Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Homosexuality and Scotland

2008-03-28T13:31:08Z

SpinnakerMagic: changed 'controversies' to 'Tolerance of Homosexuality' in the title. The items mentioned in the article are not really controversial in Scotland - newsworth, yes, but..

{{Delete Notice}}

== Scotland and Tolerance of Homosexuality ==
Scotland is historically Christian, the national church is the [[Church of Scotland]] and it is sympathetic to the the [[homosexual agenda]]<ref>[http://www.churchofscotland.org.uk/generalassembly/downloads/gareports07manddchallengetounity.rtf A challenge to unity: same-sex relationships as an issue in theology and human sexuality]</ref>. This has led the leading [[conservative]] [[Christian]] [[Pat Robertson]] to describe Scotland as "dark country full of [[homosexuals]]"<ref>[http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/02/scotland.robertson/ 'Dark land' with 'strong homosexuals,' televangelist says]</ref>. This homosexual agenda is exemplified by:
* the repeal of laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in schools<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/800673.stm MSPs abolish Section 28]</ref>
* The introduction of [[secular marriage]]<ref>[www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/research/pdf_res_papers/rp01-21.pdf Secular Marriage (Scotland) Bill]</ref>
* the legalisation of [[same-sex marriage|same-sex unions]]<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4494882.stm Same-sex couples embrace equality ]</ref>
* the [[adoption]] of children by homosexuals<ref>[http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1356432006 MSPs approve gay adoption]</ref>
* teaching homosexuality in schools<ref>[http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=754672006 Schools told to give pupils gay sex advice]</ref>
* [[affirmative action]] for homosexual soldiers and policemen<ref>[http://www.gpascotland.com/050827.htm Army marches in Gay Pride parade]</ref>

* The banning of anti-gay chants at sports events<ref>[http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=387732007 Anti-gay chants to be banned from terraces]</ref>.

==See Also==
*[[Homosexuality]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:homosexuality]]
[[Category:Scottish Culture]]

Conservapedia:AFD Homosexuality and Scotland

2008-03-28T13:21:06Z

SpinnakerMagic:

More controversial than the other one, and dearer to the author's heart I'm sure. But it's just garbage.[[User:Ferret|-- Ferret]] [[User talk:Ferret|Nice old chat]] 05:38, 14 February 2008 (EST)

Strong words, but true. Apart form anything, this kind of thing undermines the credibility of the whole project. Scotland is a liberal (which I mean in the non pejorative sense - I'm a bit baffled by the (American?) use of the word) and secular democracy. Elected officials must swear allegiance to the (British) crown when taking office, but need not adhere to any particular religious beliefs. No democracy is perfect - but the nation is not enslaved to the 'Homosexual Agenda' - whatever that is. [[User:SpinnakerMagic|-- SpinnakerMagic]] 13:20, 28 March 2008 (BST)

Conservapedia:AFD Homosexuality and Scotland

2008-03-28T13:20:42Z

SpinnakerMagic:

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-06-01T14:06:43Z

SpinnakerMagic:

{{userboxtop|SpinnakerMagic}}
{{Userbox |white|white|[[Image:Lion_rampant.png‎ ]]|This User is proud to be Scottish (Wha's Like Us?)}}
{{Userbox |white|white|[[Image:Bike_symbol.gif‎ ‎ ]]|This User is a diehard cyclist}}
{{User Political Compass|-7.5|-6.41}}
{{User Evo}}
{{User en-UK}}
{{User bothered}}
{{User gay is ok}}
{{userboxbottom}}

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-06-01T13:43:59Z

SpinnakerMagic:

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-29T14:43:15Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* homosexuality and the kilt - the link */

{{Protected|TK}}

in scottland, the kilt(that spelled right?) isnt that like your family's colors? --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 11:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes Will N, the kilt is a tradtional dress still worn at weddings and social functions that is made in the clan (think family) tartan. Each tartan is comprised of colours specific to that family.

And Ed Poor, please can you stop removing the kilt picture. It is incredibly disrespectful to the Scots to remove not only a picture depicting their National dress but also their First Minister. The kilt has nothing to do with homosexuality, which frankly, is a topic that is discussed far too often on this site. [[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 12:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

== Kilts ==

Kilts are an item of dress, it is the tartan that has an association with families, or more accurately, Clan. In addition many public bodies have their own particular tartan. In the picture, Jack McConnell is seen wearing a pin-stripe kilt as part of an effort to promote Tartan Day.

Kilts are often made from Family/Clan Tartans, though not exclusively - there are many designs that have no particular family affiliation (such as Regimental designs) - Kilts are aso worn with somewhat plainer designs as well, and have even been made from leather..
I think the map is more appropriate than the pic of Jack McConnell - he is an elected representative, and does not necessarily epitomise Scottishness (indeed - pending the outcome of the general election on Thursday 03-May-2007, he may or may not continue as First Minister.) --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 17:45, 01 May 2007 (BST)

I've replaced the picture with one more <s>dull</s> appropriate.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 08:49, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== homosexuality and the kilt - the link ==
[[Image:JackMcConnell.png|right|thumb|A scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)([http://photos3.flickr.com/3348884_7b5cbe90be.jpg])]]'
em there is none - and I suggest any americans who visit scotland don't make suggest that linkage to members of, for example, her Maj's 51 (Scottish) Brigade. A frank and full exchange of viewpoints might then occur! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 15:05, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

:This being Conservapedia, surely one would expect the description of Scotland by the leading [[conservative]] [[Christian]] [[Pat Robertson]], to be included in the article. He described Scotland as a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''"<ref>http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/02/scotland.robertson/</ref>. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 05:57, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::Not in the lead. And not [[out of context]]. Also, a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid [[kilt]] makes more of a statement about [[homosexuality]], [[gender identity disorder]] or [[cross-dressing]] than it does about Scotland. Try to keep your mind on the purpose of this project. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:33, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::What? since when is a skirt and a kilt the same thing? Ed, you're way in the wrong on this one. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 08:42, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Ed, you are wrong - check out this website to see how the kilt is evolving - traditional kilts are only part of it [http://www.21stcenturykilts.com/home.htm].

::::Wrong about what? Please restate the assertion you think I have made. (The fashion photo you showed me of contemporary young people doesn't tell me what you mean.) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: You asserted that "a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid kilt makes more of a statement about homosexuality, gender identity disorder or cross-dressing than it does about Scotland." Whereas the link I provided shows that all kinds of non-traditional materials (denim, leather, camouflage patterns, tweed, pinstripe suit cloth, etc.) are being used to make kilts. The photo is of a man in a modern kilt. You assert that it is a skirt. Homosexuality and transvestisism are in no way associated with modern kilts. You assert that they are. To Scots, such words are particularly offensive.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 09:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::[[User:Ed Poor|Ed]], even if the quote was [[out of context]] what is wrong with showing the conservative view of Scotland? Pro-Gaiety and homosexualism is rife in Scotland:
::*The repeal of laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in schools <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/800673.stm</ref>
::*The legalisation of so called gay marriage <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4494882.stm </ref>
::*Allowing homosexuals to adopt children <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1356432006 </ref>
::*Allowing homosexual teachers to teach homosexual sex to children <ref>http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=754672006</ref>
::*Open encouragement of homosexual soldiers and policemen <ref>http://www.gpascotland.com/050827.htm</ref>
::*The banning of pro-Christian opinions at sports events <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=387732007</ref>
::Those are just a few from the multitude of examples of how the [[homosexual agenda]] is permeating Scotland. Surely Scotland is a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''" and this should be reflected here?
::[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 09:07, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Kilts are *not* skirts - the difference isn't subtle... it's interesting the connection some draw between 'cross-dressing' and kilt wearing; whenever I wear my kilt (especially in England and elsewhere) it usually attracts lots of attention from women...
'a dark country full of homosexuals' - I'm not even going to be drawn on that one, but featuring it prominently hardly does anything for the credibility of the article as a whole. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:03, 02 May 2007 (BST)

:Spin, your statement that a [[kilt]] is not a skirt disagrees with the caption Nick put on the image to our upper right. The words ''Scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)'' imply (1) that the man was wearing a skirt and (2) that a skirt is known as a kilt in Scotland.

:Would the two of you please sort this out. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 10:09, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I see your point. The article that Jack McConnell is wearing is a kilt. Skirts are not known as kilts - the two words are not synonymous. Although kilts are mostly associated with male attire, this isn't universally true by any means. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:21, 02 May 2007 (BST)

Might be worth clarifying the whole kilt issue, either by adding to this article (Traditional Attire section?) or by creating a separate linked page for the kilt. Perhaps one of our resident Scots would be able to? --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I'd be happy that the image be replaced with a piper but I'm having difficulty finding a fair use one. Probably worth noting that most images of pipers will be in full ceremonial garb (kilt, sporran, etc). Perhaps someone will have more luck than I finding a suitable image. --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:24, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

At the risk of going round in circles, again the Pat Robertson comment - with respect, who is this guy? (I don't mean literally - I know who he is) There is no indication of how his opinion is relevant - whether or not you consider it to be true, it just sounds like abuse, which just undermines the credibility of (at least) the whole article. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:04, 04 May 2007 (BST)

:Mr. Robertson's opinion is important as an example of Conservative thinking. Here at Conservapedia [[homosexuality]] is taken very seriously as can be seen at that article and others such as [[homosexual agenda]], [[gay rights]], [[homophobia]] and their accompanying talk pages. It is important that such matters are given a prominent position in Conservapedia, for example the [[Main Page]] news items such as [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=139637 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=131062 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=130326 this] and [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=85632 this]. Such conservative facts ([[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|Differences with Wikipedia No. 9]]) are always displayed prominently and not censored like at the [[Liberal bias|liberally biased]] [[Examples of Bias in Wikipedia|Wikipedia]]. In fact I think the information in question should appear right at the top of the article.
:[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 15:12, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::Ok. Pat Robertson's opinions are clearly in line with many(most? ..I don't know) conservative thinkers, at least in the US. ('Conservative' has a related but slightly different meaning in the UK)

::(from [[Racism]]) 'Racism is making broad generalizations about a group of people based on percieved notions' - articles in the press are designed to be provocative and inflammatory - that doesn't necessarily cast doubt on the truth of the information they refer to, but they are far from a foolproof source, not very indicative of the nature of a culture.
::I'm not accusing Pat Robertson of racism, but he's a bit close to the wire. (I suspect he would argue about 'perceived notions' - and whether he was making a 'broad generalisation')

::I'm not sure what you mean by 'Conservative Facts' - it's definitely a fact that Pat Robertson said that, but the truth of it is a different thing altogether..

::I understand that it is important that the guiding principles of Conservapedia are enforced, but the article seems to have more to say about the authors' abhorrence of homosexuality than it does about it's subject matter - irrespective of your views, that doesn't do any good at all. [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:03, 07 May 2007 (BST)

:::[[Liberal]]ism seems to have won the day and the truth about the pernicious [[homosexual agenda]] has been ''hidden away'' in the article [[Church of Scotland]] where I assume the hope is that no one will find it.
:::People looking for information about Scotland are being denied some very important [[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|conservative facts]]. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 12:05, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: "the truth about the pernicious [[homosexual agenda]]" Ah yes. That old chestnut. Far an taine ‘n abhainn, ‘s ann as mò a fuaim. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:49, 14 May 2007 (BST)

:::Dèan magadh air na-h pàrras amadain an seo. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 10:58, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: ok.. pretty sure that wasn't what I was doing. Anyway - this isn't especially productive. People reading the article will doubtless make up their own minds as to the credibility of the information therein, and the peculiar list of references. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 18:03, 15 May 2007 (BST)

:: Ok, I AM Scottish, and a kilt is NOT A SKIRT! IT IS ALSO NOT WHAT A SKIRT IS CALLED IN SCOTLAND! WE CALL THEM SKIRTS! YES WE ACTUALLY DO SPEAK ENGLISH! SOME OF US ARE IN FACT QUITE LITERATE! I WOULD THANK YOU KINDLY TO TAKE THAT GARBAGE OFF OF THIS PAGE! --[[User:Daerean|Daerean]] 14:59, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

:::What is [http://scotweb-objects.com/images/items/thumbs/283x/Q90_sr_swhdr_girlskilt_w.jpg this] then? Looks like a skirt to me, even if it is caled a ''kilt.'' Most dictionaries would agree that a skirt is 
# The part of a garment, such as a dress or coat, that '''hangs freely from the waist down.'''
# A garment hanging from the waist and '''worn by women and girls.'''
# A part or attachment resembling the skirt of a garment, especially:
# One of the leather flaps hanging from the side of a saddle.
# The lower outer section of a rocket vehicle.
# A flexible strip hanging from the base of an air-cushion vehicle.
# A piece of fabric that extends over or beyond something to afford protection. 
The transvestite - or otherwise - habits of Scotsmen aside, a "kilt" is most definitely a "skirt" by definition. And finally, why do kilt wearers not simply wear the masculine version of the tartan garment, the "trews"? [[User:Fox|Fox]] 15:20, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

Trews are not a 'masculine version of the tartan garment'. I think the members of the Royal Regiment of Scotland who wear kilts and sporrans as part of their dress uniforms might take exception to the above.. indeed, Scottish troops wore kilts in combat as late as 1940. (not so much by the second world war, but compared to the uniforms worn by other British troops in (for example) the Napoleonic Wars, the kilt was a remarkably practical garment) See also [http://www.cabarfeidh.com/kilts_in_the_past.htm www.cabarfeidh.com/kilts_in_the_past.htm] [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:38, 29 May 2007 (BST)

==References==
<references/>

== Cities ==

Six? [[Inverness]] is very small for a city. Inhabitants of [[Perth]] (which is much larger) and elsewhere will be annoyed by not being mentioned.

