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Talk:Essay:Pat Tillman was not an atheist

2009-10-02T18:58:08Z

Tyson:

Your logic is very questionable. You're saying "We have to disregard the fact that Tillman said he was an atheist, because what he did does not fit my perception of atheists." You're wrong. You have to disregard your perception of atheists, because when you actually look at who atheists are, you see that they do not fit a mold. Atheists can be drug dealers, or, as Pat Tillman so beautifully proved with his life - heroes. And if you would honestly throw out everything that Tillman did if he was an atheist (in spite of the fact he died for this country, you say that if he was an atheist, he'd be a "leftwing zero") then it is you who are the zero.--[[User:PatrickTom|PatrickTom]] 22:16, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

:Nobody changes right? At 16, his convictions for life are atheism, yeah right. Not my perception, it is the fact what he did after that point. All atheists are zeros, getit? By what he did and acted, he never was one. At the very least, he was agnostic. You are wrong, to bad for your atheist trophy is now tarnished.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 22:25, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

::All atheists are zeroes? So if Tillman were an atheist - you would trash the fact that he died for this country. Again - it is your mold that does not fit atheists; as I said, atheists can be drug dealers - or they can be heroes. If you are so naive to believe that everyone who is an atheist must be a bad person - than you should grow up - and until you grow up - why don't you not accuse any American soldier of being a liar. You have tarnished your own trophy.--[[User:PatrickTom|PatrickTom]] 22:30, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Patt I agree with Tom here. I think the fact that you would call Tillman a zero if he was an atheist is pretty outrageous. Please clarify that statement.--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 22:38, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

:It's my essay, PatTom just has hurt feelings like a baby. A great warrior, a tremendous athlete, a friend to many, a strong willed individual. If an atheist- add zero to the list. What is wrong with saying that, taboo? Tillman wasn't, no matter how hard they try and make him appear that way. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 22:45, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

::Oh I think I may have misunderstood. Are you saying that "If Pat TiIlman did everything he did and he was an atheist he'd be a zero" or are you saying that "If Pat Tillman was an atheist he'd be a zero, so he couldn't do everything he did"? If it's the latter, I apologize, if it's the former - then I think I would contest that because I'm not sure if it's appropriate to throw out someone's entire life just because he or she is an atheist.--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 22:55, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

:::You can be a good person and a zero at the same time. I am not trying to win friends with my point. Ronald Reagan is the best Conservative this nation ever had. If Ron was an atheist, I would say he was the best conservative this nation ever had and a zero.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 23:01, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

::::Hmm, I mean that's an interesting thought I suppose - I did misunderstand at first - I thought you were saying that if you were an atheist, you were nothing BUT an atheists - so I apologize for that, but I suppose it is worth discussing. I mean, atheists are ignoring what is really overwhelming evidence - I'm not sure if I'd call them a zero though. I would call people who spread atheism zeroes, I would just feel bad for people who are more agnostic--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 23:06, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

::::P.S.: Arguments are never supposed to make friends :) - I do respect you a lot for making the argument - because clearly it inspires some backlash from people like "Tom" (and as we discuss more I'm finding that I agree with you more - so it's apparently an effective argument).--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 23:10, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

:::::The Truth is a double edged sword. An essay is only my op. Thanks for your input.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 23:16, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

I’m going to have to burst your bubble here.
I’m a PFC in the Army, currently deployed. I also happen to be an Atheist. This essay is a disgrace. This man does not fit into your highly prejudiced notion of what an Atheist is, so you try to deal with it by forcing your own values on him. This ignorant, pathetic body of text is a direct insult to me and every other Atheist who serves in the armed forces. As terrifying as it might seem to you, there are actually quite a few of us. 
“He wanted to change people and he wanted to change his country for the better.” Does that sound like an atheist to you?” 
“How many atheist do you know would sacrifice their life for their country? For others? Selfless is not an atheist quality.” 
Have you ever even met an Atheist? Have you ever conversed with one about their views? “Atheist” is an extremely broad term used to describe people with a wide variety of belief systems and moral values, having only one thing in common – denial of the supernatural. You clearly need to get out of your sheltered little world full of people who think the same and learn a thing or two.

[[User:Tyson|Tyson]] Friday, October 2, 2009 17:04 (GMT)

:Thanks for the advice Tyson but someone with such flawed reasoning such as yourself is not capable of the right answer. One percent of America is atheist, I guess some could end up in the military. Most likely for "self" reasons and not for their support of religious countrymen. Gary Smith claims Tillman came full circle for the support of gays. But somehow, he could not have come full circle on the support of God? I don't buy it.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 13:21, 2 October 2009 (EDT)
:What bothers me about someone like you, Tyson, is that when you go about preaching your own religious beliefs to your fellow soldiers, they get sent to hell when they die. Period. You claim there is no God, now you prove it. Prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt instead of making your silly rants here. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 14:03, 2 October 2009 (EDT)
:Exactly. Someone like "Tyson" is a disgrace to the uniform Pat Tillman lived and died to honor. [[User:DanielPulido|DanielPulido]] 14:13, 2 October 2009 (EDT)
::::FYI, I don't preach to anyone. Unlike you people, I don't go around judging people and trying to scare them into thinking like me with horror stories. Most of the time I don't even bring up my religion unless someone asks about it. Even if I did try, why would you be concerned, surely having someone around with a different view will only serve to cause others to reflect on why they believe what they believe. Your response makes me terribly sad. It seems to me that you don't even think of Atheists as people. "End up in the military"? What, do you think some of us just mindlessly wander into recruiting stations and sign our lives away on accident? Also, pretty sneaky of you to use the term "religious countrymen" to seperate us. I support my countrymen, but that doesn't mean I have to support their religion(s). There is a difference. I have to work with people of many different religions. I know for a fact that in my company, I am not the only Atheist, and there are also plenty of others - Agnostic, Wiccan, etc. That's what is the most beautiful thing about America, the tolerance of many different cultures and ideas. That's what freedom is all about. We have disagreements, but when it comes down to it, most of my fellow soldiers (unlike you apparently) can see that despite differences in belief, we are all just people. I still have a family, friends, hopes, and dreams. I am a complete person just like you. I would lay down my life for my comrades, just as I'm sure some of them would do the same for me. Honestly, I think I'm wasting my time talking to you people about this, though. People like you never leave your comfortable little echo chamber. [[User:Tyson|Tyson]] Friday, October 2, 2009 at 18:23 (GMT)

Ha, delete my stuff instead of responding huh? Next step is to get me banned I guess. This is a talk page, I'm not being offensive and I haven't even edited the article or anything. Does anybody really think that's a healthy way to operate, trying to silence different opinions?

Tell me something, Mr. Daniel, who calls me a disgrace to the uniform and decides to delete my posts. How many times have you been sent thousands of miles overseas, to a hostile country, not getting to see any friends or family for a year or more? How many of your friends have died a violent death?
[[Tyson|Tyson]] Friday, October 2, 2009 at 18:55

Talk:Essay:Pat Tillman was not an atheist

2009-10-02T18:23:50Z

Tyson: time stamp

Talk:Essay:Pat Tillman was not an atheist

2009-10-02T18:20:43Z

Tyson:

Talk:Essay:Pat Tillman was not an atheist

2009-10-02T17:08:41Z

Tyson: Formatting

Talk:Essay:Pat Tillman was not an atheist

2009-10-02T17:06:42Z

Tyson: