14Z

Onestone: /* No */

==conservapedia is ridiculous ==
I believe homosexuals are equals. I am a top contributor of conservapedia and condemn all of my views I am extremely sorry to those whom I have mislead

In order to save our economy, we must criminalize homosexuality. Punishing them by death is a bit too extreme, as we Americans need to show that we are more moral than those who punish homosexuality through death. Instead, I suggest we ''deport'' them any communist/socialist state (Cuba, Venezuela, China, and North Korea). These countries are definitely more tolerant towards their gay population since there is never any communist state that criminalizes homosexuality. Or maybe we should send the entire gay population in America to Japan. Since many anime portray homosexuals in a more positive light and Japan happens to be the gay friendliest country in the world, we deport homosexuals there instead.--[[User:JacobMS|JacobMS]] 23:42, 5 July 2011 (EDT)
:I am afraid to say that unfortunately JacobMS, you seem to not understand the difference between correlation and causation. --[[User:DamianJohn|DamianJohn]] 01:22, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
:: Homosexuality wasn't legalised until well into the 1970s in Britain, the empire was crumbling well before then [[User:TonyB|TonyB]] 21:48, 28 August 2011 (EDT)

Christianity clearly prohibits homosexuality, and since America is a CHRISTIAN country, we need to outlaw homosexuality to protect the country from sin. ---[[User:DennisRifkin|DennisR]] 07:32, 14 August 2011 (EDT)
::According to the Treaty of Tripoli of 1796, America is not a Christian nation. See: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html. And I quote: "Art. 11. The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;" From the founding fathers themselves, practically. John Adams was president at the time and proudly signed and announced it, and it, along with the rest of the treaty of course, was unanimously agreed upon by the senate. I needed to point that out. --[[NSmyth|NSmyth]] 19:28, 28 August, 2011 (EDT)

Yes. After Roe v. Wade, Lawrence v. Texas is the worst Supreme Court Decision in the history of the United States. It needs to be overturned and a federal anti-Homosexuality law passed. --[[User:OliviaB|OliviaB]] 17:02, 28 August 2011 (EDT)

Yes. Please see: [[Homosexuality and murders]], [[Homosexual Couples and Domestic Violence]] and [[Homosexuality and health]]. When one looks at the [[homosexuality and health]] article, it is really not that surprising that [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=undP3-0yEn8 Indian lady Christian dancers are far more graceful] than the [[Lesbianism and obesity|obesity infested lesbian population.]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH4ZTSUZQWM&list=PLFD5B143F743EB6B1] :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 17:18, 28 August 2011 (EDT)
:There's also [[Mental Health and Homosexuality]] and [[Gay Bowel Syndrome]] --[[User:OliviaB|OliviaB]] 17:28, 28 August 2011 (EDT)
:::OliviaB, you are being redundant. Is that not covered under [[Homosexuality and health]]? (you are probably not the first parodist guilty of being redundant) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 17:36, 28 August 2011 (EDT)
:I believe homosexuals are causing our economy to decline. Just look at India, a country that barely tolerates [[homosexuality]], and it's GDP is steadily increasing and becoming an economic. Many other countries like Portugal, Greece, Netherlands, Sweden, and Spain are suffering economically and they have either legalized same-sex marriage or have more liberal "gay rights." And many empires have collapsed due to the acceptance of homosexuality (Roman Empire, Mongol Empire, and the British Empire).
:I believe ''white people'' are causing our economy to decline. Just look at India, a country that ''doesn't have many white people'', and it's GDP is steadily increasing and becoming an economic. Many other countries like Portugal, Greece, Netherlands, Sweden, and Spain are suffering economically and they have either legalized ''being white'' or have more liberal "white folks." And many empires have collapsed due to the acceptance of ''white people'' (Every place colonized by Spain and England before 1900).
:I think you're onto something. [[User:SEdwin|SEdwin]] 01:55, 4 June 2012 (EDT)

==No==

The last thing we need in this country are more liberal, nanny state policies like this. The only thing criminalization of homosexuality would accomplish is more spending on law enforcement and increased governmental control of our lives. There would also be no way to enforce it, since making love in the street is already illegal, and homosexuals could just claim public displays of affection as political statements protected by the first amendment, which would clog our court systems even worse than they already are. There is no objective way to prove homosexuality outside the bedroom, so that throws a giant wrench into any possibility of enforcement.

Government control is a slippery slope. It starts with the criminalization of deviant sexual practices, and before you know it, the government is controlling who breeds with who and when. Homosexuality may be sinful and immoral, but it is the lesser of two evils. [[User:FCapra|FCapra]] 00:19, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Technically, Homosexuality is not in major violation of the majority of the country's morals, and so there's not reason to criminalize it. What happens in the bedrooms of a loving, consensual couple should not be of any concern to anyone else. [[User:Geosurgeon|Geosurgeon]] 16:19 PM August 28, 2011 (EDT)

No. Even if I did agree that homosexuality is wrong(which I don't), I don't think it could make it through the house or senate. Evidence from both sides is way too shaky, and the religious motive behind it would be dangerously close to being unconstitutional. It would also bring up many comparisons to Nazi Germany, where they criminalized homosexuality, by punishment of death, and while I'm fully aware that even if such legislation was to be written up, it wouldn't be nearly as terrible as Nazi Germany, the comparison would stick the moment it became public. Furthermore, the amount of money such legislation would cost(sinking money into already overzealous law enforcement, and the prison system for a completely ridiculous piece of legislation would be a terrible idea no matter how you look at it) in the end would be enormous and a terribly unnecessary and unaffordable burden on America and Americans in today's economic climate. [[NSmyth|NSmyth]] 19:37 28 August, 2011 (EDT)

No. We should prevent homosexual marriage, but while America was founded a Christian nation (see [http://creationwiki.org/William_Penn William Penn]), it was founded on the understanding that other views should be allowed to coexist. As Thomas Jefferson said in the [http://creationwiki.org/Virginia_statute_for_religious_freedom Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom],
{{cquote|"Whereas, Almighty God hath created the mind free;
That all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens, or by civil incapacitations tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and therefore are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being Lord, both of body and mind yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do, That the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavouring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time...
That to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy which at once destroys all religious liberty because he being of course judge of that tendency will make his opinions the rule of judgment and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own;"}}
Jefferson believed that while government should imitate the style of the Bible, God did not force others to believe through coercion, and neither should we. So long as their lifestyles don't affect the rights of others to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, they should be allowed to live as they please. Marriage should not be allowed because it affects the public sphere but what they do in the privacy of their own homes ought to be their business.

If you look at what the Bible says, it says we can't justly judge others according to the Mosaic Law because by it, we ourselves are guilty. Only God can judge by such a Law, because we ourselves are all guilty of death before God, and cannot expect God to forgive us if we can't forgive others. We cannot cast the first stone without being sinless ourselves.
{{cquote|Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.}}

Homosexuality is just one of a number of sexual sins that include divorce, adultery, and lusting after the wives of others in one's heart. All are guilty of death before God, and cannot cast the first stone if not sinless themselves. Those who judge others according to the Law will not be forgiven by God their own guilt; and all are guilty. --[[User:Jzy|Jzy]] 02:45, 4 June 2012 (EDT)

Although I do not approve of homosexuality, I believe criminalizing it won't work in practice. It will lead to unnecessary spending, and if the offenders are imprisoned they could still perform homosexual acts in prison. A better way to reduce the extent of homosexuality is by teaching its dangers to our children (See [[homosexuality and health]]), and show just how magnificent it is to be attracted to the opposite sex. That way the future generations will have little if any awareness of homosexuality. We can also act against the root causes of homosexuality (e.g. the liberal media, sex education) and without these homosexuality will become even rarer. [[C12Elliot]]

Absolutely not. It is a government intrusion into private life. The founders believed in personal freedom; our country was based on those freedoms. If it were to be criminalized, it would have to be a constitutional amendment, due to Lawrence vs. Texas.-Alpine

==No==
I think a top notch question that you all to ask yourselves is? '''If the bible teaches acceptance, then why do you all see gays as not even people?''' Please provide an actual answer to this question without trialing off onto something totally unrelated please.

I need to also say, like it or not that America isn't completely cristian, we aren't in the 19th century anymore, America is completely multicultural with many different races, religions and sexualities. I mean we have a black president now, get with the times. America is no longer a nation just for white Christian people that stick to the bible like super glue. I can't believe I read a suggestion to deport all homosexuals, if you wanted to deport all people that disagreed with your conservative views you wouldn't have a very big nation would you? Of course, when someone on conservapedia prevents an argument you can't rebut you just block them as a troll right? Well in this case that would only serve to prove my point, rather than see someone actually debate with me on this like a real man will you just leave the judgement up to your "god" to do? He made me [[Homosexual|this way]] if he hates it so much, why create gay people to begin with? --[[User:ZacB|ZacB]] 22:07, 23 February 2013 (EST)
::Wow, so many distortions in just two paragraphs. Nobody here hates gay people, it's just that we don't accept that kind of lifestyle. I find your insinuations that conservatives are racist somewhat bizarre, as it's always been the Democrats who were supportive of segregation.

::The diversity of "sexualities" is one of the major problems of the modern western world. Once homosexuality is fully legitimized than next we will say that incest is OK, followed by pedophilia, bestiality and whatever sexual acts man's perverted mind can think of. While none of us hate homosexuals, we realize that their behavior poses a threat both to their lives and to the lives of others. I've seen on your user page that you identify yourself as a homosexual. If you'll skim through this website you'll find out that this lifestyle can only leads to tears and misery. I hope you'll get help as soon possible, I'm really worried about your physical and mental health.

::Anyway, in regards to question of this debate, I think that homosexuality should be criminalized, but first time offenders should be able to get lenient sentences so long as they are willing to receive treatment. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 22:26, 23 February 2013 (EST)

:::"''Once homosexuality is fully legitimized than next we will say that incest is OK, followed by pedophilia, bestiality and whatever sexual acts man's perverted mind can think of''." That's an example of one of the oldest and stalest fallacies in the book (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html) and as such not helpful to the debate. (By the way, the fallacy is very easy to produce. Here's one of mine: "Once homosexuality is fully criminalized, then next we will say that atheism should be criminalized as well, and not going to church on Sunday, and masturbation and whatever acts conservatives abhor").

:::If some homosexuals do happen to lead an unhappy life, I think it's mostly because vocal parts of society don't accept them or even (like Markman) are eager to criminalize them. However, criminalizing homosexuality would constitute a government intrusion into the private life of its citizens, which runs counter to the very freedoms America was based on. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 08:37, 24 February 2013 (EST)

::::The fact that legitimization of homosexuality will eventually lead to the legitimization of incest is not a slippery slope fallacy but a simple use of logic. If we say that it's OK for two men to have sex each other so long as it's consensual, why not say that it's OK for a brother and a sister or mother and her son to have sex with each other so long as it's consensual?

::::And anyway the founding fathers never intended to have a right for sodomy. Thomas Jefferson [http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendVIIIs10.html advocated for castration as a punishment for sodomy], which just to clarify is not something I or anyone else on this website advocates (not even the parodist who started this debate).

::::Finally, homosexuals live a miserable life not due to oppression, but due to the fact that their behavior is immoral and unhealthy. There's ample of evidence on this website regarding that. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 09:01, 24 February 2013 (EST)

:::::It's still a slippery slope fallacy, Markman. If your example is inherently ''logical'', then the next statement is just as logical: "If we adopt the logic that it's OK for a man and a woman to have sex with each other so long as it's consensual, why not say that it's OK for a brother and a sister or mother and her son to have sex so long as it's consensual?" Or: "If we adopt the logic that is okay to criminalize homosexuality, why not say that it's okay to punish homosexual acts with the death penalty?" Using that kind of logic everything can be "proven".

:::::You are right that Jefferson's proposal was not exactly gay friendly, but it should be added that he intended to ''liberalize'' the sodomy laws in Virginia at that time, which prescribed death as the maximum penalty for the crime of sodomy.

:::::Finally, if homosexuals happen to lead a miserable life, it is mostly due to to the fact that they are oppressed and not accepted by people who think they have an immoral and unhealthy lifestyle. The information on this website doesn't really qualify as evidence. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 10:32, 24 February 2013 (EST)

::::::Look, homosexuality from the traditional notion of how sexual relations should be conducted - between a married man and woman for the purpose of procreation. If one deviation can be justified under the excuse of consent, than all deviations can be justified. You cannot be a conservative and condemn pornography, prostitution, premarital sex, but of all of a sudden make an exception for sodomy.

::::::I'm glad that you concede - although only implicitly, it would seem - that the founding fathers never thought that people had a right for sodomy. Anyway, in regards to the mental and physical health problems that accompany homosexuality, see: [[Homosexuality and murders]], [[Homosexual Couples and Domestic Violence]], [[Homosexuality and health]], [[Mental Health and Homosexuality]], [[Homosexuality and alcoholism]], [[Sexual abuse being a contributing factor for homosexuality]], [[Homosexuality and Illegal Drug Use]], [[Gay violence]], [[Lesbianism and obesity]]. All show that the source of homosexual misery is the lifestyle itself. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 00:21, 25 February 2013 (EST)

::::::::"If one deviation can be justified under the excuse of consent, [then] all deviations can be justified." You are still sliding away on the slippery slope, Markman. Anyway, in a truly free society an adult has the liberty to engage in any consensual activity with another adult as long as they don't harm anyone else. Societies where government prohibits gay or non-married couples from having sex are ipso facto not free, as they intrude on the lives of their citizens. Incidentally, if sexual relations should only be conducted between a married man and woman for the purpose of procreation, how about sterile married couples? Would their sexual activity also be a "deviation"?

::::::::The Conservapedia pages you put forward as an argument are anything but convincing. Take [[Homosexuality and alcoholism]]: the whole "argument" boils down to the uncorroborated claim that homosexuality and alcoholism are ''both'' addictions. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 09:37, 25 February 2013 (EST)

== No ==

No. Just help if they ask for it. Cases that are product of vice should be pointed. Education is important to prevent it in young people. Same sex marriage is wrong in my opinion. --[[User:JMR10|Joaquín Martínez]] 10:56, 24 February 2013 (EST)

[[Category:Debate]]
[[Category:Homosexuality]]

Nellie Gray

2013-02-24T22:30:44Z

Onestone: updating

'''Nellie Gray''' (June 24, 1924 – August 2012) was the founder of the National [[March for Life]]. In a rally before the 2008 March she fell and sustained injury to her [[head]], requiring multiple stitches.
{{DEFAULTSORT:Gray, Nellie}}
[[Category:Political Activists]]

March for Life

2013-02-24T22:27:20Z

Onestone: grammar

[[File:PhpFvUL9cPM.jpg|right|300px]]
The '''March for Life''' is the largest and longest annual gathering in the history of the [[United States]]. '''About 400,000 (and growing) gather annually in [[Washington, D.C.]] in support of life and against [[abortion]]'''.<ref name="March for Life">http://www.marchforlife.org/</ref> By comparison, the biggest sports events attract attendance of only 100,000-250,000, and the biggest cities can accommodate tourism of only about 200,000 at any particular time.

The March for Life began in 1974, on the first anniversary of ''[[Roe v. Wade]]'' (1973). In addition, over 100,000 gather around the nation in various cities, such as on the West Coast. '''''The most recent March for Life in D.C. was held on Friday, January 25, 2013 - near the 40th anniversary of [[Roe v. Wade]]'''''.<ref name="March for Life"/>

The March for Life was founded by the late Miss [[Nellie Gray]], who led it for nearly four decades. She also set up a non-profit organization by the same name which provides educational workshops typically the day before the [[March]]. Many organizations and groups from across the nation attend the March for Life. For example, [[Conservapedia]] has led large groups to the March for Life each year beginning in 2009.

The influence of the March for Life might be estimated to be approximately 25 times its attendance, as the average person who attends is bound to communicate his participation to 25 others (at a conservative estimate).<ref>Some, such as clergymen, obviously influence far more.</ref> '''''An attendance of 400,000 thereby influences perhaps 10 million persons annually, and during a period of a decade the cumulative overall influence reaches perhaps 50 million persons in a personal way'''''.

The March for Life has grown to participation by about 1 in every 400 Americans from East of the [[Mississippi River]].<ref>The population East of the Mississippi River is estimated to be about 178 million.</ref> Additional people from across the nation and out West also travel to attend the March for Life. In Canada, a March for Life is held on May 12th each year.

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
!Year
!Estimated Attendance
|-
|1974
|20,000<ref name="Estimates1">http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=31298</ref>
|-
|1975
|50,000<ref name="Estimates2">http://www.marchforlife.org/content/view/13/26/</ref>
|-
|1976
|65,000<ref name="Estimates2">http://www.marchforlife.org/content/view/13/26/</ref>
|-
|2000
|100,000<ref name="Estimates2"/>
|-
|2005
|200,000<ref name="Estimates2"/>
|-
|2008
|225,000<ref name="Estimates1"/>
|-
|2009
|300,000
|-
|2010
|400,000
|-
|2011
|400,000<ref>http://prolifeleague.com/articles/60-march-for-life-2011.html . The cold weather -- 10 degrees below normal in D.C. and even colder at many points of departure -- caused some to postpone their attendance until 2012.</ref>
|-
|2012
|400,000<ref>http://ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/US.php?id=4725 . Also, an onsite report by a bus driver to a ''Conservapedian'' said there were more buses in 2012 than in 2011, when the crowd was 400,000, despite the cold rain throughout the day.</ref>
|-
|2013
|500,000<ref>http://www.catholicvirginian.org/archive/2013/2013vol88iss7/pages/2013vol88iss7.html</ref>
|}
[[File:Marchforlife.jpg|center]]

== Photos from 2013 March for Life by ''Conservapedia'' ==

<gallery perrow="3">
File:March2013a.jpg
File:March2013c.jpg
File:March2013d.jpg
File:March2013f.jpg
File:March2013g.jpg
File:March2013h.jpg
File:March2013i.jpg
File:March2013j.jpg
File:March2013l.jpg
</gallery>

== Photos from 2012 March for Life by ''Conservapedia'' ==
<gallery perrow="3">
File:March for Life 2012_2.jpg
File:23jan2012MarchForLife.jpg
File:March for Life Mall 2012.jpg
</gallery>
 

== Photos from 2011 March for Life by ''Conservapedia'' ==
<gallery perrow="3">
File:PhpMGlmDfPM.jpg
File:PhpUImy4EPM.jpg
File:Php3sfokfPM.jpg
File:Php9T6BjXPM.jpg
File:PhpeokG1ZPM.jpg
File:PhpzD3YBWPM.jpg
File:PhpUrImgrPM.jpg
</gallery>

== Photos from 2010 March for Life by ''Conservapedia'' ==
<gallery perrow="3">
File:March for Life 2010 Along Route.JPG
File:March for Life 2010 Mall.jpg
File:March for Life 2010 Mall Capitol.jpg
</gallery>

== Photos from 2009 March for Life by ''Conservapedia'' ==
<gallery perrow="3">
File:March for Life 2009 Sup Ct.JPG|March for Life 2009 outside [[U.S. Supreme Court]]
File:March for Life 2009 Mall.JPG
</gallery>

==See Also==
*[[Thine Eyes]]

== References ==
<references />
[[category:United States Politics]]
[[category:abortion]]

Meghan McCain

2013-02-24T21:26:26Z

Onestone: few corrections

'''Meghan McCain''' (born October 23, 1984<ref>[http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/extras/2011/10/23/oct-23-national-mole-day-robert-bork-rejected-moscow-theater-siege/ Oct. 23], ABC News</ref>) is an American writer known primarily for being the daughter of U.S. Senator and former presidential candidate [[John McCain]]. Meghan identifies as a Republican, but this is [[Republican in name only|in name only]] as the majority of her views are liberal.

== Political views ==
When she reached the age of 18, McCain registered as independent and continued to be listed as such until 12 June 2008, when she changed her party registration to Republican shortly after her father became the Republican Party’s presidential nominee.<ref>[http://web.archive.org/web/20080822074109/http://mccainblogette.com/archive/june_9_12.shtml An archived post from Meghan McCain's blog]</ref> In the 2004 presidential elections she voted for the Democratic Party’s nominee, [[John Kerry]].<ref>[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D00EEDF103EF935A25753C1A96E9C8B63&ref=meghanmccain POLITICS AND CHILDREN; She Is So Not Over It], New York Times, October 16, 2008</ref>

McCain is fully supportive of the [[homosexual agenda]] and endorses all of its goals including [[same-sex "marriage"]]<ref>[http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-6121366-503544.html Cindy McCain Joins Campaign in Favor of Gay Marriage], CBS, January 20, 2010</ref> and the repeal of [[DADT]].<ref>[http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2010/1112/Cindy-McCain-splits-with-John-on-don-t-ask-don-t-tell.-Meghan-s-with-mom Cindy McCain splits with John on 'don't ask, don't tell.' Meghan's with mom], Christian Science Monitor, November 12, 2010</ref> She also supports teaching high school students about contraceptives rather than having abstinence education<ref>[http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2009/05/07/the-gop-is-clueless-about-sex.html The GOP Doesn’t Understand Sex], The Daily Beast, May 7, 2009</ref>, and believes in man-made global warming<ref>[http://www.newsmax.com/brennan/mccain-global-warming/2008/05/13/id/323663 McCain Embraces Global Warming], Newsmax, May 13, 2008</ref>.
Not much is known about her views regarding fiscal issues, but her support for [[Occupy Wall Street]]<ref>[http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/10/24/meghan-mccain-s-day-at-occupy-wall-street.html My Day at Occupy Wall Street], The Daily Beast, October 24, 2011</ref> suggests that on those matters she tilts to the left as well.

McCain, like many other RINOs, chose to distance herself from the principled statements made by pro-life leader [[Todd Akin]], stating that in her opinion he is "an embarrassment to the party"<ref>http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/20/meghan_mccain_todd_akin_is_an_embarrassment_to_the_party.html</ref> and that Akin's comments were "delusional"<ref>http://ktar.com/95/1569801/Meghan-McCain-I-cant-shut-off-my-ovaries</ref>.

== Writing career ==
In addition to her tweeter account and column at the liberal newspaper The Daily Beast, Meghan has also written two books, the children book ''My Dad, John McCain''<ref>[http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26608263/ns/today-books/t/childrens-book-excerpt-my-dad-john-mccain/#.TsUpDFb4JJE Children’s book excerpt: ‘My Dad, John McCain’], MSNBC, September 9, 2008</ref> and ''Dirty Sexy Politics''.<ref>[http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/dirty-sexy-politics-meghan-mccain/story?id=11515461 EXCERPT: Meghan McCain's 'Dirty Sexy Politics'], ABC News, August 31, 2010</ref>

== References ==
{{reflist}}

== External links ==
* [http://www.mccainblogette.com/ McCain Blogette]
*[http://www.thedailybeast.com/contributors/meghan-mccain.html Meghan’s columns at The Daily Beast]

{{DEFAULTSORT:McCain, Meghan}}
[[Category:Liberals]]
[[Category:Homosexual Agenda]]
[[Category:Rino backers]]

Second Epistle to the Thessalonians (Translated)

2013-02-24T21:11:18Z

Onestone:

{{ConservativeBible}}
__TOC__

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
|From Paul, Silvanus, and Timotheus, to the church of the Thessalonians, united in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
|
|-
|2
|Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|Grace and peace of mind to you, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|
|-
|3
|We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
|It is well for us to thank God for you, always, our brothers, for your faith grows quickly, and the charity that each of you show to each other is great.
|
|-
|4
|So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
|That's why we exalt you in the churches of God: for your patience and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring.
|
|-
|5
|[Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
|A tangible token of the righteous judgement of God, so that you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, which you suffer for as we do
|
|-
|6
|Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
|God is just, and will bring trouble on those who trouble you,
|
|-
|7
|And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
|and to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus will come again from heaven, with his mighty angels,
|
|-
|8
|In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
|Will take vengeance with flaming fire upon those in denial of God, and who ignore the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ
|The 'vengeance with flaming fire' is in the original Greek text, and should be translated.
|-
|9
|Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
|Whose punishment shall be an everlasting and destructive separation from the Lord and from His glorious power;
|
|-
|10
|When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
|when Jesus comes again to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired among all who believe (because you believed our testimony)
|Difficult phrase. not entirely sure if "saints" is appropriate here. Perhaps "faithful" is what was intended. "Admired" is no longer expressive of the devotion we have for Christ - love is more appropriate.
Indeed a difficult phrase, but I do think 'admired' is better than 'loved'
|-
|11
|Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:
|We will always pray for you, that God considers you among the blessed and that you will know His goodness, power and salvation
|Remember that this is a letter from Paul to distinct people. An effort should be made to preserve the context of the chapters.
|-
|12
|That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, praise be to him, and the Holy Father. May you be blessed always.
|
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
|We ask you, friends, in regards to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being with Him
|
|-
|2
|That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
|Do not be startled or troubled by either a spirit, a comment, or by a letter purportedly written by us, that says Christ has already returned
|
|-
|3
|Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
|Don't let any man deceive you. That day won't come until there is a rebellion and the sinful man is shown for who he is, the son of destruction,
|
|-
|4
|Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
|who opposes and praises himself above everything worshiped or called God. He will even sit in the temple of God, calling himself God.
|
|-
|5
|Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
|Don't you recall that I told you this when I was with you?
|
|-
|6
|And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
|You know what restrains him so he will only be revealed when the time comes.
|
|-
|7
|For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
|His covert lawlessness is already at work, but only while it is held back. Once He who holds it back is taken away,
|
|-
|8
|And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
|then the Evil will be revealed, who the Lord will destroy with his breath. He will smite his shining appearance,
|
|-
|9
|[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
|the man who comes to do Satan's work with great power and deceitful shows and miracles.
|
|-
|10
|And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
|The unrighteous will perish because of their self-deception, because they never received God's true love, which was to save them.
|
|-
|11
|And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
|It is for this reason that God will let them deceive themselves into believing a lie,
|
|-
|12
|That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
|that they will be condemned for not believing the truth, but reveled in unrighteousness.
|
|-
|13
|But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
|We must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the start to be saved through the purifying of the Spirit and believing the truth.
|Difficult but important translation. Improvements?
|-
|14
|Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
|He call you to him by our gospel so you could receive Lord Jesus Christ's glory.
|
|-
|15
|Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
|So brothers, stand firm and stick with the behavior our words and letters have taught you.
|
|-
|16
|Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
|We pray Lord Jesus Christ and God our loving father, who always comforts and gives us hope of salvation,
|
|-
|17
|Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
|comforts your hearts and strengthen you in your good words and work.
|
|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you:
|Finally, pray for us, Brothers, that the Lord's word will direct us and be glorified in us as it is in you.
|
|-
|2
|And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all [men] have not faith.
|That we will be protected from illogical and evil men, since not all men have faith.
|"unreasonable" has lost its distinct meaning.
|-
|3
|But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep [you] from evil.
|The Lord is faithful and will strengthen you and shield you from evil.
|
|-
|4
|And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
|We have confidence the Lord will touch your minds, that you are doing those things which we tell you.
|
|-
|5
|And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
|That the Lord steer your hearts to know the love of God and wait patiently for Christ's return.
|
|-
|6
|Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
|So we charge you, brothers, in the name of Lord Jesus Christ, to leave every brother who lives immorally and against the way He gave to us.
|"Command" seems a bit odd for the relationship between disciples, but does reflect God's commands. "Charge" seems to get the urgency across. Ideas?
|-
|7
|For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
|You know what your behavior should be, since we were not immoral among you.
|
|-
|8
|Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
|We didn't eat anyone's food for nothing but paid through our hard work, night and day, so we weren't any in your debt.
|
|-
|9
|Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
|Not because we didn't have the right, but to make an example of ourselves that you can follow.
|
|-
|10
|For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
|For we charged you when we were with you, "if any man won't work, he won't eat."
|Capitalism in a nutshell.
|-
|11
|For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
|We've heard there are those about you who live immorally, never working, but always interfering.
|
|-
|12
|Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
|We command those men in the name of Lord Jesus Christ to work diligently and earn their own keep.
|"Command" works better here, where it is no recommendation, but a correction.
|-
|13
|But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
|Brothers, do not grow tired of living well.
|
|-
|14
|And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
|If any man won't obey this letter, mark that man and do not mix with him, so he will see his errors.
|
|-
|15
|Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother.
|But do not cast him as an enemy, but correct him as your brother.
|
|-
|16
|Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord [be] with you all.
|The Lord of Peace always give you peace of mind. The Lord be with all of you.
|
|-
|17
|The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
|I add Paul's greeting, which is the sign of every letter, in my own writing:
|
|-
|18
|The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.
|"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you. Amen."
|
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Debate: Should we criminalize homosexuality?

2013-02-24T19:53:01Z

Onestone: /* No */

==conservapedia is ridiculous ==
I believe homosexuals are equals. I am a top contributor of conservapedia and condemn all of my views I am extremely sorry to those whom I have mislead

In order to save our economy, we must criminalize homosexuality. Punishing them by death is a bit too extreme, as we Americans need to show that we are more moral than those who punish homosexuality through death. Instead, I suggest we ''deport'' them any communist/socialist state (Cuba, Venezuela, China, and North Korea). These countries are definitely more tolerant towards their gay population since there is never any communist state that criminalizes homosexuality. Or maybe we should send the entire gay population in America to Japan. Since many anime portray homosexuals in a more positive light and Japan happens to be the gay friendliest country in the world, we deport homosexuals there instead.--[[User:JacobMS|JacobMS]] 23:42, 5 July 2011 (EDT)
:I am afraid to say that unfortunately JacobMS, you seem to not understand the difference between correlation and causation. --[[User:DamianJohn|DamianJohn]] 01:22, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
:: Homosexuality wasn't legalised until well into the 1970s in Britain, the empire was crumbling well before then [[User:TonyB|TonyB]] 21:48, 28 August 2011 (EDT)

Christianity clearly prohibits homosexuality, and since America is a CHRISTIAN country, we need to outlaw homosexuality to protect the country from sin. ---[[User:DennisRifkin|DennisR]] 07:32, 14 August 2011 (EDT)
::According to the Treaty of Tripoli of 1796, America is not a Christian nation. See: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html. And I quote: "Art. 11. The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;" From the founding fathers themselves, practically. John Adams was president at the time and proudly signed and announced it, and it, along with the rest of the treaty of course, was unanimously agreed upon by the senate. I needed to point that out. --[[NSmyth|NSmyth]] 19:28, 28 August, 2011 (EDT)

Yes. After Roe v. Wade, Lawrence v. Texas is the worst Supreme Court Decision in the history of the United States. It needs to be overturned and a federal anti-Homosexuality law passed. --[[User:OliviaB|OliviaB]] 17:02, 28 August 2011 (EDT)

Yes. Please see: [[Homosexuality and murders]], [[Homosexual Couples and Domestic Violence]] and [[Homosexuality and health]]. When one looks at the [[homosexuality and health]] article, it is really not that surprising that [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=undP3-0yEn8 Indian lady Christian dancers are far more graceful] than the [[Lesbianism and obesity|obesity infested lesbian population.]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH4ZTSUZQWM&list=PLFD5B143F743EB6B1] :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 17:18, 28 August 2011 (EDT)
:There's also [[Mental Health and Homosexuality]] and [[Gay Bowel Syndrome]] --[[User:OliviaB|OliviaB]] 17:28, 28 August 2011 (EDT)
:::OliviaB, you are being redundant. Is that not covered under [[Homosexuality and health]]? (you are probably not the first parodist guilty of being redundant) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 17:36, 28 August 2011 (EDT)
:I believe homosexuals are causing our economy to decline. Just look at India, a country that barely tolerates [[homosexuality]], and it's GDP is steadily increasing and becoming an economic. Many other countries like Portugal, Greece, Netherlands, Sweden, and Spain are suffering economically and they have either legalized same-sex marriage or have more liberal "gay rights." And many empires have collapsed due to the acceptance of homosexuality (Roman Empire, Mongol Empire, and the British Empire).
:I believe ''white people'' are causing our economy to decline. Just look at India, a country that ''doesn't have many white people'', and it's GDP is steadily increasing and becoming an economic. Many other countries like Portugal, Greece, Netherlands, Sweden, and Spain are suffering economically and they have either legalized ''being white'' or have more liberal "white folks." And many empires have collapsed due to the acceptance of ''white people'' (Every place colonized by Spain and England before 1900).
:I think you're onto something. [[User:SEdwin|SEdwin]] 01:55, 4 June 2012 (EDT)

==No==

The last thing we need in this country are more liberal, nanny state policies like this. The only thing criminalization of homosexuality would accomplish is more spending on law enforcement and increased governmental control of our lives. There would also be no way to enforce it, since making love in the street is already illegal, and homosexuals could just claim public displays of affection as political statements protected by the first amendment, which would clog our court systems even worse than they already are. There is no objective way to prove homosexuality outside the bedroom, so that throws a giant wrench into any possibility of enforcement.

Government control is a slippery slope. It starts with the criminalization of deviant sexual practices, and before you know it, the government is controlling who breeds with who and when. Homosexuality may be sinful and immoral, but it is the lesser of two evils. [[User:FCapra|FCapra]] 00:19, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Technically, Homosexuality is not in major violation of the majority of the country's morals, and so there's not reason to criminalize it. What happens in the bedrooms of a loving, consensual couple should not be of any concern to anyone else. [[User:Geosurgeon|Geosurgeon]] 16:19 PM August 28, 2011 (EDT)

No. Even if I did agree that homosexuality is wrong(which I don't), I don't think it could make it through the house or senate. Evidence from both sides is way too shaky, and the religious motive behind it would be dangerously close to being unconstitutional. It would also bring up many comparisons to Nazi Germany, where they criminalized homosexuality, by punishment of death, and while I'm fully aware that even if such legislation was to be written up, it wouldn't be nearly as terrible as Nazi Germany, the comparison would stick the moment it became public. Furthermore, the amount of money such legislation would cost(sinking money into already overzealous law enforcement, and the prison system for a completely ridiculous piece of legislation would be a terrible idea no matter how you look at it) in the end would be enormous and a terribly unnecessary and unaffordable burden on America and Americans in today's economic climate. [[NSmyth|NSmyth]] 19:37 28 August, 2011 (EDT)

No. We should prevent homosexual marriage, but while America was founded a Christian nation (see [http://creationwiki.org/William_Penn William Penn]), it was founded on the understanding that other views should be allowed to coexist. As Thomas Jefferson said in the [http://creationwiki.org/Virginia_statute_for_religious_freedom Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom],
{{cquote|"Whereas, Almighty God hath created the mind free;
That all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens, or by civil incapacitations tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and therefore are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being Lord, both of body and mind yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do, That the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavouring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time...
That to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy which at once destroys all religious liberty because he being of course judge of that tendency will make his opinions the rule of judgment and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own;"}}
Jefferson believed that while government should imitate the style of the Bible, God did not force others to believe through coercion, and neither should we. So long as their lifestyles don't affect the rights of others to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, they should be allowed to live as they please. Marriage should not be allowed because it affects the public sphere but what they do in the privacy of their own homes ought to be their business.

If you look at what the Bible says, it says we can't justly judge others according to the Mosaic Law because by it, we ourselves are guilty. Only God can judge by such a Law, because we ourselves are all guilty of death before God, and cannot expect God to forgive us if we can't forgive others. We cannot cast the first stone without being sinless ourselves.
{{cquote|Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.}}

Homosexuality is just one of a number of sexual sins that include divorce, adultery, and lusting after the wives of others in one's heart. All are guilty of death before God, and cannot cast the first stone if not sinless themselves. Those who judge others according to the Law will not be forgiven by God their own guilt; and all are guilty. --[[User:Jzy|Jzy]] 02:45, 4 June 2012 (EDT)

Although I do not approve of homosexuality, I believe criminalizing it won't work in practice. It will lead to unnecessary spending, and if the offenders are imprisoned they could still perform homosexual acts in prison. A better way to reduce the extent of homosexuality is by teaching its dangers to our children (See [[homosexuality and health]]), and show just how magnificent it is to be attracted to the opposite sex. That way the future generations will have little if any awareness of homosexuality. We can also act against the root causes of homosexuality (e.g. the liberal media, sex education) and without these homosexuality will become even rarer. [[C12Elliot]]

Absolutely not. It is a government intrusion into private life. The founders believed in personal freedom; our country was based on those freedoms. If it were to be criminalized, it would have to be a constitutional amendment, due to Lawrence vs. Texas.-Alpine

==No==
I think a top notch question that you all to ask yourselves is? '''If the bible teaches acceptance, then why do you all see gays as not even people?''' Please provide an actual answer to this question without trialing off onto something totally unrelated please.

I need to also say, like it or not that America isn't completely cristian, we aren't in the 19th century anymore, America is completely multicultural with many different races, religions and sexualities. I mean we have a black president now, get with the times. America is no longer a nation just for white Christian people that stick to the bible like super glue. I can't believe I read a suggestion to deport all homosexuals, if you wanted to deport all people that disagreed with your conservative views you wouldn't have a very big nation would you? Of course, when someone on conservapedia prevents an argument you can't rebut you just block them as a troll right? Well in this case that would only serve to prove my point, rather than see someone actually debate with me on this like a real man will you just leave the judgement up to your "god" to do? He made me [[Homosexual|this way]] if he hates it so much, why create gay people to begin with? --[[User:ZacB|ZacB]] 22:07, 23 February 2013 (EST)
::Wow, so many distortions in just two paragraphs. Nobody here hates gay people, it's just that we don't accept that kind of lifestyle. I find your insinuations that conservatives are racist somewhat bizarre, as it's always been the Democrats who were supportive of segregation.

::The diversity of "sexualities" is one of the major problems of the modern western world. Once homosexuality is fully legitimized than next we will say that incest is OK, followed by pedophilia, bestiality and whatever sexual acts man's perverted mind can think of. While none of us hate homosexuals, we realize that their behavior poses a threat both to their lives and to the lives of others. I've seen on your user page that you identify yourself as a homosexual. If you'll skim through this website you'll find out that this lifestyle can only leads to tears and misery. I hope you'll get help as soon possible, I'm really worried about your physical and mental health.

::Anyway, in regards to question of this debate, I think that homosexuality should be criminalized, but first time offenders should be able to get lenient sentences so long as they are willing to receive treatment. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 22:26, 23 February 2013 (EST)

:::"''Once homosexuality is fully legitimized than next we will say that incest is OK, followed by pedophilia, bestiality and whatever sexual acts man's perverted mind can think of''." That's an example of one of the oldest and stalest fallacies in the book (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html) and as such not helpful to the debate. (By the way, the fallacy is very easy to produce. Here's one of mine: "Once homosexuality is fully criminalized, then next we will say that atheism should be criminalized as well, and not going to church on Sunday, and masturbation and whatever acts conservatives abhor").

:::If some homosexuals do happen to lead an unhappy life, I think it's mostly because vocal parts of society don't accept them or even (like Markman) are eager to criminalize them. However, criminalizing homosexuality would constitute a government intrusion into the private life of its citizens, which runs counter to the very freedoms America was based on. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 08:37, 24 February 2013 (EST)

::::The fact that legitimization of homosexuality will eventually lead to the legitimization of incest is not a slippery slope fallacy but a simple use of logic. If we say that it's OK for two men to have sex each other so long as it's consensual, why not say that it's OK for a brother and a sister or mother and her son to have sex with each other so long as it's consensual?

::::And anyway the founding fathers never intended to have a right for sodomy. Thomas Jefferson [http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendVIIIs10.html advocated for castration as a punishment for sodomy], which just to clarify is not something I or anyone else on this website advocates (not even the parodist who started this debate).

::::Finally, homosexuals live a miserable life not due to oppression, but due to the fact that their behavior is immoral and unhealthy. There's ample of evidence on this website regarding that. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 09:01, 24 February 2013 (EST)

:::::It's still a slippery slope fallacy, Markman. If your example is inherently ''logical'', then the next statement is just as logical: "If we adopt the logic that it's OK for a man and a woman to have sex with each other so long as it's consensual, why not say that it's OK for a brother and a sister or mother and her son to have sex so long as it's consensual?" Or: "If we adopt the logic that is okay to criminalize homosexuality, why not say that it's okay to punish homosexual acts with the death penalty?" Using that kind of logic everything can be "proven".

:::::You are right that Jefferson's proposal was not exactly gay friendly, but it should be added that he intended to ''liberalize'' the sodomy laws in Virginia at that time, which prescribed death as the maximum penalty for the crime of sodomy.