You might usefully put a link somewhere here to [[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 13:36, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

:That's partly why I added in the word "major" to the section. That way other cities wouldn't feel as slighted since it'd be near impossible to add every single one to the list. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 13:46, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

::I meant to say, ''You might usefully put a link somewhere here to'' <nowiki>[[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]</nowiki>. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 14:55, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Gotcha ... unfortunately you'll have to go to a sysop now as the article is re-locked. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 16:22, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Blocking has the unfortunate consequence of perpetrating historical inaccuracy. Example: The Union of England Scotland and Ireland came about in 1801, not 1707. Can someone "break in" and change that please.[[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 20:12, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-29T14:39:28Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* homosexuality and the kilt - the link */

{{Protected|TK}}

in scottland, the kilt(that spelled right?) isnt that like your family's colors? --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 11:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes Will N, the kilt is a tradtional dress still worn at weddings and social functions that is made in the clan (think family) tartan. Each tartan is comprised of colours specific to that family.

And Ed Poor, please can you stop removing the kilt picture. It is incredibly disrespectful to the Scots to remove not only a picture depicting their National dress but also their First Minister. The kilt has nothing to do with homosexuality, which frankly, is a topic that is discussed far too often on this site. [[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 12:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

== Kilts ==

Kilts are an item of dress, it is the tartan that has an association with families, or more accurately, Clan. In addition many public bodies have their own particular tartan. In the picture, Jack McConnell is seen wearing a pin-stripe kilt as part of an effort to promote Tartan Day.

Kilts are often made from Family/Clan Tartans, though not exclusively - there are many designs that have no particular family affiliation (such as Regimental designs) - Kilts are aso worn with somewhat plainer designs as well, and have even been made from leather..
I think the map is more appropriate than the pic of Jack McConnell - he is an elected representative, and does not necessarily epitomise Scottishness (indeed - pending the outcome of the general election on Thursday 03-May-2007, he may or may not continue as First Minister.) --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 17:45, 01 May 2007 (BST)

I've replaced the picture with one more <s>dull</s> appropriate.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 08:49, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== homosexuality and the kilt - the link ==
[[Image:JackMcConnell.png|right|thumb|A scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)([http://photos3.flickr.com/3348884_7b5cbe90be.jpg])]]'
em there is none - and I suggest any americans who visit scotland don't make suggest that linkage to members of, for example, her Maj's 51 (Scottish) Brigade. A frank and full exchange of viewpoints might then occur! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 15:05, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

:This being Conservapedia, surely one would expect the description of Scotland by the leading [[conservative]] [[Christian]] [[Pat Robertson]], to be included in the article. He described Scotland as a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''"<ref>http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/02/scotland.robertson/</ref>. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 05:57, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::Not in the lead. And not [[out of context]]. Also, a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid [[kilt]] makes more of a statement about [[homosexuality]], [[gender identity disorder]] or [[cross-dressing]] than it does about Scotland. Try to keep your mind on the purpose of this project. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:33, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::What? since when is a skirt and a kilt the same thing? Ed, you're way in the wrong on this one. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 08:42, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Ed, you are wrong - check out this website to see how the kilt is evolving - traditional kilts are only part of it [http://www.21stcenturykilts.com/home.htm].

::::Wrong about what? Please restate the assertion you think I have made. (The fashion photo you showed me of contemporary young people doesn't tell me what you mean.) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: You asserted that "a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid kilt makes more of a statement about homosexuality, gender identity disorder or cross-dressing than it does about Scotland." Whereas the link I provided shows that all kinds of non-traditional materials (denim, leather, camouflage patterns, tweed, pinstripe suit cloth, etc.) are being used to make kilts. The photo is of a man in a modern kilt. You assert that it is a skirt. Homosexuality and transvestisism are in no way associated with modern kilts. You assert that they are. To Scots, such words are particularly offensive.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 09:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::[[User:Ed Poor|Ed]], even if the quote was [[out of context]] what is wrong with showing the conservative view of Scotland? Pro-Gaiety and homosexualism is rife in Scotland:
::*The repeal of laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in schools <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/800673.stm</ref>
::*The legalisation of so called gay marriage <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4494882.stm </ref>
::*Allowing homosexuals to adopt children <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1356432006 </ref>
::*Allowing homosexual teachers to teach homosexual sex to children <ref>http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=754672006</ref>
::*Open encouragement of homosexual soldiers and policemen <ref>http://www.gpascotland.com/050827.htm</ref>
::*The banning of pro-Christian opinions at sports events <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=387732007</ref>
::Those are just a few from the multitude of examples of how the [[homosexual agenda]] is permeating Scotland. Surely Scotland is a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''" and this should be reflected here?
::[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 09:07, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Kilts are *not* skirts - the difference isn't subtle... it's interesting the connection some draw between 'cross-dressing' and kilt wearing; whenever I wear my kilt (especially in England and elsewhere) it usually attracts lots of attention from women...
'a dark country full of homosexuals' - I'm not even going to be drawn on that one, but featuring it prominently hardly does anything for the credibility of the article as a whole. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:03, 02 May 2007 (BST)

:Spin, your statement that a [[kilt]] is not a skirt disagrees with the caption Nick put on the image to our upper right. The words ''Scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)'' imply (1) that the man was wearing a skirt and (2) that a skirt is known as a kilt in Scotland.

:Would the two of you please sort this out. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 10:09, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I see your point. The article that Jack McConnell is wearing is a kilt. Skirts are not known as kilts - the two words are not synonymous. Although kilts are mostly associated with male attire, this isn't universally true by any means. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:21, 02 May 2007 (BST)

Might be worth clarifying the whole kilt issue, either by adding to this article (Traditional Attire section?) or by creating a separate linked page for the kilt. Perhaps one of our resident Scots would be able to? --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I'd be happy that the image be replaced with a piper but I'm having difficulty finding a fair use one. Probably worth noting that most images of pipers will be in full ceremonial garb (kilt, sporran, etc). Perhaps someone will have more luck than I finding a suitable image. --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:24, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

At the risk of going round in circles, again the Pat Robertson comment - with respect, who is this guy? (I don't mean literally - I know who he is) There is no indication of how his opinion is relevant - whether or not you consider it to be true, it just sounds like abuse, which just undermines the credibility of (at least) the whole article. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:04, 04 May 2007 (BST)

:Mr. Robertson's opinion is important as an example of Conservative thinking. Here at Conservapedia [[homosexuality]] is taken very seriously as can be seen at that article and others such as [[homosexual agenda]], [[gay rights]], [[homophobia]] and their accompanying talk pages. It is important that such matters are given a prominent position in Conservapedia, for example the [[Main Page]] news items such as [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=139637 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=131062 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=130326 this] and [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=85632 this]. Such conservative facts ([[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|Differences with Wikipedia No. 9]]) are always displayed prominently and not censored like at the [[Liberal bias|liberally biased]] [[Examples of Bias in Wikipedia|Wikipedia]]. In fact I think the information in question should appear right at the top of the article.
:[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 15:12, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::Ok. Pat Robertson's opinions are clearly in line with many(most? ..I don't know) conservative thinkers, at least in the US. ('Conservative' has a related but slightly different meaning in the UK)

::(from [[Racism]]) 'Racism is making broad generalizations about a group of people based on percieved notions' - articles in the press are designed to be provocative and inflammatory - that doesn't necessarily cast doubt on the truth of the information they refer to, but they are far from a foolproof source, not very indicative of the nature of a culture.
::I'm not accusing Pat Robertson of racism, but he's a bit close to the wire. (I suspect he would argue about 'perceived notions' - and whether he was making a 'broad generalisation')

::I'm not sure what you mean by 'Conservative Facts' - it's definitely a fact that Pat Robertson said that, but the truth of it is a different thing altogether..

::I understand that it is important that the guiding principles of Conservapedia are enforced, but the article seems to have more to say about the authors' abhorrence of homosexuality than it does about it's subject matter - irrespective of your views, that doesn't do any good at all. [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:03, 07 May 2007 (BST)

:::[[Liberal]]ism seems to have won the day and the truth about the pernicious [[homosexual agenda]] has been ''hidden away'' in the article [[Church of Scotland]] where I assume the hope is that no one will find it.
:::People looking for information about Scotland are being denied some very important [[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|conservative facts]]. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 12:05, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: "the truth about the pernicious [[homosexual agenda]]" Ah yes. That old chestnut. Far an taine ‘n abhainn, ‘s ann as mò a fuaim. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:49, 14 May 2007 (BST)

:::Dèan magadh air na-h pàrras amadain an seo. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 10:58, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: ok.. pretty sure that wasn't what I was doing. Anyway - this isn't especially productive. People reading the article will doubtless make up their own minds as to the credibility of the information therein, and the peculiar list of references. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 18:03, 15 May 2007 (BST)

:: Ok, I AM Scottish, and a kilt is NOT A SKIRT! IT IS ALSO NOT WHAT A SKIRT IS CALLED IN SCOTLAND! WE CALL THEM SKIRTS! YES WE ACTUALLY DO SPEAK ENGLISH! SOME OF US ARE IN FACT QUITE LITERATE! I WOULD THANK YOU KINDLY TO TAKE THAT GARBAGE OFF OF THIS PAGE! --[[User:Daerean|Daerean]] 14:59, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

:::What is [http://scotweb-objects.com/images/items/thumbs/283x/Q90_sr_swhdr_girlskilt_w.jpg this] then? Looks like a skirt to me, even if it is caled a ''kilt.'' Most dictionaries would agree that a skirt is 
# The part of a garment, such as a dress or coat, that '''hangs freely from the waist down.'''
# A garment hanging from the waist and '''worn by women and girls.'''
# A part or attachment resembling the skirt of a garment, especially:
# One of the leather flaps hanging from the side of a saddle.
# The lower outer section of a rocket vehicle.
# A flexible strip hanging from the base of an air-cushion vehicle.
# A piece of fabric that extends over or beyond something to afford protection. 
The transvestite - or otherwise - habits of Scotsmen aside, a "kilt" is most definitely a "skirt" by definition. And finally, why do kilt wearers not simply wear the masculine version of the tartan garment, the "trews"? [[User:Fox|Fox]] 15:20, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

Trews are not a 'masculine version of the tartan garment'. I think the members of the Royal Regiment of Scotland who wear kilts and sporrans as part of their dress uniforms might take exception to the above.. indeed, Scottish troops wore kilts in combat as late as 1940. (not so much by the second world war, but compared to the uniforms worn by other British troops in (for example) the Napoleonic Wars, the kilt was a remarkably practical garment) See also www.cabarfeidh.com/kilts_in_the_past.htm [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:38, 29 May 2007 (BST)

==References==
<references/>

== Cities ==

Six? [[Inverness]] is very small for a city. Inhabitants of [[Perth]] (which is much larger) and elsewhere will be annoyed by not being mentioned.

You might usefully put a link somewhere here to [[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 13:36, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

:That's partly why I added in the word "major" to the section. That way other cities wouldn't feel as slighted since it'd be near impossible to add every single one to the list. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 13:46, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

::I meant to say, ''You might usefully put a link somewhere here to'' <nowiki>[[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]</nowiki>. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 14:55, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Gotcha ... unfortunately you'll have to go to a sysop now as the article is re-locked. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 16:22, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Blocking has the unfortunate consequence of perpetrating historical inaccuracy. Example: The Union of England Scotland and Ireland came about in 1801, not 1707. Can someone "break in" and change that please.[[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 20:12, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

James Callaghan

2007-05-16T15:47:15Z

SpinnakerMagic: Great Offices of State rather than 'most important cabinet jobs'

'''James Callaghan''' was a [[Labour party|Labour]] Prime Minister of the [[United Kingdom]] from 1976-1979.

The only Prime Minister of the 20th century to have previously held all three of the other Great Offices of State (Foreign Secretary, Home Secretary and [[Chancellor of the Exchequer]]), he became Labour party leader and PM following [[Harold Wilson]]'s unexpected resignation.

His tenure was notable for widespread industrial unrest, culminating in the [[Winter of Discontent]] of late 1978, a nationwide [[General Strike]] whose images of uncollected rubbish and unburied dead did much to keep Labour out of power for the next eighteen years.

[[Category:UK Prime Ministers|Callaghan, James]]

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-15T17:04:45Z

SpinnakerMagic: Replacing page with 'Enough.'

Enough.

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-15T17:03:59Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* homosexuality and the kilt - the link */

{{Protected|TK}}

One thing; it's slightly disputed that Golf is a Scottish invention, just wondered if it should be in there... btw no offence to Scots genuine concern --[[User:Daerean|Daerean]] 15:03, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

in scottland, the kilt(that spelled right?) isnt that like your family's colors? --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 11:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes Will N, the kilt is a tradtional dress still worn at weddings and social functions that is made in the clan (think family) tartan. Each tartan is comprised of colours specific to that family.

And Ed Poor, please can you stop removing the kilt picture. It is incredibly disrespectful to the Scots to remove not only a picture depicting their National dress but also their First Minister. The kilt has nothing to do with homosexuality, which frankly, is a topic that is discussed far too often on this site. [[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 12:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

== Kilts ==

Kilts are an item of dress, it is the tartan that has an association with families, or more accurately, Clan. In addition many public bodies have their own particular tartan. In the picture, Jack McConnell is seen wearing a pin-stripe kilt as part of an effort to promote Tartan Day.

