Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Abortion

2007-04-23T20:58:28Z

TempestHead: /* Abortion and Breast Cancer */

{{protect|Aschlafly}}

==Maintain the neutrality of the article==
Reading through this article, nearly 1/3 of all the sentences cite a 'fact' yet have no reference. And because it is edit-locked, a mod with a true notion of what it is to create informative articles needs to go over this with a fine tooth comb.--[[User:Nosferatu.feuertote|Nosferatu.feuertote]] 21:18, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

I cannot help but notice that of the TWO citations noted after the claim that abortion is a "billion dollar industry", neither of the linked "references" make any claims about the value of the "abortion industry". I am NOT pro-abortion, however I am PRO-FACT. If you make a claim and list citations directly afterwards, THOSE CITATIONS SHOULD DIRECTLY VERIFY THE CLAIM YOU HAVE JUST MADE! A quote from the first "source":

Republicans say this law is being violated in the interest of making money, although they did not provide specific numbers or incidents.

The second "source makes absolutely no mention of any revenues, potential or actual.

Brian

"The father of medicine, Hippocrates, expressly prohibited abortion in his ethical Oath long before Christianity." Is a bit weasly. Hippocrates also would not perform surgery, and definitely interfering with the heart was out of the question. But we know how many people are prevented from dying through heart-surgery. I fail to see the relevance of mentioning the oath in the first paragraph. [[User:Teji|Teji]] 15:32, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

=="This is Conservapedia"==
Although I would expect that most people who self-identify as "conservatives" ''are'' opposed to abortion, I doubt that all of them are. I don't think opposition to abortion is part of the definition of, or a litmus test for conservatism. Nor do I think it is part of the definition of, or a litmus test for Christianity. Of course one could say that anyone who claims to be a "pro-choice conservative" is not ''really'' a conservative, but that's begging the question.

See, for example, the Seventh-Day Adventists' [http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main_guide1.html nuanced statement] on abortion. Most would regard them as a conservative Christian group. They say:

:prenatal life must not be thoughtlessly destroyed. Abortion should be performed only for the most serious reasons.

:Abortion is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness. The Church should offer gracious support to those who personally face the decision concerning an abortion. Attitudes of condemnation are inappropriate in those who have accepted the gospel.

[[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 13:29, 18 February 2007 (EST)

If this was just Conservative you might have a point, but it is Conservative and Christian. There is no way a Conservative Christian could support abortion in any way. It is contrary to everything in the Bible, so you must be willing to either 1.) Ignore parts of the Bible like some liberal Christians. or ignore all of the Bible like non Christians. Otherwise you can't support abortion. Adventists are as much Conservative as they are Christian--which is to say NOT AT ALL. They are a cult, and ignore the Bible in many significant ways. Come up with better evidence then tehm if you think your point is valid.
--[[User:CWilson|CWilson]] 03:44, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

This is a genuine query to every poster on this page. Somewhere in the Old Testement, I think Dueteronomy, there is an edict on how long a woman remains unclean after abortion/miscarriage, and says something like a woman is unclean for 60 days after aborting a male, but only 30 days after aborting a female. Can anyone please point out the Bilical reference

That's very interesting. The Seventh-Day Adventists run many hospitals, including one in New Jersey. I'm disappointed in its official stance, though I suspect that many adherents to the religion are more opposed to abortion that the statement implies. I doubt the Adventist hospital in NJ performs any elective abortions.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:07, 18 February 2007 (EST)

:: I ''assume'' that they're thinking about situations where the life of the mother is at stake.... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 18:33, 18 February 2007 (EST)

: I agree that there can be conservatives who support abortion. Personally however, as a Christian myself, I believe it is impossible to be a Christian and support abortion at the same time. This would be a major contradiction. Also, I highly doubt that "most" would regard the Seventh-Day-Adventist church as Christian as they add their own ideas to the teachings of Jesus. Just my opinion on the matter. [[User:PhilipB|PhilipB]] 18:13, 18 February 2007 (EST)

:: Is there ''any'' denomination that doesn't "add their own ideas to the teachings of Jesus?"

:: Doesn't the Catholic Church add the opinions of the Pope when he speaks ''ex cathedra.'' Surely Catholics are Christians?

:: And if Protestant denominations don't "add anything to the teachings of Jesus" than why do Baptists say they have "no sacraments," Lutherans say they have two, and Episcopalians seven? Why do Methodists believe in the "Real Presence" of Christ in the Lord's Supper but Presbyterians believe he is only "spiritually" present? Why do some denominations baptize adults and others not? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 18:33, 18 February 2007 (EST)

:::'''Reply:''' It is very true that churches have added onto the teachings of Jesus even though it clearly states in Revelation 22:18-19 that anyone who adds or takes away any words from the Bible will be harshly punished:

:::''"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." Revelation 22:18-19''

:::It is made very clear that God does not want to be edited. But Dpbsmith, I ''do'' believe that there are churches that hold very tightly to the teachings of Jesus and base their faith completely on His Word. So, yes, there are denominations that do not add their own ideas to the Bible.
::: And, though abortion is never ''directly'' called "abortion" in the Bible, Exodus 21: 22-25 refers to God giving his explanations to the Israelites about how to deal with matters of women with child:

:::"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise." Exodus 21: 22-25

:::'''Reply:''' It is funny that you reference the old mosaic law when Jesus clearly gave a new law to take place of the eye for an eye law. Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, not eye for an eye, tooth for tooth.

:::It is very obvious that the life of an unborn child is valued and considered a human life by God. There is another verse, Jeremiah 1:5, that also deals with the value of an unborn child's life, but I am sure that Conservapedia would rather have an article on the Bible than try to be it. :) --[[User:David R|David R]] 20:35, 18 February 2007 (EST)

::: Ok, a number of issues- first, that verse has classically has a very different translation, premature birth actually means miscarriage in most translations (and from my (admittedly minimal knowledge of Hebrew, is more plausibly correct). (Examples of ones which translate as such in English are the KJV ASV,)). The vulgatus in fact used the word "abortivum" to describe what happened. The Hebrew is actually interesting - the phrase is וְיָצְאוּ יְלָדֶיהָ which litterally means "and the child went out" which is interesting because there is a separate verb used generally to mean giving birth. Now the upshot of all of this is important, if this refers to a miscarriage then one must conclude that if anything the Bible does not see the unborn child at the same level as that of a human since the punishment for manslaughter of a normal human is much more severe than just a monetary fine. Thus, if anything, this verse shows that the Bible see a serious distinction between the unborn and the born. And even if you insist on translating this as premature birth then it simply becomes a tort of born individuals. Thus, if anything, this verse undermines pro-life arguments.

::: Jeremiah 1:5 has similar problems. The NAS translation is "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." Again, there are interesting translational issues but they aren't as directly germane. This one simply requires a bit of context. When it is quoted as attempting to support pro-life arguments the last part of the verse is generally not quoted. When you look at the entire verse and the verse right above one thing is very clear, this verse is talking about a single person - Jeremiah. Jeremiah was known to God in womb, Jeremiah was consecrated and appointed as a prophet. This isn't talking about generic babies. Furthermore, one could make the argument that if God consecrated every single unborn baby then there would be no point in telling Jeremiah that he had been consecrated as such and that you can therefore see this verse as possibly arguing against every baby being consecrated (I find this argument very weak, but that's a different matter). The bottom line however is that this verse doesn't support a pro-life stance and if it has anything to say on the matter says the opposite. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 00:09, 19 February 2007 (EST)

Joshua Z, you have twisted the translation badly. A premature birth does not equal a miscarraige. It didn't mean that in Biblical times and it doesn't mean that now. Please go [[http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/read/does_exodus_21_sanction_abortion| here]] for an educated translation and discussion on that specific topic. --[[User:David R|David R]] 10:17, 19 February 2007 (EST)

: I find it interesting that you accuse me of twisitng the translation when the translation I have given you is that of the Vulgatus and the KJV. Also, this is how the verse was classicly intepreted in ancient Israelite law as seen in the talmud (certainly this is the majority view in the talmud, I don't even remember the possiblity of premature birth in this matter coming up- looking this up now) . As to the christian courier article, it is rife with problems. Among other problems, Job and Kings are written far after Exodus and there is a much larger vocabularly. The last verse quoted in the article about Menachem is in fact clearly in context referring to such ripping as a torture or punishment of the female in question. There are a variety of other issues with the article, but I'm not going to go into them in detail. The bottom line is that the KJV agrees with this translation, the Vulgatus agrees with this translation and the ancient Israelite law used this translation. It is at best inaccurate to call such a translation "twisted." (I incidentally presume from the lack of comment that you don't disagree with my analysis of Jeremiah)[[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 20:40, 19 February 2007 (EST)

I dont know how you translated "miscarraige" from the King James Version. It does not contain the word miscarriage. In fact, it says premature birth. The last time I check a premature birth was a premature birth, not a miscarriage. You could say that a miscarriage resulted from a premature birth(verse 23). Nevertheless, the translation provides no miscarriage. Going to the Hebrew translation, the fact that they did have a separate verb for "birth" and "and the child came out" goes to show that the second verb refered to a unorthodox birth. But it is pure speculation to call it a miscarriage. As for why I did not reply to your second paragraph containing your thoughts, it is only because I was focusing more on the first one and happened to forget about the second. Be patient. It is a mistake on your part to simply assume that I have no counter to your "analysis". The verses in Jeremiah imply that Jeremiah was set apart to become a great prophet, not to be the only baby to have life before birth. I admit, after looking over this verse a couple times, that it wasn't the strongest material to back my argument, but it surely does not oppose a "pro-life" stance as you script it to. --[[User:David R|David R]] 23:19, 20 February 2007 (EST)

: It doesn't say miscarriage. It refers to the fruit departing which is a euphemism for miscarriage in other texts in the late 1500s. As to the Jeremiah point, as I said the argument for it being against a pro-life stance is weak and I find that unpersuasive. However, in context it is at best neutral on the matter. (In any event, the fact that the ancient Israelites interpreted it as miscarriage and the Vulgati translate it as abortivum is very hard to get around). [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 13:42, 22 February 2007 (EST)

The Bible and Christianity are clearly incompatible with abortion. First off, abortion is an act of murder. The Bible never once refers to an unborn child as an "unborn fetus." The term "with child" is used, not "with fetus." In Luke 1:36 and 41 Elisabeth's "babe" leaps in her womb, not her "fetus." Job refers to unborn children as infants in Job 3:16.