:::::Finally, if homosexuals happen to lead a miserable life, it is mostly due to to the fact that they are oppressed and not accepted by people who think they have an immoral and unhealthy lifestyle. The information on this website doesn't really qualify as evidence. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 10:32, 24 February 2013 (EST)

== No ==

No. Just help if they ask for it. Cases that are product of vice should be pointed. Education is important to prevent it in young people. Same sex marriage is wrong in my opinion. --[[User:JMR10|Joaquín Martínez]] 10:56, 24 February 2013 (EST)

[[Category:Debate]]
[[Category:Homosexuality]]

Esther (Translated)

2013-02-24T17:16:43Z

Onestone: /* Chapter 1 */

{{ConservativeBible}}

<--- keep translation where it is or lower --->

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now it came to pass in the days of Ahasuerus, (this is Ahasuerus which reigned, from India even unto Ethiopia, over an hundred and seven and twenty provinces:)
|This happened in the days of Xerxes (this being the Xerxes who ruled, all the way from India to Kush, over a hundred and twenty-seven states):
|
|-
|2
|That in those days, when the king Ahasuerus sat on the throne of his kingdom, which was in Shushan the palace,
|in those days, when the king Xerxes sat on his throne, in the capital Shushan,
|
|-
|3
|In the third year of his reign, he made a feast unto all his princes and his servants; the power of Persia and Media, the nobles and princes of the provinces, being before him:
|in the third year of his reign, he made a drinking-party for all his ministers and his slaves. The warriors of Persia and Media, the aristocrats, and the ministers of the states were in his presence,
|''Media'' here refers to the region of that name, not to the plural form of ''medium''.
|-
|4
|When he shewed the riches of his glorious kingdom and the honour of his excellent majesty many days, even an hundred and fourscore days.
|when he showed the wealth of the glory of his kingdom and his glorious splendor and magnificence for many days, 180 days.
|
|-
|5
|And when these days were expired, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both unto great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace;
|At the end of those days the king gave to all the people that were found in Shushan, from the greatest to the least, a drinking party of seven days in the yard of the garden of the king's palace.
|
|-
|6
|Where were white, green, and blue, hangings, fastened with cords of fine linen and purple to silver rings and pillars of marble: the beds were of gold and silver, upon a pavement of red, and blue, and white, and black, marble.
|There were white and violet linens held by purple linen ropes on silver rings and marble columns; couches of gold and silver on a flagstone pavement of (red stone), marble, (mother-of-pearl or a stone like pearl), and precious (black) stones.
|
|-
|7
|And they gave them drink in vessels of gold, (the vessels being diverse one from another,) and royal wine in abundance, according to the state of the king.
|
|
|-
|8
|And the drinking was according to the law; none did compel: for so the king had appointed to all the officers of his house, that they should do according to every man's pleasure.
|
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|-
|9
|Also Vashti the queen made a feast for the women in the royal house which belonged to king Ahasuerus.
|
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|-
|10
|On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,
|
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|-
|11
|To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to shew the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.
|
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|-
|12
|But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.
|
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|-
|13
|Then the king said to the wise men, which knew the times, (for so was the king's manner toward all that knew law and judgment:
|
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|-
|14
|And the next unto him was Carshena, Shethar, Admatha, Tarshish, Meres, Marsena, and Memucan, the seven princes of Persia and Media, which saw the king's face, and which sat the first in the kingdom;)
|
|
|-
|15
|What shall we do unto the queen Vashti according to law, because she hath not performed the commandment of the king Ahasuerus by the chamberlains?
|
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|-
|16
|And Memucan answered before the king and the princes, Vashti the queen hath not done wrong to the king only, but also to all the princes, and to all the people that are in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus.
|
|
|-
|17
|For this deed of the queen shall come abroad unto all women, so that they shall despise their husbands in their eyes, when it shall be reported, The king Ahasuerus commanded Vashti the queen to be brought in before him, but she came not.
|
|
|-
|18
|Likewise shall the ladies of Persia and Media say this day unto all the king's princes, which have heard of the deed of the queen. Thus shall there arise too much contempt and wrath.
|
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|-
|19
|If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment from him, and let it be written among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, that it be not altered, That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.
|
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|-
|20
|And when the king's decree which he shall make shall be published throughout all his empire, (for it is great,) all the wives shall give to their husbands honour, both to great and small.
|
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|-
|21
|And the saying pleased the king and the princes; and the king did according to the word of Memucan:
|
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|-
|22
|For he sent letters into all the king's provinces, into every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language, that every man should bear rule in his own house, and that it should be published according to the language of every people.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|After these things, when the wrath of king Ahasuerus was appeased, he remembered Vashti, and what she had done, and what was decreed against her.
|
|
|-
|2
|Then said the king's servants that ministered unto him, Let there be fair young virgins sought for the king:
|
|
|-
|3
|And let the king appoint officers in all the provinces of his kingdom, that they may gather together all the fair young virgins unto Shushan the palace, to the house of the women unto the custody of Hege the king's chamberlain, keeper of the women; and let their things for purification be given them:
|
|
|-
|4
|And let the maiden which pleaseth the king be queen instead of Vashti. And the thing pleased the king; and he did so.
|
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|-
|5
|Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite;
|
|
|-
|6
|Who had been carried away from Jerusalem with the captivity which had been carried away with Jeconiah king of Judah, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he brought up Hadassah, that is, Esther, his uncle's daughter: for she had neither father nor mother, and the maid was fair and beautiful; whom Mordecai, when her father and mother were dead, took for his own daughter.
|
|
|-
|8
|So it came to pass, when the king's commandment and his decree was heard, and when many maidens were gathered together unto Shushan the palace, to the custody of Hegai, that Esther was brought also unto the king's house, to the custody of Hegai, keeper of the women.
|
|
|-
|9
|And the maiden pleased him, and she obtained kindness of him; and he speedily gave her her things for purification, with such things as belonged to her, and seven maidens, which were meet to be given her, out of the king's house: and he preferred her and her maids unto the best place of the house of the women.
|
|
|-
|10
|Esther had not shewed her people nor her kindred: for Mordecai had charged her that she should not shew it.
|
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|-
|11
|And Mordecai walked every day before the court of the women's house, to know how Esther did, and what should become of her.
|
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|-
|12
|Now when every maid's turn was come to go in to king Ahasuerus, after that she had been twelve months, according to the manner of the women, (for so were the days of their purifications accomplished, to wit, six months with oil of myrrh, and six months with sweet odours, and with other things for the purifying of the women;)
|
|
|-
|13
|Then thus came every maiden unto the king; whatsoever she desired was given her to go with her out of the house of the women unto the king's house.
|
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|-
|14
|In the evening she went, and on the morrow she returned into the second house of the women, to the custody of Shaashgaz, the king's chamberlain, which kept the concubines: she came in unto the king no more, except the king delighted in her, and that she were called by name.
|
|
|-
|15
|Now when the turn of Esther, the daughter of Abihail the uncle of Mordecai, who had taken her for his daughter, was come to go in unto the king, she required nothing but what Hegai the king's chamberlain, the keeper of the women, appointed. And Esther obtained favour in the sight of all them that looked upon her.
|
|
|-
|16
|So Esther was taken unto king Ahasuerus into his house royal in the tenth month, which is the month Tebeth, in the seventh year of his reign.
|
|
|-
|17
|And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; so that he set the royal crown upon her head, and made her queen instead of Vashti.
|
|
|-
|18
|Then the king made a great feast unto all his princes and his servants, even Esther's feast; and he made a release to the provinces, and gave gifts, according to the state of the king.
|
|
|-
|19
|And when the virgins were gathered together the second time, then Mordecai sat in the king's gate.
|
|
|-
|20
|Esther had not yet shewed her kindred nor her people; as Mordecai had charged her: for Esther did the commandment of Mordecai, like as when she was brought up with him.
|
|
|-
|21
|In those days, while Mordecai sat in the king's gate, two of the king's chamberlains, Bigthan and Teresh, of those which kept the door, were wroth, and sought to lay hand on the king Ahasuerus.
|
|
|-
|22
|And the thing was known to Mordecai, who told it unto Esther the queen; and Esther certified the king thereof in Mordecai's name.
|
|
|-
|23
|And when inquisition was made of the matter, it was found out; therefore they were both hanged on a tree: and it was written in the book of the chronicles before the king.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|After these things did king Ahasuerus promote Haman the son of Hammedatha the Agagite, and advanced him, and set his seat above all the princes that were with him.
|
|
|-
|2
|And all the king's servants, that were in the king's gate, bowed, and reverenced Haman: for the king had so commanded concerning him. But Mordecai bowed not, nor did him reverence.
|
|
|-
|3
|Then the king's servants, which were in the king's gate, said unto Mordecai, Why transgressest thou the king's commandment?
|
|
|-
|4
|Now it came to pass, when they spake daily unto him, and he hearkened not unto them, that they told Haman, to see whether Mordecai's matters would stand: for he had told them that he was a Jew.
|
|
|-
|5
|And when Haman saw that Mordecai bowed not, nor did him reverence, then was Haman full of wrath.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he thought scorn to lay hands on Mordecai alone; for they had shewed him the people of Mordecai: wherefore Haman sought to destroy all the Jews that were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus, even the people of Mordecai.
|
|
|-
|7
|In the first month, that is, the month Nisan, in the twelfth year of king Ahasuerus, they cast Pur, that is, the lot, before Haman from day to day, and from month to month, to the twelfth month, that is, the month Adar.
|
|
|-
|8
|And Haman said unto king Ahasuerus, There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the people in all the provinces of thy kingdom; and their laws are diverse from all people; neither keep they the king's laws: therefore it is not for the king's profit to suffer them.
|
|
|-
|9
|If it please the king, let it be written that they may be destroyed: and I will pay ten thousand talents of silver to the hands of those that have the charge of the business, to bring it into the king's treasuries.
|
|
|-
|10
|And the king took his ring from his hand, and gave it unto Haman the son of Hammedatha the Agagite, the Jews' enemy.
|
|
|-
|11
|And the king said unto Haman, The silver is given to thee, the people also, to do with them as it seemeth good to thee.
|
|
|-
|12
|Then were the king's scribes called on the thirteenth day of the first month, and there was written according to all that Haman had commanded unto the king's lieutenants, and to the governors that were over every province, and to the rulers of every people of every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language; in the name of king Ahasuerus was it written, and sealed with the king's ring.
|
|
|-
|13
|And the letters were sent by posts into all the king's provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to cause to perish, all Jews, both young and old, little children and women, in one day, even upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar, and to take the spoil of them for a prey.
|
|
|-
|14
|The copy of the writing for a commandment to be given in every province was published unto all people, that they should be ready against that day.
|
|
|-
|15
|The posts went out, being hastened by the king's commandment, and the decree was given in Shushan the palace. And the king and Haman sat down to drink; but the city Shushan was perplexed.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 4==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|When Mordecai perceived all that was done, Mordecai rent his clothes, and put on sackcloth with ashes, and went out into the midst of the city, and cried with a loud and a bitter cry;
|
|
|-
|2
|And came even before the king's gate: for none might enter into the king's gate clothed with sackcloth.
|
|
|-
|3
|And in every province, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, there was great mourning among the Jews, and fasting, and weeping, and wailing; and many lay in sackcloth and ashes.
|
|
|-
|4
|So Esther's maids and her chamberlains came and told it her. Then was the queen exceedingly grieved; and she sent raiment to clothe Mordecai, and to take away his sackcloth from him: but he received it not.
|
|
|-
|5
|Then called Esther for Hatach, one of the king's chamberlains, whom he had appointed to attend upon her, and gave him a commandment to Mordecai, to know what it was, and why it was.
|
|
|-
|6
|So Hatach went forth to Mordecai unto the street of the city, which was before the king's gate.
|
|
|-
|7
|And Mordecai told him of all that had happened unto him, and of the sum of the money that Haman had promised to pay to the king's treasuries for the Jews, to destroy them.
|
|
|-
|8
|Also he gave him the copy of the writing of the decree that was given at Shushan to destroy them, to shew it unto Esther, and to declare it unto her, and to charge her that she should go in unto the king, to make supplication unto him, and to make request before him for her people.
|
|
|-
|9
|And Hatach came and told Esther the words of Mordecai.
|
|
|-
|10
|Again Esther spake unto Hatach, and gave him commandment unto Mordecai;
|
|
|-
|11
|All the king's servants, and the people of the king's provinces, do know, that whosoever, whether man or woman, shall come unto the king into the inner court, who is not called, there is one law of his to put him to death, except such to whom the king shall hold out the golden sceptre, that he may live: but I have not been called to come in unto the king these thirty days.
|
|
|-
|12
|And they told to Mordecai Esther's words.
|
|
|-
|13
|Then Mordecai commanded to answer Esther, Think not with thyself that thou shalt escape in the king's house, more than all the Jews.
|
|
|-
|14
|For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?
|
|
|-
|15
|Then Esther bade them return Mordecai this answer,
|
|
|-
|16
|Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.
|
|
|-
|17
|So Mordecai went his way, and did according to all that Esther had commanded him.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 5==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now it came to pass on the third day, that Esther put on her royal apparel, and stood in the inner court of the king's house, over against the king's house: and the king sat upon his royal throne in the royal house, over against the gate of the house.
|
|
|-
|2
|And it was so, when the king saw Esther the queen standing in the court, that she obtained favour in his sight: and the king held out to Esther the golden sceptre that was in his hand. So Esther drew near, and touched the top of the sceptre.
|
|
|-
|3
|Then said the king unto her, What wilt thou, queen Esther? and what is thy request? it shall be even given thee to the half of the kingdom.
|
|
|-
|4
|And Esther answered, If it seem good unto the king, let the king and Haman come this day unto the banquet that I have prepared for him.
|
|
|-
|5
|Then the king said, Cause Haman to make haste, that he may do as Esther hath said. So the king and Haman came to the banquet that Esther had prepared.
|
|
|-
|6
|And the king said unto Esther at the banquet of wine, What is thy petition? and it shall be granted thee: and what is thy request? even to the half of the kingdom it shall be performed.
|
|
|-
|7
|Then answered Esther, and said, My petition and my request is;
|
|
|-
|8
|If I have found favour in the sight of the king, and if it please the king to grant my petition, and to perform my request, let the king and Haman come to the banquet that I shall prepare for them, and I will do tomorrow as the king hath said.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then went Haman forth that day joyful and with a glad heart: but when Haman saw Mordecai in the king's gate, that he stood not up, nor moved for him, he was full of indignation against Mordecai.
|
|
|-
|10
|Nevertheless Haman refrained himself: and when he came home, he sent and called for his friends, and Zeresh his wife.
|
|
|-
|11
|And Haman told them of the glory of his riches, and the multitude of his children, and all the things wherein the king had promoted him, and how he had advanced him above the princes and servants of the king.
|
|
|-
|12
|Haman said moreover, Yea, Esther the queen did let no man come in with the king unto the banquet that she had prepared but myself; and to morrow am I invited unto her also with the king.
|
|
|-
|13
|Yet all this availeth me nothing, so long as I see Mordecai the Jew sitting at the king's gate.
|
|
|-
|14
|Then said Zeresh his wife and all his friends unto him, Let a gallows be made of fifty cubits high, and tomorrow speak thou unto the king that Mordecai may be hanged thereon: then go thou in merrily with the king unto the banquet. And the thing pleased Haman; and he caused the gallows to be made.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 6==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|On that night could not the king sleep, and he commanded to bring the book of records of the chronicles; and they were read before the king.
|
|
|-
|2
|And it was found written, that Mordecai had told of Bigthana and Teresh, two of the king's chamberlains, the keepers of the door, who sought to lay hand on the king Ahasuerus.
|
|
|-
|3
|And the king said, What honour and dignity hath been done to Mordecai for this? Then said the king's servants that ministered unto him, There is nothing done for him.
|
|
|-
|4
|And the king said, Who is in the court? Now Haman was come into the outward court of the king's house, to speak unto the king to hang Mordecai on the gallows that he had prepared for him.
|
|
|-
|5
|And the king's servants said unto him, Behold, Haman standeth in the court. And the king said, Let him come in.
|
|
|-
|6
|So Haman came in. And the king said unto him, What shall be done unto the man whom the king delighteth to honour? Now Haman thought in his heart, To whom would the king delight to do honour more than to myself?
|
|
|-
|7
|And Haman answered the king, For the man whom the king delighteth to honour,
|
|
|-
|8
|Let the royal apparel be brought which the king useth to wear, and the horse that the king rideth upon, and the crown royal which is set upon his head:
|
|
|-
|9
|And let this apparel and horse be delivered to the hand of one of the king's most noble princes, that they may array the man withal whom the king delighteth to honour, and bring him on horseback through the street of the city, and proclaim before him, Thus shall it be done to the man whom the king delighteth to honour.
|
|
|-
|10
|Then the king said to Haman, Make haste, and take the apparel and the horse, as thou hast said, and do even so to Mordecai the Jew, that sitteth at the king's gate: let nothing fail of all that thou has spoken.
|
|
|-
|11
|Then took Haman the apparel and the horse, and arrayed Mordecai, and brought him on horseback through the street of the city, and proclaimed before him, Thus shall it be done unto the man whom the king delighteth to honour.
|
|
|-
|12
|And Mordecai came again to the king's gate. But Haman hasted to his house mourning, and having his head covered.
|
|
|-
|13
|And Haman told Zeresh his wife and all his friends every thing that had befallen him. Then said his wise men and Zeresh his wife unto him, If Mordecai be of the seed of the Jews, before whom thou hast begun to fall, thou shalt not prevail against him, but shalt surely fall before him.
|
|
|-
|14
|And while they were yet talking with him, came the king's chamberlains, and hasted to bring Haman unto the banquet that Esther had prepared.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 7==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|So the king and Haman came to banquet with Esther the queen.
|
|
|-
|2
|And the king said again unto Esther on the second day at the banquet of wine, What is thy petition, queen Esther? and it shall be granted thee: and what is thy request? and it shall be performed, even to the half of the kingdom.
|
|
|-
|3
|Then Esther the queen answered and said, If I have found favour in thy sight, O king, and if it please the king, let my life be given me at my petition, and my people at my request:
|
|
|-
|4
|For we are sold, I and my people, to be destroyed, to be slain, and to perish. But if we had been sold for bondmen and bondwomen, I had held my tongue, although the enemy could not countervail the king's damage.
|
|
|-
|5
|Then the king Ahasuerus answered and said unto Esther the queen, Who is he, and where is he, that durst presume in his heart to do so?
|
|
|-
|6
|And Esther said, The adversary and enemy is this wicked Haman. Then Haman was afraid before the king and the queen.
|
|
|-
|7
|And the king arising from the banquet of wine in his wrath went into the palace garden: and Haman stood up to make request for his life to Esther the queen; for he saw that there was evil determined against him by the king.
|
|
|-
|8
|Then the king returned out of the palace garden into the place of the banquet of wine; and Haman was fallen upon the bed whereon Esther was. Then said the king, Will he force the queen also before me in the house? As the word went out of the king's mouth, they covered Haman's face.
|
|
|-
|9
|And Harbonah, one of the chamberlains, said before the king, Behold also, the gallows fifty cubits high, which Haman had made for Mordecai, who had spoken good for the king, standeth in the house of Haman. Then the king said, Hang him thereon.
|
|
|-
|10
|So they hanged Haman on the gallows that he had prepared for Mordecai. Then was the king's wrath pacified.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 8==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|On that day did the king Ahasuerus give the house of Haman the Jews' enemy unto Esther the queen. And Mordecai came before the king; for Esther had told what he was unto her.
|
|
|-
|2
|And the king took off his ring, which he had taken from Haman, and gave it unto Mordecai. And Esther set Mordecai over the house of Haman.
|
|
|-
|3
|And Esther spake yet again before the king, and fell down at his feet, and besought him with tears to put away the mischief of Haman the Agagite, and his device that he had devised against the Jews.
|
|
|-
|4
|Then the king held out the golden sceptre toward Esther. So Esther arose, and stood before the king,
|
|
|-
|5
|And said, If it please the king, and if I have found favour in his sight, and the thing seem right before the king, and I be pleasing in his eyes, let it be written to reverse the letters devised by Haman the son of Hammedatha the Agagite, which he wrote to destroy the Jews which are in all the king's provinces:
|
|
|-
|6
|For how can I endure to see the evil that shall come unto my people? or how can I endure to see the destruction of my kindred?
|
|
|-
|7
|Then the king Ahasuerus said unto Esther the queen and to Mordecai the Jew, Behold, I have given Esther the house of Haman, and him they have hanged upon the gallows, because he laid his hand upon the Jews.
|
|
|-
|8
|Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's ring: for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then were the king's scribes called at that time in the third month, that is, the month Sivan, on the three and twentieth day thereof; and it was written according to all that Mordecai commanded unto the Jews, and to the lieutenants, and the deputies and rulers of the provinces which are from India unto Ethiopia, an hundred twenty and seven provinces, unto every province according to the writing thereof, and unto every people after their language, and to the Jews according to their writing, and according to their language.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he wrote in the king Ahasuerus' name, and sealed it with the king's ring, and sent letters by posts on horseback, and riders on mules, camels, and young dromedaries:
|
|
|-
|11
|Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey,
|
|
|-
|12
|Upon one day in all the provinces of king Ahasuerus, namely, upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar.
|
|
|-
|13
|The copy of the writing for a commandment to be given in every province was published unto all people, and that the Jews should be ready against that day to avenge themselves on their enemies.
|
|
|-
|14
|So the posts that rode upon mules and camels went out, being hastened and pressed on by the king's commandment. And the decree was given at Shushan the palace.
|
|
|-
|15
|And Mordecai went out from the presence of the king in royal apparel of blue and white, and with a great crown of gold, and with a garment of fine linen and purple: and the city of Shushan rejoiced and was glad.
|
|
|-
|16
|The Jews had light, and gladness, and joy, and honour.
|
|
|-
|17
|And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 9==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now in the twelfth month, that is, the month Adar, on the thirteenth day of the same, when the king's commandment and his decree drew near to be put in execution, in the day that the enemies of the Jews hoped to have power over them, (though it was turned to the contrary, that the Jews had rule over them that hated them;)
|
|
|-
|2
|The Jews gathered themselves together in their cities throughout all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus, to lay hand on such as sought their hurt: and no man could withstand them; for the fear of them fell upon all people.
|
|
|-
|3
|And all the rulers of the provinces, and the lieutenants, and the deputies, and officers of the king, helped the Jews; because the fear of Mordecai fell upon them.
|
|
|-
|4
|For Mordecai was great in the king's house, and his fame went out throughout all the provinces: for this man Mordecai waxed greater and greater.
|
|
|-
|5
|Thus the Jews smote all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, and slaughter, and destruction, and did what they would unto those that hated them.
|
|
|-
|6
|And in Shushan the palace the Jews slew and destroyed five hundred men.
|
|
|-
|7
|And Parshandatha, and Dalphon, and Aspatha,
|
|
|-
|8
|And Poratha, and Adalia, and Aridatha,
|
|
|-
|9
|And Parmashta, and Arisai, and Aridai, and Vajezatha,
|
|
|-
|10
|The ten sons of Haman the son of Hammedatha, the enemy of the Jews, slew they; but on the spoil laid they not their hand.
|
|
|-
|11
|On that day the number of those that were slain in Shushan the palace was brought before the king.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the king said unto Esther the queen, The Jews have slain and destroyed five hundred men in Shushan the palace, and the ten sons of Haman; what have they done in the rest of the king's provinces? now what is thy petition? and it shall be granted thee: or what is thy request further? and it shall be done.
|
|
|-
|13
|Then said Esther, If it please the king, let it be granted to the Jews which are in Shushan to do tomorrow also according unto this day's decree, and let Haman's ten sons be hanged upon the gallows.
|
|
|-
|14
|And the king commanded it so to be done: and the decree was given at Shushan; and they hanged Haman's ten sons.
|
|
|-
|15
|For the Jews that were in Shushan gathered themselves together on the fourteenth day also of the month Adar, and slew three hundred men at Shushan; but on the prey they laid not their hand.
|
|
|-
|16
|But the other Jews that were in the king's provinces gathered themselves together, and stood for their lives, and had rest from their enemies, and slew of their foes seventy and five thousand, but they laid not their hands on the prey,
|
|
|-
|17
|On the thirteenth day of the month Adar; and on the fourteenth day of the same rested they, and made it a day of feasting and gladness.
|
|
|-
|18
|But the Jews that were at Shushan assembled together on the thirteenth day thereof; and on the fourteenth thereof; and on the fifteenth day of the same they rested, and made it a day of feasting and gladness.
|
|
|-
|19
|Therefore the Jews of the villages, that dwelt in the unwalled towns, made the fourteenth day of the month Adar a day of gladness and feasting, and a good day, and of sending portions one to another.
|
|
|-
|20
|And Mordecai wrote these things, and sent letters unto all the Jews that were in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus, both nigh and far,
|
|
|-
|21
|To stablish this among them, that they should keep the fourteenth day of the month Adar, and the fifteenth day of the same, yearly,
|
|
|-
|22
|As the days wherein the Jews rested from their enemies, and the month which was turned unto them from sorrow to joy, and from mourning into a good day: that they should make them days of feasting and joy, and of sending portions one to another, and gifts to the poor.
|
|
|-
|23
|And the Jews undertook to do as they had begun, and as Mordecai had written unto them;
|
|
|-
|24
|Because Haman the son of Hammedatha, the Agagite, the enemy of all the Jews, had devised against the Jews to destroy them, and had cast Pur, that is, the lot, to consume them, and to destroy them;
|
|
|-
|25
|But when Esther came before the king, he commanded by letters that his wicked device, which he devised against the Jews, should return upon his own head, and that he and his sons should be hanged on the gallows.
|
|
|-
|26
|Wherefore they called these days Purim after the name of Pur. Therefore for all the words of this letter, and of that which they had seen concerning this matter, and which had come unto them,
|
|
|-
|27
|The Jews ordained, and took upon them, and upon their seed, and upon all such as joined themselves unto them, so as it should not fail, that they would keep these two days according to their writing, and according to their appointed time every year;
|
|
|-
|28
|And that these days should be remembered and kept throughout every generation, every family, every province, and every city; and that these days of Purim should not fail from among the Jews, nor the memorial of them perish from their seed.
|
|
|-
|29
|Then Esther the queen, the daughter of Abihail, and Mordecai the Jew, wrote with all authority, to confirm this second letter of Purim.
|
|
|-
|30
|And he sent the letters unto all the Jews, to the hundred twenty and seven provinces of the kingdom of Ahasuerus, with words of peace and truth,
|
|
|-
|31
|To confirm these days of Purim in their times appointed, according as Mordecai the Jew and Esther the queen had enjoined them, and as they had decreed for themselves and for their seed, the matters of the fastings and their cry.
|
|
|-
|32
|And the decree of Esther confirmed these matters of Purim; and it was written in the book.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 10==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the king Ahasuerus laid a tribute upon the land, and upon the isles of the sea.
|
|
|-
|2
|And all the acts of his power and of his might, and the declaration of the greatness of Mordecai, whereunto the king advanced him, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Media and Persia?
|
|
|-
|3
|For Mordecai the Jew was next unto king Ahasuerus, and great among the Jews, and accepted of the multitude of his brethren, seeking the wealth of his people, and speaking peace to all his seed.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Second Epistle to the Thessalonians (Translated)

2013-02-24T17:10:06Z

Onestone:

{{ConservativeBible}}
__TOC__

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
|From Paul, Silvanus, and Timotheus, to the church of the Thessalonians, united in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
|
|-
|2
|Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|Grace and peace of mind to you, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|
|-
|3
|We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
|It is well for us to thank God for you, always, our brothers, for your faith grows quickly, and the charity that each of you show to each other is great.
|
|-
|4
|So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
|That's why we exalt you in the churches of God: for your patience and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring.
|
|-
|5
|[Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
|A tangible token of the righteous judgement of God, so that you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, which you suffer for as we do
|
|-
|6
|Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
|God is just, and will bring trouble on those who trouble you,
|
|-
|7
|And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
|and to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus will come again from heaven, with his mighty angels,
|
|-
|8
|In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
|Will take vengeance with flaming fire upon those in denial of God, and who ignore the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ
|The 'vengeance with flaming fire' is in the original Greek text, and should be translated.
|-
|9
|Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
|Whose punishment shall be an everlasting and destructive separation from the Lord and from His glorious power;
|
|-
|10
|When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
|when Jesus comes again and his glory is celebrated by the faithful, and loved by all who know his word to be true
|Difficult phrase. not entirely sure if "saints" is appropriate here. Perhaps "faithful" is what was intended. "Admired" is no longer expressive of the devotion we have for Christ - love is more appropriate
|-
|11
|Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:
|We will always pray for you, that God considers you among the blessed and that you will know His goodness, power and salvation
|Remember that this is a letter from Paul to distinct people. An effort should be made to preserve the context of the chapters.
|-
|12
|That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, praise be to him, and the Holy Father. May you be blessed always.
|
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
|We ask you, friends, in regards to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being with Him
|
|-
|2
|That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
|Do not be startled or troubled by either a spirit, a comment, or by a letter purportedly written by us, that says Christ has already returned
|
|-
|3
|Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
|Don't let any man deceive you. That day won't come until there is a rebellion and the sinful man is shown for who he is, the son of destruction,
|
|-
|4
|Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
|who opposes and praises himself above everything worshiped or called God. He will even sit in the temple of God, calling himself God.
|
|-
|5
|Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
|Don't you recall that I told you this when I was with you?
|
|-
|6
|And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
|You know what restrains him so he will only be revealed when the time comes.
|
|-
|7
|For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
|His covert lawlessness is already at work, but only while it is held back. Once He who holds it back is taken away,
|
|-
|8
|And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
|then the Evil will be revealed, who the Lord will destroy with his breath. He will smite his shining appearance,
|
|-
|9
|[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
|the man who comes to do Satan's work with great power and deceitful shows and miracles.
|
|-
|10
|And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
|The unrighteous will perish because of their self-deception, because they never received God's true love, which was to save them.
|
|-
|11
|And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
|It is for this reason that God will let them deceive themselves into believing a lie,
|
|-
|12
|That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
|that they will be condemned for not believing the truth, but reveled in unrighteousness.
|
|-
|13
|But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
|We must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the start to be saved through the purifying of the Spirit and believing the truth.
|Difficult but important translation. Improvements?
|-
|14
|Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
|He call you to him by our gospel so you could receive Lord Jesus Christ's glory.
|
|-
|15
|Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
|So brothers, stand firm and stick with the behavior our words and letters have taught you.
|
|-
|16
|Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
|We pray Lord Jesus Christ and God our loving father, who always comforts and gives us hope of salvation,
|
|-
|17
|Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
|comforts your hearts and strengthen you in your good words and work.
|
|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you:
|Finally, pray for us, Brothers, that the Lord's word will direct us and be glorified in us as it is in you.
|
|-
|2
|And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all [men] have not faith.
|That we will be protected from illogical and evil men, since not all men have faith.
|"unreasonable" has lost its distinct meaning.
|-
|3
|But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep [you] from evil.
|The Lord is faithful and will strengthen you and shield you from evil.
|
|-
|4
|And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
|We have confidence the Lord will touch your minds, that you are doing those things which we tell you.
|
|-
|5
|And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
|That the Lord steer your hearts to know the love of God and wait patiently for Christ's return.
|
|-
|6
|Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
|So we charge you, brothers, in the name of Lord Jesus Christ, to leave every brother who lives immorally and against the way He gave to us.
|"Command" seems a bit odd for the relationship between disciples, but does reflect God's commands. "Charge" seems to get the urgency across. Ideas?
|-
|7
|For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
|You know what your behavior should be, since we were not immoral among you.
|
|-
|8
|Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
|We didn't eat anyone's food for nothing but paid through our hard work, night and day, so we weren't any in your debt.
|
|-
|9
|Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
|Not because we didn't have the right, but to make an example of ourselves that you can follow.
|
|-
|10
|For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
|For we charged you when we were with you, "if any man won't work, he won't eat."
|Capitalism in a nutshell.
|-
|11
|For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
|We've heard there are those about you who live immorally, never working, but always interfering.
|
|-
|12
|Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
|We command those men in the name of Lord Jesus Christ to work diligently and earn their own keep.
|"Command" works better here, where it is no recommendation, but a correction.
|-
|13
|But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
|Brothers, do not grow tired of living well.
|
|-
|14
|And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
|If any man won't obey this letter, mark that man and do not mix with him, so he will see his errors.
|
|-
|15
|Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother.
|But do not cast him as an enemy, but correct him as your brother.
|
|-
|16
|Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord [be] with you all.
|The Lord of Peace always give you peace of mind. The Lord be with all of you.
|
|-
|17
|The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
|I add Paul's greeting, which is the sign of every letter, in my own writing:
|
|-
|18
|The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.
|"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you. Amen."
|
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Second Epistle to the Thessalonians (Translated)

2013-02-24T17:07:22Z

Onestone: insertion of 'ignorance' doesn't seem necessary

{{ConservativeBible}}
__TOC__

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
|From Paul, Silvanus, and Timotheus, to the church of the Thessalonians, united in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
|
|-
|2
|Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|Grace and peace of mind to you, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|
|-
|3
|We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
|It is well for us to thank God for you, always, our brothers, for your faith grows quickly, and the charity that each of you show to each other is great.
|
|-
|4
|So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
|That's why we exalt you in the churches of God: for your patience and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring.
|
|-
|5
|[Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
|A tangible token of the righteous judgement of God, so that you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, which you suffer for as we do
|
|-
|6
|Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
|God is just, and will bring trouble on those who trouble you,
|
|-
|7
|And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
|and to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus will come again from heaven, with his mighty angels,
|
|-
|8
|In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
|Will take vengeance with flaming fire upon those in denial of God, and who ignore the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ
|The 'vengeance with flaming fire' is in the original Greek text, and should be translated.
|-
|9
|Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
|Whose punishment shall be an everlasting and destructive separation from the Lord and from His glorious power;
|
|-
|10
|When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
|when Jesus comes again and his glory is celebrated by the faithful, and loved by all who know his word to be true
|Difficult phrase. not entirely sure if "saints" is appropriate here. Perhaps "faithful" is what was intended. "Admired" is no longer expressive of the devotion we have for Christ - love is more appropriate
|-
|11
|Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:
|We will always pray for you that God considers you among the blessed and that you will know His goodness, power and salvation
|Remember that this is a letter from Paul to distinct people. An effort should be made to preserve the context of the chapters.
|-
|12
|That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, praise be to him, and the Holy Father. May you be blessed always.
|
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
|We ask you, friends, in regards to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being with Him
|
|-
|2
|That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
|Do not be startled or troubled by either a spirit, a comment, or by a letter purportedly written by us, that says Christ has already returned
|
|-
|3
|Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
|Don't let any man deceive you. That day won't come until there is a rebellion and the sinful man is shown for who he is, the son of destruction,
|
|-
|4
|Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
|who opposes and praises himself above everything worshiped or called God. He will even sit in the temple of God, calling himself God.
|
|-
|5
|Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
|Don't you recall that I told you this when I was with you?
|
|-
|6
|And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
|You know what restrains him so he will only be revealed when the time comes.
|
|-
|7
|For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
|His covert lawlessness is already at work, but only while it is held back. Once He who holds it back is taken away,
|
|-
|8
|And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
|then the Evil will be revealed, who the Lord will destroy with his breath. He will smite his shining appearance,
|
|-
|9
|[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
|the man who comes to do Satan's work with great power and deceitful shows and miracles.
|
|-
|10
|And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
|The unrighteous will perish because of their self-deception, because they never received God's true love, which was to save them.
|
|-
|11
|And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
|It is for this reason that God will let them deceive themselves into believing a lie,
|
|-
|12
|That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
|that they will be condemned for not believing the truth, but reveled in unrighteousness.
|
|-
|13
|But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
|We must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the start to be saved through the purifying of the Spirit and believing the truth.
|Difficult but important translation. Improvements?
|-
|14
|Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
|He call you to him by our gospel so you could receive Lord Jesus Christ's glory.
|
|-
|15
|Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
|So brothers, stand firm and stick with the behavior our words and letters have taught you.
|
|-
|16
|Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
|We pray Lord Jesus Christ and God our loving father, who always comforts and gives us hope of salvation,
|
|-
|17
|Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
|comforts your hearts and strengthen you in your good words and work.
|
|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you:
|Finally, pray for us, Brothers, that the Lord's word will direct us and be glorified in us as it is in you.
|
|-
|2
|And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all [men] have not faith.
|That we will be protected from illogical and evil men, since not all men have faith.
|"unreasonable" has lost its distinct meaning.
|-
|3
|But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep [you] from evil.
|The Lord is faithful and will strengthen you and shield you from evil.
|
|-
|4
|And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
|We have confidence the Lord will touch your minds, that you are doing those things which we tell you.
|
|-
|5
|And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
|That the Lord steer your hearts to know the love of God and wait patiently for Christ's return.
|
|-
|6
|Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
|So we charge you, brothers, in the name of Lord Jesus Christ, to leave every brother who lives immorally and against the way He gave to us.
|"Command" seems a bit odd for the relationship between disciples, but does reflect God's commands. "Charge" seems to get the urgency across. Ideas?
|-
|7
|For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
|You know what your behavior should be, since we were not immoral among you.
|
|-
|8
|Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
|We didn't eat anyone's food for nothing but paid through our hard work, night and day, so we weren't any in your debt.
|
|-
|9
|Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
|Not because we didn't have the right, but to make an example of ourselves that you can follow.
|
|-
|10
|For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
|For we charged you when we were with you, "if any man won't work, he won't eat."
|Capitalism in a nutshell.
|-
|11
|For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
|We've heard there are those about you who live immorally, never working, but always interfering.
|
|-
|12
|Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
|We command those men in the name of Lord Jesus Christ to work diligently and earn their own keep.
|"Command" works better here, where it is no recommendation, but a correction.
|-
|13
|But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
|Brothers, do not grow tired of living well.
|
|-
|14
|And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
|If any man won't obey this letter, mark that man and do not mix with him, so he will see his errors.
|
|-
|15
|Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother.
|But do not cast him as an enemy, but correct him as your brother.
|
|-
|16
|Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord [be] with you all.
|The Lord of Peace always give you peace of mind. The Lord be with all of you.
|
|-
|17
|The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
|I add Paul's greeting, which is the sign of every letter, in my own writing:
|
|-
|18
|The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.
|"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you. Amen."
|
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Second Epistle to the Thessalonians (Translated)

2013-02-24T17:02:46Z

Onestone:

{{ConservativeBible}}
__TOC__

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
|From Paul, Silvanus, and Timotheus, to the church of the Thessalonians, united in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
|
|-
|2
|Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|Grace and peace of mind to you, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|
|-
|3
|We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
|It is well for us to thank God for you, always, our brothers, for your faith grows quickly, and the charity that each of you show to each other is great.
|
|-
|4
|So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
|That's why we exalt you in the churches of God: for your patience and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring.
|
|-
|5
|[Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
|A tangible token of the righteous judgement of God, so that you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, which you suffer for as we do
|
|-
|6
|Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
|God is just, and will bring trouble on those who trouble you,
|
|-
|7
|And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
|and to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus will come again from heaven, with his mighty angels,
|
|-
|8
|In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
|Will take vengeance with flaming fire upon those in denial of God, and who ignore the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ
|The 'vengeance with flaming fire' is in the original Greek text, and should be translated.
|-
|9
|Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
|Whose punishment shall be an everlasting and destructive separation from the Lord, and ignorance of His glorious power;
|
|-
|10
|When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
|when Jesus comes again and his glory is celebrated by the faithful, and loved by all who know his word to be true
|Difficult phrase. not entirely sure if "saints" is appropriate here. Perhaps "faithful" is what was intended. "Admired" is no longer expressive of the devotion we have for Christ - love is more appropriate
|-
|11
|Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:
|We will always pray for you that God considers you among the blessed and that you will know His goodness, power and salvation
|Remember that this is a letter from Paul to distinct people. An effort should be made to preserve the context of the chapters.
|-
|12
|That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
|In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, praise be to him, and the Holy Father. May you be blessed always.
|
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
|We ask you, friends, in regards to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being with Him
|
|-
|2
|That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
|Do not be startled or troubled by either a spirit, a comment, or by a letter purportedly written by us, that says Christ has already returned
|
|-
|3
|Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
|Don't let any man deceive you. That day won't come until there is a rebellion and the sinful man is shown for who he is, the son of destruction,
|
|-
|4
|Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
|who opposes and praises himself above everything worshiped or called God. He will even sit in the temple of God, calling himself God.
|
|-
|5
|Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
|Don't you recall that I told you this when I was with you?
|
|-
|6
|And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
|You know what restrains him so he will only be revealed when the time comes.
|
|-
|7
|For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
|His covert lawlessness is already at work, but only while it is held back. Once He who holds it back is taken away,
|
|-
|8
|And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
|then the Evil will be revealed, who the Lord will destroy with his breath. He will smite his shining appearance,
|
|-
|9
|[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
|the man who comes to do Satan's work with great power and deceitful shows and miracles.
|
|-
|10
|And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
|The unrighteous will perish because of their self-deception, because they never received God's true love, which was to save them.
|
|-
|11
|And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
|It is for this reason that God will let them deceive themselves into believing a lie,
|
|-
|12
|That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
|that they will be condemned for not believing the truth, but reveled in unrighteousness.
|
|-
|13
|But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
|We must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the start to be saved through the purifying of the Spirit and believing the truth.
|Difficult but important translation. Improvements?
|-
|14
|Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
|He call you to him by our gospel so you could receive Lord Jesus Christ's glory.
|
|-
|15
|Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
|So brothers, stand firm and stick with the behavior our words and letters have taught you.
|
|-
|16
|Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
|We pray Lord Jesus Christ and God our loving father, who always comforts and gives us hope of salvation,
|
|-
|17
|Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
|comforts your hearts and strengthen you in your good words and work.
|
|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have [free] course, and be glorified, even as [it is] with you:
|Finally, pray for us, Brothers, that the Lord's word will direct us and be glorified in us as it is in you.
|
|-
|2
|And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all [men] have not faith.
|That we will be protected from illogical and evil men, since not all men have faith.
|"unreasonable" has lost its distinct meaning.
|-
|3
|But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep [you] from evil.
|The Lord is faithful and will strengthen you and shield you from evil.
|
|-
|4
|And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
|We have confidence the Lord will touch your minds, that you are doing those things which we tell you.
|
|-
|5
|And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
|That the Lord steer your hearts to know the love of God and wait patiently for Christ's return.
|
|-
|6
|Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
|So we charge you, brothers, in the name of Lord Jesus Christ, to leave every brother who lives immorally and against the way He gave to us.
|"Command" seems a bit odd for the relationship between disciples, but does reflect God's commands. "Charge" seems to get the urgency across. Ideas?
|-
|7
|For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
|You know what your behavior should be, since we were not immoral among you.
|
|-
|8
|Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
|We didn't eat anyone's food for nothing but paid through our hard work, night and day, so we weren't any in your debt.
|
|-
|9
|Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
|Not because we didn't have the right, but to make an example of ourselves that you can follow.
|
|-
|10
|For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
|For we charged you when we were with you, "if any man won't work, he won't eat."
|Capitalism in a nutshell.
|-
|11
|For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
|We've heard there are those about you who live immorally, never working, but always interfering.
|
|-
|12
|Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
|We command those men in the name of Lord Jesus Christ to work diligently and earn their own keep.
|"Command" works better here, where it is no recommendation, but a correction.
|-
|13
|But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
|Brothers, do not grow tired of living well.
|
|-
|14
|And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
|If any man won't obey this letter, mark that man and do not mix with him, so he will see his errors.
|
|-
|15
|Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother.
|But do not cast him as an enemy, but correct him as your brother.
|
|-
|16
|Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord [be] with you all.
|The Lord of Peace always give you peace of mind. The Lord be with all of you.
|
|-
|17
|The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
|I add Paul's greeting, which is the sign of every letter, in my own writing:
|
|-
|18
|The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.
|"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you. Amen."
|
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Latin

2013-02-24T16:43:53Z

Onestone: /* Contemporary Latin Use */ some minor edits

'''Latin''' is an [[Indo-European language]] of the [[Italic language]] family. Its closest relative was [[Umbric]], which is now extinct. Latin was the most widely spoken language in the [[Roman Empire]], and is the language from which all the [[Romance languages]] are derived. These languages include [[Spanish]], [[Romanian]], [[Portuguese]], [[Italian]], [[French]] and [[Catalan]], among others. '''Latin''' may also refer to people who speak Romance languages (most commonly Spanish or Portuguese) in the Carribean and in Central or South America.

See also [[Latino]] about [[Americans]] of Hispanic or Latin American (usually Spanish-speaking) descent in the United States.

== Latin Grammar ==

Latin [[grammar]] is marked by an extensive system of [[noun]] [[Grammatical case|cases]] and [[verb]]al inflection. Like nouns, [[adjective]]s also decline and must agree with the nouns they modify in terms of gender, [[number (grammar)|number]] and case. In addition, Latin also has the full range of other parts of speech, including [[adverb]]s and [[pronoun]]s.

=== Nouns ===

In Latin, noun cases are used to indicate the grammatical function of the noun within the sentence. By contrast, English and most modern Romance languages use the noun's position within the sentence to denote its grammatical function.

Nouns all have grammatical [[grammar|gender]] (either masculine, feminine or neuter). While nouns that correspond to people will generally match the logical gender (for example, ''puella'', meaning "girl" is feminine, while ''puer'', meaning "boy" is masculine), other nouns which do not have a natural gender will still have a grammatical gender (for example, ''arbor'', meaning "tree" is feminine, ''portus'', "harbor" is masculine, and ''bellum'', "war" is neuter). Most neuter words end in ''-um'' or ''-e'' in the nominative case.

Each Latin noun falls into one of five declensions, which will determine the endings used to indicate case. Latin has six major grammatical cases as indicated below:

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Case
! Grammatical Function
! Example Paradigm (1st Declension Singular)
|-
| '''Nominative'''
| Subject
| Puella
|-
| '''Vocative'''
| Object of Direct Address
| Puella
|-

| '''Accusative'''
| Direct Object; also used with certain prepositions, mostly concerning motion
| Puellam
|-
| '''Genitive'''
| Possessive; also used with certain prepositions; translated 'of the ...'
| Puellae
|-
| '''Dative'''
| Indirect Object; also used with certain prepositions; translated 'to/for the...'
| Puellae
|-
| '''Ablative'''
| Used with certain prepositions, mostly concerning location; also indicates agency in passive constructions; translated 'by/with/from the...'
| Puellā
|-
|}

Note that certain cases are identical to others (they may vary in other declensions); in situations where there is more than one possible case for a particular noun, the case must be determined from the context of the sentence. In Latin dictionaries, nouns listed will indicate the nominative and the genitive singular forms of the noun; this enables an experienced reader to determine the rest of that noun's declension, even if he or she has not encountered it before. Thus the noun in the example above would be listed ''puella, -ae'' in a Latin dictionary.

=== Verbs ===

Verbal morphology distinguishes [[voice (grammar)|voice]] (active and passive), time (past, present, future), [[mood (grammar)|mood]] (indicative, imperative, subjunctive, infinitive), [[aspect (grammar)|aspect]] (simple, perfective, imperfective), and [[person (grammar)|person]] (first, second, and third person in singular and plural numbers). Time and aspect are normally combined into the verb's tense. Unlike English, which uses auxiliary verbs to create a wide variety of tenses, Latin just has six (four in the subjunctive mood).

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Tense
! Time
! Aspect
! Grammatical Function
! Example Paradigm (3rd Conjugation, first person singular active indicative)
|-
| Present
| Present
| Simple or Imperfective
| Used to indicate both the present simple and present progressive.
| dico
|-
| Imperfect
| Past
| Imperfective
| Used to indicate ongoing actions in the past (which may or may not continue to the present).
| dicebam
|-
| Perfect
| Past
| Simple or Perfective
| Used to indicate both the past simple and specifically completed actions in the past.
| dixi
|-
| Pluperfect
| Past
| Perfective
| Used to indicate actions completed prior to other actions in the past.
| dixeram
|-
| Future
| Future
| Simple
| Used to indicate actions that will occur in the future.
| dicam
|-
| Future Perfect
| Future
| Perfective
| Used to indicate actions that are not complete now, but will be in the future. Usually this means actions that occur after the present but prior to other actions in the future tense.
| dixero
|}

Like nouns, the morphology of verbs in Latin is mostly indicated by regular changes in how the verb is formed, rather than through the use of auxiliary verbs, as is common in English. Most verbs fall into one of four conjugations which determine the form and the endings used to indicate the various aspects of morphology. Unlike nouns however, there are a number of irregular verbs that do not fall into any conjugation.

Latin verbs in the dictionary customarily show their four principal parts, the first person singular present active, the infinitive, the first person singular perfect active, and the supine (a form of verbal noun). Thus, the verb meaning "to say" would be listed in the dictionary as ''dico, dicere, dixi, dictum''. Using this information, an experienced Latinist can derive all of the other forms of the verb.

Latin verbs also have specialized forms including [[gerund]]s (verbal nouns mostly found only in earlier Latin), gerundives (verbal adjectives used to express necessity or obligation), [[participle]]s, and others.

== Syntax ==

Because Latin is so highly inflected, in simple sentences, [[Grammar#Syntax|word order]] is irrelevant. Thus ''Canis puerum mordet'' (The dog bites the boy) has exactly the same meaning as ''Mordet canis puerum'' or ''Puerum mordet canis''. Nevertheless, Latin did have the tendency to settle into customary word orders, generally with the verb at the end of the sentence.

When translating, it is always important to pay close attention to the words at the beginning and end of a sentence. This position connotes the importance of the word to the writer's thought, if not the actual meaning as in English.

Latin poetry, in particular, takes advantage of the flexibility of the word position in order to create pleasing minglings of grammatically unrelated words as word play or to provide secondary meanings. The flexibility of the word position also made it easier for Latin poets to conform to a particular metre. {{who says}}

== Linguistic Descendants ==

The modern Romance languages are almost entirely descended from Vulgar Latin, which was Latin spoken by the common people in the later centuries of the Roman Empire. Changes from Classical to Vulgar Latin included the merger of long /e:/ and /o:/ with short /i/ and /u/, respectively, the loss of /h/ and the accusative nasalization, and the replacement of cases, tenses, and voices with periphrastic constructions (this change occurred across western Europe)<ref>[http://www.lrc.columbia.edu/lrc/?q=node/194 Columbia University Language Resource Center]</ref>. Latin has also given us the alphabet used to write most Western European languages, including English.

Direct modern descendants of Latin include French, Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, Romanian, Italian and a variety of less well known languages. Collectively, these are known as Romance languages. In addition, many other languages, such as English and German, have large numbers of Latin loanwords that have been absorbed into the language.

Latin was also the language used by educated elites throughout the [[Middle Ages]] and [[the Renaissance]] in Western Europe. Thus a wide variety of medieval literature, ranging from theological works to histories to scientific works to legal records to literature were all written in Latin, not the author's mother tongue. This had the advantage of facilitating communication between educated people throughout Europe.

Until 1962, Latin was the language in which all Roman [[Catholic]] masses were conducted. A number of Roman Catholics still conduct Mass in Latin, and Latin is still the official language of the Roman Catholic Church. Phonologically, Latin is generally similar to other western languages of the Indo-European family.{{who says}}

== Contemporary Latin Use ==

Much of the Latin read nowadays is [[literature]] written during the latter days of the [[Roman Republic]] and during the [[Roman Empire]]. In particular, the first century BC is considered a golden age of Latin literature, with such notable poets as [[Catullus]], [[Horace]] and [[Virgil]], historians such as [[Livy]] and other writers such as [[Cicero]]. Many other Roman writers outside of the first century BC, such as [[Plautus]], [[Seneca]], [[Juvenal]] and [[Tacitus]], are important authors whose works continue to be influential in modern culture and literature. In addition to being enjoyed in their own right, they are also important for the study of Roman history and culture.

In addition, many of the Fathers of the Church, such as [[Augustine]] and [[Gregory the Great]], wrote in Latin. One of the most important translations of the Bible was the Latin [[Vulgate]] by [[Jerome]], which was completed in the fourth century AD and allowed the common people (Lat. ''vulgus'') to understand the Bible in their native language instead of Hebrew or Greek.

Today, Latin remains the official language of the Catholic Church, although the Vatican II council removed the requirement for services to be conducted in Latin. Ecclesiastical Latin (aka "Church Latin"), as it is known, is pronounced similar to modern Italian as opposed to classic Roman pronunciation. In the main, however, Latin is not spoken anymore; and as such oral Latin is not taught in most schools; the emphasis is on reading and translation.

Latin was also very important in the development of law, both because of the highly influential [[Justinian Code|Civil Code of Justinian]] and because of the use of Latin in the composition of the writs used in English [[Common Law]]. The persistence of Latin may be seen in legal terms such as "[[certiorari|writ of certiorari]]" or "[[Adjournment Sine Die|adjournment sine die]]".

Latin (along with Greek) is also used by scientists of all kinds, from biologists to chemists. Latin is particularly used when naming things such as biological species or chemical elements. Latin terms are also used extensively in medicine, reflecting the significance of medieval medical schools.

For many, however, the attractiveness of learning Latin comes from the fact that it is intellectually challenging; many of those who study the language will not enter a field directly related to it.

== Further reading ==

* John F. Collins, ''A Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin'', Catholic University of America Press (1985), ISBN 0-8132-0667-7 An introductory Latin text based mainly on medieval ecclesiastical sources.
* Nicholas Ostler, '' Ad Infinitum: a Biography of Latin'', Walker and Company, New York (2007) ISBN 0-8027-1515-X A history of the Latin language.
* Bob Moore and Maxine Moore, '' Dictionary of Latin and Greek Origins: a Comprehensive Guide to the Classical Origins of English Words'', Barnes and Noble, Inc, New York (2000) ISBN 0-7607-2082-7

== References ==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Latin]]
[[Category:Romance languages]]
[[Category:Latin Phrases]]

Debate: Should we criminalize homosexuality?

2013-02-24T15:32:24Z

Onestone: /* No */

==conservapedia is ridiculous ==
I believe homosexuals are equals. I am a top contributor of conservapedia and condemn all of my views I am extremely sorry to those whom I have mislead

In order to save our economy, we must criminalize homosexuality. Punishing them by death is a bit too extreme, as we Americans need to show that we are more moral than those who punish homosexuality through death. Instead, I suggest we ''deport'' them any communist/socialist state (Cuba, Venezuela, China, and North Korea). These countries are definitely more tolerant towards their gay population since there is never any communist state that criminalizes homosexuality. Or maybe we should send the entire gay population in America to Japan. Since many anime portray homosexuals in a more positive light and Japan happens to be the gay friendliest country in the world, we deport homosexuals there instead.--[[User:JacobMS|JacobMS]] 23:42, 5 July 2011 (EDT)
:I am afraid to say that unfortunately JacobMS, you seem to not understand the difference between correlation and causation. --[[User:DamianJohn|DamianJohn]] 01:22, 6 July 2011 (EDT)
:: Homosexuality wasn't legalised until well into the 1970s in Britain, the empire was crumbling well before then [[User:TonyB|TonyB]] 21:48, 28 August 2011 (EDT)

Christianity clearly prohibits homosexuality, and since America is a CHRISTIAN country, we need to outlaw homosexuality to protect the country from sin. ---[[User:DennisRifkin|DennisR]] 07:32, 14 August 2011 (EDT)
::According to the Treaty of Tripoli of 1796, America is not a Christian nation. See: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html. And I quote: "Art. 11. The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;" From the founding fathers themselves, practically. John Adams was president at the time and proudly signed and announced it, and it, along with the rest of the treaty of course, was unanimously agreed upon by the senate. I needed to point that out. --[[NSmyth|NSmyth]] 19:28, 28 August, 2011 (EDT)

Yes. After Roe v. Wade, Lawrence v. Texas is the worst Supreme Court Decision in the history of the United States. It needs to be overturned and a federal anti-Homosexuality law passed. --[[User:OliviaB|OliviaB]] 17:02, 28 August 2011 (EDT)

Yes. Please see: [[Homosexuality and murders]], [[Homosexual Couples and Domestic Violence]] and [[Homosexuality and health]]. When one looks at the [[homosexuality and health]] article, it is really not that surprising that [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=undP3-0yEn8 Indian lady Christian dancers are far more graceful] than the [[Lesbianism and obesity|obesity infested lesbian population.]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH4ZTSUZQWM&list=PLFD5B143F743EB6B1] :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 17:18, 28 August 2011 (EDT)
:There's also [[Mental Health and Homosexuality]] and [[Gay Bowel Syndrome]] --[[User:OliviaB|OliviaB]] 17:28, 28 August 2011 (EDT)
:::OliviaB, you are being redundant. Is that not covered under [[Homosexuality and health]]? (you are probably not the first parodist guilty of being redundant) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 17:36, 28 August 2011 (EDT)
:I believe homosexuals are causing our economy to decline. Just look at India, a country that barely tolerates [[homosexuality]], and it's GDP is steadily increasing and becoming an economic. Many other countries like Portugal, Greece, Netherlands, Sweden, and Spain are suffering economically and they have either legalized same-sex marriage or have more liberal "gay rights." And many empires have collapsed due to the acceptance of homosexuality (Roman Empire, Mongol Empire, and the British Empire).
:I believe ''white people'' are causing our economy to decline. Just look at India, a country that ''doesn't have many white people'', and it's GDP is steadily increasing and becoming an economic. Many other countries like Portugal, Greece, Netherlands, Sweden, and Spain are suffering economically and they have either legalized ''being white'' or have more liberal "white folks." And many empires have collapsed due to the acceptance of ''white people'' (Every place colonized by Spain and England before 1900).
:I think you're onto something. [[User:SEdwin|SEdwin]] 01:55, 4 June 2012 (EDT)

==No==

The last thing we need in this country are more liberal, nanny state policies like this. The only thing criminalization of homosexuality would accomplish is more spending on law enforcement and increased governmental control of our lives. There would also be no way to enforce it, since making love in the street is already illegal, and homosexuals could just claim public displays of affection as political statements protected by the first amendment, which would clog our court systems even worse than they already are. There is no objective way to prove homosexuality outside the bedroom, so that throws a giant wrench into any possibility of enforcement.

Government control is a slippery slope. It starts with the criminalization of deviant sexual practices, and before you know it, the government is controlling who breeds with who and when. Homosexuality may be sinful and immoral, but it is the lesser of two evils. [[User:FCapra|FCapra]] 00:19, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Technically, Homosexuality is not in major violation of the majority of the country's morals, and so there's not reason to criminalize it. What happens in the bedrooms of a loving, consensual couple should not be of any concern to anyone else. [[User:Geosurgeon|Geosurgeon]] 16:19 PM August 28, 2011 (EDT)

No. Even if I did agree that homosexuality is wrong(which I don't), I don't think it could make it through the house or senate. Evidence from both sides is way too shaky, and the religious motive behind it would be dangerously close to being unconstitutional. It would also bring up many comparisons to Nazi Germany, where they criminalized homosexuality, by punishment of death, and while I'm fully aware that even if such legislation was to be written up, it wouldn't be nearly as terrible as Nazi Germany, the comparison would stick the moment it became public. Furthermore, the amount of money such legislation would cost(sinking money into already overzealous law enforcement, and the prison system for a completely ridiculous piece of legislation would be a terrible idea no matter how you look at it) in the end would be enormous and a terribly unnecessary and unaffordable burden on America and Americans in today's economic climate. [[NSmyth|NSmyth]] 19:37 28 August, 2011 (EDT)

No. We should prevent homosexual marriage, but while America was founded a Christian nation (see [http://creationwiki.org/William_Penn William Penn]), it was founded on the understanding that other views should be allowed to coexist. As Thomas Jefferson said in the [http://creationwiki.org/Virginia_statute_for_religious_freedom Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom],
{{cquote|"Whereas, Almighty God hath created the mind free;
That all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens, or by civil incapacitations tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and therefore are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being Lord, both of body and mind yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do, That the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavouring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time...
That to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy which at once destroys all religious liberty because he being of course judge of that tendency will make his opinions the rule of judgment and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own;"}}
Jefferson believed that while government should imitate the style of the Bible, God did not force others to believe through coercion, and neither should we. So long as their lifestyles don't affect the rights of others to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, they should be allowed to live as they please. Marriage should not be allowed because it affects the public sphere but what they do in the privacy of their own homes ought to be their business.

If you look at what the Bible says, it says we can't justly judge others according to the Mosaic Law because by it, we ourselves are guilty. Only God can judge by such a Law, because we ourselves are all guilty of death before God, and cannot expect God to forgive us if we can't forgive others. We cannot cast the first stone without being sinless ourselves.
{{cquote|Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.}}

Homosexuality is just one of a number of sexual sins that include divorce, adultery, and lusting after the wives of others in one's heart. All are guilty of death before God, and cannot cast the first stone if not sinless themselves. Those who judge others according to the Law will not be forgiven by God their own guilt; and all are guilty. --[[User:Jzy|Jzy]] 02:45, 4 June 2012 (EDT)

Although I do not approve of homosexuality, I believe criminalizing it won't work in practice. It will lead to unnecessary spending, and if the offenders are imprisoned they could still perform homosexual acts in prison. A better way to reduce the extent of homosexuality is by teaching its dangers to our children (See [[homosexuality and health]]), and show just how magnificent it is to be attracted to the opposite sex. That way the future generations will have little if any awareness of homosexuality. We can also act against the root causes of homosexuality (e.g. the liberal media, sex education) and without these homosexuality will become even rarer. [[C12Elliot]]

Absolutely not. It is a government intrusion into private life. The founders believed in personal freedom; our country was based on those freedoms. If it were to be criminalized, it would have to be a constitutional amendment, due to Lawrence vs. Texas.-Alpine

==No==
I think a top notch question that you all to ask yourselves is? '''If the bible teaches acceptance, then why do you all see gays as not even people?''' Please provide an actual answer to this question without trialing off onto something totally unrelated please.

I need to also say, like it or not that America isn't completely cristian, we aren't in the 19th century anymore, America is completely multicultural with many different races, religions and sexualities. I mean we have a black president now, get with the times. America is no longer a nation just for white Christian people that stick to the bible like super glue. I can't believe I read a suggestion to deport all homosexuals, if you wanted to deport all people that disagreed with your conservative views you wouldn't have a very big nation would you? Of course, when someone on conservapedia prevents an argument you can't rebut you just block them as a troll right? Well in this case that would only serve to prove my point, rather than see someone actually debate with me on this like a real man will you just leave the judgement up to your "god" to do? He made me [[Homosexual|this way]] if he hates it so much, why create gay people to begin with? --[[User:ZacB|ZacB]] 22:07, 23 February 2013 (EST)
::Wow, so many distortions in just two paragraphs. Nobody here hates gay people, it's just that we don't accept that kind of lifestyle. I find your insinuations that conservatives are racist somewhat bizarre, as it's always been the Democrats who were supportive of segregation.

::The diversity of "sexualities" is one of the major problems of the modern western world. Once homosexuality is fully legitimized than next we will say that incest is OK, followed by pedophilia, bestiality and whatever sexual acts man's perverted mind can think of. While none of us hate homosexuals, we realize that their behavior poses a threat both to their lives and to the lives of others. I've seen on your user page that you identify yourself as a homosexual. If you'll skim through this website you'll find out that this lifestyle can only leads to tears and misery. I hope you'll get help as soon possible, I'm really worried about your physical and mental health.

::Anyway, in regards to question of this debate, I think that homosexuality should be criminalized, but first time offenders should be able to get lenient sentences so long as they are willing to receive treatment. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 22:26, 23 February 2013 (EST)

:::"''Once homosexuality is fully legitimized than next we will say that incest is OK, followed by pedophilia, bestiality and whatever sexual acts man's perverted mind can think of''." That's an example of one of the oldest and stalest fallacies in the book (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html) and as such not helpful to the debate. (By the way, the fallacy is very easy to produce. Here's one of mine: "Once homosexuality is fully criminalized, then next we will say that atheism should be criminalized as well, and not going to church on Sunday, and masturbation and whatever acts conservatives abhor").

:::If some homosexuals do happen to lead an unhappy life, I think it's mostly because vocal parts of society don't accept them or even (like Markman) are eager to criminalize them. However, criminalizing homosexuality would constitute a government intrusion into the private life of its citizens, which runs counter to the very freedoms America was based on. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 08:37, 24 February 2013 (EST)

::::The fact that legitimization of homosexuality will eventually lead to the legitimization of incest is not a slippery slope fallacy but a simple use of logic. If we say that it's OK for two men to have sex each other so long as it's consensual, why not say that it's OK for a brother and a sister or mother and her son to have sex with each other so long as it's consensual?

::::And anyway the founding fathers never intended to have a right for sodomy. Thomas Jefferson [http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendVIIIs10.html advocated for castration as a punishment for sodomy], which just to clarify is not something I or anyone else on this website advocates (not even the parodist who started this debate).

::::Finally, homosexuals live a miserable life not due to oppression, but due to the fact that their behavior is immoral and unhealthy. There's ample of evidence on this website regarding that. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 09:01, 24 February 2013 (EST)

:::::It's still a slippery slope fallacy, Markman. If your example is inherently ''logical'', then the next statement is just as logical: "If we adopt the logic that it's OK for a man and a woman to have sex with each other so long as it's consensual, why not say that it's OK for a brother and a sister or mother and her son to have sex so long as it's consensual?"

:::::You are right that Jefferson's proposal was not exactly gay friendly, but it should be added that he intended to ''liberalize'' the sodomy laws in Virginia at that time, which prescribed death as the maximum penalty for the crime of sodomy.

:::::Finally, if homosexuals happen to lead a miserable life, it is mostly due to to the fact that they are oppressed and not accepted by people who think they have an immoral and unhealthy lifestyle. The information on this website doesn't really qualify as evidence. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 10:32, 24 February 2013 (EST)

[[Category:Debate]]
[[Category:Homosexuality]]

Debate: Should we criminalize homosexuality?

2013-02-24T13:37:36Z

Onestone: /* No */

Talk:Wood Floors Vacuuming Recommendations

2013-02-23T15:40:23Z

Onestone: Spam

== Spam ==

Looks like spam to me. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 10:40, 23 February 2013 (EST)

Exodus 8-14 (Translated)

2013-02-23T14:26:59Z

Onestone:

==Chapter 8==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD spake unto Moses, Go unto Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
|And the [[YHWH|LORD]] said to [[Moses]], "Go to [[Pharaoh]] and tell him: "The LORD says, 'Dismiss my people so that they may be free to worship Me.'"
|Pharaoh = [[Neferhotep]]
|-
|2
|And if thou refuse to let them go, behold, I will smite all thy borders with frogs:
|"'And if you refuse to dismiss them, I will attack you with [[frog]]s within all your boundaries.'"
|Frogs were [[God-substitute]]s in ancient Egypt; killing one was sacrilege. Now imagine them always underfoot!
|-
|3
|And the river shall bring forth frogs abundantly, which shall go up and come into thine house, and into thy bedchamber, and upon thy bed, and into the house of thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thine ovens, and into thy kneadingtroughs:
|"The Nile will team with frogs, and they will get into everything--into your house, into your bedroom, onto your bed, into your servants' quarters, all over your people, and into your ovens and bread-making troughs.'"
|
|-
|4
|And the frogs shall come up both on thee, and upon thy people, and upon all thy servants.
|"'And the frogs will go after you, your family and your servants.'"
|
|-
|5
| And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch forth thine hand with thy rod over the streams, over the rivers, and over the ponds, and cause frogs to come up upon the land of Egypt.
|Then the LORD told Moses, "Tell [[Aaron]], 'Reach out across the streams and waterways with your rod, and summon the frogs to come to Egypt.'"
|
|-
|6
| And Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt; and the frogs came up, and covered the land of Egypt.
|So Aaron reached out over the water, and up came the frogs, and they covered the country of [[Egypt]].
|
|-
|7
| And the magicians did so with their enchantments, and brought up frogs upon the land of Egypt.
|The sacred scribes used their occult arts to summon more frogs.
|
|-
|8
| Then Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron, and said, Intreat the LORD, that he may take away the frogs from me, and from my people; and I will let the people go, that they may do sacrifice unto the LORD.
|So Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron, and asked them, "Ask the LORD to get rid of the frogs, and in return I will dismiss your people so that they can worship the LORD.
|This is the first break, however temporary, in [[Neferhotep]]'s attitude.
|-
|9
| And Moses said unto Pharaoh, Glory over me: when shall I intreat for thee, and for thy servants, and for thy people, to destroy the frogs from thee and thy houses, that they may remain in the river only?
|Moses said, "Agreed. What time do you wish this done? I will ask God, on behalf of you, your servants and your people to get the frogs out of your homes and back into the [[Nile]] to stay."
|Moses literally says, "Vaunt yourself over me."
|-
|10
| And he said, To morrow. And he said, Be it according to thy word: that thou mayest know that there is none like unto the LORD our God.
|Pharaoh said, "Tomorrow." Moses said, "Consider it done as you just said. This should demonstrate to you that there is nothing like the LORD our [[God]]."
|
|-
|11
| And the frogs shall depart from thee, and from thy houses, and from thy servants, and from thy people; they shall remain in the river only.
|"The frogs will withdraw from you, your houses, your servants, and your people. They will stay in the Nile."
|
|-
|12
| And Moses and Aaron went out from Pharaoh: and Moses cried unto the LORD because of the frogs which he had brought against Pharaoh.
|Moses and Aaron went away from Pharaoh. Moses cried out to the LORD on the matter of the frogs that He had brought against Pharaoh.
|
|-
|13
| And the LORD did according to the word of Moses; and the frogs died out of the houses, out of the villages, and out of the fields.
|The LORD did as Moses asked: the frogs died out from the houses, the village squares, and the fields.
|
|-
|14
| And they gathered them together upon heaps: and the land stank.
|The people piled them up in homer-sized piles, and the land stank with them.
|
|-
|15
| But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
|But when Pharaoh saw that he had gained a respite, he became obstinate again, and reneged on his promise, as the LORD had said he would.
|Literally, "did not listen to them." However, the context requires a statement of the full implication of the "not listening."
|-
|16
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch out thy rod, and smite the dust of the land, that it may become lice throughout all the land of Egypt.
|The LORD said to Moses, "Now tell Aaron, 'Reach out with your rod, and strike the soil of the land. It shall become lice in all the land of Egypt."
|Now God directly attacks the earth itself, another object of worship in polytheistic Egypt.
|-
|17
| And they did so; for Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod, and smote the dust of the earth, and it became lice in man, and in beast; all the dust of the land became lice throughout all the land of Egypt.
|And that is what they did. Aaron reached out with his rod, and struck the topsoil of the land, and it became lice, and infested man and beast alike. All the topsoil in the country became lice throughout all the country of Egypt.
|
|-
|18
| And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not: so there were lice upon man, and upon beast.
|This time the sacred scribes tried to bring lice about with their occult practices--''and could not do so''. And the lice infested man and beast alike.
|
|-
|19
| Then the magicians said unto Pharaoh, This is the finger of God: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
|Now the sacred scribes said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of [[God]]." But Pharaoh remained obstinate, and would not listen to them--as the LORD had said.
|
|-
|20
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh; lo, he cometh forth to the water; and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
|Now the LORD said to Moses, "Get up early in the morning, and stand and wait for Pharaoh as he comes to the water. Tell him, 'This is what the LORD says: "Dismiss My people, so that they can worship Me!"
|
|-
|21
| Else, if thou wilt not let my people go, behold, I will send swarms of flies upon thee, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thy houses: and the houses of the Egyptians shall be full of swarms of flies, and also the ground whereon they are.
|"And if you still will not dismiss My people, then I will attack you, your servants, your people, and your houses with swarms of flies. The houses of Egypt will be filled with swarms of flies, and even the ground on which they stand.'"
|"Swarm" is rendered literally as "mixture."
|-
|22
| And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the LORD in the midst of the earth.
|"'But I will distinguish the land of [[Goshen]], where My people are standing. No swarms of flies will come there. That will show you that I am the LORD within your country!'"
|This is the first overt statement of a distinction between Goshen and the rest of Egypt.
|-
|23
| And I will put a division between my people and thy people: to morrow shall this sign be.
|"'I will place a distinction between My people and your people. This sign shall take place tomorrow.'"
|"Distinction" is literally the word for "ransom."
|-
|24
| And the LORD did so; and there came a grievous swarm of flies into the house of Pharaoh, and into his servants' houses, and into all the land of Egypt: the land was corrupted by reason of the swarm of flies.
|The LORD did this. A heavy swarm of flies came into the house of Pharaoh, and into his servants' quarters, and into the entire land of Egypt. The land was ruined from the swarm of flies.
|
|-
|25
| And Pharaoh called for Moses and for Aaron, and said, Go ye, sacrifice to your God in the land.
|Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron, and said, "Go! Sacrifice to your God in the land."
|
|-
|26
| And Moses said, It is not meet so to do; for we shall sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians to the LORD our God: lo, shall we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, and will they not stone us?
|Moses said, "That won't do! The kind of sacrifice that we'll be making to the LORD our God would be abhorrent for the Egyptians to watch. What would happen if we were to make this abhorrent sacrifice in front of the Egyptians? They'd likely stone us."
|This might indeed be correct. The Egyptians worshiped a ''lot'' of animals, including those that the Hebrews would have to sacrifice.
|-
|27
| We will go three days' journey into the wilderness, and sacrifice to the LORD our God, as he shall command us.
|"We will go three days' journey into the wilderness, and sacrifice to the LORD our God, as He tells us."
|
|-
|28
| And Pharaoh said, I will let you go, that ye may sacrifice to the LORD your God in the wilderness; only ye shall not go very far away: intreat for me.
|Now Pharaoh said, "I will dismiss you, and you may sacrifice to the LORD your God in the wilderness. But you (yourselves) will not go very far away. Entreat about me."
|
|-
|29
| And Moses said, Behold, I go out from thee, and I will intreat the LORD that the swarms of flies may depart from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from his people, to morrow: but let not Pharaoh deal deceitfully any more in not letting the people go to sacrifice to the LORD.
|Moses said, "All right. I will go out from being with you, and tomorrow I will entreat the LORD to withdraw the swarm of flies from Pharaoh, his servants, and his people. But Pharaoh must not trifle with God again and not dismiss the people to sacrifice to the LORD."
|
|-
|30
| And Moses went out from Pharaoh, and intreated the LORD.
|Moses went away from Pharaoh, and entreated to the LORD.
|
|-
|31
| And the LORD did according to the word of Moses; and he removed the swarms of flies from Pharaoh, from his servants, and from his people; there remained not one.
|And the LORD did as Moses asked: He withdrew the swarm of flies from Pharaoh, his servant, and his people. Not one fly remained.
|
|-
|32
| And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.
|But Pharaoh became obstinate yet again, and he did not dismiss the people.
|
|}

==Chapter 9==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
| Then the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh, and tell him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
|Then the [[YHWH|LORD]] said to Moses, "Go in to [[Pharaoh]], and tell him, 'The LORD [[God]] of the [[Hebrews]] says, 'Dismiss My people, so they can worship Me.'"
|Pharaoh = [[Neferhotep]]
|-
|2
| For if thou refuse to let them go, and wilt hold them still,
|"'For if you refuse to dismiss them, and continue to hold them in captivity,...'"
|
|-
|3
| Behold, the hand of the LORD is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the asses, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be a very grievous murrain.
|"'...then the hand of the LORD will strike your cattle in the fields, your horses, your donkeys, your camels, your oxen, and your sheep, with an exceedingly severe plague of murrain.'"
|''Murrain'' refers to a common disease of livestock.
|-
|4
| And the LORD shall sever between the cattle of Israel and the cattle of Egypt: and there shall nothing die of all that is the children's of Israel.
|"'But the Lord will distinguish between the cattle of Israel and the cattle of [[Egypt]], and nothing shall die which belongs to the children of Israel.'"
|
|-
|5
| And the LORD appointed a set time, saying, To morrow the LORD shall do this thing in the land.
|The LORD set a time, saying, "Tomorrow I'll do all these things."
|
|-
|6
| And the LORD did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of Egypt died: but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one.
|And the LORD did indeed do them the next day, and all the cattle of Egypt died, but not one specimen of the cattle of the children of Israel died.
|
|-
|7
| And Pharaoh sent, and, behold, there was not one of the cattle of the Israelites dead. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go.
|Pharaoh investigated and found that there was no Israelite cattle dead. This made Pharaoh furiously obstinate, and he did not dismiss the people.
|
|-
|8
| And the LORD said unto Moses and unto Aaron, Take to you handfuls of ashes of the furnace, and let Moses sprinkle it toward the heaven in the sight of Pharaoh.
|The LORD said to [[Moses]] and [[Aaron]], "Get some quicklime from a lime [[kiln]], and have Moses sprinkle it into the sky in front of the Pharaoh."
|
|-
|9
| And it shall become small dust in all the land of Egypt, and shall be a boil breaking forth with blains upon man, and upon beast, throughout all the land of Egypt.
|"It shall turn into a fine powder all over Egypt, and it will cause budding pustules all over the men and animals of Egypt."
|This breaks the pattern. Heretofore, God has done nothing without warning. But now He strikes without specific warning.
|-
|10
| And they took ashes of the furnace, and stood before Pharaoh; and Moses sprinkled it up toward heaven; and it became a boil breaking forth with blains upon man, and upon beast.
|So they took quicklime from a lime kiln, and stood before Pharaoh, and Moses threw the quicklime into the sky, and they caused budding pustules to break out on the Egyptian men and their animals.
|
|-
|11
| And the magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils; for the boil was upon the magicians, and upon all the Egyptians.
|The sacred scribes couldn't even stand in front of Moses, because they had so many boils, as did all the Egyptians.
|
|-
|12
| And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses.
|The LORD removed all prudence from Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had told Moses.
|
|-
|13
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
|The LORD said to Moses, "Rise early in the morning, and wait for Pharaoh, and tell him, 'The LORD says, 'Dismiss My people, so that they may worship Me.'"
|God returns to the warning pattern here.
|-
|14
| For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.
|For this time I will make all My strikes upon your heart, and upon your staff and upon your people, so that you will know there is nobody like Me in the world.'"
|
|-
|15
| For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.
|"'Now I will reach out and infect you and your people with disease, and you will be cut off from the Earth.'"
|
|-
|16
| And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.
|"'This is the very reason I put you into your present position, to show My power against you in this way, so that My Name shall be sounded to all the world.'"
|
|-
|17
| As yet exaltest thou thyself against my people, that thou wilt not let them go?
|"'Do you still hold yourself up in opposition of my people, by not dismissing them?'"
|
|-
|18
| Behold, to morrow about this time I will cause it to rain a very grievous hail, such as hath not been in Egypt since the foundation thereof even until now.
|"'Tomorrow, about this time, I will cause a severe hailstorm, the likes of which have never been seen in Egypt since her founding.'"
|"Since the dawn of time" wouldn't be accurate; the very worst natural disaster to date is the [[Great Flood]].
|-
|19
| Send therefore now, and gather thy cattle, and all that thou hast in the field; for upon every man and beast which shall be found in the field, and shall not be brought home, the hail shall come down upon them, and they shall die.
|"'So go now, and gather all of your cattle, and everything that you have outside in the fields, into a strong shelter. Because every man and beast which is outside when the hailstorm hits will be killed by the hail.'"
|
|-
|20
| He that feared the word of the LORD among the servants of Pharaoh made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses:
|Those among Pharaoh's staff who had respect for the LORD brought their cattle and their servants to shelter in their houses,
|
|-
|21
| And he that regarded not the word of the LORD left his servants and his cattle in the field.
|but the Egyptians who did not have respect for the LORD left their cattle and servants in the fields.
|
|-
|22
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch forth thine hand toward heaven, that there may be hail in all the land of Egypt, upon man, and upon beast, and upon every herb of the field, throughout the land of Egypt.
|The LORD said to Moses, "Raise your rod to the sky, and it will hail all over Egypt, on every man and every animal and all the crops in the fields."
|Literally, "herbage in the fields."
|-
|23
| And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven: and the LORD sent thunder and hail, and the fire ran along upon the ground; and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt.
|Moses raised his rod to the sky, and the LORD made a thunderstorm, which caused hail and lightning all over Egypt.
|The [[motion picture]] treatment of this episode is highly dubious, to say the least: it implies that the hail was on fire as it fell. This has given rise to vain speculation by secular geologists that this event was a "hail" of [[lava]] bombs from [[Mount Etna]] in [[Sicily]] or some other active [[volcano]] in the region.
|-
|24
| So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, very grievous, such as there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation.
|And so a fall of hail, and lightning in the middle of it, fell on Egypt. There had never been a storm so severe in all of Egypt's history.
|
|-
|25
| And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.
|All throughout Egypt, the hail killed every man and animal in the fields, and all the crops were destroyed, and the branches of all the trees were broken.
|
|-
|26
| Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.
|But in the land of [[Goshen]], where the children of [[Israel]] lived, there was no hail.
|This region is today called [[Avaris]].
|-
|27
| And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the LORD is righteous, and I and my people are wicked.
|So Pharaoh called Moses and Aaron to him, and said, "I was wrong: the LORD is just, and my people and I were wrong to enslave you."
|
|-
|28
| Intreat the LORD (for it is enough) that there be no more mighty thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer.
|"Ask the LORD to stop the storm, and I will dismiss you, and you will not even have to stay any longer."
|
|-
|29
| And Moses said unto him, As soon as I am gone out of the city, I will spread abroad my hands unto the LORD; and the thunder shall cease, neither shall there be any more hail; that thou mayest know how that the earth is the LORD's.
|Moses said to him, "As soon as I leave the city, I'll raise my hands to the LORD, and the storm will stop. And you will see that the Earth belongs to the LORD."
|
|-
|30
| But as for thee and thy servants, I know that ye will not yet fear the LORD God.
|But you cannot deceive me into believing that you or your staff will respect the LORD."
|
|-
|31
| And the flax and the barley was smitten: for the barley was in the ear, and the flax was bolled.
| And the flax and the barley were destroyed because the barley was pollinated and the flax was in pod.
|This is a key chronological point: this took place on or near the new [[moon]] that marked the month of [[Abib]], which means "[[pollinated]]." Today the month is called [[Nisan]].
|-
|32
| But the wheat and the rie were not smitten: for they were not grown up.
| But the wheat and the spelt were not destroyed because they were still not ripe.
|The month of the wheat harvest is called [[Sivan]] even today.
|-
|33
| And Moses went out of the city from Pharaoh, and spread abroad his hands unto the LORD: and the thunders and hail ceased, and the rain was not poured upon the earth.
|Moses left the city, and raised his hands to the LORD, and the thunderstorm, the hail, and the rain all ceased.
|
|-
|34
| And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants.
|But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had ceased, he added to his [[Sin (Fundamentalism)|sin]], and he and his staff all turned obstinate.
|
|-
|35
| And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the LORD had spoken by Moses.
|Pharaoh was stubborn, and would not dismiss the children of Israel, as the LORD had told Moses.
|
|}

==Chapter 10==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:
|The [[YHWH|LORD]] said to [[Moses]], "Go in to see [[Pharaoh]]. I have made him obstinate, he and his staff both, so that I might set My signs in front of him,..."
|Pharaoh = [[Neferhotep]]
|-
|2
| And that thou mayest tell in the ears of thy son, and of thy son's son, what things I have wrought in Egypt, and my signs which I have done among them; that ye may know how that I am the LORD.
|"...and so that you, too, can tell your son, and your son's son, the things I did in [[Egypt]], and my signs that I gave among them, so that you may know that I am the LORD."
|
|-
|3
| And Moses and Aaron came in unto Pharaoh, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, How long wilt thou refuse to humble thyself before me? let my people go, that they may serve me.
|Moses and [[Aaron]] came in to see Pharaoh, and told him, "The LORD [[God]] of the [[Hebrews]] asks: 'How much longer are you going to refuse to humble yourself before Me? Dismiss My people, so that they may worship Me.'"
|
|-
|4
| Else, if thou refuse to let my people go, behold, to morrow will I bring the locusts into thy coast:
|"'If you refuse to dismiss My people, then watch this! Tomorrow I will bring [[locust]]s to your border.'"
|
|-
|5
| And they shall cover the face of the earth, that one cannot be able to see the earth: and they shall eat the residue of that which is escaped, which remaineth unto you from the hail, and shall eat every tree which groweth for you out of the field:
|"'They will cover the face of the land, and no one will be able even to see the ground. They will eat everything that's left, that the hail did not destroy, and will eat every seedling that sprouts in the field.'"
|
|-
|6
| And they shall fill thy houses, and the houses of all thy servants, and the houses of all the Egyptians; which neither thy fathers, nor thy fathers' fathers have seen, since the day that they were upon the earth unto this day. And he turned himself, and went out from Pharaoh.
|"'They will fill your houses, and all your servants' quarters, and the homes of all the Egyptians, in a way that neither your fathers, nor your fathers' fathers have ever seen, from the day they walked this ground until today.'" And he turned his face around and walked away from Pharaoh.
|
|-
|7
| And Pharaoh's servants said unto him, How long shall this man be a snare unto us? let the men go, that they may serve the LORD their God: knowest thou not yet that Egypt is destroyed?
|Pharaoh's staff said to him, "How long will this man be a trap for us? Dismiss those people, so that they may serve the LORD their [[God]]. Don't you know yet that Egypt is about to be destroyed?"
|
|-
|8
| And Moses and Aaron were brought again unto Pharaoh: and he said unto them, Go, serve the LORD your God: but who are they that shall go?
|Moses and Aaron were brought before Pharaoh again. He said to them, "Go and worship the LORD your God. But who are the ones that will go?"
|
|-
|9
| And Moses said, We will go with our young and with our old, with our sons and with our daughters, with our flocks and with our herds will we go; for we must hold a feast unto the LORD.
|Moses said, "We will go with our young people and old people, with our sons and daughters, with our flocks and herds, so that we can hold a proper celebration for the LORD."
|
|-
|10
| And he said unto them, Let the LORD be so with you, as I will let you go, and your little ones: look to it; for evil is before you.
|Pharaoh now said, "Let the LORD act thus toward you, if I dismiss you and your little children. Look: there is evil in front of you."
|
|-
|11
| Not so: go now ye that are men, and serve the LORD; for that ye did desire. And they were driven out from Pharaoh's presence.
|"Oh, no! You men may go and serve the LORD. That's what you wanted, wasn't it?" And he drove them away from his presence.
|
|-
|12
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the land of Egypt for the locusts, that they may come up upon the land of Egypt, and eat every herb of the land, even all that the hail hath left.
|Now the LORD said to Moses, "Reach out over the land of [[Egypt]] for the locusts, so that they may ascend over the land of Egypt and devour all the crops in the land, everything that the hail did not destroy."
|
|-
|13
| And Moses stretched forth his rod over the land of Egypt, and the LORD brought an east wind upon the land all that day, and all that night; and when it was morning, the east wind brought the locusts.
|Moses reached out with his rod over the land of Egypt, and the LORD brought an east win on the land for a day and a night. And when the morning came, the east wind brought in the locusts.
|
|-
|14
| And the locusts went up over all the land of Egypt, and rested in all the coasts of Egypt: very grievous were they; before them there were no such locusts as they, neither after them shall be such.
|The locusts ascended over all the land of Egypt, and remained within all the borders of Egypt. This was an exceedingly heavy swarm; such locusts had never been seen before, and would never be seen again.
|
|-
|15
| For they covered the face of the whole earth, so that the land was darkened; and they did eat every herb of the land, and all the fruit of the trees which the hail had left: and there remained not any green thing in the trees, or in the herbs of the field, through all the land of Egypt.
|They covered the face of all the land, and the land was made dark. They devoured every plant in the land, and all the fruit of the trees that the hail had left. Not one green thing remained in the trees, or in the crops of the field, throughout the entire country of Egypt.
|
|-
|16
| Then Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron in haste; and he said, I have sinned against the LORD your God, and against you.
|Pharaoh hurriedly called for Moses and Aaron. He said, "I have [[Sin (Fundamentalism)|sinned]] against the LORD your God, and against you."
|
|-
|17
| Now therefore forgive, I pray thee, my sin only this once, and intreat the LORD your God, that he may take away from me this death only.
|"So now please forgive my sin just this once, and entreat the LORD your God. All I ask is that he take away this death."
|
|-
|18
| And he went out from Pharaoh, and intreated the LORD.
|So Moses went out from Pharaoh, and entreated the LORD.
|
|-
|19
| And the LORD turned a mighty strong west wind, which took away the locusts, and cast them into the Red sea; there remained not one locust in all the coasts of Egypt.
|Now the LORD turned a very strong sea wind, that carried off the locusts and blew them into the Red Sea. Not one locust remained within all the boundaries of Egypt.
|Literally, "sea of weeds" or "see of reeds."
|-
|20
| But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.
|But the LORD made Pharaoh obstinate, so that he would not dismiss the children of Israel.
|
|-
|21
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
|The LORD said to Moses, "Reach out toward the sky, so that darkness may come over the land of Egypt, a darkness that will force men to grope."
|
|-
|22
| And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
|Moses reached out with his hand toward the sky, and a gloomy darkness fell in all the land of Egypt for three days.
|
|-
|23
| They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.
|Men could not see one another, and they did not get out of bed for three days. But all the children of Israel had light in their dwelling places.
|
|-
|24
| And Pharaoh called unto Moses, and said, Go ye, serve the LORD; only let your flocks and your herds be stayed: let your little ones also go with you.
|Pharaoh called to Moses, and said, "Go! Worship the LORD, but have your flocks and your herds stay put. Your little children can also go with you."
|
|-
|25
| And Moses said, Thou must give us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the LORD our God.
|Moses said, "You must also give us animals for the sacrifices and ascent offerings that we must make to the LORD our God."
|
|-
|26
| Our cattle also shall go with us; there shall not an hoof be left behind; for thereof must we take to serve the LORD our God; and we know not with what we must serve the LORD, until we come thither.
|"Our cattle will also go with us; not one hoof will remain--because we have to take some of them in order to serve the LORD our God, and we cannot know what animals to sacrifice to the LORD until we arrive."
|
|-
|27
| But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let them go.
|The LORD made Pharaoh obstinate, and he would not dismiss them.
|
|-
|28
| And Pharaoh said unto him, Get thee from me, take heed to thyself, see my face no more; for in that day thou seest my face thou shalt die.
|Pharaoh told him, "Get away from me. I warn you: make sure you do not come into my presence again. In the day that you come into my presence, you will die."
|
|-
|29
| And Moses said, Thou hast spoken well, I will see thy face again no more.
|Moses said, "You have spoken the truth: I will never come into your presence again."
|
|}

==Chapter 11==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Yet will I bring one plague more upon Pharaoh, and upon Egypt; afterwards he will let you go hence: when he shall let you go, he shall surely thrust you out hence altogether.
|The [[YHWH|LORD]] had previously told [[Moses]], "I will bring one more plague on [[Pharaoh]] and on [[Egypt]]. After that, he will dismiss you, and in fact he'll not only dismiss you, he'll drive you out as far as he can."
|The [[Hebrew]] repeats the concept of "driving out" for emphasis. The particular Pharaoh is [[Neferhotep]].
|-
|2
| Speak now in the ears of the people, and let every man borrow of his neighbour, and every woman of her neighbour, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold.
|"Now make sure that the people understand this: each man is to borrow from his neighbor, and each woman from her neighbor, articles of [[silver]] and of [[gold]]."
|
|-
|3
| And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the sight of Pharaoh's servants, and in the sight of the people.
|The LORD had given the people a good impression in the eyes of the Egyptians. In fact, Moses as a man was very much a celebrity in the land of Egypt, and respected by Pharaoh's staff and by the people.
|
|-
|4
| And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt:
|Now Moses said [to Pharaoh, continuing], "The LORD says this: 'At midnight I go out in the midst of Egypt.'"
|
|-
|5
| And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.
|"'Every firstborn individual in the land of Egypt will die, from the firstborn of [[Pharaoh]], sitting on his throne, down to the firstborn of the maidservant behind the millstones, and every firstborn of beasts.'"
|
|-
|6
| And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.
|"'There will be a great outcry in all the land of Egypt, the like of which has never been heard before, and will not be heard again.'"
|
|-
|7
| But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.
|"'But against any of the children of Israel, not so much as a [[dog]] will point his tongue, not against man nor beast, so that you will know that the LORD distinguishes between Egypt and Israel.'"
|
|-
|8
| And all these thy servants shall come down unto me, and bow down themselves unto me, saying, Get thee out, and all the people that follow thee: and after that I will go out. And he went out from Pharaoh in a great anger.
|"Your entire staff will come down to me, and bow themselves down to me. They will say, 'Get out, you and all the people who follow you.' After that, I will go out." And Moses walked away from Pharaoh in the heat of anger.
|
|-
|9
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you; that my wonders may be multiplied in the land of Egypt.
|The LORD told Moses, "Pharaoh will not listen to you, so that my miracles will be increased in the land of Egypt."
|
|-
|10
| And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.
|Moses and [[Aaron]] had done all these miracles in front of Pharaoh, but the LORD made Pharaoh obstinate, so that he would not dismiss the children of Israel from his land.
|
|}