Kilts are often made from Family/Clan Tartans, though not exclusively - there are many designs that have no particular family affiliation (such as Regimental designs) - Kilts are aso worn with somewhat plainer designs as well, and have even been made from leather..
I think the map is more appropriate than the pic of Jack McConnell - he is an elected representative, and does not necessarily epitomise Scottishness (indeed - pending the outcome of the general election on Thursday 03-May-2007, he may or may not continue as First Minister.) --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 17:45, 01 May 2007 (BST)

I've replaced the picture with one more <s>dull</s> appropriate.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 08:49, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== homosexuality and the kilt - the link ==
[[Image:JackMcConnell.png|right|thumb|A scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)([http://photos3.flickr.com/3348884_7b5cbe90be.jpg])]]'
em there is none - and I suggest any americans who visit scotland don't make suggest that linkage to members of, for example, her Maj's 51 (Scottish) Brigade. A frank and full exchange of viewpoints might then occur! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 15:05, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

:This being Conservapedia, surely one would expect the description of Scotland by the leading [[conservative]] [[Christian]] [[Pat Robertson]], to be included in the article. He described Scotland as a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''"<ref>http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/02/scotland.robertson/</ref>. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 05:57, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::Not in the lead. And not [[out of context]]. Also, a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid [[kilt]] makes more of a statement about [[homosexuality]], [[gender identity disorder]] or [[cross-dressing]] than it does about Scotland. Try to keep your mind on the purpose of this project. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:33, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::What? since when is a skirt and a kilt the same thing? Ed, you're way in the wrong on this one. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 08:42, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Ed, you are wrong - check out this website to see how the kilt is evolving - traditional kilts are only part of it [http://www.21stcenturykilts.com/home.htm].

::::Wrong about what? Please restate the assertion you think I have made. (The fashion photo you showed me of contemporary young people doesn't tell me what you mean.) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: You asserted that "a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid kilt makes more of a statement about homosexuality, gender identity disorder or cross-dressing than it does about Scotland." Whereas the link I provided shows that all kinds of non-traditional materials (denim, leather, camouflage patterns, tweed, pinstripe suit cloth, etc.) are being used to make kilts. The photo is of a man in a modern kilt. You assert that it is a skirt. Homosexuality and transvestisism are in no way associated with modern kilts. You assert that they are. To Scots, such words are particularly offensive.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 09:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::[[User:Ed Poor|Ed]], even if the quote was [[out of context]] what is wrong with showing the conservative view of Scotland? Pro-Gaiety and homosexualism is rife in Scotland:
::*The repeal of laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in schools <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/800673.stm</ref>
::*The legalisation of so called gay marriage <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4494882.stm </ref>
::*Allowing homosexuals to adopt children <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1356432006 </ref>
::*Allowing homosexual teachers to teach homosexual sex to children <ref>http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=754672006</ref>
::*Open encouragement of homosexual soldiers and policemen <ref>http://www.gpascotland.com/050827.htm</ref>
::*The banning of pro-Christian opinions at sports events <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=387732007</ref>
::Those are just a few from the multitude of examples of how the [[homosexual agenda]] is permeating Scotland. Surely Scotland is a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''" and this should be reflected here?
::[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 09:07, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Kilts are *not* skirts - the difference isn't subtle... it's interesting the connection some draw between 'cross-dressing' and kilt wearing; whenever I wear my kilt (especially in England and elsewhere) it usually attracts lots of attention from women...
'a dark country full of homosexuals' - I'm not even going to be drawn on that one, but featuring it prominently hardly does anything for the credibility of the article as a whole. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:03, 02 May 2007 (BST)

:Spin, your statement that a [[kilt]] is not a skirt disagrees with the caption Nick put on the image to our upper right. The words ''Scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)'' imply (1) that the man was wearing a skirt and (2) that a skirt is known as a kilt in Scotland.

:Would the two of you please sort this out. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 10:09, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I see your point. The article that Jack McConnell is wearing is a kilt. Skirts are not known as kilts - the two words are not synonymous. Although kilts are mostly associated with male attire, this isn't universally true by any means. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:21, 02 May 2007 (BST)

Might be worth clarifying the whole kilt issue, either by adding to this article (Traditional Attire section?) or by creating a separate linked page for the kilt. Perhaps one of our resident Scots would be able to? --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I'd be happy that the image be replaced with a piper but I'm having difficulty finding a fair use one. Probably worth noting that most images of pipers will be in full ceremonial garb (kilt, sporran, etc). Perhaps someone will have more luck than I finding a suitable image. --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:24, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

At the risk of going round in circles, again the Pat Robertson comment - with respect, who is this guy? (I don't mean literally - I know who he is) There is no indication of how his opinion is relevant - whether or not you consider it to be true, it just sounds like abuse, which just undermines the credibility of (at least) the whole article. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:04, 04 May 2007 (BST)

:Mr. Robertson's opinion is important as an example of Conservative thinking. Here at Conservapedia [[homosexuality]] is taken very seriously as can be seen at that article and others such as [[homosexual agenda]], [[gay rights]], [[homophobia]] and their accompanying talk pages. It is important that such matters are given a prominent position in Conservapedia, for example the [[Main Page]] news items such as [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=139637 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=131062 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=130326 this] and [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=85632 this]. Such conservative facts ([[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|Differences with Wikipedia No. 9]]) are always displayed prominently and not censored like at the [[Liberal bias|liberally biased]] [[Examples of Bias in Wikipedia|Wikipedia]]. In fact I think the information in question should appear right at the top of the article.
:[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 15:12, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::Ok. Pat Robertson's opinions are clearly in line with many(most? ..I don't know) conservative thinkers, at least in the US. ('Conservative' has a related but slightly different meaning in the UK)

::(from [[Racism]]) 'Racism is making broad generalizations about a group of people based on percieved notions' - articles in the press are designed to be provocative and inflammatory - that doesn't necessarily cast doubt on the truth of the information they refer to, but they are far from a foolproof source, not very indicative of the nature of a culture.
::I'm not accusing Pat Robertson of racism, but he's a bit close to the wire. (I suspect he would argue about 'perceived notions' - and whether he was making a 'broad generalisation')

::I'm not sure what you mean by 'Conservative Facts' - it's definitely a fact that Pat Robertson said that, but the truth of it is a different thing altogether..

::I understand that it is important that the guiding principles of Conservapedia are enforced, but the article seems to have more to say about the authors' abhorrence of homosexuality than it does about it's subject matter - irrespective of your views, that doesn't do any good at all. [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:03, 07 May 2007 (BST)

:::[[Liberal]]ism seems to have won the day and the truth about the pernicious [[homosexual agenda]] has been ''hidden away'' in the article [[Church of Scotland]] where I assume the hope is that no one will find it.
:::People looking for information about Scotland are being denied some very important [[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|conservative facts]]. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 12:05, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: "the truth about the pernicious [[homosexual agenda]]" Ah yes. That old chestnut. Far an taine ‘n abhainn, ‘s ann as mò a fuaim. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:49, 14 May 2007 (BST)

:::Dèan magadh air na-h pàrras amadain an seo. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 10:58, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: ok.. pretty sure that wasn't what I was doing. Anyway - this isn't especially productive. People reading the article will doubtless make up their own minds as to the credibility of the information therein, and the peculiar list of references. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 18:03, 15 May 2007 (BST)

==References==
<references/>

== Cities ==

Six? [[Inverness]] is very small for a city. Inhabitants of [[Perth]] (which is much larger) and elsewhere will be annoyed by not being mentioned.

You might usefully put a link somewhere here to [[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 13:36, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

:That's partly why I added in the word "major" to the section. That way other cities wouldn't feel as slighted since it'd be near impossible to add every single one to the list. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 13:46, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

::I meant to say, ''You might usefully put a link somewhere here to'' <nowiki>[[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]</nowiki>. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 14:55, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Gotcha ... unfortunately you'll have to go to a sysop now as the article is re-locked. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 16:22, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Debate:Is waterboarding torture?

2007-05-15T15:02:34Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* Yes */

{{debate}}

==Yes==
Yes, we need to torture muslims if they bomb us. I support it.
:Hmm. That makes perfect sense. With that logic, let's torture all of the guys in the USAF because they bomb innocent civilians. Does that make sense? And you just stereotyped 1.6 billion people. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 15:59, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

==No==

:Wait a minute - 'we need to torture muslims if they bomb us' - you mean you wouldn't torture others who bomb you? Are you suggesting that Followers of Islam are in some way more deserving of torture? Other than that, if you advocate the torture of prisoners (be they Prisoners of War in the technical sense or not) then surely you abandon any right to be appalled if other nations/organisations adopt the same tactics with captured Americans..? [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:34, 14 May 2007 (BST)

Debate:Is waterboarding torture?

2007-05-15T15:02:19Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* No */

{{debate}}

==Yes==
Yes, we need to torture muslims if they bomb us. I support it.
:Hmm. That makes perfect sense. With that logic, let's torture all of the guys in the USAF because they bomb innocent civilians. Does that make sense? And you just stereotyped 1.6 billion people. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 15:59, 21

==No==

:Wait a minute - 'we need to torture muslims if they bomb us' - you mean you wouldn't torture others who bomb you? Are you suggesting that Followers of Islam are in some way more deserving of torture? Other than that, if you advocate the torture of prisoners (be they Prisoners of War in the technical sense or not) then surely you abandon any right to be appalled if other nations/organisations adopt the same tactics with captured Americans..? [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:34, 14 May 2007 (BST)

Debate:Is waterboarding torture?

2007-05-15T15:01:58Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* No */

{{debate}}

==Yes==
Yes, we need to torture muslims if they bomb us. I support it.
:Hmm. That makes perfect sense. With that logic, let's torture all of the guys in the USAF because they bomb innocent civilians. Does that make sense? And you just stereotyped 1.6 billion people. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 15:59, 21

==No==
April 2007 (EDT)
:Wait a minute - 'we need to torture muslims if they bomb us' - you mean you wouldn't torture others who bomb you? Are you suggesting that Followers of Islam are in some way more deserving of torture? Other than that, if you advocate the torture of prisoners (be they Prisoners of War in the technical sense or not) then surely you abandon any right to be appalled if other nations/organisations adopt the same tactics with captured Americans..? [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:34, 14 May 2007 (BST)

Debate:Is waterboarding torture?

2007-05-15T15:01:47Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* Yes */

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-14T14:49:14Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* homosexuality and the kilt - the link */

{{Protected|TK}}

One thing; it's slightly disputed that Golf is a Scottish invention, just wondered if it should be in there... btw no offence to Scots genuine concern --[[User:Daerean|Daerean]] 15:03, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

in scottland, the kilt(that spelled right?) isnt that like your family's colors? --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 11:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes Will N, the kilt is a tradtional dress still worn at weddings and social functions that is made in the clan (think family) tartan. Each tartan is comprised of colours specific to that family.

And Ed Poor, please can you stop removing the kilt picture. It is incredibly disrespectful to the Scots to remove not only a picture depicting their National dress but also their First Minister. The kilt has nothing to do with homosexuality, which frankly, is a topic that is discussed far too often on this site. [[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 12:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

== Kilts ==

Kilts are an item of dress, it is the tartan that has an association with families, or more accurately, Clan. In addition many public bodies have their own particular tartan. In the picture, Jack McConnell is seen wearing a pin-stripe kilt as part of an effort to promote Tartan Day.

Kilts are often made from Family/Clan Tartans, though not exclusively - there are many designs that have no particular family affiliation (such as Regimental designs) - Kilts are aso worn with somewhat plainer designs as well, and have even been made from leather..
I think the map is more appropriate than the pic of Jack McConnell - he is an elected representative, and does not necessarily epitomise Scottishness (indeed - pending the outcome of the general election on Thursday 03-May-2007, he may or may not continue as First Minister.) --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 17:45, 01 May 2007 (BST)

I've replaced the picture with one more <s>dull</s> appropriate.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 08:49, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== homosexuality and the kilt - the link ==
[[Image:JackMcConnell.png|right|thumb|A scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)([http://photos3.flickr.com/3348884_7b5cbe90be.jpg])]]'
em there is none - and I suggest any americans who visit scotland don't make suggest that linkage to members of, for example, her Maj's 51 (Scottish) Brigade. A frank and full exchange of viewpoints might then occur! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 15:05, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

:This being Conservapedia, surely one would expect the description of Scotland by the leading [[conservative]] [[Christian]] [[Pat Robertson]], to be included in the article. He described Scotland as a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''"<ref>http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/02/scotland.robertson/</ref>. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 05:57, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::Not in the lead. And not [[out of context]]. Also, a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid [[kilt]] makes more of a statement about [[homosexuality]], [[gender identity disorder]] or [[cross-dressing]] than it does about Scotland. Try to keep your mind on the purpose of this project. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:33, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::What? since when is a skirt and a kilt the same thing? Ed, you're way in the wrong on this one. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 08:42, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Ed, you are wrong - check out this website to see how the kilt is evolving - traditional kilts are only part of it [http://www.21stcenturykilts.com/home.htm].

