Difference between revisions of "Talk:Barack Hussein Obama"

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(Education In Jakarta, Indonesia)
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===Another===
 
===Another===
 
[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=506483&oldid=505653 This link] should be commented out until [[Essay: The Special Interests Candidate| this abysmal essay]] is fixed. [[User talk:MargeryCampbell|Marge]] 17:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
 
[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=506483&oldid=505653 This link] should be commented out until [[Essay: The Special Interests Candidate| this abysmal essay]] is fixed. [[User talk:MargeryCampbell|Marge]] 17:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
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==Pearl Harbor issue==
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The entire section regarding his comments about Pearl Harbor has got to go. There is no reason to imply that someone leaving an 's' off the word 'bomb' (''bomb'''s''''' did fall on Pearl Harbor, that much is true, right?) means they ignore or disdain American history. I'm guessing the McCain article makes no immediate mention of his confusion over the borders of Iran, or his lack of knowledge about the situation in Iraq, illustrated by the fact that he mixed up the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. Do either of those things make sense? NO! I'm sure John McCain knows what he's talking about, and I'm sure he's not confused about the issues at hand. Obviously, which course of action he chooses to follow is eternally and rightly up for debate, and if we want to highlight that debate about Obama, then that's fine. But it's ridiculous - nay, ridicule-worthy - to say that Obama leaving out an 's' means he thinks Pearl Harbor was nuked. That's so stupid it turns neurons into Pop Rocks. [[User:OtherSide|OtherSide]] 19:51, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Revision as of 23:51, August 31, 2008

Archives: 1 2 3

No longer presumptive

He's the real-deal nominee at this point. Athuroglossos 13:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

He's presumptive in the sense that Obama is far too inexperienced to be President. Redstatepride 18:56, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Education In Jakarta, Indonesia

All students in Indonesia, regardless of religion get off for Islamic holy days including Nabi Isa which we know as Christmas. It's disengenuous to make a claim that because he went to a public school and got an Islamic holy day off that there's some nefarious connection. Muslims that attend Catholic school have to attend Mass whether they like it or not.--EmpressG1973 17:01, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

I think the point is that Barack Hussein Obama was observing an islamic holy day when he is claiming to be Christian. It just does'nt add up to alot of people and should make Christians think twice about him. --Patriot1505

Reversion Explained

We don't post a politician's self-serving claptrap. Obama catered to anti-patriotic donors to win the nomination. There's no real dispute about that.--Aschlafly 09:53, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

Remember, Conservapedia is billed as trustworthy, and children read this website. Yesaliberal 15:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
What's your point? That children don't need to know he flip flopped on wearing a flag pin? TJason 15:39, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
The point is that children especially should be told the truth. Include the flip-flopping by all means, but also include his explanation for why he did flip-flop. This has more validity then stating "but later stopped wearing it without adequate explanation." Adequate to whom? By what criteria is the inadequacy judged? If he had explained it by saying "it's none of your business", or did not offer an explanation, then certainly that would qualify as "without adequate explanation." Remember: Conservapedia is billed as trustworthy. Yesaliberal 15:56, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
I agree that citing his explanation and then explaining why conservatives find it inadequate would be an improvement. I would make said improvement, but I am currently hard "at work". TJason 16:09, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

Affirmative Action President

I reverted the removal of "affirmative action president" for now. Corey, can you explain why this is racist? If affirmative action isn't racist, why is describing someone as an "affirmative action president" racist? Is your problem with the description that it is racist? Or that it is untrue? I think these are two separate issues. TJason 10:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

This speaks to what I think is an enormous problem with affirmative action (no, I'm not a complete supporter), claiming that a minority only got a job because they are a minority. I think that claiming that Barack Obama's political success comes only from his being black is racist demagoguery, or at least rhetoric designed to incite racial tensions. I have no doubt that there are some people who support Obama only because of the color of his skin, just the same as there are those who oppose him only for the same reason. Also, I will not say that there isn't a desire by many people to see somebody other than white male in the White House. But this is not the only reason most of Obama's supporters have for supporting him, as the term "affirmative action president" suggests. He has political experience and he is a deft politician, which figures greatly in a political campaign. I would implore anybody who considers Obama to have no accomplishments to compare his life to that of our sitting president before 2000. Some time in office, a string of business failures, and questionable service in the Texas Air National Guard. Fortunately for G.W. Bush, his father is Bush 41. Bush supporters discuss his successes as his own doing. Claiming that Obama's are not his own because he is black sounds rather racist to me. Corry 11:16, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
George W. Bush was governor of Texas; some people consider that to be a political accomplishment. I think you will have to go pretty far back to find a candidate for President whose entire political career was two years as a Senator. In 1988 Dan Quayle was blasted for his lack of experience for a Vice Presidential candidate, and he had already served many more years in the Congress than Barack Obama has. Like it or not Obama was fasttracked and bypassed the usual protocols because of the color of his skin. Whether or not this is appropriate is left to each individual to decide. Learn together 11:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
A governorship is certainly a political accomplishment, one which George W. Bush would probably have been unable to attain were it not for his father's name. There is hardly any information on the George W. Bush entry on this site pertaining to his life before his presidency, the details of which would likely lead many people to conclude that were George H.W. Bush not so well-connected his son would not be president. In contrast, the opening paragraph of Obama's entry uses his race to attack him politically. I find this hard to rationalize. Corry 12:04, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
There is not usually an understood litmus test for governor. Some people are longterm politicians, others are not. For instance Arnold held only minor political appointments before he became governor of California. But the Presidency has generally required proving yourself in some capacity. Bush was a well respected governor who received high marks. Carter, Clinton, and Reagan had all been governors. Someone running for President who has not successfully governed a state and has only been in Congress for 2 years is very out of the ordinary. Again, note what Quayle was put through and he was only a Vice Presidential candidate. That being said, I am not necessarily supporting the article in the form it has taken. I have not read it in quite some time, but if it is a leadoff then that would seem to be inappropriate. Learn together 12:47, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
Obama's experience is fair game, and I agree that he has not had as much time in political office as the average candidate. I think that using race as an issue detracts from this fair and logical line of debate. Corry 12:53, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
I don't think that the term "affirmative action president" suggests that affirmative action is the only reason Obama is where he is. I think the term is supposed to denote that his being black is a major force behind his success. Also, I think the term brings to light that, historically, this is a first. No previous nominee has been the beneficiary of affirmative action in the way Obama has. At any rate, I won't revert the edit if you remove it again, since you've made your case and I am not willing to fight to keep it in. I suspect others might, though. TJason 11:37, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
Where has he explicitly benefited from affirmative action programs? This is a "heads, I win, tails, you lose" situation. If he doesn't get into Harvard Law or win an election, it's because of lack of merit. If he succeeds, it's because the standards were lowered due to his race. This is an extremely dubious political argument. Attack him on his policies, voting record, character, or fitness to lead: fire as they bear! That's our process, and it's a good process. But these race arguments are petty, desperate, and drag our political discourse down to a despicable level. Corry 12:04, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
I am pretty sure that Harvard Law Review has an affirmative action policy, but I will have to check. Regardless, I think the term also covers "implicit" affirmative action that has benefited Obama (e.g. a white candidate with his experience would not be taken seriously). TJason 12:10, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
"Implicit" affirmative action seems to be in the realm of vagueness and speculation. I refer you to Conservapedia Commandment 1: "Everything you post must be true and verifiable." Corry 12:25, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
Like I said, I'm not really willing to fight over this. We are at least in agreement that this is a distraction from the real issue: his actual positions. I reverted the edit because I thought what was said in the edit comment should have been spelled out in the talk page. It has been. Therefore, if you want to remove the reference again, I won't revert it again.TJason 12:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
I have no intention of perpetuating a pointless revert war, either, and I agree that discussion of the real issues suffer because of such statements. Corry 12:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

"Alleged" birth revert

Even the National Review doesn't dispute the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate. Why is Obama's birth information being censored by this website? Corry 12:30, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

There is no censorship here. Removing any mention that there is doubt about the authenticity of his birth certificate is censorship, imho. TJason 12:34, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
However, the way rumor is so prominently injected into the article within the first five words is clear weasel-wording. A separate section regarding the issue would be more appropriate than saying that he was "allegedly" born somewhere, and I wouldn't oppose such a section. Seeing as how you usually hear the word "allegedly" on the news while watching a video of a perp walk, it is unnecessarily loaded language. Corry 12:42, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
And accusing senior CP members of "weasel-wording" isn't loaded? You should watch your step. Bugler 12:46, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
We know many liberals love deceit, and the birth certificate posted by Obama's campaign has obvious defects. Even its number is blotted out for unexplained reasons. There are still unanswered questions about his place and date of birth, and what is on his real certificate, which his campaign has not released. We provide the information about this and let the reader decide.--Aschlafly 13:12, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
Then maybe the thing to do would be to dedicate a separate section to present the issue. It would be much clearer and provide more information than the status quo. Corry 14:16, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
I have reverted another removal of the word "alleged" since there are still unanswered questions about his birth certificate. Is the consensus that this should be made into a new section? TJason 17:18, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
I would agree with a section. This entire article could do with a better layout and more sectioning. Our John McCain article is better in this regard - perhaps we could use this as a blueprint? DefenderofTrue 17:38, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) We seem to be in agreement. I'll make a section tomorrow, under the "Published Criticism" section. I would like to add that I love it when people of different viewpoints can meet in the middle. Good night. Corry 23:44, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

I like the changes you have made. TJason 11:37, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
(edit conflict) Thank you. As discussed, I added a section regarding the birth certificate controversy and removed "alleged" from the intro paragraph. I tried to make it as evenly written as I could. Corry 11:40, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
Also, what is up with the tag at the beginning of the article? I don't know what this is used for, but it doesn't appear to be doing anything except make "span" the first word in the article. TJason 11:44, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
1. You're right- I scanned the diff and thought he removed the Daily Kos ref. 2. I don't know. I never noticed it before. Corry 11:46, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

We have a problem

Okay... to start things off I am deathly afraid of this man getting elected and think he would ruin our wonderful nation. I do think that the media is helping him and realize that he is basically "the chosen one." My conservative principles help me make all of those opinions. Heres the thing. This place exists because someone thought that wikipedia was biased and unfair... but honestly... some of this stuff borders on propaganda! For Pete's sake our job as conservatives is too tell the truth and expose things about him. This page is going too far. I'm embarrassed to know that my fellow conservatives wrote this! This page can still be dedicated to exposing the truth about "the chosen one." But we'll be SO much more effective if we do it properly and fairly. If you want to contact me its easier to do so at my wikipedia talk page of the same name. Thank you and lets try to do better please. Saksjn 15:32, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

Hussein Obama's Birth Certificate Number

I copied this from the Main Page Talk section to here because you all might find it of interest. --AdmiralNelson 11:32, 23 August 2008 (EDT)


Look at this photo, is this Barack Obama's birth certificate? Visitor 23:44, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
It's interesting that they finally give the, so-called authentic, birth certificate number in this supposedly unfaked photo. It is 151 1961 - 010641. The reason I bring this up, and I think the REAL reason this was masked, is because numerological analysis shows something very disturbing. If you add up the three sets of digits thus:
151 + 1961 + 010641 = 12753
and then add the individual digits of the result thus:
1 + 2 + 7 + 5 + 3 = 18
the final result, 18, is the product of three sixes (3 x 6 = 18). Three sixes, or 666, sort of speaks for itself. I just thought this was interesting. --AdmiralNelson 11:22, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

I think it's rather obvious that AdmiralNelson doesn't take this site seriously. Jirby 20:51, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Does anyone? Visitor 21:05, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
I'm giving it a chance. Jirby 21:14, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
So am I. I new here and was hoping to find stuff that would challenge my beliefs, so far not much luck. Visitor 21:21, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
Can I quote myself? I just thought this was interesting. For "seriousness" I stand by my record. Feel free to check it out. --AdmiralNelson 11:29, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

Lawsuit

The guy filing the lawsuit doesn't dispute the fact that he he was born in Honolulu. He is disputing that Obama is a US citizen after he lived in Indonesia. So why does it say allegedly born still? Visitor 19:08, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

I think he does dispute it.--Aschlafly 10:46, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

Dilution

Don't dilute the entry by referring to the silly text messaging stunt in the first paragraph.--Aschlafly 10:46, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

Can I put it down in the Presidential Campaign section instead then? --Jareddr 10:49, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

Requested change

Original text:

On June 3rd, Barack Obama had received enough pledged delegates and the endorsement of superdelegates to be called the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party by the Democratic National Committee. The nomination became official when Hillary Clinton conceded on June 7th.

Requested new text:

Obama became the presumptive Democratic nominee on June 3rd after receiving a majority of pledged delegates and superdelegates. His only remaining primary opponent, Hillary Clinton, conceded the race on June 7th. On August 23, Joe Biden was announced as Obama's vice-presidential nominee. Obama became the official Democratic nominee on August 27 at the Democratic National Convention, when Hillary Clinton's motion to end the roll call vote of the states and select Obama by acclamation was passed.

This more accurately describes what happened and updates the section with last week's events. --Ampersand 17:02, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Another

This link should be commented out until this abysmal essay is fixed. Marge 17:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Pearl Harbor issue

The entire section regarding his comments about Pearl Harbor has got to go. There is no reason to imply that someone leaving an 's' off the word 'bomb' (bombs did fall on Pearl Harbor, that much is true, right?) means they ignore or disdain American history. I'm guessing the McCain article makes no immediate mention of his confusion over the borders of Iran, or his lack of knowledge about the situation in Iraq, illustrated by the fact that he mixed up the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. Do either of those things make sense? NO! I'm sure John McCain knows what he's talking about, and I'm sure he's not confused about the issues at hand. Obviously, which course of action he chooses to follow is eternally and rightly up for debate, and if we want to highlight that debate about Obama, then that's fine. But it's ridiculous - nay, ridicule-worthy - to say that Obama leaving out an 's' means he thinks Pearl Harbor was nuked. That's so stupid it turns neurons into Pop Rocks. OtherSide 19:51, 31 August 2008 (EDT)