==Chapter 12==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
| And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
|The [[YHWH|LORD]] spoke to [[Moses]] and [[Aaron]] in the land of [[Egypt]]. He said:
|
|-
|2
| This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
|"This month will be for you the beginning of months, the first of all the months of the year."
|The month is [[Abib]], or the modern [[Nisan]], or "barley harvest." Most Jewish/Hebrew calendars in the modern day begin with [[Tishrei]], the seventh month, since that is when the Jewish "New Year" of [[Rosh Hashanah]] falls. Confusingly, Rosh Hashanah is one of several "Jewish New Years", each in a different context. Rosh Hashanah was considered the First Day of Creation (or by other interpretations, the day Man was created). By contrast, the first day of Nisan in Biblical times would be the equivalent of January 1st in America today.
|-
|3
| Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
|"Now speak to the entire congregation of [[Israel]], and tell them this: 'In the tenth day of this month, each man is to take a lamb for the house of their fathers, one lamb per household.'"
|
|-
|4
| And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
|"'If the household has too few members for one lamb, then let the householder and his nearest neighbor take it, according to the count of household members; every man, according to his food budget, is to make an assessment for a lamb.'"
|
|-
|5
| Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
|"'The lamb will be a flawless male yearling; it can be either an actual lamb or a goat kid.'"
|
|-
|6
| And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
|"'You will take it in charge until the fourteenth day of this month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel will kill it between evenings.'"
|
|-
|7
| And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
|"'They must take some of the blood, and paint it onto the two jambs and the lintel of the houses that they eat the lamb in."
|The "jamb" is the upright or side member; the "lintel" is the cross member of the doorway.
|-
|8
| And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
|"'They must eat the flesh in one night, roasted by fire, and served with [[matzoh]] and bitter herbs.'"
|''Matzoh'' is bread made without yeast, the "bread of haste."
|-
|9
| Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
|"'You must not eat any of it either underdone or cooked with water; it must be roasted with fire, the head with the shanks and the inner parts.'"
|
|-
|10
| And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
|"'Do not reserve any of it for the morning. Anything left over until morning you must burn thoroughly.'"
|Literally, "burn with fire," another Hebrew idiomatic emphatic repetition.
|-
|11
| And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.
|"'You must eat it with this attitude: with your waist girded, your sandals on your feet, and your walking stick in hand. You must eat it in haste. This is the LORD's [[Passover]].'"
|Literally, "nervous haste," and ''Pesach'', from which comes the word "Paschal."
|-
|12
| For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
|"'Because I am going to pass through the land of Egypt tonight, and will strike down every firstborn individual in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. I will execute judgment against all the "gods" of Egypt. I am the LORD.'"
|
|-
|13
| And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
|"'The blood will be a recognition sign for you on the houses where you are. When I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the stroke will not fall on you to kill you, when I strike the land of Egypt.'"
|
|-
|14
| And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
|"'You will keep this day as a memorial, and you will make this a lasting celebration to the LORD throughout your generations. You will celebrate this by statute forever.'"
|Literally, "in eon," or "into the ages," as the Greeks would also say.
|-
|15
| Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
|"'For seven days you will eat ''matzoh''. In fact, on the first day you will eradicate any yeast from your houses. Whoever eats any leavened bread, from the first day to the seventh, that person will be cut off from Israel.'"
|
|-
|16
| And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
|"'In the first day there will be a meeting of holiness, and in the seventh day another meeting of holiness. No form of work shall be done in those meeting days, except the work of eating itself, since every man must eat.'"
|
|-
|17
| And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
|"'You will observe this feast of unleavened bread. On this very day I brought all your armies out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you will observe this day for generations by statute forever.'"
|
|-
|18
| In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
|"'In the first month, on the fourteenth day, in the evening, you will eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day in the evening.'"
|
|-
|19
| Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.
|"'For those seven days no yeast is to be found in your houses. Anyone who easts anything with yeast in it, that person will be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is a foreigner or a native of the land.'"
|
|-
|20
| Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.
|"'You will eat nothing leavened. In all your dwelling places you will eat unleavened bread.'"
|
|-
|21
| Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
|Now Moses called for all the elders of Israel. He told them, "Draw out and select a lamb for your families, and slay the Passover."
|
|-
|22
| And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
|"Take a bunch of [[hyssop]], and dip it into the blood in the basin, and touch the lintel and the two jambs with the blood in the basin. And none of you is to go out through the portal of his house until morning."
|
|-
|23
| For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
|"The LORD is going to pass through to strike the Egyptians. When He sees the blood on the lintel and the two jambs, the LORD will pass over the portal, and will not allow the Destroyer to come into your houses to strike you."
|The "Destroyer" is a ''very'' special Messenger or [[angel]].
|-
|24
| And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
|"You are to observe this word by statute for you and your sons forever."
|
|-
|25
| And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
|"And it will happen that when you enter the land that the LORD is giving to you, the land that He spoke about, you will observe this service."
|
|-
|26
| And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
|"And when your children happen to ask you, 'What does this service mean to you?...'"
|
|-
|27
| That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.
|"...you are to tell them, 'This is the passover sacrifice of the LORD, Who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when He struck the Egyptians, and rescued our households.'" The people bowed their heads and bowed themselves down.
|
|-
|28
| And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
|The children of Israel went away, and did everything that the LORD had instructed Moses and Aaron to tell them.
|
|-
|29
| And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
|And this is what happened: at midnight the LORD struck every firstborn individual in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of the regnant Pharaoh to the firstborn of the lowliest prisoner in the House of the Pit, and every firstborn beast.
|"The Pit" or "The Hole" is the most common name that any inmate has ever given his prison.
|-
|30
| And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
|Pharaoh got up in the middle of the night, both he and everyone on his staff, and all the Egyptians. A great outcry rang out in Egypt, because there was not a household to be found that did not have a dead person in it.
|Some have vainly speculated that the firstborn, lying as they did on beds spread on the floor, were subject to acute [[carbon dioxide]] poisoning from a volcanic vent. This explanation, of course, begs the question of why blood painted on jamb and lintel should neutralize carbon dioxide in this manner.
|-
|31
| And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the LORD, as ye have said.
|He called Moses and Aaron during the night, saying, "Get up, and get out from among my people, you and the children of Israel, and go and serve the LORD, as you said!"
|
|-
|32
| Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.
|"And take your flocks and your herds, as you said, and go! But bless me, too."
|
|-
|33
| And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.
|The Egyptians in fact insisted on dismissing the people from the land in haste, and they all said, "We are all dying men."
|
|-
|34
| And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders.
|The people carried their dough before it was leavened, because their kneading troughs were bundled up in their clothes on their shoulders.
|
|-
|35
| And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:
|The children of Israel did everything that Moses had told them to do: they borrowed articles of silver and gold, and clothing, from the Egyptians.
|
|-
|36
| And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.
|The LORD gave the people a good impression in the eyes of the Egyptians, so that they lent them everything they asked. Thus they despoiled the Egyptians.
|Later, the reader will see what became of all this silver, gold, and cloth.
|-
|37
| And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
|The children of Israel traveled from Rameses to Succoth. They numbered six hundred thousand infantrymen, together with children.
|
|-
|38
| And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
|Furthermore, a mixed crowd went up with them, with flocks and herds, an exceedingly great herd of cattle.
|
|-
|39
| And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual.
|They baked ember cakes with the dough that they were bringing out of Egypt, because it had not been leavened. They were practically thrown out of Egypt, and were not allowed to dally, and had not even prepared any victuals for themselves.
|
|-
|40
| Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
|The span of the sojourning of the children of Israel, who had lived in Egypt, was 430 years.
|See Galatians 3:17.
|-
|41
| And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.
|And it happened that at the end of the 430 years, on the very day that it came to pass, all the armies of the LORD went out of the land of Egypt.
|
|-
|42
| It is a night to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the LORD to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations.
|This is a night of observance to the LORD for bringing them out of the land of Egypt: this was the night of the LORD for observances for all the children of Israel for all their generations.
|
|-
|43
| And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
|The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "This is the statute of the Passover: no foreigner is to eat any of it."
|
|-
|44
| But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
|"But if any man among you buys a slave for silver, and has him circumcised, he, too, will eat some of it."
|
|-
|45
| A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.
|"A foreigner or a hired hand is not to eat of it."
|
|-
|46
| In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.
|"It is to be eaten in one house. You are not to bring any of the flesh out of the house, or break any of its bones."
|
|-
|47
| All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.
|"The whole congregation of Israel is to do this."
|
|-
|48
| And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
|"When any stranger sojourns with you, if he wants to keep the passover of the LORD, then every male in his household must be circumcised. Then he can draw near and keep it, and he will be regarded as a native. No uncircumcised person will eat any of it."
|
|-
|49
| One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
|"One law will be for the native, and another to the stranger sojourning in your midst."
|
|-
|50
| Thus did all the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
|All the children of Israel were doing as the LORD had instructed Moses and Aaron.
|
|-
|51
| And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.
|And it happened, on that very day, that the LORD brought the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt, with their armies.
|
|}

==Chapter 13==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
| And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
|The [[YHWH|LORD]] said to [[Moses]],
|
|-
|2
| Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
|"Set all your firstborn apart to Me, every one who opens up the womb among the children of [[Israel]], of man and beast: it belongs to Me."
|
|-
|3
| And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.
|Moses said to the people, "Remember this day, in which you came out of [[Egypt]], from the house of slavery. By strength of hand the LORD brought you out of this place. There will be no leavened bread eaten."
|
|-
|4
| This day came ye out in the month Abib.
|"You came out on this day, in the month of [[Abib]].
|The modern [[Nisan]].
|-
|5
| And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee, a land flowing with milk and honey, that thou shalt keep this service in this month.
|"And when the LORD brings you into the land of the [[Canaan (land)|Canaanites]], and the [[Hittites]], and the [[Amorites]], and the [[Hivites]], and the [[Jebusites]], that he swore to your fathers that he would give you, a land gushing with milk and honey, you will observe this service in this month."
|
|-
|6
| Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD.
|"For seven days you will eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day you will hold a celebration to the LORD."
|
|-
|7
| Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters.
|"Unleavened bread will be eaten for seven days, and no leavened bread will be seen with you, and no yeast will be seen with you in all your boundaries."
|
|-
|8
| And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt.
|"You will tell your son in that day: 'This is done for the sake of what the LORD did for me when I came out of Egypt.'"
|
|-
|9
| And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.
|"This will exist for a sign to you by your hand, and as a memorial between your eyes, so that the law of the LORD will be in your mouth, because with a steadfast hand the LORD brought you out of Egypt."
|
|-
|10
| Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.
|"So you will observe this statute in its appointed time from year to year."
|
|-
|11
| And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, as he sware unto thee and to thy fathers, and shall give it thee,
|"And it will happen when the LORD brings you into the land of the Canaanites, as He swore to you and to your fathers, and gives it to you,..."
|
|-
|12
| That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD's.
|"...you will set apart for the LORD everything that opens up the womb, and every firstborn that comes from a beast that you own; the males will belong to the LORD."
|
|-
|13
| And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.
|"Every firstling of a donkey you will ransom with a lamb, and if you don't ransom it, then you must break its neck. You will also ransom the firstborn of man among your children."
|
|-
|14
| And it shall be when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What is this? that thou shalt say unto him, By strength of hand the LORD brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage:
|"And it will happen that when your son asks you in future, 'What is this?' you will tell him, 'By a steadfast hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, from the house of slavery....'"
|
|-
|15
| And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.
|"'And it happened that when [[Pharaoh]] was obstinate against dismissing us, the LORD killed every firstborn individual in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man and the firstborn of beast. So I am sacrificing to the LORD every male thing that opens up the womb, but I will ransom the firstborn among my children.'"
|
|-
|16
| And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.
|"'This will be for a token on your hand, and for brow bands between your eyes, that in steadfastness of hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt.'"
|The [[Pharisees]] took this literally, and so the custom of the phylacteries and the ''mezuzah'' symbol continues to this day among the [[Judaism|Jews]].
|-
|17
| And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:
|Now it happened that after [[Pharaoh]] had dismissed the people, [[God]] did not guide them by the road to [[Philistines|Philistine]] country. God had said to Himself, "I would not want the people to have regrets at their first sight of war, and go back to Egypt."
|That is, [[Neferhotep]]
|-
|18
| But God led the people about, through the way of the wilderness of the Red sea: and the children of Israel went up harnessed out of the land of Egypt.
|So God caused the people to turn about, and go by way of the wilderness to the [[Red Sea]]. The children of Israel went up in ranks of five out of the land of Egypt.
|
|-
|19
| And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.
|Moses took the bones of [[Joseph]] with him, because Joseph had made the people swear a strict oath, saying, "God will certainly notice you, and you will carry my bones away from here with you."
|
|-
|20
| And they took their journey from Succoth, and encamped in Etham, in the edge of the wilderness.
|So they journeyed from Succoth, and encamped in Etham on the border of the wilderness.
|
|-
|21
| And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:
|The LORD also went before them by day in a column of cloud, to guide them by the way, and by night in a column of fire, to give them light. And thus He guided them both day and night.
|
|-
|22
| He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.
|He did not remove the column of cloud by day, or the column of fire by night, from in front of the people.
|
|}

==Chapter 14==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
| And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
|The [[YHWH|LORD]] said to [[Moses]],
|
|-
|2
| Speak unto the children of Israel, that they turn and encamp before Pi-hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea, over against Baal-zephon: before it shall ye encamp by the sea.
|"Speak to the children of [[Israel]], and have them return and encamp in front of Pi-hahiroth between Midgol and the sea, in front of Baal-zephon. You will encamp on the seashore opposite it."
|
|-
|3
| For Pharaoh will say of the children of Israel, They are entangled in the land, the wilderness hath shut them in.
|"[[Pharaoh]] will say of the children of Israel, 'They don't know where they're going in the land, and the wilderness has closed in on them.'"
|That is, [[Neferhotep]]
|-
|4
| And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD. And they did so.
|"I am going to make Pharaoh obstinate, and he will pursue after them. I will then be glorified at the expense of Pharaoh, and the expense of his entire army, because I want the [[Egypt]]ians to know that I am the LORD." And they did so.
|
|-
|5
| And it was told the king of Egypt that the people fled: and the heart of Pharaoh and of his servants was turned against the people, and they said, Why have we done this, that we have let Israel go from serving us?
|The king of Egypt was told that the people had run away. The hearts of Pharaoh and his staff were turned against the people. They said to one another, "Why did we do this, and dismiss Israel from our service?"
|
|-
|6
| And he made ready his chariot, and took his people with him:
|The king had his [[chariot]] hitched up, and took his people with him.
|
|-
|7
| And he took six hundred chosen chariots, and all the chariots of Egypt, and captains over every one of them.
|He took six hundred elite charioteers, and all the charioteers of Egypt, and squad leaders over every one of them.
|Literally, "third-fighters," implying that the chariot corps moved in squadrons of threes.
|-
|8
| And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.
|The LORD made Pharaoh the king of Egypt obstinate, and he pursued after the children of Israel. The children of Israel were going out with hands held high,
|
|-
|9
| But the Egyptians pursued after them, all the horses and chariots of Pharaoh, and his horsemen, and his army, and overtook them encamping by the sea, beside Pi-hahiroth, before Baal-zephon.
|but the Egyptians were pursuing after them, and overtook them as they encamped on the sea, all the horses and chariots of Pharaoh, and his horsemen, on Pi-hahiroth in front of Baal-zephron.
|
|-
|10
| And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lifted up their eyes, and, behold, the Egyptians marched after them; and they were sore afraid| and the children of Israel cried out unto the LORD.
|When Pharaoh drew near, the children of Israel looked up, and with a shock saw the Egyptians marching after them. They were exceedingly fearful, and the children of Israel cried out to the LORD.
|
|-
|11
| And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt?
|They were saying to Moses, "Was it from lack of tombs in Egypt that you took us away to die in the wilderness? Why have you done this to us, to bring us out of Egypt?"
|
|-
|12
| Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness.
|"Didn't we keep telling you in Egypt, 'Leave us alone, and let us serve the Egyptians'? Better for us to be slaves to the Egyptians than to die in the wilderness!"
|
|-
|13
| And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.
|Moses said to the people, "You must not be afraid! Make your stand, and see the salvation of the LORD, that he will do for you today. The Egyptians that you see this day, you will never see again!"
|
|-
|14
| The LORD shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.
|"The LORD will fight for you, if you will but be silent!"
|
|-
|15
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward:
|The LORD was saying to Moses, "Why are you drying to Me? Tell the children of Israel to go forward!"
|
|-
|16
| But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.
|"Raise your rod high and reach out over the sea, and split it. The children of Israel will enter into the middle of the sea on dry ground."
|
|-
|17
| And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.
|"And I--look at Me--I will make the Egyptians obstinate, and they will follow them. Thus I will gain glory at the expense of Pharaoh, and at the expense of all his army, and his chariots, and his horsemen."
|
|-
|18
| And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I have gotten me honour upon Pharaoh, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.
|"Those Egyptians will realize that I am the LORD, when I have gained My glory at the expense of Pharaoh, his chariots, and his horsemen."
|
|-
|19
| And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:
|The Messenger of [[God]], who was journeying in front of the camp of Israel, moved away and went behind them, and the column of cloud went up from in front of them and took station behind them.
|
|-
|20
| And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night.
|It came between the camp of Egypt and the camp of Israel, and it became a cloud of darkness to them, but gave light by night to them, so that neither army could approach the other all night long.
|
|-
|21
| And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.
|Moses reached out over the sea, and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and placed a drained area in the sea, and the waters were split.
|
|-
|22
| And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.
|The children of Israel were entering into the midst of the sea, on dry ground, and the waters formed a wall to their right and to their left.
|
|-
|23
| And the Egyptians pursued, and went in after them to the midst of the sea, even all Pharaoh's horses, his chariots, and his horsemen.
|The Egyptians pursued them, every one of Pharaoh's horses and chariots and horsemen entered after them in the middle of the sea.
|
|-
|24
| And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,
|And in the morning's first watch the LORD gazed at the camp of the Egyptians through the column of fire and cloud, and discomfited the camp of the Egyptians,
|
|-
|25
| And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the LORD fighteth for them against the Egyptians.
|and clogged their chariot wheels, and made them drive them with great difficulty. The Egyptians said, "We should flee from before Israel; the LORD is fighting for them against Egypt!"
|
|-
|26
| And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians, upon their chariots, and upon their horsemen.
|Now the LORD said to Moses, "Reach out over the sea, and the waters will return on the Egyptians, on their chariots and horsemen."
|
|-
|27
| And Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to his strength when the morning appeared; and the Egyptians fled against it; and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.
|Moses reached out over the sea, and the sea returned to its place when the dawn came, and the Egyptians fled away from it, and the LORD shook off the Egyptians in the middle of the sea.
|
|-
|28
| And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.
|The waters came rushing back, and covered the chariots and horsemen and the entire army of Pharaoh that had entered after them into the sea. Not one of them remained alive.
|
|-
|29
| But the children of Israel walked upon dry land in the midst of the sea; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.
|But the children of Israel walked on dry ground in the middle of the sea, and the waters formed a wall to their right and left.
|
|-
|30
| Thus the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians; and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore.
|This is how the LORD saved Israel from the hand of Egypt. The Israelites saw the Egyptians lying dead on the seashore.
|
|-
|31
| And Israel saw that great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians: and the people feared the LORD, and believed the LORD, and his servant Moses.
|Israel saw the great hand of the LORD upon the Egyptians. Now the people feared the LORD, and believed in the LORD, and His servant, Moses.
|
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Exodus 34-40 (Translated)

2013-02-23T14:13:23Z

Onestone: I don't think 'mask idol' is the best choice.

==Chapter 34==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
|The LORD said to Moses: make two stone tablets like the previous ones; I will write on the tablets the things that were on the the first tablets that you broke.
|
|-
|2
|And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
|Be prepared for the morning, and go in the morning to mount Sinai, and on top of it you will show yourself to me.
|
|-
|3
|And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
|No one is to come with you, and no one should be seen next to the mountain, and the herds and the cattle should also not come close to the mountain.
|
|-
|4
|And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
|He made two stone tablets like the previous ones, and in the morning Moses woke up and went to mount Sinai as the LORD told him to, and he carried in his hands the two stone tablets.
|
|-
|5
|And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
|And the LORD came down in a cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
|
|-
|6
|And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
|And the LORD passed in front of his face and said: The LORD, The LORD, merciful and compassionate, patient, and full of grace and truth,
|
|-
|7
|Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
|Keeping the grace for thousands, who forgives wrong deeds and crime and sin, who will punish the guilty, who will make the sons and the sons of the sons, the third and fourth generations, pay for the sins of their fathers.
|
|-
|8
|And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
|And Moses quickly bowed down and worshiped.
|
|-
|9
|And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
|And he said, if I am liked by you, my LORD, walk among us, because the people are ungrateful, and forgive our sins and misdeeds, and make us your property.
|
|-
|10
|And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.
|And God said I will make a covenant with all of your nation and I will do wonders which have not been done before in any place or nation and all the people of whom you are a part of shall see the acts of the LORD, for the deed I am doing with you is tremendous.
|
|-
|11
|Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
|Obey what I command you today. I will banish the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite.
|
|-
|12
|Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
|Be careful not to ally with those sitting in the land you are about to come to, so they will not be an obstacle to you.
|
|-
|13
|But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
|For you will destroy their altars, break their sacred stones, and remove their idols.
|
|-
|14
|For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
|This is because you are not supposed to worship any other god, because the name of the LORD is jealous and he is a jealous God.
|
|-
|15
|Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods , and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
|This is meant to prevent you from allying with those sitting in the land, who will whore after their gods and will sacrifice to their gods, and one will call you and you will eat his sacrifice.
|
|-
|16
|And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
|You will take their daughters for your sons, and their daughters will whore after their gods and they will whore your sons to their gods.
|
|-
|17
|Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
|You will not make for yourself a molten idol.
|
|-
|18
|The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
|You will celebrate the holiday of the unleavened bread for seven days in which you will eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, during the month of the spring. This is because during the month of the spring you came out of Egypt.
|
|-
|19
|All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
|
|
|-
|20
|But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
|
|
|-
|21
|Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
|
|
|-
|22
|And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
|
|
|-
|23
|Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.
|
|
|-
|24
|For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
|
|
|-
|25
|Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
|
|
|-
|26
|The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
|
|
|-
|27
|And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
|
|
|-
|29
|And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
|
|There is considerable debate over the translation of "shone" in this passage, as well as the next (34:30). The original Hebrew may have meant "horned."[http://galusaustralis.com/2009/09/1608/horny-jew-whats-the-deal-with-michelangelos-moses/]
|-
|30
|And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
|
|
|-
|31
|And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
|
|
|-
|32
|And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
|
|
|-
|33
|And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
|
|
|-
|34
|But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
|
|
|-
|35
|And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 35==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them.
|
|
|-
|2
|Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
|
|
|-
|3
|Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
|
|
|-
|4
|And Moses spake unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD commanded, saying,
|
|
|-
|5
|Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,
|
|
|-
|6
|And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,
|
|
|-
|7
|And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
|
|
|-
|8
|And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,
|
|
|-
|9
|And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|10
|And every wise hearted among you shall come, and make all that the LORD hath commanded;
|
|
|-
|11
|The tabernacle, his tent, and his covering, his taches, and his boards, his bars, his pillars, and his sockets,
|
|
|-
|12
|The ark, and the staves thereof, with the mercy seat, and the vail of the covering,
|
|
|-
|13
|The table, and his staves, and all his vessels, and the shewbread,
|
|
|-
|14
|The candlestick also for the light, and his furniture, and his lamps, with the oil for the light,
|
|
|-
|15
|And the incense altar, and his staves, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the door at the entering in of the tabernacle,
|
|
|-
|16
|The altar of burnt offering, with his brasen grate, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,
|
|
|-
|17
|The hangings of the court, his pillars, and their sockets, and the hanging for the door of the court,
|
|
|-
|18
|The pins of the tabernacle, and the pins of the court, and their cords,
|
|
|-
|19
|The cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|20
|And all the congregation of the children of Israel departed from the presence of Moses.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.
|
|
|-
|22
|And they came, both men and women, as many as were willing hearted, and brought bracelets, and earrings, and rings, and tablets, all jewels of gold: and every man that offered offered an offering of gold unto the LORD.
|
|
|-
|23
|And every man, with whom was found blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, and red skins of rams, and badgers' skins, brought them.
|
|
|-
|24
|Every one that did offer an offering of silver and brass brought the LORD's offering: and every man, with whom was found shittim wood for any work of the service, brought it.
|
|
|-
|25
|And all the women that were wise hearted did spin with their hands, and brought that which they had spun, both of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine linen.
|
|
|-
|26
|And all the women whose heart stirred them up in wisdom spun goats' hair.
|
|
|-
|27
|And the rulers brought onyx stones, and stones to be set, for the ephod, and for the breastplate;
|
|
|-
|28
|And spice, and oil for the light, and for the anointing oil, and for the sweet incense.
|
|
|-
|29
|The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the LORD, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the LORD had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
|
|
|-
|31
|And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
|
|
|-
|32
|And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
|
|
|-
|33
|And in the cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, both he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan.
|
|
|-
|35
|Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 36==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then wrought Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whom the LORD put wisdom and understanding to know how to work all manner of work for the service of the sanctuary, according to all that the LORD had commanded.
|
|
|-
|2
|And Moses called Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whose heart the LORD had put wisdom, even every one whose heart stirred him up to come unto the work to do it:
|
|
|-
|3
|And they received of Moses all the offering, which the children of Israel had brought for the work of the service of the sanctuary, to make it withal. And they brought yet unto him free offerings every morning.
|
|
|-
|4
|And all the wise men, that wrought all the work of the sanctuary, came every man from his work which they made;
|
|
|-
|5
|And they spake unto Moses, saying, The people bring much more than enough for the service of the work, which the LORD commanded to make.
|
|
|-
|6
|And Moses gave commandment, and they caused it to be proclaimed throughout the camp, saying, Let neither man nor woman make any more work for the offering of the sanctuary. So the people were restrained from bringing.
|
|
|-
|7
|For the stuff they had was sufficient for all the work to make it, and too much.
|
|
|-
|8
|And every wise hearted man among them that wrought the work of the tabernacle made ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work made he them.
|
|
|-
|9
|The length of one curtain was twenty and eight cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: the curtains were all of one size.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he coupled the five curtains one unto another: and the other five curtains he coupled one unto another.
|
|
|-
|11
|And he made loops of blue on the edge of one curtain from the selvedge in the coupling: likewise he made in the uttermost side of another curtain, in the coupling of the second.
|
|
|-
|12
|Fifty loops made he in one curtain, and fifty loops made he in the edge of the curtain which was in the coupling of the second: the loops held one curtain to another.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he made fifty taches of gold, and coupled the curtains one unto another with the taches: so it became one tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|14
|And he made curtains of goats' hair for the tent over the tabernacle: eleven curtains he made them.
|
|
|-
|15
|The length of one curtain was thirty cubits, and four cubits was the breadth of one curtain: the eleven curtains were of one size.
|
|
|-
|16
|And he coupled five curtains by themselves, and six curtains by themselves.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he made fifty loops upon the uttermost edge of the curtain in the coupling, and fifty loops made he upon the edge of the curtain which coupleth the second.
|
|
|-
|18
|And he made fifty taches of brass to couple the tent together, that it might be one.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he made a covering for the tent of rams' skins dyed red, and a covering of badgers' skins above that.
|
|
|-
|20
|And he made boards for the tabernacle of shittim wood, standing up.
|
|
|-
|21
|The length of a board was ten cubits, and the breadth of a board one cubit and a half.
|
|
|-
|22
|One board had two tenons, equally distant one from another: thus did he make for all the boards of the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he made boards for the tabernacle; twenty boards for the south side southward:
|
|
|-
|24
|And forty sockets of silver he made under the twenty boards; two sockets under one board for his two tenons, and two sockets under another board for his two tenons.
|
|
|-
|25
|And for the other side of the tabernacle, which is toward the north corner, he made twenty boards,
|
|
|-
|26
|And their forty sockets of silver; two sockets under one board, and two sockets under another board.
|
|
|-
|27
|And for the sides of the tabernacle westward he made six boards.
|
|
|-
|28
|And two boards made he for the corners of the tabernacle in the two sides.
|
|
|-
|29
|And they were coupled beneath, and coupled together at the head thereof, to one ring: thus he did to both of them in both the corners.
|
|
|-
|30
|And there were eight boards; and their sockets were sixteen sockets of silver, under every board two sockets.
|
|
|-
|31
|And he made bars of shittim wood; five for the boards of the one side of the tabernacle,
|
|
|-
|32
|And five bars for the boards of the other side of the tabernacle, and five bars for the boards of the tabernacle for the sides westward.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he made the middle bar to shoot through the boards from the one end to the other.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he overlaid the boards with gold, and made their rings of gold to be places for the bars, and overlaid the bars with gold.
|
|
|-
|35
|And he made a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: with cherubims made he it of cunning work.
|
|
|-
|36
|And he made thereunto four pillars of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold: their hooks were of gold; and he cast for them four sockets of silver.
|
|
|-
|37
|And he made an hanging for the tabernacle door of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, of needlework;
|
|
|-
|38
|And the five pillars of it with their hooks: and he overlaid their chapiters and their fillets with gold: but their five sockets were of brass.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 37==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it:
|
|
|-
|2
|And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he cast for it four rings of gold, to be set by the four corners of it; even two rings upon the one side of it, and two rings upon the other side of it.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
|
|
|-
|5
|And he put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, to bear the ark.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat;
|
|
|-
|8
|One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
|
|
|-
|9
|And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he made the table of shittim wood: two cubits was the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof:
|
|
|-
|11
|And he overlaid it with pure gold, and made thereunto a crown of gold round about.
|
|
|-
|12
|Also he made thereunto a border of an handbreadth round about; and made a crown of gold for the border thereof round about.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he cast for it four rings of gold, and put the rings upon the four corners that were in the four feet thereof.
|
|
|-
|14
|Over against the border were the rings, the places for the staves to bear the table.
|
|
|-
|15
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold, to bear the table.
|
|
|-
|16
|And he made the vessels which were upon the table, his dishes, and his spoons, and his bowls, and his covers to cover withal, of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he made the candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work made he the candlestick; his shaft, and his branch, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, were of the same:
|
|
|-
|18
|And six branches going out of the sides thereof; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side thereof, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side thereof:
|
|
|-
|19
|Three bowls made after the fashion of almonds in one branch, a knop and a flower; and three bowls made like almonds in another branch, a knop and a flower: so throughout the six branches going out of the candlestick.
|
|
|-
|20
|And in the candlestick were four bowls made like almonds, his knops, and his flowers:
|
|
|-
|21
|And a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches going out of it.
|
|
|-
|22
|Their knops and their branches were of the same: all of it was one beaten work of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he made his seven lamps, and his snuffers, and his snuffdishes, of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|24
|Of a talent of pure gold made he it, and all the vessels thereof.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he made the incense altar of shittim wood: the length of it was a cubit, and the breadth of it a cubit; it was foursquare; and two cubits was the height of it; the horns thereof were of the same.
|
|
|-
|26
|And he overlaid it with pure gold, both the top of it, and the sides thereof round about, and the horns of it: also he made unto it a crown of gold round about.
|
|
|-
|27
|And he made two rings of gold for it under the crown thereof, by the two corners of it, upon the two sides thereof, to be places for the staves to bear it withal.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he made the holy anointing oil, and the pure incense of sweet spices, according to the work of the apothecary.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 38==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he made the altar of burnt offering of shittim wood: five cubits was the length thereof, and five cubits the breadth thereof; it was foursquare; and three cubits the height thereof.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he made the horns thereof on the four corners of it; the horns thereof were of the same: and he overlaid it with brass.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he made all the vessels of the altar, the pots, and the shovels, and the basons, and the fleshhooks, and the firepans: all the vessels thereof made he of brass.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he made for the altar a brasen grate of network under the compass thereof beneath unto the midst of it.
|
|
|-
|5
|And he cast four rings for the four ends of the grate of brass, to be places for the staves.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with brass.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he put the staves into the rings on the sides of the altar, to bear it withal; he made the altar hollow with boards.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he made the laver of brass, and the foot of it of brass, of the lookingglasses of the women assembling, which assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|9
|And he made the court: on the south side southward the hangings of the court were of fine twined linen, an hundred cubits:
|
|
|-
|10
|Their pillars were twenty, and their brasen sockets twenty; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets were of silver.
|
|
|-
|11
|And for the north side the hangings were an hundred cubits, their pillars were twenty, and their sockets of brass twenty; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|12
|And for the west side were hangings of fifty cubits, their pillars ten, and their sockets ten; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|13
|And for the east side eastward fifty cubits.
|
|
|-
|14
|The hangings of the one side of the gate were fifteen cubits; their pillars three, and their sockets three.
|
|
|-
|15
|And for the other side of the court gate, on this hand and that hand, were hangings of fifteen cubits; their pillars three, and their sockets three.
|
|
|-
|16
|All the hangings of the court round about were of fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|17
|And the sockets for the pillars were of brass; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver; and the overlaying of their chapiters of silver; and all the pillars of the court were filleted with silver.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the hanging for the gate of the court was needlework, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: and twenty cubits was the length, and the height in the breadth was five cubits, answerable to the hangings of the court.
|
|
|-
|19
|And their pillars were four, and their sockets of brass four; their hooks of silver, and the overlaying of their chapiters and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|20
|And all the pins of the tabernacle, and of the court round about, were of brass.
|
|
|-
|21
|This is the sum of the tabernacle, even of the tabernacle of testimony, as it was counted, according to the commandment of Moses, for the service of the Levites, by the hand of Ithamar, son to Aaron the priest.
|
|
|-
|22
|And Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, made all that the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|23
|And with him was Aholiab, son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan, an engraver, and a cunning workman, and an embroiderer in blue, and in purple, and in scarlet, and fine linen.
|
|
|-
|24
|All the gold that was occupied for the work in all the work of the holy place, even the gold of the offering, was twenty and nine talents, and seven hundred and thirty shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
|
|
|-
|25
|And the silver of them that were numbered of the congregation was an hundred talents, and a thousand seven hundred and threescore and fifteen shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
|
|
|-
|26
|A bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.
|
|
|-
|27
|And of the hundred talents of silver were cast the sockets of the sanctuary, and the sockets of the vail; an hundred sockets of the hundred talents, a talent for a socket.
|
|
|-
|28
|And of the thousand seven hundred seventy and five shekels he made hooks for the pillars, and overlaid their chapiters, and filleted them.
|
|
|-
|29
|And the brass of the offering was seventy talents, and two thousand and four hundred shekels.
|
|
|-
|30
|And therewith he made the sockets to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and the brasen altar, and the brasen grate for it, and all the vessels of the altar,
|
|
|-
|31
|And the sockets of the court round about, and the sockets of the court gate, and all the pins of the tabernacle, and all the pins of the court round about.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 39==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|3
|And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.
|
|
|-
|4
|They made shoulderpieces for it, to couple it together: by the two edges was it coupled together.
|
|
|-
|5
|And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|6
|And they wrought onyx stones inclosed in ouches of gold, graven, as signets are graven, with the names of the children of Israel.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he put them on the shoulders of the ephod, that they should be stones for a memorial to the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he made the breastplate of cunning work, like the work of the ephod; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|9
|It was foursquare; they made the breastplate double: a span was the length thereof, and a span the breadth thereof, being doubled.
|
|
|-
|10
|And they set in it four rows of stones: the first row was a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this was the first row.
|
|
|-
|11
|And the second row, an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the third row, a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
|
|
|-
|13
|And the fourth row, a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper: they were inclosed in ouches of gold in their inclosings.
|
|
|-
|14
|And the stones were according to the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, every one with his name, according to the twelve tribes.
|
|
|-
|15
|And they made upon the breastplate chains at the ends, of wreathen work of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|16
|And they made two ouches of gold, and two gold rings; and put the two rings in the two ends of the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|17
|And they put the two wreathen chains of gold in the two rings on the ends of the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the two ends of the two wreathen chains they fastened in the two ouches, and put them on the shoulderpieces of the ephod, before it.
|
|
|-
|19
|And they made two rings of gold, and put them on the two ends of the breastplate, upon the border of it, which was on the side of the ephod inward.
|
|
|-
|20
|And they made two other golden rings, and put them on the two sides of the ephod underneath, toward the forepart of it, over against the other coupling thereof, above the curious girdle of the ephod.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they did bind the breastplate by his rings unto the rings of the ephod with a lace of blue, that it might be above the curious girdle of the ephod, and that the breastplate might not be loosed from the ephod; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he made the robe of the ephod of woven work, all of blue.
|
|
|-
|23
|And there was an hole in the midst of the robe, as the hole of an habergeon, with a band round about the hole, that it should not rend.
|
|
|-
|24
|And they made upon the hems of the robe pomegranates of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen.
|
|
|-
|25
|And they made bells of pure gold, and put the bells between the pomegranates upon the hem of the robe, round about between the pomegranates;
|
|
|-
|26
|A bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate, round about the hem of the robe to minister in; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|27
|And they made coats of fine linen of woven work for Aaron, and for his sons,
|
|
|-
|28
|And a mitre of fine linen, and goodly bonnets of fine linen, and linen breeches of fine twined linen,
|
|
|-
|29
|And a girdle of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, of needlework; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And they made the plate of the holy crown of pure gold, and wrote upon it a writing, like to the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
|
|
|-
|31
|And they tied unto it a lace of blue, to fasten it on high upon the mitre; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|32
|Thus was all the work of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation finished: and the children of Israel did according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did they.
|
|
|-
|33
|And they brought the tabernacle unto Moses, the tent, and all his furniture, his taches, his boards, his bars, and his pillars, and his sockets,
|
|
|-
|34
|And the covering of rams' skins dyed red, and the covering of badgers' skins, and the vail of the covering,
|
|
|-
|35
|The ark of the testimony, and the staves thereof, and the mercy seat,
|
|
|-
|36
|The table, and all the vessels thereof, and the shewbread,
|
|
|-
|37
|The pure candlestick, with the lamps thereof, even with the lamps to be set in order, and all the vessels thereof, and the oil for light,
|
|
|-
|38
|And the golden altar, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the tabernacle door,
|
|
|-
|39
|The brasen altar, and his grate of brass, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,
|
|
|-
|40
|The hangings of the court, his pillars, and his sockets, and the hanging for the court gate, his cords, and his pins, and all the vessels of the service of the tabernacle, for the tent of the congregation,
|
|
|-
|41
|The cloths of service to do service in the holy place, and the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and his sons' garments, to minister in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|42
|According to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so the children of Israel made all the work.
|
|
|-
|43
|And Moses did look upon all the work, and, behold, they have done it as the LORD had commanded, even so had they done it: and Moses blessed them.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 40==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
|
|
|-
|2
|On the first day of the first month shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|3
|And thou shalt put therein the ark of the testimony, and cover the ark with the vail.
|
|
|-
|4
|And thou shalt bring in the table, and set in order the things that are to be set in order upon it; and thou shalt bring in the candlestick, and light the lamps thereof.
|
|
|-
|5
|And thou shalt set the altar of gold for the incense before the ark of the testimony, and put the hanging of the door to the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|6
|And thou shalt set the altar of the burnt offering before the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|7
|And thou shalt set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and shalt put water therein.
|
|
|-
|8
|And thou shalt set up the court round about, and hang up the hanging at the court gate.
|
|
|-
|9
|And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is therein, and shalt hallow it, and all the vessels thereof: and it shall be holy.
|
|
|-
|10
|And thou shalt anoint the altar of the burnt offering, and all his vessels, and sanctify the altar: and it shall be an altar most holy.
|
|
|-
|11
|And thou shalt anoint the laver and his foot, and sanctify it.
|
|
|-
|12
|And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
|
|
|-
|13
|And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|14
|And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:
|
|
|-
|15
|And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.
|
|
|-
|16
|Thus did Moses: according to all that the LORD commanded him, so did he.
|
|
|-
|17
|And it came to pass in the first month in the second year, on the first day of the month, that the tabernacle was reared up.
|
|
|-
|18
|And Moses reared up the tabernacle, and fastened his sockets, and set up the boards thereof, and put in the bars thereof, and reared up his pillars.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he spread abroad the tent over the tabernacle, and put the covering of the tent above upon it; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|20
|And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark:
|
|
|-
|21
|And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and set up the vail of the covering, and covered the ark of the testimony; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he put the table in the tent of the congregation, upon the side of the tabernacle northward, without the vail.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he set the bread in order upon it before the LORD; as the LORD had commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|24
|And he put the candlestick in the tent of the congregation, over against the table, on the side of the tabernacle southward.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he lighted the lamps before the LORD; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|26
|And he put the golden altar in the tent of the congregation before the vail:
|
|
|-
|27
|And he burnt sweet incense thereon; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he set up the hanging at the door of the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he put the altar of burnt offering by the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation, and offered upon it the burnt offering and the meat offering; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And he set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and put water there, to wash withal.
|
|
|-
|31
|And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat:
|
|
|-
|32
|When they went into the tent of the congregation, and when they came near unto the altar, they washed; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he reared up the court round about the tabernacle and the altar, and set up the hanging of the court gate. So Moses finished the work.
|
|
|-
|34
|Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|35
|And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|36
|And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys:
|
|
|-
|37
|But if the cloud were not taken up, then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up.
|
|
|-
|38
|For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category: Conservative Bible]]

Exodus 34-40 (Translated)

2013-02-23T14:09:01Z

Onestone:

==Chapter 34==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
|The LORD said to Moses: make two stone tablets like the previous ones; I will write on the tablets the things that were on the the first tablets that you broke.
|
|-
|2
|And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
|Be prepared for the morning, and go in the morning to mount Sinai, and on top of it you will show yourself to me.
|
|-
|3
|And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
|No one is to come with you, and no one should be seen next to the mountain, and the herds and the cattle should also not come close to the mountain.
|
|-
|4
|And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
|He made two stone tablets like the previous ones, and in the morning Moses woke up and went to mount Sinai as the LORD told him to, and he carried in his hands the two stone tablets.
|
|-
|5
|And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
|And the LORD came down in a cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
|
|-
|6
|And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
|And the LORD passed in front of his face and said: The LORD, The LORD, merciful and compassionate, patient, and full of grace and truth,
|
|-
|7
|Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
|Keeping the grace for thousands, who forgives wrong deeds and crime and sin, who will punish the guilty, who will make the sons and the sons of the sons, the third and fourth generations, pay for the sins of their fathers.
|
|-
|8
|And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
|And Moses quickly bowed down and worshiped.
|
|-
|9
|And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
|And he said, if I am liked by you, my LORD, walk among us, because the people are ungrateful, and forgive our sins and misdeeds, and make us your property.
|
|-
|10
|And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.
|And God said I will make a covenant with all of your nation and I will do wonders which have not been done before in any place or nation and all the people of whom you are a part of shall see the acts of the LORD, for the deed I am doing with you is tremendous.
|
|-
|11
|Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
|Obey what I command you today. I will banish the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite.
|
|-
|12
|Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
|Be careful not to ally with those sitting in the land you are about to come to, so they will not be an obstacle to you.
|
|-
|13
|But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
|For you will destroy their altars, break their sacred stones, and remove their idols.
|
|-
|14
|For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
|This is because you are not supposed to worship any other god, because the name of the LORD is jealous and he is a jealous God.
|
|-
|15
|Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods , and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
|This is meant to prevent you from allying with those sitting in the land, who will whore after their gods and will sacrifice to their gods, and one will call you and you will eat his sacrifice.
|
|-
|16
|And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
|You will take their daughters for your sons, and their daughters will whore after their gods and they will whore your sons to their gods.
|
|-
|17
|Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
|You will not make for yourself a mask idol.
|
|-
|18
|The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
|You will celebrate the holiday of the unleavened bread for seven days in which you will eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, during the month of the spring. This is because during the month of the spring you came out of Egypt.
|
|-
|19
|All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
|
|
|-
|20
|But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
|
|
|-
|21
|Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
|
|
|-
|22
|And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
|
|
|-
|23
|Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.
|
|
|-
|24
|For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
|
|
|-
|25
|Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
|
|
|-
|26
|The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
|
|
|-
|27
|And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
|
|
|-
|29
|And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
|
|There is considerable debate over the translation of "shone" in this passage, as well as the next (34:30). The original Hebrew may have meant "horned."[http://galusaustralis.com/2009/09/1608/horny-jew-whats-the-deal-with-michelangelos-moses/]
|-
|30
|And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
|
|
|-
|31
|And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
|
|
|-
|32
|And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
|
|
|-
|33
|And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
|
|
|-
|34
|But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
|
|
|-
|35
|And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 35==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them.
|
|
|-
|2
|Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
|
|
|-
|3
|Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
|
|
|-
|4
|And Moses spake unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD commanded, saying,
|
|
|-
|5
|Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,
|
|
|-
|6
|And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,
|
|
|-
|7
|And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
|
|
|-
|8
|And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,
|
|
|-
|9
|And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|10
|And every wise hearted among you shall come, and make all that the LORD hath commanded;
|
|
|-
|11
|The tabernacle, his tent, and his covering, his taches, and his boards, his bars, his pillars, and his sockets,
|
|
|-
|12
|The ark, and the staves thereof, with the mercy seat, and the vail of the covering,
|
|
|-
|13
|The table, and his staves, and all his vessels, and the shewbread,
|
|
|-
|14
|The candlestick also for the light, and his furniture, and his lamps, with the oil for the light,
|
|
|-
|15
|And the incense altar, and his staves, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the door at the entering in of the tabernacle,
|
|
|-
|16
|The altar of burnt offering, with his brasen grate, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,
|
|
|-
|17
|The hangings of the court, his pillars, and their sockets, and the hanging for the door of the court,
|
|
|-
|18
|The pins of the tabernacle, and the pins of the court, and their cords,
|
|
|-
|19
|The cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|20
|And all the congregation of the children of Israel departed from the presence of Moses.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.
|
|
|-
|22
|And they came, both men and women, as many as were willing hearted, and brought bracelets, and earrings, and rings, and tablets, all jewels of gold: and every man that offered offered an offering of gold unto the LORD.
|
|
|-
|23
|And every man, with whom was found blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, and red skins of rams, and badgers' skins, brought them.
|
|
|-
|24
|Every one that did offer an offering of silver and brass brought the LORD's offering: and every man, with whom was found shittim wood for any work of the service, brought it.
|
|
|-
|25
|And all the women that were wise hearted did spin with their hands, and brought that which they had spun, both of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine linen.
|
|
|-
|26
|And all the women whose heart stirred them up in wisdom spun goats' hair.
|
|
|-
|27
|And the rulers brought onyx stones, and stones to be set, for the ephod, and for the breastplate;
|
|
|-
|28
|And spice, and oil for the light, and for the anointing oil, and for the sweet incense.
|
|
|-
|29
|The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the LORD, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the LORD had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
|
|
|-
|31
|And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
|
|
|-
|32
|And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
|
|
|-
|33
|And in the cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, both he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan.
|
|
|-
|35
|Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 36==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then wrought Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whom the LORD put wisdom and understanding to know how to work all manner of work for the service of the sanctuary, according to all that the LORD had commanded.
|
|
|-
|2
|And Moses called Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whose heart the LORD had put wisdom, even every one whose heart stirred him up to come unto the work to do it:
|
|
|-
|3
|And they received of Moses all the offering, which the children of Israel had brought for the work of the service of the sanctuary, to make it withal. And they brought yet unto him free offerings every morning.
|
|
|-
|4
|And all the wise men, that wrought all the work of the sanctuary, came every man from his work which they made;
|
|
|-
|5
|And they spake unto Moses, saying, The people bring much more than enough for the service of the work, which the LORD commanded to make.
|
|
|-
|6
|And Moses gave commandment, and they caused it to be proclaimed throughout the camp, saying, Let neither man nor woman make any more work for the offering of the sanctuary. So the people were restrained from bringing.
|
|
|-
|7
|For the stuff they had was sufficient for all the work to make it, and too much.
|
|
|-
|8
|And every wise hearted man among them that wrought the work of the tabernacle made ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work made he them.
|
|
|-
|9
|The length of one curtain was twenty and eight cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: the curtains were all of one size.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he coupled the five curtains one unto another: and the other five curtains he coupled one unto another.
|
|
|-
|11
|And he made loops of blue on the edge of one curtain from the selvedge in the coupling: likewise he made in the uttermost side of another curtain, in the coupling of the second.
|
|
|-
|12
|Fifty loops made he in one curtain, and fifty loops made he in the edge of the curtain which was in the coupling of the second: the loops held one curtain to another.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he made fifty taches of gold, and coupled the curtains one unto another with the taches: so it became one tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|14
|And he made curtains of goats' hair for the tent over the tabernacle: eleven curtains he made them.
|
|
|-
|15
|The length of one curtain was thirty cubits, and four cubits was the breadth of one curtain: the eleven curtains were of one size.
|
|
|-
|16
|And he coupled five curtains by themselves, and six curtains by themselves.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he made fifty loops upon the uttermost edge of the curtain in the coupling, and fifty loops made he upon the edge of the curtain which coupleth the second.
|
|
|-
|18
|And he made fifty taches of brass to couple the tent together, that it might be one.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he made a covering for the tent of rams' skins dyed red, and a covering of badgers' skins above that.
|
|
|-
|20
|And he made boards for the tabernacle of shittim wood, standing up.
|
|
|-
|21
|The length of a board was ten cubits, and the breadth of a board one cubit and a half.
|
|
|-
|22
|One board had two tenons, equally distant one from another: thus did he make for all the boards of the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he made boards for the tabernacle; twenty boards for the south side southward:
|
|
|-
|24
|And forty sockets of silver he made under the twenty boards; two sockets under one board for his two tenons, and two sockets under another board for his two tenons.
|
|
|-
|25
|And for the other side of the tabernacle, which is toward the north corner, he made twenty boards,
|
|
|-
|26
|And their forty sockets of silver; two sockets under one board, and two sockets under another board.
|
|
|-
|27
|And for the sides of the tabernacle westward he made six boards.
|
|
|-
|28
|And two boards made he for the corners of the tabernacle in the two sides.
|
|
|-
|29
|And they were coupled beneath, and coupled together at the head thereof, to one ring: thus he did to both of them in both the corners.
|
|
|-
|30
|And there were eight boards; and their sockets were sixteen sockets of silver, under every board two sockets.
|
|
|-
|31
|And he made bars of shittim wood; five for the boards of the one side of the tabernacle,
|
|
|-
|32
|And five bars for the boards of the other side of the tabernacle, and five bars for the boards of the tabernacle for the sides westward.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he made the middle bar to shoot through the boards from the one end to the other.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he overlaid the boards with gold, and made their rings of gold to be places for the bars, and overlaid the bars with gold.
|
|
|-
|35
|And he made a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: with cherubims made he it of cunning work.
|
|
|-
|36
|And he made thereunto four pillars of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold: their hooks were of gold; and he cast for them four sockets of silver.
|
|
|-
|37
|And he made an hanging for the tabernacle door of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, of needlework;
|
|
|-
|38
|And the five pillars of it with their hooks: and he overlaid their chapiters and their fillets with gold: but their five sockets were of brass.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 37==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it:
|
|
|-
|2
|And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he cast for it four rings of gold, to be set by the four corners of it; even two rings upon the one side of it, and two rings upon the other side of it.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
|
|
|-
|5
|And he put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, to bear the ark.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat;
|
|
|-
|8
|One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
|
|
|-
|9
|And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he made the table of shittim wood: two cubits was the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof:
|
|
|-
|11
|And he overlaid it with pure gold, and made thereunto a crown of gold round about.
|
|
|-
|12
|Also he made thereunto a border of an handbreadth round about; and made a crown of gold for the border thereof round about.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he cast for it four rings of gold, and put the rings upon the four corners that were in the four feet thereof.
|
|
|-
|14
|Over against the border were the rings, the places for the staves to bear the table.
|
|
|-
|15
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold, to bear the table.
|
|
|-
|16
|And he made the vessels which were upon the table, his dishes, and his spoons, and his bowls, and his covers to cover withal, of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he made the candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work made he the candlestick; his shaft, and his branch, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, were of the same:
|
|
|-
|18
|And six branches going out of the sides thereof; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side thereof, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side thereof:
|
|
|-
|19
|Three bowls made after the fashion of almonds in one branch, a knop and a flower; and three bowls made like almonds in another branch, a knop and a flower: so throughout the six branches going out of the candlestick.
|
|
|-
|20
|And in the candlestick were four bowls made like almonds, his knops, and his flowers:
|
|
|-
|21
|And a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches going out of it.
|
|
|-
|22
|Their knops and their branches were of the same: all of it was one beaten work of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he made his seven lamps, and his snuffers, and his snuffdishes, of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|24
|Of a talent of pure gold made he it, and all the vessels thereof.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he made the incense altar of shittim wood: the length of it was a cubit, and the breadth of it a cubit; it was foursquare; and two cubits was the height of it; the horns thereof were of the same.
|
|
|-
|26
|And he overlaid it with pure gold, both the top of it, and the sides thereof round about, and the horns of it: also he made unto it a crown of gold round about.
|
|
|-
|27
|And he made two rings of gold for it under the crown thereof, by the two corners of it, upon the two sides thereof, to be places for the staves to bear it withal.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he made the holy anointing oil, and the pure incense of sweet spices, according to the work of the apothecary.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 38==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he made the altar of burnt offering of shittim wood: five cubits was the length thereof, and five cubits the breadth thereof; it was foursquare; and three cubits the height thereof.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he made the horns thereof on the four corners of it; the horns thereof were of the same: and he overlaid it with brass.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he made all the vessels of the altar, the pots, and the shovels, and the basons, and the fleshhooks, and the firepans: all the vessels thereof made he of brass.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he made for the altar a brasen grate of network under the compass thereof beneath unto the midst of it.
|
|
|-
|5
|And he cast four rings for the four ends of the grate of brass, to be places for the staves.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with brass.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he put the staves into the rings on the sides of the altar, to bear it withal; he made the altar hollow with boards.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he made the laver of brass, and the foot of it of brass, of the lookingglasses of the women assembling, which assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|9
|And he made the court: on the south side southward the hangings of the court were of fine twined linen, an hundred cubits:
|
|
|-
|10
|Their pillars were twenty, and their brasen sockets twenty; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets were of silver.
|
|
|-
|11
|And for the north side the hangings were an hundred cubits, their pillars were twenty, and their sockets of brass twenty; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|12
|And for the west side were hangings of fifty cubits, their pillars ten, and their sockets ten; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|13
|And for the east side eastward fifty cubits.
|
|
|-
|14
|The hangings of the one side of the gate were fifteen cubits; their pillars three, and their sockets three.
|
|
|-
|15
|And for the other side of the court gate, on this hand and that hand, were hangings of fifteen cubits; their pillars three, and their sockets three.
|
|
|-
|16
|All the hangings of the court round about were of fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|17
|And the sockets for the pillars were of brass; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver; and the overlaying of their chapiters of silver; and all the pillars of the court were filleted with silver.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the hanging for the gate of the court was needlework, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: and twenty cubits was the length, and the height in the breadth was five cubits, answerable to the hangings of the court.
|
|
|-
|19
|And their pillars were four, and their sockets of brass four; their hooks of silver, and the overlaying of their chapiters and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|20
|And all the pins of the tabernacle, and of the court round about, were of brass.
|
|
|-
|21
|This is the sum of the tabernacle, even of the tabernacle of testimony, as it was counted, according to the commandment of Moses, for the service of the Levites, by the hand of Ithamar, son to Aaron the priest.
|
|
|-
|22
|And Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, made all that the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|23
|And with him was Aholiab, son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan, an engraver, and a cunning workman, and an embroiderer in blue, and in purple, and in scarlet, and fine linen.
|
|
|-
|24
|All the gold that was occupied for the work in all the work of the holy place, even the gold of the offering, was twenty and nine talents, and seven hundred and thirty shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
|
|
|-
|25
|And the silver of them that were numbered of the congregation was an hundred talents, and a thousand seven hundred and threescore and fifteen shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
|
|
|-
|26
|A bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.
|
|
|-
|27
|And of the hundred talents of silver were cast the sockets of the sanctuary, and the sockets of the vail; an hundred sockets of the hundred talents, a talent for a socket.
|
|
|-
|28
|And of the thousand seven hundred seventy and five shekels he made hooks for the pillars, and overlaid their chapiters, and filleted them.
|
|
|-
|29
|And the brass of the offering was seventy talents, and two thousand and four hundred shekels.
|
|
|-
|30
|And therewith he made the sockets to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and the brasen altar, and the brasen grate for it, and all the vessels of the altar,
|
|
|-
|31
|And the sockets of the court round about, and the sockets of the court gate, and all the pins of the tabernacle, and all the pins of the court round about.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 39==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|3
|And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.
|
|
|-
|4
|They made shoulderpieces for it, to couple it together: by the two edges was it coupled together.
|
|
|-
|5
|And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|6
|And they wrought onyx stones inclosed in ouches of gold, graven, as signets are graven, with the names of the children of Israel.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he put them on the shoulders of the ephod, that they should be stones for a memorial to the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he made the breastplate of cunning work, like the work of the ephod; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|9
|It was foursquare; they made the breastplate double: a span was the length thereof, and a span the breadth thereof, being doubled.
|
|
|-
|10
|And they set in it four rows of stones: the first row was a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this was the first row.
|
|
|-
|11
|And the second row, an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the third row, a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
|
|
|-
|13
|And the fourth row, a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper: they were inclosed in ouches of gold in their inclosings.
|
|
|-
|14
|And the stones were according to the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, every one with his name, according to the twelve tribes.
|
|
|-
|15
|And they made upon the breastplate chains at the ends, of wreathen work of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|16
|And they made two ouches of gold, and two gold rings; and put the two rings in the two ends of the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|17
|And they put the two wreathen chains of gold in the two rings on the ends of the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the two ends of the two wreathen chains they fastened in the two ouches, and put them on the shoulderpieces of the ephod, before it.
|
|
|-
|19
|And they made two rings of gold, and put them on the two ends of the breastplate, upon the border of it, which was on the side of the ephod inward.
|
|
|-
|20
|And they made two other golden rings, and put them on the two sides of the ephod underneath, toward the forepart of it, over against the other coupling thereof, above the curious girdle of the ephod.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they did bind the breastplate by his rings unto the rings of the ephod with a lace of blue, that it might be above the curious girdle of the ephod, and that the breastplate might not be loosed from the ephod; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he made the robe of the ephod of woven work, all of blue.
|
|
|-
|23
|And there was an hole in the midst of the robe, as the hole of an habergeon, with a band round about the hole, that it should not rend.
|
|
|-
|24
|And they made upon the hems of the robe pomegranates of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen.
|
|
|-
|25
|And they made bells of pure gold, and put the bells between the pomegranates upon the hem of the robe, round about between the pomegranates;
|
|
|-
|26
|A bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate, round about the hem of the robe to minister in; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|27
|And they made coats of fine linen of woven work for Aaron, and for his sons,
|
|
|-
|28
|And a mitre of fine linen, and goodly bonnets of fine linen, and linen breeches of fine twined linen,
|
|
|-
|29
|And a girdle of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, of needlework; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And they made the plate of the holy crown of pure gold, and wrote upon it a writing, like to the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
|
|
|-
|31
|And they tied unto it a lace of blue, to fasten it on high upon the mitre; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|32
|Thus was all the work of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation finished: and the children of Israel did according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did they.
|
|
|-
|33
|And they brought the tabernacle unto Moses, the tent, and all his furniture, his taches, his boards, his bars, and his pillars, and his sockets,
|
|
|-
|34
|And the covering of rams' skins dyed red, and the covering of badgers' skins, and the vail of the covering,
|
|
|-
|35
|The ark of the testimony, and the staves thereof, and the mercy seat,
|
|
|-
|36
|The table, and all the vessels thereof, and the shewbread,
|
|
|-
|37
|The pure candlestick, with the lamps thereof, even with the lamps to be set in order, and all the vessels thereof, and the oil for light,
|
|
|-
|38
|And the golden altar, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the tabernacle door,
|
|
|-
|39
|The brasen altar, and his grate of brass, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,
|
|
|-
|40
|The hangings of the court, his pillars, and his sockets, and the hanging for the court gate, his cords, and his pins, and all the vessels of the service of the tabernacle, for the tent of the congregation,
|
|
|-
|41
|The cloths of service to do service in the holy place, and the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and his sons' garments, to minister in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|42
|According to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so the children of Israel made all the work.
|
|
|-
|43
|And Moses did look upon all the work, and, behold, they have done it as the LORD had commanded, even so had they done it: and Moses blessed them.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 40==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
|
|
|-
|2
|On the first day of the first month shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|3
|And thou shalt put therein the ark of the testimony, and cover the ark with the vail.
|
|
|-
|4
|And thou shalt bring in the table, and set in order the things that are to be set in order upon it; and thou shalt bring in the candlestick, and light the lamps thereof.
|
|
|-
|5
|And thou shalt set the altar of gold for the incense before the ark of the testimony, and put the hanging of the door to the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|6
|And thou shalt set the altar of the burnt offering before the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|7
|And thou shalt set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and shalt put water therein.
|
|
|-
|8
|And thou shalt set up the court round about, and hang up the hanging at the court gate.
|
|
|-
|9
|And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is therein, and shalt hallow it, and all the vessels thereof: and it shall be holy.
|
|
|-
|10
|And thou shalt anoint the altar of the burnt offering, and all his vessels, and sanctify the altar: and it shall be an altar most holy.
|
|
|-
|11
|And thou shalt anoint the laver and his foot, and sanctify it.
|
|
|-
|12
|And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
|
|
|-
|13
|And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|14
|And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:
|
|
|-
|15
|And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.
|
|
|-
|16
|Thus did Moses: according to all that the LORD commanded him, so did he.
|
|
|-
|17
|And it came to pass in the first month in the second year, on the first day of the month, that the tabernacle was reared up.
|
|
|-
|18
|And Moses reared up the tabernacle, and fastened his sockets, and set up the boards thereof, and put in the bars thereof, and reared up his pillars.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he spread abroad the tent over the tabernacle, and put the covering of the tent above upon it; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|20
|And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark:
|
|
|-
|21
|And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and set up the vail of the covering, and covered the ark of the testimony; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he put the table in the tent of the congregation, upon the side of the tabernacle northward, without the vail.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he set the bread in order upon it before the LORD; as the LORD had commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|24
|And he put the candlestick in the tent of the congregation, over against the table, on the side of the tabernacle southward.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he lighted the lamps before the LORD; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|26
|And he put the golden altar in the tent of the congregation before the vail:
|
|
|-
|27
|And he burnt sweet incense thereon; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he set up the hanging at the door of the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he put the altar of burnt offering by the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation, and offered upon it the burnt offering and the meat offering; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And he set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and put water there, to wash withal.
|
|
|-
|31
|And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat:
|
|
|-
|32
|When they went into the tent of the congregation, and when they came near unto the altar, they washed; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he reared up the court round about the tabernacle and the altar, and set up the hanging of the court gate. So Moses finished the work.
|
|
|-
|34
|Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|35
|And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|36
|And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys:
|
|
|-
|37
|But if the cloud were not taken up, then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up.
|
|
|-
|38
|For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category: Conservative Bible]]

Exodus 34-40 (Translated)

2013-02-23T13:58:18Z

Onestone: I don't think 'tombstones' is the right translation here.

==Chapter 34==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
|The LORD said to Moses: make two stone tablets like the previous ones; I will write on the tablets the things that were on the the first tablets that you broke.
|
|-
|2
|And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
|Be prepared for the morning, and go in the morning to mount Sinai, and on top of it you will show yourself to me.
|
|-
|3
|And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
|No one is to come with you, and no one should be seen next to the mountain, and the herds and the cattle should also not come close to the mountain.
|
|-
|4
|And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
|He made two stone tablets like the previous ones, and in the morning Moses woke up and went to mount Sinai as the LORD told him to, and he carried in his hands the two stone tablets.
|
|-
|5
|And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
|And the LORD came down in a cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
|
|-
|6
|And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
|And the LORD passed in front of his face and said: The LORD, The LORD, merciful and compassionate, patient, and full of grace and truth,
|
|-
|7
|Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
|Keeping the grace for thousands, who forgives wrong deeds and crime and sin, who will punish the guilty, who will make the sons and the sons of the sons, the third and fourth generations, pay for the sins of their fathers.
|
|-
|8
|And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
|And Moses quickly bowed down and worshiped.
|
|-
|9
|And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
|And he said, if I am liked by you, my LORD, walk among us, because the people are ungrateful, and forgive our sins and misdeeds, and make us your property.
|
|-
|10
|And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.
|And God said I will make a covenant with all of your nation and I will do wonders which have not been done before in any place or nation and all the people of whom you are a part of shall see the acts of the LORD, for the deed I am doing with you is tremendous.
|
|-
|11
|Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
|Obey what I command you today. I will banish the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite.
|
|-
|12
|Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
|Be careful not to ally with those sitting in the land you are about to come to, so they will not be an obstacle to you.
|
|-
|13
|But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
|For you will destroy their altars, break their sacred stones, and remove their idols.
|
|-
|14
|For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
|This is because you are not supposed worship any other god, because the name of the LORD is jealous and he is a jealous God.
|
|-
|15
|Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods , and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
|This is meant to prevent you from allying with those sitting in the land, who will whore after their gods and will sacrifice to their gods, and one will call you and you will eat his sacrifice.
|
|-
|16
|And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
|You will take their daughters for your sons, and their daughters will whore after their gods and they will whore your sons to their gods.
|
|-
|17
|Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
|You will not make for yourself a mask idol.
|
|-
|18
|The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
|You will celebrate the holiday of the unleavened bread for seven days in which you will eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, during the month of the spring. This is because during the month of the spring you came out of Egypt.
|
|-
|19
|All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
|
|
|-
|20
|But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
|
|
|-
|21
|Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
|
|
|-
|22
|And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
|
|
|-
|23
|Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.
|
|
|-
|24
|For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
|
|
|-
|25
|Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
|
|
|-
|26
|The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
|
|
|-
|27
|And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
|
|
|-
|29
|And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
|
|There is considerable debate over the translation of "shone" in this passage, as well as the next (34:30). The original Hebrew may have meant "horned."[http://galusaustralis.com/2009/09/1608/horny-jew-whats-the-deal-with-michelangelos-moses/]
|-
|30
|And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
|
|
|-
|31
|And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
|
|
|-
|32
|And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
|
|
|-
|33
|And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
|
|
|-
|34
|But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
|
|
|-
|35
|And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 35==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them.
|
|
|-
|2
|Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
|
|
|-
|3
|Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
|
|
|-
|4
|And Moses spake unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD commanded, saying,
|
|
|-
|5
|Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,
|
|
|-
|6
|And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,
|
|
|-
|7
|And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
|
|
|-
|8
|And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,
|
|
|-
|9
|And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|10
|And every wise hearted among you shall come, and make all that the LORD hath commanded;
|
|
|-
|11
|The tabernacle, his tent, and his covering, his taches, and his boards, his bars, his pillars, and his sockets,
|
|
|-
|12
|The ark, and the staves thereof, with the mercy seat, and the vail of the covering,
|
|
|-
|13
|The table, and his staves, and all his vessels, and the shewbread,
|
|
|-
|14
|The candlestick also for the light, and his furniture, and his lamps, with the oil for the light,
|
|
|-
|15
|And the incense altar, and his staves, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the door at the entering in of the tabernacle,
|
|
|-
|16
|The altar of burnt offering, with his brasen grate, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,
|
|
|-
|17
|The hangings of the court, his pillars, and their sockets, and the hanging for the door of the court,
|
|
|-
|18
|The pins of the tabernacle, and the pins of the court, and their cords,
|
|
|-
|19
|The cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|20
|And all the congregation of the children of Israel departed from the presence of Moses.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.
|
|
|-
|22
|And they came, both men and women, as many as were willing hearted, and brought bracelets, and earrings, and rings, and tablets, all jewels of gold: and every man that offered offered an offering of gold unto the LORD.
|
|
|-
|23
|And every man, with whom was found blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, and red skins of rams, and badgers' skins, brought them.
|
|
|-
|24
|Every one that did offer an offering of silver and brass brought the LORD's offering: and every man, with whom was found shittim wood for any work of the service, brought it.
|
|
|-
|25
|And all the women that were wise hearted did spin with their hands, and brought that which they had spun, both of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine linen.
|
|
|-
|26
|And all the women whose heart stirred them up in wisdom spun goats' hair.
|
|
|-
|27
|And the rulers brought onyx stones, and stones to be set, for the ephod, and for the breastplate;
|
|
|-
|28
|And spice, and oil for the light, and for the anointing oil, and for the sweet incense.
|
|
|-
|29
|The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the LORD, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the LORD had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
|
|
|-
|31
|And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
|
|
|-
|32
|And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
|
|
|-
|33
|And in the cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, both he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan.
|
|
|-
|35
|Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 36==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then wrought Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whom the LORD put wisdom and understanding to know how to work all manner of work for the service of the sanctuary, according to all that the LORD had commanded.
|
|
|-
|2
|And Moses called Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whose heart the LORD had put wisdom, even every one whose heart stirred him up to come unto the work to do it:
|
|
|-
|3
|And they received of Moses all the offering, which the children of Israel had brought for the work of the service of the sanctuary, to make it withal. And they brought yet unto him free offerings every morning.
|
|
|-
|4
|And all the wise men, that wrought all the work of the sanctuary, came every man from his work which they made;
|
|
|-
|5
|And they spake unto Moses, saying, The people bring much more than enough for the service of the work, which the LORD commanded to make.
|
|
|-
|6
|And Moses gave commandment, and they caused it to be proclaimed throughout the camp, saying, Let neither man nor woman make any more work for the offering of the sanctuary. So the people were restrained from bringing.
|
|
|-
|7
|For the stuff they had was sufficient for all the work to make it, and too much.
|
|
|-
|8
|And every wise hearted man among them that wrought the work of the tabernacle made ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work made he them.
|
|
|-
|9
|The length of one curtain was twenty and eight cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: the curtains were all of one size.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he coupled the five curtains one unto another: and the other five curtains he coupled one unto another.
|
|
|-
|11
|And he made loops of blue on the edge of one curtain from the selvedge in the coupling: likewise he made in the uttermost side of another curtain, in the coupling of the second.
|
|
|-
|12
|Fifty loops made he in one curtain, and fifty loops made he in the edge of the curtain which was in the coupling of the second: the loops held one curtain to another.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he made fifty taches of gold, and coupled the curtains one unto another with the taches: so it became one tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|14
|And he made curtains of goats' hair for the tent over the tabernacle: eleven curtains he made them.
|
|
|-
|15
|The length of one curtain was thirty cubits, and four cubits was the breadth of one curtain: the eleven curtains were of one size.
|
|
|-
|16
|And he coupled five curtains by themselves, and six curtains by themselves.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he made fifty loops upon the uttermost edge of the curtain in the coupling, and fifty loops made he upon the edge of the curtain which coupleth the second.
|
|
|-
|18
|And he made fifty taches of brass to couple the tent together, that it might be one.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he made a covering for the tent of rams' skins dyed red, and a covering of badgers' skins above that.
|
|
|-
|20
|And he made boards for the tabernacle of shittim wood, standing up.
|
|
|-
|21
|The length of a board was ten cubits, and the breadth of a board one cubit and a half.
|
|
|-
|22
|One board had two tenons, equally distant one from another: thus did he make for all the boards of the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he made boards for the tabernacle; twenty boards for the south side southward:
|
|
|-
|24
|And forty sockets of silver he made under the twenty boards; two sockets under one board for his two tenons, and two sockets under another board for his two tenons.
|
|
|-
|25
|And for the other side of the tabernacle, which is toward the north corner, he made twenty boards,
|
|
|-
|26
|And their forty sockets of silver; two sockets under one board, and two sockets under another board.
|
|
|-
|27
|And for the sides of the tabernacle westward he made six boards.
|
|
|-
|28
|And two boards made he for the corners of the tabernacle in the two sides.
|
|
|-
|29
|And they were coupled beneath, and coupled together at the head thereof, to one ring: thus he did to both of them in both the corners.
|
|
|-
|30
|And there were eight boards; and their sockets were sixteen sockets of silver, under every board two sockets.
|
|
|-
|31
|And he made bars of shittim wood; five for the boards of the one side of the tabernacle,
|
|
|-
|32
|And five bars for the boards of the other side of the tabernacle, and five bars for the boards of the tabernacle for the sides westward.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he made the middle bar to shoot through the boards from the one end to the other.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he overlaid the boards with gold, and made their rings of gold to be places for the bars, and overlaid the bars with gold.
|
|
|-
|35
|And he made a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: with cherubims made he it of cunning work.
|
|
|-
|36
|And he made thereunto four pillars of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold: their hooks were of gold; and he cast for them four sockets of silver.
|
|
|-
|37
|And he made an hanging for the tabernacle door of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, of needlework;
|
|
|-
|38
|And the five pillars of it with their hooks: and he overlaid their chapiters and their fillets with gold: but their five sockets were of brass.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 37==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it:
|
|
|-
|2
|And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he cast for it four rings of gold, to be set by the four corners of it; even two rings upon the one side of it, and two rings upon the other side of it.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
|
|
|-
|5
|And he put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, to bear the ark.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat;
|
|
|-
|8
|One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
|
|
|-
|9
|And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he made the table of shittim wood: two cubits was the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof:
|
|
|-
|11
|And he overlaid it with pure gold, and made thereunto a crown of gold round about.
|
|
|-
|12
|Also he made thereunto a border of an handbreadth round about; and made a crown of gold for the border thereof round about.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he cast for it four rings of gold, and put the rings upon the four corners that were in the four feet thereof.
|
|
|-
|14
|Over against the border were the rings, the places for the staves to bear the table.
|
|
|-
|15
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold, to bear the table.
|
|
|-
|16
|And he made the vessels which were upon the table, his dishes, and his spoons, and his bowls, and his covers to cover withal, of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he made the candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work made he the candlestick; his shaft, and his branch, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, were of the same:
|
|
|-
|18
|And six branches going out of the sides thereof; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side thereof, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side thereof:
|
|
|-
|19
|Three bowls made after the fashion of almonds in one branch, a knop and a flower; and three bowls made like almonds in another branch, a knop and a flower: so throughout the six branches going out of the candlestick.
|
|
|-
|20
|And in the candlestick were four bowls made like almonds, his knops, and his flowers:
|
|
|-
|21
|And a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches going out of it.
|
|
|-
|22
|Their knops and their branches were of the same: all of it was one beaten work of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he made his seven lamps, and his snuffers, and his snuffdishes, of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|24
|Of a talent of pure gold made he it, and all the vessels thereof.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he made the incense altar of shittim wood: the length of it was a cubit, and the breadth of it a cubit; it was foursquare; and two cubits was the height of it; the horns thereof were of the same.
|
|
|-
|26
|And he overlaid it with pure gold, both the top of it, and the sides thereof round about, and the horns of it: also he made unto it a crown of gold round about.
|
|
|-
|27
|And he made two rings of gold for it under the crown thereof, by the two corners of it, upon the two sides thereof, to be places for the staves to bear it withal.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he made the holy anointing oil, and the pure incense of sweet spices, according to the work of the apothecary.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 38==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he made the altar of burnt offering of shittim wood: five cubits was the length thereof, and five cubits the breadth thereof; it was foursquare; and three cubits the height thereof.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he made the horns thereof on the four corners of it; the horns thereof were of the same: and he overlaid it with brass.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he made all the vessels of the altar, the pots, and the shovels, and the basons, and the fleshhooks, and the firepans: all the vessels thereof made he of brass.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he made for the altar a brasen grate of network under the compass thereof beneath unto the midst of it.
|
|
|-
|5
|And he cast four rings for the four ends of the grate of brass, to be places for the staves.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with brass.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he put the staves into the rings on the sides of the altar, to bear it withal; he made the altar hollow with boards.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he made the laver of brass, and the foot of it of brass, of the lookingglasses of the women assembling, which assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|9
|And he made the court: on the south side southward the hangings of the court were of fine twined linen, an hundred cubits:
|
|
|-
|10
|Their pillars were twenty, and their brasen sockets twenty; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets were of silver.
|
|
|-
|11
|And for the north side the hangings were an hundred cubits, their pillars were twenty, and their sockets of brass twenty; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|12
|And for the west side were hangings of fifty cubits, their pillars ten, and their sockets ten; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|13
|And for the east side eastward fifty cubits.
|
|
|-
|14
|The hangings of the one side of the gate were fifteen cubits; their pillars three, and their sockets three.
|
|
|-
|15
|And for the other side of the court gate, on this hand and that hand, were hangings of fifteen cubits; their pillars three, and their sockets three.
|
|
|-
|16
|All the hangings of the court round about were of fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|17
|And the sockets for the pillars were of brass; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver; and the overlaying of their chapiters of silver; and all the pillars of the court were filleted with silver.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the hanging for the gate of the court was needlework, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: and twenty cubits was the length, and the height in the breadth was five cubits, answerable to the hangings of the court.
|
|
|-
|19
|And their pillars were four, and their sockets of brass four; their hooks of silver, and the overlaying of their chapiters and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|20
|And all the pins of the tabernacle, and of the court round about, were of brass.
|
|
|-
|21
|This is the sum of the tabernacle, even of the tabernacle of testimony, as it was counted, according to the commandment of Moses, for the service of the Levites, by the hand of Ithamar, son to Aaron the priest.
|
|
|-
|22
|And Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, made all that the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|23
|And with him was Aholiab, son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan, an engraver, and a cunning workman, and an embroiderer in blue, and in purple, and in scarlet, and fine linen.
|
|
|-
|24
|All the gold that was occupied for the work in all the work of the holy place, even the gold of the offering, was twenty and nine talents, and seven hundred and thirty shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
|
|
|-
|25
|And the silver of them that were numbered of the congregation was an hundred talents, and a thousand seven hundred and threescore and fifteen shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
|
|
|-
|26
|A bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.
|
|
|-
|27
|And of the hundred talents of silver were cast the sockets of the sanctuary, and the sockets of the vail; an hundred sockets of the hundred talents, a talent for a socket.
|
|
|-
|28
|And of the thousand seven hundred seventy and five shekels he made hooks for the pillars, and overlaid their chapiters, and filleted them.
|
|
|-
|29
|And the brass of the offering was seventy talents, and two thousand and four hundred shekels.
|
|
|-
|30
|And therewith he made the sockets to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and the brasen altar, and the brasen grate for it, and all the vessels of the altar,
|
|
|-
|31
|And the sockets of the court round about, and the sockets of the court gate, and all the pins of the tabernacle, and all the pins of the court round about.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 39==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|3
|And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.
|
|
|-
|4
|They made shoulderpieces for it, to couple it together: by the two edges was it coupled together.
|
|
|-
|5
|And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|6
|And they wrought onyx stones inclosed in ouches of gold, graven, as signets are graven, with the names of the children of Israel.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he put them on the shoulders of the ephod, that they should be stones for a memorial to the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he made the breastplate of cunning work, like the work of the ephod; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|9
|It was foursquare; they made the breastplate double: a span was the length thereof, and a span the breadth thereof, being doubled.
|
|
|-
|10
|And they set in it four rows of stones: the first row was a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this was the first row.
|
|
|-
|11
|And the second row, an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the third row, a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
|
|
|-
|13
|And the fourth row, a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper: they were inclosed in ouches of gold in their inclosings.
|
|
|-
|14
|And the stones were according to the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, every one with his name, according to the twelve tribes.
|
|
|-
|15
|And they made upon the breastplate chains at the ends, of wreathen work of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|16
|And they made two ouches of gold, and two gold rings; and put the two rings in the two ends of the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|17
|And they put the two wreathen chains of gold in the two rings on the ends of the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the two ends of the two wreathen chains they fastened in the two ouches, and put them on the shoulderpieces of the ephod, before it.
|
|
|-
|19
|And they made two rings of gold, and put them on the two ends of the breastplate, upon the border of it, which was on the side of the ephod inward.
|
|
|-
|20
|And they made two other golden rings, and put them on the two sides of the ephod underneath, toward the forepart of it, over against the other coupling thereof, above the curious girdle of the ephod.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they did bind the breastplate by his rings unto the rings of the ephod with a lace of blue, that it might be above the curious girdle of the ephod, and that the breastplate might not be loosed from the ephod; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he made the robe of the ephod of woven work, all of blue.
|
|
|-
|23
|And there was an hole in the midst of the robe, as the hole of an habergeon, with a band round about the hole, that it should not rend.
|
|
|-
|24
|And they made upon the hems of the robe pomegranates of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen.
|
|
|-
|25
|And they made bells of pure gold, and put the bells between the pomegranates upon the hem of the robe, round about between the pomegranates;
|
|
|-
|26
|A bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate, round about the hem of the robe to minister in; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|27
|And they made coats of fine linen of woven work for Aaron, and for his sons,
|
|
|-
|28
|And a mitre of fine linen, and goodly bonnets of fine linen, and linen breeches of fine twined linen,
|
|
|-
|29
|And a girdle of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, of needlework; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And they made the plate of the holy crown of pure gold, and wrote upon it a writing, like to the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
|
|
|-
|31
|And they tied unto it a lace of blue, to fasten it on high upon the mitre; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|32
|Thus was all the work of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation finished: and the children of Israel did according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did they.
|
|
|-
|33
|And they brought the tabernacle unto Moses, the tent, and all his furniture, his taches, his boards, his bars, and his pillars, and his sockets,
|
|
|-
|34
|And the covering of rams' skins dyed red, and the covering of badgers' skins, and the vail of the covering,
|
|
|-
|35
|The ark of the testimony, and the staves thereof, and the mercy seat,
|
|
|-
|36
|The table, and all the vessels thereof, and the shewbread,
|
|
|-
|37
|The pure candlestick, with the lamps thereof, even with the lamps to be set in order, and all the vessels thereof, and the oil for light,
|
|
|-
|38
|And the golden altar, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the tabernacle door,
|
|
|-
|39
|The brasen altar, and his grate of brass, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,
|
|
|-
|40
|The hangings of the court, his pillars, and his sockets, and the hanging for the court gate, his cords, and his pins, and all the vessels of the service of the tabernacle, for the tent of the congregation,
|
|
|-
|41
|The cloths of service to do service in the holy place, and the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and his sons' garments, to minister in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|42
|According to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so the children of Israel made all the work.
|
|
|-
|43
|And Moses did look upon all the work, and, behold, they have done it as the LORD had commanded, even so had they done it: and Moses blessed them.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 40==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
|
|
|-
|2
|On the first day of the first month shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|3
|And thou shalt put therein the ark of the testimony, and cover the ark with the vail.
|
|
|-
|4
|And thou shalt bring in the table, and set in order the things that are to be set in order upon it; and thou shalt bring in the candlestick, and light the lamps thereof.
|
|
|-
|5
|And thou shalt set the altar of gold for the incense before the ark of the testimony, and put the hanging of the door to the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|6
|And thou shalt set the altar of the burnt offering before the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|7
|And thou shalt set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and shalt put water therein.
|
|
|-
|8
|And thou shalt set up the court round about, and hang up the hanging at the court gate.
|
|
|-
|9
|And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is therein, and shalt hallow it, and all the vessels thereof: and it shall be holy.
|
|
|-
|10
|And thou shalt anoint the altar of the burnt offering, and all his vessels, and sanctify the altar: and it shall be an altar most holy.
|
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|-
|11
|And thou shalt anoint the laver and his foot, and sanctify it.
|
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|-
|12
|And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
|
|
|-
|13
|And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|14
|And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:
|
|
|-
|15
|And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.
|
|
|-
|16
|Thus did Moses: according to all that the LORD commanded him, so did he.
|
|
|-
|17
|And it came to pass in the first month in the second year, on the first day of the month, that the tabernacle was reared up.
|
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|-
|18
|And Moses reared up the tabernacle, and fastened his sockets, and set up the boards thereof, and put in the bars thereof, and reared up his pillars.
|
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|-
|19
|And he spread abroad the tent over the tabernacle, and put the covering of the tent above upon it; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
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|-
|20
|And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark:
|
|
|-
|21
|And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and set up the vail of the covering, and covered the ark of the testimony; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he put the table in the tent of the congregation, upon the side of the tabernacle northward, without the vail.
|
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|-
|23
|And he set the bread in order upon it before the LORD; as the LORD had commanded Moses.
|
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|-
|24
|And he put the candlestick in the tent of the congregation, over against the table, on the side of the tabernacle southward.
|
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|-
|25
|And he lighted the lamps before the LORD; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
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|-
|26
|And he put the golden altar in the tent of the congregation before the vail:
|
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|-
|27
|And he burnt sweet incense thereon; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he set up the hanging at the door of the tabernacle.
|
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|-
|29
|And he put the altar of burnt offering by the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation, and offered upon it the burnt offering and the meat offering; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And he set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and put water there, to wash withal.
|
|
|-
|31
|And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat:
|
|
|-
|32
|When they went into the tent of the congregation, and when they came near unto the altar, they washed; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he reared up the court round about the tabernacle and the altar, and set up the hanging of the court gate. So Moses finished the work.
|
|
|-
|34
|Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|35
|And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|36
|And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys:
|
|
|-
|37
|But if the cloud were not taken up, then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up.
|
|
|-
|38
|For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category: Conservative Bible]]

Exodus 34-40 (Translated)

2013-02-23T13:57:03Z

Onestone: Slightly amended the sentence, which didn't run properly.

==Chapter 34==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
|The LORD said to Moses: make two stone tablets like the previous ones; I will write on the tablets the things that were on the the first tablets that you broke.
|
|-
|2
|And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
|Be prepared for the morning, and go in the morning to mount Sinai, and on top of it you will show yourself to me.
|
|-
|3
|And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
|No one is to come with you, and no one should be seen next to the mountain, and the herds and the cattle should also not come close to the mountain.
|
|-
|4
|And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
|He made two stone tablets like the previous ones, and in the morning Moses woke up and went to mount Sinai as the LORD told him to, and he carried in his hands the two stone tablets.
|
|-
|5
|And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
|And the LORD came down in a cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
|
|-
|6
|And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
|And the LORD passed in front of his face and said: The LORD, The LORD, merciful and compassionate, patient, and full of grace and truth,
|
|-
|7
|Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
|Keeping the grace for thousands, who forgives wrong deeds and crime and sin, who will punish the guilty, who will make the sons and the sons of the sons, the third and fourth generations, pay for the sins of their fathers.
|
|-
|8
|And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
|And Moses quickly bowed down and worshiped.
|
|-
|9
|And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
|And he said, if I am liked by you, my LORD, walk among us, because the people are ungrateful, and forgive our sins and misdeeds, and make us your property.
|
|-
|10
|And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.
|And God said I will make a covenant with all of your nation and I will do wonders which have not been done before in any place or nation and all the people of whom you are a part of shall see the acts of the LORD, for the deed I am doing with you is tremendous.
|
|-
|11
|Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
|Obey what I command you today. I will banish the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite.
|
|-
|12
|Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
|Be careful not to ally with those sitting in the land you are about to come to, so they will not be an obstacle to you.
|
|-
|13
|But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
|For you will destroy their altars, break their tombstones, and remove their idols.
|
|-
|14
|For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
|This is because you are not supposed worship any other god, because the name of the LORD is jealous and he is a jealous God.
|
|-
|15
|Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods , and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
|This is meant to prevent you from allying with those sitting in the land, who will whore after their gods and will sacrifice to their gods, and one will call you and you will eat his sacrifice.
|
|-
|16
|And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
|You will take their daughters for your sons, and their daughters will whore after their gods and they will whore your sons to their gods.
|
|-
|17
|Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
|You will not make for yourself a mask idol.
|
|-
|18
|The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
|You will celebrate the holiday of the unleavened bread for seven days in which you will eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, during the month of the spring. This is because during the month of the spring you came out of Egypt.
|
|-
|19
|All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
|
|
|-
|20
|But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
|
|
|-
|21
|Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
|
|
|-
|22
|And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
|
|
|-
|23
|Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.
|
|
|-
|24
|For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
|
|
|-
|25
|Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
|
|
|-
|26
|The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
|
|
|-
|27
|And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
|
|
|-
|29
|And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
|
|There is considerable debate over the translation of "shone" in this passage, as well as the next (34:30). The original Hebrew may have meant "horned."[http://galusaustralis.com/2009/09/1608/horny-jew-whats-the-deal-with-michelangelos-moses/]
|-
|30
|And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
|
|
|-
|31
|And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
|
|
|-
|32
|And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
|
|
|-
|33
|And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
|
|
|-
|34
|But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
|
|
|-
|35
|And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 35==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them.
|
|
|-
|2
|Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
|
|
|-
|3
|Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
|
|
|-
|4
|And Moses spake unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD commanded, saying,
|
|
|-
|5
|Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,
|
|
|-
|6
|And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,
|
|
|-
|7
|And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
|
|
|-
|8
|And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,
|
|
|-
|9
|And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|10
|And every wise hearted among you shall come, and make all that the LORD hath commanded;
|
|
|-
|11
|The tabernacle, his tent, and his covering, his taches, and his boards, his bars, his pillars, and his sockets,
|
|
|-
|12
|The ark, and the staves thereof, with the mercy seat, and the vail of the covering,
|
|
|-
|13
|The table, and his staves, and all his vessels, and the shewbread,
|
|
|-
|14
|The candlestick also for the light, and his furniture, and his lamps, with the oil for the light,
|
|
|-
|15
|And the incense altar, and his staves, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the door at the entering in of the tabernacle,
|
|
|-
|16
|The altar of burnt offering, with his brasen grate, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,
|
|
|-
|17
|The hangings of the court, his pillars, and their sockets, and the hanging for the door of the court,
|
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|-
|18
|The pins of the tabernacle, and the pins of the court, and their cords,
|
|
|-
|19
|The cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|20
|And all the congregation of the children of Israel departed from the presence of Moses.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.
|
|
|-
|22
|And they came, both men and women, as many as were willing hearted, and brought bracelets, and earrings, and rings, and tablets, all jewels of gold: and every man that offered offered an offering of gold unto the LORD.
|
|
|-
|23
|And every man, with whom was found blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, and red skins of rams, and badgers' skins, brought them.
|
|
|-
|24
|Every one that did offer an offering of silver and brass brought the LORD's offering: and every man, with whom was found shittim wood for any work of the service, brought it.
|
|
|-
|25
|And all the women that were wise hearted did spin with their hands, and brought that which they had spun, both of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine linen.
|
|
|-
|26
|And all the women whose heart stirred them up in wisdom spun goats' hair.
|
|
|-
|27
|And the rulers brought onyx stones, and stones to be set, for the ephod, and for the breastplate;
|
|
|-
|28
|And spice, and oil for the light, and for the anointing oil, and for the sweet incense.
|
|
|-
|29
|The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the LORD, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the LORD had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
|
|
|-
|31
|And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
|
|
|-
|32
|And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
|
|
|-
|33
|And in the cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, both he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan.
|
|
|-
|35
|Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 36==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then wrought Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whom the LORD put wisdom and understanding to know how to work all manner of work for the service of the sanctuary, according to all that the LORD had commanded.
|
|
|-
|2
|And Moses called Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whose heart the LORD had put wisdom, even every one whose heart stirred him up to come unto the work to do it:
|
|
|-
|3
|And they received of Moses all the offering, which the children of Israel had brought for the work of the service of the sanctuary, to make it withal. And they brought yet unto him free offerings every morning.
|
|
|-
|4
|And all the wise men, that wrought all the work of the sanctuary, came every man from his work which they made;
|
|
|-
|5
|And they spake unto Moses, saying, The people bring much more than enough for the service of the work, which the LORD commanded to make.
|
|
|-
|6
|And Moses gave commandment, and they caused it to be proclaimed throughout the camp, saying, Let neither man nor woman make any more work for the offering of the sanctuary. So the people were restrained from bringing.
|
|
|-
|7
|For the stuff they had was sufficient for all the work to make it, and too much.
|
|
|-
|8
|And every wise hearted man among them that wrought the work of the tabernacle made ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work made he them.
|
|
|-
|9
|The length of one curtain was twenty and eight cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: the curtains were all of one size.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he coupled the five curtains one unto another: and the other five curtains he coupled one unto another.
|
|
|-
|11
|And he made loops of blue on the edge of one curtain from the selvedge in the coupling: likewise he made in the uttermost side of another curtain, in the coupling of the second.
|
|
|-
|12
|Fifty loops made he in one curtain, and fifty loops made he in the edge of the curtain which was in the coupling of the second: the loops held one curtain to another.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he made fifty taches of gold, and coupled the curtains one unto another with the taches: so it became one tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|14
|And he made curtains of goats' hair for the tent over the tabernacle: eleven curtains he made them.
|
|
|-
|15
|The length of one curtain was thirty cubits, and four cubits was the breadth of one curtain: the eleven curtains were of one size.
|
|
|-
|16
|And he coupled five curtains by themselves, and six curtains by themselves.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he made fifty loops upon the uttermost edge of the curtain in the coupling, and fifty loops made he upon the edge of the curtain which coupleth the second.
|
|
|-
|18
|And he made fifty taches of brass to couple the tent together, that it might be one.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he made a covering for the tent of rams' skins dyed red, and a covering of badgers' skins above that.
|
|
|-
|20
|And he made boards for the tabernacle of shittim wood, standing up.
|
|
|-
|21
|The length of a board was ten cubits, and the breadth of a board one cubit and a half.
|
|
|-
|22
|One board had two tenons, equally distant one from another: thus did he make for all the boards of the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he made boards for the tabernacle; twenty boards for the south side southward:
|
|
|-
|24
|And forty sockets of silver he made under the twenty boards; two sockets under one board for his two tenons, and two sockets under another board for his two tenons.
|
|
|-
|25
|And for the other side of the tabernacle, which is toward the north corner, he made twenty boards,
|
|
|-
|26
|And their forty sockets of silver; two sockets under one board, and two sockets under another board.
|
|
|-
|27
|And for the sides of the tabernacle westward he made six boards.
|
|
|-
|28
|And two boards made he for the corners of the tabernacle in the two sides.
|
|
|-
|29
|And they were coupled beneath, and coupled together at the head thereof, to one ring: thus he did to both of them in both the corners.
|
|
|-
|30
|And there were eight boards; and their sockets were sixteen sockets of silver, under every board two sockets.
|
|
|-
|31
|And he made bars of shittim wood; five for the boards of the one side of the tabernacle,
|
|
|-
|32
|And five bars for the boards of the other side of the tabernacle, and five bars for the boards of the tabernacle for the sides westward.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he made the middle bar to shoot through the boards from the one end to the other.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he overlaid the boards with gold, and made their rings of gold to be places for the bars, and overlaid the bars with gold.
|
|
|-
|35
|And he made a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: with cherubims made he it of cunning work.
|
|
|-
|36
|And he made thereunto four pillars of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold: their hooks were of gold; and he cast for them four sockets of silver.
|
|
|-
|37
|And he made an hanging for the tabernacle door of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, of needlework;
|
|
|-
|38
|And the five pillars of it with their hooks: and he overlaid their chapiters and their fillets with gold: but their five sockets were of brass.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 37==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it:
|
|
|-
|2
|And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he cast for it four rings of gold, to be set by the four corners of it; even two rings upon the one side of it, and two rings upon the other side of it.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
|
|
|-
|5
|And he put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, to bear the ark.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat;
|
|
|-
|8
|One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
|
|
|-
|9
|And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he made the table of shittim wood: two cubits was the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof:
|
|
|-
|11
|And he overlaid it with pure gold, and made thereunto a crown of gold round about.
|
|
|-
|12
|Also he made thereunto a border of an handbreadth round about; and made a crown of gold for the border thereof round about.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he cast for it four rings of gold, and put the rings upon the four corners that were in the four feet thereof.
|
|
|-
|14
|Over against the border were the rings, the places for the staves to bear the table.
|
|
|-
|15
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold, to bear the table.
|
|
|-
|16
|And he made the vessels which were upon the table, his dishes, and his spoons, and his bowls, and his covers to cover withal, of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he made the candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work made he the candlestick; his shaft, and his branch, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, were of the same:
|
|
|-
|18
|And six branches going out of the sides thereof; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side thereof, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side thereof:
|
|
|-
|19
|Three bowls made after the fashion of almonds in one branch, a knop and a flower; and three bowls made like almonds in another branch, a knop and a flower: so throughout the six branches going out of the candlestick.
|
|
|-
|20
|And in the candlestick were four bowls made like almonds, his knops, and his flowers:
|
|
|-
|21
|And a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches going out of it.
|
|
|-
|22
|Their knops and their branches were of the same: all of it was one beaten work of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he made his seven lamps, and his snuffers, and his snuffdishes, of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|24
|Of a talent of pure gold made he it, and all the vessels thereof.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he made the incense altar of shittim wood: the length of it was a cubit, and the breadth of it a cubit; it was foursquare; and two cubits was the height of it; the horns thereof were of the same.
|
|
|-
|26
|And he overlaid it with pure gold, both the top of it, and the sides thereof round about, and the horns of it: also he made unto it a crown of gold round about.
|
|
|-
|27
|And he made two rings of gold for it under the crown thereof, by the two corners of it, upon the two sides thereof, to be places for the staves to bear it withal.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he made the holy anointing oil, and the pure incense of sweet spices, according to the work of the apothecary.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 38==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he made the altar of burnt offering of shittim wood: five cubits was the length thereof, and five cubits the breadth thereof; it was foursquare; and three cubits the height thereof.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he made the horns thereof on the four corners of it; the horns thereof were of the same: and he overlaid it with brass.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he made all the vessels of the altar, the pots, and the shovels, and the basons, and the fleshhooks, and the firepans: all the vessels thereof made he of brass.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he made for the altar a brasen grate of network under the compass thereof beneath unto the midst of it.
|
|
|-
|5
|And he cast four rings for the four ends of the grate of brass, to be places for the staves.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with brass.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he put the staves into the rings on the sides of the altar, to bear it withal; he made the altar hollow with boards.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he made the laver of brass, and the foot of it of brass, of the lookingglasses of the women assembling, which assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|9
|And he made the court: on the south side southward the hangings of the court were of fine twined linen, an hundred cubits:
|
|
|-
|10
|Their pillars were twenty, and their brasen sockets twenty; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets were of silver.
|
|
|-
|11
|And for the north side the hangings were an hundred cubits, their pillars were twenty, and their sockets of brass twenty; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|12
|And for the west side were hangings of fifty cubits, their pillars ten, and their sockets ten; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|13
|And for the east side eastward fifty cubits.
|
|
|-
|14
|The hangings of the one side of the gate were fifteen cubits; their pillars three, and their sockets three.
|
|
|-
|15
|And for the other side of the court gate, on this hand and that hand, were hangings of fifteen cubits; their pillars three, and their sockets three.
|
|
|-
|16
|All the hangings of the court round about were of fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|17
|And the sockets for the pillars were of brass; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver; and the overlaying of their chapiters of silver; and all the pillars of the court were filleted with silver.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the hanging for the gate of the court was needlework, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: and twenty cubits was the length, and the height in the breadth was five cubits, answerable to the hangings of the court.
|
|
|-
|19
|And their pillars were four, and their sockets of brass four; their hooks of silver, and the overlaying of their chapiters and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|20
|And all the pins of the tabernacle, and of the court round about, were of brass.
|
|
|-
|21
|This is the sum of the tabernacle, even of the tabernacle of testimony, as it was counted, according to the commandment of Moses, for the service of the Levites, by the hand of Ithamar, son to Aaron the priest.
|
|
|-
|22
|And Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, made all that the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|23
|And with him was Aholiab, son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan, an engraver, and a cunning workman, and an embroiderer in blue, and in purple, and in scarlet, and fine linen.
|
|
|-
|24
|All the gold that was occupied for the work in all the work of the holy place, even the gold of the offering, was twenty and nine talents, and seven hundred and thirty shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
|
|
|-
|25
|And the silver of them that were numbered of the congregation was an hundred talents, and a thousand seven hundred and threescore and fifteen shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
|
|
|-
|26
|A bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.
|
|
|-
|27
|And of the hundred talents of silver were cast the sockets of the sanctuary, and the sockets of the vail; an hundred sockets of the hundred talents, a talent for a socket.
|
|
|-
|28
|And of the thousand seven hundred seventy and five shekels he made hooks for the pillars, and overlaid their chapiters, and filleted them.
|
|
|-
|29
|And the brass of the offering was seventy talents, and two thousand and four hundred shekels.
|
|
|-
|30
|And therewith he made the sockets to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and the brasen altar, and the brasen grate for it, and all the vessels of the altar,
|
|
|-
|31
|And the sockets of the court round about, and the sockets of the court gate, and all the pins of the tabernacle, and all the pins of the court round about.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 39==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|3
|And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.
|
|
|-
|4
|They made shoulderpieces for it, to couple it together: by the two edges was it coupled together.
|
|
|-
|5
|And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|6
|And they wrought onyx stones inclosed in ouches of gold, graven, as signets are graven, with the names of the children of Israel.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he put them on the shoulders of the ephod, that they should be stones for a memorial to the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he made the breastplate of cunning work, like the work of the ephod; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|9
|It was foursquare; they made the breastplate double: a span was the length thereof, and a span the breadth thereof, being doubled.
|
|
|-
|10
|And they set in it four rows of stones: the first row was a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this was the first row.
|
|
|-
|11
|And the second row, an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the third row, a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
|
|
|-
|13
|And the fourth row, a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper: they were inclosed in ouches of gold in their inclosings.
|
|
|-
|14
|And the stones were according to the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, every one with his name, according to the twelve tribes.
|
|
|-
|15
|And they made upon the breastplate chains at the ends, of wreathen work of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|16
|And they made two ouches of gold, and two gold rings; and put the two rings in the two ends of the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|17
|And they put the two wreathen chains of gold in the two rings on the ends of the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the two ends of the two wreathen chains they fastened in the two ouches, and put them on the shoulderpieces of the ephod, before it.
|
|
|-
|19
|And they made two rings of gold, and put them on the two ends of the breastplate, upon the border of it, which was on the side of the ephod inward.
|
|
|-
|20
|And they made two other golden rings, and put them on the two sides of the ephod underneath, toward the forepart of it, over against the other coupling thereof, above the curious girdle of the ephod.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they did bind the breastplate by his rings unto the rings of the ephod with a lace of blue, that it might be above the curious girdle of the ephod, and that the breastplate might not be loosed from the ephod; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he made the robe of the ephod of woven work, all of blue.
|
|
|-
|23
|And there was an hole in the midst of the robe, as the hole of an habergeon, with a band round about the hole, that it should not rend.
|
|
|-
|24
|And they made upon the hems of the robe pomegranates of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen.
|
|
|-
|25
|And they made bells of pure gold, and put the bells between the pomegranates upon the hem of the robe, round about between the pomegranates;
|
|
|-
|26
|A bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate, round about the hem of the robe to minister in; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|27
|And they made coats of fine linen of woven work for Aaron, and for his sons,
|
|
|-
|28
|And a mitre of fine linen, and goodly bonnets of fine linen, and linen breeches of fine twined linen,
|
|
|-
|29
|And a girdle of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, of needlework; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And they made the plate of the holy crown of pure gold, and wrote upon it a writing, like to the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
|
|
|-
|31
|And they tied unto it a lace of blue, to fasten it on high upon the mitre; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|32
|Thus was all the work of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation finished: and the children of Israel did according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did they.
|
|
|-
|33
|And they brought the tabernacle unto Moses, the tent, and all his furniture, his taches, his boards, his bars, and his pillars, and his sockets,
|
|
|-
|34
|And the covering of rams' skins dyed red, and the covering of badgers' skins, and the vail of the covering,
|
|
|-
|35
|The ark of the testimony, and the staves thereof, and the mercy seat,
|
|
|-
|36
|The table, and all the vessels thereof, and the shewbread,
|
|
|-
|37
|The pure candlestick, with the lamps thereof, even with the lamps to be set in order, and all the vessels thereof, and the oil for light,
|
|
|-
|38
|And the golden altar, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the tabernacle door,
|
|
|-
|39
|The brasen altar, and his grate of brass, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,
|
|
|-
|40
|The hangings of the court, his pillars, and his sockets, and the hanging for the court gate, his cords, and his pins, and all the vessels of the service of the tabernacle, for the tent of the congregation,
|
|
|-
|41
|The cloths of service to do service in the holy place, and the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and his sons' garments, to minister in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|42
|According to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so the children of Israel made all the work.
|
|
|-
|43
|And Moses did look upon all the work, and, behold, they have done it as the LORD had commanded, even so had they done it: and Moses blessed them.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 40==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
|
|
|-
|2
|On the first day of the first month shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|3
|And thou shalt put therein the ark of the testimony, and cover the ark with the vail.
|
|
|-
|4
|And thou shalt bring in the table, and set in order the things that are to be set in order upon it; and thou shalt bring in the candlestick, and light the lamps thereof.
|
|
|-
|5
|And thou shalt set the altar of gold for the incense before the ark of the testimony, and put the hanging of the door to the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|6
|And thou shalt set the altar of the burnt offering before the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|7
|And thou shalt set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and shalt put water therein.
|
|
|-
|8
|And thou shalt set up the court round about, and hang up the hanging at the court gate.
|
|
|-
|9
|And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is therein, and shalt hallow it, and all the vessels thereof: and it shall be holy.
|
|
|-
|10
|And thou shalt anoint the altar of the burnt offering, and all his vessels, and sanctify the altar: and it shall be an altar most holy.
|
|
|-
|11
|And thou shalt anoint the laver and his foot, and sanctify it.
|
|
|-
|12
|And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
|
|
|-
|13
|And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|14
|And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:
|
|
|-
|15
|And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.
|
|
|-
|16
|Thus did Moses: according to all that the LORD commanded him, so did he.
|
|
|-
|17
|And it came to pass in the first month in the second year, on the first day of the month, that the tabernacle was reared up.
|
|
|-
|18
|And Moses reared up the tabernacle, and fastened his sockets, and set up the boards thereof, and put in the bars thereof, and reared up his pillars.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he spread abroad the tent over the tabernacle, and put the covering of the tent above upon it; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|20
|And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark:
|
|
|-
|21
|And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and set up the vail of the covering, and covered the ark of the testimony; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he put the table in the tent of the congregation, upon the side of the tabernacle northward, without the vail.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he set the bread in order upon it before the LORD; as the LORD had commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|24
|And he put the candlestick in the tent of the congregation, over against the table, on the side of the tabernacle southward.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he lighted the lamps before the LORD; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|26
|And he put the golden altar in the tent of the congregation before the vail:
|
|
|-
|27
|And he burnt sweet incense thereon; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he set up the hanging at the door of the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he put the altar of burnt offering by the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation, and offered upon it the burnt offering and the meat offering; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And he set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and put water there, to wash withal.
|
|
|-
|31
|And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat:
|
|
|-
|32
|When they went into the tent of the congregation, and when they came near unto the altar, they washed; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he reared up the court round about the tabernacle and the altar, and set up the hanging of the court gate. So Moses finished the work.
|
|
|-
|34
|Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|35
|And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|36
|And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys:
|
|
|-
|37
|But if the cloud were not taken up, then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up.
|
|
|-
|38
|For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category: Conservative Bible]]

Exodus 34-40 (Translated)

2013-02-23T13:55:28Z

Onestone: This must be a misunderstanding. God doesn't tell Moses to banish the Amorite and the Canaanite etc., He tells him that He will do that Himself.

==Chapter 34==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
|The LORD said to Moses: make two stone tablets like the previous ones; I will write on the tablets the things that were on the the first tablets that you broke.
|
|-
|2
|And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
|Be prepared for the morning, and go in the morning to mount Sinai, and on top of it you will show yourself to me.
|
|-
|3
|And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
|No one is to come with you, and no one should be seen next to the mountain, and the herds and the cattle should also not come close to the mountain.
|
|-
|4
|And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
|He made two stone tablets like the previous ones, and in the morning Moses woke up and went to mount Sinai as the LORD told him to, and he carried in his hands the two stone tablets.
|
|-
|5
|And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
|And the LORD came down in a cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
|
|-
|6
|And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
|And the LORD passed in front of his face and said: The LORD, The LORD, merciful and compassionate, patient, and full of grace and truth,
|
|-
|7
|Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
|Keeping the grace for thousands, who forgives wrong deeds and crime and sin, who will punish the guilty, who will make the sons and the sons of the sons, the third and fourth generations, pay for the sins of their fathers.
|
|-
|8
|And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
|And Moses quickly bowed down and worshiped.
|
|-
|9
|And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
|And he said, if I am liked by you, my LORD, walk among us, because the people are ungrateful, and forgive our sins and misdeeds, and make us your property.
|
|-
|10
|And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.
|And God said I will make a covenant with all of your nation and I will do wonders which have not been done before in any place or nation and all the people of whom you are a part of shall see the acts of the LORD, for the deed I am doing with you is tremendous.
|
|-
|11
|Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
|Obey what I command you today. I will banish the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite.
|
|-
|12
|Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
|Guard yourself so will not ally with those sitting in the land you are about to come to, so they will not be an obstacle to you.
|
|-
|13
|But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
|For you will destroy their altars, break their tombstones, and remove their idols.
|
|-
|14
|For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
|This is because you are not supposed worship any other god, because the name of the LORD is jealous and he is a jealous God.
|
|-
|15
|Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods , and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
|This is meant to prevent you from allying with those sitting in the land, who will whore after their gods and will sacrifice to their gods, and one will call you and you will eat his sacrifice.
|
|-
|16
|And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
|You will take their daughters for your sons, and their daughters will whore after their gods and they will whore your sons to their gods.
|
|-
|17
|Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
|You will not make for yourself a mask idol.
|
|-
|18
|The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
|You will celebrate the holiday of the unleavened bread for seven days in which you will eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, during the month of the spring. This is because during the month of the spring you came out of Egypt.
|
|-
|19
|All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
|
|
|-
|20
|But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
|
|
|-
|21
|Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
|
|
|-
|22
|And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
|
|
|-
|23
|Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.
|
|
|-
|24
|For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
|
|
|-
|25
|Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
|
|
|-
|26
|The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
|
|
|-
|27
|And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
|
|
|-
|29
|And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
|
|There is considerable debate over the translation of "shone" in this passage, as well as the next (34:30). The original Hebrew may have meant "horned."[http://galusaustralis.com/2009/09/1608/horny-jew-whats-the-deal-with-michelangelos-moses/]
|-
|30
|And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
|
|
|-
|31
|And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
|
|
|-
|32
|And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
|
|
|-
|33
|And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
|
|
|-
|34
|But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
|
|
|-
|35
|And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 35==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them.
|
|
|-
|2
|Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
|
|
|-
|3
|Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
|
|
|-
|4
|And Moses spake unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD commanded, saying,
|
|
|-
|5
|Take ye from among you an offering unto the LORD: whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD; gold, and silver, and brass,
|
|
|-
|6
|And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,
|
|
|-
|7
|And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and shittim wood,
|
|
|-
|8
|And oil for the light, and spices for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense,
|
|
|-
|9
|And onyx stones, and stones to be set for the ephod, and for the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|10
|And every wise hearted among you shall come, and make all that the LORD hath commanded;
|
|
|-
|11
|The tabernacle, his tent, and his covering, his taches, and his boards, his bars, his pillars, and his sockets,
|
|
|-
|12
|The ark, and the staves thereof, with the mercy seat, and the vail of the covering,
|
|
|-
|13
|The table, and his staves, and all his vessels, and the shewbread,
|
|
|-
|14
|The candlestick also for the light, and his furniture, and his lamps, with the oil for the light,
|
|
|-
|15
|And the incense altar, and his staves, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the door at the entering in of the tabernacle,
|
|
|-
|16
|The altar of burnt offering, with his brasen grate, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,
|
|
|-
|17
|The hangings of the court, his pillars, and their sockets, and the hanging for the door of the court,
|
|
|-
|18
|The pins of the tabernacle, and the pins of the court, and their cords,
|
|
|-
|19
|The cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments of his sons, to minister in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|20
|And all the congregation of the children of Israel departed from the presence of Moses.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD's offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.
|
|
|-
|22
|And they came, both men and women, as many as were willing hearted, and brought bracelets, and earrings, and rings, and tablets, all jewels of gold: and every man that offered offered an offering of gold unto the LORD.
|
|
|-
|23
|And every man, with whom was found blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair, and red skins of rams, and badgers' skins, brought them.
|
|
|-
|24
|Every one that did offer an offering of silver and brass brought the LORD's offering: and every man, with whom was found shittim wood for any work of the service, brought it.
|
|
|-
|25
|And all the women that were wise hearted did spin with their hands, and brought that which they had spun, both of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine linen.
|
|
|-
|26
|And all the women whose heart stirred them up in wisdom spun goats' hair.
|
|
|-
|27
|And the rulers brought onyx stones, and stones to be set, for the ephod, and for the breastplate;
|
|
|-
|28
|And spice, and oil for the light, and for the anointing oil, and for the sweet incense.
|
|
|-
|29
|The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the LORD, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the LORD had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
|
|
|-
|31
|And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
|
|
|-
|32
|And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
|
|
|-
|33
|And in the cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, both he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan.
|
|
|-
|35
|Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 36==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then wrought Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whom the LORD put wisdom and understanding to know how to work all manner of work for the service of the sanctuary, according to all that the LORD had commanded.
|
|
|-
|2
|And Moses called Bezaleel and Aholiab, and every wise hearted man, in whose heart the LORD had put wisdom, even every one whose heart stirred him up to come unto the work to do it:
|
|
|-
|3
|And they received of Moses all the offering, which the children of Israel had brought for the work of the service of the sanctuary, to make it withal. And they brought yet unto him free offerings every morning.
|
|
|-
|4
|And all the wise men, that wrought all the work of the sanctuary, came every man from his work which they made;
|
|
|-
|5
|And they spake unto Moses, saying, The people bring much more than enough for the service of the work, which the LORD commanded to make.
|
|
|-
|6
|And Moses gave commandment, and they caused it to be proclaimed throughout the camp, saying, Let neither man nor woman make any more work for the offering of the sanctuary. So the people were restrained from bringing.
|
|
|-
|7
|For the stuff they had was sufficient for all the work to make it, and too much.
|
|
|-
|8
|And every wise hearted man among them that wrought the work of the tabernacle made ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with cherubims of cunning work made he them.
|
|
|-
|9
|The length of one curtain was twenty and eight cubits, and the breadth of one curtain four cubits: the curtains were all of one size.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he coupled the five curtains one unto another: and the other five curtains he coupled one unto another.
|
|
|-
|11
|And he made loops of blue on the edge of one curtain from the selvedge in the coupling: likewise he made in the uttermost side of another curtain, in the coupling of the second.
|
|
|-
|12
|Fifty loops made he in one curtain, and fifty loops made he in the edge of the curtain which was in the coupling of the second: the loops held one curtain to another.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he made fifty taches of gold, and coupled the curtains one unto another with the taches: so it became one tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|14
|And he made curtains of goats' hair for the tent over the tabernacle: eleven curtains he made them.
|
|
|-
|15
|The length of one curtain was thirty cubits, and four cubits was the breadth of one curtain: the eleven curtains were of one size.
|
|
|-
|16
|And he coupled five curtains by themselves, and six curtains by themselves.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he made fifty loops upon the uttermost edge of the curtain in the coupling, and fifty loops made he upon the edge of the curtain which coupleth the second.
|
|
|-
|18
|And he made fifty taches of brass to couple the tent together, that it might be one.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he made a covering for the tent of rams' skins dyed red, and a covering of badgers' skins above that.
|
|
|-
|20
|And he made boards for the tabernacle of shittim wood, standing up.
|
|
|-
|21
|The length of a board was ten cubits, and the breadth of a board one cubit and a half.
|
|
|-
|22
|One board had two tenons, equally distant one from another: thus did he make for all the boards of the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he made boards for the tabernacle; twenty boards for the south side southward:
|
|
|-
|24
|And forty sockets of silver he made under the twenty boards; two sockets under one board for his two tenons, and two sockets under another board for his two tenons.
|
|
|-
|25
|And for the other side of the tabernacle, which is toward the north corner, he made twenty boards,
|
|
|-
|26
|And their forty sockets of silver; two sockets under one board, and two sockets under another board.
|
|
|-
|27
|And for the sides of the tabernacle westward he made six boards.
|
|
|-
|28
|And two boards made he for the corners of the tabernacle in the two sides.
|
|
|-
|29
|And they were coupled beneath, and coupled together at the head thereof, to one ring: thus he did to both of them in both the corners.
|
|
|-
|30
|And there were eight boards; and their sockets were sixteen sockets of silver, under every board two sockets.
|
|
|-
|31
|And he made bars of shittim wood; five for the boards of the one side of the tabernacle,
|
|
|-
|32
|And five bars for the boards of the other side of the tabernacle, and five bars for the boards of the tabernacle for the sides westward.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he made the middle bar to shoot through the boards from the one end to the other.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he overlaid the boards with gold, and made their rings of gold to be places for the bars, and overlaid the bars with gold.
|
|
|-
|35
|And he made a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: with cherubims made he it of cunning work.
|
|
|-
|36
|And he made thereunto four pillars of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold: their hooks were of gold; and he cast for them four sockets of silver.
|
|
|-
|37
|And he made an hanging for the tabernacle door of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen, of needlework;
|
|
|-
|38
|And the five pillars of it with their hooks: and he overlaid their chapiters and their fillets with gold: but their five sockets were of brass.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 37==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it:
|
|
|-
|2
|And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he cast for it four rings of gold, to be set by the four corners of it; even two rings upon the one side of it, and two rings upon the other side of it.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
|
|
|-
|5
|And he put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, to bear the ark.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat;
|
|
|-
|8
|One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
|
|
|-
|9
|And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he made the table of shittim wood: two cubits was the length thereof, and a cubit the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof:
|
|
|-
|11
|And he overlaid it with pure gold, and made thereunto a crown of gold round about.
|
|
|-
|12
|Also he made thereunto a border of an handbreadth round about; and made a crown of gold for the border thereof round about.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he cast for it four rings of gold, and put the rings upon the four corners that were in the four feet thereof.
|
|
|-
|14
|Over against the border were the rings, the places for the staves to bear the table.
|
|
|-
|15
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold, to bear the table.
|
|
|-
|16
|And he made the vessels which were upon the table, his dishes, and his spoons, and his bowls, and his covers to cover withal, of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he made the candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work made he the candlestick; his shaft, and his branch, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, were of the same:
|
|
|-
|18
|And six branches going out of the sides thereof; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side thereof, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side thereof:
|
|
|-
|19
|Three bowls made after the fashion of almonds in one branch, a knop and a flower; and three bowls made like almonds in another branch, a knop and a flower: so throughout the six branches going out of the candlestick.
|
|
|-
|20
|And in the candlestick were four bowls made like almonds, his knops, and his flowers:
|
|
|-
|21
|And a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches going out of it.
|
|
|-
|22
|Their knops and their branches were of the same: all of it was one beaten work of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he made his seven lamps, and his snuffers, and his snuffdishes, of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|24
|Of a talent of pure gold made he it, and all the vessels thereof.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he made the incense altar of shittim wood: the length of it was a cubit, and the breadth of it a cubit; it was foursquare; and two cubits was the height of it; the horns thereof were of the same.
|
|
|-
|26
|And he overlaid it with pure gold, both the top of it, and the sides thereof round about, and the horns of it: also he made unto it a crown of gold round about.
|
|
|-
|27
|And he made two rings of gold for it under the crown thereof, by the two corners of it, upon the two sides thereof, to be places for the staves to bear it withal.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he made the holy anointing oil, and the pure incense of sweet spices, according to the work of the apothecary.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 38==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he made the altar of burnt offering of shittim wood: five cubits was the length thereof, and five cubits the breadth thereof; it was foursquare; and three cubits the height thereof.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he made the horns thereof on the four corners of it; the horns thereof were of the same: and he overlaid it with brass.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he made all the vessels of the altar, the pots, and the shovels, and the basons, and the fleshhooks, and the firepans: all the vessels thereof made he of brass.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he made for the altar a brasen grate of network under the compass thereof beneath unto the midst of it.
|
|
|-
|5
|And he cast four rings for the four ends of the grate of brass, to be places for the staves.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with brass.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he put the staves into the rings on the sides of the altar, to bear it withal; he made the altar hollow with boards.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he made the laver of brass, and the foot of it of brass, of the lookingglasses of the women assembling, which assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|9
|And he made the court: on the south side southward the hangings of the court were of fine twined linen, an hundred cubits:
|
|
|-
|10
|Their pillars were twenty, and their brasen sockets twenty; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets were of silver.
|
|
|-
|11
|And for the north side the hangings were an hundred cubits, their pillars were twenty, and their sockets of brass twenty; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|12
|And for the west side were hangings of fifty cubits, their pillars ten, and their sockets ten; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|13
|And for the east side eastward fifty cubits.
|
|
|-
|14
|The hangings of the one side of the gate were fifteen cubits; their pillars three, and their sockets three.
|
|
|-
|15
|And for the other side of the court gate, on this hand and that hand, were hangings of fifteen cubits; their pillars three, and their sockets three.
|
|
|-
|16
|All the hangings of the court round about were of fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|17
|And the sockets for the pillars were of brass; the hooks of the pillars and their fillets of silver; and the overlaying of their chapiters of silver; and all the pillars of the court were filleted with silver.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the hanging for the gate of the court was needlework, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: and twenty cubits was the length, and the height in the breadth was five cubits, answerable to the hangings of the court.
|
|
|-
|19
|And their pillars were four, and their sockets of brass four; their hooks of silver, and the overlaying of their chapiters and their fillets of silver.
|
|
|-
|20
|And all the pins of the tabernacle, and of the court round about, were of brass.
|
|
|-
|21
|This is the sum of the tabernacle, even of the tabernacle of testimony, as it was counted, according to the commandment of Moses, for the service of the Levites, by the hand of Ithamar, son to Aaron the priest.
|
|
|-
|22
|And Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, made all that the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|23
|And with him was Aholiab, son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan, an engraver, and a cunning workman, and an embroiderer in blue, and in purple, and in scarlet, and fine linen.
|
|
|-
|24
|All the gold that was occupied for the work in all the work of the holy place, even the gold of the offering, was twenty and nine talents, and seven hundred and thirty shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
|
|
|-
|25
|And the silver of them that were numbered of the congregation was an hundred talents, and a thousand seven hundred and threescore and fifteen shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary:
|
|
|-
|26
|A bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.
|
|
|-
|27
|And of the hundred talents of silver were cast the sockets of the sanctuary, and the sockets of the vail; an hundred sockets of the hundred talents, a talent for a socket.
|
|
|-
|28
|And of the thousand seven hundred seventy and five shekels he made hooks for the pillars, and overlaid their chapiters, and filleted them.
|
|
|-
|29
|And the brass of the offering was seventy talents, and two thousand and four hundred shekels.
|
|
|-
|30
|And therewith he made the sockets to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and the brasen altar, and the brasen grate for it, and all the vessels of the altar,
|
|
|-
|31
|And the sockets of the court round about, and the sockets of the court gate, and all the pins of the tabernacle, and all the pins of the court round about.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 39==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|3
|And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut it into wires, to work it in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, with cunning work.
|
|
|-
|4
|They made shoulderpieces for it, to couple it together: by the two edges was it coupled together.
|
|
|-
|5
|And the curious girdle of his ephod, that was upon it, was of the same, according to the work thereof; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|6
|And they wrought onyx stones inclosed in ouches of gold, graven, as signets are graven, with the names of the children of Israel.
|
|
|-
|7
|And he put them on the shoulders of the ephod, that they should be stones for a memorial to the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he made the breastplate of cunning work, like the work of the ephod; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
|
|
|-
|9
|It was foursquare; they made the breastplate double: a span was the length thereof, and a span the breadth thereof, being doubled.
|
|
|-
|10
|And they set in it four rows of stones: the first row was a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this was the first row.
|
|
|-
|11
|And the second row, an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the third row, a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
|
|
|-
|13
|And the fourth row, a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper: they were inclosed in ouches of gold in their inclosings.
|
|
|-
|14
|And the stones were according to the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet, every one with his name, according to the twelve tribes.
|
|
|-
|15
|And they made upon the breastplate chains at the ends, of wreathen work of pure gold.
|
|
|-
|16
|And they made two ouches of gold, and two gold rings; and put the two rings in the two ends of the breastplate.
|
|
|-
|17
|And they put the two wreathen chains of gold in the two rings on the ends of the breastplate.
|
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|-
|18
|And the two ends of the two wreathen chains they fastened in the two ouches, and put them on the shoulderpieces of the ephod, before it.
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|-
|19
|And they made two rings of gold, and put them on the two ends of the breastplate, upon the border of it, which was on the side of the ephod inward.
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|-
|20
|And they made two other golden rings, and put them on the two sides of the ephod underneath, toward the forepart of it, over against the other coupling thereof, above the curious girdle of the ephod.
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|-
|21
|And they did bind the breastplate by his rings unto the rings of the ephod with a lace of blue, that it might be above the curious girdle of the ephod, and that the breastplate might not be loosed from the ephod; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he made the robe of the ephod of woven work, all of blue.
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|-
|23
|And there was an hole in the midst of the robe, as the hole of an habergeon, with a band round about the hole, that it should not rend.
|
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|-
|24
|And they made upon the hems of the robe pomegranates of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and twined linen.
|
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|-
|25
|And they made bells of pure gold, and put the bells between the pomegranates upon the hem of the robe, round about between the pomegranates;
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|-
|26
|A bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate, round about the hem of the robe to minister in; as the LORD commanded Moses.
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|-
|27
|And they made coats of fine linen of woven work for Aaron, and for his sons,
|
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|-
|28
|And a mitre of fine linen, and goodly bonnets of fine linen, and linen breeches of fine twined linen,
|
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|-
|29
|And a girdle of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, of needlework; as the LORD commanded Moses.
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|-
|30
|And they made the plate of the holy crown of pure gold, and wrote upon it a writing, like to the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
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|-
|31
|And they tied unto it a lace of blue, to fasten it on high upon the mitre; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|32
|Thus was all the work of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation finished: and the children of Israel did according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did they.
|
|
|-
|33
|And they brought the tabernacle unto Moses, the tent, and all his furniture, his taches, his boards, his bars, and his pillars, and his sockets,
|
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|-
|34
|And the covering of rams' skins dyed red, and the covering of badgers' skins, and the vail of the covering,
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|-
|35
|The ark of the testimony, and the staves thereof, and the mercy seat,
|
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|-
|36
|The table, and all the vessels thereof, and the shewbread,
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|-
|37
|The pure candlestick, with the lamps thereof, even with the lamps to be set in order, and all the vessels thereof, and the oil for light,
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|-
|38
|And the golden altar, and the anointing oil, and the sweet incense, and the hanging for the tabernacle door,
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|-
|39
|The brasen altar, and his grate of brass, his staves, and all his vessels, the laver and his foot,
|
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|-
|40
|The hangings of the court, his pillars, and his sockets, and the hanging for the court gate, his cords, and his pins, and all the vessels of the service of the tabernacle, for the tent of the congregation,
|
|
|-
|41
|The cloths of service to do service in the holy place, and the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and his sons' garments, to minister in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|42
|According to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so the children of Israel made all the work.
|
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|-
|43
|And Moses did look upon all the work, and, behold, they have done it as the LORD had commanded, even so had they done it: and Moses blessed them.
|
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|-
|}

==Chapter 40==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
|
|
|-
|2
|On the first day of the first month shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
|
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|-
|3
|And thou shalt put therein the ark of the testimony, and cover the ark with the vail.
|
|
|-
|4
|And thou shalt bring in the table, and set in order the things that are to be set in order upon it; and thou shalt bring in the candlestick, and light the lamps thereof.
|
|
|-
|5
|And thou shalt set the altar of gold for the incense before the ark of the testimony, and put the hanging of the door to the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|6
|And thou shalt set the altar of the burnt offering before the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
|
|
|-
|7
|And thou shalt set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and shalt put water therein.
|
|
|-
|8
|And thou shalt set up the court round about, and hang up the hanging at the court gate.
|
|
|-
|9
|And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is therein, and shalt hallow it, and all the vessels thereof: and it shall be holy.
|
|
|-
|10
|And thou shalt anoint the altar of the burnt offering, and all his vessels, and sanctify the altar: and it shall be an altar most holy.
|
|
|-
|11
|And thou shalt anoint the laver and his foot, and sanctify it.
|
|
|-
|12
|And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
|
|
|-
|13
|And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
|
|
|-
|14
|And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:
|
|
|-
|15
|And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.
|
|
|-
|16
|Thus did Moses: according to all that the LORD commanded him, so did he.
|
|
|-
|17
|And it came to pass in the first month in the second year, on the first day of the month, that the tabernacle was reared up.
|
|
|-
|18
|And Moses reared up the tabernacle, and fastened his sockets, and set up the boards thereof, and put in the bars thereof, and reared up his pillars.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he spread abroad the tent over the tabernacle, and put the covering of the tent above upon it; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|20
|And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark:
|
|
|-
|21
|And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and set up the vail of the covering, and covered the ark of the testimony; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he put the table in the tent of the congregation, upon the side of the tabernacle northward, without the vail.
|
|
|-
|23
|And he set the bread in order upon it before the LORD; as the LORD had commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|24
|And he put the candlestick in the tent of the congregation, over against the table, on the side of the tabernacle southward.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he lighted the lamps before the LORD; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|26
|And he put the golden altar in the tent of the congregation before the vail:
|
|
|-
|27
|And he burnt sweet incense thereon; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|28
|And he set up the hanging at the door of the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he put the altar of burnt offering by the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation, and offered upon it the burnt offering and the meat offering; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|30
|And he set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and put water there, to wash withal.
|
|
|-
|31
|And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat:
|
|
|-
|32
|When they went into the tent of the congregation, and when they came near unto the altar, they washed; as the LORD commanded Moses.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he reared up the court round about the tabernacle and the altar, and set up the hanging of the court gate. So Moses finished the work.
|
|
|-
|34
|Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|35
|And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.
|
|
|-
|36
|And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys:
|
|
|-
|37
|But if the cloud were not taken up, then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up.
|
|
|-
|38
|For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category: Conservative Bible]]

Talk:Homosexual Agenda

2013-02-22T18:07:05Z

Onestone: /* The concept of a homosexual agenda */

Scalia mentioned that in a dissenting opinion, which isn't binding law. --[[User:WOVcenter|WOVcenter]] 00:59, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

== Vic Eliason passage should be removed ==

I write this because I have met VE here in Wisconsin and believe he'd be uncomfortable with the logic of including this information in this particular article. The passage: "Vic Eliason of Crosstalk America rightly points out that if all Americans turned homosexual it would only take a few generations for the United States to lose most of the population of the country through lack of procreation. This would make the US more vulnerable to attack by our enemies." Nobody believes that homosexuality is contagious, like a virus, and the probability is 0% that "all Americans" would turn homosexual. I doubt that any homosexual, including activist leaders, would think it would be possible at all or even desirable. There is as little temptation for a heterosexual to want homosexual sex as there is for homosexuals to want heterosexual sex. Also, the comment about the US being more vulnerable to attack because the country doesn't procreate also makes no sense, given that the likelihood of that happening for this reason is 0%. Three other potential problems. 1) The passage is completely undocumented. 2) The link for biographical information for VE is to Wikipedia. Couldn't someone here write an article about him for CP? He has been, after all, a leading figure in Christian radio for 40+ years. 3) Besides being unrelated to the topic of the article and having 0% possibility of describing a real situation, the passage detracts from the credibility of the article and CP. This passage should be removed.

== WOV's got a point ==

Not only that, but this entire article is biased tripe. It presents the "homosexual agenda" from a one-sided perspective, and is filled with hate commentary. '''I recommend the entire thing for deletion.'''

Scalia's remark is regretful and a blemish on the pages of the U.S. Reporter, up there with Scott v. Sanford. But let's not expand it still further.

I have cleaned up biased and vitriolic language as best as I can, but this entry deserves deletion.

Seconded. If this is a homosexual agenda, then what homosexual wrote it? This is nothing but political game-playing: Identify a group as ''The Enemy'' and then brand them haters and abusers of family, children, and country. It makes dehumanising them so much easier. - Suricou

: I didn't see anything "hateful" in it. The Scalia reference was not intended to be about what is binding law, obviously. There was nothing binding about his phrase. I'll note that it was in dissent.

: The edits to this article were completely inappropriate, turning it into a liberal puff piece. Wikipedia exists for that. Actually, your edits made this even more liberal than Wikipedia's article on the same topic!

: The hour is very late and I need to lock this page to guard against vandalism or conversion to a liberal message. I can unlock tomorrow. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 02:11, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

:: Presenting both points doesn't make it a liberal puff piece! It presented only one perspective (Focus on the Family), and referred to the Shepard incident as OVERBLOWN. That's awful!! I consider my entry a moderate tack, but if you can think of an acceptable compromise that preserves an unbiased perspective, be my guest. It shocks me to see you go against your own commandments, though, about not including bias, and not importing a political perspective. I have tried to, and continue to try to, do the same.--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 02:13, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

:Instead of the http://www.citizenlink.org/CLFeatures/A000000562.cfm cite you may want to use this one [http://www.article8.org/docs/gay_strategies/after_the_ball.htm] This cite goes straight (NPI) to a section of the book ''After the Ball''. -)[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 02:24, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

:: Thanks. Will do tomorrow. Goodnight, Cracker!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 02:25, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

I would definitely change the "promote homosexuality in schools" to "promote acceptance of homosexuality in schools". Definitely sounds like they're trying to make me gay. --[[User:Splark|Splark]] 21:45, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:I agree with the comments of [[User:AmesG|AmesG]] and [[User:Splark|Splark]]. The idea that one's ideological opponents have a specific "agenda" is an all-too common one, but such agendas are more often touted by those who oppose than by those who support a group. That a Supreme Court Justice referred to it, or that it's in some leaflet somewhere, isn't substantive evidence that it exists.. [[User:Boethius|Boethius]] 18:22, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Aren't those five points of the "homosexual agenda" linked to more of a strategy than an "agenda"? And, aren't they the standard strategy for all interest groups? 1. Talk about your issue. 2. Show your group is harmed unless you get what you want. 3. Provide facts so people can justify agreeing with you. 4. Portray yourself and your point of view as right and moral. 5. Portray your opponents and their point of view as wrong and immoral. 6. Get corporate or other financial support. Every group and lobbying organization does that, and I don't know that singling out gays and the gay rights movement as doing that is really informative.--[[User:Epicurius|Epicurius]] 11:23, 15 March 2007 (ED

I will go on the record and say that yes, there is a homosexual agenda. As a homosexual myself, I'm pretty much in the middle of it. All we want is to be treated the same as any other tax-paying American. If my partner is injured, I would like to be able to have the same visitation and decision-making power as a husband/wife would. I would like to be able to transfer property when I die without having to jump through a million legal hoops. Many people claim that we want "special" rights. We really don't. We just want to be treated the same as everyone else.--[[User:Patthew|Patthew]] 12:01, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

I think this page is extremely biased. It presents only one side of the issue and is locked to prevent the other side from responding. Proof of a bias of another kind here.
-Gasmonkey

== Everything you post must be true and verifiable ==

This entry violates the first (and perhaps most important) Conservapedia commandment. There is no homosexual "agenda" -- no "they" who "wrote a book", no 10-point plan. It's the same kind of paranoid nonsense that's in the articles here on Joseph McCarthy and Alger Hiss (WP has far more accurate articles on both subjects, with the one on Hiss very clearly identifying areas of controversy), with conspiracy-theorist types quoting and sourcing one another. I propose this entire article for immediate deletion. [[User:Boethius|Boethius]] 10:56, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Agreed. The "Homosexual agenda" is no more factual than the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Delete, or recreate as an article about the popular (?) but false belief in this "agenda." [[User:Pkoad|Pkoad]] 00:21, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

:It refers to the [[gay rights]] activism, which may be a [[grassroots]] movement but which has multiple goals which are easily identified. The Liberal POV that such goals are non-existent is a kind of denialism.

:It will be good for the article to discuss this denial, in conjunction with [[gay rights]] critics who oppose the points which the denialists says no one advances. (Not worded right, but I think you get the gist.) See you all tomorrow. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 00:29, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

::There's no more gay agenda other than there was a "black agenda" before ''Brown'' came down. The gay agenda is equal treatment. Oh no, quick, ma, shut the doors! Equality's a-comin'!-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!]

