Talk:Abstinence education

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This is the current revision of Talk:Abstinence education as edited by Bugler (Talk | contribs) at 11:15, December 30, 2008. This URL is a permanent link to this version of this page.

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The link provided as a reference was written in 2000, before the abstinence program went into full effect under the current Adminstration. There have been several scientific studies, and according to the page history, people have poorly tried to put some of that data in there. The article should be updated to reflect the current statistics of its effectiveness.--MarkS 16:35, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm adding some findings from a Fox News story that were released today, but I don't know if they'll be left intact or not because they show that kids who pledge abstinence are just as likely to have sex as those who don't, and unfortunately, when they do have sex they are less likely to use birth control or STD protection. Counter-examples of surveys showing differently would be welcome though. --DinsdaleP 11:38, 29 December 2008 (EST)
That's probably not a good idea, Dinsdale. We wish to promote family-friendly information, not 'surveys' by Big Science advocates who seek to undo national chastity. Bugler 11:42, 29 December 2008 (EST)
I understand your concern, Bugler, and as a parent myself I take this topic very much to heart. However, the point of the survey wasn't to encourage promiscuity, but to point out that abstinence-only education was not an effective means of preventing it. I'll repeat the key insight from the survey:
"It seems that pledgers aren't really internalizing the pledge," Rosenbaum said. "Participating in a program doesn't appear to be motivating them to change their behavior. It seems like abstinence has to come from an individual conviction rather than participating in a program."
If there's a benefit in putting this information out there, it's to alert parents to the fact that if they send their kids to abstinence-only programs, they can't expect that alone to keep their kids from engaging in premarital sex. There needs to be a continuous, open dialogue with one's children and a willingness to discuss birth control. What I saw in this survey is not the hand of big science, but the reality of the Palin family when they relied on abstinence-only education and withholding information about birth control, resulting in a teen pregnancy. Bristol Palin is fortunate to be marrying the child's father and starting a family, but conservatives who are truly motivated to prevent unwanted pregnancy and abortion need to learn from this survey instead of dismissing it. --DinsdaleP 12:04, 29 December 2008 (EST)
I disagree. What is needed is absinence education in a supportive and prayer-filled environment, home and school. Abstinence programmes are not a bolt-on but should be an integral part of school and home life, emphasised by example. Teaching 'alternatives' is the same as endorsing premature sexuality and undermining purity. Absence of classroom prayer may undermine the effectiveness of abstinence teaching in public schools, and this may skew the figures, but it is the lack of prayer that is to blame, not any fault with abstinence teaching. How many homeschoolers, encouraged and nurtured in a caring environment, become pregnant? Bugler 12:10, 29 December 2008 (EST)
I see that my edits regarding the survey have been removed, but I'm not going to start an edit-war by restoring them. What I ask, though, is what constructive answer people here have to the factual findings of the survey, which is that abstinence-only education and pledges don't work. I don't want teen pregnancy or STDs any more than anyone else here, so instead of denying the truth, what would you propose that would actually work, Bugler? --DinsdaleP 12:09, 29 December 2008 (EST)
See above. Bugler 12:10, 29 December 2008 (EST)


I respect your thougts on this Bugler, but I doubt that the parents who chose abstinence-only education are raising their children in homes devoid of prayer, so that leaves homeschooling and school prayer as the proposed solution. The survey data I was able to find doesn't mention breakouts by public versus religious versus homeschool, but in practical terms it doesn't matter. Parents across the country are not going to withdraw all of their kids from public school to homeschool them, and we are not going to see teacher-led prayer in public schools in the forseeable future. So instead of saying that the solution lies in an unrealistic set of ideal circumstances, we need to come up with policies that can realistically be implemented right now so they can have a real-world impact right away. How many times a day would hormonal teens need to pray in school to be deterred from experimenting with sex, and what would you suggest for the summer vacation? The pledge-breakers had an average of three partners over five years, so teaching abstinence didn't deter promiscuity, it just left the kids unprepared to protect themselves, and pregnancies, abortions and STDs were the result. Conservatives have to be honest enough to face uncomfortable truths and come up with better plans than "stay the course" on this one. --DinsdaleP 12:39, 29 December 2008 (EST)

Also, being realistic is not surrendering to non-conservative values. "According to a recent St. Petersburg Times poll, of the nine in 10 Florida voters who agree that the public schools should offer some form of sex eduction, only 8 percent said it should be abstinence-only. Even those respondents who described themselves as evangelical Christians generally thought the education program needed to go beyond abstinence." Saint Petersburg Times Editorial --DinsdaleP 12:52, 29 December 2008 (EST)
The important issue is not what misguided parents may wish, but what God wants, as decreed in the Bible. That is truly what is best for our young people, and that is what we should be supporting on Conservapedia. Bugler 06:15, 30 December 2008 (EST)