Difference between revisions of "Talk:Epistle to the Hebrews (Translated)"

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(13:1: I'll research the origin of the name "Philadelphia" further; anti-Christian bias from internet searching may make the truth harder to find than usual)
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:::My point isn't what his first choice would have been for daily reading, which I will readily concede he most likely did in his native language.  I'm just saying it seems wrong to give the credit for Penn's choosing the name "Philadelphia" to an English translation of that exact word, (a word he was perfectly capable of reading himself) and on that basis give a privileged status to the particular wording of that translation. Your mileage may vary, of course. [[User:DanielPulido|DanielPulido]] 23:13, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
 
:::My point isn't what his first choice would have been for daily reading, which I will readily concede he most likely did in his native language.  I'm just saying it seems wrong to give the credit for Penn's choosing the name "Philadelphia" to an English translation of that exact word, (a word he was perfectly capable of reading himself) and on that basis give a privileged status to the particular wording of that translation. Your mileage may vary, of course. [[User:DanielPulido|DanielPulido]] 23:13, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
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::::You make a valid point.  I'm open-minded about this.  But if, as I suspect, William Penn liked the KJV rendition of "brotherly love" so much that he named Philadelphia after it, then that is both worth knowing and possibly worth preserving.  I'll research the origin of the name "Philadelphia" further; anti-Christian bias from internet searching may make the truth harder to find than usual.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:18, 18 April 2010 (EDT)

Revision as of 21:18, 18 April 2010

Five chapters already done here; that's a great start!--Andy Schlafly 23:49, 3 March 2010 (EST)

13:1

I'm sure Penn was inspired by this verse, but by the original's φιλαδελφία, not the English "brotherly love." "Let brotherly love continue" is a word-for-word translation, but doesn't seem like anything a modern English speaker would say. Paul isn't just praying for some vague abstraction to continue to exist; he is exhorting the Hebrews to love in a particular way. It seems to me better to translate this with active, dynamic language. DanielPulido 21:27, 18 April 2010 (EDT)

I'm not sure William Penn read Greek. Most likely he read the KJV, liked the phrase, and then went back to the Greek. But I welcome any historical analysis about this.
As an aside, what makes you think Paul wrote this Epistle? It's nothing like Paul's style as far as I can tell, and I've worked on Paul's Epistles as well as this one.--Andy Schlafly 22:11, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
My mistake; I've done most of my translating on First Corinthians, and just a tiny bit in Hebrews. I have Paul on the brain as if everything in Greek is all Paul to me! You're quite right; they're stylistically very different, and that was silly of me.
As for Penn, he was classically educated, so he surely wouldn't have needed to rely on the KJV, would he? DanielPulido 22:48, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
He wouldn't have needed to rely on it, but that doesn't mean he didn't choose to rely on it. SamuelC 22:49, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
Right. The KJV was widely and immensely popular. I would expect that to be the volume of first choice by Penn. I'm not sure anyone read the Greek New Testament as his volume of first choice in the English world in 1680. The primary classical text then was the Latin Vulgate, I think.--Andy Schlafly 22:53, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
My point isn't what his first choice would have been for daily reading, which I will readily concede he most likely did in his native language. I'm just saying it seems wrong to give the credit for Penn's choosing the name "Philadelphia" to an English translation of that exact word, (a word he was perfectly capable of reading himself) and on that basis give a privileged status to the particular wording of that translation. Your mileage may vary, of course. DanielPulido 23:13, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
You make a valid point. I'm open-minded about this. But if, as I suspect, William Penn liked the KJV rendition of "brotherly love" so much that he named Philadelphia after it, then that is both worth knowing and possibly worth preserving. I'll research the origin of the name "Philadelphia" further; anti-Christian bias from internet searching may make the truth harder to find than usual.--Andy Schlafly 23:18, 18 April 2010 (EDT)