::::Wrong about what? Please restate the assertion you think I have made. (The fashion photo you showed me of contemporary young people doesn't tell me what you mean.) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: You asserted that "a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid kilt makes more of a statement about homosexuality, gender identity disorder or cross-dressing than it does about Scotland." Whereas the link I provided shows that all kinds of non-traditional materials (denim, leather, camouflage patterns, tweed, pinstripe suit cloth, etc.) are being used to make kilts. The photo is of a man in a modern kilt. You assert that it is a skirt. Homosexuality and transvestisism are in no way associated with modern kilts. You assert that they are. To Scots, such words are particularly offensive.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 09:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::[[User:Ed Poor|Ed]], even if the quote was [[out of context]] what is wrong with showing the conservative view of Scotland? Pro-Gaiety and homosexualism is rife in Scotland:
::*The repeal of laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in schools <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/800673.stm</ref>
::*The legalisation of so called gay marriage <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4494882.stm </ref>
::*Allowing homosexuals to adopt children <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1356432006 </ref>
::*Allowing homosexual teachers to teach homosexual sex to children <ref>http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=754672006</ref>
::*Open encouragement of homosexual soldiers and policemen <ref>http://www.gpascotland.com/050827.htm</ref>
::*The banning of pro-Christian opinions at sports events <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=387732007</ref>
::Those are just a few from the multitude of examples of how the [[homosexual agenda]] is permeating Scotland. Surely Scotland is a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''" and this should be reflected here?
::[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 09:07, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Kilts are *not* skirts - the difference isn't subtle... it's interesting the connection some draw between 'cross-dressing' and kilt wearing; whenever I wear my kilt (especially in England and elsewhere) it usually attracts lots of attention from women...
'a dark country full of homosexuals' - I'm not even going to be drawn on that one, but featuring it prominently hardly does anything for the credibility of the article as a whole. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:03, 02 May 2007 (BST)

:Spin, your statement that a [[kilt]] is not a skirt disagrees with the caption Nick put on the image to our upper right. The words ''Scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)'' imply (1) that the man was wearing a skirt and (2) that a skirt is known as a kilt in Scotland.

:Would the two of you please sort this out. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 10:09, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I see your point. The article that Jack McConnell is wearing is a kilt. Skirts are not known as kilts - the two words are not synonymous. Although kilts are mostly associated with male attire, this isn't universally true by any means. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:21, 02 May 2007 (BST)

Might be worth clarifying the whole kilt issue, either by adding to this article (Traditional Attire section?) or by creating a separate linked page for the kilt. Perhaps one of our resident Scots would be able to? --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I'd be happy that the image be replaced with a piper but I'm having difficulty finding a fair use one. Probably worth noting that most images of pipers will be in full ceremonial garb (kilt, sporran, etc). Perhaps someone will have more luck than I finding a suitable image. --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:24, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

At the risk of going round in circles, again the Pat Robertson comment - with respect, who is this guy? (I don't mean literally - I know who he is) There is no indication of how his opinion is relevant - whether or not you consider it to be true, it just sounds like abuse, which just undermines the credibility of (at least) the whole article. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:04, 04 May 2007 (BST)

:Mr. Robertson's opinion is important as an example of Conservative thinking. Here at Conservapedia [[homosexuality]] is taken very seriously as can be seen at that article and others such as [[homosexual agenda]], [[gay rights]], [[homophobia]] and their accompanying talk pages. It is important that such matters are given a prominent position in Conservapedia, for example the [[Main Page]] news items such as [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=139637 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=131062 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=130326 this] and [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=85632 this]. Such conservative facts ([[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|Differences with Wikipedia No. 9]]) are always displayed prominently and not censored like at the [[Liberal bias|liberally biased]] [[Examples of Bias in Wikipedia|Wikipedia]]. In fact I think the information in question should appear right at the top of the article.
:[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 15:12, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::Ok. Pat Robertson's opinions are clearly in line with many(most? ..I don't know) conservative thinkers, at least in the US. ('Conservative' has a related but slightly different meaning in the UK)

::(from [[Racism]]) 'Racism is making broad generalizations about a group of people based on percieved notions' - articles in the press are designed to be provocative and inflammatory - that doesn't necessarily cast doubt on the truth of the information they refer to, but they are far from a foolproof source, not very indicative of the nature of a culture.
::I'm not accusing Pat Robertson of racism, but he's a bit close to the wire. (I suspect he would argue about 'perceived notions' - and whether he was making a 'broad generalisation')

::I'm not sure what you mean by 'Conservative Facts' - it's definitely a fact that Pat Robertson said that, but the truth of it is a different thing altogether..

::I understand that it is important that the guiding principles of Conservapedia are enforced, but the article seems to have more to say about the authors' abhorrence of homosexuality than it does about it's subject matter - irrespective of your views, that doesn't do any good at all. [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:03, 07 May 2007 (BST)

:::[[Liberal]]ism seems to have won the day and the truth about the pernicious [[homosexual agenda]] has been ''hidden away'' in the article [[Church of Scotland]] where I assume the hope is that no one will find it.
:::People looking for information about Scotland are being denied some very important [[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|conservative facts]]. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 12:05, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: "the truth about the pernicious [[homosexual agenda]]" Ah yes. That old chestnut. Far an taine ‘n abhainn, ‘s ann as mò a fuaim. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:49, 14 May 2007 (BST)

==References==
<references/>

== Cities ==

Six? [[Inverness]] is very small for a city. Inhabitants of [[Perth]] (which is much larger) and elsewhere will be annoyed by not being mentioned.

You might usefully put a link somewhere here to [[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 13:36, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

:That's partly why I added in the word "major" to the section. That way other cities wouldn't feel as slighted since it'd be near impossible to add every single one to the list. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 13:46, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

::I meant to say, ''You might usefully put a link somewhere here to'' <nowiki>[[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]</nowiki>. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 14:55, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Gotcha ... unfortunately you'll have to go to a sysop now as the article is re-locked. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 16:22, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-14T14:48:36Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* homosexuality and the kilt - the link */

{{Protected|TK}}

One thing; it's slightly disputed that Golf is a Scottish invention, just wondered if it should be in there... btw no offence to Scots genuine concern --[[User:Daerean|Daerean]] 15:03, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

in scottland, the kilt(that spelled right?) isnt that like your family's colors? --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 11:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes Will N, the kilt is a tradtional dress still worn at weddings and social functions that is made in the clan (think family) tartan. Each tartan is comprised of colours specific to that family.

And Ed Poor, please can you stop removing the kilt picture. It is incredibly disrespectful to the Scots to remove not only a picture depicting their National dress but also their First Minister. The kilt has nothing to do with homosexuality, which frankly, is a topic that is discussed far too often on this site. [[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 12:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

== Kilts ==

Kilts are an item of dress, it is the tartan that has an association with families, or more accurately, Clan. In addition many public bodies have their own particular tartan. In the picture, Jack McConnell is seen wearing a pin-stripe kilt as part of an effort to promote Tartan Day.

Kilts are often made from Family/Clan Tartans, though not exclusively - there are many designs that have no particular family affiliation (such as Regimental designs) - Kilts are aso worn with somewhat plainer designs as well, and have even been made from leather..
I think the map is more appropriate than the pic of Jack McConnell - he is an elected representative, and does not necessarily epitomise Scottishness (indeed - pending the outcome of the general election on Thursday 03-May-2007, he may or may not continue as First Minister.) --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 17:45, 01 May 2007 (BST)

I've replaced the picture with one more <s>dull</s> appropriate.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 08:49, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== homosexuality and the kilt - the link ==
[[Image:JackMcConnell.png|right|thumb|A scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)([http://photos3.flickr.com/3348884_7b5cbe90be.jpg])]]'
em there is none - and I suggest any americans who visit scotland don't make suggest that linkage to members of, for example, her Maj's 51 (Scottish) Brigade. A frank and full exchange of viewpoints might then occur! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 15:05, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

:This being Conservapedia, surely one would expect the description of Scotland by the leading [[conservative]] [[Christian]] [[Pat Robertson]], to be included in the article. He described Scotland as a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''"<ref>http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/02/scotland.robertson/</ref>. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 05:57, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::Not in the lead. And not [[out of context]]. Also, a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid [[kilt]] makes more of a statement about [[homosexuality]], [[gender identity disorder]] or [[cross-dressing]] than it does about Scotland. Try to keep your mind on the purpose of this project. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:33, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::What? since when is a skirt and a kilt the same thing? Ed, you're way in the wrong on this one. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 08:42, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Ed, you are wrong - check out this website to see how the kilt is evolving - traditional kilts are only part of it [http://www.21stcenturykilts.com/home.htm].

::::Wrong about what? Please restate the assertion you think I have made. (The fashion photo you showed me of contemporary young people doesn't tell me what you mean.) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: You asserted that "a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid kilt makes more of a statement about homosexuality, gender identity disorder or cross-dressing than it does about Scotland." Whereas the link I provided shows that all kinds of non-traditional materials (denim, leather, camouflage patterns, tweed, pinstripe suit cloth, etc.) are being used to make kilts. The photo is of a man in a modern kilt. You assert that it is a skirt. Homosexuality and transvestisism are in no way associated with modern kilts. You assert that they are. To Scots, such words are particularly offensive.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 09:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::[[User:Ed Poor|Ed]], even if the quote was [[out of context]] what is wrong with showing the conservative view of Scotland? Pro-Gaiety and homosexualism is rife in Scotland:
::*The repeal of laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in schools <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/800673.stm</ref>
::*The legalisation of so called gay marriage <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4494882.stm </ref>
::*Allowing homosexuals to adopt children <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1356432006 </ref>
::*Allowing homosexual teachers to teach homosexual sex to children <ref>http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=754672006</ref>
::*Open encouragement of homosexual soldiers and policemen <ref>http://www.gpascotland.com/050827.htm</ref>
::*The banning of pro-Christian opinions at sports events <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=387732007</ref>
::Those are just a few from the multitude of examples of how the [[homosexual agenda]] is permeating Scotland. Surely Scotland is a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''" and this should be reflected here?
::[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 09:07, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Kilts are *not* skirts - the difference isn't subtle... it's interesting the connection some draw between 'cross-dressing' and kilt wearing; whenever I wear my kilt (especially in England and elsewhere) it usually attracts lots of attention from women...
'a dark country full of homosexuals' - I'm not even going to be drawn on that one, but featuring it prominently hardly does anything for the credibility of the article as a whole. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:03, 02 May 2007 (BST)

:Spin, your statement that a [[kilt]] is not a skirt disagrees with the caption Nick put on the image to our upper right. The words ''Scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)'' imply (1) that the man was wearing a skirt and (2) that a skirt is known as a kilt in Scotland.

:Would the two of you please sort this out. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 10:09, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I see your point. The article that Jack McConnell is wearing is a kilt. Skirts are not known as kilts - the two words are not synonymous. Although kilts are mostly associated with male attire, this isn't universally true by any means. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:21, 02 May 2007 (BST)

Might be worth clarifying the whole kilt issue, either by adding to this article (Traditional Attire section?) or by creating a separate linked page for the kilt. Perhaps one of our resident Scots would be able to? --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I'd be happy that the image be replaced with a piper but I'm having difficulty finding a fair use one. Probably worth noting that most images of pipers will be in full ceremonial garb (kilt, sporran, etc). Perhaps someone will have more luck than I finding a suitable image. --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:24, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

At the risk of going round in circles, again the Pat Robertson comment - with respect, who is this guy? (I don't mean literally - I know who he is) There is no indication of how his opinion is relevant - whether or not you consider it to be true, it just sounds like abuse, which just undermines the credibility of (at least) the whole article. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:04, 04 May 2007 (BST)

:Mr. Robertson's opinion is important as an example of Conservative thinking. Here at Conservapedia [[homosexuality]] is taken very seriously as can be seen at that article and others such as [[homosexual agenda]], [[gay rights]], [[homophobia]] and their accompanying talk pages. It is important that such matters are given a prominent position in Conservapedia, for example the [[Main Page]] news items such as [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=139637 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=131062 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=130326 this] and [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=85632 this]. Such conservative facts ([[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|Differences with Wikipedia No. 9]]) are always displayed prominently and not censored like at the [[Liberal bias|liberally biased]] [[Examples of Bias in Wikipedia|Wikipedia]]. In fact I think the information in question should appear right at the top of the article.
:[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 15:12, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::Ok. Pat Robertson's opinions are clearly in line with many(most? ..I don't know) conservative thinkers, at least in the US. ('Conservative' has a related but slightly different meaning in the UK)

::(from [[Racism]]) 'Racism is making broad generalizations about a group of people based on percieved notions' - articles in the press are designed to be provocative and inflammatory - that doesn't necessarily cast doubt on the truth of the information they refer to, but they are far from a foolproof source, not very indicative of the nature of a culture.
::I'm not accusing Pat Robertson of racism, but he's a bit close to the wire. (I suspect he would argue about 'perceived notions' - and whether he was making a 'broad generalisation')

::I'm not sure what you mean by 'Conservative Facts' - it's definitely a fact that Pat Robertson said that, but the truth of it is a different thing altogether..

::I understand that it is important that the guiding principles of Conservapedia are enforced, but the article seems to have more to say about the authors' abhorrence of homosexuality than it does about it's subject matter - irrespective of your views, that doesn't do any good at all. [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:03, 07 May 2007 (BST)

:::[[Liberal]]ism seems to have won the day and the truth about the pernicious [[homosexual agenda]] has been ''hidden away'' in the article [[Church of Scotland]] where I assume the hope is that no one will find it.
:::People looking for information about Scotland are being denied some very important [[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|conservative facts]]. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 12:05, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

:::: "the truth about the pernicious [[homosexual agenda]]" Ah yes. That old chestnut. Far an taine ‘n abhainn, ‘s ann as mò a fuaim. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:03, 14 May 2007 (BST)

==References==
<references/>

== Cities ==

Six? [[Inverness]] is very small for a city. Inhabitants of [[Perth]] (which is much larger) and elsewhere will be annoyed by not being mentioned.

You might usefully put a link somewhere here to [[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 13:36, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

:That's partly why I added in the word "major" to the section. That way other cities wouldn't feel as slighted since it'd be near impossible to add every single one to the list. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 13:46, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

::I meant to say, ''You might usefully put a link somewhere here to'' <nowiki>[[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]</nowiki>. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 14:55, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Gotcha ... unfortunately you'll have to go to a sysop now as the article is re-locked. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 16:22, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

Debate:Is waterboarding torture?

2007-05-14T14:34:36Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* Yes */

{{debate}}

==Yes==
Yes, we need to torture muslims if they bomb us. I support it.
:Hmm. That makes perfect sense. With that logic, let's torture all of the guys in the USAF because they bomb innocent civilians. Does that make sense? And you just stereotyped 1.6 billion people. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 15:59, 21 April 2007 (EDT)
:Wait a minute - 'we need to torture muslims if they bomb us' - you mean you wouldn't torture others who bomb you? Are you suggesting that Followers of Islam are in some way more deserving of torture? Other than that, if you advocate the torture of prisoners (be they Prisoners of War in the technical sense or not) then surely you abandon any right to be appalled if other nations/organisations adopt the same tactics with captured Americans..? [[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:34, 14 May 2007 (BST)

==No==

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-07T10:40:13Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* homosexuality and the kilt - the link */

One thing; it's slightly disputed that Golf is a Scottish invention, just wondered if it should be in there... btw no offence to Scots genuine concern --[[User:Daerean|Daerean]] 15:03, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

in scottland, the kilt(that spelled right?) isnt that like your family's colors? --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 11:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes Will N, the kilt is a tradtional dress still worn at weddings and social functions that is made in the clan (think family) tartan. Each tartan is comprised of colours specific to that family.

And Ed Poor, please can you stop removing the kilt picture. It is incredibly disrespectful to the Scots to remove not only a picture depicting their National dress but also their First Minister. The kilt has nothing to do with homosexuality, which frankly, is a topic that is discussed far too often on this site. [[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 12:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

== Kilts ==

Kilts are an item of dress, it is the tartan that has an association with families, or more accurately, Clan. In addition many public bodies have their own particular tartan. In the picture, Jack McConnell is seen wearing a pin-stripe kilt as part of an effort to promote Tartan Day.

Kilts are often made from Family/Clan Tartans, though not exclusively - there are many designs that have no particular family affiliation (such as Regimental designs) - Kilts are aso worn with somewhat plainer designs as well, and have even been made from leather..
I think the map is more appropriate than the pic of Jack McConnell - he is an elected representative, and does not necessarily epitomise Scottishness (indeed - pending the outcome of the general election on Thursday 03-May-2007, he may or may not continue as First Minister.) --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 17:45, 01 May 2007 (BST)

I've replaced the picture with one more <s>dull</s> appropriate.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 08:49, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== homosexuality and the kilt - the link ==
[[Image:JackMcConnell.png|right|thumb|A scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)]]'
em there is none - and I suggest any americans who visit scotland don't make suggest that linkage to members of, for example, her Maj's 51 (Scottish) Brigade. A frank and full exchange of viewpoints might then occur! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 15:05, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

:This being Conservapedia, surely one would expect the description of Scotland by the leading [[conservative]] [[Christian]] [[Pat Robertson]], to be included in the article. He described Scotland as a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''"<ref>http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/02/scotland.robertson/</ref>. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 05:57, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::Not in the lead. And not [[out of context]]. Also, a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid [[kilt]] makes more of a statement about [[homosexuality]], [[gender identity disorder]] or [[cross-dressing]] than it does about Scotland. Try to keep your mind on the purpose of this project. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:33, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::What? since when is a skirt and a kilt the same thing? Ed, you're way in the wrong on this one. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 08:42, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Ed, you are wrong - check out this website to see how the kilt is evolving - traditional kilts are only part of it [http://www.21stcenturykilts.com/home.htm].

::::Wrong about what? Please restate the assertion you think I have made. (The fashion photo you showed me of contemporary young people doesn't tell me what you mean.) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: You asserted that "a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid kilt makes more of a statement about homosexuality, gender identity disorder or cross-dressing than it does about Scotland." Whereas the link I provided shows that all kinds of non-traditional materials (denim, leather, camouflage patterns, tweed, pinstripe suit cloth, etc.) are being used to make kilts. The photo is of a man in a modern kilt. You assert that it is a skirt. Homosexuality and transvestisism are in no way associated with modern kilts. You assert that they are. To Scots, such words are particularly offensive.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 09:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::[[User:Ed Poor|Ed]], even if the quote was [[out of context]] what is wrong with showing the conservative view of Scotland? Pro-Gaiety and homosexualism is rife in Scotland:
::*The repeal of laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in schools <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/800673.stm</ref>
::*The legalisation of so called gay marriage <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4494882.stm </ref>
::*Allowing homosexuals to adopt children <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1356432006 </ref>
::*Allowing homosexual teachers to teach homosexual sex to children <ref>http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=754672006</ref>
::*Open encouragement of homosexual soldiers and policemen <ref>http://www.gpascotland.com/050827.htm</ref>
::*The banning of pro-Christian opinions at sports events <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=387732007</ref>
::Those are just a few from the multitude of examples of how the [[homosexual agenda]] is permeating Scotland. Surely Scotland is a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''" and this should be reflected here?
::[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 09:07, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Kilts are *not* skirts - the difference isn't subtle... it's interesting the connection some draw between 'cross-dressing' and kilt wearing; whenever I wear my kilt (especially in England and elsewhere) it usually attracts lots of attention from women...
'a dark country full of homosexuals' - I'm not even going to be drawn on that one, but featuring it prominently hardly does anything for the credibility of the article as a whole. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:03, 02 May 2007 (BST)

:Spin, your statement that a [[kilt]] is not a skirt disagrees with the caption Nick put on the image to our upper right. The words ''Scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)'' imply (1) that the man was wearing a skirt and (2) that a skirt is known as a kilt in Scotland.

:Would the two of you please sort this out. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 10:09, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I see your point. The article that Jack McConnell is wearing is a kilt. Skirts are not known as kilts - the two words are not synonymous. Although kilts are mostly associated with male attire, this isn't universally true by any means. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:21, 02 May 2007 (BST)

Might be worth clarifying the whole kilt issue, either by adding to this article (Traditional Attire section?) or by creating a separate linked page for the kilt. Perhaps one of our resident Scots would be able to? --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I'd be happy that the image be replaced with a piper but I'm having difficulty finding a fair use one. Probably worth noting that most images of pipers will be in full ceremonial garb (kilt, sporran, etc). Perhaps someone will have more luck than I finding a suitable image. --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:24, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

At the risk of going round in circles, again the Pat Robertson comment - with respect, who is this guy? (I don't mean literally - I know who he is) There is no indication of how his opinion is relevant - whether or not you consider it to be true, it just sounds like abuse, which just undermines the credibility of (at least) the whole article. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:04, 04 May 2007 (BST)

:Mr. Robertson's opinion is important as an example of Conservative thinking. Here at Conservapedia [[homosexuality]] is taken very seriously as can be seen at that article and others such as [[homosexual agenda]], [[gay rights]], [[homophobia]] and their accompanying talk pages. It is important that such matters are given a prominent position in Conservapedia, for example the [[Main Page]] news items such as [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=139637 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=131062 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=130326 this] and [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=85632 this]. Such conservative facts ([[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|Differences with Wikipedia No. 9]]) are always displayed prominently and not censored like at the [[Liberal bias|liberally biased]] [[Examples of Bias in Wikipedia|Wikipedia]]. In fact I think the information in question should appear right at the top of the article.
:[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 15:12, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::Ok. Pat Robertson's opinions are clearly in line with many(most? ..I don't know) conservative thinkers, at least in the US. ('Conservative' has a related but slightly different meaning in the UK)

::(from [[Racism]]) 'Racism is making broad generalizations about a group of people based on percieved notions' - articles in the press are designed to be provocative and inflammatory - that doesn't necessarily cast doubt on the truth of the information they refer to, but they are far from a foolproof source, not very indicative of the nature of a culture.
::I'm not accusing Pat Robertson of racism, but he's a bit close to the wire. (I suspect he would argue about 'perceived notions' - and whether he was making a 'broad generalisation')

::I'm not sure what you mean by 'Conservative Facts' - it's definitely a fact that Pat Robertson said that, but the truth of it is a different thing altogether..

::I understand that it is important that the guiding principles of Conservapedia are enforced, but the article seems to have more to say about the authors' abhorrence of homosexuality than it does about it's subject matter - irrespective of your views, that doesn't do any good at all.

--[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:03, 07 May 2007 (BST)

==References==
<references/>

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-07T10:39:33Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* homosexuality and the kilt - the link */

One thing; it's slightly disputed that Golf is a Scottish invention, just wondered if it should be in there... btw no offence to Scots genuine concern --[[User:Daerean|Daerean]] 15:03, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

in scottland, the kilt(that spelled right?) isnt that like your family's colors? --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 11:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes Will N, the kilt is a tradtional dress still worn at weddings and social functions that is made in the clan (think family) tartan. Each tartan is comprised of colours specific to that family.

And Ed Poor, please can you stop removing the kilt picture. It is incredibly disrespectful to the Scots to remove not only a picture depicting their National dress but also their First Minister. The kilt has nothing to do with homosexuality, which frankly, is a topic that is discussed far too often on this site. [[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 12:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

== Kilts ==

Kilts are an item of dress, it is the tartan that has an association with families, or more accurately, Clan. In addition many public bodies have their own particular tartan. In the picture, Jack McConnell is seen wearing a pin-stripe kilt as part of an effort to promote Tartan Day.

Kilts are often made from Family/Clan Tartans, though not exclusively - there are many designs that have no particular family affiliation (such as Regimental designs) - Kilts are aso worn with somewhat plainer designs as well, and have even been made from leather..
I think the map is more appropriate than the pic of Jack McConnell - he is an elected representative, and does not necessarily epitomise Scottishness (indeed - pending the outcome of the general election on Thursday 03-May-2007, he may or may not continue as First Minister.) --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 17:45, 01 May 2007 (BST)

I've replaced the picture with one more <s>dull</s> appropriate.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 08:49, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== homosexuality and the kilt - the link ==
[[Image:JackMcConnell.png|right|thumb|A scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)]]'
em there is none - and I suggest any americans who visit scotland don't make suggest that linkage to members of, for example, her Maj's 51 (Scottish) Brigade. A frank and full exchange of viewpoints might then occur! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 15:05, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

:This being Conservapedia, surely one would expect the description of Scotland by the leading [[conservative]] [[Christian]] [[Pat Robertson]], to be included in the article. He described Scotland as a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''"<ref>http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/02/scotland.robertson/</ref>. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 05:57, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::Not in the lead. And not [[out of context]]. Also, a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid [[kilt]] makes more of a statement about [[homosexuality]], [[gender identity disorder]] or [[cross-dressing]] than it does about Scotland. Try to keep your mind on the purpose of this project. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:33, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::What? since when is a skirt and a kilt the same thing? Ed, you're way in the wrong on this one. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 08:42, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Ed, you are wrong - check out this website to see how the kilt is evolving - traditional kilts are only part of it [http://www.21stcenturykilts.com/home.htm].

::::Wrong about what? Please restate the assertion you think I have made. (The fashion photo you showed me of contemporary young people doesn't tell me what you mean.) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: You asserted that "a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid kilt makes more of a statement about homosexuality, gender identity disorder or cross-dressing than it does about Scotland." Whereas the link I provided shows that all kinds of non-traditional materials (denim, leather, camouflage patterns, tweed, pinstripe suit cloth, etc.) are being used to make kilts. The photo is of a man in a modern kilt. You assert that it is a skirt. Homosexuality and transvestisism are in no way associated with modern kilts. You assert that they are. To Scots, such words are particularly offensive.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 09:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::[[User:Ed Poor|Ed]], even if the quote was [[out of context]] what is wrong with showing the conservative view of Scotland? Pro-Gaiety and homosexualism is rife in Scotland:
::*The repeal of laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in schools <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/800673.stm</ref>
::*The legalisation of so called gay marriage <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4494882.stm </ref>
::*Allowing homosexuals to adopt children <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1356432006 </ref>
::*Allowing homosexual teachers to teach homosexual sex to children <ref>http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=754672006</ref>
::*Open encouragement of homosexual soldiers and policemen <ref>http://www.gpascotland.com/050827.htm</ref>
::*The banning of pro-Christian opinions at sports events <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=387732007</ref>
::Those are just a few from the multitude of examples of how the [[homosexual agenda]] is permeating Scotland. Surely Scotland is a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''" and this should be reflected here?
::[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 09:07, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Kilts are *not* skirts - the difference isn't subtle... it's interesting the connection some draw between 'cross-dressing' and kilt wearing; whenever I wear my kilt (especially in England and elsewhere) it usually attracts lots of attention from women...
'a dark country full of homosexuals' - I'm not even going to be drawn on that one, but featuring it prominently hardly does anything for the credibility of the article as a whole. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:03, 02 May 2007 (BST)

:Spin, your statement that a [[kilt]] is not a skirt disagrees with the caption Nick put on the image to our upper right. The words ''Scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)'' imply (1) that the man was wearing a skirt and (2) that a skirt is known as a kilt in Scotland.

