Talk:2012 Summer Olympics - Revision history

DerekSquared at 01:59, October 27, 2022

2022-10-27T01:59:40Z

BarryN: /* Canada's years */

2013-06-19T19:38:30Z

‎Canada's years

Aschlafly: /* The Durant question */ Please do improve the entry!

2013-06-19T17:04:36Z

‎The Durant question: Please do improve the entry!

Aschlafly: /* Canada's years */ Suppose a nation converted to gay marriage 1 day before the Olympics began? Prorating the time makes more sense.

2013-06-19T16:57:48Z

‎Canada's years: Suppose a nation converted to gay marriage 1 day before the Olympics began? Prorating the time makes more sense.

BarryN: /* Canada's years */ new section

2013-06-19T15:36:53Z

‎Canada's years: new section

JAnderson: /* The Durant question */

2013-06-19T13:55:03Z

‎The Durant question

Aschlafly: No, I don't think so, unless the player has a relatively low field goal percentage, as Kobe Bryant does compared with the best players

2013-06-19T13:48:19Z

No, I don't think so, unless the player has a relatively low field goal percentage, as Kobe Bryant does compared with the best players

JAnderson: /* The Durant question */ new section

2013-06-19T13:45:09Z

‎The Durant question: new section

JAnderson: /* The Durant question */ new section

2013-06-19T13:44:42Z

‎The Durant question: new section

Gregkochuconn: /* Will countries that have implemented same-sex marriage underperform? */

2012-08-21T22:15:19Z

‎Will countries that have implemented same-sex marriage underperform?

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 ::::Wow Andy, you should use that statement as an example in a Conservapedia article entitled "Non sequitur". [[User:CasparRH|CasparRH]] 15:43, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
 ==Proposed table entry==
 {| class="wikitable sortable"

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	:Suppose a nation converted to gay marriage 1 day before the Olympics began? Prorating the time makes more sense.--[[User:Aschlafly\|Andy Schlafly]] 12:57, 19 June 2013 (EDT)		:Suppose a nation converted to gay marriage 1 day before the Olympics began? Prorating the time makes more sense.--[[User:Aschlafly\|Andy Schlafly]] 12:57, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
		+
		+	::But that isn't the case; it was 3 years, not one day. You haven't pro-rated Spain and they legalized gay marriage before Canada did. You argue that Norway's performance declined because of gay marriage, and they only legalized it in 2009. We'd need more data points before we could come up with much evidence of anything. If we look only at the countries which have participated in more than one Olympics since legalizing Gay Marriage, and take the averages from before and after, we have slightly more reliable figures. The Netherlands and Belgium have been in 3, and Canada has been in 2. If we average out the medal counts of the 3 Olympics before and after gay marriage and the first two, and the two before and after with Canada, we get even more inconclusive results. Canada improves: averaging 13 in the 2 before gay marriage and 18 in the 2 after. Netherlands basically stays even, with an average of 19.66 in the 3 before and 19.33 in the 3 after (even this is partly due to the Netherlands having their best year ever in 2000, which is a little bit of an anomaly the exaggerates your results). Belgium does significantly worse, going from an average of 5 in the 3 before and 2.66 in the 3 after. They have few medals historically, so their numbers won't mean as much, having such a small sample size. Their numbers are also somewhat exaggerated as they had banner years in 1996 and 2000, the former being their best year since the 1940s, so the last 3 Olympics are looking a bit like a reversion to the mean.
		+	::Since not all medals are equal, and gold is obviously better than bronze, we can examine weighted results as well, by counting bronze as 1, silver as 2, and gold as 3. This actually doesn't vary the results much. Canada goes from an average of 23.5 to 29, Netherlands goes from 38.33 to 37.33 (still basically the same, the difference of a single bronze medal; not statistically significant), and Belgium goes from 8.66 to 4.66.
		+	::If we look at the Winter Olympics averages, which presumably would be affected as well, we actually see improvement in these multiple-sampled countries. Netherlands goes from 6.33 to 8.33 (12.33 to 17.66 weighted), and Canada goes from 16 to 25 (33 to 54.5, weighted). Belgium has only one Bronze in any of the past 4 Olympics, and that was before gay marriage, so they go from .5 to 0, which again, isn't statistically meaningful. We'll have more data points next year, which should help figuring out if this hypothesis is true. [[User:BarryN\|BarryN]] 15:38, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

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	::Okay, makes sense, just thought I would clarify. Thanks for the lightning fast response by the way, is there anything wrong with my little clean up of the page? [[User:JAnderson\|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson\|Anderson]] 09:55, 19 June 2013 (EDT)		::Okay, makes sense, just thought I would clarify. Thanks for the lightning fast response by the way, is there anything wrong with my little clean up of the page? [[User:JAnderson\|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson\|Anderson]] 09:55, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
		+
		+	:::Please do improve the entry!--[[User:Aschlafly\|Andy Schlafly]] 13:04, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

	== Canada's years ==		== Canada's years ==

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	I fail to see why 2008 is counted (even partially) as pre-gay marriage, when it became law in 2005. This isn't done for any other country. Seems like cherry picking data to me. Ideally we'd average about 3 years before and 3 years after (if there are enough, in most cases there won't be enough samples for quite some time), but averaging one pre- and one post- to the first number doesn't make any sense. [[User:BarryN\|BarryN]] 11:36, 19 June 2013 (EDT)		I fail to see why 2008 is counted (even partially) as pre-gay marriage, when it became law in 2005. This isn't done for any other country. Seems like cherry picking data to me. Ideally we'd average about 3 years before and 3 years after (if there are enough, in most cases there won't be enough samples for quite some time), but averaging one pre- and one post- to the first number doesn't make any sense. [[User:BarryN\|BarryN]] 11:36, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
		+
		+	:Suppose a nation converted to gay marriage 1 day before the Olympics began? Prorating the time makes more sense.--[[User:Aschlafly\|Andy Schlafly]] 12:57, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

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	::Okay, makes sense, just thought I would clarify. Thanks for the lightning fast response by the way, is there anything wrong with my little clean up of the page? [[User:JAnderson\|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson\|Anderson]] 09:55, 19 June 2013 (EDT)		::Okay, makes sense, just thought I would clarify. Thanks for the lightning fast response by the way, is there anything wrong with my little clean up of the page? [[User:JAnderson\|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson\|Anderson]] 09:55, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
		+
		+	== Canada's years ==
		+
		+	I fail to see why 2008 is counted (even partially) as pre-gay marriage, when it became law in 2005. This isn't done for any other country. Seems like cherry picking data to me. Ideally we'd average about 3 years before and 3 years after (if there are enough, in most cases there won't be enough samples for quite some time), but averaging one pre- and one post- to the first number doesn't make any sense. [[User:BarryN\|BarryN]] 11:36, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

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	:No, I don't think so, unless the player has a relatively low field goal percentage, as Kobe Bryant does compared with the best players.--[[User:Aschlafly\|Andy Schlafly]] 09:48, 19 June 2013 (EDT)		:No, I don't think so, unless the player has a relatively low field goal percentage, as Kobe Bryant does compared with the best players.--[[User:Aschlafly\|Andy Schlafly]] 09:48, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
		+
		+	::Okay, makes sense, just thought I would clarify. Thanks for the lightning fast response by the way, is there anything wrong with my little clean up of the page? [[User:JAnderson\|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson\|Anderson]] 09:55, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

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 One of the key points in the answer to the Durant question is that he scored a bucketload of points. While he indeed did, the question emphasises '''selfless''' play. Would selfless play be better indicated by assists and not points? [[User:JAnderson|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson|Anderson]] 09:44, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
-== The Durant question ==
+:No, I don't think so, unless the player has a relatively low field goal percentage, as Kobe Bryant does compared with the best players.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 09:48, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
-−
-One of the key points in the answer to the Durant question is that he scored a bucketload of points. While he indeed did, the question emphasises '''selfless''' play. Would selfless play be better indicated by assists and not points? [[User:JAnderson|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson|Anderson]] 09:45, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

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	One of the key points in the answer to the Durant question is that he scored a bucketload of points. While he indeed did, the question emphasises '''selfless''' play. Would selfless play be better indicated by assists and not points? [[User:JAnderson\|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson\|Anderson]] 09:44, 19 June 2013 (EDT)		One of the key points in the answer to the Durant question is that he scored a bucketload of points. While he indeed did, the question emphasises '''selfless''' play. Would selfless play be better indicated by assists and not points? [[User:JAnderson\|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson\|Anderson]] 09:44, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
		+
		+	== The Durant question ==
		+
		+	One of the key points in the answer to the Durant question is that he scored a bucketload of points. While he indeed did, the question emphasises '''selfless''' play. Would selfless play be better indicated by assists and not points? [[User:JAnderson\|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson\|Anderson]] 09:45, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

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	:Superb point about how the host nation wins more medals almost automatically.--[[User:Aschlafly\|Andy Schlafly]] 20:36, 19 August 2012 (EDT)		:Superb point about how the host nation wins more medals almost automatically.--[[User:Aschlafly\|Andy Schlafly]] 20:36, 19 August 2012 (EDT)
		+
		+	== The Durant question ==
		+
		+	One of the key points in the answer to the Durant question is that he scored a bucketload of points. While he indeed did, the question emphasises '''selfless''' play. Would selfless play be better indicated by assists and not points? [[User:JAnderson\|Jacob]] [[User talk:Anderson\|Anderson]] 09:44, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

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	Comparing medals from last olympics and expecting a country to get the same amount at the next olympics is pretty futile and a pointless exercise for a number of reasons. The biggest reason why it is pointless is due to the retirement of older and successful medal winning athletes and the emergence of the new generation of athletes in that sport. This is one of the main reasons why australia didn't win as many medals in 2012 as it did in 2008. The non swimming medal tally was pretty much the same, however the swimming team is going through a major generational change with a lot of the great athletes from 2008 retiring (or retiring and then failing to come back) that generation of swimming talent was a bit of a "bumper crop" similiar to what you have with phelps and locte. There was also a fair number of athletes who had ongoing injury concerns which doesn't help but that does happen in every team.Funding is also a big factor as olympic sport has got to the level that if you don't put large resources into your athletes your not going to have a very big chance at rating in the top 5 in an event. The funding for althletes in a lot of european countries from both the government and the private sector has dried up due to the economic conditions. Spain did really well considering this however thier performance in rio is likely to suffer as funding is unlikely to increase. For example the womens 6m team from spain that won gold, barely made it to the olympics as there was bugger all funding for it. --Nacacube 09:20, 15 August 2012 (EDT)--[[User:Nacacube\|Nacacube]] 23:41, 15 August 2012 (EDT)		Comparing medals from last olympics and expecting a country to get the same amount at the next olympics is pretty futile and a pointless exercise for a number of reasons. The biggest reason why it is pointless is due to the retirement of older and successful medal winning athletes and the emergence of the new generation of athletes in that sport. This is one of the main reasons why australia didn't win as many medals in 2012 as it did in 2008. The non swimming medal tally was pretty much the same, however the swimming team is going through a major generational change with a lot of the great athletes from 2008 retiring (or retiring and then failing to come back) that generation of swimming talent was a bit of a "bumper crop" similiar to what you have with phelps and locte. There was also a fair number of athletes who had ongoing injury concerns which doesn't help but that does happen in every team.Funding is also a big factor as olympic sport has got to the level that if you don't put large resources into your athletes your not going to have a very big chance at rating in the top 5 in an event. The funding for althletes in a lot of european countries from both the government and the private sector has dried up due to the economic conditions. Spain did really well considering this however thier performance in rio is likely to suffer as funding is unlikely to increase. For example the womens 6m team from spain that won gold, barely made it to the olympics as there was bugger all funding for it. --Nacacube 09:20, 15 August 2012 (EDT)--[[User:Nacacube\|Nacacube]] 23:41, 15 August 2012 (EDT)
		+	: Which is why you look at long-term trends. I agree that one Olympics' worth of data for two countries is pretty much useless. It will take more data to prove or disprove the theory. [[User:Gregkochuconn\|Gregkochuconn]] 18:15, 21 August 2012 (EDT)

	== Medal weighting ==		== Medal weighting ==