Difference between revisions of "Debate:If most Muslims learned their religion from their parents, just like us Christians, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?"

Revision as of 13:35, April 4, 2007

If most Muslims learned their religion from their parents, just like us Christians, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?

Nothing

Human beings have no power to save souls. God has the power to save souls. Teresita 09:24, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Of course, but don't you believe we have the duty to evangelize? Aren't we commanded to convert others to Christian faith? --Madonna 10:09, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

I suppose they're just like Buddists, Confuscians, Hindus, Jews, Christians, Jains, Pagans, etc. People almost never abandon their faith. You might not appreciate it if some Muslims tried to convince you that Jesus was a fraud and that you'd go to hell unless you converted to Islam. Why would they accept a Christian doing that to them? Czolgolz 09:53, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Who says any one religion is the right one for everyone to follow? A good Christian would accept their religion and faith as their own beliefs and not persecute them for believing in something different. "Save their souls" <-- that's almost a laughable statement. Jrssr5 10:26, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

I think something should be said to the fact that they still believe in the same God it's just called by a different name Allah.

Some of these comments do not hold up to what the Bible says. Jesus said "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20) MountainDew 22:42, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

I think all should just honestly leave well enough alone. Religion belongs as a private matter.-AmesG_yo! 22:43, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Religion is the bond between God and his creations. We are expected to worship Him. As believers, we have an obligation to those less-fortunate who have been suckered into praising false idols. Altruism is expected, and to sweep it away as an invasion of privacy is offensive. --Rustyjd07 22:45, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Aaaaaaaaand that's what led to the Crusades. Super.-AmesG_yo! 22:49, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Let's set the record straight. There was nothing wrong with the first crusade - that went well. As for all the others, well, that was a result of poor tactics and inadequate devotion of resources. Children?! They just can't fight the spawn of Satan as well as one would think. --Rustyjd07 22:53, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Phew, you're being sarcastic.-AmesG_yo! 22:54, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Salvation requires grace. Grace comes exclusively from God and is defined as unearned favor. On must remember, however, that God is just. The God I believe in, for example, would not subject the souls of aborted babies to eternal torture simply because they never dotted the i's and crossed the t's and "accepted Christ". This same principle of justice would apply to people who lived in America before Columbus, for example, or for the Muslim woman who grew up in Yemen and was installed in a harem at age 14 where she lived in isolation until her death at age 49 never hearing the gospel. Teresita 09:35, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Shouldn't you convert to their religion?

Hah, I find this discussion amusing. It acknowledges that basically, your religious beliefs, if any, are inspired by what your parents and countrymen believe, yet there is still the tacit assumption that Christianity is the correct religion. Don't you ever wonder that, just possibly, if there is a God, it isn't the one you're worshipping, and you're in deep, deep trouble spiritually. There have been literally thousands of different religions and cults throughout history. Yours just happens to be popular at this point.

Personally, if there has to be a God, or pantheon of Gods, I'm banking on the Norse. The whole thing has the ring of revealed truth to me, it's definitely how Gods would behave if they existed. --Abrown 22:52, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Of course I've considered it, but decided on Christianity. The Bible has the power of predictive prophecy in its favor, such as the messianic prophecies. MountainDew 22:54, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

You know that all those prophecies were re-analyzed ex post, right? -AmesG_yo! 22:55, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

In that case, why Christianity and not Judaism? According to the Catholics, Jews are all going to hell. Even religions with the same God are damning each other to the nether regions for all eternity. Most Christians I've asked this of tend to say they feel moved by the spirit, or some such. This always strikes me as a circular argument. Why do you believe, because the spirit moves me. Why doesn't it move me too, then? Because you don't believe. --Abrown 23:11, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

I've heard that claim, but do not personally believe it. MountainDew 22:57, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Good argument. With reasoning like that, nobody should believe it. --Rustyjd07 22:58, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

That's cool. Faith is faith.-AmesG_yo! 22:58, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, somewhere down the line you have to come to the decision to believe or not one way or the other. MountainDew 23:00, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

See, I think MountainDew's point here is very legitimate. It goes to my whole feelings on "creation science." If you believe creationism, but admit that it's just on faith, that's cool. Just when YECs push creationism into science, or the public sphere, and outside of the realm of private faith... that gets me angry. And you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. But personal faith is unassailable, because it's just that - personal.-AmesG_yo! 23:01, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

That's a fair point of disagreement. I'm still of the philosophy that if something makes sense - you can intelligently explain it. If it doesn't make sense, you shouldn't believe it. --Rustyjd07 23:02, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

You assume that the truth will necessarily make sense? --BenjaminS 23:12, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

And you have to use good arguments. For instance, "the fact that the earth is young proves the Bible"... don't think so. MountainDew 23:04, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Fair, Rusty, I guess it's just that I adamantly believe that personal faith isn't my business until it encroaches on others' faith. It's informed by my understanding of the Establishment Clause, and founder's intent, et al. This also explains my entire presence on this site: I don't want to prove to people that creationism is WRONG - I just want them to admit that it's personal faith, nothing more, nothing less, and that that's okay.-AmesG_yo! 23:06, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

There is no such thing as an article of faith or belief that doesn't affect other people. If a person believes something, it informs every decision they make. One might argue that some beliefs, such as Christianity, are beneficial or harmless, but not that one can practice Christianity without effect on those around you. If nothing else, it tends to affect the freedom of religion of any children they might have. --Abrown 23:40, 3 April 2007 (EDT)