<blockquote>At two weeks pregnancy, the "fetus" can move alone. By four weeks the child has limbs, muscle tissue, a heart and heartbeat. Ears, eyes, and small hands are visible by the fifth week. The child responds to touch sensations by the sixth or seventh week. At eight weeks, the baby sometimes tries to take a breath when removed from the mother. At twelve weeks, the child will often struggle for life two or three hours when removed from the mother.</blockquote>

:At two weeks from fertilisation, the embryo has not even [http://www.visembryo.com/baby/7.html implanted], indeed, many embryos don't even make it as far as implantation, which happens at about [http://www.visembryo.com/baby/8.html two and a half weeks]. At [http://www.visembryo.com/baby/13.html four weeks] the fetus has no hands, hands don't fully appear until [http://www.visembryo.com/baby/22.html week eight], and the arms are little more than buds[http://www.visembryo.com/baby/13.html buds]. The fetus doesn't practice breathing until [http://www.visembryo.com/baby/12_weeks.html 12] to [http://www.babydiscovery.co.uk/pregnancy-timeline.asp 14] weeks, so I'm not sure how it would try to take a breath at 8 weeks. At twelve weeks, abortions are surgical abortions that do not result in an entire fetus, so the fetus could hardly struggle for life after that. [[User:Smudgepuss|Smudgepuss]] 17:33, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

Abortion encourages sin, just as the Texas HPV vaccine will. It does not "fix" any problems as some people would like to believe, it just makes the problem bigger. If God condoned abortion then he would be contradicting himself. Ecclesiastes 3:14 - "I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him." Abortion is an''' attempt to bring an end to God's work... to make him a liar. [[User:PhilipB|PhilipB]] 09:46, 19 February 2007 (EST)

:: A charming response that doesn't deal with either the matter in Exodus or the matter in Jeremiah. The use of the same word in all those cases is explainable by the simple fact that most ancient cultures didn't have separate words for fetus, embryo and baby (ancient Hebrew and aramaic do not seem to have had separate words, if they did, they are no longer extant). Again, the above verse in Exodus if anything demonstrates that abortion is not murder since the punishment is less than that for murder. The quote you have about the features of a child at an early age has nothing to do with biblical exegesis. Finally, the last paragraph is also irrelevant- whether or not abortion encourages sin is a distinct question from whether abortion is Biblically forbidden or whether it is murder. Finally, you are applying that quote from Ecclesiastes in a highly selective fashion- under that logic since God makes diseases medicine shouldn't be allowed. In fact, that verse is making a very different statement- the end of the verse is not a commandment but a statement of futulity in fighting God's work- anything that God ordains to occur, will occur whether or not humans attempt to interfere. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 09:57, 19 February 2007 (EST)
::: '''Reply''' The fact that they did not have separate words proves that they were considered equal. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 10:51, 19 February 2007 (EST)

:::: '''REPLY''': Exactly right, Tim. Well done. On another topic, can you figure out how to link to my appearance on MSNBC this morning? I'd greatly appreciate that and some visitors to Conservapedia may be interested. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:55, 19 February 2007 (EST)

:::: No, no no. Not at all. The general hebrew vocab was small. See for example the word for holy- kadosh which has about a dozen different meanings and can in one form refer to a prostitute. The total vocab was small. One sees this in other semitic languages also, and without modern medicine and such no one has any need to distinguish that much between whether or not a baby was born. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 20:40, 19 February 2007 (EST)

Wikipedia would never have this talk you know. This is why we are '''Conserv'''apedia --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 18:20, 18 February 2007 (EST)

: Well, that might be related to the fact that Wikipedia doesn't care about anyone's personal religious viewpoints or reading of the bible per among other policies [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research|WP:NOR]]
'''

:The Wikipedia link is broken. I moved Neurocat's comments about abortion here:
Abortion

Repeatedly, you have removed my edits regarding the abortion topic. My edits were intended to balance the strong right-wing slant of the original entry. For example ...

*if abortions do cause health problems, there should be a fair and balanced discussion of what the benefits are of abortion

: '''REPLY:''' There are no benefits. The mother's health is harmed by abortion , as shown by cited studies, and what happens to the child is obvious. If you claim there are benefits, then you have prove your case.
::But an abortion procedure (a legal one at least) is statistically safer than childbirth. Also, if a women has no children, then she does not have the lower risk of breast cancer gained when having a child, but surely she has not increased her risk of cancer, rather she has not decreased it. [[User:Smudgepuss|Smudgepuss]] 17:44, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

*if the pro-choice movement funds the Democrat party, there should be an equal discussion about the funding activities of the pro-life party

: '''REPLY:''' There is nothing comparable in the Republican Party. There is no billion-dollar industry profiting from saving lives from abortion. Again, if you think there is something comparable, then you have to provide proof for your claim. You'll then see it doesn't exist.

*if the page is to say that the "pro-choice" group is not pro-choice about the funding for abortion, then there should also be statements about how the "pro-life" group is not truly pro-life when it comes to providing social support for unwanted children, fighting to outlaw the death penalty, or doing stem cell research to save adult lives.

:'''REPLY:''' Again, your claims are simply untrue. Many pro-lifers are actively engaged in pregnancy crisis centers and adoption. Many oppose the death penalty, but obviously that analogy fails because the death penalty is retribution for a heinous crime. Virtually all pro-lifers support various types of working stem cell therapies to save lives.

However, I see that these statements, while equally factual to the original entry, do not fit in with the personal bias of the administrators. Therefore, I deleted all biased statements from the entry that were not clearly supported with evidence.
-Neurocat

:'''REPLY:''' I'll look again at what you did. You're free to post your claims if you back them up. Most of your claims above, however, cannot be backed up.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 00:09, 21 February 2007 (EST)

It is interesting to note that several times it has been stated that NOTHING good has come of abortion. Freakonomics by Steven Levitt makes a very strong causal link between the introduction of abortion and fall of crime in the US. Perhaps it would be worth a read for some people.--[[User:ChrisF|ChrisF]]

: Hello. I know I might be jumping in a bit late here, but I thought I'd explain what ex-cathedra meant, as someone seemed to be of the impression that the Pope can add things to the Bible, but this is what the Catholic Encyclopedia [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05677a.htm CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Ex Cathedra] defines it as: "Literally 'from the chair', a theological term which signifies authoritative teaching and is more particularly applied to the '''definitions''' given by the Roman pontiff. Originally the name of the seat occupied by a professor or a bishop, cathedra was used later on to denote the magisterium, or teaching authority..." (emphasis added) Anyway, what I think is relevant here is that when the Pope makes an ex-cathedra teaching, he is not just making something new up, he is '''defining''' the Church's stance on the matter. Take, for example, the topic we have here - abortion. On the subject of life beginning at conception John Paul II wrote in [http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae_en.html Evangelium vitae]: "I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium." (I'm not actually sure if this is an ex-cathedra document, but you get the idea). What he is doing here is not adding something to the Bible but clarifying the Church's stance on this, '''in accordance with''' the Bible, for example Luke 1:39-41 "And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost" The Council of Ancyra also said "Concerning women who commit fornication, and destroy that which they have conceived, or who are employed in making drugs for abortion, a former decree excluded them until the hour of death, and to this some have assented. Nevertheless, being desirous to use somewhat greater lenity, we have ordained that they fulfill ten years [of penance], according to the prescribed degrees" (canon 21 [A.D. 314]). The Early Church Fathers at the Council of Ancyra proclaimed these things to be in concurrence with the Bible, and (as far as Catholics believe) that is just what the Pope (with the help of Cardinals, etc.) does nowadays. Anyway, I know that was a rather long explanation, but thank you if you read it all and I hope you now understand a bit better what we believe about ex-cathedra proclamations. Feel free to contact me if you'd like to know more about what the Church says about abortion (although I think most people already know lol) or anything else Catholicism-related. :D --[[User:Eldestport|Eldestport]][[User talk:Eldestport|Talk!]][[Special:Contributions/Eldestport|Work]] 05:41, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

==Additional Information==
I posted some additional information to round out the entry, along with references. This includes a link to a Pro-Life PAC that is against abortion in cases of rape, incest, and medical need, as well as a link to a website that offers information calling the abortion-breast cancer link into some question. Hopefully this provides a richer, more well rounded entry. --[[User:Neurocat|Neurocat]] 10:44, 21 February 2007 (EST)

Perhaps pointing out the fact that the link between abortion and breast cancer is not a causal one. The way in which the link is presented in the article is biased, it portrays abortion as being a cause of breast cancer. It is much better defined as an indicator, for abortion itself does not cause breast cancer.--[[User:ChrisF|ChrisF]]

This article needs serious work. There's one sentence talking about what an abortion is, and BAM! Breast cancer. Why is breast cancer at the top? Is that the most important topic relevant to abortion?

== profitability of abortion ==

It's been reported before that fetuses are sold as a commodity, either for use in Chinese medicine:

http://www.abortiontv.com/Glitch/AbortedBabiesSoldAsHealthFood.htm

or for ghoulish Western research practices:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/10/fetal.tissue/index.html
http://www.healthy.net/scr/news.asp?Id=8247

How is this not something that should be in Conservapedia? This is something that people should be talking about.

==Should the article introduce and define the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice?"==

Regarding [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Abortion&curid=3937&diff=17574&oldid=17566], whether or not the article uses the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice" I think it makes sense to define both in the article. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:45, 1 March 2007 (EST)

One of our rules is conciseness. The above terms are self-evident and not even used much in the article. The sentence is unnecessary for 99.9999% of readers.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:53, 1 March 2007 (EST)

: I'm not sure that's true. That would I presume depend on both what your intended readership is and other issues. (For example, would you be at all aiming for non-native English speakers who don't know much about the English terminology? I always taught to aim to explain to the least knowledgable reader) Furthermore, I think it's important to point out the terms in relation to what the different sides emphasize in regard to the debate. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 02:23, 2 March 2007 (EST)

: As a matter of conciseness, the current article isn't exactly concise (I would think for example that it would make sense to have one section on health risks, not 3. The level of detail there compared to other issues such discussions of the the basies for attitudes towards abortion as well as the political history seems a bit unbalanced. The article doesn't even mention Griswold for exampe.). [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 02:26, 2 March 2007 (EST)

::It's my sentence so let me explain why I put it there. It was not to define the terms, but a) to justify the use of terms with "spin" and b) set ground rules. Both terms are so ''thoroughly'' dishonest that I really detest using either of them and think that a justification for their use is needed. The ground rules for the language used throughout the article should be to use the terms which each side likes to have used (no edit wars between "pro-choice" and "pro-murder" or "pro-life" and "pro-non-adult-life," please).

::I am certain that each side has no trouble seeing the "spin" represented by the ''other'' side's term. They're absolutely wretched and I have to think it would be very helpful if the two factions could bring themselves to call themselves "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion" (where it's understood that "abortion" is short for "the continuing availability of legalized abortion.)

::They may be so familiar as to not to require definition, but they are ''certainly'' not "self-evident." A man from Mars would never guess in a million years what "pro-choice" means, or that a "pro-lifer" can support capital punishment. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 06:12, 2 March 2007 (EST)

:::Pro-lifers cannot support capital punishment; that's an oxymoron. The main force in the fight against abortion is the Catholic church, and they have made it extremely clear that a "culture of life" cannot be consistent with the death penalty; look up some of the references-- [http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/national/deathpenalty/] for example.
[[User:Franklin.jefferson|Franklin.jefferson]] 17:45, 2 March 2007 (EST)

::::*I personally know some people who are indeed a) Roman Catholic, b) against abortion, and c) against the death penalty. I certainly didn't mean to imply that all "pro-lifers" support death penalty. Many do not. But I don't believe that people who self-describe as "pro-life" can be assumed to be against the death penalty, nor do I think that the term is generally understood to include that. I'm willing to be corrected on that if I'm wrong. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 17:58, 2 March 2007 (EST)

::::Due diligence:

::::*Well, for what it's worth: American Heritage Dictionary gives only one meaning, and it's "Advocating full legal protection of human embryos or fetuses, especially by opposing legalized abortion."[http://www.bartleby.com/61/5/P0590500.html]. Merriam-Webster online simply says "antiabortion."[http://209.161.33.50/dictionary/pro-life]. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 18:04, 2 March 2007 (EST)

::::*National Right-to-Life's website, under "issues," includes abortion, euthanasia, Medicare, and human cloning. Capital punishment is apparently not considered by them to be a right-to-life issue. Their [http://www.nrlc.org/Missionstatement.htm mission statement] says specifically "The Committee does not have a position on issues such as contraception, sex education, capital punishment, and national defense." Their factsheet on the [http://www.nrlc.org/Federal/ICPA/ICPAfactsheet.html Innocent Child Protection Act] says "This bill does ''not'' reflect any point of view on the desirability or appropriateness of imposing capital punishment on persons convicted of premeditated murder or other grave crimes."

::::I actually think that particular website is avoiding the issue, and I suspect it's because there's a wide spectrum of opinion on capital punishment within the "pro-life" community. I happen to agree with you that pro-life ''should'' imply opposition to capital punishment, but I don't think it does. That's exactly why I think it's a dishonest term. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 18:13, 2 March 2007 (EST)

:'''REPLY''' Thanks, Dpbsmith, for moving this discussion over here, and I apologize for only getting back to everyone until now. The abortion article never references "pro-choice", and its passing references to "pro-life" near the end can be changed. In fact, I'll remove them now for you.

: Most people in the abortion movement on both sides reject any analogy between abortion and the death penalty. The same could be said for abortion and war. The issues are very, very different. Criminal punishment is based on retribution and deterrence. Those are not factors in abortion.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:38, 2 March 2007 (EST)

==Portugal==
I'm not sure that the Portuguese still make abortion illegal. I heard recently that they had a referendum on the issue and they voted to legalize, but the voter turnout was too low for it to count. Last I heard, the ruling party had stated that they were going to enforce the ruling, but I'd assume there would be some challenges from the opposition, so it's definitely worth following. Either way, a factcheck needs to be done on the first bit.--[[User:John|John]] 19:09, 5 March 2007 (EST)

== Article weight ==

There seem to be issues of weight- almost three quarters of the article as it currently stands deals with potential health complications of abortion, while there is almost no details of the history of abortion or abortion outside the US. I'm a bit puzzled that this level of detail is in here but a single sentence detailing the difference between "pro-life" and "pro-choice" is removed out of concerns of conciseness. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:26, 5 March 2007 (EST)

Moreover, this article tells nothing about the types of abortions or the procedures used. Why isn't that the article on abortion has no information actually about abortions? --[[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 15:20, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

==Bible==
the Abortion article does not mention that Abortion is inconsistent with the 6th commandment "You shall not murder". The Bible, being the word of God, is a infallible moral guide as to the behaviour that God wants us to uphold. Regardless of the (very strong) scientific arguments against abortion the strongest argument (IMHO) against is the 6th commandment. I apppreciate your views.--[[User:AustinM|AustinM]] 11:48, 8 March 2007 (EST)

The bible proposes no scientific arguments at all against abortion. A commandment is merely a command issue by a higher power, there is no scientific proof shown in it at all. Religion simply puts forward a moral argument. --[[User:JamesLipton|JamesLipton]] 18:19, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

The Bible contains very little proven fact, either. --[[User:Brooker|Brooker]]

== Seriously, please add this to the article ==

<div style="width: 70%; margin: 0 15% 1em 15%; text-align: center; background-color: #DEE6ED; padding: 0.5em; border: solid 1px #6699CC;">
This article has been identified as not maintaining a neutral point of view. You can and are encouraged to make this article better by contributing. This article may contain opinions, a one-sided bias, or information without proper citation that could be considered opinion. Please be encouraged to edit this article by removing opinions, presenting multiple points of view, and/or adding citations. Please remember to abide by [[The Conservapedia Commandments]].
</div>
<includeonly>[[Category:Articles needing major improvement]]</includeonly>

*Support. I'm Catholic and absolutely against abortion, but I think the article is anything but neutral. I appreciate that this is a conservative website but that doesn't mean that we have to push our agenda and beliefs right from the beginning of the article

==Proposed new section==
While some aspects of the Wikipedia articles on abortion are quite confronting, the fact that this article only devotes a single sentence to a definition is a bit surprising. The current article doesn't actually say anything about the "rightness" of abortion, only that it causes health problems later, and used to be illegal.

Since the article is protected from editing, I propose a new section here --[[User:Scott|Scott]] 00:56, 12 March 2007 (EDT)
===Alternatives to abortion===
Many people oppose the use of abortion in any or all cases where it might be considered by other people.

The obvious way to avoid an abortion is for the woman not to get [[pregnancy|pregnant]] in the first place. This can best be achieved by abstinence from [[sex]] before [[marriage]]. If a woman does have sex but does not wish to risk becoming pregnant, the couple should use [[contraception]] to reduce the likelihood of pregnancy.

Once a woman has become pregnant, the only alternative to abortion is to allow the pregnancy to proceed to a live birth. If the parents are unable or do not wish to bring up the child, it can be offered for [[adoption]]. Otherwise one or both parents will look after the child in a [[family]] until it is old enough to move out of home on his or her own.

:*Hmm. When I was at Law school my tutor said that the only 100% way to not get pregnant was abstinence (it was a seminar on the Abortion Act). I don't understand why that is such a difficult concept for people to grasp these days. --[[User:Eldestport|Eldestport]][[User talk:Eldestport|Talk!]][[Special:Contributions/Eldestport|Work]] 05:51, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

:: This argument tends to fall apart for victims of sexual abuse and rape. Of late, I've also seen fringe left-wingers using images of the Virgin Mary with the subtitle "Abstinence doesn't always work" as a joke. [[User:Zondergard|Zondergard]]

:::Which argument falls apart? All of the above is true even if the sex was involuntary. I'm sure the trauma of the act is magnified by the effects, but if a woman, her friends or relatives believe "abortion is murder", then it doesn't change based on how the conception occurred. I just hope and pray that nobody I know and love is ever in that situation. --[[User:Scott|Scott]] 08:55, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:::Apparently this proposed paragraph is not acceptable for the article in its present state as it is not suitably referenced. I'm not quite sure specifically which sentences need reference, but I'm finding it surprisingly difficult to find reliable references on the internet that you don't need an abortion if you don't have sex! Even any pages I can find about alternatives look more biased and pushy than the paragraph above that needs to referenced to be acceptable. [[User:Eldestport|Eldestport]], are you able to reference it from your law book? --[[User:Scott|Scott]] 00:08, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

==danger of life and abortion needs discussion
Poland, Portugal and Irland permit abortions in cases where the life of the mother is in danger. A discussion of this topic is deerly needed. -- SchiFra.

==Add Category:Abortion==
Since the page is edit blocked, please add '''Category:Abortion''' [[User:Crocoite|Crocoite]][[User Talk:Crocoite|talk]] 14:47, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

==Definition of abortion==
According to the linked definition part 1 (and these [http://www2.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/mwmednlm?book=Medical&va=abortion online] [http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?abortion medical dictionaries]), the term abortion relates to the termination of pregnancy, whether planned (induced abortion) or unplanned (spontaneous abortion ak miscarriage). As the everyday useage and the medical terminology are conflicting, I think that this should be clarified and the page possibly split. [[User:Smudgepuss|Smudgepuss]] 16:57, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

==This article violates the Third Commandment of Conservapedia==
Abortion is clearly not family-friendly. If [[Sex]] isn't allowed, this article has to go. --[[User:ReaganLives|ReaganLives]] 20:49, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

anything else you want to censor? --[[User:JamesLipton|JamesLipton]] 16:27, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

As other posters have said, the very first line of this article contains a startling inaccuracy. Abortion is the purely medical term for the ending of a pregnancy before the foetus can have independent life. Most abortions are caused by Nature, or depending on your personal beliefs, God. Surprisingly, humans have great difficulty getting pregnant, compared to most other mammals, and just as much problems staying pregnant - at least a third, and up to one half of all conceptions which implant, naturally abort before term, although many of these before the mother realises she is pregnant. On a note not wholly related to abortion, the joining of a human egg and sperm is not the begining of a potential human life, it is the begining of TWO or THREE potential human beings, even under natural conditions. It just so happens that identical twins and triplets are even more prone to spontaneous abortion than their single brothers and sisters. KT

== Reply to the above ==

The user Scott sent me over here to respond to the above comments, but I didn't find anything here to add to the content page. The content page is a high-quality, thoroughly sourced description of information often censored elsewhere (e.g., Wikipedia omits much of this information). Any additions would have to be of the same quality and cited support.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:59, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

== Abortion and Breast Cancer==

In the first sentence of that article section, it states that studies show abortion causes breast cancer, supported by 16/17 statistically significant cases. In a statistical sense, the word "cause" or "causation" is to be avoided. Nothing can ever be proved to cause another thing. Rather, the sentence should state "there is a high correlation evidenced by the studies." Statistics class has ground this principle into me, and so i feel the need to point it out. I would change it myself, but this appears to be another one of those articles that needs "Big Brother" to ensure conservative bias.--[[User:Fpresjh|Fpresjh]] 18:51, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

To balance the assertions about abortion and breast cancer in this article, it ought to be shown that many factors affect breast cancer rates - for example diet: http://unisci.com/stories/20021/0104023.htm

and racial grouping: http://www.womenshealthnetwork.org/advocacy/wocbreastca/natam.htm

Life is full of risks. Your risk of dying of breast cancer is about the same as your risk from radon by living in Cornwall: http://www.cplusc.co.uk/risks.html (Can't say I've noticed women fleeing Cornwall in droves...)

A higher risk factor for breast cancer than abortion, research published today reveals, is the eating of red meat. See: Red meat ‘raises risks of breast cancer’ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2007/04/04/nmeat04.xml

Breastfeeding your baby greatly reduces your risk of breast cancer. Having large numbers of children and breastfeeding them all reduces the risk of breast cancer:
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2570 http://society.guardian.co.uk/cancer/story/0,8150,757869,00.html

Obesity increases the risk of breast cancer: http://society.guardian.co.uk/cancer/story/0,,686105,00.html

The National Breast Cancer Coalition does not endorse the view that induced abortions increase the risk of breast cancer - one would have thought this kind of organisation would be the first to look at the evidence that exists, since there is no profit in abortion for them. Nor do the American Cancer Society and the World Health Organisation endorse this view.

Ireland, where abortion is illegal, has one of the highest rates of breast cancer in the EU and the trend for incidence at younger ages (where abortion rates are usually highest) is downwards:
http://www.actuaries.org.uk/files/pdf/library/proceedings/health2001/Jeffery.pdf

It's dishonest to write an article that greatly overstates the connection between abortion and breast cancer and doesn't put it in the context of all the other things women do that increase or decrease their risk. Getting in a car any day of the week puts you at infinitely higher risk of death than having an abortion: http://www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/statistics/stats-usa.htm

There are legitimate arguments against abortion, but this kind of manipulative shroud-waving isn't among them. [[User:Britinme|Britinme]] 11:19 4 April 2007 (EDT)

According to Reuters, the largest study ever done on the abortion/cancer link has come to the conclusion that they are not correlated. According to the article, this is going to "fit" with the U.S. National Cancer Institute. Link: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N23311428.htm --[[User:TempestHead|TempestHead]] 16:58, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

== Historical view of abortion ==

Abortion has been an issue for a long while, though historians and anthropologists rarely write about it. Yet, if abortion became illegal in every country on Earth, with the most severe, harshest penalties imaginable, abortions would still happen. Women who really didn't want to carry to term would find a way. Medically trained people would perform black market sorts of abortions here and there. It is a human issue, an emotional issue. Our grandmothers knew this and their grandmothers. Today's modern medicine allows safe (for the mother) abortion in most cases. Today's law proposes that the decision might not reside in the realm of the mother, but could be mandated, to the benefit of society. Let us not fool ourselves, abortion might be illegal but abortion happens anyway. Who can legally try a woman for falling down stairs or falling against the edge of a table? The article does not, at this time, confront the real reasons why abortion is an issue (my opinion). [[User:Terryeo|Terryeo]] 13:32, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

To add to the above, in Thailand, procuring an illegal abortion is subject to the death penalty. Yet the midwives there are the ones mothers turn to for this service, the same people they turn to to deliver their babies safely. And much as the the ultra right may hate the idea, midwives throughout the ages have always carried out this function, unknown to (or ignored by) males. Even with legal terminations, girls still go to their mothers, not to their fathers, and there is many a Pro-lifer who has no idea what his mother's, wife's, sisters' and daughters' reproductive history is. KT

: Well, fine, burglary and drugs and prostitution and everything else one can imagine will always exist too, no matter how harsh the penalties. Here in the U.S. there is an abortion industry that owns one of the two major political parties (the Democrats), and most women who have an abortion have no idea that they are increasing their risk of breast cancer and future premature birth. The abortion industry does everything it can to prevent that information reaching their potential customers. The tobacco industry did the same thing in the 1940s and 1950s and 1960s. The tobacco industry even got the American Medical Association (AMA) to help it cover up how smoking causes cancer. History repeats itself with abortion.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:45, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

It's anything but an industry in UK, here Termination of Pregnancy (as you describe abortion) is carried out mainly by the National Health Service. Hospitals in our country are under financial constraints (private insurance does not pay for it), yet still publically funded doctors perform these procedures for the benefit of the woman concerned, and no other reason. They do NOT receive financial reward, and it is the taxpayer who pays. And the British taxpayer is happy to pay for this.

: I'm not an expert on the UK by any means, but I'm confident physicians perform the operation for payment, not for charity. In the U.S., the operation has little risk of malpractice, is done outside of hospitals and in profitable clinics, and often the physicians do abortions after they have been excluded from their own specialty and/or from hospitals.

: Your claim that the British taxpayer "is happy to pay for this" strikes me as incredulous also. The British taxpayer is ''forced'' to pay for this. If the Brits were "happy to pay for this" then taxes wouldn't be needed for it, and it could be privately funded!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:45, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
::Aschlafly - I think you aren't clear about how the NHS works. It isn't funded by taxation. It's funded by National Insurance, which all working people pay in the same way as Americans pay Social Security, and it covers the same range of things as Social Security except that it covers health care as well. Because of inadequacies in the NHS, some people choose to pay privately for a termination of pregnancy, but the law in the UK states that two doctors have to agree that there are satisfactory grounds for it. The majority of UK opinion supports the availability of legal abortion on the NHS, though there are a number of people who would prefer to see the upper time limit (currently 24 weeks) brought down to 20-22 weeks. [[User:Britinme|Britinme]]

You may also like to consider that the majority of women who have terminations (abortions) either already have families, or go on to have families. No woman ever takes this decision lightly, and many women have this procedure to safeguard their real family (people who already exist). KT

: Unfortunately those women who do have future children (and many can't, by the way) have greatly increased their chance of premature birth, and the severe injuries that causes. Those women should be told that, just as informed consent is required for any other operation. Surely you don't think that the women considering an abortion should not be told?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:45, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

If abortions 'causes' breast cancer, is it terminations of pregnancy 'cause' breast cancer, or/and miscarriages (spontaneous abortion)'cause' breast cancer. If spontaneous abortion causes breast cancer, the solution is to never get pregnant, and avoid the 50% risk of natural abortion which comes with every pregnancy. Would that suit Mr/Ms Aschafly; or would this defy the Biblical injunction to go forth and mulitply? KT

==Portugal==
Could someone remove Portugal from the countries that abortion is illegal in? They voted for it to become legal a few days ago.
--[[User:Daerean|Daerean]] 17:27, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

: I thought the vote failed because of low turnout. In other words, the law did not change.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:37, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

::The PM sent a bill allowing abortion in Portugal that passed in parliament on the 15 March 2007, Accoring to the AP "The bill is now subject to presidential ratification in the next 20 days but becomes law only after published, a process that could take several months." [http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/03/09/portugal.abortion.ap/index.html] So yes, it's still illegal as of today. --[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 17:51, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

:::A severe health risk for the mother has always been an accepted medical reason for abortion in Portugal.

This is a genuine query to every poster on this page. Somewhere in the Old Testement, I think Dueteronomy, there is an edict on how long a woman remains unclean after abortion/miscarriage, and says something like a woman is unclean for 60 days after aborting a male, but only 30 days after aborting a female. Can anyone please point out the Bilical reference, refresh my memory. Many thanks KT

== Blocked? ==

So much for a free encyclopedia, when all the important articles are blocked. Well done. [[User:Theonlyedge|Theonlyedge]] 20:46, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

:Not ''all'' the important articles - just the ones where a conservative view might differ significantly from that "liberal" alternative, Wikipedia. --[[User:Scott|Scott]] 10:50, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

== death rate ==

The first paragraph of the "Other health effects" section is
:''A study published in the Southern Medical Journal observed that there are higher death rates association with women who have abortion, and that these higher death rates persist over time and across socioeconomic boundaries.''
Apart from "association" where it presumably should say "associated", I find it surprising that the death rate of women who have had abortions is higher than in women who haven't, given that the death rate amongst women who have not had abortions is effectively 100%! That is, ''all'' women who have not had abortions die eventually, but proportionately more women who ''have'' had abortions die? "110% of women who had abortions die" would be a good headline. --[[User:Scott|Scott]] 09:06, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

I was hoping i could edit the article to make it less biased and more factual. I want this site to be taken seriously, and it's articles like this one that destroy it's credibility. If allowed to edit this article, i would not take it from one bias to another, i would simply remove some of the opinion and make it purely factual.--[[User:Sersabian|Sersabian]] 17:52, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

== Requested edits ==

* Could this article be added to [[[[:Category:Abortion]]| ]]? Thanks. --[[User:Interiot|Interiot]] 03:12, 1 April 2007 (EDT)
:* Service with a smile. Thanks! --[[User:Interiot|Interiot]] 03:16, 1 April 2007 (EDT)
::*<nowiki>:</nowiki>D There's your smile! --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 03:17, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

== Billion Dollar Industry ==

There is a footnote for the "abortion is now a billion dollar industry" factlet here: [http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/09/fetal.tissue/index.html]. A very quick search of the page yields no mention of the words "billion" "dollar" or "industry" and a more thorough search discovers that the article is, in fact, dealing with a 2000 congressional hearing over the illegal sale of fetal tissue. I'm sure this was just an oversight... could a source be provided for the billion dollar indutry fact? [[User:Myk|Myk]] 06:10, 1 April 2007 (EDT)
:What, no one sysop has this article on their watchlist? [[User:Myk|Myk]] 14:20, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

== Scientific/Medical background needed ==

This article on abortion either needs the medical background behind abortion (reasons for abortions and methods of abortion) and reasons why abortion can be beneficial added or its title changed to 'Reasons Why Abortion is Wrong'. This is another biased article that is lacking in facts about the topic itself. --[[User:Tomt|TomT]] 15:51, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

== Articles I would like to see written at Conservapedia ==

'''ABORTION RELATED ARTICLES:'''

*[[Abortion alternatives]]
*[[Abortion procedures]]
*[[Culture of life]]
*[[Dilatation and curettage abortion]]
*[[Dilatation and Evacuation abortion]]
*[[National Right to Life Committee]]
*[[Prostaglandin Abortion]]
*[[Partial birth abortion]]
*[[Right to life]]
*[[Right to life books]]
*[[Right to life movement]]
*[[Right to life leaders]]
*[[Saline abortion]]
*[[Suction abortion]]
*[[Sanctity of life]]
*[[Silent scream]]

[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 18:07, 9 April 2007 (EDT)conservative

== American Cancer Society states abortions do NOT cause breast cancer ==

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_6x_Can_Having_an_Abortion_Cause_or_Contribute_to_Breast_Cancer.asp?sitearea=

You all lose. Abortions aren't bad. Get over it.[[User:AtheistKathryn|AtheistKathryn]] 00:41, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

: Get serious. The American Medical Association used to defend smoking too. That is because it is easy for an industry to influence the handful of people who run these organizations at any given time.

: If you're going to support abortion, at least support giving the mothers information so that they can make an informed decision.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 00:57, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

So once an agency, it's always wrong, following Conservative's line of logic @ [[Evolution]] - "science was wrong once, therefore it's always suspect"? Abortion clinics are not run by corporations that funnel money to the AMA like Philip-Morris did. You get serious, Andy.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 01:28, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

::Giving the mothers the correct information is indeed the right thing to do. Which is why to claim that 16/17 studies show a link is either misinformed or untruthful. I don't know where that claim came from, but if you search yourself you'd find a lot more than 16 studies showing no statistically significant link. To make it a little easier I've listed 24 of them on my talk page. Have you taken a look? [[User:Murray|Murray]] 11:34, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Murray, they'll argue that all contrary sources are "liberal biased." Facts don't matter to these people.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 11:37, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

::Ames, I have no doubt that you're right. Just hoping that some people who read the article might end up here on the talk page and realize that that article is basically one big lie. Or maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment, so I'll keep tilting away! :) [[User:Murray|Murray]] 11:47, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Perhaps a link to the new breast cancer article might be added to this section? --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 11:44, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

::Murray, I admire your persistence. I hope that you change at least one mind; that'll make it worth it.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 12:01, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

:::Thanks - and right back at you. [[User:Murray|Murray]] 13:11, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

==Listen up==

Ok, folks, there are many reasons to be against abortion, almost all of them moral. I am pretty liberal but I have some problems with it myself. HOWEVER, adding specious medical claims does not help the case. ''At this point'' there is '''no''' credible evidence linking abortion to any malignancies. Move on, discuss the real reasons to oppose abortion.--[[User:palmd001|PalMD]][[User_talk:palmd001|talk]] 11:48, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
And by the way, Im working on the Breast cancer article.

:Was just thinking about the "16 out of 17 statistically significant studies" thing. Aschafly, I initially interpreted that as you claiming that most studies that have looked at the relationship have found that abortion is a risk factor. But now it occurs to me that it likely actually means that there are 16 studies finding that it is a significant risk factor, 1 finding that it's a significant protective factor, and some unlisted number finding no significant relationship. Without knowing the number finding no relationship, it's completely meaningless. As I posted above, there are at least 24 studies in that category, and my search was not that comprehensive. It's nonsensical to claim that when less than half of the studies find a relationship that it definitely exists, and suggests misunderstanding of statistical significance. [[User:Murray|Murray]] 13:16, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Quite astute, young grasshopper. Given all the other reasons to oppose abortion, there is no good reason to just make stuff up.--[[User:palmd001|PalMD]][[User_talk:palmd001|talk]] 13:37, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

=Bizarre fixation on abortion=

I'm wondering how Schlafly's slightly freaky obsession with abortion (see eg that the most notable feature of [[Wisconsin]] is its abortion statistics) squares with the not-in-front-of-the-kids squeamishness which pervades other articles of a [[sexual intercourse|reproductive]] or genital-related nature. Are home-schooled children allowed to know about abortion without knowing how a woman gets into the situation of being able to have an abortion? [[User:Chrysogonus|Chrysogonus]] 15:09, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

See [[Talk:Breast cancer]]. That may help answer your question.--[[User:palmd001|PalMD]][[User_talk:palmd001|talk]] 15:45, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

== Confused ==

Please see [[talk:Abortion alternatives]] to see why I am confused. --[[User:Scott|Scott]] 22:35, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

== But what about the benefits of abortion? ==

This article neglects to mention the benefits of abortion, for example:
*Saving the mother's life
*Protecting the mother's physical and mental health
*Preventing a severely disabled child being born into a world where it would just suffer
I know that these points can be debated and there are others that could be added. Just remember that debate does not belong in the article! --[[User:Tomt|TomT]] 16:53, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Net Benefit

2007-03-15T21:35:05Z

TempestHead:

Total profits minus total expenses.

{{stub2}}

[[Category:Economics]]

Conservapedia:Abuse

2007-03-15T21:29:54Z

TempestHead: /* Current Alerts */

<center><big>''Justice never sleeps''</big></center>
{|
|This is where you can report abuse of editing privileges. Please make notes short and concise. Crossed out notes have been dealt with.
|Archives
[[/archive1|1]]
|}

I am reporting [[user: Conservative]] He was involved in a dispute with AmesG and then unilaterally decided to ban him for a week, using a power he possessed and AmesG does not. That is a blatant abuse of SysOp authority - the proper course of action would have been to bring in another SysOp as a neutral third party to decide the matter. I am asking that AmesG be re-instated and Conservative be given a warning for his abuse of authority. This kind of ham-handed banning will give this site a bad reputation that will be hard to shake.--[[User:Dave3172|Dave3172]] 16:43, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

*[[Eric Mukherjee]]. Suspect harmless undergraduate prankster hi-jinks. No sources provided. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 11:43, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
:'''(removed names - these people may not be involved. Unfair to publically name and shame them if they are not)'''--[[User:AustinM|AustinM]] 12:10, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
[[user: JC]] is a suspected vandal. Could some one revert his edits I have done some but I don't thave time right now to search through everything.

===Christianity===
The page has been blocked to prevent editing, which I would normally commend had the content been accurate, except that the existing definition of Christianity is a weak rendition of the actual Biblical revelation. It should not be defined by a Harris poll! If you are to be any better than Wikipedia, you must want truth to be objectively stated. For something as important as one's eternal relationship with God Himself, the information better be accurate!

In Wikipedia, when Christians try to edit, say to some cult's page, the cult members merely come and erase it and edit it out. Truth doesn't matter to the site, and they allow the false claims to continue. That should be different here! Truth is objective, and can be known by anyone, believer or unbeliever in Christianity. Facts are still facts. But we can only write articles to the level of our knowledge. Whoever wrote, wrote what he could, but it can be improved, and should be allowed to be improved.

I would suggest a respected editorial Board for Christian issues. All Christian denominations surprisingly agree on the basics such as are in the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds of the Church. There is one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit; Jesus is fully God and flly man; He died and rose physically from the dead; He offers salvation solely on account of His grace, His works on our behalf, as our Substitute, taking the wrath of God due us. God calls us to repent and believe, and that faith is a "gift, that no man may boast."(Eph.2:8,9). Our salvation is because of the works of Christ alone, and we have this knowledge from inspired Scripture alone, etc.

All three major branches of Christianity, Protestantism, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy would agree that Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian denominations, but rather non-Christian cults or religions. But in order to show the truth of various claims, there must be accuracy in reporting the facts -- objectivity. As it is right now, the definition of Christianity is far too limited.

Who do we talk to in order to submit changes for its editing?
Thank you,

PD Popejoy

:''All three major branches of Christianity, Protestantism, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy would agree that Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian denominations, but rather non-Christian cults or religions.''
:They, on the other hand would disagree. Are we going with [[Truth By Headcount]], now? If so, the Christians were Wrong(tm) back when the Roman Empire was using them for lion chow. --[[User:Scrap|Scrap]] 06:33, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

------------------

I responded on your talk page. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 02:15, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

=Current Alerts=
[[Skeeter]] for vandalism of [[Christianity]] -- [[User:TempestHead|TempestHead]]

Donej for his "emo" article --[[User:TempestHead|TempestHead]]

If someone could ban [[Fuckyourself]], for obvious reasons.
:Banned [[User:Geo.plrd|Geo.]] 01:28, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Look at [[Examples of Bias in Conservapedia]]. Nuff said. --[[User:Splark|Splark]] 02:06, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
:Been there, deleted that, got the hat. [[User:Geo.plrd|Geo.]] 02:09, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
::Somebody ban the kid, please. --[[User:Splark|Splark]] 02:14, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
:::I'm no kid, I'm simply telling you what you need to change before this site can be accurate. Everything.
----

===Liebniz===
I am asking that Leibniz be warned, if not temporarily banned, for repeatedly interjecting argumentative opinion into articles.--[[User:Dave3172|Dave3172]] 17:04, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

===Creationism===

[[Creationism]]

Evolutionist JoshuaZ has arbitrarily erased the correct definition of Creationism two times now.

Issue #1:

I think it is logical and plain common sense that an evolutionist should have no say in defining his scientific rival because said rendering is bound to be riddled with bias and error.

Issue #2:

At any rate, I ask that my rendering of Creationism be reviewed by Administration to be the correct rendering and that JoshuaZ be informed of the ruling if in my favor.

''Proposed Rendering''

"Creationism is the belief that physical reality plainly reflects the work of invisible Divine power (Romans 1:20) and original causation of matter and life was by supernatural agency (Genesis 1:1; chapters 1 and 2). Universally, Creationism is the belief that a Creator is responsible for producing reality (general revelation) and that this revelation is the primary way of deducing the existence of said Deity. Based on observation, Creationism asserts scientific evidence is better explained when a Creator is presupposed to have created reality."

[[User:Ray Martinez|Ray Martinez]] 14:21, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

----

=Finished=

==Conservative as an Admin==
Giving [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] admin status, and protecting articles like [[Young Earth Creationism]], has resulted in absolutely abominable, biased, unrepresentative articles. Someone should look into this; possibly an unbiased admin?--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 17:04, 14 March 2007 (EDT)
:You would have to go higher up the ladder since an Admin would have equal authority as me. [[User:Aschlafly]], who has authority over the Admins, has been working with me regarding a very similar article [[Theory of Evolution]] and he has had no complaints about the article. I don't think your complaints here are going to go very far. Here is what user Aschlafly has said about the Theory of Evolution article: "By the way, Theory of Evolution ranks number 3 in our most-visited pages, after the Main Page and Bias in Wikipedia. Well done!--Aschlafly 00:17, 27 February 2007 (EST)"[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Conservative] [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 23:06, 14 March 2007 (EDT)conservative

Conservative, could you give us your reasons as to why the page is still protected? Will it be opened again to edits? --[[User:Dave3172|Dave3172]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (EDT)
:I believe that [[User:Aschlafly]] should make the decision whether to unlock the page. However, should the page be unlocked and the direction the article takes be changed (pro-evolution view interjecting), I think it should be re-protected given [[User:Aschlafly]] previously mentioned endorsement of the page. Also, Aschlafly has called this encyclopedia Conservapedia and the creationist position is certainly a truly conservative view. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 23:23, 14 March 2007 (EDT)conservative

::I'll throw in my $0.02: From what experience I have working with Conservative and reviewing his edits, he is by and large a respectful and talented editor. Of course he has strong political and religious beliefs; nobody doesn't. But he definitely pulls his weight, and causes more good than harm. I'm not saying that all of his edits are up to chalk, but they all can be welded into shape. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 23:29, 14 March 2007 (EDT)
:::Hojimachong, thank you for your kind words. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 23:31, 14 March 2007 (EDT)conservative
::::My only grievances are the two articles listed, but I believe my fears have already been addressed. Apparently the goal of this site is not a Neutral POV, but an insular pro-fundamentalist Christian regime, which Conservative is actively following. As much as I decry that goal, you are acting within it.--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 01:11, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
:::::I agree with AmesG. While this is a conservative encyclopedia, there are many conservatives who are evolutionists. I am personally an Old Earth creationist, but I don't believe that the other side's view should be censored, especially when many of my respected conservative friends' beliefs clash directly with mine. --[[User:Splark|Splark]] 02:16, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
:::::: Note that AmeG has now been blocked by Conservative. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 16:41, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Christianity

2007-03-15T21:28:38Z

TempestHead: reverted vandalism

'''Christianity''' is a [[religion]] that follows the teachings of [[Jesus|Jesus Christ]], as described in the books of the [[New Testament]]. It is currently the world's largest religion, with over two billion members. Some forms of Christianity posits that anyone who does not accept Jesus Christ as their personal lord an savior will end up in hell. Other forms say that [[Jesus|Jesus Christ]] is the ultimate judge of who goes to Heaven or Hell.<ref>http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/second-coming-of-christ.htm</ref>

== Beliefs ==
Christians believe that [[Jesus|Jesus Christ]] died for their sins and rose from the dead three days after dying. Because of this Christians believe that they must be "born again" spiritually by confessing their sins, taking [[Jesus|Jesus Christ]] as their personal lord and savior, and trying not to sin again.

Not all Christians and Christian denominations share the same set of beliefs. According to an online Harris poll from 2003 <ref>http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=359</ref> 99% of all American Christians believe in God, 96% in the resurrection of [[Jesus|Jesus Christ]], 93% in [[Heaven| Heaven]], 93% in the [[Virgin Birth|virgin birth]], 92% in survival of the soul after death, 82% in [[Hell|Hell]], 50% in [[Ghosts|ghosts]], 27% in [[Astrology|Astrology]] and 21% in [[Reincarnation|reincarnation]]. Note, that the latter two beliefs are in opposition to the religous dogma of many Christian [[Christian denominations|denominations]].

== Controversy ==
Some Christians, mostly [[fundamentalist Christians]], believe that [[abortion]], [[homosexuality]], [[premarital sex]], and the [[theory of evolution]] are morally wrong. Prominent exponents of secular humanism, but also moderate Christians, tend to characterize the fundamentalists' stance on sexual morality, gender equality, and the teaching of evolution as intractable, prejudicial and sometimes even as immoral. This has caused political problems, given the significant influence of fundamentalist Christians. It should be noted that fundamentalist Christians are a small, but rapidly growing minority.

== See also ==

*[[Catholic Church]] (the original Christian Church)
*[[Roman Catholic Church]] (Western branch of the Catholic Church)
*[[Orthodox Church]] (Eastern branch of the Catholic Church)
*[[Christian apologetics]] (Defenses of Christianity)
*[[Conservative Christianity]]
*[[fundamentalist Christians]]
*[[Liberal Christianity]]
*[[Judaism]]
*[[Islam]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Religion]]

Harold Godwinson

2007-03-15T21:27:05Z

TempestHead:

'''Harold Godwinson''' was the last [[Anglo-Saxon]] King of [[England]]. He succeeded to the English throne on January 5, 1066, after the death of [[Edward the Confessor]]. He defeated an invasion by the [[Denmark|Danish]] King [[Harald Hardrada]] on September 25, but died fighting [[William the Conquerer]] at the [[Battle of Hastings]] on October 13.

{{stub2}}

[[Category:Biographies]]

Virginia

2007-03-15T21:21:47Z

TempestHead:

{{stub2}}

'''Virginia''' was one of the first [[colony|colonies]] in [[North America]] in the 1600s and became a state of the [[United States of America]] in 1788.

==History==
Before Europeans arrived, there were three main groups of [[American Indians]] living in the area now covered by Virginia. These were the [[Algonquian]], [[Iroquoian]] (including [[Cherokee]], [[Meherrin]] and [[Nottoway]]) and the [[Siouan]] Indians.<ref>http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/education/projects/webunits/vahistory/tribes.html accessed 10 March 2007</ref>

Spanish explorers visited parts of what is now Virginia in 1560 and again in 1570 when [[Jesuit]] missionaries attempted to set up a mission. Within a year, instead of converting the Indians to Christianity, they had been killed by the Indians.<ref>''[http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20030830.html Spanish Martyrs for Virginia]'' by Matthew M. Anger (30 August 2003), accessed 10 March 2007</ref>

Sir [[Walter Raleigh]] led an English exploration party in 1584. A group of men from England invested in a Joint Stock Company called "The Virginia Company" to find gold and other treasures. The company was granted lands in 1606 from what is now [[North Carolina]] to [[New York]], all under the name of "Virginia" after [[Queen Elizabeth I]] (known as the "Virgin Queen" as she never married). It established the first permanent settlement for England known as [[Jamestown]].<ref>[http://www.historyisfun.org/jamestown/jamestown.cfm Jamestown Settlement], accessed 10 March 2007</ref>

Virginia declared independence from Britain in 1776 and became one of the original thirteen states of the United States.

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:US state]]

William Crookes

2007-03-15T21:20:45Z

TempestHead:

William Crookes was an English chemist who lived during the 1800s. He is famous for the discoveries he made using the [[Crookes tube]].

{{stub2}}

The Daily Show

2007-03-15T21:19:51Z

TempestHead: removed POV

The Daily Show is an [[infotainment]] program that airs on Comedy Central. It has won multiple awards, and is known for its decidedly liberal tone.{{fact}}

== Early Years ==
The show was originally hosted by Craig Kilborn, but in 1998 Jon Stewart replaced Kilborn.

== Jon Stewart on The Daily Show ==
Stewart is best known as the host of Comedy Central's [[The Daily Show]]. He often attacks the President and the war in [[Iraq]]. Stewart often distorts video clips, sound bites, and news stories in order to make [[Republicans]] look silly, and [[Democrats]] look good.{{fact}}

== Correspondents ==

The correspondents on the show are usually [[liberal]], and do different "news stories".{{fact}} These segments are usually aimed at making [[conservative]] positions (such as gun rights, [[pro-life]], or [[Christianity]]) seem foolish. One segment in particular, "This Week In God" directly mocks [[Christian]] values, and the true living [[God]].{{fact}}

Talk:Scientific law

2007-03-15T21:16:35Z

TempestHead:

I question the validity of this article, since there really is no such thing as scientific law. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 17:15, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

:There are plenty of things that are considered scientific law by a very large majority. For example, the laws of thermodynamics, or the laws of pressure, etc. --[[User:TempestHead]]

Crimean War

2007-03-15T21:15:11Z

TempestHead:

The Crimean War lasted from October 1853 to February 1856. It was a war fought on the [[Crimean Peninsula]] between the Russians, British, French, and [[Ottoman Turks]]. The Russians began the war with their attempts to gain access to the [[Mediterranean Sea]] through the [[Black Sea]]. The British and French defeated the Russians.

{{stub2}}

Scientific law

2007-03-15T21:13:59Z

TempestHead:

A theory that has been tested by and is consistent with generations of data.<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With General Science''. Anderson: Apologia Educational Ministries, Inc.

2000</ref>

{{stub2}}

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Science]]

Reign of Terror

2007-03-15T21:13:24Z

TempestHead:

The Reign of Terror was the time of chaos and violence that followed the execution of [[Louis XVI]].

{{stub2}}

Luke

2007-03-15T21:12:07Z

TempestHead:

Luke was a Greek doctor who wrote the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles. Luke did not observe the events of [[Jesus]]'s life first hand, but relied upon eyewitness accounts from others. Since Luke was a highly educated man, his gospel is very detailed and comprehensive. Luke is considered to be one of the best historians of ancient times.

{{stub2}}

[[Category:Bible]]
[[Category:Biographies]]

Terrorist

2007-03-15T21:05:06Z

TempestHead: improved definition

{{stub}}

'''Terrorism''' is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

==See also==
*[[September 11, 2001 attacks]]
*[[Osama Bin Laden]]
*[[Islam]]

Phytoplankton

2007-03-15T21:03:11Z

TempestHead:

Tiny floating [[photosynthesis|photosynthetic]] [[organism]]s, primarily algae.<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Biology''. Apologia
Educational Ministries, Inc. 1998</ref>

{{stub2}}

==See also==
*[[Plankton]] (main article)
*[[Zooplankton]]

==References==

<references/>

[[Category:Biology]]

Guest worker

2007-03-15T21:02:05Z

TempestHead: removed inccorect, biased opinion.

A '''Guest Worker''' is a person who works in a country other than the one of which he or she is a citizen.

{{stub2}}

Duma

2007-03-15T20:58:38Z

TempestHead:

The Duma was the first [[Russia|Russian]] parliament. It was established by [[Czar Nicholas II]]. The Duma met for the first time in 1906, but Nicholas dissolved the parliament after it had only met for ten weeks. It met again occasionally, but never seemed to have much power.

{{stub2}}

Phloem

2007-03-15T20:49:11Z

TempestHead:

Vascular [[tissue]] that carries substances downward in a [[plant]].<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Biology''. Apologia
Educational Ministries, Inc. 1998</ref>

{{stub2}}

==References==

<references/>

[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Botany]]

Heinrich Himmler

2007-03-15T20:46:57Z

TempestHead:

Heinrich Himmler was born in [[Munich]] in 1900. He was an early follower of [[Adolf Hitler]]{{fact}}, and in 1936 he was named chief of police for all of [[Germany]]. When the [[SS]] was established in 1925 Himmler was given command of that also. In 1943 he was made Minister of the Interior and Minister of Home Defense in 1944. He died in 1945 when he committed suicide after being captured by the [[Allies|Allied]] troops. Himmler was one of the most sinister of all the Nazi leaders. Miilions were killed by men under his command{{fact}}.

{{stub2}}

[[Category:Biographies]]

Far East

2007-03-15T20:43:38Z

TempestHead:

An inexact term used to refer to the area emcompassing East Asia, Southeast Asia, South Asia, and Eastern Russia; the Pacific and Indian Ocean coast region of Asia.

{{stub2}}

Endothermic

2007-03-15T20:43:23Z

TempestHead:

In [[biology]], a creature is considered endothermic if it has an internal mechanism by which it can regulate its own body temperature, keeping it constant.<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Biology''. Apologia Educational Ministries, Inc. 1998</ref> More generally, an endothermic process is any process that uses up more [[heat]] than it produces.

{{stub2}}

==See also==
*[[Ectothermic]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Biology]]

Cable News Network

2007-03-15T20:43:09Z

TempestHead:

'''CNN''' (officially the '''Cable News Network''') is the oldest 24 hour cable news channel in the [[United States]]. First started in 1980 by [[Ted Turner]] it is a division of the Turner Broadcasting System, which is owned by Time Warner.

From its origin as a cable-only service, CNN now broadcasts worldwide by satellite, with programs presented from studios in several countries in addition to their headquarters in Atlanta. Some regions receive locally produced opt-outs (under the name "CNN International"), and there are also broadcasts in [[Spanish]] and Turkish.

{{stub2}}

Theodor Herzl

2007-03-15T20:42:32Z

TempestHead:

Theodor Herzl was the founder of modern political Zionism. He lived from [May 2, 1860 – July 3, 1904]

{{stub2}}

Norris-LaGuardia Act

2007-03-15T20:42:20Z

TempestHead:

The Norris-LaGuardia Act (1932) restricted the conditions under which courts could issue orders restraining labor unions. The Act also outlawed the [[yellow-dog contract]].

[[Category:United States law]]

{{stub2}}

Kingdom of Ghana

2007-03-15T20:42:10Z

TempestHead:

The Kingdom of Ghana (A.D. 800-1076) was located in West [[Africa]] and was mostly [[Muslim]]. It thrived under strong rulers and an active gold-salt trade across the Sahara. Trade was based on leopard skins, slaves, pepper, ivory, bronze, brass and copper.

{{stub2}}

Hindi

2007-03-15T20:42:03Z

TempestHead:

Hindi is the official language of the union government of India. It is an indo-European language that is spoken mainly in northern and central India.

{{stub2}}

Homotopy group

2007-03-15T20:41:33Z

TempestHead:

Homotopy groups are tools used in [[algebraic topology]] to classify [[topological space]]s. The different ways to map an '''n-sphere''' continuously into a given topological space are divided into equivalence classes, called '''homotopy classes'''.
[[Category:Mathematics]]

{{stub2}}

Adoption

2007-03-15T20:40:44Z

TempestHead:

Adoption is the voluntary acceptance by a family, typically a mother and father, of a child born to other parents.

In 1990, the [[U.S. Department of State]] issued almost 7,100 visas for foreign orphans adopted by Americans.<ref>National Catholic Register B1 (Mar. 4-10, 2007) </ref> By 2006, this number had increased to 20,679 visas for such orphans.

In 2002, 22,291 babies were adopted in the United States.<ref>Data from the National Council for Adoption</ref>

The legalization and promotion of [[abortion]] in certain states did reduce adoption there.<ref>http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3402502.html</ref>

{{stub2}}

== References ==

<references/>

Mobilization

2007-03-15T20:40:28Z

TempestHead:

Mobilization is movement of troops to an area having conflict.

{{stub2}}

Discontinuous theory of matter

2007-03-15T20:40:21Z

TempestHead:

The Discontinuous theory of matter is the idea that substances are composed of tiny particles, in opposition to the [[Continuous theory of matter]].

{{stub2}}

Balance of power

2007-03-15T20:38:30Z

TempestHead:

The "balance of power" was an equilibrium of power in [[Europe]] after [[Napoleon Bonaparte|Napoleon]] whereby aggression by one nation would be offset by the combined power of other nations. This balance of power prevented one nation from imposing its will on other nations.

{{stub2}}

Conservapedia:Abuse

2007-03-15T20:37:30Z

TempestHead:

<center><big>''Justice never sleeps''</big></center>
{|
|This is where you can report abuse of editing privileges. Please make notes short and concise. Crossed out notes have been dealt with.
|Archives
[[/archive1|1]]
|}

*[[Eric Mukherjee]]. Suspect harmless undergraduate prankster hi-jinks. No sources provided. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 11:43, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
:'''(removed names - these people may not be involved. Unfair to publically name and shame them if they are not)'''--[[User:AustinM|AustinM]] 12:10, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
[[user: JC]] is a suspected vandal. Could some one revert his edits I have done some but I don't thave time right now to search through everything.

===Christianity===
The page has been blocked to prevent editing, which I would normally commend had the content been accurate, except that the existing definition of Christianity is a weak rendition of the actual Biblical revelation. It should not be defined by a Harris poll! If you are to be any better than Wikipedia, you must want truth to be objectively stated. For something as important as one's eternal relationship with God Himself, the information better be accurate!

In Wikipedia, when Christians try to edit, say to some cult's page, the cult members merely come and erase it and edit it out. Truth doesn't matter to the site, and they allow the false claims to continue. That should be different here! Truth is objective, and can be known by anyone, believer or unbeliever in Christianity. Facts are still facts. But we can only write articles to the level of our knowledge. Whoever wrote, wrote what he could, but it can be improved, and should be allowed to be improved.

I would suggest a respected editorial Board for Christian issues. All Christian denominations surprisingly agree on the basics such as are in the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds of the Church. There is one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit; Jesus is fully God and flly man; He died and rose physically from the dead; He offers salvation solely on account of His grace, His works on our behalf, as our Substitute, taking the wrath of God due us. God calls us to repent and believe, and that faith is a "gift, that no man may boast."(Eph.2:8,9). Our salvation is because of the works of Christ alone, and we have this knowledge from inspired Scripture alone, etc.

All three major branches of Christianity, Protestantism, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy would agree that Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian denominations, but rather non-Christian cults or religions. But in order to show the truth of various claims, there must be accuracy in reporting the facts -- objectivity. As it is right now, the definition of Christianity is far too limited.

Who do we talk to in order to submit changes for its editing?
Thank you,

PD Popejoy

:''All three major branches of Christianity, Protestantism, Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy would agree that Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian denominations, but rather non-Christian cults or religions.''
:They, on the other hand would disagree. Are we going with [[Truth By Headcount]], now? If so, the Christians were Wrong(tm) back when the Roman Empire was using them for lion chow. --[[User:Scrap|Scrap]] 06:33, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

------------------

I responded on your talk page. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 02:15, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

=Current Alerts=
Donej for his "emo" article --[[User:TempestHead|TempestHead]]

If someone could ban [[Fuckyourself]], for obvious reasons.
:Banned [[User:Geo.plrd|Geo.]] 01:28, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Look at [[Examples of Bias in Conservapedia]]. Nuff said. --[[User:Splark|Splark]] 02:06, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
:Been there, deleted that, got the hat. [[User:Geo.plrd|Geo.]] 02:09, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
::Somebody ban the kid, please. --[[User:Splark|Splark]] 02:14, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
:::I'm no kid, I'm simply telling you what you need to change before this site can be accurate. Everything.
----

===Liebniz===
I am asking that Leibniz be warned, if not temporarily banned, for repeatedly interjecting argumentative opinion into articles.--[[User:Dave3172|Dave3172]] 17:04, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

===Creationism===

[[Creationism]]

Evolutionist JoshuaZ has arbitrarily erased the correct definition of Creationism two times now.

Issue #1:

I think it is logical and plain common sense that an evolutionist should have no say in defining his scientific rival because said rendering is bound to be riddled with bias and error.

Issue #2:

At any rate, I ask that my rendering of Creationism be reviewed by Administration to be the correct rendering and that JoshuaZ be informed of the ruling if in my favor.

''Proposed Rendering''

"Creationism is the belief that physical reality plainly reflects the work of invisible Divine power (Romans 1:20) and original causation of matter and life was by supernatural agency (Genesis 1:1; chapters 1 and 2). Universally, Creationism is the belief that a Creator is responsible for producing reality (general revelation) and that this revelation is the primary way of deducing the existence of said Deity. Based on observation, Creationism asserts scientific evidence is better explained when a Creator is presupposed to have created reality."

[[User:Ray Martinez|Ray Martinez]] 14:21, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

----

=Finished=

==Conservative as an Admin==
Giving [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] admin status, and protecting articles like [[Young Earth Creationism]], has resulted in absolutely abominable, biased, unrepresentative articles. Someone should look into this; possibly an unbiased admin?--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 17:04, 14 March 2007 (EDT)
:You would have to go higher up the ladder since an Admin would have equal authority as me. [[User:Aschlafly]], who has authority over the Admins, has been working with me regarding a very similar article [[Theory of Evolution]] and he has had no complaints about the article. I don't think your complaints here are going to go very far. Here is what user Aschlafly has said about the Theory of Evolution article: "By the way, Theory of Evolution ranks number 3 in our most-visited pages, after the Main Page and Bias in Wikipedia. Well done!--Aschlafly 00:17, 27 February 2007 (EST)"[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Conservative] [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 23:06, 14 March 2007 (EDT)conservative

Conservative, could you give us your reasons as to why the page is still protected? Will it be opened again to edits? --[[User:Dave3172|Dave3172]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (EDT)
:I believe that [[User:Aschlafly]] should make the decision whether to unlock the page. However, should the page be unlocked and the direction the article takes be changed (pro-evolution view interjecting), I think it should be re-protected given [[User:Aschlafly]] previously mentioned endorsement of the page. Also, Aschlafly has called this encyclopedia Conservapedia and the creationist position is certainly a truly conservative view. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 23:23, 14 March 2007 (EDT)conservative

::I'll throw in my $0.02: From what experience I have working with Conservative and reviewing his edits, he is by and large a respectful and talented editor. Of course he has strong political and religious beliefs; nobody doesn't. But he definitely pulls his weight, and causes more good than harm. I'm not saying that all of his edits are up to chalk, but they all can be welded into shape. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 23:29, 14 March 2007 (EDT)
:::Hojimachong, thank you for your kind words. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 23:31, 14 March 2007 (EDT)conservative
::::My only grievances are the two articles listed, but I believe my fears have already been addressed. Apparently the goal of this site is not a Neutral POV, but an insular pro-fundamentalist Christian regime, which Conservative is actively following. As much as I decry that goal, you are acting within it.--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 01:11, 15 March 2007 (EDT)
:::::I agree with AmesG. While this is a conservative encyclopedia, there are many conservatives who are evolutionists. I am personally an Old Earth creationist, but I don't believe that the other side's view should be censored, especially when many of my respected conservative friends' beliefs clash directly with mine. --[[User:Splark|Splark]] 02:16, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

Complex numbers

2007-03-15T20:35:33Z

TempestHead:

The complex numbers are numbers of the form <math> a + bi </math> where <math> a </math> and <math> b </math> are real numbers and <math> i </math> is a square root of -1. The complex numbers form an [[algebraic closure|algebraically closed]] [[field (mathematics)|field]] but do not permit a non-trivial ordering that is preserved under operations.

===In popular culture===
In [[Yvgeny Zamyatin]]'s satirical novel ''[[We (novel)|We]]'', the narrator's psychological distress at contemplating the concept of complex numbers becomes a metaphor for the limitations of totalitarian systems of thought.

{{stub2}}

[[Category:Mathematics]]

Transverse wave

2007-03-15T20:34:26Z

TempestHead:

A wave whose propagation is perpendicular to its oscillation.<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Physical Science''. Apologia Educational Ministries, Inc. 1999, 2000</ref>

{{stub2}}

==References==
<references/>

The Left

2007-03-15T20:34:05Z

TempestHead:

See [[liberal]] and [[socialist]].

{{stub2}}

Complete metamorphosis

2007-03-15T20:33:41Z

TempestHead:

[[Insect]] development consisted of four stages: egg, larva, pupa, and adult.<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Biology''. Apologia Educational Ministries, Inc. 1998</ref>

{{stub2}}

==See also==
*[[Incomplete metamorphosis]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Biology]]

Rhode Island

2007-03-15T20:33:21Z

TempestHead:

'''Rhode Island''' is the smallest U.S. state in land area and one of the original thirteen colonies. Its area is 1,214 square miles, less than one-seventh the size of [[New Jersey]].

Its official name is actually "Rhode Island and Providence Plantations." So, even though it is the smallest state in the United States, it has the longest name.

''Providence,'' the capital of Rhode Island was founded by [[Roger Williams]]. It was the first government in the world to be founded on the principles of religious liberty, and separation of church and state. This was very different from the situation in Boston, which was ruled by the [[Puritan]] [[theocracy]]. [[Quaker]]s, for example, were welcome in Rhode Island but not permitted in Boston. A Quaker named Mary Dyer was put to death in Boston just for preaching Quakerism.

{{stub2}}

[[Category:US state]]

Privilege for a Private Corporation

2007-03-15T20:32:53Z

TempestHead:

The Florida Constitution prohibits the legislature from granting a privilege to a private corporation. "There shall be no special law or general law of local application pertaining to ... private incorporation or grant of privilege to a private corporation." Article III, Section 11(a)(12). This has a conceptual similarity to rules in some states against government taking private property from one to give to another.

The Virginia Constitution has a similar prohibition against granting a privilege to a private corporation.

{{stub2}}

Transpiration

2007-03-15T20:32:13Z

TempestHead:

[[Evaporation]] of [[water]] from the [[leaf|leaves]] of a [[plant]].<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Biology''. Apologia
Educational Ministries, Inc. 1998</ref>

{{stub2}}

==References==

<references/>

[[Category:Botany]]
[[Category:Biology]]

Viviparous development

2007-03-15T20:31:56Z

TempestHead:

Development that occurs inside a female, allowing the offspring to gain nutrients and vital substances from the mother through a [[placenta]].<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Biology''. Apologia
Educational Ministries, Inc. 1998</ref>

{{stub2}}

==References==

<references/>

[[Category:Biology]]

Berlin Conference

2007-03-15T20:31:24Z

TempestHead:

The Berlin Conference was a series of negotiations from Nov. 15, 1884 to Feb. 26, 1885 at Berlin, in which the major European nations met to decide questions connected with the Congo River basin in Central Africa.

{{stub2}}

Taoism

2007-03-15T20:30:58Z

TempestHead:

[[Image:Yin_yang.jpg|thumb|500px|left|Taoism is represented by [[Yin and Yang]]]]
Taoism is a Chinese philosophy which attempts to unite light or yang with dark or yin. Taoism also seeks harmony with nature.

{{stub2}}

For more, read [[World History Lecture Three]].

[[Category:Religion]]

Astronaut

2007-03-15T20:30:48Z

TempestHead:

An astronaut is a person who is trained to explore outer space, planetary moons, etc. in a space-traveling device.

{{stub2}}

Pogrom

2007-03-15T20:30:23Z

TempestHead: formatt

A pogrom (pronounced pah-GRUM) was an organized campaign of violence against Jewish settlements in Russia in the late 1800s.

{{stub2}}

Motor nervous system

2007-03-15T20:28:46Z

TempestHead:

The system of nerves which carries instructions from the CNS to the skeletal muscles.<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With General Science''. Anderson: Apologia Educational Ministries, Inc.

2000</ref>

{{stub2}}

==References==
<references/>

Heterotrophs

2007-03-15T20:27:53Z

TempestHead:

[[Organism|Organisms]] that depend on other organisms for their food.<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Biology''. Apologia Educational Ministries, Inc. 1998</ref>

{{stub2}}

==See also==
*[[Autotrophs]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Biology]]

Judges

2007-03-15T20:27:41Z

TempestHead: removed gender bias

A judge is a person who presides over a court case.

{{stub2}}

Leucippus

2007-03-15T20:26:19Z

TempestHead:

[[Image:Leucippus.jpg|thumb|150px|Leucippus]]
Leucippus (lew sip' us),(birth and death unknown), [[Greece|Greek]] scientist.

Although next to nothing is known about Leucippus, historians believe that by building off the concept of [[Anaximenes]], he came up with the idea that all things are made up of teeny units called atoms. Therefore, Leucippus is known as the father of atomic theory.

Much more is known about his student and his student's ideas about atoms, [[Democritus]].

{{stub2}}

[[Category:Biographies]]

Aphelion

2007-03-15T20:25:28Z

TempestHead:

The point at which the earth is farthest from the sun.<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Physical Science''. Apologia Educational Ministries, Inc. 1999, 2000</ref>

{{stub2}}

==References==
<references/>

Percolation

2007-03-15T20:25:14Z

TempestHead:

The process by which water passes from above the water table to below it.<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Physical Science''. Apologia Educational Ministries, Inc. 1999, 2000</ref>

{{stub2}}

==References==
<references/>