Talk:'s-Hertogenbosch
Should be merged into some other article, such as The Netherlands. Appears to have been created only because of it's odd spelling: it begins with a punctuation mark. --Ed Poor Talk 14:37, 9 May 2012 (EDT)
- kind of weird to start an article with a punctuation mark well, it's a quirk of the Dutch language: look at The Hague a.k.a. 's Gravenshage, or the 't Hooft operator in theoretical physics. But while Den Haag is the official name of 's Gravenshage, with Den Bosch and 's Hertogenbosch it is the other way around.
- So the move is akin to redirecting New York to The Big Apple.
- And Den Bosch just means The Forest, not The Duke's Forest - Hertog / Herzog is duke. The 's is the relict of the article indicating the genitive: Des Hertogens Bosch
- On the web-site of 's Hertogenbosch, you won't find the informal name Den Bosch prominently on display: http://www.s-hertogenbosch.nl/
- AugustO 14:58, 9 May 2012 (EDT)
- That's too big a task (and too desolate a field, I'm afraid). I'm just correcting errors where I find them. AugustO 15:25, 9 May 2012 (EDT)
- the capital of the province of Noord-Brabant is usually called "Den Bosch," but the full, official name is " 's-Hertogenbosch " (The Duke's Forest.) [1]
- So if you want to mention the official name, go ahead. (Also, it's more like calling the army's main training college "West Point", when it has a longer and more official name that is hardly ever used. It's not like calling New York the Big Apple. I live in New York and hardly ever hear that. Why would you say such and odd and untrue thing? --Ed Poor Talk 15:30, 9 May 2012 (EDT)
- The city's official name is a contraction of the Dutch des Hertogen bosch—"the Duke's forest" (Wikipedia) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ed Poor (talk)
- Indeed, 's-Hertogenbosch is a contraction of des Hertogen bosch. I mentioned that above. AugustO 15:53, 9 May 2012 (EDT)
- Why would you say such and odd and untrue thing? Sorry if I hurt your feeling. My, these New Yorkers are delicate flowers :-)
- When someone talks about the Big Apple, everyone knows that New York is meant. That's neither odd nor untrue. But this moniker is not the official name of the city, or a generally accepted abbreviation.
- Take a look at the official home-page of 's Hertogenbosch: you won't find Den Bosch mentioned. Take a look at the Dutch wikipage of 's Hertogenbosch: the first section is about the name...
- De naam Den Haag is officieel toegestaan. Men ziet die naam op wegwijzers en bij de spoorwegen. Voor Den Bosch ligt dat anders: de enige officiële naam is 's-Hertogenbosch. Ook in andere talen wordt 's-Hertogenbosch met de lange naam aangeduid: Bois-le-Duc in het Frans, Boscoducale in het Italiaans, Bolduque in het Spaans en Herzogenbusch in het Duits. De Latijnse naam is Silva Ducis of Buscum Ducis.
- That means something like
- The name Den Haag is officially accepted. You find this name on road signs and at railways. This is different for Den Bosch: the only official name is 's-Hertogenbosch. In other languages the long name is also used: Bois-le-Duc in French, Boscoducale in Italian, Bolduque in Spanish en Herzogenbusch in German. The Latin name is Silva Ducis or Buscum Ducis.
- BTW, the existence of so many translations of the name are an indicator of the historical importance of the city.
- AugustO 15:51, 9 May 2012 (EDT)
- Supporting AugustO. 's Hertogenbosch is used almost everywhere the official is required, e.g. railway timetables and road signs. But Den Bosch is usually used in informal conversation. PenelopeP 17:29, 9 May 2012 (EDT)
- St Petersburg might be a good parallel. The Russians who live there generally just refer to it as "Peter", or sometimes "Petersburg". But the official name is Saint Petersburg and indeed the Conservapedia article is under that name. It would be confusing to list the article under "Peter"!--CPalmer 05:22, 13 June 2012 (EDT)
- On the other hand, maybe it's more like Hull. In full, the town is Kingston upon Hull, but that is rarely used and even the local council's website just uses Hull. The Conservapedia page is actually entitled Kingston upon Hull, but I think there would be a reasonably strong case for just using Hull, especially if Den Bosch is kept here.--CPalmer 05:28, 13 June 2012 (EDT)
Conversation in Edit Comments
error? what error? This is like moving The United States to United States'
Moving 's Hertogenbosch to Hertogenbosch is akin to moving The United States of America to The United States America - you are losing the genitive. Moving 's Hertogenbosch to Den Bosch is like moving ''The United States of America to States. AugustO 15:57, 9 May 2012 (EDT)
Article move
... could you move this article back to 's-Hertogenbosch? I would have asked you at User talk:Ed Poor, but unfortunately, that page is protected.
AugustO 01:26, 10 May 2012 (EDT)
- I read your objections. Frankly, I took your last comment (touché) as a concession to my objections. Nevertheless, I left the decision to move the article to you, but you really should to it: it's the right thing.
- Does this have anything to do with your decision to put me on probation - an act to which I object. AugustO 12:15, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
- For clarification: I didn't move the content of the article to 's Hertogenbosch - this was another editor. Unfortunately this can't be seen any longer as the edit history of the new article was deleted (somewhat ironic, as Ed Poor stated in his comment on the deletion log that such a thing is a violation of core wiki rule: preserving edit history)
- User:Ed Poor, if you start to threaten editors with blocks and probations, please make sure to address the right ones.
- I'm starting to expect something more than a simple sorry, btw. AugustO 12:25, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
- User:Ed Poor, as long as User talk:Ed Poor is protected, comments like mine above will pop up on various talk-pages, even if they are only marginally related with the subject at hand. I'm for instance still interested in what my first strike was - could you please tell me? AugustO 00:02, 12 June 2012 (EDT)
I actually currently live in `s-Hertogenbosch. Both names are commonly used (in writing the Den Bosch variant is more often used because it's just easier to type), but the official name is `s-Hertogenbosch. A lot of people don't care that much either way, but some take it very seriously indeed. There's a whole committee to promote the proper use of the official name. This is why you won't find the informal name listed on any official sources. --GTac 11:15, 14 June 2012 (EDT)