Difference between revisions of "Talk:Coronavirus"

Revision as of 17:48, January 8, 2021

Chinese experts who reported to the WHO claim the illness is spreading so fast that not enough technicians are trained or facilities exist to test for the disease. Further, only the most sick who report to emergency rooms are tested and treated first. Because of the incubation period, people without symptoms have to wait in ER waiting rooms. Healthy people showing up for testing then may become infected.

Because of the seriousness of this issue, I suggest avoiding (1) inserting panic type wording in the article, and (2) avoiding conspiratorial langauge of its origins (although it may in fact be a bio-weapon). Experts suggested (a) it has the potential of becoming a global epidemic, requiring (b) "draconian" restrictions on population movements. Educating readers on basic facts is crucial at this point; discussion on a "travel ban" will fall into place by its own in coming weeks and months without pushing a political agenda. Those who have opposed "travel bans" in the recent past will be left to hang out to dry without our help.

For now, lets concentrate on what the holy "scientists" and "experts" are saying. If it continues doubling every 6 days without public health intervention, my estimate is 7 million infections in 3-4 months. This is potentially as big a life changing event as 9/11 was, RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 03:21, 27 January 2020 (EST)

With a fatality rate of 3-5% of 7 million infections, that would 225,000 to 380,000 deaths in four or five months. The Guardian reports today there may already be 100,000 infections rather than the 3000 reported. We are on the verge of a real panic here unless we get a handle on facts quickly. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 15:34, 27 January 2020 (EST)

Looks like these projections were not far off. [1] RobS^{Live Free or Die} 00:04, 8 June 2020 (EDT)

'Unclean' animals

Firstly, this is extremely problematic, to focus on the Biblical notion of 'unclean' as it ignores Acts 10.

Secondly, dooes the writer of this article advocate *not*, for example, eating pigs and shellfish?

In all honesty guy, does anyone in their right mind want to sit at a table and eat a bowl of soup with a dead bat in it?[2]

User: Conervative's response

East Asian atheists have live cats and exotic animals in cages in their food markets, which medical authorities believe likely caused the Wuhan coronavirus[3]. Modern, medical authorities in China are now using the Mosaic principle of quarantine to help contain the epidemic.[4] See: The Bible and health

If the Chinese, atheist leaders instituted better quality control in terms of a food delivery system instead of having a barbaric and cruel cat slaughtering industry, perhaps this epidemic may have never happened. See: Cat slaughtering practices in China and Dietary practices of atheists

China, which has the largest atheist population in the world, is now paying a tribute to Moses by having the largest quarantine in human history! See: China and atheism Conservative (talk) 12:22, 27 January 2020 (EST)

It may be a bio-weapon from Canada. It's too early to make any definitive conclusions on its origins. Because of the real imminent danger, the focus right now should be on informing the public on wcahat it is and preventative measures. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 15:23, 27 January 2020 (EST)

That camels are mentioned in the opening sentence of the article is.....a little odd. Some scientists have speculated that the disease jumped from a wild animal at a wet market, but that's about as specific as the published sources are willing to get. PeterKa (talk) 21:53, 30 January 2020 (EST)

Questionable Facts

This article needs work. Most of the assertions are made without the required references. Many are of dubious value. For instance, the claim, “There is no known treatment…” is false. The CDC lists treatments for the coronavirus. [5] The death claim, and the math associated with the claim, appear to be without merit. During the SARS-CoV outbreak in China, 2002, the death rate was 9.6% from 8098 probable cases. [6] --JLind (talk) 20:17, 28 January 2020 (EST)

Please, go ahead and expand. For unsourced claims add^{[Citation Needed]} or your references. Thanks. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 01:23, 29 January 2020 (EST)

The halls of the hospitals across China are crammed with coronavirus patients. And that's true not just in the cities that make the news, but in hundreds of other places as well. It was the same in 2003 with SARS. Eight thousand cases? That number has no relationship to reality. If the real infection rate is vastly higher than reported, that would suggest that the real death rate is lower than reported. PeterKa (talk) 22:14, 30 January 2020 (EST)

There will be 1000 dead by Sunday, 10,000 in two weeks, and one million in three weeks, according to the chart here. [7] This is "science"'s best estimates for a "novel virus" that nobody knows anything about. Of course, "science" right now is watching how fast people are dropping dead, as that is the only "research" they can do. Then, believe it or not, we have CNN, NYT, and WaPo to inform us of "facts" coming from the unquestionably reliable Communist government of China. Meanwhile, Medicare For All advocates lead Democrat polls, while the Chinese single payer system doesn't have trained technicians to test for the unknown virus, let alone enough masks or disposable hazmat uniforms for first respondents.

But don't panic, yet; impeaching Trump is still our first priority. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 23:08, 30 January 2020 (EST)

Coronavirus may ultimately prove to be the CCP's "Chernobyl". RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 00:23, 31 January 2020 (EST)

A puzzling sentence fragment:

• Prior to the government importing the virus from China into the United States.

Was this meant to blame a government, such as the U.S., for some deliberate or negligent act? I wish the text were a little more clear. (Could it mean allowing infected people to enter the country? --Ed Poor ^Talk 09:28, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

It's an Introduction to the next two citations (in reverse order):

• "Dr. William Walters, Executive Director and Managing Director for Operational Medicine for the Bureau of Medical Services at the U.S. Department of State, made the decision to bring the patients back to the US." [8]
• "President Trump was furious about the repatriation of confirmed infected cases without his authorization." [9]

It's an effort to get ahead of the inevitable blame game that fake news and NeverTrumpers will lay on Trump's doorstep (also known as 'spin narrative'). Now elsewhere we also mention the fact that 340,000 Chinese students are in the US, and that over 2300 flights left Wuhan environs during and after the Chinese New Year holidays, so that needs some tightening up to show that the US outbreak did not necessarily begin with the Repatriation of US citizens from China and the Crown Princess.

Ultimately, we'll lay the CCP virus or ChiCom Flu blame where it belongs. Here's two good cites in the past two days on that subject. [10] [11] RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 10:40, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

Snakes and alternative theories

Now that researchers have traced the virus to snakes, I would suggested cutting back on the "alternative theories." PeterKa (talk) 23:37, 31 January 2020 (EST)

The article says "might" come from snakes. More research may need to be done. Right now, they are probably focusing on coming up with a vaccine and slowing down the infection rate. I don't know how important it is in terms of coming up with a vaccine for scientists to know the exact animal type in terms of its origin.Conservative (talk) 00:17, 1 February 2020 (EST)

The Chinese are sharing information about the virus. I doubt they would do that if they were intent on creating some biological weapon. It is probably just conspiracy theory bunk. People come up with conspiracy theories sometimes when they don't want to take the time to think things through in terms of determining causes for things.Conservative (talk) 00:22, 1 February 2020 (EST)

If it stays, it's listed as a "bio-weapons theory", and stress on the theory part. And if it is indeed a bogus conspiracy theory - which I think it may be - stress that, too. Karajou (talk) 05:59, 1 February 2020 (EST)

Timestamp

• 4,846 views, up 2,600 from yesterday. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 14:44, 2 February 2020 (EST)

Methodolgy

When speaking about the number of reported infections, it should be qualified as "confirmed infections". RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 14:07, 6 February 2020 (EST)

Naming: It's a coronavirus, but not THE coronavirus

It might be a little late to point out a naming concern, but I don't know if this page should really be called "Coronavirus." A coronavirus is a type of virus which has "crown-like" tips. There are many strains of viruses, which are classified as "coronavirus."^[1] It would be better if we could try to be a bit more encyclopediac and professional about this, and use this strain's name, COVID19. The into to this article does a good job of pointing this out, but as you continue into the text, and especially as you look at Template:Coronavirus, you can see incorrect terminology. --DavidB4 ^(TALK) 17:59, 17 March 2020 (EDT)

I'd change the title it to Wuhan virus or Wuhan coronavirus. PeterKa (talk) 07:09, 18 March 2020 (EDT)

That would work--I'd be fine with that option. --DavidB4 ^(TALK) 18:15, 18 March 2020 (EDT)

I don't see an issue. The first words of the article are "Coronavirus is a family of several viruses", which makes the title accurate for this important page. If there is an issue, it is that there is no page specifically for COVID-19, which needs to be created. Progressingamerica (talk) 19:41, 18 March 2020 (EDT)

Good point. Coronavirus is the virus, COVID-19 is the disease caused by coronavirus. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 11:04, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

Eventually, we should separate coronavirus from THIS particular strain of coronavirus, but not just yet. This is a portal page to the current crisis.

When that is done eventually, it needs to be made absolutely clear in no uncertain terms - the term virus may be ambiguous or a misnomer. There certainly are two extremely different types of viruses in the modern world: (1) those that occur in nature; and (2) those engineered in a laboratory. So the thoughts conjured up by the term 'virus' itself in common usage and understanding are incorrect.

This is no way is 'conspiratorial' or quackery; in our modern world opium occurs in nature and opioids are engineered in labs. Which is responsible for 'the opioid epidemic' - God and nature, or science and laboratories? RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 10:57, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

My recommendation: Fill up the current mainspace with factual detail related to Coronavirus, both the hard scientific facts and the social/economic crisis. When that is outlined or complete, then we'll discuss renaming and spinoffs. Keep in mind this page is a Portal, and you don't want to create confusing or unnecessary forks at a time when there is high interest and traffic, RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 11:10, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

As to PeterKa's suggestion, "I'd change the title it to Wuhan virus or Wuhan coronavirus", Absolutely not. That plays into the ChiCom/DNC/fake news propaganda, branding Coonservapedia as "racist". It is suicide for anything we are trying to achieve. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 11:15, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

"Ebola" is named after a river in Africa. Then there is West Nile Virus and Ross River Fever. None of them are as racist as yellow fever. Don't let yourself be stampeded by irrational accusations of racism. PeterKa (talk) 03:52, 25 March 2020 (EDT)

You don't walk into the line of fire, either. You circle around and toss a hand grenade into the pill box. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 10:25, 25 March 2020 (EDT)

The G-7 foreign ministers are holding up a statement over this issue: G-7 failed to agree on statement after U.S. insisted on calling coronavirus outbreak 'Wuhan virus'." It seems that the Europeans see virus naming yet another way to make an anti-American gesture. PeterKa (talk) 01:13, 26 March 2020 (EDT)

Good. Let's see if the handgrenade Trump and Popmeao tossed in the G7 pillbox does any good. But the Euro G7 members aren't the main target; they're just commie fronts for the CCP. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 02:57, 26 March 2020 (EDT)

Exaggerated death numbers

Shouldn't there be a note about how the fatalities from the Coronavirus may have been exaggerated? I know Candace Owens pointed out that there were a few instances where the hospital workers simply listed a deceased version as being killed by Coronavirus due to their happening to have it on them, even when their time of death was most likely unrelated outside of that bit (eg, a baby being smothered by its mother, or someone who was in hospice before the coronavirus outbreak). Pokeria1 (talk) 08:29, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

Oh yes, but not necessarily in those terms, "maybe". The factual evidence for such needs to be laid out. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 11:56, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

The evidence was provided on Talk:Main Page. Please keep abreast of that page when updating information that appears in the news; it serves as a valuable digest. Here is a copy:

Inflated United States Wuhan virus death counts

"Well, Dr. Birx just said it. Anyone in U.S. who dies with Covid 19, regardless of what else may be wrong, is now being recorded as a Covid 19 death." —Brit Hume

VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 06:07, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

I'm not going to reprint the directive, but it says the federal government is aiming for 50% accuracy on Wuhan virus reports. The reason is to compensate health care providers with Wuhan virus payments in exchange for the loss of business they are suffering from people not wanting to get infected at their establishments. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 01:12, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

I suggest beginning a page on CCP virus in the United States, or some such title and add the speculative information there. For now, it coud go in CCP_global_pandemic#United_States as the information is more fully developed and rounded off into its own subheading. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 13:51, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

