Talk:Atheism/archive16

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A Typo

There is a missing space on the first line. Could someone fix it? Thanks! Jehosephat25 12:30, 2 March 2010 (EST)

Please elaborate. conservative 05:11, 24 March 2010 (EDT)

Atheism and Mass Murder

A point to discuss. It is stated that more people were killed under regimes advocating atheism than any theistic regimes. However, taking the examples of the Crusades (in which hundreds of thousands of people were killed on religious grounds) and Stalin's genocide, we see that Stalin did not kill millions upon millions because he wanted them to be Atheist, whereas during the Crusades people were killed for not being Christian. Perhaps a reword is necessary. A. Vogel 15:26, 24 March 2010 (EDT)

Are you communicating with Stalin from "the other side", from Hell, A.Vogel so that you have a clear idea as to why he ordered his mass-killings? I have several questions I would like you to pass on. --ṬK/Admin/Talk 15:51, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
Most definitely not, and believe me, if I could, I surely give him a piece of my mind. I'm simply questioning, with all due respect to the author of the article, if there is any evidence that he did murder in the name of atheism or whether it was based on ethnicity or opposition to his political idealogy. If there is, please provide. A. Vogel 16:08, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
A. Vogel, did Stalin kill anyone who was a theist due to their theism? Any church leaders killed, churches razed, etc? Please elaborate on your post. I do thank you for your input, I just added another footnote in the Conservapedia atheism article in terms of Soviet atheists being involved in the mass religious persecution of religious believers and the mass murders of religious believers. By the way, I am personally not a member of the Roman Catholic faith, but perhaps you might want to dialogue with Roman Catholics about the crusades. conservative 17:19, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
Yes, thousands of churches were razed and many religious leaders were sent to labor camps. However, during the period of 1941-1959 there was actually a resurgence of Russian Orthodox Christianity in the Soviet Union cited. Now, this is purely conjecture, but could it be that Stalin persecuted said religious officials because he believed they undermined his power, or because of their religious? A. Vogel 17:48, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
A. Vogel, did Stalin ease up on the church because he was a nice guy or because he needed their help in fighting the war? Lastly, you are free to speculate, but please fully support your speculations especially in the light of the Lenin quote cited in the Conservapedia atheism article. conservative 17:51, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
Edited previous post. conservative 17:52, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
A. Vogel, I many be wrong, but it seems like you deliberately dodged my last question. Did Stalin kill religious leaders? conservative 17:56, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
My apologies, I had no intention of dodging the question. The answer is simple: Yes, he did. I fully accept the fact that he persecuted religion and religious leaders to no end, and I think he was a terrible man for it - what I am questioning is the fact that they were his only target. He also persecuted many non-religious leaders, ie, political enemies. A prominent example would be Leon Trotsky. My point is, his massacre cannot be purely blamed on atheism. A. Vogel 18:02, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
I realise I'm late to the discussion, but I would just like to add the Hitler was a vegetarian and killed millions of meat-eaters. I'm reasonably confident that this had nothing to do with the fact they ate meat, and I think the same logic can be applied to the argument here. User:Soup 03:25, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

You do, Soup? Sorry, no soup for you. Bye. --ṬK/Admin/Talk 23:03, 1 May 2010 (EDT)
A. Vogel, Here are some books that were recommended for further reading in the Conservapedia atheism article:

Atheism and History:

  • Dimitry Pospielovsky, (December, 1987), A History of Marxist-Leninist Atheism and Soviet Antireligious Policies, Palgrave Macmillan, ISBN 0312381328
  • Dimitry Pospielovsky, (November, 1987), Soviet Antireligious Campaigns and Persecutions (History of Soviet Atheism in Theory and Practice and the Believers, Vol 2), Palgrave Macmillan, ISBN 0312009054
  • Dimitry Pospielovsky, (August, 1988), Soviet Studies on the Church and the Believer's Response to Atheism: A History of Soviet Atheism in Theory and Practice and the Believers, Vol 3, Palgrave Macmillan, hardcover: ISBN 0312012918, paperback edition: ISBN 0312012926 conservative 18:03, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
Thank you very much! I will surely have a look at these as soon as I can. I appreciate your replies. A. Vogel 18:06, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
No problem. There is something you said about history and I do not know if it is correct or incorrect. You wrote: "whereas during the Crusades people were killed for not being Christian." The Spanish Inquisition by the Roman Catholic church involved the issue of being killed due to the issue of whether someone was a Roman Catholic and also involved torture to try to force people to hold a Roman Catholic position. However, if I am not mistaken and I certainly maybe on this point, I think the crusades mainly involved the issue of who controlled Jerusalem. Although I may be wrong on this point, I think it mainly was a land dispute and "power game" between Roman Catholics and Muslims on who was going to control Jerusalem which they both considered significant due to its historical past and what they claimed was historical (I am not a Muslim either so I do not hold the Muslim position of what allegedly occurred there). As a Protestant of course, I think the Spanish Inquisition and crusades were based on bad theology and immoral. I am going to be away for the rest of the month for the most part, so I am afraid I cannot continue this discussion until April. conservative 21:45, 24 March 2010 (EDT)

Coming Conservapedia atheism article new content

I have come across some additional information plus I am going to research some additional areas. I am expecting to add some additional content to the Conservapedia anti-atheism article sometime in the near future. There are so many fallacious arguments that atheists use and so many egregious behaviors they engage in that there is certainly an opportunity to expand on the anti-atheism content offered at Conservapedia either in the main article or through additional articles. conservative 15:18, 8 April 2010 (EDT)

additional source causes of atheism plus source of new quotes

additional source causes of atheism plus source of new quotes: http://www.christianpost.com/article/20100318/christian-philosopher-explores-causes-of-atheism/index.html conservative 05:57, 11 April 2010 (EDT)

Arguments Against Atheism

Shouldn't we have an example of an ontological argument, rather than just a definition? Otherwise it does not flow with the rest.

Edit: I meant against Atheism.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Prium (talk)
Do you know of any beyond "I don't see any evidence (as I narrowly define it) of God" (the most common argument), "God is a big meanie!" (Dawkins' argument) and "Christians are dumb, so there!" (PZ Myers' argument)? Jinx McHue 10:23, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

Richard Dawkings on leaders (religious and non-religious)

"I think that is missing the point, that's just simply appalling people in the world, from Henry VIII and Genghis Khan, to Hitler and Stalin, some of them were religious and some of them were not. I don't think that we should tote up the number of wicked people who have been religious and the number that haven't. The question is does religious faith, blind faith in the absence of evidence, predispose you to do evil things that you wouldn't otherwise do?"

List of Atheists

Should we add a list of current and past notable atheists and create pages about some, if we don't already have them? Perhaps it should be a separate article entirely, as I can imagine it being quite long.