:Would the two of you please sort this out. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 10:09, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I see your point. The article that Jack McConnell is wearing is a kilt. Skirts are not known as kilts - the two words are not synonymous. Although kilts are mostly associated with male attire, this isn't universally true by any means. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:21, 02 May 2007 (BST)

Might be worth clarifying the whole kilt issue, either by adding to this article (Traditional Attire section?) or by creating a separate linked page for the kilt. Perhaps one of our resident Scots would be able to? --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I'd be happy that the image be replaced with a piper but I'm having difficulty finding a fair use one. Probably worth noting that most images of pipers will be in full ceremonial garb (kilt, sporran, etc). Perhaps someone will have more luck than I finding a suitable image. --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:24, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

At the risk of going round in circles, again the Pat Robertson comment - with respect, who is this guy? (I don't mean literally - I know who he is) There is no indication of how his opinion is relevant - whether or not you consider it to be true, it just sounds like abuse, which just undermines the credibility of (at least) the whole article. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:04, 04 May 2007 (BST)

:Mr. Robertson's opinion is important as an example of Conservative thinking. Here at Conservapedia [[homosexuality]] is taken very seriously as can be seen at that article and others such as [[homosexual agenda]], [[gay rights]], [[homophobia]] and their accompanying talk pages. It is important that such matters are given a prominent position in Conservapedia, for example the [[Main Page]] news items such as [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=139637 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=131062 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=130326 this] and [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=85632 this]. Such conservative facts ([[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|Differences with Wikipedia No. 9]]) are always displayed prominently and not censored like at the [[Liberal bias|liberally biased]] [[Examples of Bias in Wikipedia|Wikipedia]]. In fact I think the information in question should appear right at the top of the article.
:[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 15:12, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::Ok. Pat Robertson's opinions are clearly in line with many(most? ..I don't know) conservative thinkers, at least in the US. ('Conservative' has a related but slightly different meaning in the UK)

::(from [[Racism]]) 'Racism is making broad generalizations about a group of people based on percieved notions' - articles in the press are designed to be provocative and inflammatory - that doesn't necessarily cast doubt on the truth of the information they refer to, but they are far from a foolproof source, not very indicative of the nature of a culture.
::I'm not accusing Pat Robertson of racism, but he's a bit close to the wire. (I suspect he would argue about 'perceived notions' - and whether he was making a 'broad generalisation')

:I'm not sure what you mean by 'Conservative Facts' - it's definitely a fact that Pat Robertson said that, but the truth of it is a different thing altogether..

::I understand that it is important that the guiding principles of Conservapedia are enforced, but the article seems to have more to say about the authors' abhorrence of homosexuality than it does about it's subject matter - irrespective of your views, that doesn't do any good at all.

--[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:03, 07 May 2007 (BST)

==References==
<references/>

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-07T10:39:01Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* homosexuality and the kilt - the link */

One thing; it's slightly disputed that Golf is a Scottish invention, just wondered if it should be in there... btw no offence to Scots genuine concern --[[User:Daerean|Daerean]] 15:03, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

in scottland, the kilt(that spelled right?) isnt that like your family's colors? --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 11:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes Will N, the kilt is a tradtional dress still worn at weddings and social functions that is made in the clan (think family) tartan. Each tartan is comprised of colours specific to that family.

And Ed Poor, please can you stop removing the kilt picture. It is incredibly disrespectful to the Scots to remove not only a picture depicting their National dress but also their First Minister. The kilt has nothing to do with homosexuality, which frankly, is a topic that is discussed far too often on this site. [[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 12:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

== Kilts ==

Kilts are an item of dress, it is the tartan that has an association with families, or more accurately, Clan. In addition many public bodies have their own particular tartan. In the picture, Jack McConnell is seen wearing a pin-stripe kilt as part of an effort to promote Tartan Day.

Kilts are often made from Family/Clan Tartans, though not exclusively - there are many designs that have no particular family affiliation (such as Regimental designs) - Kilts are aso worn with somewhat plainer designs as well, and have even been made from leather..
I think the map is more appropriate than the pic of Jack McConnell - he is an elected representative, and does not necessarily epitomise Scottishness (indeed - pending the outcome of the general election on Thursday 03-May-2007, he may or may not continue as First Minister.) --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 17:45, 01 May 2007 (BST)

I've replaced the picture with one more <s>dull</s> appropriate.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 08:49, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== homosexuality and the kilt - the link ==
[[Image:JackMcConnell.png|right|thumb|A scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)]]'
em there is none - and I suggest any americans who visit scotland don't make suggest that linkage to members of, for example, her Maj's 51 (Scottish) Brigade. A frank and full exchange of viewpoints might then occur! --[[User:Cgday|Cgday]] 15:05, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

:This being Conservapedia, surely one would expect the description of Scotland by the leading [[conservative]] [[Christian]] [[Pat Robertson]], to be included in the article. He described Scotland as a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''"<ref>http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/02/scotland.robertson/</ref>. [[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 05:57, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::Not in the lead. And not [[out of context]]. Also, a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid [[kilt]] makes more of a statement about [[homosexuality]], [[gender identity disorder]] or [[cross-dressing]] than it does about Scotland. Try to keep your mind on the purpose of this project. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:33, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::What? since when is a skirt and a kilt the same thing? Ed, you're way in the wrong on this one. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 08:42, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

:::Ed, you are wrong - check out this website to see how the kilt is evolving - traditional kilts are only part of it [http://www.21stcenturykilts.com/home.htm].

::::Wrong about what? Please restate the assertion you think I have made. (The fashion photo you showed me of contemporary young people doesn't tell me what you mean.) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:58, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::::: You asserted that "a photo of a man in a skirt rather than in a traditional plaid kilt makes more of a statement about homosexuality, gender identity disorder or cross-dressing than it does about Scotland." Whereas the link I provided shows that all kinds of non-traditional materials (denim, leather, camouflage patterns, tweed, pinstripe suit cloth, etc.) are being used to make kilts. The photo is of a man in a modern kilt. You assert that it is a skirt. Homosexuality and transvestisism are in no way associated with modern kilts. You assert that they are. To Scots, such words are particularly offensive.[[User:LordWhimsey|LordWhimsey]] 09:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

::[[User:Ed Poor|Ed]], even if the quote was [[out of context]] what is wrong with showing the conservative view of Scotland? Pro-Gaiety and homosexualism is rife in Scotland:
::*The repeal of laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in schools <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/800673.stm</ref>
::*The legalisation of so called gay marriage <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4494882.stm </ref>
::*Allowing homosexuals to adopt children <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1356432006 </ref>
::*Allowing homosexual teachers to teach homosexual sex to children <ref>http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=754672006</ref>
::*Open encouragement of homosexual soldiers and policemen <ref>http://www.gpascotland.com/050827.htm</ref>
::*The banning of pro-Christian opinions at sports events <ref>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=387732007</ref>
::Those are just a few from the multitude of examples of how the [[homosexual agenda]] is permeating Scotland. Surely Scotland is a "''dark country full of [[homosexual]]s''" and this should be reflected here?
::[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 09:07, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Kilts are *not* skirts - the difference isn't subtle... it's interesting the connection some draw between 'cross-dressing' and kilt wearing; whenever I wear my kilt (especially in England and elsewhere) it usually attracts lots of attention from women...
'a dark country full of homosexuals' - I'm not even going to be drawn on that one, but featuring it prominently hardly does anything for the credibility of the article as a whole. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:03, 02 May 2007 (BST)

:Spin, your statement that a [[kilt]] is not a skirt disagrees with the caption Nick put on the image to our upper right. The words ''Scotsman wearing his skirt (known as a [[kilt]] in Scotland)'' imply (1) that the man was wearing a skirt and (2) that a skirt is known as a kilt in Scotland.

:Would the two of you please sort this out. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 10:09, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I see your point. The article that Jack McConnell is wearing is a kilt. Skirts are not known as kilts - the two words are not synonymous. Although kilts are mostly associated with male attire, this isn't universally true by any means. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 15:21, 02 May 2007 (BST)

Might be worth clarifying the whole kilt issue, either by adding to this article (Traditional Attire section?) or by creating a separate linked page for the kilt. Perhaps one of our resident Scots would be able to? --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:06, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I'd be happy that the image be replaced with a piper but I'm having difficulty finding a fair use one. Probably worth noting that most images of pipers will be in full ceremonial garb (kilt, sporran, etc). Perhaps someone will have more luck than I finding a suitable image. --[[User:Trashbat|Trashbat]] 13:24, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

At the risk of going round in circles, again the Pat Robertson comment - with respect, who is this guy? (I don't mean literally - I know who he is) There is no indication of how his opinion is relevant - whether or not you consider it to be true, it just sounds like abuse, which just undermines the credibility of (at least) the whole article. --[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:04, 04 May 2007 (BST)

:Mr. Robertson's opinion is important as an example of Conservative thinking. Here at Conservapedia [[homosexuality]] is taken very seriously as can be seen at that article and others such as [[homosexual agenda]], [[gay rights]], [[homophobia]] and their accompanying talk pages. It is important that such matters are given a prominent position in Conservapedia, for example the [[Main Page]] news items such as [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=139637 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=131062 this], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=130326 this] and [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Tfa&oldid=85632 this]. Such conservative facts ([[Conservapedia:Differences with Wikipedia|Differences with Wikipedia No. 9]]) are always displayed prominently and not censored like at the [[Liberal bias|liberally biased]] [[Examples of Bias in Wikipedia|Wikipedia]]. In fact I think the information in question should appear right at the top of the article.
:[[User:Auld Nick|Auld Nick]] 15:12, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

::Ok. Pat Robertson's opinions are clearly in line with many(most? ..I don't know) conservative thinkers, at least in the US. ('Conservative' has a related but slightly different meaning in the UK)

::(from [[Racism]]) 'Racism is making broad generalizations about a group of people based on percieved notions' - articles in the press are designed to be provocative and inflammatory - that doesn't necessarily cast doubt on the truth of the information they refer to, but they are far from a foolproof source, not very indicative of the nature of a culture.
I'm not accusing Pat Robertson of racism, but he's a bit close to the wire. (I suspect he would argue about 'perceived notions' - and whether he was making a 'broad generalisation')

:I'm not sure what you mean by 'Conservative Facts' - it's definitely a fact that Pat Robertson said that, but the truth of it is a different thing altogether..

::I understand that it is important that the guiding principles of Conservapedia are enforced, but the article seems to have more to say about the authors' abhorrence of homosexuality than it does about it's subject matter - irrespective of your views, that doesn't do any good at all.

--[[User:SpinnakerMagic|SpinnakerMagic]] 11:03, 07 May 2007 (BST)

==References==
<references/>

Scotland

2007-05-07T09:48:42Z

SpinnakerMagic: removed 'Rome invaded Scotland in 43AD, and by 79AD had conquered the area in earnest.' - not true - The Romans did invade and occupy parts of Scotland, but it was never 'conquered'

== Introduction ==
'''Scotland''' is the second largest country of the [[United Kingdom]].
It is about three-eighths the size of its larger neighbor England, but is much less populous; most of the population lives in the ''central belt'', a band across central Scotland between the capital [[Edinburgh]] and the city of [[Glasgow]]. Other cities are [[Aberdeen]], [[Dundee]] and [[Inverness]].

Scotland includes the island groups of [[Orkney]], [[Shetland]], the [[Inner Hebrides|Inner]] and [[Outer Hebrides]], the islands of the [[Firth of Clyde]] including [[Arran]], [[Bute]], [[Cumbrae]] & [[Wee Cumbrae]] and various other smaller islands.

[[Ben Nevis]], the highest mountain in the [[United Kingdom]], is in the Scottish [[Highlands of Scotland|Highlands]], as are most of the nations highest mountains. Those with heights above 914m (300 feet) are eponymously named [[Munro| Munros]] after Sir Hector Munro, the first person to compile such a list.<ref> for a complete list of Munros see http://www.sol.co.uk/d/dickwall/munroes.htm</ref>

== History ==
Scotland has been inhabited since at least 8500BC, when the first [[Mesolithic]] hunter-gatherers are thought to have migrated to Scotland. These inhabitants showed advanced knowledge of astronomy, creating several [[Stonehenge]]-like sculptures.

=== Roman Period ===

=== Late Medieval (Braveheart) ===
=== Union with Britain ===
=== Modern Scotland ===

== Scottish Cultural Positions ==
[[Image:JackMcConnell.png|right|thumb|Jack McConnell. 3rd.First Minister of Scotland 2001-2007. A leading figure in the implementation of the alleged homosexual agenda.]]

Scotland is historically Christian, the national church is the [[Church of Scotland]], but the promotion of the [[gay rights]] movement has led the leading [[conservative]] [[Christian]] [[Pat Robertson]] to describe Scotland as "dark country full of [[homosexuals]]"<ref>[http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/02/scotland.robertson/ 'Dark land' with 'strong homosexuals,' televangelist says]</ref>. This homosexual agenda is exemplified by the repeal of laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in schools<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/800673.stm MSPs abolish Section 28]</ref>, the legalization of [[same-sex marriage]]<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4494882.stm Same-sex couples embrace equality ]</ref>, the [[adoption]] of children by homosexuals<ref>[http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1356432006 MSPs approve gay adoption]</ref>, teaching safe sex in schools<ref>[http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=754672006 Schools told to give pupils gay sex advice]</ref>, [[affirmative action]] for homosexual soldiers and policemen<ref>[http://www.gpascotland.com/050827.htm Army marches in Gay Pride parade]</ref>, forcing religious schools to employ [[Atheism|atheist]] teachers<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4787496.stm Atheist teacher wins job tribunal]</ref>, an increase in [[abortion]]<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/5012064.stm Abortion level at all-time high]</ref>, denial of increased sanctions against [[Child molesting|pedophiles]] <ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4031625.stm 'Make friends with a pedophile']</ref> and the banning of the expression of pro-Christian sentiment at sports events<ref>[http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=387732007 Anti-gay chants to be banned from terraces]</ref>.

==Union with England==

[[Image:Lion rampant.png|thumb|right|The Scottish Royal Coat of Arms- Better known as the Lion Rampant]]

After the death of Queen [[Elizabeth I]] of England in 1603, James VI of Scotland ascended to the Throne of England, becoming [[James I]] of England. He was the first monarch to call himself King of Great Britain. This is referred to as the Union of the Crowns. James was also at this time King of [[Ireland]].

The Parliaments of Scotland and [[England]] were not united until 1707 and it is this date that is recognized as the formation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. This is referred to as the Union of the Parliaments. The formation of the [[Irish Republic]] in 1922 resulted in the current name of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Scotland has its own Parliament of 129 members as well as sending 59 Members of Parliament(MPs) to represent its interests in the [[United Kingdom]] parliament which sits in [[London]]. Scottish MPs have historically been recognized for their political skills and appointed to the Cabinet in larger numbers than is proportionate. The current [[Chancellor of the Exchequer]], and expected future prime minister [[Gordon Brown]], is Scottish.

Relationships between Scottish and English MPs before [[devolution]] were sometimes tense because of what the former [[Conservative|Conservative Party]] MP, by then an [[Ulster Unionist]], [[Enoch Powell]] dubbed ''The West Lothian question''. The name arose in 1977 after [[Tam Dalyell]], Labour MP for West Lothian in Scotland, asked during a debate in the [[Houses of Parliament]] over Scottish and Welsh [[devolution]]:

<blockquote>''For how long will English constituencies and English Honourable members tolerate... at least 119 Honourable Members from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland exercising an important, and probably often decisive, effect on British politics while they themselves have no say in the same matters in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?''</blockquote>

He pointed out that he as MP for West Lothian could vote on matters affecting English constituencies but not his own constituency.

==Cities==
[[Image:Scotland.gif|thumb|right|250px|A map of Scotland.]]

Scotland has four major cities. They are [[Aberdeen]], [[Dundee]], [[Edinburgh]] and [[Glasgow]].

== Sports and culture==

The national preoccupation is football ([[soccer]]). Other diversions include [[rugby union]], lawn bowls, [[chanty wrassling]] (a native form of [[wrestling]]), [[pocket billiards]], shinty (similar to hockey), [[cricket]], [[curling]], sports of the [[Highland Games]] - such as tossing the caber and, of course, [[golf]] - Scotland is the home of golf. The Royal and Ancient Golf Club at [[St Andrews]] is the governing body of world golf.

[[Scotland]]'s 'other' national drink, Irn Bru (formerly "Iron Brew"), is a bubblegum-flavored carbonated drink manufactured by A.G.Barr of [[Glasgow]], and claims to be "made in Scotland from girders". An advert for it uses the music and animation style of "[[The Snowman]]".

Scotland is famous for its disproportionate amount of inventions and discoveries (as immortalized in [[Wha's Like Us]]), its world class universities, the Scottish Enlightenment, being the one of the first industrial nations while still preserving some of the last great wildernesses of Europe, and being the home of [[golf]].

The symbol of Scotland is the thistle. The Scottish flag is the Cross of St. Andrew, a white diagonal cross on a dark blue background. The design originated in the 9th century and it is the oldest national flag still in use anywhere in the world. Other things associated with the country are [[kilts]] ([[tartan]] skirts worn by Scotsmen), and the haunting music of the [[bagpipes]]. Famous Scottish products include [[pie]]s, [[haggis]], toleys and Scotch [[whisky]].

Scotland's motto is ''Nemo Me Impune Lacessit'' ("No-one provokes me with impunity")<ref>http://www.scotland-guide.co.uk/ALL_AREAS_IN_SCOTLAND/Glasgow/Areas/Centre/Mercat_Cross.htm </ref> which translates as ''Wha daur meddle wi me?'' in [[Scots]] and in [[English]] as ''Who would dare mess with me?''.

==External Links==
*[http://www.n-cyclopedia.com/scottish-history/index.htm A Brief History of Scotland]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Scotland]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-04T10:04:26Z

SpinnakerMagic:

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-03T13:18:23Z

SpinnakerMagic:

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-02T17:19:15Z

SpinnakerMagic:

{{userboxtop|SpinnakerMagic}}
{{Userbox |white|white|[[Image:Lion_rampant.png‎ ]]|This User is proud to be Scottish (Wha's Like Us?)}}
{{Userbox |white|white|[[Image:Bike_symbol.gif‎ ‎ ]]|This User is a diehard cyclist}}
{{User Political Compass|-7.5|-6.41}}
{{User Evo}}
{{User en-UK}}
{{User gay is ok}}
{{userboxbottom}}

Scotland

2007-05-02T17:13:37Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* Fame */

[[Image:Scotland.gif|thumb|right|250px|A map of Scotland.]]

'''Scotland''' is the second largest country of the [[United Kingdom]].
It is about three-eighths the size of its larger neighbor England, but is much less populous; most of the population lives in the ''central belt'', a band across central Scotland between the capital [[Edinburgh]] and the city of [[Glasgow]]. Other cities are [[Aberdeen]], [[Dundee]] and [[Inverness]].

Scotland includes the island groups of [[Orkney]], [[Shetland]], the [[Inner Hebrides|Inner]] and [[Outer Hebrides]], the islands of the [[Firth of Clyde]] including [[Arran]], [[Bute]], [[Cumbrae]] & [[Wee Cumbrae]] and various other smaller islands.

[[Ben Nevis]], the highest mountain in the [[United Kingdom]], is in the Scottish [[Highlands of Scotland|Highlands]], as are most of the nations highest mountains. Those with heights above 914m (300 feet) are eponymously named [[Munro| Munros]] after Sir Hector Munro, the first person to compile such a list.<ref> for a complete list of Munros see http://www.sol.co.uk/d/dickwall/munroes.htm</ref>

Scotland is predominantly Christian - the national Church is the [[Church of Scotland]].

==Union with England==
[[Image:Lion rampant.png|thumb|right|The Scottish Royal Coat of Arms- Better known as the Lion Rampant]]
After the death of Queen [[Elizabeth I]] of England in 1603, James VI of Scotland ascended to the Throne of England, becoming [[James I]] of England. He was the first monarch to call himself King of Great Britain. This is referred to as the Union of the Crowns. James was also at this time King of [[Ireland]].

The Parliaments of Scotland and [[England]] were not united until 1707 and it is this date that is recognized as the formation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. This is referred to as the Union of the Parliaments. The formation of the [[Irish Republic]] in 1922 resulted in the current name of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Scotland has its own Parliament of 129 members as well as sending 59 Members of Parliament(MPs) to represent its interests in the [[United Kingdom]] parliament which sits in [[London]]. Scottish MPs have historically been recognized for their political skills and appointed to the Cabinet in larger numbers than is proportionate. The current [[Chancellor of the Exchequer]], and expected future prime minister [[Gordon Brown]], is Scottish.

Relationships between Scottish and English MPs before [[devolution]] were sometimes tense because of what the former [[Conservative|Conservative Party]] MP, by then an [[Ulster Unionist]], [[Enoch Powell]] dubbed ''The West Lothian question''. The name arose in 1977 after [[Tam Dalyell]], Labour MP for West Lothian in Scotland, asked during a debate in the [[Houses of Parliament]] over Scottish and Welsh [[devolution]]:

<blockquote>''For how long will English constituencies and English Honourable members tolerate... at least 119 Honourable Members from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland exercising an important, and probably often decisive, effect on British politics while they themselves have no say in the same matters in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?''</blockquote>

He pointed out that he as MP for West Lothian could vote on matters affecting English constituencies but not his own constituency.

==Fame==
[[Image:JackMcConnell.png|right|thumb|First Minister the Rt Hon Jack McConnell wearing traditional Scottish attire including a [[kilt]]]]

Scotland is famous for its disproportionate amount of inventions and discoveries (as immortalized in [[Wha's Like Us]]), its world class universities, the Scottish Enlightenment, being the first country to adopt English as its official language decades before England{{fact}}, being the one of the first industrial nations while still preserving some of the last great wildernesses of Europe, and being the home of [[golf]] and the [[Loch Ness Monster]].

The symbol of Scotland is the thistle. The Scottish flag is the Cross of St. Andrew, a white diagonal cross on a dark blue background. The design originated in the 9th century and it is the oldest national flag still in use anywhere in the world. Other things associated with the country are [[kilts]] ([[tartan]] skirts worn by Scotsmen), and the haunting music of the [[bagpipes]]. Famous Scottish products include [[pie]]s, [[haggis]], toleys and Scotch [[whisky]].

Scotland's motto is ''Nemo Me Impune Lacessit'' ("No-one provokes me with impunity")<ref>http://www.scotland-guide.co.uk/ALL_AREAS_IN_SCOTLAND/Glasgow/Areas/Centre/Mercat_Cross.htm </ref> which translates as ''Wha daur meddle wi me?'' in [[Scots]] and in [[English]] as ''Who would dare mess with me?''.

== Sports and culture==

The national preoccupation is football ([[soccer]]). Other diversions include [[rugby union]], lawn bowls, [[chanty wrassling]] (a native form of [[wrestling]]), [[pocket billiards]], shinty (similar to hockey), [[cricket]], curling, tossing the caber and, of course, [[golf]] - Scotland is the home of golf. The Royal and Ancient Golf Club at [[St Andrews]] is the governing body of world golf.

[[Scotland]]'s 'other' national drink, Irn Bru (formerly "Iron Brew"), is a bubblegum-flavored carbonated drink manufactured by A.G.Barr of [[Glasgow]], and claims to be "made in Scotland from girders". An advert for it uses the music and animation style of "[[The Snowman]]".

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Scotland]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]

Aberdeen

2007-05-02T17:02:20Z

SpinnakerMagic: The City of Aberdeen's motto is 'Bon Accord', not 'Gie Ye The Bowk'

The third largest city in [[Scotland]], '''Aberdeen''' is located in the north east of Scotland, between the mouths of the rivers Dee and Don (collectively known as the tweedles, from the Scots word "tweed" which means river).

The city's motto is ''Bon Accord'' which, roughly translated from the [[French]], means ''Good Agreement''.

Aberdeen is the major logistical center of the [[North Sea]] [[oil]] industry and is also famous as a [[fishing]] port and a center of educational excellence. From late Medieval times until the late 19th century, Aberdeen was home to as many universities as the whole of [[England]].

Aberdeen is known as the [[Granite]] City (sometimes also The Silver City with the Golden Sands) from the stone used in the construction of its many fine public buildings. A person from Aberdeen is called an Aberdonian. Aberdonians have a reputation for stinginess and, it is alleged, copper wire was invented by two Aberdonians fighting over a penny. Aberdeen is the least religious city in Scotland. <ref>http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/ACCI/nmsruntime/saveasdialog.asp?lID=1726&sID=332</ref> As a result of its involvement in the oil industry Aberdeen is home to many foreign nationals. There are large communities of Americans, French, Dutch, Saudi Arabians, Kuwaitis, Poles, Chileans, Venezuelans, Outer Mongolians, Nepalese and Filipinos. The richest of these live in the salubrious suburb of Torry, which lies south of the River Dee; the 'millionaire's row' on the waterfront boasts extensive views of the riverscape and city centre. Other suburban districts of note include Sandilands, Mastrick, Kincorth, Ferryhill, Altens and Bridge of Don.

===Sport===

[[Aberdeen FC]] (nickname: the Dons) is the city's only senior football club. Home matches are played at Pittodrie whose name derives from the Pictish for dung heap. The current manager is [[Jimmy Calderwood]].

===Famous Aberdonians===

* Robbie Shepherd
* Buff Hardie
* John Laurie
* Denis Law
* Willie Pullar

There are also cities called Aberdeen in [[Texas]], [[South Dakota]], [[Wyoming]], [[Utah]], [[California]], [[New Mexico]], and [[Alabama]] in the [[United States]], and [[Northern Australia]], [[New South Wales]], and [[Tasmania]] in [[Australia]].

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]

Scotland

2007-05-02T16:57:03Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* Union with England */

[[Image:Scotland.gif|thumb|right|250px|A map of Scotland.]]

'''Scotland''' is the second largest country of the [[United Kingdom]].
It is about three-eighths the size of its larger neighbor England, but is much less populous; most of the population lives in the ''central belt'', a band across central Scotland between the capital [[Edinburgh]] and the city of [[Glasgow]]. Other cities are [[Aberdeen]], [[Dundee]] and [[Inverness]].

Scotland includes the island groups of [[Orkney]], [[Shetland]], the [[Inner Hebrides|Inner]] and [[Outer Hebrides]], the islands of the [[Firth of Clyde]] including [[Arran]], [[Bute]], [[Cumbrae]] & [[Wee Cumbrae]] and various other smaller islands.

[[Ben Nevis]], the highest mountain in the [[United Kingdom]], is in the Scottish [[Highlands of Scotland|Highlands]], as are most of the nations highest mountains. Those with heights above 914m (300 feet) are eponymously named [[Munro| Munros]] after Sir Hector Munro, the first person to compile such a list.<ref> for a complete list of Munros see http://www.sol.co.uk/d/dickwall/munroes.htm</ref>

Scotland is predominantly Christian - the national Church is the [[Church of Scotland]].

==Union with England==
[[Image:Lion rampant.png|thumb|right|The Scottish Royal Coat of Arms- Better known as the Lion Rampant]]
After the death of Queen [[Elizabeth I]] of England in 1603, James VI of Scotland ascended to the Throne of England, becoming [[James I]] of England. He was the first monarch to call himself King of Great Britain. This is referred to as the Union of the Crowns. James was also at this time King of [[Ireland]].