:::I'd say "keep it" so the world can really see how these strange nutkins think. But in the interest of humanity, decency, and honesty, it is a pack of paranoid, politico-religious agenda lies. Really, really strange nutjob lies. [[User:Human|Human]] 02:51, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

:'''Keep:'''Let's assume for one moment that the homosexual agenda is complete hogwash and homosexual activists don't believe in it: Isn't the fact that Conservative Christians do believe in it enough to keep the article so that the "opinions" of Christians about homosexual activists be here. The fact that many talk about it is clear evidence that this is a valid article--[[User:Djcreativity|Djcreativity]] 15:47, 9 May 2009 (EDT)
::Shouldn't we present information that is factual, and not misleading, though? If the intention of the article was to present Christian responses to gay rights activism, it should be presented as such. Given that ''After the Ball'' was published twenty years ago, presenting it as an active force in the gay rights movement (rather than as a foundation of the movement as a whole) is a bit disingenuous, don't you think? If we were talking about the Black Panthers and the Nation of Islam we could reference Malcom X and Louis Farrakhan, but to act as though their works were part of current politics and national discourse would be misguided at best, and flatly wrong, at worst. --[[User:Jfavor|Jfavor]] 00:40, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

== Opposing Christian Agenda ==

I can't work out what the point of the "Opposing Christian Agenda" section is. The sentences don't make sense, and the referenced page does not mention homosexuality or gay. I propose the section be deleted by someone with the privilege to edit the article. --[[User:Scott|Scott]] 01:33, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

:I think it's not nearly explicit enough. More than anything else except perhaps abortion, the homosexual subversion of Christian values is illustrative of the influence of Satan upon liberals and other leftists, and his influence through them on our society. Should I rework the section to include such? --[[User:Nathan|Nathan]] 22:20, 11 February 2009 (EST)

== Improvements ==

Shouldn't ''Gayness'' in part 1. of the agenda be ''Gaiety''?
The term ''[[homosexual protectors]]'' in part three surely merits its own article. Is this the same as ''[[Homosexualist]]s''? [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 07:11, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

:Any attempt to trivialize or confuse the issue will be frowned upon here. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 07:22, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

We should delete the cite at the bottom saying that homosexuality caused Nazism. That's a truly disturbing allegation.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 12:59, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

:Especially considering that the Nazis actually murdered thousands of homosexuals during World War II.--[[User:Autofire|Autofire]] 18:32, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
::Yes they did, but it was because of Hitler. NOT homosexuality. And waaay more Jews were killed than homosexuals, giving Jews a larger spotlight. [[User:Clorox|Clorox]] I'm liberal, but I don't edit pages-just [[User talk:Clorox|talk page]]s. don't worry. 23:25, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

'''
I believe langauge needs to be corrected in the the first bullet of the list of homosexual goals. It currently states "Censoring sections of the bible condemning homosexuality." The source cited is an article about an offensive tee shirt being censored not the bible its self. There needs to be eaither a new source about Homosexuals attempting to change the bible or the wording must be changed to "preventing materials that denounce homosexuality from being displayed publicly."

Reference number "8" rrefers back to the Conservapedia site. In order to maintain integrity it must refer to an ouside source if one is not provided the reference and quote should be deleted. Currently it is a logical fallacy and is not up to encyclopedic standards. Someone not dyslexic (i.e. somone who isn't me.) should get on that.

== Very Informative ==
'''

Excellent portrayal of the truth. This is a nice breather from the left-wing saturated wikipedia.com. If you agree with the article, you should check out the highly accurate article on homophobia. Everyone knows that the creation of homophobia is a foundation of the gay agenda.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Homophobia

Wikipedia is subject to open edits that don't reqier an account. Are you suggesting that the monitors of wikipedia aka "everyone who can type" has a liberal bias?

== Is this real? ==

This article seems like a parody. I can't believe that... oh yeah, I'm at conservapedia. I can believe anything. [[User:Flippin|Flippin]] 12:44, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

As well as the mysterious reference to a "leading book in the homosexual movement", it refers to a book claiming that the Nazi Party supported homosexuality. Clearly this has to be satirical. Either that, or someone has a serious case of paranoia - all the sources, as well as being of dubious credabililty, point towards independent events but the whole point of the page is to talk about a shadowy conspiricy - a 'Secret Society' of homosexuals trying to gayify the world. I suggest deleting the whole page - and if it reappears in a similar form, delete and protect. - [[User:Suricou|Suricou]]

== Agendas ==
So since there are so many references on this wiki to the "homosexual agenda" can we also cite the "Conservative Agenda" or "Republican Agenda" or "Christian Agenda"? {{unsigned|prof0705}}
:I don't see why not, as long as they sourced and reasonably recognizable as phrases in common use. In fact, here, I would expect an article on [[conservative agenda]] to be very good. [[User:Human|Human]] 17:56, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

This article violates the [[Conservapedia:Commandments]] (number 2: cite sources and 5: personal opinion).
#It claims to quote Focus on the Family for the definition of The Homosexual Agenda without giving a specific reference, and FotF is only claimed to be quoting "a leading book in the homosexual movement" without even bothering to name the book or its author.
#The two bulleted points in "The Goals" (about 8-year-old boys and 12-to-14 year olds) are stating as fact the opinion of Craig Osten, a vice president at the Alliance Defense Fund.
#Several of the other references to that section are either citing journalist's or lawyer's opinions, not facts or any quote from the people who are alleged to hold the agenda under discussion.

I am prohibited from editing the page but I suggest that the Agenda is moved to the top, and the original source for it cited, rather than a vague second-hand reference. The judge's quote should then be indented as a block quote so it is more clearly identifiable as quoting the judge. The Goals and Opposing Christian Agenda should be cleaned up and cite proper sources not opinions, or be more clearly marked as only opinions of people who oppose the Homosexual Agenda. If Conservapedia could handle it, even a quote from someone who supports it would be good. --[[User:Scott|Scott]] 06:06, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

:[[Conservapedia:Commandments]] (number 2: cite sources and 5: personal opinion) is superceded by [[Conservapedia:Locks and Blocks]]:
::''Sysop's and Bureaucrats are the Administrators of Conservapedia. Their instructions, as to Conservapedia policy and/or the appropriateness or inappropriateness of user actions, are to be followed. Failure to do so will result in the user being blocked.''
:Note: ''Their <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Special:ListUsers/sysop sysops]]<nowiki>]</nowiki> instructions, as to Conservapedia policy [...] are to be followed'', which means if a sysop has decided it is so it is so. If you continue to argue you may get blocked.
:[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 07:23, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

What about Hot man on man/woman on woman action? I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that homosexuals were pretty in favor of that.

== Is this really as big as people make it out to be? ==
While I personally do not like anyone being too open about their personal lives, especially concerning anything to do with sex, still when I hear about a "Homosexual Agenda" I can only think of another fear that other people once tried to infect people with: it was called "The Protocols of The Elders of Zion." I think some of you may understand my point... [[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 16:15, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, I don't really understand why people even care if someone is homosexual or not. If you're not a homosexual yourself you're not gonna be involved with homosexuality so why even care? It doesn't affect you in that case. If someones is homosexual, then fine. Let them be. Has nothing to do with you. [[User:JohnKite|JohnKite]] 11:33, 28 January 2009 (EST)
:Do you not care about God, JohnKite? Do you not care about His society? Do you not acre about moral erosion, disease, and the future of humanity? Do you not care about what is right and what is wrong? [[User:MauriceB|MauriceB]] 11:35, 28 January 2009 (EST)

==Please remove the reference to Scott Lively's propaganda book==
This is propaganda. It seems you don't allow neutrality here. [[User:GayMan|GayMan]] 21:51, 28 June 2007 (EDT)
:I agree. Numbers 1-5 on there are kinda wrong, and number 6 tops it off as crap. [[User:Clorox|Clorox]] 23:11, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== Hey, now... ==
I'm LGBT and I'm certainly not aware of any sort of "agenda" being discussed. Perhaps this is just a typical case of right-wing paranoia? --[[User:Afi|Afi]] 18:07, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

You're not aware because you're not hive-minded. The agenda is memetic, therefore you're not all going to know about it. --[[User:Pious|Pious]] 18:21, 24 June 2011 (EDT)

==What the hell?==

The “homosexuality agenda" was created by Focus on the Family, which you say later in the article, ACTIVELY OPPOSES homosexuality. You wouldn’t let me post Jon Stewart quotes on the Bush page, so why is this kind of crap aloud here? [[User:Tesfan|Tesfan]] 11:43, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

This is exactly the sort of thing that inspires violence against homosexuals. Be more neutral.[[User:Alloco1|Alloco1]] 12:34, 27 September 2007 (EDT)
:Good luck pal, I've been saying that for months. And watch your language, they'll ban you for that here. [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 12:46, 27 September 2007 (EDT)

==Politics and science==

Dr. Ronald Bayer, writing in Homosexuality And American Psychiatry: The Politics Of Diagnosis said the APA decision was a political one, not a scientific one: "The result [of the APA removal of homosexuality from the DSM] was not a conclusion based upon an approximation of the scientific truth as dictated by reason, but was instead an action demanded by the ideological temper of the times." [http://traditionalvalues.org/pdf_files/Homosexuality101.pdf]
==Liberal Deceit==
I suggest we change the category from Deceit to Liberal Deceit because liberals universally support the gay agenda. --[[User:Konservativekanadian|Konservativekanadian]] 22:26, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
*Good idea! --[[User:TK|şŷŝoρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|/Ṣρёаќǃ]] 23:08, 26 October 2007 (EDT)
::Bad idea. It's not deceit. [[User:Clorox|Clorox]] 23:16, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
Again I find myself disturbed by the language of absolutes that have infested this site. There are liberal and homosexual philosophies mentioned in this site that some liberals and homosexuals don't have simply because they don't know about them- and it's certainly not a stretch of the imagination to say these people are generally ignorant. Are children in Africa who die young damned simply because a missionary doesn't exist where they live and they couldn't have possibly heard the good news about Christ? I think not. I believe they get another chance to. --[[User:Pious|Pious]] 18:26, 24 June 2011 (CDT)

==Sources?==

Are there any sources besides those accusing the gay agenda? There's no evidence of any organized "agenda", and all of the goals and such are provided by those opposing it. Best case, this is an article about a pundit talking point, and worst case it's a conspiracy theory masked as an encyclopedia article. Shouldn't it at least mention that there has never been any evidence of even a mildly organized or centralized gay agenda? The fact that it's permanently locked further undermines CP credibility. [[User:RWest|RWest]] 12:32, 13 November 2007 (EST)

Specific suggestion:
:Focus on the Family quotes below from a leading book in the homosexual movement which outlines the points of the homosexual agenda:
There is no source cited here. The source is "The Overhauling of Straight America," an article which appeared in the November 1987 issue of a gay magazine called ''The Guide''. [[User:Shii|Shii]] 22:44, 23 November 2007 (EST)

:: Thanks, I just added an online link to it.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:04, 23 November 2007 (EST)

== Mottos? ==

The edit replacing "beliefs" with "mottos" was unjustified. There is a (baseless) belief system inherent in the homosexual agenda.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:41, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

== References: "small looks better" ==

Why? All the other articles I've seen have references at regular text size. What's particular about this article that it needs to have really tiny footnotes? [[User:Sideways|Sideways]] 17:24, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

==Homosexuality in Congress==

In a recent discussion with a friend of mine, we discussed what is here called the "homosexual agenda". In addition to the notion of whether "everyone has an agenda" (something I would consider adding to the Debate pool if anyone would like clarification of my terms/beliefs here, I brought up the notion of whether or not there exists a disproportionate number of homosexuals or, unfortunately, scandals regarding previously latent homosexual desires among otherwise Conservative men (Larry Craig, Mark Foley, Bob Allen, the Glenn Murphy scandal), and whether this constitutes the corrupting nature of power, or, as my friend (a somewhat eccentric, Ron Paul-supporter type) suggests, whether these men are "moles" (his term, not mine) representing a quote, "homo infiltration". To put it bluntly, imagine the Manchurian Candidate, but with sodomy.

I was wondering if anyone here (I imagine you have all put some effort into the research and sourcing for this article) had ever heard trustworthy sources, blogs, or essays dealing with such a belief. I obviously don't support the endorsement of wingnut theories, but if it is a more widespread belief among self-avowed Republicans and conservatives, then I think it bears mentioning. I wait to see if any such evidence exists. [[User:MICasey|MICasey]] 10:48, 9 September 2009 (EDT)

==Iran?==
This site considers Iran as an example for how to deal with homosexuals?? I hope this is a joke; otherwise, this is one of the sickest, most hateful websites I've ever seen. You claim to follow Jesus, and then condone executing homosexuals?? This must be an example of following the hard-ass God of the Old Testament.{{unsigned|User:Pete5383}}

:This site does not condone the murder of homosexuals by the state. It is a true statement on Iran and most Muslim countries are no different. So yes, they oppose the homosexual agenda but that doesn't correspond to the section which talks of political/cultural opposition. Instead, a foreign section needs created and the FACTS put in the proper place.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 22:37, 17 August 2010 (EDT)

==Merge from "pro-Gay"==

Thanks for [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homosexual_Agenda&curid=69968&diff=877518&oldid=877453&rcid=1187531 merging this point] from the "[[pro-gay]]" article. I sure wish I had '''bothered to look''' for the diff before undoing your careful work. *sigh* --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 16:44, 9 June 2011 (EDT)

==Homophobes==

Westboro is probably the only authentically "[[homophobic]]" group in the USA. They used to have a "God hates fags" website. No one takes them seriously, on either side of the ideological battle lines. They are the poster boys for [[hate speech]]. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 17:00, 2 October 2011 (EDT)

==Charity==

:Cut from lede:

:* Liberals generally give much less than conservatives to charity, but charity work by gays in particular is virtually non-existent.

:This needs references, if true. But I don't believe it - or maybe I just don't understand it. Isn't [[Gay Men's Health Crisis]] a [[charity]]? (Or is it merely a [[non-profit organization]] '''without''' a charitable purpose? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 17:44, 12 October 2011 (EDT)

Just happened to see this, and so here is some data:

On average, weekly churchgoers donate 3.8% of their income to charity, compared to 0.8% for those who never go. Independent Sector (charitable clearing house): Atheists won't save Europe by Don Feder; http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=27937

Religious citizens who make $49,000 gave away about 3.5 times as much money as secular citizens with the same income. They also volunteered twice as often, are 57 percent more likely to help homeless persons, and two-thirds more likely to give blood at their workplace. Arthur C. Brooks' Who Really Cares. http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2008/001/8.11.html

In 2006, Americans gave 1.66% of their aggregate income to charity, with donations totaling US$182 billion. This rate of giving is more than double that of Canadians, who gave 0.76% of aggregate income (CA$8.4 billion in total) to charity in 2006. http://www.fraserinstitute.org/commerce.web/product_files/Generosity_Index_2008.pdf

See [http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Statistical_Correlations.html here] for a table of many comparison btwn states, and [http://247wallst.com/2011/12/15/americas-most-and-least-charitable-states/2/ here] for recent stats on giving per state.

$8.8 billion worth of goods and services that churches are giving overseas to developing (“Third World”) countries. This figures out to be nearly 40 percent of the foreign aid provided by the United States to the same region. U.S. foreign aid to those same countries is $23.5 billion. Carol Adelman of the Hudson Institute, from Notre Dame University study. http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=118566

Giving as a percentage of income was higher at the depth of the Great Depression in the 1930s (3.3 percent of per capita income in 1933) than after a half-century of unprecedented prosperity (2.5 percent in 2004) John Ronsvalle and Sylvia Ronsvalle, The State of Church Giving through 2004: Will We Will? 16th ed. (Champaign, Ill.: Empty Tomb, 2006). ^

The proportion of adults who tithe dropped by 62 percent in the past year. (2) Just 6 percent of born-again households tithed to their churches in 2002. (3) Tithing, when it occurs, is generally among Protestants: 5 percent of adults who attend Protestant churches tithed last year, compared to less than one-tenth of 1 percent among Catholics. (4) Among the groups most likely to tithe are people over 55, college graduates, Evangelicals, Republicans, conservatives, and residents of the South—but there was no segment among which at least 10 percent tithed. George Barna. News release by Barna Research Group, May 19, 2003. ^

Including religious, American households overall gave 3.5% of their income to charity, with approx. 33% going to to religious institutions. Utah was the state with the highest average per-capita charitable contributions, followed by Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee and Arkansas. Professor Arthur Brooks, 2005. http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2005/February/200502181639511CJsamohT5.593508e-02.html

A liberal researcher who was surprised at finding that showed conservatives being more giving, set out to do a more thorough analysis, only to confirm the findings: http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/01/07/dataset-of-the-day-who-is-more-generous-republicans-or-democrats/

Also, the top 10 most generous countries are:

1. United States
2. Ireland
3. Australia
4. New Zealand
5. United Kingdom
6. Netherlands
7. Canada
8. Sri Lanka
9. Thailand
10. Laos

The United States’ first place in the rankings marks a significant improvement from 2010, when it ranked fifth. Other countries making significant gains include Liberia, which went from 39 to 14, and Morocco, which leapt from 33 to 12. http://www.worldvision.org/news/new-report-ranks-most-generous-countries. [[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 22:27, 27 February 2012 (EST)

==Kirk and Madsen==
The WP page on Marshall Kirk [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Kirk#Health] has this but which i cannot find a source for:

"Marshall suffered from severe migraine headaches that were preceded by a strong desire to talk in a rapid monologue. He found that if he gave into these "babbling fits", the headache would be alleviated. He had other medical problems and suffered from bouts of depression that required electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) on three occasions. Because of the negative effects on his memory, he considered ECT to be the last alternative to avoid death. In part due to this medical history, his knowledge of pharmacology was usually greater than that of anyone who treated him. When he died, he was found alone in his apartment by two friends."

Also cannot find anything on Hunter Madsen (pen name "Erastes Pill")[[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 23:54, 24 February 2012 (EST)

== The concept of a homosexual agenda ==

A blocked user wrote (in part):

:I made several edits to this page which either eliminated the presentation of personal opinion as fact or which placed notes that statements were not verifiable and were not accompanied by a citation. I find the article as a whole fairly interesting because whether or not an actual homosexual agenda exists, the concept of a homosexual agenda most definitely exists either as an actual agenda held by gay activists or as a perceived agenda by those who oppose acceptance or expansion of rights.

:None of the changes I made changed the fundamental content of the article, but simply attempted to enhance the article by removing or noting items that lacked references to verifiable data or which were expressions of personal opinion (both of which are forbidden by the conservapedia commandments). This was met with immediate reversion of the edits (which is fine) and blocking of my account from making further changes and blocking of the IP address from which I logged in (which is unacceptable). As you can see on the history page, this was done by user Markman.

:I understand that a site such as conservapedia is probably subjected to significant attempts at sabotage, but it is unfortunate that the sight has become inhospitable to legitamate attempts to improve the quality of the site by removing mere statements of personal opinion which are un-referenced, un-substantiated, and and un-verifiable.

:Conservapedia could have been a great resource, but it has, unfortunately, allowed itself to become nothing more than a site that presents propaganda and opinion as fact in violation of its own commandments.

Overlooking for the moment the apparent admission that you have logged in under a new username to evade a block, your unsigned comment gives no particulars such as a "diff" to support your complaints. Please use the proper channels if you want a more substantial response. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 09:57, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Please do not jump to conclusions. I did not create a new account to evade a block. I checked the previous username this morning and it was no longer blocked. The user that blocked me (Markman) gave as one of the reasons for the block, that I had used a user name which violated conservapedia policy (a policy which I searched for but could not find). Out of respect for Marman's complaint about my user name, I created a new acount in order to comply with the conservapedia policy on usernames (which, again, I could not find). I am sorry, but I am not familiar with this forum and I don't really know what "diff" means. Finally, I also do not know what would be the proper channel for this commentary. I read (in its entirety) the page linked as "conservapedia commandments" and all the pages linked to from that page. Im also not sure what you mean by "unsigned". I was logged in when I made the original comments and I didnt realize that a signature was needed in addition to being logged in. Also, I did not intend to use inflammatory language in the initial post. It was more a reaction to being blocked under false pretenses and I did not mean to offend anyone. Sorry about my ingorance of this forum, but I am new to the entire wiki process. Is there some sort of tutorial or guidelines available on the site? Thanks, Mikers.

:Here's the [http://conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homosexual_Agenda&action=historysubmit&diff=1035658&oldid=1035638 diff] of Markman reverting this user's edits. Mikers is right that at least some of the sentences he deleted are in clear violation of Conservapedia guidelines. [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 13:07, 22 February 2013 (EST)

Fred Karger

2013-02-21T08:20:55Z

Onestone: typos

Fred Karger (born January 31, 1950) is a RINO former political consultant, an openly [[homosexual]] [[Homosexual rights advocacy|“gay rights”]] activist and a former candidate for the Republican nomination for the [[2012 United States Presidential Election]]. For the last couple of years he has spent most of his time promoting the [[homosexual agenda]].

==Early life and political career==
Karger was born in Glencoe, Illinois. He has described his childhood as “carbon copy” of the television show “Leave it to Beaver”<ref name="Caller">[http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/31/gay-republican-and-possible-2012-presidential-candidate-fred-karger-talks-to-thedc/ Gay Republican and possible 2012 presidential candidate Fred Karger talks to theDC - The Daily Caller]</ref>, but since he is a homosexual [[Sexual abuse being a contributing factor for homosexuality|this claim is extremely unlikely]]. When he was in his early 20’s, Karger lost an uncle (who was also gay) to suicide<ref name="Latimes">[http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/09/nation/la-na-0810-karger-gop-2012-20110810 Gay presidential candidate Fred Karger has a message – The LA times]</ref>, suggesting a [[Mental Health and Homosexuality|history of mental illness in the family]].

His first involvement in politics was in 1964. Fourteen years old at the time, Karger campaigned for fellow RINO [[Nelson Rockefeller]] against the conservative [[Barry Goldwater]].<ref name="Latimes" /> In 1977 he joined the Dolphin Group, a political consultation firm. From that year until his retirement in 2004 he worked as a senior consultant in several reelection campaigns of Republican candidates and office holders including former presidents [[Gerald Ford]], [[Ronald Reagan]] and [[George H. W. Bush]].<ref name="Conservnews">[http://conservativedailynews.com/2011/06/fred-karger-2012-presidential-profile/ Fred Karger: 2012 Presidential Profile]</ref> His later actions and promotion of the homosexual agenda and other liberal causes suggest he did not truly identify with the candidates he was working for.

== Homosexual activism ==
Karger’s first involvement in homosexual activism was in 2006, when he came out of the closet and spearheaded the unsuccessful campaign to prevent the closure of the Boom Boom Boom, a gay bar in the Californian city of Laguna Beach.<ref name="Latimes" /> Seeing that gay bars serve to facilitate sexual relationships between people of the same gender, the Boom Boom Boom was most likely a major source of STDs, similar to a [[gay bathhouse]].

Three years after the failed attempt to save what might have been the biggest health hazard in the history of Laguna Beach, Karger joined the campaign of intimidation against supporters of California’s [[proposition 8]].<ref name="Conservnews" /> Among the many homosexual activists who have praised Karger’s bullying is Chad Griffin, a [[Democratic party|Democratic]] political strategist who is hoping to persuade federal judges to engage in [[judicial activism]] in order to overturn the Californian ban on [[same-sex "marriages"]].<ref name="Latimes" />

==Presidential campaign==
On August 2010 Karger formed an exploratory committee for the presidential elections<ref>[http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/08/fred-karger-the-gay-rights-bogeyman-of-the-gop-presidential-race/61279/ Fred Karger: The Gay-Rights Bogeyman of the GOP Presidential Race – The Atlantic]</ref> On March 23 2011 he officially launched his candidacy.<ref>[http://politics.salon.com/2011/03/23/gay_republican_president/ Fred Karger, gay Republican for president – Salon Magazine]</ref> A couple of days later Karger won a presidental straw poll in New Hampshire <ref>[http://iowaindependent.com/54449/karger-beats-romney-in-new-hampshire-straw-poll Karger beats Romney in New Hampshire straw poll]</ref>, through it is likely that the poll was manipulated by Karger and his supporters.

Karger’s had two main motives for participating. The first was to enter at least one of the presidential primary debates in order to use it as a stage for promoting the homosexual agenda. The second motive was to try to bully Mitt Romney into backing of from his (current) opposition to same-sex “marriage” and have him influence the leadership of the LSD church to do the same.<ref name="Latimes" />

Karger’s behavior during his presidential campaign was typical of a [[Homosexual intimidation|radical homosexual bully]]. In June 2011 Karger submitted to the Massachusetts Election and Tax board a frivolous complaint against Romney alleging that he committed election fraud.<ref>[http://iowaindependent.com/57349/karger-questions-romneys-primary-residence Karger questions Romney’s primary residence – The Iowa Independent]</ref> Karger’s complaint was without merit and nothing came out of it.
When the [[mainstream media]] attacked Marcus Bachmann (Husband of [[Michele Bachmann|Michele]]) for his work in helping misguided homosexual teenagers live a healthier life, Karger hurled what was probably the most hateful of his comments and went on to call Michele Bachmann a “liar” and “just another hypocrite and bigot.”<ref>[http://iowaindependent.com/58407/fred-karger-bachmann-is-a-liar Fred Karger: Bachmann ‘is a liar’ – The Iowa Independent]</ref> Despite the fact that Karger often brags about his connection to Reagan (to whom he refers as “my old boss”<ref>[http://articles.boston.com/2011-07-14/news/29774170_1_new-hampshire-debate-presidential-campaign-iowa-faith As ‘gay Republican,’ Karger smiles as he nudges open closed doors – Boston.com]</ref>), he pays little attention to one of the most famous quotes by the 40th president: "Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."<ref>[http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0402/0402eleventhcommandment.htm The Eleventh Commandment – Enter Stage Right Magazine]</ref>

=== Karger and the presidential debates ===
Karger’s main goals is to enter as many Republican presidential debates as possible with the intention of using them to promote his homosexual propaganda. Luckily, he has been invited to none.

On August 5, 2011 Karger claimed to have met the criteria for participating in the Iowa debate that was about to be held in six days and asked to be let in.<ref>[http://fredkarger.com/posts/update-august-5-2011 An Update from Fred Karger’s website, August 5, 2011]</ref> Quickly it was discovered that Karger had selectively quoted from the criteria for participation and did not qualify for it.<ref>[http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/08/05/gay-republican-presidential-candidate-i-qualify-for-ames-debate-fox-news-says-no/ Gay Republican presidential candidate: I qualify for Ames debate; Fox News says no – Iowa Caucuses]</ref> Karger has tried joining later debates as well.<ref>[http://www.nhinsider.com/press-releases/2011/8/30/fred-karger-for-president-karger-reaches-out-for-inclusion-i.html Karger Reaches Out for Inclusion in Reagan Library Debate – NH Insider]</ref><ref>[http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/blog/gop-2012-hopeful-fred-karger-tries-get-rpof-p5-debate GOP 2012 Hopeful Fred Karger Tries to Get Into RPOF P5 Debate – Sunshine State News]</ref>

== Political positions ==
When looking at Karger’s political positions, as expressed through his campaign website and statements made to the press, one can only note how lacking in Conservatism they are. Most of his positions are identical to those advocated by the most liberal members of the [[Democratic Party]].

The issues on which Karger is most focused on are those related to the homosexual agenda. He is supportive of the same-sex “marriage”, the repeal of [[DADT]] and enacting “anti-discrimination” laws which will give special privileges to homosexuals as a group.<ref name="Issues">[http://fredkarger.com/issues Issue highlights from Karger’s website]</ref> He is fully supportive of abortion and marijuana legalization<ref name="Issues" />; he might have a selfish motive in doing so considering the [[Homosexuality and Illegal Drug Use|link between homosexuality and narcotic abuse]].

Karger’s positions on foreign policy are fully concurrent with those of [[Barack Hussein Obama]]. He wishes for a complete withdrawal of US troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, but supported the [[Libyan War 2011#United States Intervention|US led intervention in the Lybia]].<ref name="Issues" /> Karger claims to be to be pro-Israel<ref name="Issues" />, despite the fact that the Obama’s intervention in Libya, which Karger supported, will probably lead to the strengthening of anti-Israeli terrorists<ref>[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8414583/Libya-al-Qaeda-among-Libya-rebels-Nato-chief-fears.html Libya: al-Qaeda among Libya rebels, Nato chief fears – Daily Telegraph]</ref> and that due to the war weapons from Libya’s army reached the hands of [[Hamas]].<ref>[http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/hamas-boosting-anti-aircraft-arsenal-with-looted-libyan-missiles-1.392186 Hamas boosting anti-aircraft arsenal with looted Libyan missiles - Haaretz]</ref> Karger supposed pro-Israel credentials are further put into question considering that he met with Nitzan Horowitz, an openly homosexual Member of [[Knesset]] from the terrorist supporting party [[Meretz]].<ref>[http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=221039 First gay Jewish Republican presidential candidate visits – Jerusalem Post]</ref>

==References==
<references/>


{{DEFAULTSORT:Karger, Fred}}
[[Category:Homosexuals]]
[[Category:2012 Presidential Candidates]]
[[Category:Homosexual Agenda]]

Pastoral (music)

2013-02-20T13:39:47Z

Onestone:

The word '''Pastoral''' is derived from the [[Latin]] adjective ''pastoralis'' ("appertaining to shepherds") and can be discerned as a form of literature as far back as [[Hesiod]] in the 7th century B.C., In music, as in literature, it is seen as having to do with country life and rural themes. As a musical term (often seen in the[[France| French]] ''“Pastorelle”'' or French and [[Italy|Italian]] ''“Pastorale”''), it came into Western music through certain songs of the troubadours and trouvères in southern and northern France respectively in the 11th and 12th centuries.

The earliest piece of English lyric verse to which we have a tune is the pastoral ''“Sumer is acumen in”'' from about the 1240s. Also about this time a play on the frivolities of ''“Robin et Marion”'' was set to music.

Many songs of the 15th century – French [[chanson]]s Italian [[frottola]] and early [[madrigal]]s – concerned themselves with love in the open air and the pleasures and vicissitudes of rural life. This continued into the 20th century with Joseph Canteloube’s extremely popular and oft recorded collection of folk songs, '“Chants D’Auvergne”''.

The theme of the amorous shepherd, of nymphs cavorting with shepherdesses in Arcadian glades and fields was a favourite theme in early [[opera]]s and at the courts of England and France into the eighteenth century. The late 15th century [[Venice|Venetian]] play ''“Il pastor fido”'' (''“The Faithful Shepherd”'') was given many musical treatments including one by Handel as late as 1736.

As a term descriptive of the music rather than the subject, the term gained currency during the 18th century to describe music that sounded like a country dance. This was music with a ground bass suggestive of [[bagpipes]] (a particularly rustic instrument once pried away from the Scots) accompanying country dance-like rhythms. [[J. S. Bach]] wrote a ''“Pastoral Symphony”'' into his ''“Christmas Oratorio”'' as did Handel into “''[[Handel's Messiah|The Messiah]]''”

Major pieces with the term attached (either by the composer or others) include symphonies by [[Beethoven]], [[Ralph Vaughan Williams|Vaughan Williams]] and Alexander Glazunov, a [[piano]] [[sonata]] by Beethoven, [[Joaquín Rodrigo]]’s ''“Concierto Pastoral”'' (flute) and various [[suite]]s, [[fantasia]]s and other descriptive pieces. [[Emmanuel Chabrier]]’s orchestral “Suite Pastorale” is especially popular.

[[Category:Musical forms]]

Russian language

2013-02-19T18:18:44Z

Onestone: more accurate

'''Russian''' (Русский язык; ''Russkiy yazyk'') is a [[Slavic languages|Slavic language]] spoken in [[Russia]] and the former Soviet republics. It is spoken by over 200 million people worldwide.

It is written in the [[Cyrillic alphabet]].

In the Russian present [[tense]] the verb "to be" is omitted, and there are no [[article (grammar)|articles]] (a, an, the), which means that the understanding of a [[noun]] as a determinant or indeterminant noun is based on context (I.e. "This is a cat" is literally translated to "This cat"). However, "to be" is used in the past and future tenses.

Every noun and [[adjective]] can be declined in 6 [[grammatical case|cases]]: nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, prepositional (locative) and instrumental; both in the singular and plural. Because of this freedom, [[word order]] is not very important to the speaker, and he or she is able to use word order to make subtle distinctions in tone, in importance, or in relevance.

[[Verb]]s are conjugated in the present, past and future tenses, in the indicative, subjunctive and imperative [[mood (grammar)|moods]]. All verbs have at least two forms (one in the imperfective [[aspect (grammar)|aspect]] and another in the perfective) to reflect the perceived completion of the action; verbs of motion can have two imperfective forms, one having a habitual meaning and one having a progressive meaning. The tenses are formed as follows:
*The present tense uses [[affix|endings]] to represent [[person (grammar)|person]] and [[number (grammar)|number]].
*The past tense is based on a [[participle]] and therefore agrees with the subject in number and, in the singular, [[Grammar#Gender|gender]], but not person.
*The future tense of perfective verbs uses the present-tense endings, since perfective verbs have no present tense. The future tense of imperfective verbs is formed by the future tense of "to be" (быть) with the [[infinitive]].

Examples:
*''Здравствуйте!'' (zdrastvwiche) = formal, pleasure to meet you
*''Привет!'' (Privyet)= Hello, Hi (between friends).
*''Как поживаете?'' (Kahk paživayete) = How are you?
*''Как вас зовут?'' (Kahk vas zavut) = literally "how do they call you" = What's your name?
*''Меня зовут Иван.'' (Menya zavut Eevan) = My name is Ivan. (literally - they call me, Ivan)

[[Category: Slavic languages]]

Talk:Mystery:Does God Have a Sense of Humor?

2013-02-19T16:18:33Z

Onestone: /* Seriously? */

== Yes ==

He does, but He doesn't intervene with modern times. Tim Tebow's 316 yards is just a coincidence, and there isn't much reason to think otherwise. [[User:JLefkowitz|JLefkowitz]] 17:55, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:If God has a sense of humor, then it seems highly implausible that He would not intervene to enjoy the humor. Under your view, what would God find funny if not by intervention?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:23, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Obviously, God is infinitely great, a sense of humor is a good quality. If He was lacking it, He wouldn't be infinitely great. Therefore he must have not only a sense of humor, but an infinitely great and perfect sense of humor. --[[User:CraigF|CraigF]] 14:04, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

*[[User:FrancisB52|FrancisB52]] 16:01, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

Of course God has a sense of humor. Archbishop Fulton Sheen did an episode on that in his show Life is Worth Living, and you can look it up on YouTube (look for Fulton Sheen Divine Sense of Humor). Humor is a recognition of the Truth, and pointing that out. So, of course God has a great sense of humor. --[[User:Wayfinder|Wayfinder]] 15:57, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

I most definately believe so. There are many times where I feel a force beyond this world is playing a joke on me. Who else but God has that power? I'm also no stranger to joking around, so I can take it. It's never anything serious, just things like PSN always doing maintenence when I try to log on. There's also the times when I need to mentor younger kids and I get the ones that are exactly like me at that age. When I get annoyed by something they did, my parents or some other adult that knew me at that age will say "you were just like that." Whenever things like that happen, I just casually look up and think/pray "haha I see what you just did." A practical joke by God or not, it sure does help with the minor irritants in life. Plus we are created in God's image. I like to interperate that as "asside from sin, God has all the traits we have and then some." Humor wasn't a sin last time I checked.--[[User:Pokematic|Pokematic]] 21:29, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

:If God made man "in His image" then every good human quality must be a reflection of God's character. Our capacity for enjoying humor, like our ability to appreciate humor, is a God-given quality. And you can't "give away" what you don't have. So I think God can appreciate a good joke now and then. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 09:49, 19 February 2013 (EST)

== No ==

== Not applicable ==

God is not a human being and is above human psychological traits. The "logic" argument appears to create God in the image of man, which verges on the blasphemous. The argument is fallacious: Just replace "sense of humor" with some less pleasant traits, like "Man has to relieve himself regularly in the bathroom. Does God have to go to the bathroom?" Obviously not! As regards the history argument, you should read the comedies of [[Aristophanes]], written around 400 BC. They are very funny! --[[User:FrederickT3|FrederickT3]] 18:09, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:Emotions like humor are not physical. God surely does have other emotions like love, anger, sorrow, joy, etc., and man has them as well after being created in God's image.

:Pre-Christian Greek "humor" tends to be very simple, and barely funny by today's more sophisticated standards as developed by the Christian world.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:34, 10 March 2012 (EST)

::Really? Maybe you just got a bad translation. Aristophanes is pretty good, although his humor is pretty 'adult' (or would juvenile be a better word?). Anyway, I would expect someone who was brought up with modern, western humor to find Ancient Greek humor slightly less funny than someone that was brought up on it. [[User:Cmurphynz|Cmurphynz]] 20:26, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

Frederick, you're assuming that if man reflects God in any way, then God must reflect man in all ways. Even Aristotle would have rejected such a [[logical error]]. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 09:51, 19 February 2013 (EST)

== Atilla the Hun ==

I had no idea this guy was a leading political leader! Which elections did he run in? Which party did he belong to? - was it the Democrats? Just joking - this article is supposed to be about a sense of humour. By the way, watch the British comedy 'The thick of it' if you want to fully appreciate political humour. On second thoughts maybe 'yes minister' might be more your style - it's less sweary. [[User:EJamesW|EJamesW]] 18:13, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:Politics is a broader concept than [[democracy]]. Or do you think that [[Julius Caesar]] was not a political leader?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:25, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Here's the last known clip of Julius Caesar meeting a voter! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvs4bOMv5Xw He he [[User:EJamesW|EJamesW]] 18:33, 10 March 2012 (EST)

::Of course he was a political leader, but I hadn't realised that Atilla was an atheist. I would have expected him to worship whatever pagan gods the Huns worshipped at the time. Very few non-Christians at that time would have been atheists; or is there a specific reference to support Atilla's atheism?--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:33, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

:::Note that Conservapedia's own Attila the Hun article says that he "relied on seers and "gods"".--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:34, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

== Seriously? ==

*'''logic''': man has a sense of humor, and man was created in the image of God. Hence God has a sense of humor.
:''Man, possesses many qualities that God would have no need for, both psychological and biological. Conversely God has boundless abilities that man does not posses. Therefore it's pointless to speculate on qualities God may have based on those manifested by mankind.''
*'''history''': man's sense of humor improved with the discovery and expansion of Christianity, which indicates their strong correlation.
:''This doesn't even make sense.''
*'''politics''': atheistic political figures are known for their lack of a sense of humor, such as [[Attila the Hun]], which suggests that the opposite of God is a lack of sense of humor.
:''And the Grand Ayatollah Khomeini was a regular barrel of laughs.''
*'''religious''': the encounter on the road to Emmaus, described at [[Luke_17-24_(Translated)#Chapter_24|Luke 25:13-31]], strongly suggests that God has intervened in amusing ways.
:''You may have a point with this one, I am sure atheists, theists of other faiths, and non-literalist Christians, find much to laugh at.''
*'''scientific''': snowstorms have disrupted [[global warming]] conferences; regions that promote the global warming hoax have been subjected to brutally cold weather.
:''So when God causes record breaking warm winters, are those the jokes that bomb?''
*'''athletic''': [[Tim Tebow]]'s completion of ten passes for 316 yards, at 31.6 yards per competition, in his stunning playoff victory against the [[Pittsburgh Steelers]], echoed his promotion of [[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_3|John 3:16]].
:''I wasn't aware that statistical anomalies, commonly known as coincidences, were considered "humor".''--[[User:JoshuaB|JoshuaB]] 19:38, 10 March 2012 (EST)

'''Each point is addressed below''':

*'''logic''': man has a sense of humor, and man was created in the image of God. Hence God has a sense of humor.
:''Man, possesses many qualities that God would have no need for, both psychological and biological. Conversely God has boundless abilities that man does not posses. Therefore it's pointless to speculate on qualities God may have based on those manifested by mankind.''

::No, this would deny many other emotions that God sure does have: love, joy, sorrow, anger, etc., all documented in the Bible.

*'''history''': man's sense of humor improved with the discovery and expansion of Christianity, which indicates their strong correlation
:''This doesn't even make sense.''

::A non-response requires no answer, but humor developed immensely along with Christianity, and arguably did not exist except in a very simple way before Christianity.
::"[humor]arguably did not exist except in a very simple way before Christianity." - Ever read any Aristophanes? Or Plautus?--[[User:MihailD|MihailD]] 16:41, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

*'''politics''': atheistic political figures are known for their lack of a sense of humor, such as [[Attila the Hun]], which suggests that the opposite of God is a lack of sense of humor.
:''And the Grand Ayatollah Khomeini was a regular barrel of laughs.''

::Again, a non-response requires no answer. Are you claiming something about his sense of humor?

*'''religious''': the encounter on the road to Emmaus, described at [[Luke_17-24_(Translated)#Chapter_24|Luke 25:13-31]], strongly suggests that God has intervened in amusing ways.
:''You may have a point with this one, I am sure atheists, theists of other faiths, and non-literalist Christians, find much to laugh at.''

::That doesn't merit a response either.

*'''scientific''': snowstorms have disrupted [[global warming]] conferences; regions that promote the global warming hoax have been subjected to brutally cold weather.
:''So when God causes record breaking warm winters, are those the jokes that bomb?''

::You have to explain yourself better if you want a response.

*'''athletic''': [[Tim Tebow]]'s completion of ten passes for 316 yards, at 31.6 yards per competition, in his stunning playoff victory against the [[Pittsburgh Steelers]], echoed his promotion of [[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_3|John 3:16]].
:''I wasn't aware that statistical anomalies, commonly known as coincidences, were considered "humor".''--[[User:JoshuaB|JoshuaB]] 19:38, 10 March 2012 (EST)

::The likelihood of such "statistical anomalies" is vanishingly small.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:29, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:::"The likelihood of such "statistical anomalies" is vanishingly small." Well, let's see. A QB is going to throw for some number of yards between 0 and (say) 600 and complete somewhere between 0 and (say) 40 passes. Given how Tebow was used last year, the range is probably much smaller for each, but let's go with that. So the odds of coincidentally completing 10 passes for 316 yards is (at most) 1 in 24,000. Then we'd have to divide that by the number of other verses he's had on his eye black (there are at least two: Proverbs 3:5-6[http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_uf/2009/09/tebow-draws-more-attention-for-eyeblack-messages.html] and Philippians 4:13 [http://www.christianpost.com/news/tim-tebow-explains-why-he-tebows-uses-bible-verses-70824/]). So now we're down to at most 1 in 8,000. We could stop there, but I'd probably divide by the number of NFL games he's started (1 in 571) or at least the number of playoff games he's started (1 in 4,000). I suppose it's open to interpretations, but I wouldn't call that "vanishingly small" and think it's well within the realm of coincidence. [[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 01:07, 11 March 2012 (EST)

::::Your analysis is interesting, but does not include the small likelihood of the Broncos making the playoffs and defeating America's most (or second most) popular team, the Steelers - and thereby generating the enormous publicity. That probability alone was probably only 1 in 1000. Using your 1 in 24,000 likelihood for throwing for 10 passes for 316 yards, the overall probability of what happened is less than 1 in a million - far less than a reasonable coincidence. The other verses, by the way, do not compare with [[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_3|John 3:16]] in significance.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 08:41, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::But the question remains: what is so funny about something being unlikely? I think most people, atheists and Christians alike, would call such a statistical anomaly striking rather than funny. As far as the other examples are concerned: if that is supposed to be God's repertoire, I am afraid He would make a lousy stand-up comedian. [[User:Baobab|Baobab]] 10:46, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::Perhaps it takes a good sense of humor to appreciate it. Some (other than God) do take sports games very, very seriously, but to most people they are a source of entertainment and amusement. Cal Berkeley's unlikely last-second victory over John Elway's Stanford team in 1981 or 1982, with the repeated laterals on the final kick-off return, was very serious to some (including Elway and the players), but was replayed repeatedly on television for amusement rather than serious news.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:21, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::The problem with using this sort of probability computation for this sort of coincidence to determine whether it arose due to chance is that you are doing it ''ex post''. To borrow an example from John Allen Paulos's ''Innumeracy'', it would be nonsense to look at a bridge hand of 13 cards from a deck of 52, conclude that the probability of that particular hand's having been dealt is less than 1 over 600 billion, and therefore conclude that it must not have arisen due to chance. Seeing a coincidence and then trying to examine after the fact what the probability would have been for such a coincidence to occur to illustrate miraculous behavior is a classic example of the [[sharpshooter fallacy]]. [[User:GregG|GregG]] 16:00, 11 March 2012 (EDT)
:Andy, I just want to make sure I understand correctly: The duck-billed platypus was designed to amuse us, red autumn foliage was designed to impress us with its breath-taking beauty, Tebow's 316 yard pass was guided to promote John 3:16. Fine. On the other hand, last year's tsunami was entirely due to entropy, right? No humorous message there? --[[User:FrederickT3|FrederickT3]] 16:25, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

::I don't think anyone claims that God is responsible for '''''everything''''' that happens in the world. Surely no one would suggest that the CEO of a company is responsible for everything that happens in his company.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:55, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
:::So God simply let the 2004 tsunami kill '''230,000''' people? Because he was busy cracking jokes somewhere else in His creation? [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 11:09, 18 February 2013 (EST)

::::I don't think God spends all his time watching everything that happens or might happen in this world. Why would He?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:15, 18 February 2013 (EST)
::::::Because He is omniscient. [[User:CarsonP|CarsonP]] 12:26, 18 February 2013 (EST)

:::::::God is omniscient only when He wants to be. Frequently in the [[Old Testament]] God makes inquiries to gain knowledge about what people are doing.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:51, 18 February 2013 (EST)
::::::::Partial omniscience? Are you serious?! [[User:JohanZ|JohanZ]] 15:21, 18 February 2013 (EST)
::::::::God is always omniscient. [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm#IID1] God is also immutable, that is unchanging. [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm#IIC] When God asks a question, He already knows the answer, cf. [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3&version=NIV Genesis 3]. There are many attributes and actions of God that we men cannot comprehend. To attempt to pigeonhole the Almighty into human terms is a disservice to His omnipotence. [[User:GregG|GregG]] 21:26, 18 February 2013 (EST)
::::::Maybe He knows, but He wants the person to make an honest report. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 12:53, 18 February 2013 (EST)
:::::::@Aschlafly: so devastating disasters may catch God unaware (while many people must have shouted out to Him), but at the same time He chooses to unleash brutal snowstorms in regions that promote the global warming hoax? The snowstorms are His work, but the tsunamis are not? How can anyone love a God who jokes around while 230,000 people are drowning? [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 14:32, 18 February 2013 (EST)

::::::I don't think every weather event is a [[miracle]]. I daresay God leaves the climate "on automatic" most of the time. As to devastation, if people would cooperate better they could get through storms and hurricanes much better.

