's-Hertogenbosch

2012-05-10T19:54:21Z

PenelopeP: Redirecting to the correct page (hope this is OK - it seems kinda obvious)

#REDIRECT [['s Hertogenbosch]]

Talk:'s-Hertogenbosch

2012-05-09T21:29:44Z

PenelopeP: 's Hoertogenbosch = official name of city

Should be merged into some other article, such as [[The Netherlands]]. Appears to have been created only because of it's odd spelling: it begins with a punctuation mark. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 14:37, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

:''kind of weird to start an article with a punctuation mark'' well, it's a quirk of the Dutch language: look at [[The Hague]] a.k.a. '' 's Gravenshage'', or the '' 't Hooft operator'' in theoretical physics. But while ''Den Haag'' is the official name of '' 's Gravenshage'', with ''Den Bosch'' and '' 's Hertogenbosch'' it is the other way around.

:So the move is akin to redirecting ''New York'' to ''The Big Apple.

:And ''Den Bosch'' just means ''The Forest'', not ''The Duke's Forest'' - ''Hertog'' / ''Herzog'' is duke. The '' 's'' is the relict of the article indicating the genitive: ''Des Hertogens Bosch''

:On the web-site of 's Hertogenbosch, you won't find the informal name ''Den Bosch'' prominently on display: http://www.s-hertogenbosch.nl/

:[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 14:58, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

::You want to take charge of our Dutch geography articles? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 15:21, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

:::That's too big a task (and too desolate a field, I'm afraid). I'm just correcting errors where I find them. [[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 15:25, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

:*the capital of the province of Noord-Brabant is usually called "Den Bosch," but the full, official name is " 's-Hertogenbosch " (The Duke's Forest.) [http://www.heardutchhere.net/NLPresent.html]
:So if you want to mention the official name, go ahead. (Also, it's more like calling the army's main training college "West Point", when it has a longer and more official name that is hardly ever used. It's not like calling New York the Big Apple. I live in New York and hardly ever hear that. Why would you say such and odd and untrue thing? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 15:30, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

:*The city's official name is a contraction of the Dutch des Hertogen bosch—"the Duke's forest" (Wikipedia) {{unsigned|Ed Poor}}
::Indeed, 's-Hertogenbosch is a contraction of ''des Hertogen bosch''. I mentioned that above. [[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 15:53, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

::''Why would you say such and odd and untrue thing?'' Sorry if I hurt your feeling. My, these New Yorkers are delicate flowers :-)
::When someone talks about the ''Big Apple'', everyone knows that ''New York'' is meant. That's neither ''odd'' nor ''untrue''. But this moniker is not the official name of the city, or a generally accepted abbreviation.
::Take a look at the official home-page of 's Hertogenbosch: you won't find ''Den Bosch'' mentioned. Take a look at the Dutch wikipage of [http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27s-Hertogenbosch 's Hertogenbosch]: the first section is about the name...
:::''De naam Den Haag is officieel toegestaan. Men ziet die naam op wegwijzers en bij de spoorwegen. Voor Den Bosch ligt dat anders: de enige officiële naam is 's-Hertogenbosch. Ook in andere talen wordt 's-Hertogenbosch met de lange naam aangeduid: Bois-le-Duc in het Frans, Boscoducale in het Italiaans, Bolduque in het Spaans en Herzogenbusch in het Duits. De Latijnse naam is Silva Ducis of Buscum Ducis.''
::That means something like
:::''The name ''Den Haag'' is officially accepted. You find this name on road signs and at railways. This is different for ''Den Bosch'': the only official name is 's-Hertogenbosch. In other languages the long name is also used: Bois-le-Duc in French, Boscoducale in Italian, Bolduque in Spanish en Herzogenbusch in German. The Latin name is Silva Ducis or Buscum Ducis.''
::BTW, the existence of so many translations of the name are an indicator of the historical importance of the city.
::[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 15:51, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

:::Supporting AugustO. 's Hertogenbosch is used almost everywhere the official is required, e.g. railway timetables and road signs. But Den Bosch is usually used in informal conversation. [[User:PenelopeP|PenelopeP]] 17:29, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

==Conversation in Edit Comments==
''error? what error? This is like moving ''The United States'' to ''United States''''

Moving '' 's Hertogenbosch'' to ''Hertogenbosch'' is akin to moving ''The United States of America'' to ''The United States America'' - you are losing the genitive. Moving '' 's Hertogenbosch'' to ''Den Bosch'' is like moving ''''The United States of America'' to ''States''. [[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 15:57, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

:LOL, touché. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 16:38, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

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