The Parliaments of Scotland and [[England]] were not united until 1707 and it is this date that is recognized as the formation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. This is referred to as the Union of the Parliaments. The formation of the [[Irish Republic]] in 1922 resulted in the current name of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Scotland has its own Parliament of 129 members as well as sending 59 Members of Parliament(MPs) to represent its interests in the [[United Kingdom]] parliament which sits in [[London]]. Scottish MPs have historically been recognized for their political skills and appointed to the Cabinet in larger numbers than is proportionate. The current [[Chancellor of the Exchequer]], and expected future prime minister [[Gordon Brown]], is Scottish.

Relationships between Scottish and English MPs before [[devolution]] were sometimes tense because of what the former [[Conservative|Conservative Party]] MP, by then an [[Ulster Unionist]], [[Enoch Powell]] dubbed ''The West Lothian question''. The name arose in 1977 after [[Tam Dalyell]], Labour MP for West Lothian in Scotland, asked during a debate in the [[Houses of Parliament]] over Scottish and Welsh [[devolution]]:

<blockquote>''For how long will English constituencies and English Honourable members tolerate... at least 119 Honourable Members from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland exercising an important, and probably often decisive, effect on British politics while they themselves have no say in the same matters in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?''</blockquote>

He pointed out that he as MP for West Lothian could vote on matters affecting English constituencies but not his own constituency.

==Fame==
[[Image:Bekilted_Scotsman.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Sean Connery illustrates the allure of the Kilt, Scotland's traditional alternative to pants.]]

Scotland is famous for its disproportionate amount of inventions and discoveries (as immortalized in [[Wha's Like Us]]), its world class universities, the Scottish Enlightenment, being the first country to adopt English as its official language decades before England{{fact}}, being the one of the first industrial nations while still preserving some of the last great wildernesses of Europe, and being the home of [[golf]] and the [[Loch Ness Monster]].

The symbol of Scotland is the thistle. The Scottish flag is the Cross of St. Andrew, a white diagonal cross on a dark blue background. The design originated in the 9th century and it is the oldest national flag still in use anywhere in the world. Other things associated with the country are [[kilts]] ([[tartan]] skirts worn by Scotsmen), and the haunting music of the [[bagpipes]]. Famous Scottish products include [[pie]]s, [[haggis]], toleys and Scotch [[whisky]].

Scotland's motto is ''Nemo Me Impune Lacessit'' ("No-one provokes me with impunity")<ref>http://www.scotland-guide.co.uk/ALL_AREAS_IN_SCOTLAND/Glasgow/Areas/Centre/Mercat_Cross.htm </ref> which translates as ''Wha daur meddle wi me?'' in [[Scots]] and in [[English]] as ''Who would dare mess with me?''.

== Sports and culture==

The national preoccupation is football ([[soccer]]). Other diversions include [[rugby union]], lawn bowls, [[chanty wrassling]] (a native form of [[wrestling]]), [[pocket billiards]], shinty (similar to hockey), [[cricket]], curling, tossing the caber and, of course, [[golf]] - Scotland is the home of golf. The Royal and Ancient Golf Club at [[St Andrews]] is the governing body of world golf.

[[Scotland]]'s 'other' national drink, Irn Bru (formerly "Iron Brew"), is a bubblegum-flavored carbonated drink manufactured by A.G.Barr of [[Glasgow]], and claims to be "made in Scotland from girders". An advert for it uses the music and animation style of "[[The Snowman]]".

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Scotland]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-02T16:45:42Z

SpinnakerMagic:

{{userboxtop|SpinnakerMagic}}
{{Userbox |white|white|[[Image:Lion_rampant.png‎ ]]|This User is proud to be Scottish}}
{{Userbox |white|white|[[Image:Bike_symbol.gif‎ ‎ ]]|This User is a diehard cyclist}}
{{User Political Compass|-7.5|-6.41}}
{{User Evo}}
{{User en-UK}}
{{User gay is ok}}
{{userboxbottom}}

File:Bike symbol.gif

2007-05-02T16:45:22Z

SpinnakerMagic:

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-02T16:27:29Z

SpinnakerMagic:

{{userboxtop|SpinnakerMagic}}
{{Userbox |white|white|[[Image:Lion_rampant.png‎ ]]|This User is proud to be Scottish}}
{{User Political Compass|-7.5|-6.41}}
{{User Evo}}
{{User en-UK}}
{{User gay is ok}}
{{userboxbottom}}

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-02T16:27:00Z

SpinnakerMagic:

File:Lion rampant.png

2007-05-02T16:14:38Z

SpinnakerMagic: Scottish Royal Coat of Arms - Lion Rampant

Scottish Royal Coat of Arms - Lion Rampant

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-02T15:54:20Z

SpinnakerMagic:

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-02T15:43:03Z

SpinnakerMagic:

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-02T15:42:18Z

SpinnakerMagic:

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-02T15:40:51Z

SpinnakerMagic:

{{userboxtop|SpinnakerMagic}}
{{UB|Political Compass|x|y|help=''x'' and ''y'' refer to the results of the test at [http://www.politicalcompass.org/].}}
{{userboxbottom}}

User:SpinnakerMagic

2007-05-02T15:35:29Z

SpinnakerMagic: New page: testing

testing

Scotland

2007-05-02T15:04:11Z

SpinnakerMagic:

[[Image:Scotland.gif|thumb|right|250px|A map of Scotland.]]

'''Scotland''' is the second largest country of the [[United Kingdom]].
It is about three-eighths the size of its larger neighbor England, but is much less populous; most of the population lives in the ''central belt'', a band across central Scotland between the capital [[Edinburgh]] and the city of [[Glasgow]]. Other cities are [[Aberdeen]], [[Dundee]] and [[Inverness]].

Scotland includes the island groups of [[Orkney]], [[Shetland]], the [[Inner Hebrides|Inner]] and [[Outer Hebrides]], the islands of the [[Firth of Clyde]] including [[Arran]], [[Bute]], [[Cumbrae]] & [[Wee Cumbrae]] and various other smaller islands.

[[Ben Nevis]], the highest mountain in the [[United Kingdom]], is in the Scottish [[Highlands of Scotland|Highlands]], as are most of the nations highest mountains. Those with heights above 914m (300 feet) are eponymously named [[Munro| Munros]] after Sir Hector Munro, the first person to compile such a list.<ref> for a complete list of Munros see http://www.sol.co.uk/d/dickwall/munroes.htm</ref>

Scotland is predominantly Christian - the national Church is the [[Church of Scotland]].

==Union with England==
After the death of Queen [[Elizabeth I]] of England in 1603, James VI of Scotland ascended to the Throne of England, becoming [[James I]] of England. He was the first monarch to call himself King of Great Britain. This is referred to as the Union of the Crowns. James was also at this time King of [[Ireland]].

The Parliaments of Scotland and [[England]] were not united until 1707 and it is this date that is recognized as the formation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. This is referred to as the Union of the Parliaments. The formation of the [[Irish Republic]] in 1922 resulted in the current name of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Scotland has its own Parliament of 129 members as well as sending 59 Members of Parliament(MPs) to represent its interests in the [[United Kingdom]] parliament which sits in [[London]]. Scottish MPs have historically been recognized for their political skills and appointed to the Cabinet in larger numbers than is proportionate. The current [[Chancellor of the Exchequer]], and expected future prime minister [[Gordon Brown]], is Scottish.

Relationships between Scottish and English MPs before [[devolution]] were sometimes tense because of what the former [[Conservative|Conservative Party]] MP, by then an [[Ulster Unionist]], [[Enoch Powell]] dubbed ''The West Lothian question''. The name arose in 1977 after [[Tam Dalyell]], Labour MP for West Lothian in Scotland, asked during a debate in the [[Houses of Parliament]] over Scottish and Welsh [[devolution]]:

<blockquote>''For how long will English constituencies and English Honourable members tolerate... at least 119 Honourable Members from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland exercising an important, and probably often decisive, effect on British politics while they themselves have no say in the same matters in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?''</blockquote>

He pointed out that he as MP for West Lothian could vote on matters affecting English constituencies but not his own constituency.

==Fame==
[[Image:Bekilted_Scotsman.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Sean Connery illustrates the allure of the Kilt, Scotland's traditional alternative to pants.]]

Scotland is famous for its disproportionate amount of inventions and discoveries (as immortalized in [[Wha's Like Us]]), its world class universities, the Scottish Enlightenment, being the first country to adopt English as its official language decades before England{{fact}}, being the one of the first industrial nations while still preserving some of the last great wildernesses of Europe, and being the home of [[golf]] and the [[Loch Ness Monster]].

The symbol of Scotland is the thistle. The Scottish flag is the Cross of St. Andrew, a white diagonal cross on a dark blue background. The design originated in the 9th century and it is the oldest national flag still in use anywhere in the world. Other things associated with the country are [[kilts]] ([[tartan]] skirts worn by Scotsmen), and the haunting music of the [[bagpipes]]. Famous Scottish products include [[pie]]s, [[haggis]], toleys and Scotch [[whisky]].

Scotland's motto is ''Nemo Me Impune Lacessit'' ("No-one provokes me with impunity")<ref>http://www.scotland-guide.co.uk/ALL_AREAS_IN_SCOTLAND/Glasgow/Areas/Centre/Mercat_Cross.htm </ref> which translates as ''Wha daur meddle wi me?'' in [[Scots]] and in [[English]] as ''Who would dare mess with me?''.

== Sports and culture==

The national preoccupation is football ([[soccer]]). Other diversions include [[rugby union]], lawn bowls, [[chanty wrassling]] (a native form of [[wrestling]]), [[pocket billiards]], shinty (similar to hockey), [[cricket]], curling, tossing the caber and, of course, [[golf]] - Scotland is the home of golf. The Royal and Ancient Golf Club at [[St Andrews]] is the governing body of world golf.

[[Scotland]]'s 'other' national drink, Irn Bru (formerly "Iron Brew"), is a bubblegum-flavored carbonated drink manufactured by A.G.Barr of [[Glasgow]], and claims to be "made in Scotland from girders". An advert for it uses the music and animation style of "[[The Snowman]]".

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Scotland]]
[[Category:United Kingdom]]

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-02T14:23:57Z

SpinnakerMagic:

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-02T14:21:33Z

SpinnakerMagic:

Edinburgh

2007-05-02T14:12:54Z

SpinnakerMagic: /* Education */ UoE founded in 1583, not 1541 (the royal charter was granted in 1582)

'''Edinburgh''' is the current capital of [[Scotland]]. There is controversy over the origins of the name Edinburgh, which may derive from King Edwin of Northumbria (Edwins-burgh, burgh being the Northumbrian and later [[Scots]] word for fort or town) or from the earlier Gaelic 'Dún Eideann' (Fort of Edwin).

Edinburgh has a population of around half a million souls. It is the home of the Scottish Parliament at [[Holyrood]], the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, and the world's largest annual arts festival, the [[Edinburgh International Festival]].

=== The City and Its People ===

The city is also a centre of banking, commerce, education, and food processing. Natives of Edinburgh are called 'Edinburgers' but are popularly known as 'Fuds' to fellow Scots. The unofficial motto of the city is "You'll hae haed yer tea" which is a rejoinder to the unofficial motto of its great rival [[Glasgow]] - "Yer tea's oot".

=== Education ===

There are three universities in Edinburgh - the University of Edinburgh (1583), Heriot Watt University (1965) and Napier University (1992). The city also has many notable private schools including Fettes College (the ''alma mater'' of [[Tony Blair]]), George Watson's College, George Heriot Academy, Loreto College and the Marcia Blaine School for Girls.

=== Sport ===

Edinburgh has two football clubs; Hibernian FC (nickname: the Hibees) and Heart of Midlothian FC (nickname: the Jambos). Both play in the Scottish Premier League. The famous author Sir Walter Scott wrote a novel''The Heart of Midlothian'' based around the early days of the club and its founder Vladimir Romanov, an exile from Tsarist Russia and friend of the author [[Alexander Pushkin]].

=== Culture ===

[[Paganism]] is still practiced in Edinburgh. Every 30th April sees the Pagan Beltane Fire Festival conducted on Calton Hill near Edinburgh City Centre.<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6610507.stm</ref>

=== Famous natives of Edinburgh ===

*Sean Connery (actor)
*Irvine Welsh (author)
*Les McKeown (classical musician)
*James Connolly (political activist)
*Tam Paton (child psychologist)
*John Leslie (television presenter)
*Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (author)
*Robert Louis Stevenson (author)
*Ian Rankin (author)
*Walter Scott (author)
*James Clerk Maxwell (physicist)
*James Hutton (geologist)
*John Napier (mathematician)
*David Hume (philosopher)
*[[Adam Smith]] (philosopher and economist)
*[[Tony Blair]] (politician and entertainer)
*Malcolm Rifkind (politician)

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Scottish Towns and Cities]]

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-02T14:03:34Z

SpinnakerMagic:

Talk:Haggis

2007-05-01T16:57:26Z

SpinnakerMagic: New page: "a grain, which in England is generally given to horses, but in Scotland supports the people." - ..in England they have fine horses, but in Scotland fine people..

"a grain, which in England is generally given to horses, but in Scotland supports the people." - ..in England they have fine horses, but in Scotland fine people..

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-01T16:45:52Z

SpinnakerMagic:

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-01T16:45:36Z

SpinnakerMagic:

Talk:Scotland

2007-05-01T16:45:14Z

SpinnakerMagic: