Talk:NATO war in Ukraine

2026-10-31T22:48:46Z

Truman: /* DPR snipers */

Turkey cannot be considered a belligerent power yet:
*Turkey host peace talks and acts as mediator;
*Turkey has not imposed sanctions and welcomes Russian investors and tourists;
*Turkey has closed the Dardanelles to NATO warships;
*Grey Wolves is not a government entity;
*Turkish cooperation with Russia in Syria.

On the other side of the leger you have:
*Sale of Baktayar drones to Ukraine.

Now, if you can prove Turkey allowed NATO forces through the Dardanelles to sink the Moskva, you possible have a case, however that still appears highly unlikely.

Please, think twice before inserting ANY information attributed to Ukrainian sources, like [[Klitschko]] (remember what [[Nuland]] said about Klitschko?) [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Z]] 01:50, May 2, 2022 (EDT)

Turkey would fall under NATO, anyway, which is already listed, showing how susceptible you are to Ukie propaganda, brainwashing, and Western psyops. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Z]] 02:12, May 2, 2022 (EDT)

==DPR snipers==
DPR snipers are using the same 1943 & 1944 Mosin sniper rifles their grandfathers used to kill Nazi to kill Nazis today. [https://youtu.be/YN6I9IJMxtY?t=756] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Z]] 16:49, June 2, 2022 (EDT)
- the people of ukraine are not Nazis, go fuck yourself

== reversion was an accident ==
My reversion was an accident due to a touch-screen mishap. I didn't even know it happened until now. Sorry! I will try to restore but that is not easy now.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 02:15, August 8, 2022 (EDT)
:No problem. I'll fix it. I was wondering what happened, like maybe you got a nasty phone call complaining about "NATO aggression" or something. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Ich bin ein breakfast taco]] 02:33, August 8, 2022 (EDT)
:I have deliberately tried to avoid using links to The Saker blog & Southfront to avoid Google blacklisting, cause they are largely regarded as [[GRU]] fronts (which they probably are). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Ich bin ein breakfast taco]] 02:35, August 8, 2022 (EDT)

==What a bunch of idiots==
Ukraine right now has superior artillery weapons, albeit far fewer in number than necessary. The problem is, nobody knows how to use them. It can take 18 months of training on some systems, and their best soldiers now are long dead.

Lay this devastating debacle on the doorstep of the NATO idiots, the Zelensky regime idiots, the EU idiots who bankrupted themselves and destroyed their own economies to pay for it, and the idiots in the Biden White House and NSC staff.

If I were a Ukrainian "nationalist", I'd be blaming the West right now BIG TIME. If I were an American (which I am) I'd get the hell out before this contagion of death and destruction in Ukraine, and starvation in the EU, spreads to the U.S. The time is short. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Ich bin ein breakfast taco]] 05:44, August 29, 2022 (EDT)

== The article tone should be improved ==

While it's apparent that Ukrainian nationalists have committed numerous atrocities, the Kremlin forces aren't innocent either since they also bombed buildings and killed innocent people. —[[User:Liberaltears|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:Liberaltears|(The Old Right was right!)]]''''' Monday, 16:29, November 21, 2022 (EST)
:We don't know that for sure. All we have is discredited Ukrainian and Western media sources spewing that biased hate and garbage. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 00:00, November 22, 2022 (EST)

:Western media has two serious problems (1) they knowingly discredited themselves by knowingly reporting biased and false information; (2) they knowingly discredited themselves by censoring Russian sources. That is their problem they created for themselves. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 00:05, November 22, 2022 (EST)

==Findings==
So, Obama ordered up the [[Russiagate]] hoax https://nypost.com/2020/06/27/fresh-evidence-obama-ordered-up-the-phony-russiagate-scandal/

To cover his butt, he authorized covert [[sabotage]] activities inside [[Russia]] (''[https://archive.vn/DBHCM WaPo]'').

The sabotage activities are now provocative Acts of War that invite a retaliatory strike against the United States. [https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/cia-directing-sabotage-attacks-inside-russia-report][https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1713891/Russia-oil-pipeline-gas-explosion-Ukraine-war-airbase-attack-CIA-spies-NATO-latest][https://jackmurphywrites.com/169/the-cias-sabotage-campaign-inside-russia/]

Nixon could not have thought up something so diabolical. This is the "change you can believe in", thermonuclear war based on lies to get back at Trump for the [[Birther]] movement. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 21:20, December 27, 2022 (EST)

==Zaporozhe==
Interesting documentary on [https://youtu.be/s9pcCuBNSR8 Zaporozhe]. Since the 2014 coup, Western oligarchs have driven down the price of wheat, trying to run Zaporozhe farmers out of business so Western agricultural conglomerates can buy them up cheap. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']]

This would be called the "weaponization of food" - "he who controls the food supply controls the world". IOWs, Western oligarchs and agricultural conglomerates bought wheat heavily after the Maidan coup to suppress the price, impoverish Ukrainian farmers, and drive them out of business. Putin disrupted their plans (he saw what they did in Russia under [[Yeltsin]]).

:Comment: So obviously Western oligarchs and multinational agricultural conglomerates kicked back millions into foundations, think tanks, educational institutions, media, and political coffers to [[demonize]] Putin (you know, all the [[globalist]] garbage User:Cons persistently cites) for all money he cost them and thwarting their longterm goals. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 14:01, March 3, 2023 (EST)

This plan of lowering prices to drive smaller competitors out of business and buy them up was perfected by [[John D. Rockefeller]] and Standard Oil and why [[anti-trust]] laws were passed in the United States. Only Russia, and now Ukraine, didn't have any such laws to protect small enterprises from unfair trade practices prior to Putin. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 14:07, March 3, 2023 (EST)

Putin is the champion of mom n pop [[Main Street]] businesses and consumers who enjoy the benefits of price competition in Russia, and now Ukraine, to protect them from [[monopoly]] control of large corporations. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 14:12, March 3, 2023 (EST)
::Poor, misunderstood St. Putin - the divorced, ex-KGB man whose drunk countrymen don't have a replacement level of children. And merely 1% of his countrymen go to church. If only they had a leader who regularly went to church to serve as a role model! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:03, March 3, 2023 (EST)
::::Don't tell me, tell the democratic voters who elected Putin. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 15:42, March 4, 2023 (EST)
:::Putin is an ex-KGB officer. It is not a stretch of the imagination to believe the numerous credible reports of him killing his political opponents or the numerous credible reports of Russia setting up torture places in Ukraine. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:13, March 4, 2023 (EST)
::::Who killed [[Andrew Breitbart]]? Who killed [[Jeffrey Epstein]]? Who killed [[John F. Kennedy]]. One day you will wake up and realize that you live in the real world. Till then, I doubt you understand Prof. Mearsheimer's school of realism. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 15:42, March 4, 2023 (EST)
::::Torture? That must make him evil, I 'spose. Who ran the torture places in [[Gitmo]] and [[Libya]], Dick Cheney, [[John Brennan]], or [[Barack Obama]]? It really doesn't matter, cause you paid for it and they did it in your name. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 15:59, March 4, 2023 (EST)
::::But for clarity, I agree with you: Torturing U.S.-backed Nazis for more information about their contacts and organization is, as Biden says about "[[Superpredator]]s", beyond the pale. Instead, you just hang'em with a loose rope so they dangle for 15 minutes before actually dying. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWEZe5qGZ_g] That didn't violate the Geneva Convention, did it?
::::Which raises a very interesting question, ''Why were the Americans tasked with the executions, and not the Russians, French, or Brits? Oh, yeah, cause '''they''' were expected to carry out justice fairly and not get carried away with emotion.'' [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 15:59, March 4, 2023 (EST)
:::::I note with great bemusement that you didn't jump on the anti-torture bandwagon of the Democrats and Barack Obama when the facts were known in 2008, and now you wanna accuse others of [[whataboutism]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 16:27, March 4, 2023 (EST)
:'''''Breaking:''''' Zaporozhe [[Territorial Defense]] mutinies against [[Zelensky regime]].

:'''''Breaking:''''' <s>The 'SOB' [[Biden]] wanted fired who colluded with [[Giuliani]] during [[Impeachment sham|impeachment 2.0]] ([[Lutsenko]]) isn't a Russian agent afterall, and is fighting with the [[AFU]] in [[Bakhmut]].</s> [https://ria.ru/20230304/artemovsk-1855821292.html] The guy who replaced the 'SOB' [[Viktor Shokin]] that Biden wanted fired is fighting in Bakhmut. Will he survive as a [[POW]] to tell his story about covering up the crimes of [[Burisma]]? Why was a 60 year old man sent on a suicide mission? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 15:34, March 4, 2023 (EST)

::User:Conservative: On a personal level, discussing Russia, Putin, the war, of anything geopolitical with you is reminiscent of geopolitical discussions I had with Clintonites, both in person and on the internet, in the 1990s. With a sense of nostalgia, [https://youtu.be/uCGD9dT12C0 here's your theme song. Enjoy.] [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 04:34, March 5, 2023 (EST)
:::On a superficial level, you have bought into Russian propaganda hook, line and sinker. But at a deeper level, you still recognize that the United States is a superior culture and place to live because you have not moved to Russia where Russian state propaganda floods the media and alternative media outlets have been shut down. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 05:00, March 5, 2023 (EST)
::::"superior culture". Nothing more needs to be said. As the US suffers another major military defeat at the hands of subhuman, uncivilized barbaric Russian Asiatic hordes, and with the transition to [[multipolar]]ity, that's one phrase you will need to expunge from your vocabulary and thinking. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 14:58, March 6, 2023 (EST)

::::And no, I haven't "bought the Russian line hook line and sinker". I can began studying US-Russian relations circa 1963 when the United States was going to draft my butt when I turned 18 to go off and get killed in a war for God knows what. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 15:01, March 6, 2023 (EST)

== citations ==

Since when was it a blockable offense to request citations? According to the manual of style, references are needed in almost all cases. --[[User:DavidB4|DavidB4]] ([[User talk:DavidB4|TALK]]) 04:00, March 11, 2024 (EDT)
:That's not what he was blocked for. He was blocked for trolling in the [[Three-Fifths Compromise‎‎]] & [[Democratic Party]] articles.

:It was a 3 hour Warning block when he's not even active. All you do is extend his block by edit warring in the block log.

:His trolling in the [[Vladimir Putin]] and [[Dmitry Medvedev]] articles he could have easily fixed himself with citations to ''Politico'' and the ''New York Times'' by using the accelerator, but he chose to troll instead. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Zelensky didn't kill himself'']] 04:03, March 11, 2024 (EDT)

::Oh, we also have [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AMain_Page&diff=2033396&oldid=2033309 his trolling in MPR]; [[Navalny]] was the leader of Russian liberals - who Western liberals blame Putin for his death. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Zelensky didn't kill himself'']] 04:43, March 11, 2024 (EDT)

::We also have the problem of his violation of the good faith editing pledge in the Civility Association. But that's your problem, being that you are a member. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Zelensky didn't kill himself'']] 17:48, March 11, 2024 (EDT)

==Reprisal actions==
The [https://t.me/wartimedia/99998 visualization of the drone & missile] response to NATO attacks on Russia proper suggest Russia's next priorities are [[Nikolaev]] & [[Odessa]], not Dnepropetrovsk & Kharkov. This will make rump Ukraine landlocked and dependent on Russia. Odessa has to be approached from the north, and not by a seaborn invasion.

Zaporozhye needs to be taken first.

Sumy is an afterthought to create a buffer zone since the NATO attacks on Old Russia. But it also opens the door to [[Kiev]] if NATO & Ukraine don't come to their senses (NATO never intended to "win", just to an attempt to "weaken" or demilitarize Russia before the attack on China. That backfired bigtime. Russia will provide China with [[S-400]] & [[S-500]]s to defend [[Taiwan]] from US aggression).

Anyways, this is the result when you let [[idiot]] Democrats steal elections and put them in charge of [[national security]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Zelensky Must Go!'']] 22:09, June 6, 2025 (EDT)

==Kill zone operations==
The [[War of Attrition]] is over. [[Kill Zone]] operations ([[escalation]]) are underway. [[Trump]] greenlighted the go-ahead to [[Putin]] at the [[Alaska Summit]] to finish off [[Ukraine]] on the battlefield. This means a move through the [[Zaporozhye]] line-of-contact. taking the cities of [[Nikolaev]] & finally [[Odessa]], making what remains of the Ukrainian rump state landlocked, dependent on its neighbors, [[Russia]], [[Poland]] & [[Lithuania]], for imports and exports (see also [[tariff]]s for info about [[trade]] crossing borders. Russia has more to offer in the form of [[energy]], oil & gas then [[Western]] neighbors. Ukraine should have took the deals at [[Minsk Accords|Minsk]] or [[Istanbul I]] rather than listen to its [[American]] and Western [[suicide]] enablers.). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Zelensky Must Go!'']] 15:04, August 29, 2025 (EDT)

'''Update on casualties for 2025:''' The numbers [[Trump]] gives are totally off base. For most of 2025, if Ukraine held its casualties to 600 per day, that was a good day. Russian casualties up to August - if they ''exceeded'' 23 casualties per day, that was a bad day. Many days were even in single digits. Yes, there were days when Russian casualties exceeded 100. Since August however, if casualties exceed 112, that's a big offensive day. On the Ukrainian side since August, it's not uncommon to lose 1,400 to 2,000 daily. If casualties are under 1,000, that is a good day.

[[TCC]] kidnappings off the street are not supplying half the monthly losses. The people that survive just 3 weeks after being kidnapped and bussed off to the [[meatgrinder]] insure a steady decline in quality.

*[https://capitalcosm.substack.com/p/the-war-is-already-lost-they-just The War Is Already LOST — They Just Won’t Admit It] | [[Larry Johnson]] & [[Alex Krainer]].
The people prolonging the [[war]], [[Zelensky]], [[Rutte]], [[Trump]], [[Macron]], [[Starmer]], [[Merz]], [[Von der Leyen]], [[Donald Tusk|Tusk]] knowingly are causing more needless and senseless deaths on both sides. Why that is can be explained, and they will be held accountable.

The casualty exchange ratio has held steady at about 6:1 for 2025 in favor of Russia. When [[Donald Trump]] says 27,000 were killed in November, that means the Russians had about 3,000 casualties, or more than 100 per day. The Ukrainians lost around 24,000 in one month, maybe even slightly below the average for the year (the manpower shortage is beginning to show up in the rate at which people are being killed).

The only question remaining is, ''Who'' are the Russians being killed on the front? That is a question for another time, as readers learn more about how the Russian Army, and the Russian way of war, differs from everything Hollywood, the [[Pentagon]], Western media, and the America public understand about Russia and [[Eurasian]] [[culture]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Recovering Republican]] 01:25, December 26, 2025 (EST)

===A cultural perspective on war===

I can only touch on some broad outlines now for the serious student, and will have to expound more later. The [[Eurasian]] way of war differs from the [[Geneva Convention|gentlemen sitting around a table]] in [[Geneva]] who crafted "the [[humane]] [[rule]]s of [[war]]". The [[Soviet Union]] even signed on to those "humane rules" in 1960. But with [[the West]] showing no inclination to follow its own rules, the [[tradition]]s of Eastern culture in the realm of [[war]] are staging a comeback - with modern [[technology]].

This isn't to say all Western ideas and understanding about how [[war]] should be conducted are being abandoned at once. But time will be given for Westerners to quit dreaming and come around to [[reality]]. Beginning with the [[criminal]] class that their societies produce, supported by the [[taxpayer]], either in [[prison]] or out. In most non-Western societies, criminals are offered the opportunity to redeem themselves (while being fed & clothed) in the [[military]]. In the "civilized" [[United States]], [[Keynesianism]] feeds everybody - the [[MIC]], [[illegal immigrants]], [[criminal]]s, [[taxpayers]], [[consumers]], the elderly, [[SNAP]] beneficiaries, student loan borrowers, [[ACA]] recipients, subprime borrowers, etc. etc. etc. In eastern cultures, persons convicted under their [[law]]s and [[due process]] - murderers, rapists, pedophiles, thieves, drunks, drug addicts, etc. etc. etc. - have no right to impose the cost of their maintenance on free people. We'll have to save the debate about forced labor being [[slavery]] for another time. Bottomline: [[War]] can be a way for the dregs of humanity to redeem themselves. Only [[the West]] will consider it a step backward from "[[progressivism]]". [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Recovering Republican]] 02:41, December 26, 2025 (EST)

This isn't such a farfetched idea from American culture. Read the case of [[John Walker]], the 17-year-old [[juvenile delinquent]] who was given the choice of going into a boy's home or the [[US Navy]]. He chose the Navy, where he eventually was entrusted with the codes for [[nuclear]] submarines that he in turn sold to the [[Soviet Union]]. The difference is, the Russian, Chinese, North Koreans and other Eastern cultures aren't as [[stupid]] as [[American]]s when bringing the [[criminal]] class into the [[military]]. (''[[WP]]: "Presently, all branches of the U.S. military forbid the acceptance of convicts, both after sentencing and as an alternative to imprisonment (except the U.S. Navy, which does not have specific prohibitions but still strongly discourages it as a protocol).'' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_military_unit#cite_ref-:2_20-1] The article is sorely lacking in many areas). Eastern societies have a much longer [[history]], experience, and tradition in dealing with these problems. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Recovering Republican]] 02:54, December 26, 2025 (EST)

:For historical reference, see the Hollywood film, ''The Dirty Dozen'', or read about how the ''[[Einsatzgruppen]]'' were recruited from prisons and mental hospitals from people considered unfit for frontline duty. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Recovering Republican]] 03:15, December 26, 2025 (EST)

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Talk:NATO war in Ukraine