Difference between revisions of "Debate:If most Muslims learned their religion from their parents, just like us Christians, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?"

Latest revision as of 01:02, September 15, 2011

If most Muslims learned their religion from their parents, just like us Christians, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?

Nothing

We dont need to be saved...Thanks for the offer though

Human beings have no power to save souls. God has the power to save souls. Teresita 09:24, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Of course, but don't you believe we have the duty to evangelize? Aren't we commanded to convert others to Christian faith? --Madonna 10:09, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

I suppose they're just like Buddists, Confuscians, Hindus, Jews, Christians, Jains, Pagans, etc. People almost never abandon their faith. You might not appreciate it if some Muslims tried to convince you that Jesus was a fraud and that you'd go to hell unless you converted to Islam. Why would they accept a Christian doing that to them? Czolgolz 09:53, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Who says any one religion is the right one for everyone to follow? A good Christian would accept their religion and faith as their own beliefs and not persecute them for believing in something different. "Save their souls" <-- that's almost a laughable statement. Jrssr5 10:26, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

This is Conservapedia. Writing about things from a Christian perspective is one of its aims. - BornAgainBrit

I thought writing about things from a conservative perspective was one of its aims? There are liberal Christians, just like there are conservative Atheists.--Charlesincharge 01:45, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

I think something should be said to the fact that they still believe in the same God it's just called by a different name Allah.

Some of these comments do not hold up to what the Bible says. Jesus said "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20) MountainDew 22:42, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

I think all should just honestly leave well enough alone. Religion belongs as a private matter.-AmesG_yo! 22:43, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Religion is the bond between God and his creations. We are expected to worship Him. As believers, we have an obligation to those less-fortunate who have been suckered into praising false idols. Altruism is expected, and to sweep it away as an invasion of privacy is offensive. --Rustyjd07 22:45, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Aaaaaaaaand that's what led to the Crusades. Super.-AmesG_yo! 22:49, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Let's set the record straight. There was nothing wrong with the first crusade - that went well. As for all the others, well, that was a result of poor tactics and inadequate devotion of resources. Children?! They just can't fight the spawn of Satan as well as one would think. --Rustyjd07 22:53, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Phew, you're being sarcastic.-AmesG_yo! 22:54, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

The only true difference between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is a sharp disagreement over who God’s last true prophet was. If you are a Jew, it is one of those Old Testament dudes. If you are a Christian, it was Jesus Christ, if you are a Muslim, Mohammed was the last true prophet. I’m not counting all the other offshoots of the major religions of course. For example, I think the Mormons would consider Joseph Smith a prophet, whereas other Christian denominations do not. Dw1237200

I believe that all we can do is try. God did not tell us to do his part of the equation for Him, he told us to just do what He asked of us and that He would take care of the rest.--JonL 10:13, 3 December 2007 (EST)

Shouldn't you convert to their religion?

Hah, I find this discussion amusing. It acknowledges that basically, your religious beliefs, if any, are inspired by what your parents and countrymen believe, yet there is still the tacit assumption that Christianity is the correct religion. Don't you ever wonder that, just possibly, if there is a God, it isn't the one you're worshipping, and you're in deep, deep trouble spiritually. There have been literally thousands of different religions and cults throughout history. Yours just happens to be popular at this point.

Personally, if there has to be a God, or pantheon of Gods, I'm banking on the Norse. The whole thing has the ring of revealed truth to me, it's definitely how Gods would behave if they existed. --Abrown 22:52, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Of course I've considered it, but decided on Christianity. The Bible has the power of predictive prophecy in its favor, such as the messianic prophecies. MountainDew 22:54, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

You know that all those prophecies were re-analyzed ex post, right? -AmesG_yo! 22:55, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

In that case, why Christianity and not Judaism? According to the Catholics, Jews are all going to hell. Even religions with the same God are damning each other to the nether regions for all eternity. Most Christians I've asked this of tend to say they feel moved by the spirit, or some such. This always strikes me as a circular argument. Why do you believe, because the spirit moves me. Why doesn't it move me too, then? Because you don't believe. --Abrown 23:11, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

WOW, I'm just wondering if you are a Catholic? If you are, you are seriously misguided about the views of the Church, if not, the same rule applies. Catholics (myself included) DO NOT belive that all, cited from the Catechism

The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

[1]

That is the true Catholic doctrine.The Christian faith has two lines of thought, either the Muslims are just like us or they are going to Hell. The Catholic church likes to take a middle ground. Men with much more time on their hands and many more religious texts have thought of this for years years since the time of Christ himself. My personal belief is that the Christian faith is the one true path to salvation, but if you are not a Christian it does not mean God abandoned you. I think that those of other faiths who try to live their lives loving each other as themselves can be saved because God is forgiving. It seems that the Catholic Church backs that up with its statements. BUT NEVERTHELESS I AM NOT GOD, SALVATION IS HIS DECISION.