Shi Zhengli

This article has nothing about Shi Zhengli yet, although speculation is mounting that the virus might have escaped from her lab. Shi has authored so many papers on bat coronavirus that Scientific American has dubbed her "bat woman." That there was a lab in Wuhan specializing in this type of virus at the time of the outbreak might not be a coincidence. At least those are the lines along which Shi herself was thinking: "“I had never expected this kind of thing to happen in Wuhan, in central China.” Her studies had shown that the southern, subtropical areas of Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan have the greatest risk of coronaviruses jumping to humans from animals—particularly bats, a known reservoir for many viruses. If coronaviruses were the culprit, she remembers thinking, “could they have come from our lab?”"[12] Shi runs a civilian lab that publishes the results of its research, so I find it unlikely that this virus is some kind of genetically engineered bioweapon. You can get the conspiracy theory version of what happened from the Epoch Times while a debunking is here. PeterKa (talk) 22:37, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

Conspiracy theory? RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 22:51, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

Actually, it does have Shi Zhengli. "On January 23, 2020 the Wuhan virus exploded. While Wuhan announced the lockdown of the city, Dr. Shi Zhengli of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, who had isolated the bat virus, spliced it, and made it transmissible to humans, provided the official Chinese communist cover story that the virus arose in nature." RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 00:35, 14 April 2020 (EDT)

You want the article to state as a fact that Shi genetically engineered the Wuhan virus as a bioweapon? That's a step beyond what The Epoch Times is doing. Perhaps you should check out the article in Live Science that I linked to above. PeterKa (talk) 01:42, 14 April 2020 (EDT)

Read the Shi Zhengli article. All the evidence is there: "If the new virus escaped, nobody could predict the trajectory. Propagation could happen anywhere." RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 02:01, 14 April 2020 (EDT)

The article you linked to has nothing to do with Shi or Wuhan. It is about a study in North Carolina that was done back in 2015. The Wuhan lab sent out grad students to collect blood samples from bats in southern China and isolated the coronaviruses. One these virus might have escaped from the lab. Or at least that's Shi's explanation of what happened. The scientists at her lab understood that the new virus could be was likely to be a SARS-like global pandemic back in December. That's a big admission on her part and does not conform to the party line. In any case, a first hand account is always valuable. PeterKa (talk) 02:37, 14 April 2020 (EDT)

Watch the whole video from The Epoch Times, 1st documentary movie on the origin of CCP virus, Tracking Down the Origin of the Wuhan Coronavirus with 1.46 million views in 6 days, all 55 minutes, and then we'll talk. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 03:45, 14 April 2020 (EDT)

The scientific community seems to be pretty convinced that this virus could not have been genetically engineered. Here is a full-length multi-author research paper in Nature, one of the most prestigious journals: "However, since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible." PeterKa (talk) 17:52, 15 April 2020 (EDT)

Oh. Ok. Who's that, some WHO experts? RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 18:57, 15 April 2020 (EDT)

Me personally, I'll implement screening for scientific experts; if they test negative for communist or leftwing ideology, and demonstrate allegiance to a spiritual higher power other than science, I'll deem them credible enough to pay attention to. But given the record - scientists gave us the nightmare of nuclear weapons and now this, a sentence or two of scientific gobbledgook is meaningless in this situation. Send all all your scientific experts back to the drawing board and have them come up with something meaningful and useful. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 19:03, 15 April 2020 (EDT)

This story has risen up the foodchain to Fox News. PeterKa (talk) 20:23, 15 April 2020 (EDT)

Bottomline: In the 4 billion year history of the human species, it's just not credible to allege that bat coronavirus was never transmissible to humans until 4 years after Scientific American credited Shi Zhengli with the honorary title of Batwoman for isolating the virus and engineering a patch to make it transmissible to humans. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 23:32, 15 April 2020 (EDT)

SARS and MERS are also bat coronaviruses that transmitted to humans.[13] PeterKa (talk) 23:46, 15 April 2020 (EDT)