::::::The thousand people who drowned when [[Hurricane Katrina]] hit New Orleans '''could have''' stayed on higher ground. Authorities '''might have''' require evacuation of all parts of the city that are below sea level. But as I understand it, the mayor and governor (both Democrats) refused assistance and rejected advice of the federal government (led by a Republican president).

::::::It's not God who is uncaring. I blame politicians who are more interested in maintaining their power base than in actually helping people. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 09:44, 19 February 2013 (EST)

:::::::Ed Poor, let's say better cooperation could have saved 100,000 people in the 2004 tsunami. That would still have left 140,000 innocent people dead. A caring God? Being omnipotent, He could have intervened in New Orleans when He saw Democrats making a mess of it, but somehow He chose not to, letting almost 2,000 people die. A caring God? [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 11:18, 19 February 2013 (EST)

== Seriously? Revisited... ==
Mr. Schlafly, for some reason you chose to respond to my post to basically state that my post... wasn't worth... responding to... huh? Anyway, to cut to the chase, I'm not sure what's creating this "mystery" for you. The Bible contains several examples of God laughing which, to me, would seem like case closed. So instead of writing an article cataloging God's humor as expressed in scripture, you instead trot out a list of dubious claims. I think the only true mystery here is why you wrote this article. --[[User:JoshuaB|JoshuaB]] 19:06, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

== Umberto Eco ==

This is a key question in the novel ''The Name of the Rose'' by Umberto Eco. There is a faction of monks who insist that Jesus never laughed, since if He had a sense of humor it would destroy their particular interpretation of the Gospels. I'd recommend that novel to anyone interested in this topic.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:46, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
:It's been ages since I read that book, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that their argument was based on a flimsy argument from silence. [[User:DavidE|DavidE]] 11:43, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
::Yes I think so, but my point is that some people historically have considered the question of God's sense of humor (or lack of it) a crucial theological question. I doubt Eco made the idea up out of nothing. So this discussion has a fine pedigree.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 12:04, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

:::As always, your comments are insightful, CPalmer. I think there are instances reflecting humor in the Gospels, but they are not easy to find. One instance may be when Jesus caused the tree to wither upon realizing that it had no fruit.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 01:14, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

== Scripture as a guide ==

1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Using this as a guide, God's blandest humor is funnier than the planet's most celebrated comedian. Personally, I think it will be challenging to document emotions. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 16:44, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

== I don't think it is a mystery of whether or not God has a sense of humor ==

I don't think it is a mystery of whether or not God has a sense of humor as can be readily seen through this verse of the Bible: "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." - Psalm 2:4 (KJV)[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 11:12, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
:As always, the Bible is the best source. [[User:DavidE|DavidE]] 11:37, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
::There are other reasons to laugh than humor, though. This sounds more like a laugh of defiance.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:43, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
:::CPalmer, I realize there are multiple definitions of the word [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/defy?s=t defy], but in most cases it means challenge the authority of. God is the ultimate being in terms of power so to speak of God being defiant seems odd. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:58, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
::::Challenging authority, exactly. That is what the passage is about - the worldly leaders are sure of their own authority, but God rejects it with a laugh. I don't think God is amused - He just wants to show His scorn for those who set themselves against Him.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 10:40, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
:::::(I'm not saying that I definitely think God doesn't have a sense of humour. I just don't think that one verse closes the case.)--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:07, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

== Attila the Hun ==

[[Attila the Hun]] was notorious for his lack of a sense of humor, and hence he should remain as an example.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:57, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

== Question ==
Hi Andy. Based on your reading of the available evidence, what kind of material is God most likely to find humorous? I've got a few script ideas kicking around and it would be nice to tailor them for maximum divine amusement. --[[User:JohanZ|JohanZ]] 15:24, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

== Easter Island ==

Are you saying that archeologists are mistaken in saying that the statues were created by the Rapa Nui? [[User:RayM|RayM]] 09:21, 29 July 2012 (EDT)

:Yeah, that one's pretty silly to be honest. [[User:Cmurphynz|Cmurphynz]] 20:27, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

== Guillen ==

Guillen was suspended for voicing admiration for ''Castro'', not his longevity, in Miami, a town with a large anti-Castro, Cuban refugee population. He could have spoken favorably about Castro's ''beard'', and he probably still would have been suspended. There is no humor in his comments. [[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 17:15, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

Latin

2013-02-18T19:41:34Z

Onestone: Removed "It was this tendency that led to the change from an inflected language to a more analytic one in the case of the Romance languages". That is not the true cause of this development

'''Latin''' is an [[Indo-European language]] of the [[Italic language]] family. Its closest relative was [[Umbric]], which is now extinct. Latin was the most widely spoken language in the [[Roman Empire]], and is the language from which all the [[Romance languages]] are derived. These languages include [[Spanish]], [[Romanian]], [[Portuguese]], [[Italian]], [[French]] and [[Catalan]], among others. '''Latin''' may also refer to people who speak Romance languages (most commonly Spanish or Portuguese) in the Carribean and in Central or South America.

See also [[Latino]] about [[Americans]] of Hispanic or Latin American (usually Spanish-speaking) descent in the United States.

== Latin Grammar ==

Latin [[grammar]] is marked by an extensive system of [[noun]] [[Grammatical case|cases]] and [[verb]]al inflection. Like nouns, [[adjective]]s also decline and must agree with the nouns they modify in terms of gender, [[number (grammar)|number]] and case. In addition, Latin also has the full range of other parts of speech, including [[adverb]]s and [[pronoun]]s.

=== Nouns ===

In Latin, noun cases are used to indicate the grammatical function of the noun within the sentence. By contrast, English and most modern Romance languages use the noun's position within the sentence to denote its grammatical function.

Nouns all have grammatical [[grammar|gender]] (either masculine, feminine or neuter). While nouns that correspond to people will generally match the logical gender (for example, ''puella'', meaning "girl" is feminine, while ''puer'', meaning "boy" is masculine), other nouns which do not have a natural gender will still have a grammatical gender (for example, ''arbor'', meaning "tree" is feminine, ''portus'', "harbor" is masculine, and ''bellum'', "war" is neuter). Most neuter words end in ''-um'' or ''-e'' in the nominative case.

Each Latin noun falls into one of five declensions, which will determine the endings used to indicate case. Latin has six major grammatical cases as indicated below:

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Case
! Grammatical Function
! Example Paradigm (1st Declension Singular)
|-
| '''Nominative'''
| Subject
| Puella
|-
| '''Vocative'''
| Object of Direct Address
| Puella
|-

| '''Accusative'''
| Direct Object; also used with certain prepositions, mostly concerning motion
| Puellam
|-
| '''Genitive'''
| Possessive; also used with certain prepositions; translated 'of the ...'
| Puellae
|-
| '''Dative'''
| Indirect Object; also used with certain prepositions; translated 'to/for the...'
| Puellae
|-
| '''Ablative'''
| Used with certain prepositions, mostly concerning location; also indicates agency in passive constructions; translated 'by/with/from the...'
| Puellā
|-
|}

Note that certain cases are identical to others (they may vary in other declensions); in situations where there is more than one possible case for a particular noun, the case must be determined from the context of the sentence. In Latin dictionaries, nouns listed will indicate the nominative and the genitive singular forms of the noun; this enables an experienced reader to determine the rest of that noun's declension, even if he or she has not encountered it before. Thus the noun in the example above would be listed ''puella, -ae'' in a Latin dictionary.

=== Verbs ===

Verbal morphology distinguishes [[voice (grammar)|voice]] (active and passive), time (past, present, future), [[mood (grammar)|mood]] (indicative, imperative, subjunctive, infinitive), [[aspect (grammar)|aspect]] (simple, perfective, imperfective), and [[person (grammar)|person]] (first, second, and third person in singular and plural numbers). Time and aspect are normally combined into the verb's tense. Unlike English, which uses auxiliary verbs to create a wide variety of tenses, Latin just has six (four in the subjunctive mood).

{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Tense
! Time
! Aspect
! Grammatical Function
! Example Paradigm (3rd Conjugation, first person singular active indicative)
|-
| Present
| Present
| Simple or Imperfective
| Used to indicate both the present simple and present progressive.
| dico
|-
| Imperfect
| Past
| Imperfective
| Used to indicate ongoing actions in the past (which may or may not continue to the present).
| dicebam
|-
| Perfect
| Past
| Simple or Perfective
| Used to indicate both the past simple and specifically completed actions in the past.
| dixi
|-
| Pluperfect
| Past
| Perfective
| Used to indicate actions completed prior to other actions in the past.
| dixeram
|-
| Future
| Future
| Simple
| Used to indicate actions that will occur in the future.
| dicam
|-
| Future Perfect
| Future
| Perfective
| Used to indicate actions that are not complete now, but will be in the future. Usually this means actions that occur after the present but prior to other actions in the future tense.
| dixero
|}

Like nouns, the morphology of verbs in Latin is mostly indicated by regular changes in how the verb is formed, rather than through the use of auxiliary verbs, as is common in English. Most verbs fall into one of four conjugations which determine the form and the endings used to indicate the various aspects of morphology. Unlike nouns however, there are a number of irregular verbs that do not fall into any conjugation.

Latin verbs in the dictionary customarily show their four principal parts, the first person singular present active, the infinitive, the first person singular perfect active, and the supine (a form of verbal noun). Thus, the verb meaning "to say" would be listed in the dictionary as ''dico, dicere, dixi, dictum''. Using this information, an experienced Latinist can derive all of the other forms of the verb.

Latin verbs also have specialized forms including [[gerund]]s (verbal nouns mostly found only in earlier Latin), gerundives (verbal adjectives used to express necessity or obligation), [[participle]]s, and others.

== Syntax ==

Because Latin is so highly inflected, in simple sentences, [[Grammar#Syntax|word order]] is irrelevant. Thus ''Canis puerum mordet'' (The dog bites the boy) has exactly the same meaning as ''Mordet canis puerum'' or ''Puerum mordet canis''. Nevertheless, Latin did have the tendency to settle into customary word orders, generally with the verb at the end of the sentence.

When translating, it is always important to pay close attention to the words at the beginning and end of a sentence. This position connotes the importance of the word to the writer's thought, if not the actual meaning as in English.

Latin poetry, in particular, takes advantage of the flexibility of the word position in order to create pleasing minglings of grammatically unrelated words as word play or to provide secondary meanings. The flexibility of the word position also made it easier for Latin poets to conform to a particular metre. {{who says}}

== Linguistic Descendants ==

The modern Romance languages are almost entirely descended from Vulgar Latin, which was Latin spoken by the common people in the later centuries of the Roman Empire. Changes from Classical to Vulgar Latin included the merger of long /e:/ and /o:/ with short /i/ and /u/, respectively, the loss of /h/ and the accusative nasalization, and the replacement of cases, tenses, and voices with periphrastic constructions (this change occurred across western Europe)<ref>[http://www.lrc.columbia.edu/lrc/?q=node/194 Columbia University Language Resource Center]</ref>. Latin has also given us the alphabet used to write most Western European languages, including English.

Direct modern descendants of Latin include French, Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, Romanian, Italian and a variety of less well known languages. Collectively, these are known as Romance languages. In addition, many other languages, such as English and German, have large numbers of Latin loanwords that have been absorbed into the language.

Latin was also the language used by educated elites throughout the [[Middle Ages]] and [[the Renaissance]] in Western Europe. Thus a wide variety of medieval literature, ranging from theological works to histories to scientific works to legal records to literature were all written in Latin, not the author's mother tongue. This had the advantage of facilitating communication between educated people throughout Europe.

Until 1962, Latin was the language in which all Roman [[Catholic]] masses were conducted. A number of Roman Catholics still conduct Mass in Latin, and Latin is still the official language of the Roman Catholic Church. Phonologically, Latin is generally similar to other western languages of the Indo-European family.{{who says}}

== Contemporary Latin Use ==

Much of the Latin read nowadays is [[literature]] written during the latter days of the [[Roman Republic]] and during the [[Roman Empire]]. In particular, the first century BC is considered a golden age of Latin literature, with such notable poets as [[Catullus]], [[Horace]] and [[Virgil]], historians such as [[Livy]] and other writers such as [[Cicero]]. Many other Roman writers outside of the first century BC, such as [[Plautus]], [[Seneca]], [[Juvenal]] and [[Tacitus]], are important authors whose works continue to be influential in modern culture and literature. In addition to being enjoyed in their own right, they are also important for the study of Roman history and culture.

In addition, many of the Fathers of the Church, such as [[Augustine]] and [[Gregory the Great]], wrote in Latin. One of the most important translations of the Bible was the Latin [[Vulgate]] by [[Jerome]], which was completed in the fourth century AD and allowed the common people (Lat. ''vulgus'') to understand the Bible in their native language instead of Hebrew or Greek.

Today, Latin remains the official language of the Catholic Church, although the Vatican II council removed the requirement for services to be conducted in Latin. Ecclesiastical Latin (aka "Church Latin"), as it is known, is pronounced similar to modern Italian as opposed to classic Roman pronunciation. In the main, however, Latin is not spoken anymore; and as such oral Latin is not taught in most schools; the emphasis is on translation.

Latin was also highly important in the development of law, both because of the highly influential [[Justinian Code|Civil Code of Justinian]] and because of the use of Latin in the composition of the writs used in English [[Common Law]]. The persistence of Latin may be seen in legal terms such as "[[certiorari|writ of certiorari]]" or "[[Adjournment Sine Die|adjournment sine die]]".

Latin (along with Greek) is also used by scientists of all kinds, from biologists to chemists. Latin is particularly used when naming things such as biological species or chemical elements. Latin terms are also used extensively in medicine, recognizing the significance of medieval medical schools.

For many, however, the attractiveness of learning Latin comes from the fact that it shows intellectual ability; many of those who study the language will not enter a field directly related to it.

== Further reading ==

* John F. Collins, ''A Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin'', Catholic University of America Press (1985), ISBN 0-8132-0667-7 An introductory Latin text based mainly on medieval ecclesiastical sources.
* Nicholas Ostler, '' Ad Infinitum: a Biography of Latin'', Walker and Company, New York (2007) ISBN 0-8027-1515-X A history of the Latin language.
* Bob Moore and Maxine Moore, '' Dictionary of Latin and Greek Origins: a Comprehensive Guide to the Classical Origins of English Words'', Barnes and Noble, Inc, New York (2000) ISBN 0-7607-2082-7

== References ==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Latin]]
[[Category:Romance languages]]
[[Category:Latin Phrases]]

Talk:Mystery:Does God Have a Sense of Humor?

2013-02-18T19:32:01Z

Onestone: /* Seriously? */

== Yes ==

He does, but He doesn't intervene with modern times. Tim Tebow's 316 yards is just a coincidence, and there isn't much reason to think otherwise. [[User:JLefkowitz|JLefkowitz]] 17:55, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:If God has a sense of humor, then it seems highly implausible that He would not intervene to enjoy the humor. Under your view, what would God find funny if not by intervention?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:23, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Obviously, God is infinitely great, a sense of humor is a good quality. If He was lacking it, He wouldn't be infinitely great. Therefore he must have not only a sense of humor, but an infinitely great and perfect sense of humor. --[[User:CraigF|CraigF]] 14:04, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

*[[User:FrancisB52|FrancisB52]] 16:01, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

Of course God has a sense of humor. Archbishop Fulton Sheen did an episode on that in his show Life is Worth Living, and you can look it up on YouTube (look for Fulton Sheen Divine Sense of Humor). Humor is a recognition of the Truth, and pointing that out. So, of course God has a great sense of humor. --[[User:Wayfinder|Wayfinder]] 15:57, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

I most definately believe so. There are many times where I feel a force beyond this world is playing a joke on me. Who else but God has that power? I'm also no stranger to joking around, so I can take it. It's never anything serious, just things like PSN always doing maintenence when I try to log on. There's also the times when I need to mentor younger kids and I get the ones that are exactly like me at that age. When I get annoyed by something they did, my parents or some other adult that knew me at that age will say "you were just like that." Whenever things like that happen, I just casually look up and think/pray "haha I see what you just did." A practical joke by God or not, it sure does help with the minor irritants in life. Plus we are created in God's image. I like to interperate that as "asside from sin, God has all the traits we have and then some." Humor wasn't a sin last time I checked.--[[User:Pokematic|Pokematic]] 21:29, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

== No ==

== Not applicable ==

God is not a human being and is above human psychological traits. The "logic" argument appears to create God in the image of man, which verges on the blasphemous. The argument is fallacious: Just replace "sense of humor" with some less pleasant traits, like "Man has to relieve himself regularly in the bathroom. Does God have to go to the bathroom?" Obviously not! As regards the history argument, you should read the comedies of [[Aristophanes]], written around 400 BC. They are very funny! --[[User:FrederickT3|FrederickT3]] 18:09, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:Emotions like humor are not physical. God surely does have other emotions like love, anger, sorrow, joy, etc., and man has them as well after being created in God's image.

:Pre-Christian Greek "humor" tends to be very simple, and barely funny by today's more sophisticated standards as developed by the Christian world.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:34, 10 March 2012 (EST)

::Really? Maybe you just got a bad translation. Aristophanes is pretty good, although his humor is pretty 'adult' (or would juvenile be a better word?). Anyway, I would expect someone who was brought up with modern, western humor to find Ancient Greek humor slightly less funny than someone that was brought up on it. [[User:Cmurphynz|Cmurphynz]] 20:26, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

== Atilla the Hun ==

I had no idea this guy was a leading political leader! Which elections did he run in? Which party did he belong to? - was it the Democrats? Just joking - this article is supposed to be about a sense of humour. By the way, watch the British comedy 'The thick of it' if you want to fully appreciate political humour. On second thoughts maybe 'yes minister' might be more your style - it's less sweary. [[User:EJamesW|EJamesW]] 18:13, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:Politics is a broader concept than [[democracy]]. Or do you think that [[Julius Caesar]] was not a political leader?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:25, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Here's the last known clip of Julius Caesar meeting a voter! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvs4bOMv5Xw He he [[User:EJamesW|EJamesW]] 18:33, 10 March 2012 (EST)

::Of course he was a political leader, but I hadn't realised that Atilla was an atheist. I would have expected him to worship whatever pagan gods the Huns worshipped at the time. Very few non-Christians at that time would have been atheists; or is there a specific reference to support Atilla's atheism?--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:33, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

:::Note that Conservapedia's own Attila the Hun article says that he "relied on seers and "gods"".--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:34, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

== Seriously? ==

*'''logic''': man has a sense of humor, and man was created in the image of God. Hence God has a sense of humor.
:''Man, possesses many qualities that God would have no need for, both psychological and biological. Conversely God has boundless abilities that man does not posses. Therefore it's pointless to speculate on qualities God may have based on those manifested by mankind.''
*'''history''': man's sense of humor improved with the discovery and expansion of Christianity, which indicates their strong correlation.
:''This doesn't even make sense.''
*'''politics''': atheistic political figures are known for their lack of a sense of humor, such as [[Attila the Hun]], which suggests that the opposite of God is a lack of sense of humor.
:''And the Grand Ayatollah Khomeini was a regular barrel of laughs.''
*'''religious''': the encounter on the road to Emmaus, described at [[Luke_17-24_(Translated)#Chapter_24|Luke 25:13-31]], strongly suggests that God has intervened in amusing ways.
:''You may have a point with this one, I am sure atheists, theists of other faiths, and non-literalist Christians, find much to laugh at.''
*'''scientific''': snowstorms have disrupted [[global warming]] conferences; regions that promote the global warming hoax have been subjected to brutally cold weather.
:''So when God causes record breaking warm winters, are those the jokes that bomb?''
*'''athletic''': [[Tim Tebow]]'s completion of ten passes for 316 yards, at 31.6 yards per competition, in his stunning playoff victory against the [[Pittsburgh Steelers]], echoed his promotion of [[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_3|John 3:16]].
:''I wasn't aware that statistical anomalies, commonly known as coincidences, were considered "humor".''--[[User:JoshuaB|JoshuaB]] 19:38, 10 March 2012 (EST)

'''Each point is addressed below''':

*'''logic''': man has a sense of humor, and man was created in the image of God. Hence God has a sense of humor.
:''Man, possesses many qualities that God would have no need for, both psychological and biological. Conversely God has boundless abilities that man does not posses. Therefore it's pointless to speculate on qualities God may have based on those manifested by mankind.''

::No, this would deny many other emotions that God sure does have: love, joy, sorrow, anger, etc., all documented in the Bible.

*'''history''': man's sense of humor improved with the discovery and expansion of Christianity, which indicates their strong correlation
:''This doesn't even make sense.''

::A non-response requires no answer, but humor developed immensely along with Christianity, and arguably did not exist except in a very simple way before Christianity.
::"[humor]arguably did not exist except in a very simple way before Christianity." - Ever read any Aristophanes? Or Plautus?--[[User:MihailD|MihailD]] 16:41, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

*'''politics''': atheistic political figures are known for their lack of a sense of humor, such as [[Attila the Hun]], which suggests that the opposite of God is a lack of sense of humor.
:''And the Grand Ayatollah Khomeini was a regular barrel of laughs.''

::Again, a non-response requires no answer. Are you claiming something about his sense of humor?

*'''religious''': the encounter on the road to Emmaus, described at [[Luke_17-24_(Translated)#Chapter_24|Luke 25:13-31]], strongly suggests that God has intervened in amusing ways.
:''You may have a point with this one, I am sure atheists, theists of other faiths, and non-literalist Christians, find much to laugh at.''

::That doesn't merit a response either.

*'''scientific''': snowstorms have disrupted [[global warming]] conferences; regions that promote the global warming hoax have been subjected to brutally cold weather.
:''So when God causes record breaking warm winters, are those the jokes that bomb?''

::You have to explain yourself better if you want a response.

*'''athletic''': [[Tim Tebow]]'s completion of ten passes for 316 yards, at 31.6 yards per competition, in his stunning playoff victory against the [[Pittsburgh Steelers]], echoed his promotion of [[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_3|John 3:16]].
:''I wasn't aware that statistical anomalies, commonly known as coincidences, were considered "humor".''--[[User:JoshuaB|JoshuaB]] 19:38, 10 March 2012 (EST)

::The likelihood of such "statistical anomalies" is vanishingly small.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:29, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:::"The likelihood of such "statistical anomalies" is vanishingly small." Well, let's see. A QB is going to throw for some number of yards between 0 and (say) 600 and complete somewhere between 0 and (say) 40 passes. Given how Tebow was used last year, the range is probably much smaller for each, but let's go with that. So the odds of coincidentally completing 10 passes for 316 yards is (at most) 1 in 24,000. Then we'd have to divide that by the number of other verses he's had on his eye black (there are at least two: Proverbs 3:5-6[http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_uf/2009/09/tebow-draws-more-attention-for-eyeblack-messages.html] and Philippians 4:13 [http://www.christianpost.com/news/tim-tebow-explains-why-he-tebows-uses-bible-verses-70824/]). So now we're down to at most 1 in 8,000. We could stop there, but I'd probably divide by the number of NFL games he's started (1 in 571) or at least the number of playoff games he's started (1 in 4,000). I suppose it's open to interpretations, but I wouldn't call that "vanishingly small" and think it's well within the realm of coincidence. [[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 01:07, 11 March 2012 (EST)

::::Your analysis is interesting, but does not include the small likelihood of the Broncos making the playoffs and defeating America's most (or second most) popular team, the Steelers - and thereby generating the enormous publicity. That probability alone was probably only 1 in 1000. Using your 1 in 24,000 likelihood for throwing for 10 passes for 316 yards, the overall probability of what happened is less than 1 in a million - far less than a reasonable coincidence. The other verses, by the way, do not compare with [[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_3|John 3:16]] in significance.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 08:41, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::But the question remains: what is so funny about something being unlikely? I think most people, atheists and Christians alike, would call such a statistical anomaly striking rather than funny. As far as the other examples are concerned: if that is supposed to be God's repertoire, I am afraid He would make a lousy stand-up comedian. [[User:Baobab|Baobab]] 10:46, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::Perhaps it takes a good sense of humor to appreciate it. Some (other than God) do take sports games very, very seriously, but to most people they are a source of entertainment and amusement. Cal Berkeley's unlikely last-second victory over John Elway's Stanford team in 1981 or 1982, with the repeated laterals on the final kick-off return, was very serious to some (including Elway and the players), but was replayed repeatedly on television for amusement rather than serious news.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:21, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::The problem with using this sort of probability computation for this sort of coincidence to determine whether it arose due to chance is that you are doing it ''ex post''. To borrow an example from John Allen Paulos's ''Innumeracy'', it would be nonsense to look at a bridge hand of 13 cards from a deck of 52, conclude that the probability of that particular hand's having been dealt is less than 1 over 600 billion, and therefore conclude that it must not have arisen due to chance. Seeing a coincidence and then trying to examine after the fact what the probability would have been for such a coincidence to occur to illustrate miraculous behavior is a classic example of the [[sharpshooter fallacy]]. [[User:GregG|GregG]] 16:00, 11 March 2012 (EDT)
:Andy, I just want to make sure I understand correctly: The duck-billed platypus was designed to amuse us, red autumn foliage was designed to impress us with its breath-taking beauty, Tebow's 316 yard pass was guided to promote John 3:16. Fine. On the other hand, last year's tsunami was entirely due to entropy, right? No humorous message there? --[[User:FrederickT3|FrederickT3]] 16:25, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

::I don't think anyone claims that God is responsible for '''''everything''''' that happens in the world. Surely no one would suggest that the CEO of a company is responsible for everything that happens in his company.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:55, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
:::So God simply let the 2004 tsunami kill '''230,000''' people? Because he was busy cracking jokes somewhere else in His creation? [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 11:09, 18 February 2013 (EST)

::::I don't think God spends all his time watching everything that happens or might happen in this world. Why would He?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:15, 18 February 2013 (EST)
::::::Because He is omniscient. [[User:CarsonP|CarsonP]] 12:26, 18 February 2013 (EST)

:::::::God is omniscient only when He wants to be. Frequently in the [[Old Testament]] God makes inquiries to gain knowledge about what people are doing.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:51, 18 February 2013 (EST)

::::::Maybe He knows, but He wants the person to make an honest report. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 12:53, 18 February 2013 (EST)
:::::::@Aschlafly: so devastating disasters may catch God unaware (while many people must have shouted out to Him), but at the same time He chooses to unleash brutal snowstorms in regions that promote the global warming hoax? The snowstorms are His work, but the tsunamis are not? How can anyone love a God who jokes around while 230,000 people are drowning? [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 14:32, 18 February 2013 (EST)

== Seriously? Revisited... ==
Mr. Schlafly, for some reason you chose to respond to my post to basically state that my post... wasn't worth... responding to... huh? Anyway, to cut to the chase, I'm not sure what's creating this "mystery" for you. The Bible contains several examples of God laughing which, to me, would seem like case closed. So instead of writing an article cataloging God's humor as expressed in scripture, you instead trot out a list of dubious claims. I think the only true mystery here is why you wrote this article. --[[User:JoshuaB|JoshuaB]] 19:06, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

== Umberto Eco ==

This is a key question in the novel ''The Name of the Rose'' by Umberto Eco. There is a faction of monks who insist that Jesus never laughed, since if He had a sense of humor it would destroy their particular interpretation of the Gospels. I'd recommend that novel to anyone interested in this topic.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:46, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
:It's been ages since I read that book, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that their argument was based on a flimsy argument from silence. [[User:DavidE|DavidE]] 11:43, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
::Yes I think so, but my point is that some people historically have considered the question of God's sense of humor (or lack of it) a crucial theological question. I doubt Eco made the idea up out of nothing. So this discussion has a fine pedigree.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 12:04, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

:::As always, your comments are insightful, CPalmer. I think there are instances reflecting humor in the Gospels, but they are not easy to find. One instance may be when Jesus caused the tree to wither upon realizing that it had no fruit.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 01:14, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

== Scripture as a guide ==

1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Using this as a guide, God's blandest humor is funnier than the planet's most celebrated comedian. Personally, I think it will be challenging to document emotions. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 16:44, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

== I don't think it is a mystery of whether or not God has a sense of humor ==

I don't think it is a mystery of whether or not God has a sense of humor as can be readily seen through this verse of the Bible: "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." - Psalm 2:4 (KJV)[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 11:12, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
:As always, the Bible is the best source. [[User:DavidE|DavidE]] 11:37, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
::There are other reasons to laugh than humor, though. This sounds more like a laugh of defiance.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:43, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
:::CPalmer, I realize there are multiple definitions of the word [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/defy?s=t defy], but in most cases it means challenge the authority of. God is the ultimate being in terms of power so to speak of God being defiant seems odd. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:58, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
::::Challenging authority, exactly. That is what the passage is about - the worldly leaders are sure of their own authority, but God rejects it with a laugh. I don't think God is amused - He just wants to show His scorn for those who set themselves against Him.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 10:40, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
:::::(I'm not saying that I definitely think God doesn't have a sense of humour. I just don't think that one verse closes the case.)--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:07, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

== Attila the Hun ==

[[Attila the Hun]] was notorious for his lack of a sense of humor, and hence he should remain as an example.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:57, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

== Question ==
Hi Andy. Based on your reading of the available evidence, what kind of material is God most likely to find humorous? I've got a few script ideas kicking around and it would be nice to tailor them for maximum divine amusement. --[[User:JohanZ|JohanZ]] 15:24, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

== Easter Island ==

Are you saying that archeologists are mistaken in saying that the statues were created by the Rapa Nui? [[User:RayM|RayM]] 09:21, 29 July 2012 (EDT)

:Yeah, that one's pretty silly to be honest. [[User:Cmurphynz|Cmurphynz]] 20:27, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

== Guillen ==

Guillen was suspended for voicing admiration for ''Castro'', not his longevity, in Miami, a town with a large anti-Castro, Cuban refugee population. He could have spoken favorably about Castro's ''beard'', and he probably still would have been suspended. There is no humor in his comments. [[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 17:15, 5 August 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Mystery:Does God Have a Sense of Humor?

2013-02-18T16:09:34Z

Onestone: /* Seriously? */

== Yes ==

He does, but He doesn't intervene with modern times. Tim Tebow's 316 yards is just a coincidence, and there isn't much reason to think otherwise. [[User:JLefkowitz|JLefkowitz]] 17:55, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:If God has a sense of humor, then it seems highly implausible that He would not intervene to enjoy the humor. Under your view, what would God find funny if not by intervention?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:23, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Obviously, God is infinitely great, a sense of humor is a good quality. If He was lacking it, He wouldn't be infinitely great. Therefore he must have not only a sense of humor, but an infinitely great and perfect sense of humor. --[[User:CraigF|CraigF]] 14:04, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

*[[User:FrancisB52|FrancisB52]] 16:01, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

Of course God has a sense of humor. Archbishop Fulton Sheen did an episode on that in his show Life is Worth Living, and you can look it up on YouTube (look for Fulton Sheen Divine Sense of Humor). Humor is a recognition of the Truth, and pointing that out. So, of course God has a great sense of humor. --[[User:Wayfinder|Wayfinder]] 15:57, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

I most definately believe so. There are many times where I feel a force beyond this world is playing a joke on me. Who else but God has that power? I'm also no stranger to joking around, so I can take it. It's never anything serious, just things like PSN always doing maintenence when I try to log on. There's also the times when I need to mentor younger kids and I get the ones that are exactly like me at that age. When I get annoyed by something they did, my parents or some other adult that knew me at that age will say "you were just like that." Whenever things like that happen, I just casually look up and think/pray "haha I see what you just did." A practical joke by God or not, it sure does help with the minor irritants in life. Plus we are created in God's image. I like to interperate that as "asside from sin, God has all the traits we have and then some." Humor wasn't a sin last time I checked.--[[User:Pokematic|Pokematic]] 21:29, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

== No ==

== Not applicable ==

God is not a human being and is above human psychological traits. The "logic" argument appears to create God in the image of man, which verges on the blasphemous. The argument is fallacious: Just replace "sense of humor" with some less pleasant traits, like "Man has to relieve himself regularly in the bathroom. Does God have to go to the bathroom?" Obviously not! As regards the history argument, you should read the comedies of [[Aristophanes]], written around 400 BC. They are very funny! --[[User:FrederickT3|FrederickT3]] 18:09, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:Emotions like humor are not physical. God surely does have other emotions like love, anger, sorrow, joy, etc., and man has them as well after being created in God's image.

:Pre-Christian Greek "humor" tends to be very simple, and barely funny by today's more sophisticated standards as developed by the Christian world.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:34, 10 March 2012 (EST)

::Really? Maybe you just got a bad translation. Aristophanes is pretty good, although his humor is pretty 'adult' (or would juvenile be a better word?). Anyway, I would expect someone who was brought up with modern, western humor to find Ancient Greek humor slightly less funny than someone that was brought up on it. [[User:Cmurphynz|Cmurphynz]] 20:26, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

== Atilla the Hun ==

I had no idea this guy was a leading political leader! Which elections did he run in? Which party did he belong to? - was it the Democrats? Just joking - this article is supposed to be about a sense of humour. By the way, watch the British comedy 'The thick of it' if you want to fully appreciate political humour. On second thoughts maybe 'yes minister' might be more your style - it's less sweary. [[User:EJamesW|EJamesW]] 18:13, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:Politics is a broader concept than [[democracy]]. Or do you think that [[Julius Caesar]] was not a political leader?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:25, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Here's the last known clip of Julius Caesar meeting a voter! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvs4bOMv5Xw He he [[User:EJamesW|EJamesW]] 18:33, 10 March 2012 (EST)

::Of course he was a political leader, but I hadn't realised that Atilla was an atheist. I would have expected him to worship whatever pagan gods the Huns worshipped at the time. Very few non-Christians at that time would have been atheists; or is there a specific reference to support Atilla's atheism?--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:33, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

:::Note that Conservapedia's own Attila the Hun article says that he "relied on seers and "gods"".--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:34, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

'''Bold text'''== Seriously? ==

*'''logic''': man has a sense of humor, and man was created in the image of God. Hence God has a sense of humor.
:''Man, possesses many qualities that God would have no need for, both psychological and biological. Conversely God has boundless abilities that man does not posses. Therefore it's pointless to speculate on qualities God may have based on those manifested by mankind.''
*'''history''': man's sense of humor improved with the discovery and expansion of Christianity, which indicates their strong correlation.
:''This doesn't even make sense.''
*'''politics''': atheistic political figures are known for their lack of a sense of humor, such as [[Attila the Hun]], which suggests that the opposite of God is a lack of sense of humor.
:''And the Grand Ayatollah Khomeini was a regular barrel of laughs.''
*'''religious''': the encounter on the road to Emmaus, described at [[Luke_17-24_(Translated)#Chapter_24|Luke 25:13-31]], strongly suggests that God has intervened in amusing ways.
:''You may have a point with this one, I am sure atheists, theists of other faiths, and non-literalist Christians, find much to laugh at.''
*'''scientific''': snowstorms have disrupted [[global warming]] conferences; regions that promote the global warming hoax have been subjected to brutally cold weather.
:''So when God causes record breaking warm winters, are those the jokes that bomb?''
*'''athletic''': [[Tim Tebow]]'s completion of ten passes for 316 yards, at 31.6 yards per competition, in his stunning playoff victory against the [[Pittsburgh Steelers]], echoed his promotion of [[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_3|John 3:16]].
:''I wasn't aware that statistical anomalies, commonly known as coincidences, were considered "humor".''--[[User:JoshuaB|JoshuaB]] 19:38, 10 March 2012 (EST)

'''Each point is addressed below''':

*'''logic''': man has a sense of humor, and man was created in the image of God. Hence God has a sense of humor.
:''Man, possesses many qualities that God would have no need for, both psychological and biological. Conversely God has boundless abilities that man does not posses. Therefore it's pointless to speculate on qualities God may have based on those manifested by mankind.''

::No, this would deny many other emotions that God sure does have: love, joy, sorrow, anger, etc., all documented in the Bible.

*'''history''': man's sense of humor improved with the discovery and expansion of Christianity, which indicates their strong correlation
:''This doesn't even make sense.''

::A non-response requires no answer, but humor developed immensely along with Christianity, and arguably did not exist except in a very simple way before Christianity.
::"[humor]arguably did not exist except in a very simple way before Christianity." - Ever read any Aristophanes? Or Plautus?--[[User:MihailD|MihailD]] 16:41, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

*'''politics''': atheistic political figures are known for their lack of a sense of humor, such as [[Attila the Hun]], which suggests that the opposite of God is a lack of sense of humor.
:''And the Grand Ayatollah Khomeini was a regular barrel of laughs.''

::Again, a non-response requires no answer. Are you claiming something about his sense of humor?

*'''religious''': the encounter on the road to Emmaus, described at [[Luke_17-24_(Translated)#Chapter_24|Luke 25:13-31]], strongly suggests that God has intervened in amusing ways.
:''You may have a point with this one, I am sure atheists, theists of other faiths, and non-literalist Christians, find much to laugh at.''

::That doesn't merit a response either.

*'''scientific''': snowstorms have disrupted [[global warming]] conferences; regions that promote the global warming hoax have been subjected to brutally cold weather.
:''So when God causes record breaking warm winters, are those the jokes that bomb?''

::You have to explain yourself better if you want a response.

*'''athletic''': [[Tim Tebow]]'s completion of ten passes for 316 yards, at 31.6 yards per competition, in his stunning playoff victory against the [[Pittsburgh Steelers]], echoed his promotion of [[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_3|John 3:16]].
:''I wasn't aware that statistical anomalies, commonly known as coincidences, were considered "humor".''--[[User:JoshuaB|JoshuaB]] 19:38, 10 March 2012 (EST)

::The likelihood of such "statistical anomalies" is vanishingly small.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:29, 10 March 2012 (EST)

:::"The likelihood of such "statistical anomalies" is vanishingly small." Well, let's see. A QB is going to throw for some number of yards between 0 and (say) 600 and complete somewhere between 0 and (say) 40 passes. Given how Tebow was used last year, the range is probably much smaller for each, but let's go with that. So the odds of coincidentally completing 10 passes for 316 yards is (at most) 1 in 24,000. Then we'd have to divide that by the number of other verses he's had on his eye black (there are at least two: Proverbs 3:5-6[http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_uf/2009/09/tebow-draws-more-attention-for-eyeblack-messages.html] and Philippians 4:13 [http://www.christianpost.com/news/tim-tebow-explains-why-he-tebows-uses-bible-verses-70824/]). So now we're down to at most 1 in 8,000. We could stop there, but I'd probably divide by the number of NFL games he's started (1 in 571) or at least the number of playoff games he's started (1 in 4,000). I suppose it's open to interpretations, but I wouldn't call that "vanishingly small" and think it's well within the realm of coincidence. [[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 01:07, 11 March 2012 (EST)

::::Your analysis is interesting, but does not include the small likelihood of the Broncos making the playoffs and defeating America's most (or second most) popular team, the Steelers - and thereby generating the enormous publicity. That probability alone was probably only 1 in 1000. Using your 1 in 24,000 likelihood for throwing for 10 passes for 316 yards, the overall probability of what happened is less than 1 in a million - far less than a reasonable coincidence. The other verses, by the way, do not compare with [[John_1-7_(Translated)#Chapter_3|John 3:16]] in significance.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 08:41, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::But the question remains: what is so funny about something being unlikely? I think most people, atheists and Christians alike, would call such a statistical anomaly striking rather than funny. As far as the other examples are concerned: if that is supposed to be God's repertoire, I am afraid He would make a lousy stand-up comedian. [[User:Baobab|Baobab]] 10:46, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

::::::Perhaps it takes a good sense of humor to appreciate it. Some (other than God) do take sports games very, very seriously, but to most people they are a source of entertainment and amusement. Cal Berkeley's unlikely last-second victory over John Elway's Stanford team in 1981 or 1982, with the repeated laterals on the final kick-off return, was very serious to some (including Elway and the players), but was replayed repeatedly on television for amusement rather than serious news.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:21, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

:::::The problem with using this sort of probability computation for this sort of coincidence to determine whether it arose due to chance is that you are doing it ''ex post''. To borrow an example from John Allen Paulos's ''Innumeracy'', it would be nonsense to look at a bridge hand of 13 cards from a deck of 52, conclude that the probability of that particular hand's having been dealt is less than 1 over 600 billion, and therefore conclude that it must not have arisen due to chance. Seeing a coincidence and then trying to examine after the fact what the probability would have been for such a coincidence to occur to illustrate miraculous behavior is a classic example of the [[sharpshooter fallacy]]. [[User:GregG|GregG]] 16:00, 11 March 2012 (EDT)
:Andy, I just want to make sure I understand correctly: The duck-billed platypus was designed to amuse us, red autumn foliage was designed to impress us with its breath-taking beauty, Tebow's 316 yard pass was guided to promote John 3:16. Fine. On the other hand, last year's tsunami was entirely due to entropy, right? No humorous message there? --[[User:FrederickT3|FrederickT3]] 16:25, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

::I don't think anyone claims that God is responsible for '''''everything''''' that happens in the world. Surely no one would suggest that the CEO of a company is responsible for everything that happens in his company.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:55, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
:::So God simply let the 2004 tsunami kill '''230,000''' people? Because he was busy cracking jokes somewhere else in His creation? [[User:Onestone|Onestone]] 11:09, 18 February 2013 (EST)

== Seriously? Revisited... ==
Mr. Schlafly, for some reason you chose to respond to my post to basically state that my post... wasn't worth... responding to... huh? Anyway, to cut to the chase, I'm not sure what's creating this "mystery" for you. The Bible contains several examples of God laughing which, to me, would seem like case closed. So instead of writing an article cataloging God's humor as expressed in scripture, you instead trot out a list of dubious claims. I think the only true mystery here is why you wrote this article. --[[User:JoshuaB|JoshuaB]] 19:06, 11 March 2012 (EDT)

== Umberto Eco ==

This is a key question in the novel ''The Name of the Rose'' by Umberto Eco. There is a faction of monks who insist that Jesus never laughed, since if He had a sense of humor it would destroy their particular interpretation of the Gospels. I'd recommend that novel to anyone interested in this topic.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:46, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
:It's been ages since I read that book, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that their argument was based on a flimsy argument from silence. [[User:DavidE|DavidE]] 11:43, 12 March 2012 (EDT)
::Yes I think so, but my point is that some people historically have considered the question of God's sense of humor (or lack of it) a crucial theological question. I doubt Eco made the idea up out of nothing. So this discussion has a fine pedigree.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 12:04, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

:::As always, your comments are insightful, CPalmer. I think there are instances reflecting humor in the Gospels, but they are not easy to find. One instance may be when Jesus caused the tree to wither upon realizing that it had no fruit.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 01:14, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

== Scripture as a guide ==

1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Using this as a guide, God's blandest humor is funnier than the planet's most celebrated comedian. Personally, I think it will be challenging to document emotions. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 16:44, 12 March 2012 (EDT)

== I don't think it is a mystery of whether or not God has a sense of humor ==

I don't think it is a mystery of whether or not God has a sense of humor as can be readily seen through this verse of the Bible: "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision." - Psalm 2:4 (KJV)[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 11:12, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
:As always, the Bible is the best source. [[User:DavidE|DavidE]] 11:37, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
::There are other reasons to laugh than humor, though. This sounds more like a laugh of defiance.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:43, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
:::CPalmer, I realize there are multiple definitions of the word [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/defy?s=t defy], but in most cases it means challenge the authority of. God is the ultimate being in terms of power so to speak of God being defiant seems odd. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 00:58, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
::::Challenging authority, exactly. That is what the passage is about - the worldly leaders are sure of their own authority, but God rejects it with a laugh. I don't think God is amused - He just wants to show His scorn for those who set themselves against Him.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 10:40, 21 March 2012 (EDT)
:::::(I'm not saying that I definitely think God doesn't have a sense of humour. I just don't think that one verse closes the case.)--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 11:07, 21 March 2012 (EDT)

== Attila the Hun ==

[[Attila the Hun]] was notorious for his lack of a sense of humor, and hence he should remain as an example.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:57, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

== Question ==
Hi Andy. Based on your reading of the available evidence, what kind of material is God most likely to find humorous? I've got a few script ideas kicking around and it would be nice to tailor them for maximum divine amusement. --[[User:JohanZ|JohanZ]] 15:24, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

== Easter Island ==

Are you saying that archeologists are mistaken in saying that the statues were created by the Rapa Nui? [[User:RayM|RayM]] 09:21, 29 July 2012 (EDT)

:Yeah, that one's pretty silly to be honest. [[User:Cmurphynz|Cmurphynz]] 20:27, 20 September 2012 (EDT)

== Guillen ==

Guillen was suspended for voicing admiration for ''Castro'', not his longevity, in Miami, a town with a large anti-Castro, Cuban refugee population. He could have spoken favorably about Castro's ''beard'', and he probably still would have been suspended. There is no humor in his comments. [[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 17:15, 5 August 2012 (EDT)