--CRD 00:05, 19 July 2007 (EDT)

Also, please read this article [2] The statement is not mine so I will merely link to it. It shows an interesting insight into many teachings of the Quran. This is a post script but is has me baffled. PLEASE READ

I've heard that claim, but do not personally believe it. MountainDew 22:57, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Good argument. With reasoning like that, nobody should believe it. --Rustyjd07 22:58, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

That's cool. Faith is faith.-AmesG_yo! 22:58, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, somewhere down the line you have to come to the decision to believe or not one way or the other. MountainDew 23:00, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

See, I think MountainDew's point here is very legitimate. It goes to my whole feelings on "creation science." If you believe creationism, but admit that it's just on faith, that's cool. Just when YECs push creationism into science, or the public sphere, and outside of the realm of private faith... that gets me angry. And you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. But personal faith is unassailable, because it's just that - personal.-AmesG_yo! 23:01, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

That's a fair point of disagreement. I'm still of the philosophy that if something makes sense - you can intelligently explain it. If it doesn't make sense, you shouldn't believe it. --Rustyjd07 23:02, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

You assume that the truth will necessarily make sense? --BenjaminS 23:12, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

And you have to use good arguments. For instance, "the fact that the earth is young proves the Bible"... don't think so. MountainDew 23:04, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Fair, Rusty, I guess it's just that I adamantly believe that personal faith isn't my business until it encroaches on others' faith. It's informed by my understanding of the Establishment Clause, and founder's intent, et al. This also explains my entire presence on this site: I don't want to prove to people that creationism is WRONG - I just want them to admit that it's personal faith, nothing more, nothing less, and that that's okay.-AmesG_yo! 23:06, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

There is no such thing as an article of faith or belief that doesn't affect other people. If a person believes something, it informs every decision they make. One might argue that some beliefs, such as Christianity, are beneficial or harmless, but not that one can practice Christianity without effect on those around you. If nothing else, it tends to affect the freedom of religion of any children they might have. --Abrown 23:40, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

I have no problem being a Christian, but I don't feel a duty to evangilize. I think people's religions are a relative matter. Besides, I think that if God was truly just, he wouldn't damn people to hell because humans failed to convert them. What if there was someone who never had a missionary come and tell him about Christianity? Does he go to Hell by mere circumstances of his birth? That's also not even taking into account I don't really see Hell and Satan and literal entities, but non withstanding, even if they are, I don't think God would do something like that.--Elamdri 15:13, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Why?

Why would you try to convert someone, and what makes you think they need saving? No one should stick their nose in other peoples bussiness to try to mess stuff up.AtheistKathryn 23:25, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

It's sorta an evangelical belief from what I understand.--Elamdri 23:48, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Because, while they dont realise it as long as they live, they will be extremally thankful for it afterwards. The new testament is very clear on this: There is only one route to salvation, and that is Christ. - BornAgainBrit.

We install huge, huge, speakers the size of a Hummer (That's grotesquely huge), all over the Persian/Arabian land and then...we pump out good ole' SOUL beats...Marvin Gaye, you know what I'm talking about?--Markos88 22:38, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

I don't know exactly what sub-category to put this under, but "why" seems closest. I don't see why people can believe that people will be forgiven if there lack of faith is through no fault of their own, and say that atheism does not fall under this category. The way I see it, atheists do not see the Bible as the word of God, it is through no fault of their own. There are so many valid arguments against the idea that make perfectly logical sense, and supports the idea that there is no reason to believe that what Christians believe, that the bible is the word of God and that god exists as stated by the bible, is true. Basic logic tells us that not to be Christian or believe in the bible and a Christian God is perfectly justified. And before anybody says that is because God is providing us with valid reasons not to follow the scriptures as a test of our faith, why on earth are atheists punishable for being convinced by overwhelming evidence which God himself (you say) is intentionally convincing them is valid? How is reasonably not following God any fault of their own when God himself is reasoning with them not to follow Him? For example, Atheists pose the question: Isn't God, by not showing us incontrovertibly that He is real, condemning millions to hell who would otherwise convert? Time after time I hear fellow Christians answer: Because he is testing our faith, and giving us the free will to make the choice for ourselves because you know the bible exists and are therefore accountable etc. But I still believe that this question is totally valid and this answer is weak. Surely, in the case of the atheists question, if God does not prove to them, atheists, agnostics, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, even primitive tribes, then He is giving them perfectly reasonable grounds to believe that the Christian answer is not the case, and he is in fact simply not there. To me, this seems like an unarguably relevant possibility. I believe that the only reason that we believe He is there is because we choose to accept the axiom that God exists and the Bible is the word of God. Regardless of our individual spiritual reasons for following the Bible, disregard that axiom (as God allows Atheists justified reasoning to do) and there is little other reason. If Atheism is wrong, then just like any other view on religion it cannot be held accountable or punishable. Am I wrong? vonfalkenhayn 23:02 30 April 2009 (EST)