Difference between revisions of "Debate:Is Scientology a false religion?"

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Oh yes!

Scientology is some science fiction writer wanting to be remembered. It is all made up.

No

Not false as its own religion. False as a Christian religion. It's not a threat to Christians. Christians already have their Bible of Old and New Testaments. Maybe this is why some consider themselves Christians and yet aren't following anything taught by Christ's original Disciples. But I wouldn't count that as a threat.--Roopilots6 18:08, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

—Matthew 7:16-20

"Not false as it's own religion?" What does that mean. Scientology conflicts with Christianity. They cannot both be true. So, if Christianity is true, this means Scientology must be false. It is a false religion - and beyond false, it is also dangerous as it distracts people from the truth and lures them from God. It is the duty of Christians to fight false religions. Just because they are small does not mean they can be tolerated. - NewCrusader

Apart from a litigious attitude toward public criticism of Scientology, I'm not personally aware of Scientologists as having done anything terrible. Dpbsmith 18:58, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Really? Operation Snow White? Lisa McPherson? There are many others. Scientology kills. Tmtoulouse 19:21, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Huh? I've never heard of these ... could you explain what these are? Jrssr5 14:42, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

Operation Freakout: Paullet Cooper wrote a critical book on Scientology, the church attempts to plant false evidence to get her convicted of federal crimes. Operation Snowhite: Scientologist infiltrate the IRS to destroy documents about the church and find information on critics, Hubbards wife and 17 others are convicted and sent to jail. Hubbard himself has been convicted of fraud at a Federal level. The Lisa McPherson story is complicated and told elsewhere if you google it, essentially the church was at the VERY least complicit in her death, if not the out and out cause of it. There are MANY more examples. Tmtoulouse 14:49, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

Check out their fair game policy. Tmtoulouse 14:51, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

It's no more preposterous than any other religion. [stubbstarbuck]] 18:59, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

Whaddya mean, religion? Try, "is Scientology a thriving cult of greed and power that gives all religious movements a bad name, and I'll say yes. The premises of the question are false. User:Cthx

Scientology is no more of a threat to Christianity than Christianity is to Scientology. I'm sure the Scientologists view Christians as blasphemous and ridiculously ignorant, just as you do them. You can't just assume that you're right and everyone else is wrong. [User:Tegan]

No religion is false. It is not possible to prove the existance of a higher power, nor is it possible to disprove. Just because a religion is not of Christian beliefs doesn't mean its false. If this were the case, that would make Judaism a false religion, because it doesn't believe Jesus was the son of God. I believe in God, and am a Christian. I say that to avoid being called an aethist, which I am not. Anyway, people are aloud to believe what they want (if it is within the legal boundaries of the nations law, i.e. human sacrifice religions are illegal) even if it is really crazy in others opinions. And how are they a threat to Christianity? Could someone explain that? --Unforgiven 19:58, 17 February 2008 (EST)

"No religion is false. It is not possible to prove the existance of a higher power." -- But Scientologists don't belive in any higher power. There is no god or supernatural entity in the mythology; there is no figure of moral authority or any entity responsible for creation. Xenu, the most prominent figure of evil, is a physically-existing non-supernatural being, an alien emperor. Thetans are not supernatural either, as Scientologists themselves claim their e-meters physically detect them. So "it can't be proven" doesn't apply here. MrGrieves 15:12, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

I believe that Scientology doesn't have a God. Nor something to worship (Except maybe Hubbard). So it can't be a false religion. -- GordonF 23:32, 14 March 2009

Yes, but..

I certainly believe their beliefs to be false, but what is important is that others see the facts and decide for themselves. As the Scientologists say, we should chose to believe or not. Why do they feel a need to obscure their beliefs with law suits?--JoyousOne 19:05, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Yes, but all religions are false in that they attempt to have you believe in something that does not exist. Scientology does have a sinister element that other religions lack. Other faiths have their elements (TV preachers for example) that seek to bilk the faithful out of their money. Scientology does this, and they do target their enemies--1048247 14:58, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

The misdeeds of a few should not condemn the faith of the many. In Scientology, it seems the whole idea is corrupt, unlike Christianity.--JoyousOne 15:15, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

Christianity teaches that all animals that weren't in a big boat died when it rained a lot. People take this literally. Can you really say this indicates a lack of corruption? --JeffersonDarcy 15:17, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

The fact that some Christians take the story of the flood literally does not indicate that they are corrupt. It does indicate an appaling lack of intellect.--1048247 15:23, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

Just because you can't see doesn't mean there is no God. Atheists are fools with their own holiday, fools day. Do you believe that we live in a world that has wind? Where is it, I can't see it, must not be there, it is false. Nothing brings itself from non-being into being. --jp 18:00, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes, scientology is a false religion because it was just a religion created by a sci-fi writer to make money. I think that scientology is harmful to Christianity because it can confuse would be Christians into believing the teachings of scientology. AdrianP 00:55, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

Wind cannot be seen but it can be felt. All Scientologists left their religion to join. It is only harmful for those who are uneducated. Scientology is not just some little thing made up to help people. They are a terribly corrupt organization that charges you money to learn their doctrines and history. Everybody needs to learn the dark truth of Scientology. The only time a religion becomes harmful is when it teaches to hate. -- GordonF 23:40, 14 March 2009

How can one religion ever be a threat to another religion short of physically forcing conversion? If the teachings of your religion are sound, and they bring hope and peace to the followers another religion won't tempt them. Its like a man thinking that every other man out there constitutes a threat to his marriage because he might lure his wife away. If the marriage is strong, she won't leave. -gasmonkey

Yes, no buts.. Scientology is a bunch of rubbish unless you believe in outerspace aliens, that live in our bodies and control our minds. The tyranny of the galactic God Xenu and his evil body thetans.--jp 17:41, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

How is that no buts? You just said that if you believe in that stuff then it's not rubbish. Just because you find it silly, doesn't mean that your neighbor does too. Jrssr5 10:48, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Yes, Scientology is a false religion, no buts about it. Unless of course, your neighbor believes in it, then it is an actual religion, praise Xenu. Just playing with words, do you not find it cute?--jp 15:39, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Any religion appears weird if you weren't raised with it. - MiddleMan

Uh... then how do you explain conversions (Muslim to Christian, for example)? - User:JCasto

Or the other way round for that matter, I think that more Christians convert to Muslims than vice versa. No data, just the impression from certain high profile conversions like Muhammed Ali or Yusuf Islam. The problem is that religion is not based on logic but on emotion. If someone is brought up in a certain faith and they are not getting what they need from it then they will look for something else. Sometimes it is a wholesale conversion, othertimes it is supplementing with other beliefs; such as Nancy Reagan with astrology. Being a psychological thing it is very difficult to explain any of it. How does one explain the Mormon church or Islam? They only exist through the word an individual (no offence intended). Sufficiently charismatic people can persuade others to do things, or believe things that they might not otherwise do. Some of it can be explained but charlatans prefer that it is not so they can dupe the gullible. Anyone want to buy a bridge in London? Ian St John 19:26, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

That's different, Islam and Christianity have the same roots and share a number of basic beliefs, furthermore their followers are aware of each other's existence from a very young age, while many people only hear about scientology in their teens.

MiddleMan

There is a verified quote by Hubbard who said "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."

As the story goes, Heinlein and Hubbard were sitting in a bar one night with a bunch of other SF authors. The bet theory goes that RAH and LRH made a bet as to who could start a religion. According to this theory Stranger in a Strange Land was Heinlein's entry to the bet, and Dianetics was Hubbard's. One of those authors was Harlan Ellison - a transcript of his interview in the '70s adds some background to the bet theory Harlan Ellison website (warning, contains foul language). This may well be urban legend, but I'm inclined to believe it to have more truth than fiction.

That said, the idea behind Scientology is one that closely mirrors Gnostic beliefs - Hubbard drew from history for his material. An interesting book to read on the subject is The Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew[1] which goes into some of the gnostic beliefs of some sects of early Christianity. The parallels between Scientology and early gnostic Christianity are very strong.

Within Scientology, you have the full range of people who practice - as you do in any religion. You have those who are trying to find meaning in their life. You have those trying to make money. You have those who are trying to convert/save others.