Bingo. That's when Shi Zhengli and the Chinese military took interest in this particular virus. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 23:54, 15 April 2020 (EDT)

Ann Coulter

Ann Coulter is calling the claim that covid-19 originated in a Wuhan lab a "conspiracy theory."[14] She blames bat-eating and "primitive Chinese customs." Of course, it's not really about bat eating. The disease didn't go directly from bats to humans. It must have gone through a third animal, possibly a pangolin. Pangolins are anteaters from Africa. They are brought to China illegally for wealthy people who like exotic meats. Perhaps the virus started with a horseshoe bat in Yunnan. Eating wild animals is associated with Guangzhou and the Cantonese (near Hong Kong). Various writers have interviewed dozens of people familiar with the Huanan Market. The market was selling camels, koalas, crocodiles, and peacocks.[15] But there are no reports of bats or pangolins. PeterKa (talk) 00:47, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

Shutting down wet markets is an issue related to the WHO. Coulter appears to be angling for an appearance on CNN where she can spew more CCP propaganda. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 01:00, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

And Chinese wet markets aren't going away anytime soon, given the Global Depression China put the world in. It's not surprising; Chinese progressive communists, inside and outside government, who got rich since China's WTO admission and U.S. MFN status, refused to "share the wealth" with the poor, the oppressed, the down trodden, and even the ordinary people of China. Instead, Chinese progressive communists used their wealth to expand greater mass surveillance technology, build gulags, and assert control over the people. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 01:05, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

Chinese wet markets are not the problem. It is wildlife animal sales (live wild animal sales) at wet markets that is the problem. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54 Conservative (talk) 02:47, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

I watched the video. It is quite interesting. It shows that eating wild animals isn't a primitive Chinese custom, contrary to Coulter. It is a modern form of conspicuous consumption by the nouveau riche. PeterKa (talk) 07:49, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

The problem here again is, from the opening line of the video, "It was News Years Eve and health official in China admitted they had a problem...." -- not true. It was health officials in Taiwan that contacted the WHO on News Year Eve and told them Covid 19 was transmissible between humans. The WHO claims "China" contacted them, and two weeks later said Chinese officials said it was not transmissible. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 10:49, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

Once again, you're ignoring the simple fact that bats were not sold in the Wuhan wet market. Unfortunately, both of you are furthering Communist Chinese propaganda by discussing wet markets in this context at this moment in time. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 10:59, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

Let's go one step further: for months the term "Wuhan Seafood Market" was used, to describe a wet market in an inland city where seafood is rare. Seafood, with a very limited shelf life, would have to be trucked in from the coast. CCP propaganda takes advantage of the cultural ignorance Westerners have of China.

These simple facts attest to the gullibility of Westerners, and effectiveness of CCP propaganda - (1) no one is questioning the assertion that China contacted the WHO on New Years Eve; (2) no one reports the fact Taiwan told the WHO the virus is transmissible, whereas the WHO accredits China as saying it wasn't transmissible 14 days later; (3) no one bothered to correct the fact that a "Seafood" market did not exist in Wuhan; (4) no one reported the evidence from Chinese student researchers, in support of the "conspiracy theorists" at The Lancet, that bats were not sold at the Wuhan wet market (misreported as "Seafood" market} nor did the virus arise in the market.

I for one sympathize with Western reactions; nothing is more frustrating than to have an enormous body of research forcibly thrust upon you that disrupts what you'd rather be doing. The mind looks for shortcuts and rationalizations to digest conflicting and confusing bits of information. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 11:26, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

In reviewing all the evidence, I would suggest the mis-translation of "wet market" to "seafood market" originates with Google translators. It was suspect from the beginning: How could a seafood market exist in an inland city where lakes and rivers are too polluted to provide a food source for the city, and the residents who eat live animals are too poor to pay the freight of luxury food items trucked in from the coast? But the brilliant geniuses at Google Translate, along with the brilliant geniuses in mainstream media are just plainly too stupid to question their own common sense. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 11:41, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

According to the Wuhan Evening News, the city buys 1.3-1.5 billion yuan ($210 million) worth of seafood a year. The Huanan Market is the "largest seafood and aquatic products wholesale trading market in central China." So, yes, it really is a seafood market. In Chinese, the name is 武汉华南海鲜批发市场/Wǔhàn huánán hǎixiān pīfā shìchǎng. This translates as "Wuhan South China Seafood Wholesale Market." (The article recommends that you eat more seafood as a cure for gout. This is such a stereotype-confirming touch that I had to mention it.)

Every theory that's been floated concerning the origin of the covid-19 pandemic has been convincingly debunked. It wasn't the Huanan Market. It wasn't Shi Zhengli's lab. It wasn't genetic engineering. It wasn't pangolins, etc. The virus developed in a bat in a cave in rural Yunnan in the far south. Then, for no obvious reason, it begin infecting humans near a bat coronavirus research lab in central China. Bats and humans don't interact much and disease rarely passes between them, at least not directly. The bat caves of Yunnan are 800 miles from Wuhan. Yet that's the story as it stands. PeterKa (talk) 06:23, 17 April 2020 (EDT)

Oh. So you're quoting a Communist-controlled media entity to establish facts. You should get job with CNN. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 11:38, 18 April 2020 (EDT)

Let me introduce one more theory that your friends at Google and Microsoft have been censoring: some medical scientists are not even certain 2019-nCoV is even a virus, making all assumptions about the pathology of viruses moot. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 11:43, 18 April 2020 (EDT)

Unit 731

Read this article [16]

Unit 731 ... was a covert biological and chemical warfare research and development unit of the Imperial Japanese Army that undertook lethal human experimentation during the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945) of World War II. It was responsible for some of the most notorious war crimes carried out by Imperial Japan....Unit 731 and its affiliated units (Unit 1644 and Unit 100 among others) were involved in research, development and experimental deployment of epidemic-creating biowarfare weapons in assaults against the Chinese populace (both civilian and military) throughout World War II..

What is the point of mentioning this? Active biological warfare was conducted against the Chinese population from 1937-1945; in 1949 when the Communist Party came to power, based on their experience, biological warfare was considered an accepted part of modern warfare and incorporated into Chinese Communist military doctrine. China has no tradition of "forgive and forget," and communism is based on the doctrine of scientific progress. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 12:01, 18 April 2020 (EDT)

Wuhan Center for Disease Control

While the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the internationally-connected level 4 lab that Shi Zhengli works at, gets all the attention, there is another lab closer to the Huanan Market that also has bat coronavirus: "China Coronavirus : Wuhan Center for Disease Control (WHCDC) Laboratory: Research Facility A Mere 300 Yards from Wuhan Wet Fish Market." This lab "kept disease-ridden animals in laboratories, including 605 bats."
I assume the reason the U.S. and France helped with the upgrade of WIV was the hope that China would move it's dangerous research to that lab. But it seems that things didn't work out that way. PeterKa (talk) 10:47, 18 April 2020 (EDT)

There's much to be investigated here; the Wuhan CDC was a local or provincial entity, while the virology lab was a national or national party-level controlled entity. Also, it appears there may have been some overlap in staffing, personnel, and sharing of facilities between the two. By the time any sort of outside or internal investigation can ever establish and make public any facts, the CCP (should it still exist by then) will have restructured its organization. Reports already claim the Chinese military has taken direct control of the virology lab after the outbreak, and as alluded to earlier, there is overlap between national party-level controlled institutions and local level entities. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 11:35, 18 April 2020 (EDT)

Costa Rica

Spain, Italy, and now Costa Rica all seem to be able to prescribe HCQ without suffering a constitutional crisis: "Hydroxychloroquine: The Drug Costa Rica Uses Successfully To Fight Covid-19." The Costa Ricans steer clear of azithromycin because of cardiac issues. PeterKa (talk) 03:00, 20 May 2020 (EDT)

Covid-19 compared to seasonal flu

If you leave out the old age homes of New York City, mismanaged by Governor Cuomo, covid-19 was a seasonal flu. See "Coronavirus hype biggest political hoax in history." The mortality rate is between 0.1 percent and 0.2 percent compared to 0.1 percent for the flu, according to this article. It occurs to me that this makes theories about lab leaks and bioweapons a lot less likely. The virus could have circulated in backwater China without anyone noticing for quiet some time. The outbreak was more about mass hysteria than pandemic, a modern version of the dancing plague of 1518. PeterKa (talk) 21:11, 7 June 2020 (EDT)

Nobody's buying the wet market theory cause the CCP isn't even pitching it anymore. RobS^{Live Free or Die} 21:19, 7 June 2020 (EDT)

Perhaps some villager in Yunnan got infected at the secret coronavirus bat cave: "Cave full of bats in China identified as source of virus almost identical to the one killing hundreds today." The cave is 900 miles from Wuhan. But if the disease has a low mortality, it could have circulated for a while before anyone noticed. PeterKa (talk) 22:22, 7 June 2020 (EDT)

The consensus seems pretty strong - it came from a lab. To avoid sanctions at this point the CCP must allow outside inspectors in. Not that it would do any good since the PLA has taken over the lab and has plenty of time to scrub the location. It's too late.

De-coupling relations will take awhile. The D10 organization is already being formed which is the G7 + India, South Korea, and Australia. Air travel is cancelled. Next will be cancelling student exchange programs - the D10 nations will not be training any more microbiologists for the PLA. Businesses need more time to withdraw, but the government of Japan is already granting taxbreaks to companies to withdraw. Other D10 countries probably will follow this model.

Then there's the Global Magnitsky Act - John McCain's legacy. This means once all D-10 nations severe commercial relations (over the next two years roughly), smaller economies outside the D10 likewise may face sanctions from all D10 countries if they continue trade with the CCP.

The big question is, can the CCP survive this upheaval internally? Make no mistake, none of this is happening cause of a dispute or misunderstanding over whether the virus came from a wet market or not. If it did, the CCP would have shown evidence to contradict the evidence of lab origins by now.

The CCP right now is biding its time and pulling out the stops in hopes to defeat Trump; but if Trump wins, and Xi overcomes internal challenges on policy, they have to decide on escalating the dispute to blackmail their way back into the global trading system with either a bio or conventional attack. (The blackmail strategy is almost certain with a Trump defeat).

We got 40 million unemployed, but except for the Democrats and violent revolution, there is hope for a comeback; China by contrast has way more than 40 million now more or less permanently unemployed, unless young people begin returning from the cities to farm villages and rice paddies to eat. RobS^{Live Free or Die} 23:04, 7 June 2020 (EDT)

As to wet market claims, the evidence is the same as how the FBI got a FISA warrant against Carter Page; the FBI leaked BS to Yahoo News about Page, than cut and pasted the Yahoo News article into a FISA warrant claiming it was independent corroborative evidence. CCP did the same thing - fed world media BS talking points which remains the only evidence of wet market origins - contradicted by independent lab investigations outside of China. It's just not worth inflaming world public opinion and starting WWIII over. A phased de-coupling is in order, while being ever alert to more Chinese hostile deception. RobS^{Live Free or Die} 23:25, 7 June 2020 (EDT)

Covid-19 is not a synonym to the virus

I may be a parodist, but the following real error exists in the definition:

" Covid-19 or the Wuhan coronavirus as CNN refers to it,"

Covid-19 is the name of the disease casue by the virus, but not of the virus itself. As is AIDS to HIV - AIDS is the disease, HIV is the virus that causes it.

YOu may ban me now, but please fix this. Look it up if you don't believe me. --Greg Jones (talk) 14:16, 22 September 2020 (EDT)

No sh** Sherlock. And what do you know about Covid and/or coronavirus from CNN? RobS^{Free Kyle!}

And why split hairs? Since racism is a characteristic of all Democrats, and all Democrats are racists, and fascism is a characteristic of liberalism and all liberals are fascists, why can't they be used interchangeably? RobS^{Free Kyle!} 14:27, 22 September 2020 (EDT)