Talk:Jerry Falwell

2007-05-19T03:38:36Z

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This page needs improvement to do justice to Rev. Falwell.

I rolled back the liberal gossip about Falwell and Rev. Moon. It's nothing more than a smear effort of the sort we don't allow under our [[rules]]. Falwell is not an adherent of Rev. Moon's church and Falwell is entitled to do business just like everyone else. The smear was unsupported by a credible resource.

Be fair to Christians and everyone else here.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:16, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

:Also I'm not sure that rotten.com is a "reliable" source.[[User:Rob Pommer| Cracker]][[User_talk:Rob_Pommer|talk]] 22:18, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

: My addition to this article is based on fact, not opinion. Critics do indeed attack Falwell's connection the Unification Church. This is not an attack or "smear" on Christians in general but a verifiable fact about the controversy surrounding a public figure. Opposing viewpoints supported by citations are welcome, but this is tantamount to censorhip. Rotten has an admitted liberal bias but all their info in this instance is credible and independently verifiable.

--[[User:Hektor|Hektor]] 22:22, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm going to edit this article over the next couple days. Falwell has been a tremendous educator, and his efforts deserve more than this. Stay tuned! --[[User:Thammersmith|Thammersmith]] 21:12, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure why my changes were reverted. Jerry Falwell has ties to Republican causes and the Moral Majority is a part of the Religious Right, not the Religious right. For instance the Christian Coalition is part of the Religious Right as well. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 01:58, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

(Belated question) How is it a "smear" to link Falwell and Moon? Has [[Rev. Moon]] done something wrong? (Apart from not accepting [[Young Earth creationism]], I mean ;-) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 16:30, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

==Just passed away==
CCN just reported his death today.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 13:39, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Someone commented out his support for apartheid. Not sure why as it's factual and documented. I removed the comment block around it...apologies for the double edit.

: Jerry Falwell was frequently misquoted and misinterpreted by anti-Christian enemies. Don't expect any unsourced, biased and misleading information, motivated by anti-Christian animus, to be allowed here.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:20, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

My Civil Procedure professor represented Larry Flynt in his successful defense of Falwell's suit before the Supreme Court. He also played Falwell's attorney (switching sides) in the film version of the trial. Fun stuff. -'''Speak[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:SpeakerOfTheDead er]''' 16:38, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

==South Africa and apartheid==

Time magazine, Monday, Sep. 02, 1985:
*Falwell opposes apartheid, but professed faith that Botha will dismantle the system eventually, if only everyone is patient. [http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,959695,00.html]

I stand corrected. I'll update changes to reflect this. Stompum
*Page is locked. Mods please remove the line about Falwell's support for Apartheid.

== Sept 11 comments ==

Why were these deleted? They're important, widely publicized, etc. I can't imagine anything other than censorship - that hallmark of Wikipedia - that would compel you to leave his unpopular side out of the article.-'''Speak[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:SpeakerOfTheDead er]''' 17:13, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

:When will you revert to re-include his Sept 11th comments?-'''Speak[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:SpeakerOfTheDead er]''' 17:44, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

I believe that in the Nancy Pelosi article there is a section about her marching in the same group as a NAMBLA member. Seems very biased and one-sided to leave that part in there, but then take out any mention of Falwell's hateful statements on 9-11 because it might make him look bad. [[User:Prof0705|Prof0705]] 17:52, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

:I don't think you are going to see anything but a hagiography here. Mr. Falwell represents everything this site's owners hold dear. I'll stick to paraphrasing Randi Rhodes: "If I had anything sympathetic to say about that man at all, I'd say it." But these people love him, and it's their site. [[User:Human|Human]] 18:30, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Hagiography! Now there's a ten dollar word! Despite his apology, Rev. Falwell's quotes will forever be part of the 9/11 memory. But since the sysops love him, there's no way they'll include anything slightly negative here. RIP Falwell. Hope you don't meet any pagans, homosexuals, feminists, or ACLU members in heaven. [[User:Czolgolz|Czolgolz]] 11:29, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

Well let's make sure the comments are recorded on the talk page if not in the article. Does anybody dispute that the Rev. Falwell said this? ''The abortionists have got to bear some burden for [the attacks of Sept. 11] because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'''--[[User:Britinme|Britinme]] 19:21, 18 May 2007 (EDT)
:If he apologized & retracted the statement, why should we repeat it? And without making that point, it's more out of context quote mining. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:13, 18 May 2007 (EDT)
::I didn't know he'd apologized and retracted, but thank you for telling everybody so that we have that clear. However, he said it and presumably he said it because he thought it. Moreover, it's totally in line with other things he said, so I have no reason to think he said something he didn't mean. The fact that he was shamed into retracting it because it was so howlingly outrageous doesn't mean it doesn't represent what he thought.--[[User:Britinme|Britinme]] 22:28, 18 May 2007 (EDT)
:::Yes that is a good point. Let me throw out a rhetorical question: (a) Do you think gay adoption would be a good propaganda recruiting tool to exploit by Islamic terrorists, and (b) Do advocates of gay adoption have any moral responsibility to the rest of us ''if'' in fact gay adoption is a good recruiting tool to get suicide bombers to kill Americans? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:14, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

==Quotes==
Here's a website (I know it's biased, but the quotes are accurate): http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/devil.html

You can form your own opinion about him, I don't care what you think, but I just thought it might be helpful to create an opinion on him (to conservatives: look for the two anti-semitic quotes.)
[[User:MiddleMan|MiddleMan]]
:Oh really? Let's take this one,
*''Alcoholism and Negroes
"There are almost as many alcoholics as there
are negroes."
Rev. Jerry Falwell

You alleged "source" gives us a classic ''argumentum ad ignoratiam''. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 17:57, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

::Your reply is barely coherent. Explanation?-'''Speak[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:SpeakerOfTheDead er]''' 17:58, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
:::Your source uses the conjunctive word, "and"; Rev. Falwell nowhere conjoins alcholism and Negroes; in fact, Rev. Falwell does a compararison of the statisical population of both. This is typical of the trite garbage that passes as reasoned discourse from some sectors of liberalism. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 18:04, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
So that's one quote that might be out of context. The rest, though?-'''Speak[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:SpeakerOfTheDead er]''' 18:06, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Hey, don't shoot the messenger (I did mention the source is biased), you're entitled to your own opinion.
[[User:MiddleMan|MiddleMan]]

OK, I randomly picked a liberal quote of [[Jerry Falwell]]:

"I listen to feminists and all these radical gals - most of them are failures. They've blown it. Some of them have been married, but they married some Casper Milquetoast who asked permission to go to the bathroom. These women just need a man in the house. That's all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they're mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They're sexist. They hate men - that's their
problem."

Colorful and statistically accurate. I agree it's not politically correct. Go to Hillary Clinton for political correctness. [[Jerry Falwell]] spoke the truth in a colorful way, and we thank him for that.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:19, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

:How come you don't like women?
: Hey I'll have to tell my husband he's a Casper Milquetoast who needs to ask me for permission to go to the bathroom. He'll die laughing. Do people really take these ridiculous stereotypes seriously?--[[User:Britinme|Britinme]] 19:17, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

How about these?

"The idea of separation of Church and State
was invented by the Devil to keep Christians
from running their own country."

Rev. Jerry Falwell

"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure
as a human being."

Rev. Jerry Falwell

"He is purple - the gay-pride colour; and his antenna
is shaped like a triangle - the gay-pride symbol."

Rev. Jerry Falwell
(Falwell on the teletubbies, come on, how much more paranoid can you get?)
::Did he really say this? Check a less biased source.[[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]]
:::Falwell's magazine to his supporters (and not even Falwell himself) first brought up the topic, but it was a repeat of what was already being winked at in media circles. Both Time Magazine and TV guide had already brought out the same information (albeit not in a negative form), a fact easily forgotten when the opportunity to blame Jerry Falwell arose. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 22:06, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

I got 10 identical matches on the first page of google...
[[User:MiddleMan|MiddleMan]]
::Yes, but he himself did not say this. It was his newspaper. He had no involvement.[[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]]

I wasn't there, and wikipedia is rather vague about it, but the BBC link is pretty clear, what do you think of his claims about Jews?
[[User:MiddleMan|MiddleMan]]

He said: "God doesn't listen to Jews." --[[User:Britinme|Britinme]] 19:20, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

And for all those people with little Israeli flags on their user pages:

"I know a few of you here today don't like Jews.
And I know why. He can make more money accidentally
than you can on purpose.

Rev. Jerry Falwell

The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief.
They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of
their Messiah and Savior.

Jerry Falwell, Listen, America!

[[User:MiddleMan|MiddleMan]]

== Confronting his critics ==

While I disagree with the Rev on many issues, he was never afraid to discuss his disagreements with others. He would have gladly sat down with Clinton, Dawkins, anyone, and debated any issue. I do wish more people would follow that example, rather than censoring or pushing away those with whom they disagree.[[User:JoyousOne|JoyousOne]] 20:22, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

== History will judge him harshly ==

Ultimately, Falwell was one of the group who used religion as a cause for separating rather than uniting. His notoriously stupid remarks about gays just after 9/11, a somewhat thinly disguised anti-semetism, and some absurd remarks on pop culture (you know, the one about the Tele-tubby being a gay role model), rather than appealing to our better selves, goaded our darker sides.

My reading of the new testatment indicates that Jesus preached tolerance and loving thy neighbor. And indeed, when I was a kid, I recall religous folks were always pretty nice people, even their kids couldn't play hockey on Sunday.

Tell you what, read the book of Matthew, look at some old Billy Graham sermons, and forget this mean-spirted blowhard.--[[User:Trajsmith|Trajsmith]] 20:44, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
:So I guess an apology means nothing, huh? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:14, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
::I don't think that an apology undoes the harm he did to a country that was trying to heal, when he tore the wounds open & rubbed salt in them again.-'''Speak[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:SpeakerOfTheDead er]''' 21:25, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
:::will someone explain exactly what harm he did?[[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]]
Bohdan, here [http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/]

Speaker, Frankly, I'm certain Falwell spoke from the heart, and quickly realized America needed to be united in the coming war, and not fighting among ourselves. That's why he immediately issued the apology. Truth is, I'm also fairly certain Falwell gave voice to the sentiments a lot of other Americans were experiencing at the same time. And based upon the daily drumbeat of hatred we see from gays and neopagans directed at Bush, (and comments we've seen here), Falwell was right. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:42, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

:Daily drumbeat of hatred from homosexuals and neopagans? Can you give an... actual example? I'm thrilled to see it.-'''Speak[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:SpeakerOfTheDead er]''' 21:53, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
::Polls say 60%+ nolonger wish to take the war to the terrorists. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:57, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
::I hate to say it, but that's 60% of the American people, right? So it's not like it's exclusively gays and pagans who don't particularly like Bush. I'm sure there are people in the 60% who are not gay or pagan who hate Bush, while not the majority. [[User:GofG | GofG]] [[Special:Contributions/GofG||||]] [[User talk:GofG | Talk]] 21:59, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
:::Go to [[:Category:Anti-war movement]] and see who's been anti-war since Falwell made this statement. Incidentally, too bad the NAMBLA article got deleted, they've been leading the anti-war movement since March 2003. But for reference, you can visit NAMBLA advocate [[Harry Hay]]. Seems he's no stranger to anti-war activity and working with America's enemies since the Korean War. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:07, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
::::That's ''Guilt By Association'', and it is most certainly a fallacy. NAMBLA most certainly has not been ''leading'' the anti-war movement. Have you seen any news reports about NAMBLA organizing anti-war protests? I sure haven't. Not on Fox or otherwise.
::::Then again, you might be implying that the reason why NAMBLA is anti-war is because Falwell accused them of being responsible. As he didn't even mention NAMBLA in the quote, I find this hard to believe. [[User:GofG | GofG]] [[Special:Contributions/GofG||||]] [[User talk:GofG | Talk]] 07:14, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

== Past tense ==

Someone who actually sees "edit" rather than "view source" on the article page should go around and change all the verbs to past tense so that instead of saying he does something they say he did something. The man is dead. He's not doing any of those things anymore. [[User:Nakedtruth|Nakedtruth]] 23:06, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

== Name ==

Add: Jerry Laymon Falwell Sr.

Thank you

--[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 07:58, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

== External links ==

Add also a link:

External Links: [http://www.falwell.com/ J. F. Website]

And a pic: Image:Falwell.jpg|right [[Image:Falwell.jpg|right|Demons are ass-raping me in hell for all the hate I spread on earth. It really hurts my bum]]

( source:http://www.falwell.com/index.cfm?PID=13737 )

--[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 08:03, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

==Picture==

Can this picture be added to the article. I uploaded it before I realized the page was locked.

[[Image:Jfalwell.jpg|thumb|250px]]

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Talk:Jerry Falwell