While the origins of Scientology are debateably monetarily inclined, there are people for whom it gives a direction in life. To that extent, Scientology is an institutionalized system of attitudes, beliefs, and practices and it is an honest religion for some people. I don't believe it was conceived as such originally. --Mtur 19:31, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

What ever you say Mtur, I love your parallels connection, says much about you. Maybe you can start some Conservapedia entries then. You know what else is an honest religion? Waking up at the same time everyday. Taking a whiz and a shower. Getting dressed for the day ahead. I believe it will start this way. I adjust my attitude and put into practice. Scientology, A religion? Cult --jp 21:55, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

Let see... claims to be a religion. Demands money from its followers. Viciously attacks all who speak negatively of it, including some high-profile journalists. Absolutly rediculous core doctrine (Xenu the galactic ruler?). Shadey origins. Clearly for-profit. Secretive internal workings. Frequent accusations of illegal activities, some of which have resulted in convictions. Sounds like a cult to me. And a quite dangerous one, by some accounts - remember, Scientologists are required to reject the use of conventional medications. There was even one case where an epileptic joined the church and was told he didn't really need his anti-seisure medication. He died not long after, as a direct result of his refusal to take said medication. - BornAgainBrit

BornAgainBrit all your accusations against scientologist also are mirrored in christianity especially in the south. Clearly for profit-pick a TV preacher Secretive Internal workings-come on do i really even have to address this matter? Frequent accusations of illegal activities- priests. Many christian sects are required to reject modern medicine. If scientology is a cult that so is every religion on the face of the earth.

When a religous profite is a fiction writer that never intended to create a religion, thats a sign of a fake religion.

Yes, clearly scientology is a false religion. #1 it is not a religion, it is more of a cult. What god do scientologists believe in? To my knowledge they do not believe in a god but more in a supernatural power, but not specifically a "god". Without a god it cannot be a religon.

Isn't god nothing more than a supernatural power beyond our full understanding? You don't need the traditional view of God for it to be a religion, just a shared set of spiritual and moral values. Anything negative that can be said about the basic belief structure of Scientology can really be applied to almost any religion today.

Ok, so Scientologies a cult based on these things apparently: They demand money from followers, they viciously attack people who speak negagtivley about their religion, are not allowed to take conventional meds, and are accused of illegal activties with accasionall convictions. How many evangelical pastors Italic textdon't demand money from people, and just from looking at this website its obvious that Christians attack anyone who is critical of theyre religion. And how many times have I heard about "the healing power of faith" on tv. And lets not forget the boy touching priests. Here's the definition of a cult: A minority group of people who share a set of beliefs.--Unforgiven 20:14, 17 February 2008 (EST)

I dont know if anyone else see's this...or if I am just looney, but here goes. For the last 80 years these has been a rise in information about various secret societies taking control of governments under the title of Illuminati. The sole purpose of this society is control. World wide control, everyone in america has heard of the "new world order"...if you havent look on the one dollar bill...below the pyramid with the all seeing eye in latin it say "new world order". Now part of this groups agenda is to do away with the belief in God, and introduce a one world religion absent of God. Since Americans with and without faith tend to follow the trends of these celebrities and journalist...I suddenly thought that maybe, just maybe, they could be behind this idea as well. I mean they created the Federal Reserve for the purpose of destroying the American economy to create the need of a one world economy. They have been activly removing God from every aspect of goverment and school (in a nation founded under God no less), they created (out of thin air btw) the myth of global warming for the purpose of creating a unified goverment to establish the new world order, even terrorism has been liked to several goverments. Folks I'm not trying to be some scar tactic individual, but this stuff is real. There is one body of super official that is creating most of the problems (wars, attacks, mass murders, scandals, ect..) to steer us all where they want us to be. Look up the Buigerbuilders, the rockefellers, the carnagies, the bushes, the US has NEVER had a president that was not a free mason (illuminati was founded by a sec of the free mason, and much like green peace, was very quickly over run by them). Scientology is a means to end. When the move against the religions based on God, they have to have something to take its place. Evil is not STUPID folks, its brilliant, and if you dont have wisdom, you will fall into that trap. How many politicians make grand promises (with or without intent) and actually follow through? And for Gods sake...why would anyone believe a religion created by a fiction author?? He made his living by telling stories people, then suddenly and without cause, discovered this new path to enlightenment? I dont tell anyone what to think or believe, I just challenge to look at everything you believe because you have bothered to look at it under a microscope, not in a passing glance. Walley12

Definite YES.

Basically, all their babbling about Xenu and similar, utter nonsense makes my head hurt. The founder had a great idea about how to make money: he realized this idea, made a huge load of money, and died a rich man. Is there a lot more to say? Oh, yes, he DID leave a huge mess of a cult behind to trouble our already-more-than-troubled world some more. Gee, thanks. So, I´ll just say YES, with no "But" attached.

It's not true creation because dinosaurs are myths, our earth is flat, and heaven is the clouds.--Edtropolis 16:21, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Exactly. Our story is right because the Bible says it's right, and their story is wrong because they don't have the Bible. Why would you ever want to look deeper than that? Kristkrispies 12:17, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

Yes. It is just as false and liberal as such devious religions as Satanism, Atheism, Arabism, and pro-choicism. Is it simply a coincedence that "science" (which is known to be false, because it opposes The Bible) appears in the word "Scientology"? All Scientologists must be converted to Christianity NOW. --Cranky Joe 14:36, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

Seriously, man we could use some more bigotry to get the point across. The Bible could never be wrong, especially with all of our non-malevolent, non-manipulative human translators and monarchs who have had the good book warped into an evil artifact from a corrupt regime. I dare say Bush might be releasing a similar copy under the title, "Bush Universal Translation: With new words 'n evrytheeng!".Walkebb

It is all summed up in this one quote. "The best way to make money is to create your own religion" - L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology. Look, there is a difference between a religion (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Unitarian Universalism, etc.), and a MONEYMAKING SCAM. PSMax8956 13:20, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

I agree totally with the above. It is a cult and not a true religion. They are basically taking people away from the Gospel.

(PLEASE SIGN YOUR COMMENTS) LOL, how is it not a true religion? and i think that its worse that they are scamming people then that they are taking them away from your religion.-Greenmeanie 22:00, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

Their "machine to measure the soul" is nothing but a pressure indicator. They have lied to many. Deltaepsilon 21:58, 12 November 2012 (EST)

I generally define a cult as

1. They lie about their religious beliefs because they directors themselves know how nutty their beliefs are and that they will dissuade prospective converts. Hence, cults like Scientology lie about their beliefs. Only after a convert joins are they inducted into the real cult.

2. Salvation at a price. If I didn’t put money in that plate on Sunday the priest would still serve me communion. Yet cults like Scientology charge a heavy price for their “therapy” treatments.

Religions proudly profess their message over the hilltops and want to help people because virtue is its own reward not money.

Scientology is generally considered a cult simply because there are so few members. However by my standards a few “mainstream” religions are cults.

Can any religion or cult really be debunked?

To the believer no. To a Scientologist it all makes perfect sense. There would be no evidence proving or disproving their religious/cult beliefs.

To the non-believer yes. Scientology knows just how nutty it is and so it lies about its beliefs. The best course of action is to let the public know what Scientology is really about and let them decide.

(PLEASE SIGN YOUR COMMENTS) and although christianity is free, you are highly pressured to donate money.

Can any religion or cult really be debunked?

To the believer no. To a Christan it all makes perfect sense. There would be no evidence proving or disproving their religious/cult beliefs.

and although virtue is "its own reward" there are alot of people who are religious who are extremely rich (from religion)-Greenmeanie 22:00, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

But Xenu is comming to Kill Us All!!

Beware All! Xenu, in his DC-10 spaceships shall come to end all Human Life, by taking us up in his spaceship, and dumping us in volcanoes. BEWARE!! --User:Capercorn Talk contribs 09:36, 11 November 2007 (EST)

It is only as false as Christianity. --MrSmiley 15:01, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

Didn't Hubbard himself admit he started it over a bar bet? NRupert 14:29, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

unconfirmed, although he might have. But he did say that starting a religion would be a good way to make money-~~

Scientology is a False Religion

Scientology is based on false ideas and was created by Science Fiction author L. Ron Hubbard. His work is nonsense, and the money donated to the so-called "church" by its members is wasteful.Davison 23:34, 14 May 2009 (EDT)

It is a false religion simply for the fact of claiming copyright on the scriptures and filing lawsuits about it. If they would just stop the practice they probably would be able to be considered to be the same level of religion as Hinduism, Islam and the like. ChuckK 19:03, 24 June 2009 (EDT)